Unfiltered Christian Podcast
Welcome to "Unfiltered Christian," a podcast where faith meets authenticity. Join me as we share the raw and real experiences of our Christian journey, navigating the highs and lows of life. Through heartfelt testimonials and candid conversations, we'll explore the challenges and triumphs of living a life of faith. Whether you're struggling or soaring, this podcast aims to uplift, encourage, and remind you that you're never alone in your walk with Christ. Tune in for genuine insights, relatable stories, and a community of believers striving to grow together.
Unfiltered Christian Podcast
Ep 15 - Exploring Men's Unique Challenges in Embracing Prayer and Vulnerability
This episode explores the often unspoken struggles of men regarding prayer and vulnerability in their spiritual lives. With insights from guest jl of The Praying Introvert, we discuss the societal expectations that can hinder men's prayer lives, strategies for developing consistency in prayer, and the importance of community in fostering authentic spiritual expressions.
• The unique challenges men face in prayer
• Societal pressures and their impact on faith
• The importance of vulnerability in prayer
• Strategies for creating a consistent prayer life
• How community support shapes men's prayer experiences
• Personal testimonies of answered prayers
• Encouragement to embrace authenticity in prayer
• The call for inclusivity in faith practices
• Practical advice for deepening one's relationship with God
Thank you for Listening
To ask us a question email us @ unfilteredchristian1@gmail.com
Welcome to the Unfiltered Christian Podcast with Cece and Shea. Come and join us on an authentic journey through the highs and lows of our Christian faith, where nothing but the truth is spoken. Hey, saints, welcome back to the Unfiltered Christian Podcast. Today we have a special guest, jl Say hi.
Speaker 2:Hi everyone.
Speaker 1:And I'm your host, cece. So, jl, I'm going to plug him in. So he has a channel called the Praying Introvert and I just wanted you to just talk a little bit about it before we go into the questioning.
Speaker 2:So the Praying Introvert and I just wanted you to just talk a little bit about it before we go into the questioning. So I'm a praying introvert. So I think for over 10 years I've often been involved in prayer ministries in my local churches and I've often found that I could be the only male within the circle, or there's just not a lot of men in general that are actively in prayer ministries. I had a WhatsApp prayer ministry where I would send prayer requests to, like friends and family and church members and um ask for their prayer requests and just praying for them, like with a voice note or or just letting them know that I'm praying at that time for them, that specific day.
Speaker 2:I found out recently, for a lot of struggle, that prayer praying is my actual purpose and I started the Prayer World, the Praying Introvert channel, because, number one, I want to get more people praying. More people praying men, female, male, female, older members, um, youth just get us praying more daily and actively being involved in prayer and knowing the power of prayer. Um, why, why is it called praying introvert? Well, number one, I to pray, but also I'm actually an introvert. So, yeah, it should be interesting today in this podcast.
Speaker 1:And for those who don't know what an introvert is For those who don't know what an introvert is.
Speaker 2:So I'm that guy where if there's a big, if there's a room full of like a hundred people, I would be that one person that's in the corner trying to run away or just not saying a lot. So introverts you could say they're not like social butterflies.
Speaker 1:To a certain extent that's how I put it it takes them a lot to open up to people. Yeah, and it's so funny that you, when you were with your intro explaining about the praying introvert. The reason why is you're our first male one here and we do have male listeners, and it's about your favorite topic, about prayer. Um, so my first question to you is what do you think are the biggest challenges men face when it comes to developing a consistent prayer life?
Speaker 2:That's an interesting question. The first thing that comes to mind is that I don't know. Being a man, in general, you want to solve things yourself. So let's say I've got a a certain issue, like, for instance, with me trying to get a new job. I was thinking, okay, I need to do all this work to get a new job, need to have the correct CV, need to have the right things in my applications and then, once I've done all those things, get an interview and put all my hard work into the interview. Then I'll get the job. But when you do that, you don't really leave any room for prayer, because you still need to pray for God to guide you to the correct job, not just any job. Guide you to the correct job, not just any job. So I think, with men and praying, it's um.
Speaker 1:Praying more is putting it in into God's hands rather than having the control over everything do you feel like it's because of how society puts you that, like you know, the men must know everything? So then, kind of like when some of the challenges is that sometimes you don't see God because you have to be the quote-unquote man in its summation marks yeah, yeah, 100, 100, 100.
Speaker 2:Like a lot of people think that men should have all the answers and know what to do. So for hearing a man that's in prayer, not having a prayer ministry or being more focused on prayer, it's not something you hear all the time. It's like I would say look at our churches. Whenever you see a prayer department, it could just be the whole department could just be female. It could just be the whole department could just be female. And then men growing up in the church and just seeing that okay, it's just just just ladies that are in these prayer departments, they think, okay, maybe it's not a role.
Speaker 1:I didn't think about that one, it's true. Second question do you ever feel like pride or self-resilience gets into the way of turning to God in prayer? And then the second question that goes along with that is how do you deal with that?
Speaker 2:so pride and self-resilience um I think it's the case of well this is well personally speaking um, men are not as vulnerable. So sometimes if, like as a man, you're going through something, you don't always speak to someone else saying to them what you're going through. And I think sometimes it's the same with pro as well. Like, there was a point last year I was at a real low point, almost close to suicidal, and instead of speaking to God when it was early on in that low point, I just kept it bottled in. I didn't really speak to anyone either, because as a man, you think I should be able to sort these things by myself. I don't need help.
Speaker 2:If I'm speaking to other people, then I'm not doing as I should be doing as a man. And I think that's the same with men and their mental health when they're going to speak to counsellors. It takes a real push for a lot of men to do that, and I think it's the same with prayer as well. It goes back to I should be able to do this by myself. Why do I have to speak to someone else? Why do I have to put it in their hands, type of thing.
Speaker 1:That's deep, you know that's actually deep, like you never really actually, because obviously we're two different sex. But then you know, like, when it comes to god, you wouldn't think that men struggle with that department, and that's why it's so important to have these talks, in these conversations, so that our sisters can check in on our brothers, you know more, and see how they are and and offer to pray with them or what they're going through. And I'm sorry that, um, last year that you felt suicidal, but we give praises to Yahweh that you're still with us today. Um, it kind of links into my third question as a man, do you find it harder to express vulnerability or weakness, um, in your prayers?
Speaker 1:Um, and if you can give an example of that which you kind of did touch on, because you know like sometimes I think as a woman, it's like easier to go to your father up above because you're alone, you're in your silent, silent room, nobody's around you. But, as you just stated, that is, it's hard, and I just wanted you to just just dig in a little bit deeper to express your vulnerability and your weakness in your prayers, like as to why you find it harder and how did you overcome it yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think there's there's two aspects of it. So the the vulnerability part, um, I think, because in general of men, they don't really open up. Sometimes it's hard well, for me anyways, it's hard to articulate what I should be actually saying in this prayer, because sometimes you think like, okay, we see how people pray in the church and we think, okay, it should be this, either strict structure, or it should be very loud and emotional, or it's very repetitive, like not to knock people. But I hear a lot of people say like, yes, lord Jesus, jesus, lord Lord, going on and on.
Speaker 2:So sometimes, when I want to pray about something I'm thinking and the words that I'm actually saying aren't even making sense.
Speaker 2:Does my prayer have to be perfect?
Speaker 2:This was something I had to overcome because when it was getting to that I felt like, okay, I don't really want to pray because I'm not making any sense.
Speaker 2:And especially, there was even a part of my WhatsApp prayer ministry where sometimes I'll see the prayer requests whatsapp prayer ministry where, like, there are some times I see the prayer requests and I want to do a recording, but then I think, is the recipient even going to appreciate what I'm going to say because I might just be fumbling all over the place, but I think a key thing like for me, for what I remember now is that it doesn't matter how you say your prayers, it doesn't matter how it sounds to you if it's going to be a blessing to someone. If it's going to be a blessing to someone, god will make sure that they hear what they need to hear. And also, when we're praying to God, it's like he knows our heart and he knows what we're trying to say anyway. So we shouldn't just be trying to over complicate it all the time. Just have the sincere heart whilst we're praying and how do you deal with it?
Speaker 1:when you are faced with it, when you find it hard to be vulnerable, like, how do you overcome it?
Speaker 2:So a way for me to overcome it how I've overcome it is I have to. It's weird. I was going to say I have to often like psych myself to do it, but it's like sometimes I just have to talk to myself. It's like Justin, just pray, jl, just pray, just pray, then you know, god will hear you.
Speaker 1:No you shouldn't over complicate it.
Speaker 2:God has listened to all your prayers in the past. No, he's not. He's not going to stop listening to these ones now.
Speaker 1:So over thinking it just come to him has the pressure of society or expectations of masculinity ever impacted the way how you approach prayer or your relationship with God?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so definitely with how I approach prayer, of how I approach prayer. So it goes back to what I was saying one of the previous questions, where prayer ministries is more dominated by women and as a male going into prayer ministries, it's almost like more is expected. So I'll give you an example. I was at a prayer retreat and there was about 60 of us Only. There was only seven men.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:There's only seven men and I was the second youngest. So, for those listening, I am over 35 or under 40. So just to give context, and I'm saying I was the second youngest, and so it's that aspect, and also being a man within that prayer retreat. So the women they were just asked to like do certain prayers and um praying for each other, whereas if you're a man that was there they will ask you okay, can you lead out in this? Can you do the study? Can you do all these other things as well?
Speaker 1:So it wasn't exactly prayer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's almost like you can't be a man that just prays. You need to do all the other things as well.
Speaker 1:So you basically need to be a leader and the women be the prayer warriors. Exactly I've never picked that up, you know like, I've never like. Now that you're saying it out aloud, I see it, but I've never, ever like. Because obviously, yes, you know like sometimes in divine you hear like some of the men will pray, but majority of the time it is the women, like it's rare that you hear or less, unless it's men's day, or yeah, wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'll give you another example, like, whilst we were there, so all the seven men, um, so obviously I was one of them, but I was just someone that prayed there was the leader of the area, so the area in London and they were the prayer ministry's leader for that area. So a leader, yeah, there were three elders from three different churches and I think the other two they were just going to the retreat, so they might have just been there just to to the retreat.
Speaker 2:So they might have just been there just to get an experience.
Speaker 1:But in general, it's always a leader From a society point of view. Do you feel like? Because now you make me think, like when you, when you think about um, it's like you know your grandma's praying over you, your auntie's praying over you, um, you don't really hear like, oh, it wasn't. If you know it was, it wasn't for, like, if it was not for your granddad's prayers, it's always just like you know it's the, the prayers of the aunties and the grandmas.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You don't really, and we need to change that, because even in the Bible there's so many men that pray. So I wonder where that narrative has come from.
Speaker 2:Or is it a?
Speaker 1:thing that, yeah, go on. Sorry, sorry.
Speaker 2:But then I'm also thinking is it an Adventist thing?
Speaker 1:No, because I grew up in a Sunday church and it's the same thing. In a Church of England church, it's the same thing.
Speaker 2:No, I hear that, but I mean also with, let's say, like you went onto YouTube and you were looking for like a prayer channel, you'd find all all other denominations of men actively praying and doing prayer requests and doing live, live shows for prayer requests as well. Struggle to find that.
Speaker 1:20s so what do you think that could be for in for a man in the adventist world? Is it like their masculinity which makes them think because you've stepped out the box and have and have done it. Um, so what made you step outside the box to do it?
Speaker 2:um even though this is going away from my interview questions yeah, yeah, yes but this is very interesting um, the thing is right, I didn't feel like I was like stepping outside the box, it was just something I just got into. I was always going to like prayer meetings prayer meetings on a Wednesday evening and I think, maybe because I was active there and consistently going, and also I was quite young because I was going from like a teenager like consistently going to prayer meetings, and looking back at it now I was the only teenager male teenager there and looking back at it now I was the only teenager, the only teenager there. But it wasn't until I became part of a prayer band in one of my old churches and just noticing okay, wait, all these times I've been in the church, I don't really see any men doing this, it's just me. All these times I've been in the church, I don't really see any men doing this, it's just me, yeah. So I think it goes back to what we see what we see in church.
Speaker 1:You, know, do you feel like so society doesn't really like outside of church, society doesn't really have an effect.
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't think so personally.
Speaker 1:Okay, I don't think so, yeah, an effect? I don't think so.
Speaker 2:personally I don't think so. For me, I don't think it's linked Because in society you've got there isn't so much with gender roles anymore. To a certain degree it's a bit more flexible than before, whereas in church you find that only certain genders do certain things how, how open are you to pray for somebody, like within your workplace, or if, would you ever feel like, okay, can I?
Speaker 1:can I say like oh, can I pray for you or oh, no no, no, I'll do it, I'll pray for them.
Speaker 2:Like sometimes I I've had like some of my old team members. They were going through stuff and I just offered like do you mind if I pray for you? And they gladly accepted, like they appreciated it.
Speaker 1:Didn't you feel nervous? Because, being an introvert like to you know.
Speaker 2:See, that's the weird thing when it comes to prayer, I don't feel like an introvert. It's weird, I just do it and I'm just thinking like it's not really about me. Anyway, it's about those that need the prayer, it's about the topic at hand, so me offering the prayer it's about the topic at hand, so me offering the prayer is helping or starting a process in that person's life. Yeah, you know, I've never really thought of that before, I just do it. But then I guess introverts always have their thing where they feel really comfortable yeah yeah, and I guess you're not playing for a stranger
Speaker 1:exactly, yeah although you say that um, so I'm diverting again.
Speaker 2:There was a few years ago, myself and the prayer leader from Old Church. We were literally just walking around the high street and I had a sign saying can I pray for you?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the initial thought of doing that was scary as an introvert. But people did come to us and ask him for prayer and when those opportunities came was like okay, just do away with your own issues, thinking that you can't speak to people in public, just pray for them. They're asking for prayer, they're here for a reason. They've seen the sign, they want prayer. Um, so yeah, it's, it's funny that it just. So, yeah, it's funny that it just yeah. It's like I'm a totally different person when it comes to prayer.
Speaker 1:The Holy Spirit takes over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally.
Speaker 1:Amen. How do you navigate feelings of I can never pronounce this word Inadequacy or guilt when it comes to being a spiritual leader in your home or community?
Speaker 2:I think this is a thing I struggle with in general. It links to the whole comparing yourself to others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And like, for instance, let's say, when I started getting into prayer, I'm seeing how the older ladies are praying, okay. And then you often think, okay, if I don't pray like that, then my prayers are not worthy and what I've had to do with myself, like, if anything, where you compare yourself to others yeah you have to.
Speaker 2:You have to. Well, I've had to block it out. So I've had to focus on the main reason. Why am I doing this? I'm not praying so that people could say, oh yeah, that was a good prayer, this, it was powerful, blah, blah. No, I'm praying to make a difference. I'm praying for this person. I'm praying for this situation. As long as I've got the motive right whilst I'm praying, that's all that matters. And so just to go back to what I was saying about looking at, and so just to go back to what I was saying about looking at, like an older lady praying in church and thinking that I'm not worthy to pray yeah, it's actually a real thing with younger people in church.
Speaker 2:So there have been moments where when I was a youth leader and you're trying to sort your church program, yeah, and you need someone to do like the postal prayer. Anytime I would ask a youth to do it, they'll be like no, because I can't pray like the older members or you can't think of a prayer that's long enough to take up that time. Yeah, there's that too. So for me, it's just focusing on why I'm praying and not focusing on the praise or the lack of praise you might get from people after you do it.
Speaker 1:It's just focusing on the main reason, yeah do you find it easier to do within your household?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, pray, yeah, praying within my household. Yeah, that's, that's fine. Um, I think it's taken, um, it's taken on a new well, it's shifted a little bit the approach as well. So I would try to pray for the children and my wife every morning. So, let's say, before the children are are about, it was just myself, my wife, praying then yeah you could go a bit more deeper into things, or it might be a little longer yeah but when you have the children like they're, they're just starting their journey with god and I, their prayer, their prayer life as well.
Speaker 2:So I can't be just there praying, praying, praying a long time, wanting to learn how to pray in a simple way for them to understand exactly so not to just like make it overbearing for them, just make it simple for them, and what I'm saying is simple for them to understand, and then they can learn how to pray from that and then develop after I have a question um, obviously, now that I've thought of the question, it might it might be different, so I'm trying to reword my question like um, growing up, did you like within a household rather than church?
Speaker 1:um, did you ever see like men pray, like whether it be like over food or just in general?
Speaker 2:So before going to church, well, I say before going to church, so one to 12 years of age, no, didn't see men pray Well, definitely not at home. And then if I used to go to Sunday church as well, so Baptist church, but back then it's like they're just in the play areas.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you don't really see what's happening in the main service. So I didn't really see men pray there. Um it wasn't until I started going like Adventist church and um, yeah, I'd see men saying grace, see some men praying in church as well um what more like at home yeah, I'm going again today.
Speaker 2:I'm going to that, sorry so it went until my mum got remarried and my stepdad. He often put in place the family worship morning and evening, and it was during those moments you'd hear him praying, and then now he's getting us to pray as well. So you take turns. Who does it in the morning, who does it in the evening?
Speaker 1:Was that every day?
Speaker 2:Yes, every day. So, it was a bit of a culture shock to begin with, because I wasn't used to that.
Speaker 1:Even me as a Christian, I'm thinking oh, that's a lot, isn't it?
Speaker 2:yeah, morning and evening, so it could be like from 5 or 6am and then evening 6 or 7pm every day about fail it's good though yeah, it's good and that thing.
Speaker 2:That's that's partly what's grounded me with prayer as well, or knowing that it's important. Um, so, yeah, we had to worship and also, yeah, every meal, like you know, say one of us would say grace, so it would be my stepdad, my mum or my brother there was always a prayer. And then, even even before leaving the house on Sabbath, just before we leave the house, we pray.
Speaker 1:Then we get in the car, we pray, then we get home from church, then we get home, then we got home from church, then we'd get in the car, we'd pray oh right, double blessings, boy.
Speaker 2:Then when we got home from church, as soon as we'd get through the front door, we'd pray again. We'd stand there before we'd do anything and pray. So it was always there.
Speaker 1:That's good, though the praying man.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I was sitting here thinking about it and I've never. I was trying to separate leadership, what you said, with a man and them just praying normally, and I couldn't. I was going through my, my memories that I can remember and I can't. I've never actually seen a man just pray, just just to pray sake. It's like it would be like if a man is having a bible study then he would open it up or close it, or it was still a leadership role, if you know what I mean. I've never just deep it to see like a man just pray, like yeah, I had like certain friends like yourself, like say, like I'll pray for you, or whatever, but I've never actually seen it the way how women do it and that's what I was trying to think like outside of a leadership role. I haven't really seen men pray like that.
Speaker 2:Oh, you've opened my eyes and we need to change that yeah, we do, we actually do, and that's I was saying, that's partly why I started to pray an introvert. So as so, as so. I want to get more people praying, but I want to see more men praying. I want to see more men praying and knowing that they can pray, and it's not just, and that they can get into prayer ministries because there's space for everyone there.
Speaker 1:Yeah and like, not only only because like men can relate to men more, not saying you know what I mean. With certain things it's nice to just have like. I know that they have like men's praying ministry or different stuff, but it's important to know that there is a praying brother, that you see, that you can just feel approachable, to just go, and you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, yeah, no, no, yeah, no. I definitely get you. Yeah, yeah, and that's why we need more for those relationship type things. There's going to be like. There's only only so much sometimes, like a woman would understand with a man yeah, and vice versa, so, and the same might come in with prayer when they're opening up about things. So, yeah, we just need to need to change the narrative.
Speaker 1:Really concerning that yeah, I love that. Um. I'm gonna read um luke 5, 16. I'm gonna read it in the new kings james version and the internet and the niv. And it says um so he himself often withdrew into the wilderness and prayed. And in the NIV it says but Jesus often withdrew to the lonely places and prayed. What do you think about Jesus's example of withdrawing to pray?
Speaker 2:What do you think it teaches about prioritising for men, prioritising prayer in their life, for men, prioritising prayer for me? How I see that scripture, it's like, okay, you are a man, but sometimes you just need to take a step back and just speak with me, which is God. Distractions, all the busyness, all the things where there might be important things, but you're not doing them the best you can, because you just need to take some time out and just open up to God. So, also, when you see that scripture as well, you just think, okay, he withdrew himself into the wilderness. So, like the wilderness, there's nothing there, there's nothing really there that's going to distract you. There's nothing there that's going to make you lose your focus, going to make you lose your focus. And for a man doing that as well, you just need to have that strong one-on-one time with God, almost like to to some degree, recharge your batteries and get yourself level-headed again and then push on again after that.
Speaker 1:Do you have like?
Speaker 2:a little place where you pray, where you just switch off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, mine is often when everyone else in the household is asleep and I'll just go into the office and just have my one-to-one time with God, just laying a lot of things out, because there could be one that I pray in other areas of the house or in public or whilst I'm going out.
Speaker 2:But there are some times where I might be really, really struggling. I just need to focus and just have a one-to-one time of god and it could be like I might say the prayer and then after that for maybe I think even sometimes at least 15 minutes I'll just be just kneeling, just waiting to see if I get what God's saying to me, or just meditating on what's actually just happened. Because a lot of the time we'll pray and then we'll get up straight away. But sometimes God just wants us to stay in that attitude of prayer and then sometimes he can reveal things to us straight away, because sometimes, with him speaking and the Holy Spirit, it's our conscience. So you'll get the thoughts in your head. It'll make you think of things you weren't thinking of before, before you prayed. So it's just staying in that attitude of prayer after you've actually prayed can make a difference in what you do after.
Speaker 1:That's interesting, you know, because I just say amen and get up, you know, and I hear that.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's what most of us do but you, you made a valid point because there's the times where I I need I like Yahweh, I get in my car and I drive. That's my, my prayer time, that's my quiet room, driving, and I'll be literally in the car like talking. It's good that people, that people know that other people talk on the phone. Well, because they might think I'm mad because I'm literally having a conversation like I'm on the phone, like my lips are moving and everything. And you're right, because sometimes there's no music on and when, when I finish saying amen, I'm in total silence and like he is talking. But it's just that time where, not only in those deep times when I'm going through it, but just to take that time when I'm just praying for somebody or whatever, just to just have that time to just in reverence, just to listen. Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2:We don't really think about it that much, do we? No, no, it's important. It's important. I think.
Speaker 2:What happens is sometimes we make it seem like we're too busy to pray or to wait after so that we might just say a prayer then and get on with our lives. But I think sometimes, yeah, we just, we have the time, it's just our mindset and the priority. Because, as I was saying that when I was in that lowly point, we have the time, it's just our mindset and the priority. Because, as I was saying that when I was in that lowly point, or even before starting the praying introvert, there was a few months where I was like, oh, I've got no time to pray, let me just do this, let me do that.
Speaker 2:But it goes back to the relationship of god who, who are you serving? What is, what is your priority in life? You have time. No, no one's saying to like be there for an hour or two praying, which is fine, which is fine, by the way, but you don't have to be there for that long. Um, it's more the sincerity of your heart when it comes to praying. And if you're saying you're too busy to pray, what are these things you're, what are the things you're putting before prayer. So it all goes back to what's your main focus in life, like serving god or just making sure you're getting by day by day with your um, with your earthly focuses I do have one question before we move on to the encouragement question that you made me think about, because men deal with egos.
Speaker 1:Um, how do you listen to god and deny your ego? Uh, yeah, because that's a whole masculinity as well, you know, yeah, um, because that's a whole masculinity as well.
Speaker 2:you know, yeah, I'm trying to think so. I've got this example with myself. So I got to a point where for five years or more, I wasn't doing anything ministry-wise and I felt because of that I don't know, it's weird that my relationship with God wasn't that close Because I just wasn't doing anything. I wasn't even studying for myself either. I feel like sometimes, when you have your ministry, it kind of makes you do a bit more study-wise, even though you should be doing it anyway study-wise, even though I should be doing it anyway.
Speaker 2:So I started to pray and asking God okay, what should I be more involved with in church? How can I help the church? Because sometimes it's easy to look at what's happening in church and you're thinking, oh, thinking they could do this better, they could do that better. What am I doing? I'm not even helping. So I was asking for guidance with that and you know that when I was saying, when you pray, don't get up straight away. So I didn't get up straight away and it was almost like God was saying to me and you know, but you won't do it now. You knew before even praying what the answer was, but you're hoping for a different answer. Just do the thing that I've called you to do. Yeah, I think. I think sometimes, as a man, you want to put yourself in a box that you think you fit in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in a box that you think you fit in, yeah, and hearing that God is saying something totally different and it might be the case of he wants to put you somewhere where you're not comfortable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or a place where you can't see yourself doing that type of role or whatnot, you think, okay, why am I praying then? Like this is totally false, this can't work. But then it goes back to faith, doesn't it? Yeah yeah, like if you're, if you're praying without faith, then like what's going on? Why pray if you don't want to hear the answer?
Speaker 1:Drops mic. Yeah, drops mike. Okay, so moving into encouraging questions, how has prayer strengthened you in your role as a man, whether in leadership work or family?
Speaker 2:It strengthened me in the sense of I know, I know that God's got my back like if I've got, if I've got issues at work now, whether it's issues like it could be a difficult task to do at work, and I'm thinking, oh, I can't do this. This is really difficult. I know that I can go to God and ask of situation, whether it be big, whether it be small, so that is there's often, there's like often I probably something's gone missing in the house and probably something's gone missing in the house. Normally you'd try to search the whole house for it, go in every room, make the whole house look like a mess.
Speaker 1:But what?
Speaker 2:I do now, instead of rushing to go into it. It's like, lord, can you help me to find this certain thing? And I think sometimes when you do that, when I do that anyway, it does calm you a bit, because then it's like, okay, god will let you find it when you need to find it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah, I think, yeah, I think of myself like I'm just able to pray for almost anything now, any situation?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, not sure if I answered that well, yeah, well, I guess it's because it's like strengthening your prayer, in a sense that you now put the Lord first because you believe in prayer, and that's how it's strengthening you in everything, whether it be leadership, work or your family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly like I think there's there's like nominations going in the month well, happening in my church soon, so the nominations is where, um, they choose who's going to be elected to what role and whatnot, so like elders, deaconry, prayer leader and so on um this is really weird, because normally that people make suggestions and they'll just be like no, it's not for me, it's not for me.
Speaker 2:But then I'm like not showing my faith there. But it's a bit different now, since my prayer life has got a lot stronger, because it's like if, if I'm elected to do something this year, my thought process is okay, I've been elected for this. If it's your role, gods, then let's do it now. I'm not doing this role by myself. It's you doing it through me and you've chosen me for a reason like don't get me wrong. There'll be some way you might get elected for a role and it's you know, it's not, you know you shouldn't be doing it. But then it goes back to praying of god as well, asking for the right answer to give. But um, but yeah, I feel like knowing that god has my back and he'll get me through everything I shouldn't really complain or worry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, can you share a time when God answered a prayer in a way that surprised you or encouraged you?
Speaker 2:Hmm, a way that surprised me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you were shocked, like what.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it was actually this year, so early this year. I'll go back a bit. So I was in a job where I was in a job for like five years where it wasn't great for my mental, my mental health. I was leading a team, leading a team of four people, and we supported over 20,000 staff in five different locations and it was really difficult. And I also had and what made it worse, during that time I also had a troublesome I say troublesome member of staff that made a lot of accusations against me, which were all false but didn't make it any better, because they still expected me to manage the person.
Speaker 2:Um, I got to a point where I just really needed to leave that job, not just because it was busy, not just because it was um the accusations, but also because I had two young children. Now I needed that flexibility for them and I being able to support my wife doing the school runs or just being available for them for not able to go into school or nursery. That that flexibility wasn't in that rock in my job wasn't in that rock in my job. Um, I kept praying about getting a new job and, um, I had so many interviews like so, so many and I was trying to go into a higher role. So, yes, I was trying to go to a higher graded role and I kept going to interviews and after having the interviews you hear the outcome saying that, oh, the interview was good, but you just don't have the experience or this role yeah and you just start to think am I just stuck in this place, um, and I don't know about?
Speaker 2:you, but your mental health is a thing, yeah, and you think, okay, it's not really flexible in this job, but it's flexible to a certain degree. So maybe I'm just stuck here and have to do it for the children, because you know that sometimes if you don't know what the next job is going to show you flexibility wise until you go there sometimes. So it was almost like I was just settling to be in this job. But a lot of people could see like I was down, like there was no motivation. I was, could see I could easily um, agitated by stuff and, yeah, I just didn't feel like doing anything outside of work either rather than just sleep because it was that stressful. It got to a point. Well, there was, I say a point, there was.
Speaker 2:I often look on the websites where it's got all the jobs on my sector and I saw this one job there and I thought I'm not going to get this job anyway, so let's just apply. It's the same grade as my job already. You know when you go into an application and it's already got your application info from previous job application. So I literally just used the same and just changed the job title and a few weeks later got invited to interview. And I was thinking got invited to interview, let me see what this job is about. Because I didn't even read it and I was thinking, going back to the interview, let me see what this job is about. Because I didn't even read it, didn't even read it too tough. And I'm reading it and I'm thinking okay, it's a deputy manager role, but on the same grade that I'm on now. And it's weird because I was saying to myself maybe I shouldn't go for it because it's like a step backwards, going to a deputy rather than being a manager again.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I spoke to my Muslim friend, who I pray with sometimes, and he was encouraging me, saying I should go for it because it was giving the background to what the role actually is, and I thought, okay, you know what, I'll go to it. But on that morning, or that, actually it was that whole week, the whole week of the interview I was quite ill. Yeah, I was. I was really, really sick and I was thinking of withdrawing um, because it was a lot different to the other interviews, because all the ones I had before they were, they were all remote, and this one they asked me to come in, so that, okay, I'm sick, but now I have to just try and go in. And when I got there, they, they saw that I was ill because I, I was, I was a mess, I was a mess you had flu.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was mad, I couldn't really speak properly either. Yeah, so I had the interview. I thought, okay, I did all right. I remember one of the questions where the manager there was asking okay, so if you get this role, what support do you need for the first three months? So I said okay, okay, what I need to learn and exposure to and that type of thing yeah and her response was like oh yeah, when you start, we'll do this and do that for you oh yeah okay, she said.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking in my head. She said, when you start, um, I just thought it might just be the whole poker face thing, isn't it? But then she did say okay, you were the first one that was interviewed. I was finding, like, why I have to be the first one. You think that someone will do better than you after.
Speaker 2:And she was saying oh, you might have to wait a bit longer because there's one candidate that's going to get interviewed the week after yeah so you know when you have an interview and you just want to, just want to know so you can move on with your life yeah so I was all waiting like for two weeks and I was thinking, oh, it's been two weeks, I ain't heard nothing.
Speaker 1:Was you praying in between the time?
Speaker 2:oh yeah, definitely yeah, because things were getting even more drastic. At work. You know, like when you have um, when you've had your interview and you're waiting for the outcome, there's like you always get that feeling like you just want to know the results. Now, so often during that time, that's when I'm praying a lot to calm my nerves and saying, okay, whatever outcome it is, that's your will, god. So it's just keeping myself level-headed in that. So waiting the two weeks, and I thought I haven't heard anything. So if it's your god, it's your role. But then I got a phone call now after two weeks, and so it was the, it was the manager and she was saying oh, you had a really good interview, you've got a lot of transferable skills, you've got management experience as well and we'd like to give you the job now. My response so for maybe 10 or 20 seconds I didn't say anything and she was like she was like are you, are you, are you there, are you there?
Speaker 2:I said to her, said to her oh, um, yeah, I'm here. I was just trying not to scream, you know. And it's crazy, like why I said, like why I used that example of something I wasn't expecting because, remember, I weren't really looking for that job yeah, I just did the description.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did, yeah, I had to go.
Speaker 2:I had to go back to and look oh, this is what I'm applied for yeah yeah, and since being there, like in this job now, like it's light and day, so I'm in a smaller trust, a smaller workplace, like support-wise I think there's only like 8,000 compared to 20,000. There's only one office I have to go into and it's more or less a straight train there. There's more flexibility there.
Speaker 2:Um, there's more flexibility so now myself with remote working I probably go in like once or twice a week and and it's the first we're working, so I do the school runs and thing to make time back, I make time back, or if I'm doing anything to be fair, you know, as long as you make the time back, it's fine and yeah it was also.
Speaker 2:It was a more of a welcoming place as well. No, I've only. I've only been there six months. What people think like, oh, what you seem like you've been there like longer than a year so no, I thank god for that. So I do have one question, do you?
Speaker 1:pray for those things specifically in your prayers as well, like the flexible time, like a safe environment. Did you pray for all of those things?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so definitely the flexibility for the family, the environment as well. Because what I found in the workplace before um, I wasn't really introduced to people, I was in a big organization and it goes back to the introvert thing.
Speaker 2:I wasn't going to approach people in that way because I couldn't yeah and because of that some people just thought oh he, oh, he's not an approachable person, it's just like, no, I was just dying inside in a big open-plan office. So with the next role, I wanted to make sure that, okay, I could actually try and speak to people or at least be shown everywhere, and my new manager actually did that straight away. She showed me to all the people that I actually need to speak to and I've built relationships that way. That's good, yeah. So, yeah, no, no, I thank God for that your prayer was answered.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with a job I wasn't even trying to go for, but we're here you know the anxiety is real when you're waiting for that call oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been through it too many times. It's difficult, but you know it's the faith thing as well. If it's for you, it's for you and yeah god's not going to give you something that isn't for you.
Speaker 2:So, even though the old job, like it, had its issues, but I was in that place of reason at that time- yeah yeah, and there's some people I've met from that job who I'm still in contact with now, and not necessarily from a work perspective, more personal, yeah. So there's always a reason, and it's to develop character as well.
Speaker 1:At the end of the day, when you're put in tough situations and you learn skills that you're able to bring into your new job. Exactly yeah skills that you was able to bring into your new job. Exactly, yeah, and my last and final question what advice would you give to men who struggle to pray consistently but desire a deeper relationship with yahweh? So, advice for men who struggle, who wants a deeper connection, deeper prayer connection.
Speaker 2:You struggle, to pray consistently. Okay, desire a. I was struggling. I would say just make it really, really simple. You have to be intentional. So, whether you need to set alarms for yourself to pray at least once a day, do that, but also have a have a set time so you mark this time where you're going to pray and it doesn't have to be long. Just be intentional about what you're praying about. Or even you could set yourself a schedule on topics of prayer you want to do each day and work through those each day, just to begin with. And then when it becomes like a routine, when it becomes like a routine, when it becomes like a habit, then you could move, you could develop on that. So let's say, for example, on a Monday, oh, I'm going to be praying about my faith. Tuesday, I'm going to be praying about my career and work. Wednesday, family, that type of thing and just say, okay, I'm going to commit to praying for a minute each day concerning that topic and just use that as a starting point.
Speaker 1:And then, when you get more confident in praying and the consistency being there as well by having that schedule, then, yes, you'll be able to develop and my question to go along with what you said, for men who literally struggle with their ego, maybe from their environment where they weren't brought up as a Christian. So it's just like he's not going to hear you or like you're weak if you believe in somebody that you can't see because I know that sometimes that is a lot for a man to deal with when, like, everything around you is just saying that you're not a man, you're not a man, you're not a man. How would you reach out to that person about the importance of prayer and just to continue without listening to society or the way you were brought up?
Speaker 2:I think it would be important to show scripturally, first, of men praying and showing their powerful that we're praying. Also, to remember that if God is saying that you should pray, if God is calling you to pray, then that's all that matters. Now, those around you. There will always be opinions, there will always be things that put us down because other people are comparing to the masses or what's seen as the norm. But I'd say to this person God isn't like everyone else. God has a specific role for everyone and we're all different. We've all got a part to play. So, yeah, I think, just taking it back to the word and showing those that like Daniel, like Daniel praying and his friends praying, showing that there's examples in the Bible of men praying and one of the greatest ones is Jesus praying. So I'll take it back to there and just to remember that I should focus on God and not those on the outside, because that's what's mainly important.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, jl, for your time and giving a point of view from Amanda and your experience. Where can people find you for your introvert? Is it pro introvert or I don't? Yeah, I'm hair butchering the name just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So at the moment it's just on youtube. Um, it's still in its infancy, so it's called praying introvert, or one or one word on um youtube.
Speaker 1:And yeah, you would, you'll find me there, and thank you once again. Thank you for our listeners. Hopefully you learned something. Please do share, as it's not just for men. As women, we could listen to this and be able to help our fellow brothers in Christ and outside of Christ as well. And so we'll see you soon, in the next two weeks, and thank you for tuning in.