Episode 90: How to Release Music Independently (Tools, Strategy & Startup Insights)

Your song is done. The artwork is perfect. Now what? We sit down with Adriano and James, the creators of Release Assist, to unpack a smarter way to launch music without drowning in choices. Their goal-led approach replaces vague hopes with a clear plan: define what success looks like, connect your data sources, and align every touch point—timing, metadata, pitching, distributor strategy—to the audience you actually want.

What makes their vision refreshing is the mix of human guidance and practical tech. Think of it like lane assist for your release: forecasting the best window by genre and season, highlighting metadata fixes that help algorithms recognise your track, and nudging you toward consistent storytelling across platforms. They push back on the idea that ads are the only answer. Paid media can work, but real traction shows up when your visuals, captions and cadence speak to a listener’s values, not to “everyone.”

We also explore a bigger mission: cutting through opacity in music. From royalty confusion to shifting gatekeepers, too many decisions are hidden from the artists funding their own careers. Adriano and James want to give independents the same quality of tools labels use—and to build a community layer that connects artists with collaborators, sync routes and mentors without the usual gatekeeping. The long-term vision is bold yet practical: an operating system for independent music careers that starts at release day and expands outward.

If you’re tired of releasing into the void, this conversation will help you turn chaos into a plan you can execute. Subscribe for more practical music business insights, share this episode with a friend who’s about to drop a single, and leave a review to tell us what you want Release Assist to solve next.

https://www.releaseassist.com

Transcript

Welcome And Mission

Introducing Release Assist

The Platform’s Goal-Based Approach

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Hello, and welcome to the music business body with me, Johnny Amos, podcasting out of Birmingham in England. I am the author of the book, The Music Business for Music Creators, available in hardback, paperback, ebook format. I'm a music creator myself. I'm a consultant, an artist manager, and a senior lecturer in both music business and music creation. Wherever you are, whatever you do, consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of this community. My goal is simple to try and educate and inspire music creators from all over the world in their quest to achieve their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. Okay, so in this week's uh this week's episode, I'm excited, guys. I'm going to share with you uh the very, very early stages of a new company called Release Assist. Now, I was made aware of Release Assist, which are a new kind of tech startup. I was made aware of them by Jamie Sellers, the brilliant Jamie Sellers, who was my guest from episode 17. Now, release assist, just picture this, everybody. Okay, so you know, all the music's been made, the artwork is there, everything's perfect, everything's polished, and now you need to release the music. And you've got all of these amazing different options of marketing insights and reports here and all this kind of stuff, and hopefully this podcast that helps you a little bit as well. But it can be a little bit, I don't know, that's let's say overwhelming, right? There's a lot of different choices out there. Who do I distribute to? How do I push for playlists? All that kind of stuff. Now, I try and simplify a lot of that as best as I can, right? But what about if you actually just had one source, one go-to company that can assist your release, right? With humans behind it to help you along the way, right? That's what release assist is all about. And when Jamie told me about the company, I thought, wow, why has no one done that before? It's brilliant. So uh it's set up by two guys who I'm gonna interview today, and their names are Adriano and James, and they're both creatives and they're both very good technologists. Um, and they uh uh had the idea to set this up uh because of the feedback that they've had from other people. So they run a monthly network in night called Music Matters in London, and that there's been a lot of people that talk to them that say, hey, look, we just need help with you know assisting us on how we best release our music, you know. So James is one of these people that kind of takes very complex data and builds tools, right? He's been designing apps since he was a teenager. He's one of those kind of people, he's a creative as well, but he has an inane ability to be able to kind of take a lot of complex data, build them into tools that have a much more simple interface in order to help people to be able to release their music better. Adriano is a producer and a very successful one. He's had lots of credits on BBC, Netflix, all sorts of different places, and they have this kind of very helpful, um, approachable manner about them. And they are building something that I think has got real legs. So just think about a kind of all-in-one tool that can kind of do like AI-powered forecasting and figure out the best time uh to release in a certain genre, a particular kind of season or time of the year. Um, multi-platform insights, audience targeting, industry benchmarks, all in one place, right? So this is very, very, very early on. I I dare say, as a tech startup, they're probably going to get some investment at some point and build this thing even further. But right now they're in beta testing, which means they're working with artists at the very early stage to be able to figure out where their music sits best and then how to actually target the market for their music, right? And actually, not all of their answers sit in social media, um, and you know, and kind of doing stuff that artists don't always want to do, you know, having to be creative on TikTok and all that kind of stuff. That's perhaps a part of it, but it's not everything, right? It's also not all about meta advertising, it's about something that's unique to their platform that simplifies the process of releasing music. So I interviewed them today. I'm gonna share that with you now. See what you think, get a notepad, get a pen, get questions. Let me come back to me with the questions. I'll send them on to them if you like. This is early stages of their company and where they're at in their development, and it's an exciting time to talk to them. Release assist. Here's the interview. James Adriano, welcome to the music business, buddy. Uh, it's good to have you here. I've been hearing good things about both of you. Um uh, first of all, how are you both? Very well. Thank you for having us. Good. It's a pleasure made it, so feeling good. Oh, good, good, okay. That's that's always a bonus, James. Always a bonus. Um so there's there's much to discuss, and I am very excited about what you are what you're building, right? And and and I think the the role that it could play in in uh in the careers of many music creators. Um so so let's talk about it. You have cre you have created release assist, right? And could you just explain how it enables artists to become more informed of their release tactics?

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Yeah, so I mean, I'll let James go into the technical stuff for it because uh he's the guy behind it all. Um I'll let James go first and then I'll I'll talk about some other little more like conceptual stuff.

unknown 5:48

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

Oh uh so um so technically we uh we basically get um our artists to share a little bit about what they're looking to do for their their release. So they will set a goal with us and they'll go like, I want to reach a million streams uh on my next single. Um we then ask them to plug in our all of their like online basically presents so we can connect to things like their TikTok and their Spotify. Um we take all of that information um and then we put it through um a few different layers of of technical wizardry. Um and we have an algorithm and then an AI sprinkle because it's 2026 and you can't you can't start a business unless you've said AI at least 10 times. Um so I'm just got a little like marker just here, just go like AI tick, tick, and now it's all again tick. AI.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

I've never heard of that. What's that, James? AI.

Metadata, Education And Evidence

SPEAKER_03 6:43

How much time have we got? How much time have we got? Um yeah, and we we basically use all that information combined with um the information that we get from other artists that we use our platform and also just kind of general industry knowledge and like good good practice. Um, and we use that to basically um inform them of what they basically need to do in order to improve their successes and chances of success um in uh in their release.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Interesting. Wow, okay. Um thank you. That's a lot of good information. Um Adriana, was there anything you'd add to that?

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Yeah, I guess so um on a broader sense, it's uh artists obviously wander reach a certain amount of streams and like having a goal is great, but like if you if you are not measuring the goal and if you've not got like something, some sort of steps to actually reach it, then the goal is somewhat useless. So I guess what release assist is doing is allowing you to have a goal and then have it like a finish line and then have steps to to move towards it. And it's not about specifically streams, we're not saying we're promising you streams. What we're saying is we're gonna help you get closer to the goal that you said you want to achieve. So it's it's more like psychological.

SPEAKER_02 7:53

Okay. Um, there's many, many, many cool things about this. Uh, one of the things that first leaps to my mind um is the importance of goal setting. Um, because I think when you talk to a lot of music creators and you'll say, What what is the purpose of you releasing this single? And I asked that, and I asked that in a very healthy way to a lot of music creators, and I'll go, Well, just so as many people as possible can hear it. And I'll go, that's lovely, but it's a bit lofty and it's not quite specific enough. You know, is the goal to be able to go, right? We've got six singles that are going to roll into an album, or it it's this is just one single that I'm gonna test and get some analytics, and then that can further inform me of where I go next. Um, the importance of actually having a goal, presumably you need that in order for you to be able to make this work.

SPEAKER_04 8:42

Absolutely. And I think um inherently, like artists and creatives, the goal is to just make art, and we will do that every day, whether someone's gonna listen to it or not. Um, but when you like go into like data and analytics and statistics, it becomes like harder to really relate to that as a creative because honestly, who cares if you're an artist? But when you go into the music industry and you make a business out of your art, then you have to care. Like there's no ifs or buts about it, like you have to care. Uh so this is kind of connect because me and James are both creatives, we're connecting art to the industry in a way where artists are maybe a little, they feel a little bit of an ick about it, and we're just like, okay, look, this platform is going to help you really like transform the way that you view uh strategy and to data and statistics and hopefully improve the music economy for the better.

SPEAKER_02 9:33

Yeah, yeah, that that that makes a lot of sense. I think one of the things that, and you you two will be well aware of this, but the the grapple, I think, for some artists is um is is kind of like right here here's where I am as a person and I'm trying to be unique. Here I am as an artist, I'm trying to be unique. But it could perhaps be argued that the biggest gatekeepers in the industry in the the modern era uh are the algorithms, right? So, you know, if you've got to, I often say, you know, if you if you're gonna sell something, it's gotta go in a box, right? Um, and uh and and and I think sometimes I say that and it kind of rubs some artists up the wrong way. And I don't mean it to, um I just mean that the early stages of an artist's career, especially, um, it's important that they know where they sit in terms of their metadata, because if their metadata aligns with their goals, then that data can not only inform their approaches, but also you can take that data to future partners and go, this is where I'm at, this is what I've done. You know, is that a part of the goal here for artists to be able to kind of build data and understanding as to where they fit and then use that as evidence for future partners?

SPEAKER_03 10:38

Yeah, I I think I see that as as part of part of our goal. Um, our our platform's super new. Um, and so I think for every 10 wonderful ideas that are all thematically connected to what we're what we're trying to achieve, we've only built like one or two of them. Um but definitely I think at the moment, like we uh we help and educate artists, know and understand that like their metadata is important, how they and we're trying to teach them basically kind of connecting to what Adriano said, we're kind of going, you do the art, you let us tell you and inform you and educate you on how actually you need to make your art connect with the systems and structures that are put in place by the music industry and how you can best leverage them to get your art heard and get your art listened to more people and hopefully the right people as well.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

Um, so yeah, I think so. Yeah, I like that because there's an education lift to this as well for the artists. Yeah, you know. Um I I think uh well, one of the things that I often find when I talk to music creators is if I say what you know, what what's the career goal? You know, the answer is is very often to, you know, to make a living as a music creator. And I think that's a really, really, really good goal. Um, but it's also not unreasonable either.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Like people and musicians should be able to um be able to do that because there's enough money swelling around that that should be possible.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree. Yeah, I totally agree, James. Um the only trouble with that sometimes is where artists then need to go, oh, okay, so there's the business that attaches to my art. Uh, and that's where you guys come in, right? Is that is that I mean, how did the idea of setting this whole thing up, how did it come to you? Like, what was it that made you go, we need to build this?

Ads, Audience And Alternatives

SPEAKER_04 12:31

So um, James and I hosted networking events over the last couple of years where we, you know, we talked to hundreds of artists, uh, and there was a main theme around we love making art, we don't need more art creation tools, but it's you know really horrible to have to sit down and make TikToks and content for what reason? And that kind of always bubbled into the back of my mind. Uh, and I was um coming out of the gym one day and I was looking through the car park, and I love to tell the story, it's my favorite story, but um I tell it to everyone. Uh I was looking through the car park and all of these nice, really, really nice cars, and I was just like, how can everyone drive such nice cars but no one like has any extra like driving lessons? And it's because they have lane assists, they have like handbrake assists, they have reversing cameras and the cameras that you can see the top-down view of the car. Like, how the hell do they even do that? And I'm thinking that's how they protect their investment. They can spend so much more on cars, and they've got built-in systems to ensure that the investment's protected. Why don't we have that sort of thing in the music industry? Artists are spending thousands on their music, but they have no lane assist, they have no nothing that's going to keep them on a path to ensure that they're protecting the money they're put into their art. And so I told this idea to James, and um he was like, Yeah, this is something that we could actually build, right? Like this is something that has this is not just a stupid idea. So that's kind of where where it uh started.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Wow. What a wonderful analogy. Thank you. I love that. Um, I don't think ever I I've I've never heard it sort of explained in that way before, in terms of like, here's the kind of light bulb, you know, eureka moment. Um that's superb. I absolutely love that. Um and it makes a lot of sense um because uh, you know, uh there is that kind of goal of right, let's make the music, let's do this, let's do that. Now what? Oh, crikey, let's just fling it out and hope for the best. And you know, it doesn't always work that way, does it? Um that's really good. Okay. Um, so understanding um, you know, kind of engagement and insights into demographic, you know, they're all an important part of the process, let's say. What can actually be done, do you think, to kind of target a specific audience once it's actually been identified? Like is the answer in sort of meta advertising, is that part of the strategy, or is there something else to it?

SPEAKER_03 15:00

So I think um I think kind of looking at targeting your audience once you've kind of figured them out, is just making sure that like every single touch point of you of you as an artist, or like your content, your release timing, your plainest pitching, like the dis your like your distributor strategy, um, is is just everything is just speaking to that that uh person that you're going after, or that like persona of of um audience that you're going um after. Um we at the moment um help artists kind of get to that point. So we're we kind of nudge them and push them towards understanding all of those different things in the first place. Um specifically meta ads, we don't um we don't particularly advise on like specific creatives um or like the deep kind of like advertising is a whole nother like that could be a whole another company release or assist ads. I'll workshop that that was probably the worst thing I've ever come up with. Um I promise you I am a creative that do not come across. Um it's it's but it's it's something that's that's really interesting. And I think there's there's a there's a a surge of um other kind of like organizations and and consultants and creatives that are kind of consulting and advising musicians on uh the only way you could get your music heard is by leveraging ads. And uh so we're quite I think cautious to advise that sort of thing because uh that isn't that it can be true that you can use adverts to and deploy them to you know get your music heard by people, but it's not the only way. Um and I think we're just cautious of I think as we have said before, like it's it's education and it's informing people that yes, this is an option, but actually you've got 10 different options that you could leverage to try and get your stuff heard.

Community And The “Lane Assist” Analogy

SPEAKER_02 16:56

Is that kind of the right yeah, yeah, I like that. Yeah, and uh it's nice because it's kind of you know, I often wonder, and I'm not an expert in this particular subject of ads and mess for ads and stuff. I know a lot of people use them and they find them very effective, but I also know a lot of people and companies that are not using them as much as they used to. Um especially in terms of like uh, you know, you know, turnover into well, it kind of the the the uh the flip into fandom, let's say, um, as to what that actually looks like. You know, it's perhaps, you know, in the in in in a few years ago it was more effective sweeping statement, but you know, there could be some truth to that perhaps. What about um artists that um do you often get artists that kind of talk to you that say, you know, I really want to connect with my audience. Um, I don't really know who they are, and I don't feel uh authentic if I have to try and be silly on TikTok, for example. You know, um is that something that you come across?

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Yeah, I mean, so before release assist, um, I mean, I'm still a producer, my main thing is a producer, and like that's a conversation I have all the time with artists where I, you know, they put a camera up in the corner of the room to try and capture some of the session, and it they um immediately their mannerism changes because they're suddenly on camera, and that should be it shouldn't be like that. It should just be your capturing the real kind of moment, you know. So um sorry, I went on a tangent, I forgot your question. Repeat the question with me.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

Yeah, there's just that the idea of not you know, if artists are just not that comfortable with kind of you know going on camera, um having to follow certain crazes or feel like they have to follow certain crazes. You know, um, you know, is that any advice that you give to them for that?

SPEAKER_04 18:43

100%. Um your audience or your potential audience is gonna connect with the emotion and the values that you're putting in front of them. So uh obviously the goal is for them to listen to your music, but really nobody wakes up and thinks, I'm gonna go to TikTok to find a new artist. But they might really connect with the visual, they might connect with the words. Ultimately, they're gonna connect with the aesthetic of what you're putting on your video before they actually listen to the music. So if you're trying to sell music, someone who's in my experience, someone who's um scrolling TikTok, as soon as they see a caption which says, I'm a new musician, please go stream, it's just it's like I don't care. Like I'm gonna scroll. But if they say my music is about rainbows and daisies, if you love rainbows and daisies, go to listen to my music, then whoever loves rainbows and daisies is already sold to that. And um I'm sold. Well, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And uh it doesn't even matter whether you're selling music or whatever it is. Rainbows and daisies. Exactly. So it I think it's about broadening the scope of the type of person. Like if you if you want to be specific about the type of person that you want to listen to your music, then figure out exactly what it is that you're offering uh beyond the music, and uh hopefully the people who connect with you will flock to you.

SPEAKER_02 20:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense. It's interesting because hearing you talk here about guys, it's like it's it's like it feels like um kind of like a hybrid between AR and marketing. You know, there's the kind of um there's the sort of the pre-production and the post-production, if you will. So the kind of the ideas of right, let's get the goals in place, pre-production stuff, you know, what are the things that align with what you're doing? Okay, now let's go and then let's have a look at the data. And I think that that's a really, really good approach. I um it makes how how would you um I know it's early days and it's probably maybe it's unfair to ask this, so feel free to disregard this question if you wish. But what do you want next with this? Like what how how would you like to see the platform develop moving forward beyond where you're at right now, which is a really exciting beginning, into kind of, you know, let's say three years, five years from now. I know it's kind of impossible to guess what things are gonna look like then. But do you have ideas as to how you want to branch it out further?

Vision: OS For Independent Careers

SPEAKER_04 21:04

Oh yeah, we have many, many ideas. I mean, I guess for context, right now we're in beta, so we're asking people to come on board, try out the platform, give us feedback, tell us what they like about it, what they don't like about it. Um, moving forward, the idea would be as soon as you think I want to release a song, you think, okay, let me go to my release assistant or my release assistant account and see where I'm standing with my data right now and what I need to do to improve that. Um and I think it's kind of I dream of it being somewhat as second nature as DistroKid, where you go to DistroKid to release your song or whatever distributor you have, and it's just something that becomes part of the course. And um moving forward, uh I guess a B2B offering where like teams of people can look over uh like a roster of artists where they can oversee strategies and then also kind of implement strategies that they're doing manually as well. As having our platform implementing strategies for them.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

So um, but that's just like two ideas of many, many I think another one other thing that we've been thinking about a lot is kind of the community layer and the kind of the joining of the dots more like emphatically um with like our platform and like partners that we create. Um so that that could be like connecting artists with like other collaborators, like other like producers, like these are like I know, sync opportunities, industry contacts, like whatever that kind of looks like, um, in ways that kind of feel organic, not like transactional. Um, because the whole music industry just entirely runs on relationships, and those relationships are completely gated behind um who you know, and um perhaps an entity that um doesn't want to give them to you unless you sign a very long contract that maybe tells you you can do or not do certain things, not naming what they could be are, what they are in particular. Um, and ultimately, like we want to be democratizing that access. And I think, yeah, our vision for release assist is to almost be like, I guess, the operating system for like an art an independent artist's career in a way. Yeah. Um and yeah, not just the release day, but everything around it, I think.

SPEAKER_04 23:17

Yeah, and I think a massive part of it is obviously we mentioned it many times, like the whole gatekeeping aspect of the music industry. And we hear a lot of people saying we don't want gatekeeping. Yes, I completely 100% agree. But maybe the solution isn't to remove the gate. Maybe the solution is to realize that you are, as an artist, you are the key to the gate. And without you, there is no point for the gate. And if you can understand your value and you can understand how your potential and your art has power to unlock gates that you didn't even know you could unlock, then you're somehow like unstoppable.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Oh, that's very quotable. I like that. Oh, that's very good. Um, just going back to uh the idea you mentioned, James, about the community side of things. Do you guys see that as like um, you know, do you do you have our ideas to kind of set up events to bring people together and that kind of thing? Or is it the community more kind of uh an online community going forward? Do you or is it a bit of both? Because I I really like that aspect of it of people, because it can feel like solitary confinement for a lot of artists, can't it? Like, I'm on my own, and actually it's really nice to kind of have that community, that support.

SPEAKER_03 24:29

Both, I think. Like as as we said at the beginning, me and Adriano, um, we we the first thing we did together was was run events and create community because um it was something that that we wanted to kind of foster because we both love the music industry and also uh I hopefully I haven't can speak correctly on behalf of Adriano, but also we both deeply wanted to change so that it works for more people. Um and yeah, creation of community I think is always the first step because it's kind of building consensus around your idea to facilitate that change. Um, we were actually talking, I think literally like yesterday or the other day, going like, we need to run another, we need to run another event um because we've been doing so much uh of this that we um yeah haven't managed to find the time to put on a an in-person event. But online stuff's interesting. I don't we honestly haven't talked about it that much as in like building an online community, as in like I don't know, a virtual networking event or like whatever that that is. So um, but I think both for sure in the future.

Founders’ Backstories

SPEAKER_02 25:32

Yeah, that that that makes sense. I mean it's something that you're already doing and making work. So it's uh yeah, it's a continuation of it. Yeah, I like that. Okay. Um, so may I ask you both about yourself? I know a little bit about you both, but um um, and I've heard great things about you both from our good mutual friend Jamie Sellers, right? Um Jamie. Shout out to Jamie, everybody loves Jamie, don't they? He's brilliant. Um could you tell us, just for the benefit of the audience, would you mind telling us a little bit about your yourselves? Um, Adriana, I should come to you first.

SPEAKER_04 26:07

Yeah, so um, I mean, how far back do we want to go? Uh I started um music when I was I started playing piano at nine, I picked up guitar when I was 15, and I went to actually to study music performance at college. And then I went to ICMP to do uh creative musicianship um with the intention of being an artist, actually. Um, but I really fell in love with production. Um and I realized if I want to make music every day, well, I realized that I do want to make music every day, and that means I have to make money out of music. So um I started producing for people. Um and I don't know if I should say this, but actually um at uni I was doing everyone else's um coursework because nobody enjoyed production as much as me, so they were paying me to do their coursework. Uh and that actually helped me open my first studio with my friend Lewis. Um, he then so we had a studio for two or three years together. He moved up to uh northwest London. I stayed in East London, and that's just kind of how I've continued. I've now got this studio that I run on my own, and I'm here six or seven days a week, really.

SPEAKER_02 27:12

Wow, good for you. Well done for making that all work. Well we're trying still. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's uh yeah, every day's a gamble, isn't it? But that's you know, well, well, well done. That's uh that's super. Wow, so you're you're kind of producing in a range of different styles and you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

So I mean I'm open to all styles. I think um naturally I've fallen into RB because I have a quite a jazzy kind of ear. Um my actually my tutors at college were very jazz influenced as well, so that's just really influenced what I'm doing now. But I do a lot of pop. I I was in an indie rock band for five years as well, so like I'm not limiting myself to RB, but I think the market is actually, if anything.

SPEAKER_02 27:51

Yeah, okay, yeah, that that that makes sense. Okay. Um and James, what about your good self?

SPEAKER_03 27:58

Um, my background is is mixed. Um, so I uh at senior school um uh I used to develop iPhone apps and I also studied music alongside that. Um those that know me wouldn't believe that I was actually a really, really quiet kid for a period during my senior school years, um, which will come as a shock. I can hear the gasps from my friends who are hearing the what feels like a lie from miles away. Um yeah, when my when my voice broke, um so I started getting super into tech and yeah, developed iPhone apps as a teenager. Um then once my voice had settled down, I took up singing um again. Shut up. Uh I took up singing again, um, and then studied music, went all the way through you need to do um music technology. Um so I kind of was combining the the two loves of of my life, which are music and tech. Um and yeah, then from from there took a little interlude, worked for Apple for a little bit, um, all the whilst and kind of music took a took a backseat. And then it was kind of the realization a couple of years ago um that I was like, what am I doing? Like, why am I doing anything to do with music given that I studied it for so many years? Um, and then um yeah, started uh doing music again. So I'm a choir leader for um uh a pop choir called Some Voices, the fun kind, not the boring kind that I think sometimes choirs have a reputation of being. Um and yeah, I'm also a vocal coach, and then yeah, have been been dabbling in all kinds of like tech nurdery little ideas for for forever. Um, and then Adriana was just someone that literally just ran at me with an idea that I was like, I can build it, let me do it. And yeah, the rest is history, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 29:54

Wow, brilliant. Okay, so you both come at this from a very musical place, but also um a very technology-driven place. Um one of the interesting things as well about about where you're at and your idea is that it is informed through very kind of uh useful market research, right? You're on the ground, you talk to a lot of people, and presumably done some basic pattern recognition in problems, right? And therefore the need, um, which is which is why I think you'll you know do very well with release assist. I think it's really, really exciting. Thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah, no, I know it's great, I love it. Um, okay, let me ask you a little bit about the music business, right? Before we before we finish, I I I want to ask you about what you would um, you know, if we were to kind of like leap ahead a few years from now, uh, you wanted to kind of change something about the music business, what would it be?

Fixing Opacity And Accountability

SPEAKER_03 30:48

The opacity. I think I think the music industry has, and we Saka, we've said this before, right? I think the music industry has has typically survived on keeping artists in the dark about how their royalties work, how decisions get made, who who owns what. Um and I think the streaming streaming was supposed to uh democratize things, I think. Uh but I think it's instead just made different gatekeepers. Um because like we all know that, for example, like we can all say Spotify pays badly um per stream, but we don't know how much they pay per stream. And then we can go, like, well, how much does Apple Music pay? And how much does Deezer pay? And how much like people still don't know how how their money uh how much they're gonna make out of music and also how any of those decisions were made. And they're just kind of they're they're not party to them, but they're forced to partake in it. Um and so I I want to see the power dynamic uh change for uh especially independent artists so that it doesn't feel so uneven anymore. Um because ultimately I think we music is storytelling, right? And I think we hear a lot from the same storytellers over and over again. And I think the music industry and people, and you're not without trying to sound too like existential, but humanity deserves to hear more stories from diverse and interesting voices that you typically don't get to hear because of how the music industry is structured. Um, and that means that means everyone. Um no one wants to hear from another boy band that Simon Cowl has put together. Sorry, sorry, Simon. Um please work with us, but uh but maybe work with us to find a different voice that aren't the same ones that you keep picking every fifth every 10-15 years, you know?

SPEAKER_02 32:52

Yeah, good point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:53

I like that. I like that. I I echo that. Um I had a conversation recently with a manager who we kind of struck an idea where when you used to buy a uh a vinyl, it would have a sticker on it and it was literally the record label, right? And you and he was saying that his dad would see the label name and buy the album because he trusted the label. Because the labels used to use gatekeeping in a good way where good artists would be signed because they could sing songs that were good. Um that is true still, but there's also an element of untruthfulness nowadays with that. Uh the labels aren't really being held accountable for the artists that they sign anymore because um it's all about money. Um I think if we can make one massive change, it would be holding labels accountable for the artists that they're putting all this money behind, risking the I mean, importantly, risking the artists' mental health. I mean, we see now like artists are being absolutely worked to the bone, and the labels aren't being held accountable for that. Uh yes, like these artists are getting loads of success, but it doesn't like correlate, like you're not gonna risk your health for money, like that's just not right. So I think if we could see the business move to a place where labels can be held more accountable for the the artist's health and the quality of the art and the quality of the artist's life, we can see an overall better artist economy. That's what I believe, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Interesting. Okay, I like it. Yeah, there's some good values here and some good ideas that are all uh perfectly uh attach themselves to the mission of what release assist is all about, right? Um, if we're talking about fairness, surely one of the solutions to fairness is to be able to give artists the same tools that labels have got, right? Which is which is what you're doing. Um I can see uh huge growth for you in terms of strategic partnerships, definitely on a B2B level as well, Adriano. I definitely see where you're coming from there. And and and most certainly in uh educating and empowering uh you know uh emerging artists. I think it's great, I really do. Um I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Can I add one extra thing?

SPEAKER_02 34:58

Please.

SPEAKER_03 34:59

Which is just something the the most the most joyous part of like building this with Adriano is is that we aligned on our values first, and we kind of already knew that already before we then started to try and try and build it. And one thing that has always been really, really joyful, and it gives me a lot of hope and happiness for however this is, you know, however it's gonna go, and I I hope and believe that it's gonna go really well, um, is that we we regularly, as part of like discussing new features or the direction that we want to go, we always orient it around the values that we both hold together, and like the the the mission is kind of like everyone when you talk about a company mission, they always mean like we're gonna do this because it's gonna be really great for this. And it's like, well, actually, I think mine and Adriano's mission is a little bit deeper and more more personal, and it's really nice to channel that into something that feels like it's gonna productively do something. Um and it's just this would basically be me saying that I love Adriano and so but just just just framing it around, just framing it around our business, really. But yeah.

Values, Partnerships And Next Steps

SPEAKER_04 36:07

100%. And I think um seeing people, I mean, seeing ourselves make something because we are artists and we care about artists is so it's for me, I I think it's refreshing because you know, all these like money-making platforms for artists are built by industry people who maybe they're not as connected to art in in the same way that we are. Uh, that might be a bit of an overstatement. I don't know, but in my experience, I connect so much more with the artist side of music rather than the the business side of music. And I take this as a I'm very, very grateful and very blessed to have this platform, even just like talking on this podcast, is something that I wouldn't have imagined um a year ago. So yeah, it's uh it's great to be in this world.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Good for you, good for both of you. That's super. Um, I think there's going to be a lot of people that they're listening to you right now and and and are nodding along, going, Yeah, those guys are right. Like that that's what we need going forward, you know. Um, and it's not like you're asking for for the earth, you're just asking for balance. Um, and and and I think that's a fair request. Um, I've already started to see some of the signs of that starting to happen um, you know, since the turn of the decade, perhaps. But you know, there's a little bit further to go, yeah, isn't there? Which is which is so uh so yeah, good for you. I really appreciate you coming on and talking to me and sharing your idea. You know, when when uh when Jamie told me about you two and what you're up to, and uh I thought, oh, let's let's talk early before this all blows up and you know, and and uh and it goes uh really, really well, and uh and you'll be super busy. Um I mean you're already busy people, right? You're already very busy, successful music industry professionals and whatnot.

SPEAKER_04 37:49

But um I'm glad you think that that's good.

SPEAKER_02 37:51

Um the actor's working. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

I'm just gonna take a clip of this moment, yeah, and you're gonna see.

SPEAKER_02 37:58

Well, that's one of the things LinkedIn. That's one of the great things I like about the podcast is it's almost like little time capsules um in in in people's careers, and you know, and uh, you know, it's the uh it's like a great grabbing a moment, isn't it? And going, right, let's look at that again in a few years. Because right now it is so exciting. So uh congratulations to both of you. I wish you just love and luck with it all. Um I I I don't think you need it, I think you'll be fine, but you know, you got my full speed. We'll take it. We'll take it. I hope you're right, I really do.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Yeah, yeah.

Host Wrap-Up And Takeaways

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Good for you guys. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You take it, you take it. Um, yeah, thank you both so much. Uh I really, really appreciate it. Thank you very much for having us. Okay, there you have it, everybody. Uh, good guys, right? Doing something for the right reasons. Um, I think that they really believe in what they're doing. I believe in what they're doing, I think they're going to do well with this. Um, I think there's going to be other stages to the development in terms of the offering, right? And and and what the price point looks like. It's got to be the right price point, right, for this to work. They know that. Um, but I think they've got something which actually helps people. And that's what this is all about. They talked in the interview, didn't they, about removing gatekeepers. Uh that's something that um a lot of people are talking about, right? Um there's, I mean, you could argue that gatekeepers are not just people, they're also algorithms. But I think sometimes knowing where to start in terms of how to target that audience, what does my audience actually what are they into? What would support their interests that align with my music and my goals, all that kind of stuff? That can be the thing that's very, very difficult to get right. And I think those two are brilliant at it. So I'm glad that they've started that. Um, I wish them all the luck in the world going forward, as I do to you as well. Thank you for being here. Thank you for being a part of this community. Until next time, everybody, may the force be with you.