CONTENT VS. CONVICTION: Showing Up When Culture Collides (Ep. 012)

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Not all traffic equals profit — and not all business models lead to freedom. Discover why choosing the wrong model can stall your growth (and sanity) and how to pivot with intention.

What You’ll Learn:

• What you’ll learn about the hidden pitfalls of one-to-one, time-for-money business models
• What you’ll learn about how content creators and coaches must approach marketing differently
• What you’ll learn about navigating national conversations without derailing your brand
  
  

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction
 04:00 – The hidden cost of too many client calls
 07:00 – Choosing a business model that matches your lifestyle
 13:00 – Why complexity kills clarity (and sales)
 19:00 – Views vs. conversions: the monetization gap
 25:00 – Content creators vs. coaches: why your model matters
 31:00 – When national conversations overshadow your launch

References & Resources:

• Kauffman Training Program
• James Wedmore
• Taylor Swift
• Charlie Kirk

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📱 Social: @themichellepualani | @joanna_atwork
📩 Michelle: hello@michellepualani.com
🌐 Joanna: millennialmktr.com

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Transcript

Ep 012

Michelle Pualani: [00:00:00] Today we're talking about. Creating the business model that's really truly gonna work for you. How to approach that with the intention of scale and positioning, because that business model is very much going to impact your marketing and your positioning in the market. Alongside that, this past week, we definitely saw.

Some devastating things happening within the nation and how that has impacted our social conversations and how you can either take part in these conversations from a brand perspective or decide where you fall when it comes to creating content related to difficult topics. I'm Michelle Palani, Houston founder and visionary of To be Honest Beverage Company.

It's a non-alcoholic functional spirit brand as well as marketing consultant to businesses and brands who want to simplify their approach to their offer positioning and marketing messaging.

Joanna Newton: And I am Joanna Newton, co-founder of Millennial Marketer and Agency that helps creators build their own digital products online. [00:01:00] dive in. 

Michelle Pualani: today we have very simple tea. I was too lazy to make anything more fancy. It's a dandelion root, and I made it and I was like, oh, I don't need any honey in it. And I, so I sat down and got all ready and then I took a sip and I was like, oh my God, it tastes like dirt,

so it does have a little bit of honey in it now. But I was like, man, I'm glad I didn't taste it. When we got on the show and started recording, I'm glad I tasted it beforehand.

Joanna Newton: tasted like dirt. That is too funny. I sometimes tea can do that. Today I have just a simple green tea. Um, I had, uh, Michelle and I were chatting before we started filming today and I told her like yesterday I managed to book myself seven, like seven hours of calls in one day. And so at the end of the day I like. Hated my life, was totally overstimulated, was ready to quit everything. Give up everything. Except this podcast, by the way, just so you know, Michelle, when I was like, I'm gonna quit everything. I [00:02:00] was like, but I still have to do the podcast. Um, good. Yeah, the podcast wasn't going away. Um. But when I get like overstimulated in general, I feel like caffeine just like affects me more.

So I just went with like a simple green tea for this afternoon for filming. Um, 'cause I still kind of feel like I'm recovering from my seven hours of Zoom calls.

Michelle Pualani: That's a lot. I mean, you know, as a solopreneur business owner, obviously there are demands. If you are the type of person who takes discovery calls for your business, it's critical that you have those calls booked out. Or if you work with clients like you do as an agency model, you're gonna have to have follow up calls, check on things, launches, or planning, like reviews and everything else.

And for some people it does work to just time block and say, Hey, I'm gonna knock all this out. And I know Joanna, you and I have chatted about like scheduling throughout the week, Monday through Friday. How am I breaking out my days? But there are certain things that can be [00:03:00] really overwhelming and you have to consider and think about like your personal energy and state of wellbeing.

And you're taking on a lot when you're having those conversations, right? You have a client who is maybe looking for a change with something demanding something of you, or even just moving something forward, or they're just discovery call, where now they're asking questions and they're maybe in a state of turmoil because they don't know what to do, or they're coming to you because something else went improperly with another agency, and so they're carrying that.

You take on a lot of those things, and so it's important for you to be able to take time to rest, whether that's in between or maybe not taking on so much that day. Sometimes you don't know until, you know, right? Like wasn't supposed to be that way, but all of these calls got booked, and so as you're working through, you know, your daily schedule, not Joanna, but you, as you're listening, as you're working through your daily schedule, it's important too.

Give yourself the time and space. Acknowledge and recognize that [00:04:00] these things are going to impact you emotionally, psychologically, and that you can take some time. Joanna was telling me that she had this sense of like, oh, I wanna quit it all, which I totally understand. A lot of times I get that feeling of like, Hey, let's burn it all to the ground and just like.

Start, scratch, or not deal with any of it, but that's not usually the case. So take a walk, get outside, give yourself some time to kind of recoup and recover and know that you can come back to it with a different approach. And now you know, let's do something different in the future. Yep.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and it's hard to strike. Strike that balance. Like I have on my calendar for not booking so many meetings and things like that. But then, but then you also have clients that have deadlines and things that have to get done. And if you don't. Do them. If you say, no, I can't meet with you till next week, that delays everything.

And that can, that can be, it can be hard to say. No. It's funny we're talking about this because know, I had my day [00:05:00] Monday and then on Tuesdays I don't have that many calls 'cause we filmed the podcast and do all of that. And then my Wednesday wasn't that busy and I was like, that's good. I just won't book anything else.

Well, I booked today, I booked two calls for tomorrow because. Oops, because I have, I, I got a brand new client that wanted to get started right away, and then I have another client that wants a funnel and they want it kind of built right away. And I'm the starting point of like the funnel strategy. So if I delay my call, that delays the build and, and all of that.

So I'm trying not to delay things, but I do have, I'm not, I, I won't book anything else. I promise you No, I will not book anything else. I think it's,

Michelle Pualani: Okay.

Joanna Newton:I blocked all the remaining times so no one can book something on my Calendly. But it is really hard as a business owner because you want, you know, for me, I do sales, so I, you know, need to be taking discovery calls.

I client work, so I need to take client calls. I have a team, so I need to meet with my team, meet with my business partner, and do all of that. [00:06:00] It is challenging to fit it all in, um, and that's why. know, I'm always kind of reevaluating like, what can I delegate? What can I pass on? What could, what do I actually not really need to do? Um, but what tends to happen is we like have growth and my schedule gets crazy and then I figure out, and like figure out how to deal with it and I readjust. But I'm kind of always doing this readjustment.

Michelle Pualani: Yeah, I think this is actually a really important conversation overall for our listeners. So on this podcast, we typically talk about updates weekly branding, marketing. Content creation, right? That converts and how to actually manage your positioning and your online presence predominantly. But the underlying conversation here is business model.

What type of business model do you want? And I actually just went through this training. So I started doing some consulting for a local nonprofit. So they are women's business center. They do help male and female, [00:07:00] but. Business owners, clients, people can come to them and get free resources, free support in building a business from ideation to development and launch.

And so I actually started onboarding with them and I did this whole fast track through the Kauffman training program to learn the process that they approach with in terms of steps and you know, presentations and everything else that I need to know for. Being a consultant, and part of that conversation is even just deciding the vision for your business and what that looks like.

And I think people dive head first into what it is that they're doing. And that's not a bad thing because a lot of people, you know, figure it out as they go. But I feel like it's important for people to step back and consider. What is the path that I wanna take? What is the life that I wanna lead, and how do I format my business to fit that?

Am I okay with seasons? 'cause Joanna, what [00:08:00] now? What you're going through now is a season, right? It won't always be like this in the business, but when you're an agency model, you have so much one-to-one contact because we're delivering a very clear service that calls for that type of touchpoint. And so if you're reflecting on and thinking through the type of business that you want to establish, whether you are an expert authority coach in the space, you've gotta decide what type of model you want to move forward with.

And there are all different kinds, and we've talked about them before in terms of membership, one to one, small group. Digital products, brand deals and partnerships. Affiliate, like there's a lot of different directions you can go when it comes to establishing your business and creating and generating income in your business, but I don't think we often take into account these types of things.

Some people don't like to do sales calls and discoveries, but they feel like they have to because they have a coaching business and okay, well they're not gonna come on coaching with [00:09:00] me if they don't have calls, but that's not necessarily the case. I know a lot of folks who. Omit discovery calls from their business for the reason that they wanna protect their time, protect their energy, and they don't do very well on those sales calls.

So. You know, no one's gonna be able to necessarily tell you the right model for you as you approach your business, but I think it's important to also understand what the opportunities are. I feel like when I got started in personal training and fitness, it was very clear to me that I just had to work with clients one to one, and that was.

The model that I had to approach it with when realistically that wasn't actually the case. It was just a belief. It was my understanding, my interpretation, my perspective. And so if I had done a little more research to better understand, okay, these are potential business models at the forefront of what I do and that my expertise can fit into.

I might have chosen differently, and it might have totally set me on a completely different path in my initial business. So I think it's important to understand what are the [00:10:00] opportunities, what are the possibilities? What types of models can I fit into, and how is that going to create the lifestyle that I'm generating for myself, right?

Because when you're starting your own business, that's ultimately the goal. You're building a lifestyle. If you just wanted to make money, get a job, like that's you. Just plug right into a system, make money, get benefit. It's like the whole thing's taken care of. But if you wanna be a business owner, if you are a business owner, like you've gotta be more thoughtful about how that business is gonna support or fit into the lifestyle you want.

Joanna Newton: Yeah. And even with that being said, like, you also have to think about the, the quantity of like how much it takes to scale, right? Because with, with running an agency, I can scale by getting employees, right? Like that's a way to scale. Um, but I'm always gonna be a little bit. Limited by time, whether that's my time or my team's time, because scaling with one-to-one work, it's either more time on my side or I'm paying more for [00:11:00] team members.

So it's not like every extra dollar you bring in, you're necessarily bringing in more money because that dollar you bring in is someone's time and when, when your whole model is time for money, that's that's difficult to scale. So I think that's like a phase that I'm in right now. It's like we're sort of at max capacity for this, you know, time for money output, and I could probably put in more hours a day, but max capacity into how many I like.

I like live calls, I like taking discovery calls. I like getting on a call and helping clients. 100%. I enjoy it, but I can't do it for seven straight hours in a day. Like, that's too much for me. Maybe someone, maybe someone else could do 12. But for me, and like the lifestyle, I want the flexibility. I want seven hours every day isn't realistic.

You know, maybe four hours in the day I could be on, I could be on Zoom calls and like be really happy and fulfilled and. Have all the flexibility that I want. [00:12:00] So that's why thinking through models that aren't one-to-one time for money can really be life changing. So that is when you can find ways to deliver whatever it is you do. In a group setting or one to many or through an ebook or a course or a membership, um, or even if you are in the physical, like a more physical product world, like a physical product, um, that you're not hand making, right, that it's not taking your exact one-on-one time can be a huge way to scale, right?

And to go beyond a certain like income threshold.

Michelle Pualani: And through that process, you're also going to learn, right? Like. Sometimes it takes the experimentation and if you're at a place where you are a one-to-one service provider, you do offer coaching, that's a great place to be because you can leverage the conversations that you're having, the marketing that you've already used to improve your [00:13:00] offer positioning so that when you transition to something that is more scalable, say a digital product, of course, a membership, a group program, or even like a mastermind retreat level type deal.

You have a lot of content that you can work with in order to pursue those avenues. So if you are in that one-to-one capacity, don't think that you're stuck there because there is scalability that you can shift to and change. And this is something that I've actually been thinking a lot about. I've been seeing some conversations around it online, but I struggled with this for so long.

It was the idea that more complex, complicated, layered options was the way to go. So I felt like in my fitness and health coaching business, that if I just had another lead magnet, if I just had. Another workshop. If I just had a different course, if I just had, and just like add on, add on, add on. So if you had looked at the point where I was in my business, it was like this whole host of [00:14:00] scattered concepts that were loosely related to each other, right?

Like self-care, bar yoga, healthy habit formation. But those are almost all individual, unique businesses, at least in the digital space. Especially when you're getting started and you don't have that huge of an audience. You know, if you're someone like a wellness collective or, um, oh my gosh, I'm blanking on some of the names, but like the Calm app or.

The daily own platform or you know, when you, when you're actually positioned in a way to present different wellness, health, like alternatives. But if you're a solopreneur and you're just presenting your things, it's typically best to at least start with that niche topic and have one core offer. One core lead magnet, one core messaging like component that you are launching into the digital space and creating your brand and presence around.

What I was trying to do is offer way too much, and I was [00:15:00] constantly speaking to a different person in a different way, and so everything that I'm trying to do now is geared towards 1, 1, 1, 1. What is the one offer? What is the one person, what is the one problem and solution? And just do that and do it over and over and over again.

And I know it's really hard because as someone who wants to have different ideas and talk about different things and is multi-passionate and really cares about all of these different opportunities in the world and has all these different interests, you want to consistently do something different and talk about something different and offer something different because you feel like.

One, you wanna keep your interest. And two, Hey, I've gotta serve this person and I can serve them in all these multidimensional ways. But it's really just confusing your prospective clients. It's confusing your audience. And so that's something that I'm gonna be working really hard on in my messaging and my new brand positioning is simplification.

Clarity and kind of [00:16:00] singular focus as opposed to trying to think through, okay, what's my entire ascension model? And I have to have all of these different offshoots and like we've talked about, Joanna, is the complexity of systems. And I'm gonna take this person from step A to step B, to step B two and B three, and you know, all of these different directions when really it can be a lot more simplified, especially the way that social media and digital presences are governed today and how people interact with you.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and I think sometimes we just get really caught up in trying to do all of the things and when some something isn't working, we pivot almost too fast. But when you, and there is danger, I think, in waiting too long to not pivot and like all of that, but, but. When you think of some of like the favorite content creators you follow, or people you've bought a course from, or people that you've bought a book from or interested in, they probably have like one very singular message.

They have a formula for their videos. They're, [00:17:00] they're saying the same thing as their CTA all of the time. Right. And you might have heard it 18, 19 times before you've taken action and bought it. And so when you think back to the times you purchased something and you've make buying decisions, think about what drove you to do that.

And it's likely very consistent messaging. Um, and not flip-flopping and not trying to be everything to everyone. But I know that's really hard because when you post, um. I've really tried to like start to gear my, my social content to really talking about business systems and, you know, operations and how to run an efficient business. And it kind of like killed my views, I know that that is, that's like a great differentiating factor to me. It's like what I want my future digital products to be focused on and. I switched gears so it kind of [00:18:00] tagged my views. I have to keep going, right? Like I have to like keep going in that. Um, and it can be hard.

I get it.

Michelle Pualani: It can be really hard and the focus can be hard. And I know we usually talk about like updates and things like that, which we'll talk a little bit more throughout the rest of the episode. But know that marketing principles are foundation. There are psychological tactics and approaches that are not going to shift and change.

So even though we see changes in platforms, we see changes in cultural moments. We see changes in. E, even if you wanna talk about like the algorithm and how things are being presented, there are still marketing principles, foundations, and formulas that will continue to be the same. So what we want to enforce for you is that that.

Principled approach. That foundational approach, doing the work to simplify is a critical component of the approach that you take to your business, your content [00:19:00] creation, your marketing, and how you present to the world when you're building your personal brand. And you know, there are. Celebrities and people of a different level who you feel like, oh, well they can talk about anything, but they're also not trying to typically sell a course, a product coaching or an offer.

And there are a lot of people, we talk about this a lot, Joanna is like, there are a lot of people who can get traffic but aren't selling anything. They're not making any money. So they may have a ton of views, they have a ton of traffic, they have eyeballs, and they can get attention. But that's not converting to anything.

So I'd rather have a lot less attention, unless obviously you're going the brand deal route and you're positioning that way. But I was just having this conversation with someone, actually, I was talking to a YouTuber who, um, this is, he has videography in his background. So YouTube is something that's like newer for him that he's working on, and he creates content.

And recently a couple of his videos have reached the like couple hundred thousand. [00:20:00] Views on Instagram. And so he's been approached by some different brands and we were talking about different ways of leveraging his presence. 'cause he just got monetized on YouTube. But he's not leveraging affiliates. He doesn't have any products or programs himself.

He is more so getting, uh, sent products, like physical things for like, quote unquote ambassadorship, but he's not being paid yet really by those brands and businesses to create content. And so he's kind of in this funny. Gray area of not really understanding like what the landscape looks like, and I feel like Joanna, you and I have tons of.

We've seen so much and been exposed to so much. Anytime I have a conversation with someone, I feel like I'm consulting with them to be able to guide them to, you know, like, Hey, this is an opportunity. Hey, that's not the best. Hey, this is like, you know what I mean? It's not like saying like, yes, this is the way to go.

But it is kind of interesting [00:21:00] to just realize there are people who can get a ton of traffic because he's created these great videos, but he has no idea about how to monetize it other than obviously ad platform kind of type of deal. But that just kind of comes along with the views. But you have to realize, like you've gotta be strategic about the traffic that you're getting and how you're driving them.

Because a content creator who's doing it for a brand is gonna be very different than a coach who's doing it for themselves. And the type of content that these people are creating in the marketing, the way that they're approaching the presentation of things is very, very different. Goes back to business model.

If you've gotta decide on your business model, you've gotta decide on. What it is that you're doing, and be intentional about how you're presenting in the digital space so that you get what you want out of it, you know?

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and we see,

Michelle Pualani: Hmm.

Joanna Newton: this all the time, and I see this with the people that my clients and the people I talk to that. I think a lot of [00:22:00] people who have a, like a coaching business or a course and, and all of that, they look at these content creators who are built around for partnership deals. sponsored videos, monetizing views, and think that that's the content that they have to make.

Michelle Pualani: Yes.

Joanna Newton: and we watch that and we say, okay, well I have to have a studio and I have to have tons of graphics and music and all of these jump cuts and all of this B roll and these like fully produced videos to sell. But a lot of times those people. they might even have a membership. They're not like selling out their membership because their content is what is really, what is making them the money versus what's behind the scenes. And a lot of the content that's making people money. I mean, I know someone who has a YouTube channel where it's just her filming on Zoom and PowerPoints [00:23:00] and she you know, 30, $40,000 a month in course sales. Right. And so I think just realizing that you should to the business models that are most like yours to, to look at how you should be creating content and, and what you should be doing. 'cause you don't have to have a million followers across platform to really, really make money with your knowledge.

You just need to connect and what that looks like for you might look different.

Michelle Pualani: And I feel like we get caught up in that. I mean, even with, you know, the weekly things that we're seeing or the more popular cultural approaches or the trends or this or that. A lot of the people who are doing the trends, their content isn't at all related to anything that they're selling. So you see it, yes, they have millions of views.

Yes, they have tons of engagement, but where. Are they sending traffic? You have no idea who they are. [00:24:00] You don't recognize their faces, you don't. Associate what they're doing with any type of level of authority, expertise, or specialty in any way. And I have definitely get gotten caught up in this is looking at content and consuming content and thinking that's the type of content that I have to create in order to be successful when realistically it doesn't relate at all to the type of business that I want to build.

And it's such a great reminder for myself and as you're listening to think through. What is the business that I wanna create? How do I wanna position myself? Am I a coach? Am I a mentor? Am I a consultant? Am I a service provider? Am I a freelancer? Am I a content creator? Am I an influencer? What do I want to be and how do I wanna be represented in my personal brand?

'cause you can have a personal brand for all of those things, but the approach is gonna be very different. The type of content that you're creating is gonna be very different. Your positioning and [00:25:00] marketing is gonna be different, and it's important not to get caught up in. The trends and the virality notion.

Does virality help you? Absolutely. Can you create, create content that goes viral, that then drives tons of sales? Abso freaking, we're not saying that at all. And being able to learn the skills of gaining attention, keeping attention is very important. But if you can gain and keep attention, you still have to convert.

There's still a level of where are you directing that attention? What are you wanting them to do? For YouTubers, a lot of that is gaining the views and gaining the watch, but then encouraging them to be invested in your brand so that they look at the description. Ali Abdal I think is a great example of this is, you know, he started from the medical space.

His first digital products I think was around the um, like preparing for. An exam, right. For like medical school or something like that. [00:26:00] So that's where he started in creating digital products. But he just created content around those topics and those ideas. And then he had a link, same thing with James Wedmore.

He started and got to over a million dollars with a $97 product on video production, and he just created YouTube videos and then the link was in. The description and driving that traffic. You know, there are more like clear calls to action on each of the platforms, whether you're Instagram or TikTok, and speaking directly to the person, but that conversion piece is critical.

And how, again, you're taking that attention and turning it into what you want. Are you directing them to an affiliate link? Are you working with the brand and getting paid to make the video and position the product in a really healthy way? You know, like what it is that you're trying to accomplish, and that's where you should be starting when you approach your marketing, when you approach the languaging and the messaging.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and having that clear call to action and that clear [00:27:00] path, I think a lot of times, um. You know, in the same way, it can be easy to try to make too many content, too much content that's going in different directions, but actually having one clear call to action that is consistent, that is clear, that is easy to go to not having the 75 different links in your bio.

Not having, you could do this or this, or this, or this. I was on a call today with a client mapping out their, their funnel structure and. Part of what I'm doing is I'm helping them map out what they wanna create with their funnel is simplifying because they're like, well, I wanna do this and I wanna do this.

And I'm like, okay, let's do it in this way, in this flow and just like simplify that customer journey. So we, so we get from point A to point B rather than give them a hundred different options to choose from because people will get confused and not know what to pick at all, um, at all, which can be really hard. 

Michelle Pualani: [00:28:00] psychologically, I mean, the data shows that after a certain amount of options, people just opt out because the decision making process is too challenging. So knowing that you are the one who's curating that customer journey and telling them where to go, you're the expert.

You're the coach, you're the guide. You're the one who's saying, Hey. This. If this is you, which is the ideal client avatar, then this is what you need. If this is what you need, then this is how you're gonna get there and how you're gonna get there is X. You don't just say, well, you could do this and you could do that.

It's like if someone came to you for fitness and I was a personal trainer. I wouldn't be like, well, we could go, you know, to do this option, or we could do these six exercises, or maybe we could do these other 20 things like, but I also kind of learned a little bit in this category. No, I'd bring it all together and I'd say, this is our plan.

And when they came into each session, I would have a curated approach to that process. I would never ask them like, well, maybe you wanna try these other things. You know, obviously I'm giving them. Options if it's like [00:29:00] something that they don't enjoy. But I'm curating the process, so that's something to keep in mind.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, one thing at a time, one step at a time, one call to action at a time, and just get people through that process. one of the big goals of this podcast is for us to share updates. What's going on in marketing, what's trending. What we're seeing is working. And not working. And as I was throughout the week, I like tend to keep in my notes pad like things that I'm seeing and hearing to share with you each week, which is actually really fun for me because then I like keep an eye on what's going on, but then I have a real purpose for it. Now this week was tough. Um, and I was like, how do we even talk about this? Because big national conversation is around the death of Charlie, Charlie, Kirk. Am I saying his? Is that his name?

Michelle Pualani: Yeah. Charlie Kirk. I think that's right.

Joanna Newton: I'm like, I'm like blanking on, on his name. So it's [00:30:00] been a very national conversation and they're really online, has not been talk about much else.

I don't know what you've been seeing Michelle, but really from individuals, you know, actual friends and, and personal, um, acquaintance. of mine talking about Charlie Kirk to influencers, to news articles, to what's on the news. Um, if for some reason you haven't heard, Charlie Kirk is a sort of right wing political content creator.

Essentially, he talks about, um, a lot of views and opinions that are on the right wing side, and he was killed last week and it has caused so much debate. So many things happening and, and all of that. Something that I, I have chosen to not really talk about online because it's not really related to what I do. Whereas other topics we've talked about, Michelle, like [00:31:00] when we have an American Eagle ad that. Sparks controversy or you know, a new movie or something like that is very fitting for us to talk about in the branding world. This is a very, a very serious issue and has sparked a lot of debate. And it's all the internet.

What is the internet is talking about? And what I wanna talk for us today is about. What happens to you and your brand when there is a sort of widespread national conversation that has. Really nothing to do with your business. And you are posting online, you are doing your thing. But then there's this other thing kind of looming in the background because that's something we've been facing a lot in this country over the past year is there's a, there's a lot going on, right?

There's, there's a lot going on. There's always things happening. Um, and when on the internet, everybody's talking about one thing. It's. [00:32:00] Whatever message you want to talk about. Heard. 'cause everyone's watching Charlie Kirk videos and what's happening and all of that. then when you come in with your lighthearted, cute little TikTok, that can almost feel outsourced outside of the conversation.

And I've seen a lot of accounts, views tank because they're not political accounts, they're not talking about this, they're, they're doing their thing. And so it kind of stalls their progress.

Michelle Pualani: So this conversation is so important, and I think based on the past week in terms of what we're seeing with presence, content creation, you're absolutely right. So it makes sense that our conversation would not necessarily be geared toward, we're not seeing. Superficial shallow type approaches, which I consider, obviously Sydney Sweeney has undertones.

Obviously Taylor Swift, like we have these things that have undertones to them that can be consi considered serious, but I feel like the topics that we typically bring up are more about just like [00:33:00] perception and you know what's happening at a top level cultural like dynamic. That's then impacting the way that we're receiving that content.

Right? This is a lot more challenging. Of a topic and it is for you as a listener considering the way in which you want to engage. Now, I truly believe that your platform is your platform. You get to decide 100% all the time what you engage in and what you do not engage in. And people will say like, you know, your silence speaks volume and everything else, and you have to either be okay with that.

Or speak up and voice your opinion As someone myself who feels like they played on both sides of things completely ignoring and also taking part, there are also content creators that I watch who never take part in anything but the content [00:34:00] that is designed for their brand and business. And I have to say that I really respect that because again, the type of business model that you have.

We'll determine a lot of times how you take part in these conversations. Now, if you feel very strongly about something, I encourage you to speak up about it because that does represent your brand. It does represent your ethos. You just have to remember that it may polarize and that's okay. We've talked about it a lot on this podcast, and we encourage you to polarize, to send people to love you or hate you, but you want people to.

Be able to decide. So it's important to not be wishy-washy and in the middle. So if you are gonna take a stance, do it with strength and do it with conviction, as opposed to, Hey guys, I know we have a lot going on in the world right now, and I just wanna say that like, you know, have kindness and the like, any type of content that's created in that vein, I would say just one people swipe, and [00:35:00] two, it doesn't represent.

Anything important, so just don't even add to the conversation at that point. Like if you are going to take a stance and, and speak out, like make it clear what it is,

Joanna Newton: you

Michelle Pualani: why it's where you stand, and also how it relates to your brand and business because you can always tie it in, understand. Why it's important that you're talking about it.

If you're choosing to talk about it, how it relates to your products, your programs, your offers. You don't need to sell at that time, but loop it in and why it's important to you. Let's just say you work with women in mental health. And so this conversation is talking about Charlie Kirk and the types of content that he creates and how that's impacted people in the past.

Now, you would obviously never advocate for anyone to be hurt or violence to break out, but you can talk about the conversation of the type of content that he creates and how that impacted women, people of color and different races that you speak [00:36:00] to directly, and how to best respond to this situation, which some people may be.

Feeling grief about, but other people may be feeling relief about, which is also a challenging thing to discuss. And so, you know, from a brand perspective, you get to ultimately have the say whether you speak out or not. You get to decide like what position you take, but you have to be okay with it and speak with conviction and know that it's also okay to not speak out on certain things.

Don't feel pressured to do it just because everybody else is know that there are plenty of brands and businesses who are just gonna keep going about their day, talking about what they're talking about. I also believe if I'm following someone for a specific reason, I don't need to look to them for political advice.

I don't need to look to them for emotional support and help and guidance. I follow them because they give me YouTube [00:37:00] tactics, right? So I'm not looking for that type of content from them. So keep that in mind as well, is that it's okay to just extract yourself and. Not speak to anything, in which case I'd advise that you do that across the board unless there is something that comes up that is like way outta left field that you're like, I have to talk about this.

Just take a general positioning that I will continue with my business content. I'll continue with the type of content that I create, and I'm okay with that.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and it's tough when these things, I think when these sort of this is likely a moment that will end up being in history books, right? Like it's the Sydney Sweeney ad is not gonna be in history books. This is gonna likely be a

Michelle Pualani: I do marketing classes. Marketing,

Joanna Newton: Yes. Marketing classes, yes. History books. I don't think so.

Joanna Newton: And these, you know, when there's certain big moments that you [00:38:00] know will end up in the history books that affect the. The social conversation so much, and I think because of the nature of social media and how the algorithms work and how this polarity is needed, it starts to feel like there's really only two sides and there's like no nuanced. Approach to this. So like for me personally, I don't agree with most of what like Charlie Kirk talks about. I think a lot of it, like I don't agree with, I also don't think he should have been murdered. and, and then there becomes this, this I, we slowly get into these two sides because of like social media bandwagon effect and people talking to each other that you either have to say, I love him, I. thought he was a great man. Rest in peace or good thing he was murdered and, and like that's wild to me because I [00:39:00] can think, don't agree with his ideals and he shouldn't have been murdered. Right? Like I can think that, but I feel like we get into this, this side or the other side, and then. the conversation, so that's kind of like one side of it is that social media just like creates this conversation. The other thing that happens Sometimes your business and what you are doing can be really affected by happening in the national conversation. If I had a client who actually had a launch on Sunday, and I kind of realized after the fact we didn't get all the, as many like people excited and enrolled in it's possible, and I realized, oh yeah. All weekend, everyone was talking about this. So it like lowered all of his followers, probably interest in what he was [00:40:00] doing because of that. Right? Because what's happening in the national conversation can affect what you have when it's this, when it's this level, right? Like when it's a school shooting, when it's the start of a war, when it's someone. Getting killed when it's something major like that, it does affect, and obviously those things kind of are more important, right? Like so I'm not saying like this horrible thing happened, you should be so sad it affected your business. But it does. And I think that's something, as a business owner, you have to be aware of that like what's happening in the national conversation does affect your sales.

It affects your ability to get attention, get. Leads. If people, if you're, if I, you're doing one-to-one sales and people are really preoccupied with a particular thing, they're not gonna move through the sales process as fast, and I think it's just something to be aware of. In, in your world and in your business that what's happening in, in the [00:41:00] national conversation, we talk a lot about how you can kind of use the national conversation to like bring your business forward, right?

If it's, if, if everyone's talking about something and you talk about it, you can bring forward. But I think there are some things that happen that can actually kind of pause things or slow things down and that's okay. And as a business owner, you just have to navigate those things.

Michelle Pualani: When we were marketing, uh, paid ads in kind of the initial stages for my physical product brand, to be honest, we. We're focusing on predominantly the state of California. 'cause we're based here in California. And so just from a shipping perspective, from an access perspective, it just kind of made sense for a starting place for us.

But then the LA fires happened. And the LA fires, if you're not familiar in 2025, have like devastated Malibu. The Palisades, like we're talking like. Mass amounts of not just acreage, but impact of the entire LA [00:42:00] area. And over the course of probably even at least two weeks, there was no way that our marketing to the LA area would be successful because everyone is fixated and focused on.

The fires that were happening and the impact on the community. And so, you know, we just pivoted the direction of our ads. We could have just kept them running in the same location, but we just choose to exclude LA area. Now obviously the rest of California was thinking about like support and supplies and gathering those things, so it was just kind of a funky time.

Now, should that completely derail your marketing campaigns and plan? No, but it is important to take into account, you know, if you do have a launch planned, is it possible with that thing coming up? That you are able to push it back so that people have more capacity. Now, not everyone, there are a lot of people, there's millions of people that you're technically, theoretically meant to be reaching with your marketing, with your [00:43:00] campaign, with your launch, with your offer.

So there are gonna be some people who are distracted and some people not so much. Other people aren't really gonna be paying attention. So it's not to say that you should limit yourself based on the time of year, the season, national things happening, like all of that. But it is important to consider and.

Especially if you're doing something that's a live situation, how can you possibly shift change or address it if it also makes sense to you, right? Like if you are impacted by this thing that happened and you are feeling the emotional result of hearing the news, seeing it happen, like experiencing the conversations online, just think about your energetics and like what you're bringing into that.

Launch or that experience as well. So if you have to move it, it's not the end of the world. You can always shift, you can always adjust and change it to meet your needs and hopefully the needs of your audience as well, so that they can be fully invested in what you're doing.

Joanna Newton: Yeah, and [00:44:00] even thinking through like the, the mindset that you have as a business owner, because I think if, if something. It the world happens that like affects your business. You can like go in a couple of directions. You can think like, oh woe is me. Like this happened to me. Poor me. Now my launch wasn't successful because this happened right in the middle of it.

Right? You can like, it can really. Get in your hat and you can take that victim mentality. You can also, if you're like unaware and you don't think of these factors and like maybe you were posting all of that week and your engagement just went down, you can think, oh, I'm going to give up because my engagement is down.

No one's listening, no one's paying attention, so I'm quitting. Right? And have this, know, adverse reaction. I think it's really important to. When you do a launch, when you do a campaign, when you're, when you're just posting on social media regularly, is to evaluate like what you're [00:45:00] doing and actually look at if your views are down, you know. Look to what you are doing. Of course, like what could you be doing? Have you changed something with your thumbnails or your content or your hooks, or whatever that is. But also look at what's happening in the national conversation that could be affecting your business. Not to say, what was me, poor me. This is making it impossible for me to be successful, but so you can understand the landscape and react. One of the things this is. Not such like a negative like kind thing that happens for people, but like during Black Friday as an example, most businesses email open rates go down . Well, there was a major increase of emails that were sent across all platforms to everybody. Your email rates are going to be down, but likely your conversions will still be good. 'cause people are like prime to buy, right? ' cause it's Black Friday, there's Black Friday deals, [00:46:00] there's all of that going on. Um, so just realizing that. People have lots of things going on, and if your stuff isn't working, it might be an external thing that you have to learn how to navigate.

Michelle Pualani: Yeah. Yeah. And be okay with that. You know, there are ebbs and flows and seasons. So with everything that we've chatted about today, thinking about business model. Thinking about the type of lifestyle that you wanna be able to build into your brand and how you're presenting. Knowing that you can differentiate between the types of content that the types of business models create, and then of course, closing on that conversation and recognizing that you get to decide how you show up in your content and what you talk about when it comes to these national issues.

Anything political. You know, just navigating that landscape. I do remember, you know, when the whole BLM thing came out and the killing of George Floyd. George Floyd, yeah. Um, [00:47:00] really impacted this nation and the world at large. You know, um, anything in terms of like what's happened nationally with wars breaking out or.

Issues that we're experiencing, our culture is gonna be impacted, the digital space is gonna be impacted. Knowing that you can be cognizant of that, you can be aware of it. You can either choose to speak directly to it or not, but just understanding how your brand, how your ethos fits into that is I think such an important part of the conversation.

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