RE-BRAND DRAMA: Cracker Barrel Rebrand, Consumer Psychology, Audience Testing (Ep. 009)

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Update: Since filming this episode, Cracker Barrel has decided to revert back to it’s original logo.

What happens when a heritage brand strips away its soul? The Cracker Barrel rebrand sparks outrage, proving why listening to your audience is the ultimate marketing play.

What You’ll Learn:

• Why rebrands flop when businesses ignore nostalgia and audience identity
• How to test brand messaging before launching a risky change
• The simple, no-funnel strategy for creators to grow with just one core offer

Timestamps:

 04:15 – The Cracker Barrel controversy explained
 07:45 – Why audiences revolt when nostalgia gets erased
 13:20 – Politics, branding, and why context matters more than ever
 18:45 – The power of audience testing in avoiding PR disasters
 30:10 – The curse of “new shiny ideas” vs. doubling down on what works
 43:30 – The bare minimum you actually need to launch a digital offer

References & Resources:

• Cracker Barrel
• Bud Light backlash
• Poppy (acquired by Pepsi)
• Malcolm Gladwell, The Tipping Point
• Jonah Berger, Contagious
• BossBabe

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📱 Social: @themichellepualani | @joanna_atwork
📩 Michelle: hello@michellepualani.com
🌐 Joanna: millennialmktr.com

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Transcript

009 

Michelle Pualani (2): [00:00:00] Hello and welcome back to the Click Tease podcast, where we give you weekly updates on personal branding, online business, and content creation that converts.

Today we're talking about the controversy over the Cracker Barrel brand and business. Update how you can learn to listen to your audience, really tap into your ideal client persona, and then use and leverage that feedback so you can properly message your brand and business. We talk a little bit about testing and how to leverage the consumer psychology that it takes in order for people to share your content, get your brand and business out there, and purchase your offers.

And we close with a conversation about the simplicity of what it takes to actually have a successful online. Business because you don't need to overcomplicate. Hi, I'm Michelle Pulani, founder of To Be Honest Beverage Company, a non-alcoholic functional spirit brand, as well as business mentor and consultant to marketing and personal branding.

Joanna Newton: And I'm Joanna Newton, co-founder of Millennial Marketer and [00:01:00] Agency that helps creators create their own digital products. Let's dive in. 

Michelle Pualani (2): so today, super simple. We have just got a mix of dandelion root and raspberry leaf. Raspberry leaf is good for your cycle as a woman and keeping yourself on track apparently. And then dandelion root is more so for liver detoxification. And since I've been dealing with a lot of health and hormone stuff, things have been all over the map recently and it just feels good to.

Try to get back in balance. That's what I'm focused on today is balance.

Joanna Newton: Getting in balance, doing all of the things today. I have a funny story with my beverage. Um, I wanted to try something new and so I got this, it's, it's very orange, it's a Thai tea. and it was a Thai tea, like it was like a canned boba beverage. And I got it all ready and I took a sip of it. My husband got me these actual boba straws so that

Michelle Pualani (2): Yeah.

Joanna Newton: [00:02:00] like actually have the boba. But the like, the tapioca pearls were so disgusting. Were so disgusting. had to like dump it out and remove, because the texture, I don't know what they did to them, but the texture was like, not it. It was just not it. So I dumped them and the tea is actually good. Like, it's actually like a strong tea flavor.

That's my thing with, I love boba, but sometimes depending on where you go, there's no. Tea flavor. It's just sugar, it's just cream, and I want the tea, know, but I want the little sweetness, but I want the tea. But the Boba pearls were like, like, like I ate one. I was like, this is the most disgusting thing I've ever had.

Michelle Pualani (2): You know, you can make your own boba at home. I've actually Googled it before, 'cause we love boba and making just like a simple tea or green tea or white tea option. And then adding boba at home has definitely been something that I've wanted to try. And so I've actually looked up, there are some boba making machines, so I'm [00:03:00] assuming that because it wasn't fresh boba, it probably was like something designed to be rehydrated.

So not super tasty.

Joanna Newton: like it was so bad. And you can make the tapioca pearls, like the little balls, or do you just buy them? You

Michelle Pualani (2): Uh, so you buy the tapioca starch and, and the machine makes the balls. I, I don't know the process entirely. It was just like a, I looked it up to see what it would be like. Yeah.

Joanna Newton: really fun. One of my favorite things, and this is something, there's no one near me that makes this, um, I'm gonna be in Chicago next weekend and there's a coffee, there's a boba place that makes this, and I'm definitely getting it. They make like a coffee drink with the tapioca pearls in them. instead of tea, it's coffee. It is so good. And I could totally, if I could make the tapioca pearls, I could then make my own version of that at home.

Michelle Pualani (2): Sure

Joanna Newton: to look into this.

Michelle Pualani (2): you should look into it, see if it works out.

Joanna Newton: Yeah. See if it works out. So I feel like in marketing [00:04:00] lately, especially this week, there's just, I'm finding there's so many controversies. lately, over and over and over again, we've dealt with Cindy Sweeney and all of that backlash to all kinds of things. Have you seen, Michelle, I know you were kind of unplugged this weekend doing all kind of things, but did you see what happened at Cracker Barrel?

Michelle Pualani (2): No, I have not. I'm excited to hear the story, and if you're listening, I kind of took like the past week and a half, two weeks off, things have been a little hectic for me, health and hormonal wise. I've kind of just been skating by doing the bare minimum with work and with life. I just have needed some time and totally failed on some things.

Even for the podcast last week I texted Joanna that I spent the entire weekend, and when I say like the entire weekend, it's pretty much completely true. Any downtime I had, I spent just reading romantic because just, I just need to turn my brain off and just having had too many things [00:05:00] going on, so, so I've been a little unplugged.

So tell me what happened.

Joanna Newton: So Cracker Barrel, this, story just just gets me on so many levels. So Cracker Barrel, I guess they got a new CEO and they rebranded. They changed their logo, they redesigned their stores and the internet. Hates it. And what's really interesting about this, so have you ever been to a Cracker Barrel? You don't strike me as someone that's ever been to a Cracker Barrel.

Michelle Pualani (2): No. So actually, if you could, for me and anyone listening who is not familiar with what it is, what is that business? What do they do?

Joanna Newton: So Cracker Barrel is, it's a restaurant. It's a chain

Michelle Pualani (2): Okay.

Joanna Newton: restaurant, and it's like country home cooking. So think and dumplings, fried chicken. Green beans, like what you kind of expect in like a southern kitchen. Now I will say Cracker Barrel makes the best [00:06:00] pancakes. I don't know what they, I mean, I think they fry them in like lard probably.

So they're like really crispy and delicious. They make really good pancakes. Um, but it's, it's just kind of like one of those chains somewhere. Maybe it's stop on a road trip or, or something like that. Um. Cracker Barrel had a very old country store feel. They literally had a country store like knick-knacks and snacks and stuff you could buy in their lobby. Around the restaurant are like rocking chairs. Like you can sit in and relax and there's like checker, you know, you can kind of picture this. And the whole feel of the restaurant was like down home. now, the rebrand. Um, and, and there's two things we can talk about with the rebrand, but the first thing with the rebrand, high level, they really. Kind of modernized, up like the look of the whole restaurant, like brightened it. It's more modern looking. It is [00:07:00] a little bit more kind of bland looking. They took away some of that character. They also changed their logo and their logo had like a man a barrel and it said Cracker Barrel. And now the logo's just kind of flat.

You know, like the trend of like the very flat, plain logos. It, it's like a very flat, plain, clean logo. And so from like a marketing perspective, af actually looking at it, they kind of did remove a lot of character from, from, from the restaurant. Um, they made it a little bit more modern and they kind of like took away honestly, the essence the company. But the backlash was interesting because, do you have any idea like what people could be mad at? Like for it rebranding, like from what I've told you.

Michelle Pualani (2): So based on what you're telling me. I mean my, so here's my first thought is, was their current brand not working? Like were [00:08:00] the sales not, there were people starting to not traction and actually attend. So that's always my first thought in question. Yeah.

Joanna Newton: think so. I

Michelle Pualani (2): You don't think there was like

Joanna Newton: like

Michelle Pualani (2): their revenue?

Joanna Newton: but I don't think they were like headed towards bankruptcy. Do you

Michelle Pualani (2): Yeah.

Joanna Newton: Like

Michelle Pualani (2): Okay.

Joanna Newton: a slow quarter.

Michelle Pualani (2): So then of course my second thought is everything that they people loved about that brand, they just removed. So when you remove the character, you remove the charm, you remove like the niche distinctions and that country. Feel there are people who were so bought into that from either a nostalgia perspective, a lifestyle perspective, a family perspective.

They grew up somewhere that somehow like, oh, I spent my birthdays at Cracker Barrel when I was younger, or I did this when I was younger.

Joanna Newton: took me

Michelle Pualani (2): Yeah, so, so I think removing that for a lot of people would be aggravating because it's like. [00:09:00] This was something that I believed in, that I felt strongly about, that I felt attached to, and now you just removed all of that.

So those are my first two initial thoughts.

Joanna Newton: Well, and I, and I think that at the core, I think that's what people. upset about. Um, and I kind of see that, right? They kind of like took away the character, took away the essence of the restaurant. I think there probably would've been a way to rebrand and refresh without, um, taking away those aspects.

There's also this funny thing, I don't know why companies just rebrand. All of the time, like there was nothing really wrong with the brand. They could have updated the menu or updated some of the restaurants, updated the decor a little bit

Michelle Pualani (2): Yeah.

Joanna Newton: rebrand. Like you can refresh without rebranding. But what people were getting really mad about is there were people who felt like. White [00:10:00] culture was being erased. So the argument was saying that, this is anti-white people, that, that this move was woke. That this move was some sort of, some sort of part of the liberal agenda because this man, this old man was taken off of the logo that somehow we were, we were erasing white culture in this. Rebrand, which is, which is really was really funny to watch because if, if you remember a couple weeks ago when we were talking about Sydney Sweeney and we were talking about the hate that I got for, you know, showing with this ad from like a cultural perspective, it was a lot of right. Right-leaning folks saying, you liberals are too sensitive. You, liberals are, you know, just taking everything just, it's just an ad. Right? And then it, it's, [00:11:00] it's interesting to watch because when they, you know, these folks felt attacked that their culture, that their white culture was being attacked by this rebrand, they felt equally as passionate. Against it as I am against Eugenics. Right. Like it's, it, it was like, it's really interesting to scroll through the comments and look through the things like people are not going to Cracker Barrel, like people on TikTok are like, this is me, I'm at my Cracker Barrel, and this is Saturday night and we're normally busy and nobody's here.

Michelle Pualani (2): Wow. Okay, so here's a couple of things, is that I feel like brands and businesses are just not in tune with their clientele. Like we saw this with the Budweiser campaign. They. It came out several years ago when they tried to feature a trans person as a representative of Budweiser, and they got so much backlash.

People were not buying it. They were, um, pouring it out. I don't know if it was Budweiser or Bud Light, but

Joanna Newton: It

Michelle Pualani (2): know what? It was [00:12:00] Bud Light,

Joanna Newton: I mean, it was the brand and.

Michelle Pualani (2): the brand, Budweiser. But

Joanna Newton: People are still mad about that. 

Michelle Pualani (2): people are still mad about it today.

Joanna Newton: still, because when I, when I share things on the internet, they're always like, but what about that Budweiser ad? Like, like people bring it up as being

Michelle Pualani (2): Yeah,

Joanna Newton: about that ad.

Michelle Pualani (2): so here's the thing is I think that there is an important consideration that needs to happen. Like you cannot do things just for progress's sake, right? Like. From looking at culture and seeing culture shift, we have the BLM movement. We have everything talking about trans and L-G-B-T-Q-I-A, we have women's rights and all of these discussions.

So there are a lot of marginalized represented communities within the US that speak out on different issues, and we see that through movements. We see it through. Protests and marches. We see it through social media content and all of these discussions, and we've talked a couple times about this podcast, about the celebrity influence in all [00:13:00] of this too, and how their voices speak to these things.

Obviously, politics has gone so far into the marketing political propaganda arena that it's all about advertising and it's all about dollars being spent towards convincing someone of a particular candidate, right? And so. I understand that people seeing all of these things would perceive it and then say, oh, I have to keep up with the narrative of the country and be more accepting of all people, right?

Like, I've gotta include more diverse voices. We have to have different representation in our media, in our marketing, in our campaigns. But the issue is, is there are certain aspects of brand of branding in a business. That need to stay in alignment and true to the business and brand. And when people try to step out of that and move into something that is not necessarily their to territory and then therefore their ideal client persona [00:14:00] and their main consumers don't agree with, but they're doing it, you know, to support a certain something from a business and revenue perspective, they may be significantly affected and hurt.

Now from an ethics and moral perspective, if they're gonna drive that home and if they truly believe it from a value systems perspective, they're then hopefully going to maybe lose people, but then attract a different audience. And I think that's. It has to be a clear decision and distinction. The whole Bud Light situation, they didn't make a clear decision and distinction.

They weren't willing to follow that through, and they, they weren't actually even targeting the right demographic because in my mind, the type of people who are gonna be drawn to a transgender celebrity or public figure. Aren't gonna drink Bud Light. So we're talking to the wrong people here. Now, crate and Barrel, the thing that you were mentioning when you said like losing the charm, changing the logo, updating the location, that to me, almost from an [00:15:00] economic perspective, I could see how people might be slightly upset because I see the whole country living thing is something relatable, financially accessible, maybe costs are gonna be a little bit cheaper.

People can go out to dinner and have like. A quote unquote nice meal without breaking the bank type of situation. So now if they're updating their brand, they're updating to their decor, is that a reason that they wanted to like update their prices, change the pricing structure, and then therefore appeal to a different demographic of people who are of an economic status that is distinct, right?

So people who are making more money, essentially it was that the goal and

Joanna Newton: goal?

Michelle Pualani (2): did it.

Joanna Newton: Yeah. And I think the thing, uh, specifically with Cracker Barrel, I don't think there was anything inherently anti-white about what they did. Removing an, outlined image of a man theoretically is white not removing white culture, right? [00:16:00] Like, I think that. what I've seen of the imagery, I think they were just going with trends that a lot of, a lot of fa, fast food chains, quick service, dining are going bland.

Like I don't

Michelle Pualani (2): Yeah.

Joanna Newton: trend personally. I think that they were just actually saying. Let's change with the times. All of these other restaurants are simplifying cleaner lines, grays and whites, and brighter colors. I think they were just going in that direction. I don't think that they were intentionally doing a kind of like. Anti country people or anti-white people in that branding. 'cause there's nothing inherent to that. But I do think, and this is, this is where context matters and why, as a marketer, you have to be so in tune with context. The reality is right now we are in a very politically charged climate. [00:17:00] Like we just are.

So I think people are going to see things they may have not seen otherwise because of what's going and, and it totally subconsciously because of what else is going on.

Michelle Pualani (2): And things that might not even be there, right? People are interpreting things in the media and in marketing. I get that there are undercurrents. I get that there are. Subconscious things that people can do with colors, with language, with positioning, with visuals that feed into more of the neuromarketing psychology aspects of marketing, branding, and business.

It's funny that this is a thing I actually didn't, I did. I would not have guessed that this was a thing that people were obsessed about. I haven't seen anything but the way that it was described to me, the first word that actually came to mind was whitewashed. So it sounds like a whitewashing by turning something into more bland, more acceptable, doesn't have a particular [00:18:00] culture behind it, doesn't really have something that they're speaking for, like a distinct voice or anything with heritage in it.

When you're making this kind of shift, you know what really surprises me about these things? What happened to the testing? Like who did they test this branding on and why do businesses and brands not. Engage the current audience and consumers that they already have in play. If they had tested this logo before launching it, they would've gotten the exact same freaking feedback and then said, Hmm, maybe we're headed in the wrong direction.

Like, why would you not engage the consumers that you already have in place?

Joanna Newton: I have no, no idea. And like I, the CEO was actually interviewed about this and she said everybody loves the rebrand. So, so like, she's like, everybody loves it, it's fine. Like there's only a few detractors, but like people [00:19:00] aren't going, so like, I just don't understand. And, and maybe it is this sort of, um. Maybe it's, it's a matter of like, the voices online feel so loud and then the dollars are actually just fine. That's possible. And maybe the, the, people who work at the restaurant who are filming videos and saying, look, nobody's here. It's a Saturday night. Maybe it's confirmation bias of it just happened to be slow that night.

I worked in restaurants. Sometimes a Saturday night's slow for no reason. So maybe it's not affecting the brand at all, and the majority have no problem with it. it, at the same, at the same time. Right? Like what if you tested? What if you said, Hey, he, here's five logos we're thinking about, like let's workshop it.

Like why not? Like social media is such an opportunity to talk with your people. So put it out there, see what people think, like get buy-in. The other thing that does is if people don't like it, [00:20:00] we, you can say like, well, we did a survey and 90% of you chose this one. So like, you know what I mean? You can like make that case, but I think we do forget to just talk to our people and see what they want.

Michelle Pualani (2): I think talking to your people is such a huge part. Of marketing and, and it's not even like, okay. Yes. Like it's always been important to understand. Testing and understand engaging your audience, but now more than ever, this is something I wanted to chat about today, is that I saw a guy who posted on social media, he's like, this is why you're not growing on social media.

It's because you're trying to essentially like show up in a way that isn't representative of you as an individual. And he was saying to just treat social media like you would be on FaceTime. It's just we're in. We, I know we've talked about this before and it's such a big part of this podcast, but we're in this different era of marketing.

Like do commercials still work? Sure. Do traditional advertising channels still work? Sure, but the [00:21:00] reason I feel like we're seeing so much controversy is one, we are in a political environment like you mentioned in our country, in which there is just so much division. But also too, our world of media has completely shifted and what people wanna see has shifted.

You know, people want to be engaged in the process. And I mean, the thing is too, is like something, it's Crate and Barrel, right? That's the name of the name Crate and Barrel, um, is something like Crate and Barrel is not a luxury fine dining establishment based on the things that you've described

Joanna Newton: Barrel, Creighton. For some reason,

Michelle Pualani (2): Barrel.

Joanna Newton: for some reason I thought you were switching gears to talk about Crate and Barrel, like the home goods, and you're like, it's not luxury. I'm like, I can't buy Michelle. How rich are you? I can't buy 50 plates just on a whim.

Michelle Pualani (2): Okay, so that's, that's what, so Cracker Barrel, what the,[00:22:00]

so what is Cracker Barrel? I mean, what, where did it come from in the first place? I wanna understand the, of this place. I wanna understand the founding. What is the story?

Joanna Newton: I'm sure the origin story has to be a little bit racist, right?

Michelle Pualani (2): That's what comes to mind for me. Cracker Barrel.

Joanna Newton: it's so funny because the logo had a man and a barrel on it, right? And so like, when they're like, you remove the man, like, are you mad because you, you thought that was the cracker or something? Like, I don't, I don't, apparently he's Uncle Herschel and he's some sort of like, figure in the lore.

I don't think he's a real person, but anyway. We, maybe we should look into the history of Cracker Barrel.

Michelle Pualani (2): I think we need to know, I think we need to know who found it or created Cracker Barrel. What is the origination behind the name? Because Cracker Barrel, to me is, brings [00:23:00] up its whole own issue as a name.

Joanna Newton: think it's, I think it's barrel barrels of crackers

Michelle Pualani (2): Sure, Joanna. Okay, so, so I mean, this is a good comparison, right? Something like Crate and Barrel. Crate and Barrel is an expensive luxury home. Good store, right? I don't wanna mess this up.

Joanna Newton: that's.

Michelle Pualani (2): So Cracker Barrel is what I would call Southern Living home cooked southern food type deal. So when I look at both of those brands.

I wouldn't see Cracker Barrel as like luxury established, high expensive, fine dining, thousand dollar, you know, meals type deal. And so. It's important to just understand what the brand is, what your purpose is, who you're talking to, like what's the goal and you need to stick to that. You know, again, I, the [00:24:00] whole brand rebranding situation, and it just kind of cracks me up because with so much backlash happening, like things like this, I'm like, how much, how much money did you spend on Aand like this?

When was there an issue with the brand in the first place?

Like you, you have a child.

Joanna Newton: a child again,

Michelle Pualani (2): So when you look at the cereal aisle, fruit Loops, captain Crunch, some other popular cereal. I don't buy cereal.

Joanna Newton: what else you knew. I was like, Ooh, I wonder how many sugary cereals she knows.

Michelle Pualani (2): two,

Joanna Newton: Charms.

Michelle Pualani (2): uh, the Tiger Lucky Charms. Frosted Flakes. Right. Okay. Now, since those came out and were established, how much change has the caricature had representing those brands, and how much change have those boxes had in their cereal [00:25:00] portrayal or sales? Right. You'll probably, if you like, lined up everything from a graphics perspective.

Obviously there would be progressions and changes to match graphic design and adjustments over time, but you still have the two. Can you still have the tiger? You still have the captain, you still have whatever, fill in the blank. Things like that typically don't change because when it works and it's working.

You stick with it. You do not try to completely transform or change anything and. I've seen this happen, I feel like over and over with brands when they try to do this big shift in dynamic change, like you can update your logo with still a representation of where you came from and your roots, as long as there's nothing inherently wrong with that and, and, and update it in a way that modernizes it so that you appeal to maybe new generations, but that you also still [00:26:00] fuel older generations because what's happening here is.

Cracker Barrel. Cracker Barrel. Cracker Barrel. It's hard to say. I was not used to saying it. Cracker Barrel, it is. So Cracker Barrel is not something that young kids are gonna go to of their own accord. You have a business that is gonna be introduced to them because their grandma and grandpa went there, the mom and dad went there, aunt and uncle, and you're taking younger generations and then you're building and creating that sense of nostalgia.

And so now as your younger generations get older, they're gonna take their kids there, they're gonna take their niece and nephew there, they're gonna take their grandkids there because they have this attachment to. Lineage to their own experiences. So you have to consider when you're rebranding, you don't just wanna think about who you're targeting right now.

Because they could see their brand and say, [00:27:00] okay, this is outdated, and now we're only speaking to the boomer generation. And the boomer generation is starting to die off, and so we have to get modernized to appeal to younger audiences. No, like you have to be able to appeal to a multi. Generational group of people and then indoctrinate is what you're trying to do.

A lot of people question or, I had this question. So I did a pitch competition in New York with the Enthused Foundation for my brand early on, and it was one of the questions that I got and feedback that I got, which I thought was kind of. Misplaced was questioning the target demographic and ideal client persona in which our brand was designed.

So if you look at our brand and business, for to be Honest, beverage company, which is a functional spirit, alternative line, a non-alcoholic replacement to liquor. For cocktails, we designed the brand for younger generations for your like Gen Z, gen alpha [00:28:00] with the beauty of the design, the interpretation of it, the feminine feel.

But that being said, we have customer profiles in each generation because we have different groups of people that appeal to our product for different reasons Now. I am not necessarily relying on all of our sales coming from the Gen Z Gen Alpha category because we have millennial parents. We have your boomers or older generations who are dealing with health concerns and health issues, and they typically have a bit more money to invest in what technically our product is like.

Not luxury, luxury, but it's a little bit higher cost for what it is. That being said, in the next 10 years in which I want to grow this brand, who is going to come of age during that time? Gen Z, gen Alpha, and. Our branding appeals to multiple generations because it has class, because it has style, because it is, it's almost [00:29:00] like a neutral ish brand, even though it's really lovely.

Everyone who sees our bottle, sees our branding, absolutely adores it. So it can appeal to people who have a slightly more educated professional side to them and want something that's nice. And then it appeals to people who could kind of care less about that stuff, but they like it anyway because it's aesthetic and cool.

Right. So when people think about their branding, when they think about their positioning, I think it's really narrow to think about, like, this is the only type of person that we appeal to. We kind of have to think about the different generation. So by someone taking something that appealed to an older generation and maybe turning it into something that's more modern, more fresh, appealing to younger generations, you're missing this gap of people.

And so I think it's important to consider as you transform or evolve, if you were to change something like your logo, it would be better to do smaller, more incremental shifts and changes into something more modernized if [00:30:00] you were considered something that's nostalgic old school and something that people look up to from, again, a heritage perspective.

Joanna Newton: Right, because maybe even just like messaging shifts for Cracker Barrel could have, because maybe, let's just pretend they were trying to get like. Our age and younger involved. Right. And they were like, maybe if it's young and fresh, maybe just messaging shifts, maybe some new menu items, maybe a slightly different look and feel.

Some little changes could have made a big impact. And one thing I see, uh, because I work with like. Course creators all day, every day. I know when something they'll, they'll launched, they'll have launched a course and it'll have gone really, really well, and for some reason, their next instinct to launch another course that's different. that's like adjacent [00:31:00] versus really leaning in and continuing to push and grow an audience for that existing product or building the next step, right? Like you could say, okay, launch this course. It was fantastic. What does someone need to learn next? instead they're like, okay, well I launched this course for hairdressers, now I'm gonna launch a course for nail technicians. And I'm like, why? Why would you do that? Maybe someday you add stuff for nail technicians. But I think this like way to progress a business is, is really confusing to people. And you think you need to just do, okay, I wanna make more money. I'm gonna do something completely different versus those like.

Incremental changes that create growth in a like sustainable way that makes sense, rather than trying to appeal to a whole brand new audience. You know, I have my hairdressers course, now I need a nail tech course. Well now you already have hairdressers following you. You already have [00:32:00] hairdressers on your email list.

Why would you then go. Try to find nail techs unless your hairdressers are saying, can I please have a nail tech course? Right? Unless they're telling you that do more things for hairdressers. I realized that was a very simplistic, like explanation. Um, but you know, it can get more complicated if you add in like psychographics and demographics and, and all of that. But I think we just, our instincts are like, I need something new. I need something different. I need something new. Versus what can I tweak? What can I adjust? What can I change?

Michelle Pualani (2): Absolutely. And I am totally guilty of doing that. Right. Like, and it's hard because I get it. As you're listening, I understand that you have lots of different interests. Right? I understand. I started in. I actually started teaching bar when I transitioned to fitness. Actually, that's not true. I actually started in this program called Monkey Bar Gym, and I taught at a martial arts gym.

But when I officially got back into fitness and started doing it full time, I was teaching bar. [00:33:00] And then I started teaching yoga, and then I got my personal training certification, and then I was teaching bootcamps and then I was doing personal training, and then I was doing functional fitness and then I was helping like women's health.

Um, and then I started doing health coaching, and then I started doing healthy habits with behavior change. And so when I got online, I had everything from a Healthy Habits course to a self-care retreat to a. Program about bar to a program about yoga to a program like it was all over the place. And granted you can say like, oh, well that's all under health and wellness.

But I was consistently confusing my audience and no one ever knew what I really did because I had all these different interests and all of these different passions. Now, if I had just launched online as yoga. Then people would've known, oh, she teaches yoga, and I could do a yoga in this style, and then I could do a different yoga for this type of benefit, whether that was sleep or back pain or whatever.

And progressed in that up until a [00:34:00] point, and then you say, okay, I'm confident I have a bunch of money in the bank because I've done really well with all these programs. And now, okay, I wanna introduce bar, now I'm gonna do bar. And this is more bar and bar and bar and bar and this is why you do this for bar.

And then again, same thing. Okay, I've sold enough of that. I feel confident. That's totally fine. I feel successful with what that is. Now I'm gonna pivot to this and you can start to branch out as you grow, of course. But offering self care and. Yoga and behavior change. Those are all totally wildly different offers and wildly different people that I'm appealing to.

Can the same people be interested in all three things? Yes, but when it comes to marketing, when it comes to messaging, it's gonna be distinct. And so I think. As we're getting started, or even if we're pivoting, we have to better understand that it's okay to have different interests, and it's okay to be diverse as an individual and be skilled in all of these different areas.

But when it comes to our offers, when it comes to the way that we're positioning ourselves, and I know that I still struggle with [00:35:00] this even today, is just getting super clear and being super specific and super focused. And then once you do that again, you can branch out. But even Alex Ozzi talks about this is that he's tried and at his level, he's tried like millions of dollars, tried not just like, oh yeah, I created a couple videos.

This is like research and testing and distribution at the millions and millions of views level. But he always talks about that when he tries to do fitness content. Which he knows plenty about and executes on and lives a life around. Whenever he does fitness content, his sales and revenue inquiries, applications, attendees for his events goes down because the type of person and product that he's selling is for business.

And so. You have to think about, like what is that core offer and then how am I positioning myself around that core offer so that everything streamlines and makes sense in that way? So I think your example was perfect.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, well, good. One of my [00:36:00] favorite, one of my favorite brand stories, um, that I think just illustrates us so beautifully is do you know the makeup brand color pop at all?

Michelle Pualani (2): Hmm.

Joanna Newton: So color, color pop is now. A main stage makeup brand in target in drug stores like, you know, right next to covergirl in Maybelline. But they started as just an online makeup store, you know, with I think probably an Instagram account and all of that.

And all they sold were these. Little eyeshadows called Super Shock Shadows, and they were single eyeshadow colors that were like $6 each. And they were bright, all fun, bright colors, glittery like they just literally had one product and they made their mark with one, one product, got viral, got sales, one product, different color variations. Then they added, like it [00:37:00] was in the age of like liquid lipsticks being really popular. Then they added like liquid lipsticks and it was like, these are gonna stay on forever. And they added those, right? So they just kind of like, they saturated the market with being known for these bright, vibrant, glittery single eyeshadows.

Then added liquid lipsticks, and then I think they added like something else and something else. Now they have everything. They have foundation and. Eyeliner and conceal. They have everything. They even have skincare products and makeup tools and everything. They're a full fledged makeup brand on the shelves of Target.

And I don't think they would've ever gotten there if they tried to start there.

Michelle Pualani (2): Oh, totally.

Joanna Newton: they, now they're there. Now they can do whatever they want, but they got there by starting from, from the ground up. And I think. So many things. I think part of this is there's so much saturation these days. It's not like, like if you wanted to start a [00:38:00] fast food chain, if you started huge trying to go everywhere, unless you had tons and tons of funding, that's gonna be really challenging. But if you start with some like food truck popups of like very specific viral foods, that's probably gonna be a smarter, a smarter way to go because I think people really like to. They like to feel like they've discovered something. So in the early days of Color Pop, if you knew what Color Pop was and what the Super Shock Eyeshadows was, you were like part of a community.

Like you discovered it. It wasn't just like mainstream and then it now was a mainstream brand. But the people like I knew Color Pop, you know, in the early days I feel part of that brand even though it's now this like huge thing because you know, I bought off their website like early. Early on and like knew, kind of knew their like social media managers names and like all of that, and that really built a strong foundation.

Michelle Pualani (2): It is very contagious. I know you [00:39:00] just read that book.

Joanna Newton: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Pualani (2): I'm thinking of blinking PO Blinking Point, tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell and then Contagious. I'm forgetting the author off the top of my head. I don't know if you know it. No.

Joanna Newton: sorry.

Michelle Pualani (2): to track sometimes. Anyway, so those ideas and concepts about like why things spread is people like to be in the know.

People like to have this awareness and then they like to demonstrate, ate that to other people because it makes them seem intelligent, savvy, aware, tapped in, tuned in. And when you think about a lot of the psychology behind marketing, a lot of it is how we present ourselves to the world or how we feel, right?

We want to be seen a certain way. Why do people buy BMWs? Why do people buy Lamborghinis? Why do people buy? Um. It's another big car, some other big car Ferrari. Okay, well we were just up in like Carmel Monterey area and the uh, car show was wrapping up. So we saw this, all these ridiculously nice cars right?

[00:40:00] Is granted for yourself. You probably feel a little bit of like, oh, this is great, or Oh, this is cool, and that's still a feeling, right? But. You get that car to show it off to other people. You want other people to see you in that car. And you wanna feel a certain way because other people are seeing you in that car because you have wealth, because you're cool, because you're hip and with it or what?

I don't know. And so when people,

Joanna Newton: so I dunno.

Michelle Pualani (2): when people, when people eat, not the Ferrari, no.

Joanna Newton: just, just like a Hyundai.

Michelle Pualani (2): It's effective, it's functional, right? But that's a whole different thing. Now, the other thing too, actually, so even from a perception perspective, I think this is from the Contagious book, actually, is that moms would rather be seen in an SUV or minivan type option to say like a Subaru, because the perception that they want of them is [00:41:00] nurturing safety and that they can care for their kids.

Right. So the perception doesn't necessarily have to be wealthy, rich, exclusive, luxury, et cetera. You could have someone who's from a farm and if they're going out, maybe they don't need to wear cowboy boots, but they're wearing cowboy boots because they wanna distinguish themselves as someone who is, has a farming or cowboy or like.

Horse based background, right? So the color pop is a really good example. Poppy is one that I think of as well. They just did. They just sold for over a billion dollars to I think Pepsi, but they started making products out of their home. They started with Farmer's Market. They started small. They started getting customer feedback.

They helped got help with like from family and friends. And they didn't start with all of the different flavors that they have now. Same thing. They started with maybe one or two or trying different core products. And so many people try to enter the market with so many things. And I think from a personal [00:42:00] brand perspective, right?

'cause we look at a lot of products and we look at a lot of big brands. And this example of Cracker Barrel. But for our personal brands that are just representative of us, our interests, our ethics, our lives, and then our, you know, digital product life, whether that is a membership or a course or just PDF guides or webinar, whatever it is, it's a lot easier to access those digital products and have them be a multitude from the start.

Right? It's really. You want to feel like, oh, I can offer all of these different things, but it really is, I think, critical to just focus on that one thing. Really solidify the offer, attract the audience and stick with that. I've been told like at Reach at least a million dollars with one core offer before you introduce something else.

Boss Babe did that, and they talk about how successful For them it was like a [00:43:00] 47 or $97 offer or something like that. That's all that they did. When it was in terms of sales, and it's still something that I'm learning because it's really hard to execute and do on an individual basis. You can see it and say, okay, I get it.

I see how that works. But for yourself, you're like, wait, but I wanna do this and I wanna do this and I wanna offer all of these other things. But I think it is important, and I'm learning that more and more is like focus. Single it out. Choose that offer, attract one type of audience, and then plan to grow all of the other things that you wanna do in the future.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and it's really, I think we over, like we overcomplicate things. I've been thinking a lot about like what is the bare minimum someone needs to have a business selling some sort of educational product. So whether it's a course. A membership, a coaching cohort, whatever that is. Like what is the bare minimum? Because there's so many books out there, there's [00:44:00] so many things out there. There's so many resources, and creators get very overwhelmed. They're like, I need a website and I need a funnel, and I need a $7 offer and a $27 offer and $129 offer, and then my masterclass. And they feel like they have to have all of that to get started. one that's overwhelming. Two, it's unnecessary. And three, if you're bootstrapping, you don't have the time or money to build all of that before you launch. So I've been really trying to think through like, and boil down what is, what is the baseline someone needs? And at the end of the day, you need one offer. Like one offer your people want. A system to sell it. So that could be one, not even a whole website. That could be one website, not one website, one funnel or one sales page just for that one offer.

Michelle Pualani (2): Google document could be [00:45:00] something as simple as that.

Joanna Newton: could be something as simple as that, and a way to drive traffic to that sales system like that's all you need. You don't need. And so that could, that could mean Instagram. I'm on Instagram. I post on Instagram my audience, with my content, with my thing. I sell. A $7 ebook. That's my offer. A $7 ebook. And I just need a really simple landing page. 'cause this is a $7 ebook. And that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna post on Instagram, sell my $7 ebook and do that and tell yourself, and I might not wait for a million dollars on that $7 ebook, but maybe tell yourself when I've sold $107 eBooks, then I'll worry about my next step. Do

Michelle Pualani (2): Yeah.

Joanna Newton: mean? And, and you could do that. Like you don't necessarily need to spend a ton of money create that ebook, start posting on [00:46:00] Instagram and have some sort of payment gateway so people can buy it.

Michelle Pualani (2): Yeah, you need zero. You need $0. Everything is such a low barrier to entry now, so I completely agree. I think the more simple you can be, the better. I know we talked a lot about things today that are overarching branding, marketing, Creighton Barrel, damnit, cracker Barrel. I am gonna have to go to one at some point.

Joanna Newton: culture by not saying the word cracker. Michelle.

Michelle Pualani (2): Absolutely. I just wanna be done with white culture. Okay, so, you know, we talked about the overarching Cracker Barrel, uh, tapping into your audience, getting audience feedback before you develop and create, and then just finding that simplicity, like really that's what it comes down to for your personal brand, is having that simplicity in place.

So thank you so much for tuning in today. Hit that subscribe button so you can follow along. We also have a substack, so these are more conversations where Joanna and I [00:47:00] update you on a weekly basis, what's happening in marketing, how you can enhance your personal brand and steps you can take, but in order to get the tactical, tangible takeaways right to your inbox.

Look through the show notes, you'll find a link to our substack. When you subscribe to the substack. We give you core takeaways that you can implement in your business, in your personal brand, and in your content creation on a weekly basis. So thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.