Episode 91: How to Become a Session Drummer (Real Career Path with Collette Williams)

The path from rehearsal room to global stages is rarely straight, and Collette Williams shows how grit, honesty, and community can bend the line in your favour. I sit down with the session drummer and multi-instrumentalist to unpack the craft behind TV appearances, the leap from drum tech to the Blossoms live setup, and the mindset that turns fear into fuel when the brief suddenly changes.

Collette opens the door on the contrast between mimed TV performances and fully live broadcasts: the glued hi-hats, the choreography of movement, the pressure of one-take camera cuts, and the pure rush of playing Later… with Jools Holland while your heroes watch from the balcony. Then we trace the moment networking met readiness: a chance meeting with Blossoms’ tour manager led to drum tech gigs at Reading and Leeds, a seat on percussion and backing vocals, and finally a bold shift to acoustic guitar and keys when the new album demanded it. She didn’t posture—she negotiated for support, practised with intent, and walked on at Gunnersbury Park in front of 50,000.

We also rewind to Rews, the heavy-rock duo that became the first signing to Marshall Records. The secret wasn’t hype; it was relentless touring, authentic conversations at the merch desk, and a fan-first approach that attracted management, booking power, and a label partnership. Along the way, Colette shares clear, hard-won lessons for music creators about networking that sticks, artist development, session etiquette, and building a patchwork career that includes teaching and side hustles without losing artistic momentum.

Her most personal chapter challenges a stubborn industry myth. Performing at seven months pregnant, her waters broke mid-show; plans changed, but the mission didn’t. Visibility can be a conversation as much as a spotlight. With candour and warmth, Colette shows how to balance touring and parenting with supportive teams, flexible logistics, and a focus on what matters most: presence over perfection.

If you found value in this story, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs the nudge, and leave a review so more creators can find it.

Transcript

Colette’s CV And Big-Stage Credits

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Hello, and welcome to the music business buddy. With me, Johnny Amos, podcasting out of Birmingham in England. I'm the author of the book, The Music Business for Music Creators. I'm a music producer, a consultant, an artist manager, and a senior lecturer in both music business and music creation. Wherever you are, whatever you do, consider yourself welcome to this podcast and to a part of the community around it. I'm here to try and educate and inspire music creators from anywhere in the world in their quest to achieving their goals by gaining a greater understanding of the business of music. Okay, so in this week's episode, I am joined by session musician Colette Williams. Now, Colette is a fine example of a music industry professional, fine example of a human being, and actually somebody that I've been trying to get on the podcast for quite a while. She's a busy lady, right? But she's here, I've finally interviewed her, and that is what this week's episode focuses on. Now, a little bit about Colette. So she's a session musician, she's a drummer, right? And she's uh she's been doing it for a while. She's very experienced, she's performed for some of the biggest artists and biggest labels in the world. Um, she's also uh she was also a part of Ruse. For anybody that's familiar with Ruse, Ruse were a duo, a very, very um, very cool duo uh that were the first act ever signed to Marshall Records. Um so the Ruse kind of saw Colette touring all over the world, right? China, USA, all around Europe. Um, she's been on the stage at Glastonbury, she's played with all sorts of different people. If there's anybody out there that's a fan of the indie band uh Blossoms, you'll know Colette, right? Because she's often seen on stage with blossoms, uh, playing guitar, playing keys, playing percussion. She'll tell you all about that story. I'll also be asking her about you know her journey into what she's now become and what that started like, you know, for how she went from like being a student into kind of like getting work and becoming a professional, what that path looked like as well. It's all in this week's interview, and I'm gonna play it now. Colette, welcome to the music business, buddy. Hello, it's good to have you here. How are you?

SPEAKER_03 2:35

I am very well, thank you. It is a privilege and an honour to be here with your wonderful self. How are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Oh, thank you, Colette. Oh, very well, thank you. And because, you know, you and I have known each other for a few years, right? Um, and so I I I I know more than a thing or two about your career. Um, and uh for ages now I've always thought, you know, I've interviewed you before, Colette, right? But you know, not on this podcast, but elsewhere, right? Uh and I've always thought, God, Colette would be such a great guest on the podcast. And so, you know, you were in a room near me the other day, and I said, Colette, how would you feel about coming on the podcast? And uh thankfully you said yes, and here we are.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Absolutely. It was one of those Carpe DM moments, wasn't it?

TV Sessions Versus Live Performance

SPEAKER_00 3:15

It was, it was, and I'm I'm I'm thrilled. So thank you for uh thank you for joining me. Um so Colette, there's a lot of different subjects. I've tried to kind of think about some of the things that um some of the many things that you do, right? But it kind of makes sense to start with your work um, you know, as a session drummer, right? Because you are known to many people in the music industry as a drummer and you work with some of the world's biggest artists and labels. Um may I ask you about what TV session work is like compared to kind of live session work, life on the road?

SPEAKER_03 3:49

Absolutely. So uh one of the most recent things that I was um lucky enough to do last year was later with Jules Holland. Um, and that was working with um a band called Blossoms, and for me that had been pretty much number one on my bucket list of um sort of career opportunities and goals and things I wanted to achieve. So when I heard that that was coming in, I was absolutely over the moon. Um, I'd grown up watching the show, I'd found a lot of really inspiring bands and artists um along the way on that show in the Hootonani. So it really did have quite a big place in my kind of musical upbringing. Um, so when I found out we were doing that, I was absolutely um right in the middle of super fearful because it was such a huge opportunity and over the moon excited. Um, so when it came to the filming for it, I had so many different emotions flowing because I was actually quite unwell at the time. Um, I had a virus, um, like a bad cold or something that I just hadn't managed to shift. And whenever you know you've got a performance of that type, um there's something in your mind that just kind of elevates the um the pressure of it, I think. So I had that kind of added pressure of like I have to do a good job here. You know, I'm among amongst all of these incredible artists and bands who I've looked up to for years, um, and I just can't drop the ball. So that was kind of going on in my head at the time. And sometimes when you do TV performances, they're mind or like pre-records, this was completely and utterly live, as you would expect it to be, you know, for for Jules Holland caliber. Um so I remember kind of setting up in in the round, uh, in this kind of beautiful space and seeing some of the other artists that were on the show, um, Roger Taylor being one of them. And I just had one of those moments of like, how is this my life? Um just gobsmacked. And you in that instance, you actually get to watch all of the performances being recorded and taking place, and then you know, it comes your turn. Um and I just watched these incredible artists and felt really inspired in that moment. So I think it it really helped. Um, because by the time they got around, you know, to me, I was like, wow, this is such a privilege. Let's, you know, let's kind of show them what we've got. Um, so the performance itself was just really exhilarating. And I remember looking up to the balcony space where uh they had a live audience as well while we were filming, and Roger Taylor had done his um his part, his song, and actually gone and sat in the audience on the balcony to watch the remainder of the performances. And I remember sort of midway through my part just looking up and being like, Oh my gosh, Roger Taylor is just sat up there watching us. Um, and it was just out of this world. Um yeah, and it was every part as wonderful as I hoped and expected it would be. Uh, so that that will be memory that stays with me, I think, forever. You know, I feel like that, you know, that's something you tick off the list, and it was kind of like, right, I can die happy after this moment now.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Actually, that's really interesting because that is like a perfect hybrid of both, right? TV session work and live playing. Because um, as you know far more than me, that sometimes TV session work can be like stunt work, right? Where you kind of have to play along with a record, and that's part of the art form. And and and and that's not in any way to belittle it, because if anything, you've got to play it absolutely perfect, even if it's not being played, played. Especially for a drummer though, right? I mean, that must be you can't play anything wrong with that.

SPEAKER_03 7:51

Yeah, and it weirdly, sometimes I find those scenarios harder because, like you say, you are you you're almost playing a character or like a role in that moment that isn't really the job that you usually do. Um, and I have done some TV work before where uh it was mime work, so exactly as you say, playing along to the track and the vocals were live, whereas the instrumentation was pre-recorded. Um and uh I'm gonna give all the way the away the uh magic of TV now, but on a drum kit, uh the hi-hats are literally glued together so um you know that they are really dead so that when you hit them they don't really transmit any audible sound, which is the strangest thing because they don't feel or respond in the way that you're used to. So everything's kind of like dead and uh and just absorbs the hits. So you have to almost change the physicality of how you play and how you move around the kit, um, which is quite jarring, especially when you haven't had the chance to practice that. Um, so the first few bits of TV work that I did, um, yeah, that it was quite jarring. And I remember thinking in that moment, right, you've really got to perform and almost act like a drummer, even though you are, you know, you're trying to adopt this character of like, okay, what would it look like if I was pretending that I was a drummer? Um, and and yeah, it's like a whole different ball game. And in that moment, you realise that there's less pressure on how you sound, but perhaps more pressure on how you look in that moment and in that part. Um, so for me, it leads me to to really think and and view the performance in a different way. Um, because I'm thinking about how I look, how I move around the kit, maybe even um slightly over-emphasising um emotions and reactions in that moment and what my face is doing, and maybe over egging some of the hits. Um and and yeah, it it's just like a completely different ball game, um, but really enjoyable at the same time, but for different reasons.

The Realities Of Mimed TV Drums

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah, yeah. Oh god, yeah, absolutely. Well, you're a rock star, you can pull it off, Killeth. Um Do you know? Uh it's funny you mentioned Jules Holland before. I obviously I'm wrong about this, right? But I I thought you played Jules Holland with uh Shakespeare's sister.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

Uh that was the Graeme Norton show.

SPEAKER_00 10:11

Oh, okay, okay. Yeah, yeah. So when I was wrong, I was I was right that I was wrong. Uh yeah, right act, wrong show, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Well, yeah, that was the Graeme Norton show. Um yeah, that was a really fun performance as well. And again, it it because it was because it was um, you know, an act that had sort of come back um and had sort of evolved, I guess, over over the years and and were maybe more of like a heritage heritage act now. Um it was it was strange for me because I remember that song vividly because of the music video. Um and I remember it being quite scary actually from when I was a child and thinking, wow, this is this video is is you know it's quite scary, it's quite dark. Um, but the song itself is really impactful. So when I got the call to um to go and do that show with them, it was like, oh wow, that's that's like really exciting. Um and we when I told my mum about it, she was like, no way. And it's kind of one of those, one of those um opportunities where you know you tell your family and they're like, Oh yeah, I loved them, and you know, they're excited on your behalf for you because they know what it means and they've got that like context.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Um so so yeah, that that was really incredible. And again, because they were doing live vocals, the vocals were just as good as I remembered them, you know, in that video on the track. Um and you're kind of sitting there playing and thinking, right, I should be focused on the drums, but you're like, whoa, that note, and then you're like, Oh, you know, I'm doing a job here, back to it.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 11:50

So you have to kind of not get distracted in that moment just by um, yeah, by the incredible performances.

Big TV Moments: Graham Norton

Joining Blossoms Through Networking

SPEAKER_00 11:56

God, that's interesting. Okay, yeah. Yeah, I suppose as well with TV, you've got so many cameras around you. You know that there's gonna be stuff where they're shooting you personally the whole time, and you know that they're gonna panty you when there's like, I don't know, a drum fill, or when there's this moment or that moment or whatever. Um wow, that's a whole other art form, isn't it? Um you you mentioned uh blossoms earlier. I'd love to ask you about about your work with blossoms, uh, because you you're gonna be known to a lot of the fans of indie band blossoms, right? You know, they'd be like, oh, that's Gollette. Wow, cool, okay. Um so your your role with blossoms has been pretty varied, right? Could could you tell us a little bit about how that relationship started and then what it kind of evolved into?

From Drum Tech To Onstage Musician

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Yeah, um, so for me, this is kind of a a prime example of the of why networking is important in the music industry. Um I was in another band at the time and I was playing at the Great Escape, and uh a friend of mine had come along um and introduced me to a friend of theirs who happened to be the tour manager for Blossoms. So um we got chatting, and I was um I was coming up to a period where I was quite free. I can't remember if it was over a summer, and I remember um their tour manager briefly mentioning that they'd be on the lookout for a drum tech for Joe, um, the drummer from Blossoms, and had asked if I might be free and if I would be interested. And at the time I'd done a little bit of drum teching for um friends and a couple of other acts. Um and it's something that I kind of fell into really. I've always been quite a big drum nerd when it comes to to gear and equipment. Um so it's something that has always interested me. And I think the way I would explain it as well is it's like having an opportunity to get involved, um, really understand the nuts and bolts of another band or artist without maybe having the opportunity to play for them. Um, or maybe even working with an artist of another genre that you don't play, um, and being able to see all the intricacies and being able to help them with their equipment. Um so so yeah, I I I was aware of Blossoms, I knew their music very well. Um, and yeah, when they said, you know, this opportunity's coming up, I was like, that sounds really exciting, and I think it would be really fun. Uh so that's how it came about, and some of my first shows with them were festival shows, uh, Reading and Leeds. So, you know, pretty, pretty big shows, quite high pressure for me, jumping in, working with a band that I hadn't worked with before, um, you know, with equipment that I hadn't worked with before with them. So it was really an um a case of getting familiar with uh the drum kit that he was playing, uh with triggers, any kind of um sort of playback systems as well, and and then being sort of thrust into the show to to look after and support this drummer. And it was really fun, everyone was super welcoming, a real kind of family network um with blossoms. So I felt straight away at home um with everyone, and they were really helpful. So if there was things that I didn't yet know, or I was like, Oh, you know, how does this usually go? Everyone was really friendly and and um quick to kind of provide me with answers and support. So straight from day one, it just felt like a really lovely place to be. Um so yeah, I did that that festival season with them as Joe's drum tech, and quite quickly they mentioned they were they were looking to expand the live show and bring on um you know another session musician, and specifically what they wanted covered was percussion and backing vocals. And we'd had a few conversations at this point. They knew I was a drummer too, and I sang, and they asked if I would be interested in kind of shifting roles, um, which you know I was absolutely over the moon with because predominantly I do see myself as a player first. Yeah, um, the rest of it's just kind of like a cherry on the cake. So so yeah, I was absolutely over the moon. Um, and I then switched roles and I started playing percussion and doing back and vocals for the live shows. Uh initially I was still looking after Joe as well, so it was kind of like you know, one eye on the play and one eye on is everything okay over there? Is your drum kit all good? You know, do you need a a new skin on there? And um, which as you can imagine, quite quickly the logistics of that get quite difficult, um, unless you're like a human octopus. So um, so yeah, so I I was looking after Joe for a little while, and then we had like a bit of a rotation where we had another drum tech come on board um to sort of fully take that that place. Um, but another great thing about Blossoms and all of their crew is there are so many multi-talented individuals there who can jump on different instruments. Um, you know, if something goes wrong or if someone's ill, it's like, don't worry, I've got guitar duties, I know the parts for that. And like a lot of backline texts do, you become very familiar with your instrumentalist that you're looking after, the parts they play, the way they approach it. Um, and you are kind of like their their shadow in a way. Um, so yeah, so that was really useful. And and that's how I kind of stepped into to playing with them um down that pathway.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

Wow, okay. Okay, so you go from you know, reliable, brilliant drum tech into can you play? Uh yes you can, can you sing, yes you can. Um, but I'm just just thinking for the benefit of those that might be listening to this going, yeah, but we've seen you playing guitar for them as well. Um like what what happened after that? Because you mean you're around people in the band that are like, you know, multi-instrumentalists and you know extremely accomplished at what they can all do, as you say, individually as well as collectively. But then you then step into the role of playing other stuff for them as well. Is that right?

Switching To Guitar And Keys

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Yeah, yeah. So um so that was actually born out of um musical direction, really, because um uh blossoms are really creative and explorative when it comes to what should be on the recordings and the albums. And I'd actually had uh a little bit of time off on maternity leave in between um their albums. And when I came back to work with them, uh they'd just written and completed a new album, and there was less percussion parts um or less call for there to be live percussion, really. So they'd layered a lot more acoustic guitar parts and more keys on um the latest album. So they asked me if I would be comfortable maybe switching instruments and doing more on the guitar and keys side live. Um at the time I'd dabbled in these instruments, but I wouldn't say I played them, not competently. Um so it kind of struck fear into my heart at that point because I was like, oh my gosh, I don't really know these instruments well. Um, and I don't know if it would be right of me to say, uh, yeah, sure, I'll give it a crack. Um and equally I was like, oh, but I I I don't want to lose my my job or my place with them. No, no. Um because you know, the nature of being a session musician, you are not formally part of the band, you know, you are sort of those extra services. And really my job is to provide musically what the band needs. And you know, if that means that my part of my instrument isn't required anymore, then that's how it goes. So I did really, really want to stay working with them. Um, so I was trying to walk this fine line of being authentic and honest about my skill set, um, but still having that opportunity. And I just said, look, I'm gonna be really straight with you. They're not really two instruments that I'm massively competent with, but if you are willing to support me with learning those parts um and kind of help me through, then I'm more than willing to do that and sort of switch roles. And they were like, Yeah, absolutely, you know, we're not expecting you to be a virtuoso. Um, a lot of the parts were kind of chordal support, as I said, acoustic guitar. Um, and they were like, we can absolutely kind of you know show you the direction we want or give you support with that, um, which I was really, really happy about. Um, so I spent a lot of time perfecting the parts, getting more uh comfortable with the instruments, and my first show back with them was actually at Gunnersbury Park supporting Tom Grennan. Um, so no pressure. I think I think it was about 50,000 people, so it was a mind-blowing amount of people. And it was one of those moments where you're like, I've got two options here, I either crash and burn in front of a lot of people, or I go up there and smash this. And there's only really one option, isn't there? So um I, you know, I can remember that vividly, standing on stage and feeling really out of my comfort zone because I was stood with an instrument that I don't usually play. Um, I'm usually behind this huge monstrosity of percussion and quite hidden, which I love. Um, and I was there quite stark with this guitar, thinking, okay, here we go. Um so yeah, it was a real leap of faith for all parts and and everyone involved. And um I'd I'd hope and like to say that you know I did a good enough job. I mean, I'm still here. So um, yeah, so it it really it was really wonderful that they had that faith and trust in me. Um, and vice versa, that I knew that they kind of, you know. Believed in my skills really. Um, so yeah, it was it was a really wonderful opportunity. So I do currently play guitar and keys for them, um, back in vocals, a little bit of percussion still comes in from time to time. Um, but yeah, it's a bit like a a musical revolving door, ultimately.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Wow, okay. So if we see you, you know, later in this year or next year on stage with blossoms playing saxophone, um, you know, with symbols between your knees, then we'll know why. We're like, she's done it again. There's no I'm going for the full sweep.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Yeah. The fun orchestra.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

I'll tell you what though, Clay, good for you though, because you, you know, you were in a spot there, right, where you could have gone, you know what, that that's just a little bit beyond where I want to be here. Or, you know, I suggest you work with somebody else, and I'm sure that they would have thought nothing less of you, right? But it it speaks volumes about you that you didn't and that you embraced that and now it's a part of your portfolio forever, you know. Good for you.

Growth Mindset And Accountability

Performing While Pregnant

SPEAKER_03 23:00

It was one of those catalyst moments for me where you know it's two instruments that I've really always wanted to have a reason to be better at. And sometimes you just need to flip the accountability because sometimes having that accountability with yourself and just saying, Oh, you know, I want to learn that instrument isn't enough. When there's a deadline and someone else asking something of you, it's like, right, okay, I need to do this because you know there is a there's an end point to this. And I think for me that was what I needed, yeah. And and that just flipped my thinking into right, you know, let's let's stop kind of pratting about and and sort of dabbling in these instruments at home and actually learn them. Um, so you know, I'm really grateful for that opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Well, yeah, absolutely. And and and actually you alluded to this slightly earlier when you mentioned about your uh maternity leave, but you've you know you've also got a two-year-old little boy that's watching you, right, and learning from you. Um what you know, just for the benefit of those that kind of, you know, are wonder this at times, like what what is it like to be like a kind of you know, a professional musician, working mum, and balancing that with work and family life, what's that like for you, Caleb?

SPEAKER_03 24:11

I'm really grateful you asked that question because to me this is a real defining point in my career. And I know that sounds strange to say because you know, it is it's a personal achievement and accolade. Um, but the reason that I I kind of throw that in with the the career trajectory as well is um I think it's something that's not discussed enough when it comes to um musicians and and numerous different um positions within the music industry because often the lifestyle is difficult to navigate alongside being a parent. And I think that's the that's the real truth of it. Um and personally, that's what I saw when I was thinking about having a family. Um I remember trying to look for role models in a live capacity, whether that was someone pregnant on stage still performing, whether that was, you know, looking in the sidelines in the wings and and thinking, oh, you know, their their children have come to watch them or their families here. Um and I think I found that quite difficult to find people really visibly flying that flag, especially people that I could relate to in in my position, whether that was a woman on stage, um, a performer. And I think for a long time I remember thinking, how how will I know what that could look like if I can't see anyone around me doing it? Um, and I really did try to seek out people and have discussions quite openly of you know, how do you find it being a parent in the music industry and and what does a typical week look like for you? Um, because I really think some of that confidence and and strength to know that you can do something like that comes from um hearing about other people's experiences. So when I found out I was pregnant, it was really important to me to try and be a little bit of that that beacon, um, maybe to other people who had toyed with the idea of having a family and thought maybe it's not possible because I don't see anyone doing it. Um and I I was due to go on a small run of shows with blossoms at the time when I would have been seven months pregnant. And in my head, I was like, this is a real opportunity for me to stand up there and be like, look, you know, here I am, I'm pregnant, I'm performing, this is completely possible, and and hopefully, you know, kind of spread that that message on. So I was really grateful for the opportunity to do that. Um, I remember the the talks with the Blossom's team. Um, they were over the moon when they found out, they were super supportive. And the first question was, how can we support you and what do you need to be able to do these shows and this talk? Really?

SPEAKER_02 27:00

That's nice.

Balancing Touring And Parenthood

SPEAKER_03 27:01

Um, and it was really funny because my answer was, I don't know. You know, it's like I've never been pregnant before, and honestly, I don't know how this looks or how this goes or what we need to put in place. Right. Um, and I think it was very much the same for them because they'd never had anyone in their camp before who was pregnant. So we kind of worked together to navigate some of the logistics of touring, whether that was transport from venue to venue, whether that was, you know, things from a health and safety perspective. Um and anyway, we embarked on these these dates. I think it was three. Um, the first of which was at uh Coventry Empire. So I was seven months pregnant, and I remember earlier that day before the show having to go um shopping for a pair of black maternity trousers that I could wear on stage. Um because I was like, oh, I haven't got any trousers that fit me. I'm not gonna stand up there in like a pair of stretchy joggers, you know. So I was like, right, I need to go and find some trousers. So I was in carpentry, going around the shops, bagged myself a pair of trousers, um, and I was still on percussion and back in vocal duties at this point. So started the show playing bongos, um, you know, conga, a little bit of everything triggers, and the shows are quite high energy, you know, we're all kind of bopping around and you sort of dance as you're going through. Um, and my waters actually broke during the show, and it was one of those moments where I was kind of like, I don't know what's happening at the moment. Uh, but I'm seven months pregnant and that's very early. So yeah, it was um it was completely surreal. And I'm I got through the show, and when I went home, I then went to the hospital, and they were like, Yeah, your waters are broken. Um, so it kind of flipped then from the oh my gosh, I might I might not actually get to fly this flag, and this might not go how I've kind of planned it and how I've expected it to. Um, and there was supposed to be two more shows that week, um, which I didn't make because I did end up going into labour early. Um so um my little boy was born nine weeks early, so it was completely unexpected, a massive shock at the time. Um, and I did for a long time feel a real disappointment of not being able to get through those subsequent shows. Um, and it kind of weighed heavy for for quite a while because I felt like it'd sort of let someone down, you know, people that I didn't even know, these these people that I was hoping to inspire. And um and it was a strange feeling for a while, having the absolute elation of of luckily our son arriving safely and and being okay. Um, but with you know, the the plans and and the things that I kind of um had in mind for how I hoped it would have gone. Uh so yeah, it was it was a really strange time, and I've had quite a lot of conversations with um colleagues and um other musicians in bands who have since actually reached out to me to say, you know, how was your experience? Or um I know that you know you've had a little boy and you're a session player, so what does that look like for you? And I think that that was like a full circle moment where I realized that I didn't I didn't have to be out there visibly playing those shows um to spread that message, talking about it, um, and even just I guess building that network and people knowing that um I have a little boy now was enough to spark those conversations. So that that makes me feel really, really happy and grateful that even if I'm the tiniest catalyst for a conversation about it or for someone to come to me and and ask some advice, like that is absolutely incredible. So um so yeah, I think it's um it's a real privilege to be in that position.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Yeah, that's uh wow, that's that's powerful stuff right there, Claire. You know what I mean? Like on many, many levels as well. In fact, I'm just thinking of everything there, you know, like even the idea of like um other women, whether they're in the music industry or any industry for that matter, and just kind of watching you and going, Well, she looks pretty pregnant and she's up there and she's doing this, and you know, regardless of like, you know, I mean, what an amazing story, you know, in your son's life forever, by the way.

SPEAKER_03 31:38

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

I just I I always the ultimate icebreaker there, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah, and I mean no shade on Coventry whatsoever, but sometimes I do wish it was a slightly more exotic venue and place for that story. You know, it's forever going to be Coventry Empire, so you know, big up Coventry.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Oh, well, Coventry's got a special place in your life for the rest of your life now.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:03

Um, Kellette, um, I'd love to ask you about uh your time in Ruse because you know you were a very, very, very active uh duo, right? You know, you were the first act ever signed to Marshall Records. Um, and that was an era that saw you like touring relentlessly and playing major festivals and uh that must have been a pretty cool time in your in your career as well. Um how did the how did that band grow so quickly from like you know, nothing to like where you got because it it seemed like quite a short space of time, or have I got that wrong?

Building Fans At The Merch Desk

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Yeah, yeah, I I often ask myself the same question to be honest, because it was um it was quite a whirlwind experience. Um so there was just the two of us in the band, um, a duo, me and um uh another girl from uh Northern Ireland actually. And we'd met in London. I was living there at the time and working there, and we'd met and had a few jams, um, and there was a real like musical chemistry. Um, and we quickly became very close friends as well. Um it was one of those, one of those encounters where you just think, yeah, you know, I'm I really enjoy this person's company, we're we're on a level here, um, we could do something really exciting together. Um, so it had all of those um kind of make-ins. And we started gigging um in London. We did a few shows in London, and we were actually picked up by um a manager at one of our first shows, which I look back on now, and at the time, it's one of those encounters where you think, nah, this is too good to be true, you know, this is a fluke here. What what's in it for us or what's in it for you? Um, but no, we were just lucky enough to be found by um an Irish manager as well, um, who had come to the show and said that he'd just seen something quite quite magical about our live show. Um, and I think one of the big things was at that moment there were not many duos doing the genre and style of music that we were, and trying to kind of pull that off in a live capacity. Um we were often coined as the female royal blood just because there was two of us and we were playing a similar genre of music. Um, so it was quite an easy comparison to make there. Um, but yeah, I think at that time there, you know, there were a lot of traditional four or five piece bands playing alternative rock, um, sort of garage, um 90s garage throwbacks to that kind of style. Um, but I think it was maybe still quite unique to see two women on stage playing drums and guitar for a heavier genre. Um and I think that that was where the magic was, really. So so yeah, we were quickly picked up and and we had this wonderful manager who really believed um in us and our capabilities. He believed in um, you know, a real trajectory for us in the music industry. Um, and he worked tirelessly to help us build connections. He brought on a booker um that were called Midnight Mango, based over um near sort of Glastonbury Way. And they started booking our shows. And we just found ourselves with a real jam-packed touring schedule quite quickly. And I think the reason um that things elevated so fast is we were just always on the road. We were always performing, we were always networking. Um after every show that we played, we would literally hop off stage and run to the merch desk and man the merch desk ourselves, um, which often resulted in, you know, the whole audience looking that way at the stage and then looking that way to come and chat to us. Um and and we absolutely loved it. It was it was a real organic time in our lives where we were still grassroots enough to be able to go and man our own merch desks. Um and I think that was what kind of catapulted us. It was the fact that we were having these conversations with our fan base. Um we had, you know, the time to talk to them and actually make connections with them, which I think sometimes is not always possible these days, whether it's budget restraints, whether it's a security perspective, you know, there's lots of different reasons. And I think that was a real magical moment for us in building a genuine and connected fan base. And I think when you have a genuine fan base, that is when things organically happen for you. If people believe in you and they feel a connection um and they feel the passion from your music, then they will buy your merch, they will buy tickets to your shows. Um, and we were just lucky enough to forge that relationship early on, I think. Um from that moment, we then had uh US management come on board. Um, we had a record label, Marshall Records. Um we were published, so that that snowball was kind of rolling fast at at that point and um just carrying us with it, really, you know, for the ride.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

That's amazing. Wow. Um, what a learning curve when all that kind of you know uh I I it you know, it's the little things in life sometimes. Like, you know what you said there about the idea of kind of like going on stage and then going, right, we're done here, and you know, when you finish a set and you're really tired and you just want to kind of just go and be quiet somewhere, but no, you're out on the merch. That that speaks volumes, that does, because yeah, like anything, you know, a lot of people are investing their time when they come to see you, and they're investing in you as much as the music in some ways, you know. Uh I really admire you for doing that.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Um, thank you. Honestly, it was it was amazing for us because you know, it's not often you get to be on ground level hearing what your fans are actually saying about you.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Yeah, it's important.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

Sometimes, you know, it's it's via the record label, oh you're great and you're this and that, and and that's wonderful. Um, and obviously now it's online maybe, but there's something magical about that face-to-face connection and what people say in that moment. I think there's a lot of authenticity there that you sometimes don't don't get um and aren't privy to. So yeah, it was a it was a real magical time.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

Good for you. Good for you. An hour later, that heat's gone as well. There's the magic 15 minutes when you first come off, isn't there, where people really have to be.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

Well, I think it it must be the like um uh like the serotonin and all those kind of bits just to play and and the adrenaline and yeah.

From Student To Working Pro

SPEAKER_00 38:52

That's amazing. Well, it's really nice to to hear about about that that era of your life. Um what what what was the early kind of part of your career like Colette? You know, can can you talk us through your sort of student like you from student to professional? Like what did that look like for you?

SPEAKER_03 39:08

Yeah, um, so I uh I studied music at Leeds University, so I did a degree in popular and world music, um, specialising in drum kit and percussion. Uh, and then I moved down south after that. So I kind of gravitated towards London. Um, I got a job at music university there, and I was actually in the admissions team, so I wasn't playing or teaching, um, but I kind of saw it as a bit of an in towards the music industry, even though it wasn't the music industry, it was more music education. I think I was just intrigued as to where that pathway might lead me. Um, because I I didn't, you know, I didn't really have a musical network outside of my fellow students that I'd studied with at that point. Um, and I needed like a starting point and a launch pad. So I thought, you know, this is a good opportunity as ever. Let's go and work for this music uni, work in admissions. Um, I was still very passionate about music education, you know, recently graduating. Um, and it was a nice place for me to start off. So I moved towards London and I just started asking around, you know, where musicians were going, um, what kind of gigs were on, and started to try and branch out a little bit and just um go places, take things in. I went to a few jam nights. Um, and at the time I was I was quite overwhelmed and and quite introverted. So I didn't necessarily have the confidence to just go to a jam night and get up at pla and and play. So I'd go, I'd sit in the audience, I'd try and soak it all in, and then think, right, next time maybe I'll get up and play. Now I've kind of got a the grasp on what's going on and what kind of people are here, what kind of styles are being played. Um, and I just slowly sort of came out of my comfort zone and found friends and you know, I'd go again and be like, Oh, I saw you last time, nice to meet you. And and yeah, things just kind of snowball from there. So I built up a few connections. Um, and through the grapevine, I heard about um auditions that were taking place. So I'd sign up for auditions that I was um kind of relevant for. I did a few bits for up-and-coming artists, I did some auditions for well-known artists, um and and then record labels and you know, different opportunities. Um and each time it was really scary because I never really knew what to expect, and I knew that there would be a real high caliber of other musicians there, so you always know that you kind of have to present on your A game. And I think some of the first auditions I did, I definitely didn't know what to expect. And I was like, whoa, I'm kind of in over my head here, and I just learned something and took something away from every opportunity and and kept trying to kind of go up the ladder um until something stuck. And out of that, I did some session work, um, I did some of the TV shows that we talked about. Um, and I think it was just a case of getting my face out there, and then people would be like, Oh, she did that last time, or she worked with that act, and then I'd get a call to work with another artist on that roster. Um, and yeah, it was just quite organic, and I just kind of kept chipping away and until you know I found the place I wanted to be.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Um, and being in London led me to ruse as well, so all that was going on at the same time.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Of course, yeah, yeah.

Patchwork Careers And Bread‑And‑Butter Work

SPEAKER_03 42:44

And it was quite an eclectic mix, really. If I always say, you know, if you look at my CV, it's like a jack of all trades, there's bits of everything all over the place. Um and and I actually heard um Ray's drummer Matt Brooks talking about something um just today where he was he was kind of explaining that in between the playing for artists and the incredible opportunities and the real impressive things on the CV, um, for a lot of people there are these other bits that are maybe a little bit obscure, and that might be working um behind the bar in a venue. It might be um doing a little bit of admin work or, you know, something that's kind of music related but not playing. And that is really um, you know, it it kind of rings true for me. Um, because in between those opportunities, I was doing things like that. I was working at universities for a while. I did some extra work on Hollyoaks. Um, you know, I I did all these little bits for like agencies and yeah, just to just to kind of earn the money to pay the bills that then allowed me to have the time to go for these opportunities.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:58

Um, so so yeah. My my career has been really eclectic. Um and still, you know, today I I teach at BIM, um, as you know. Yeah. And and that's what I call sort of like the bread and butter work in between these these musical bits, the bits that allows me to pay the bills, um, hopefully, you know, impart some kind of wisdom. Oh, you you certainly do that.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

The students absolutely love you. Everyone does their souls.

SPEAKER_03 44:25

Oh, thanks, Johnny. Likewise, yeah. Well, so yeah, it's just a mixed bag.

SPEAKER_00 44:30

Well, that was a very important part, you know, of you know, your your decision there to kind of when you finish at Leeds and go, right, I'm done with my studying for the time being, right? That aspect of things, and let me go to London and set all the things that you set up when you went there, you know, that's what kind of um led you on to all the things that then happened next, you know. So that was that was a it was a bold move, but it was a very important one. It was I'm glad that you did it because it it enabled you to, you know, move up the ladder, so to speak.

SPEAKER_03 45:02

Yeah, there's a lot of place, a lot of um right time, right place there, I think for me, and you know, crime of opportunity.

SPEAKER_00 45:09

Yeah, yeah. No, I that that that make that makes sense. But at the same time, you know, you've right place, right time, yes, but you've still got to put yourself there and make it happen. And you you did that, you know. So well, well done you. Um Colette, last question for you. Uh so Colette, if you were to spend 15 minutes with the 18-year-old Colette, um, you know, quick cup of tea together, you know, right, uh what would you tell her?

Advice To 18‑Year‑Old Self

SPEAKER_03 45:40

Um so I think my advice would be just to enjoy the journey more. Um because I've definitely been guilty of thinking like ten steps ahead. Um I'm the kind of person that is producing the song before I've written the song. Um so I think yeah, I think as I've got older I've realized that I'm a chronic overthinker. Um and I need to be more present sometimes in you know the actual journey and the process of things and just take it in. Um because I think it's really easy to fixate on doing a good job and what the end product might look like. Um and before you know it, the actual experience has gone. Um so I think that would be my advice. I mean, you know, there's a plethora of different things that I could advise myself at 18. You know, don't get that haircut, definitely don't dye it that colour colette, what you're thinking, um, time and time again. But but yeah, I think when it comes to Korea, I think it would just be enjoy the process, you know, um, and stop like sweating the small stuff.

SPEAKER_02 47:03

Really?

SPEAKER_03 47:04

The amount of gigs where I have fixated on things that really, in the grand scheme of things, do not matter at all. Um, and then look back afterwards and being like, why did I, you know, waste that time focusing on that thing. Um, so yeah, I just have a word with myself and be like, you know what, it's all gonna be okay, kid.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

That's so sweet. I love that. That's really, really, really nice. There's a lot to be said for just living in the moment, right? Yeah, definitely. Um actually, you know, I I'd say out of all of the people, all the music professionals I know, I'd say you're really good at it, actually, Colette. Um, you know, like I mean, talk talk about being present in the moment, right? You know, not everybody can say that their waters broke on stage, right? At the Coventry Empire. If that's not living in the moment, then tell me what is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

Um absolutely, yeah, rock and roll.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Colette, you're an inspiration. I really mean it, you know, uh to many, many, many people, myself included, Colette. You're a you're an absolutely fine example uh of a music industry professional. You really are.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

Can I just say then, while we're on air, um I you are very much someone I look up to when it comes to the music industry. And you know, as an educator, um just you know, the the amount of information that you know, I think if there's something to be known about the music business that you don't know, it is not worth knowing. So, you know, I just want to say thank you as well for being such an inspiration. It's been a privilege.

SPEAKER_00 48:35

Oh, bless you. Cheers, Colette. Oh, well, that's a good place to end it then. Um, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Colette.

SPEAKER_03 48:43

Thank you.

Closing Reflections And Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 48:44

Okay, brilliant. Oh, what a wonderful lady. Uh, it was really nice to talk to Colette about what she does and how she's got there and all everything in between, right? There's a lot of complexities to this, isn't there? And I'm incredibly mindful that everybody's journey into becoming a professional musician, you know, it can look pretty different, right? There's kind of no right or wrong way of doing it, which is one of the many things that makes it so incredibly complex at times because there's not like a solid pathway into here's how it's done. And one of the things I like to do here on this show is to be able to shine a light on different people and understand their pathways into what they've done and what they're doing so that it can inspire and educate others to be able to go, hey, that sounds like something that I might be interested in doing. And it's really interesting to see that that person did it this way. Colette was a brilliant example of that. I hope you enjoyed uh what she had to say. Um, she's uh she's a fun lady to talk to, she's uh very, very, very inspiring. Uh, I hope you took a lot from uh from listening uh or watching uh what she was all about today. Okay, that's enough from me today. I'll be back same time next week. Um, may the force be with you.