Ep 19 - A Mans Battle with Abstinence

This episode explores a candid conversation with Isaac, who discusses his journey to rediscovering faith and navigate the complexities around sexual purity. The dialogue tackles societal pressures, the importance of accountability, and the challenge for men to maintain their faith while confronting temptations. 

• Isaac shares his background and initial experiences in faith 
• The impact of personal loss on the journey to discovering truth 
• Challenges of societal expectations regarding men and sexuality 
• Importance of accountability in maintaining purity 
• Practical advice for young men navigating peer pressure 
• The need for open discussions about faith and sexuality 
• Messages of hope and self-acceptance in God’s love 
• Encouraging community support among men of faith

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey Saints, and welcome back to the Unfiltered Christian podcast. Today we have a special guest called Isaac. So, Isaac, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background?

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Yeah, sure. So my name's Isaac, as Cece just mentioned. Um I I guess I was born and raised in the church, um, but I didn't actually have a great relationship with the church growing up. Um I just guess like many people I listened to what I was told, but I didn't really know God for myself. Um later on in my adulthood, I decided to come away and relearn Christianity for myself. Um I work with young people, young adults. Um I've always had quite a passion for working with kids. So I used to be a teacher, now I work as a youth worker. Um I'm into fitness and health. I do a lot of uh fitness related activities, whether it be personal training, martial arts, um, generally keeping fit, football, roller skating, dancing, etc. Um and you can roller skate. I can roller skate, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Rollerblade?

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Yes, I can do both. I prefer roller skating though.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Oh I see you. So you kind of touched on my second question a little bit. How did you come to know God and what has that journey been like for you thus far?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Um, so as I mentioned, um going up I used to just listen to what my parents told me and what the church told me in terms of um I'm a Seventh-day Adventist Christian, um, so they would tell me X, Y, and Z, then I just took it as the gospel. Um But then um in other words I started questioning certain things and people would just give me some flippant answers, and I was like, You're not even answering my question. Like, I want my actual question answered, please. Like, let me understand this. And and it I I guess essentially I came to realise they didn't really ask the questions that were necessary to answer and to be able to answer my question because they didn't even know the answer themselves. Um let me come away from this. So I came away from it. Um and yeah, like I said, I studied, I studied the Bible for myself, I spoke to some um Bible scholars, I spoke to some different people, um, I I even spoke to some people of a different taste, um, some Islamic people, not because I was losing my way. Um it's just, you know, I've got friends of all different backgrounds and we just shared, we just loved on each other, and we shared about God and we shared about our struggles and we shared about different things, and I realized that there's a lot of us, even though they're not Christian or some might be Jewish, some might be Hindus, even atheists. And we've all got similar struggles, we've all got similar struggles with life and um journey in life. Um but anyway, essentially what I've done is I unlearned a lot of things that were taught to me um to study them for myself, and I just became to the Bible, open-minded, really ready, and yeah, I questioned certain things, questioned certain pastors. Some people were receptive, some people were defensive. Um and yeah, I then started to develop a greater, stronger bond with God, which is much more important than me claiming I'm a seventh adventure Christian.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Okay, I like that. Was it hard for you to unlearn? Because when you being in the the faith by going by what your parents said and church, it becomes routine. Was it hard for you to unlearn all those years?

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Uh no, I wouldn't say it was hard for me. Simply because I'm a person that is very open-minded in general. So, with me, although I might believe X, Y, and Z, I'm open to the potentiality of there being another answer. Um, unless something is literally black and white, I was I'm always open to relearning something. So for me, it was more of a mindset issue. Um to be honest, I'll be honest with you, I think a lot of people are similar to me. The difference between myself and them is that they're led by fear, the fear of the unknown. Um, what does it mean if? Whereas I'm just like, I don't care, I'd rather know the truth than continue living this masardical life.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

I hear that. Were there any pivotal moments in your faith? In your I can ask this question. Were there any pivotal moments in your faith that deepen your relationship with God?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Uh yes, many. Um the one that comes to mind, I think, where I really connected the most with God was lockdown. Um so leading up to lockdown, I remember it happening on the Monday of March. Um, my birthday was the Friday, um, the 27th, and it happened on a Monday. Now I had so many things planned for my birthday. Um and I was ready to go and live up life. Like I mean be outside. I was I was ready outside, but I was ready for my birthday to be outside. Okay. Um in fact it ties into the topics that we're gonna be speaking on. But um, yeah, so I had a few things planned. Um and yeah, that lockdown hit. And I was vexed, man. I was like, oh, why? Why am I a birthday? Why can't I come Monday after? Like I wanted to enjoy.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

The lockdown was in February, you know, but I didn't know it's for us, it started in March.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

Yeah, it was March for us. Um so when it hit now, um, obviously um some people were still outside travelling, keyworkers, etc. But um due to my mum's health, um I weren't travelling, I stayed home. Um and I was looking after my mum and just making sure my mum's good and I weren't mixing and mingling with anyone because my mum's extremely vulnerable based on her health. Um so I was literally banned to my mum. I was like, cool.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

Cool. This ain't happening.

SPEAKER_02 6:51

Um I got uh phone call. Um my mum received a phone call saying that my cousin passed away. Now, my cousin passed away due to um COVID. But she was in that house and she was she was, you know, in her early fifties, but she was in that house. And I was like, what's going on? How are they claiming it's COVID when she literally stayed home?

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

But the part that hit me was I was planning to be out there in the streets, go to link this woman, enjoy life with these women, enjoy life. And I said, My cousin is in her yard and her life was taken. I could be out here doing the most, and whether it be en route to going to do the most or en route coming from doing the most, I could have lost my life. I could have lost my life, I might I probably wouldn't have repented in that moment. I probably would have done myself, enjoyed my life and been like here, cool. But lo and behold, I could have died. Then when she died, and it hit me, I was like, I'm playing with fire. I literally am playing with fire here. What's going on? What really is going on? So yeah, it was that situation that really woke me up, and I said, Yeah, I need to I need to get right, I need to start learning more about God. Um, maybe this was his sign to me to say, wake up. Like, obviously, I don't think he deliberately chose for my cousin to be the one who passed away, but it was someone close to me that really made me realize I'm playing with fire.

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Like tomorrow is not guaranteed.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Literally, tomorrow is not guaranteed. I'm planning for my future, like say I'm the maker of my future, my plan. Um lo and behold, yeah. It was that that situation that made me just stand still and say, I need to get right. I'm not gonna I'm not trying to claim that I've got them right since then in totality, but I definitely grew a lot closer to God in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

And amen for that. Amen. So we're gonna dive into our topic of discussion. And this is for the bandum. We're gonna be talking about sex. And um, the first question why do you think so many men find it challenging to abstain from sex until marriage?

Navigating Parenting and Sex Education

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Um, oh, good question. And I don't know if I can answer this for uh all men, but I would say generally speaking, um it's in our nature. We are designed by God who procreate. Like it literally is in our nature. We are we are the go-getters, we are the the ones that go out to get um and we desire and we act on logic. Our logic is that we know we we desire this, we know that we want this, we know that it feels nice. Even as a virgin before you've even had sex, you know it's something that will feel nice. Um and naturally, your eyes don't lie, you see what you like, right? So you see a woman, nice curved, attractive. Um especially if you already tasted it. If you've already tasted it, and you know how good it feels, you know how enjoyable, you know how satisfying. Um, yeah. It's very hard. It's very hard to abstain because at the end of the day, that's not your natural go-to. Your natural go-to is to procreate. Once you get puberty, your natural go-to now is to co-create, is to desire it. It isn't to fast from it. It is the very opposite. The fasting from it, the abstaining from it, is a matter of discipline. Um but we're we're we're not we're not trained to be disciplined. We're we're not trained by nature to be disciplined in that regard. We're trained by nature to be go-getters, to be providers, protectors, to go out to seek, to go for what you want, for what you desire. From a young age, you're trained, it's innate in you. It's it's developed in you from what you do, whether you're trying to play sports, whether you're going to learn education, whether you're going to, you know, protect, whether you're going to look after your body, whether it be through martial art, through you're you're trained to go and be advancing in that. So there's different facets of how it can play um can play a part in why when it comes to sex now, why men naturally don't wish to abstain.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Naturally, it's not our nature to you know it's so funny you saying that because I don't I'm gonna ask I'm gonna ask you guys a question. Um but like for women it's kind of like you're taught to wait until you're married, or for those who are non-religious, you're told to wait until you find somebody that values and respects you. And I guess what you're saying is that that's not taught to you guys, so it's kind of like how do you yeah. I never actually thought about that for you guys as well.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Yeah, it's not, it's not even with the thing you just mentioned when what like my sisters and stuff, it's always the ladies that are taught, do not come home pregnant, do not come home pregnant. Make sure you're not men told that. We're not mainly told do not come. Because number one, we're not the ones bringing the child home.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Now, this isn't me saying right or wrong. This is me just saying, literally, hey, actually, as parents, we can do better. We can tell the young boys, we can tell our son, be careful with what you're doing. Even though you're not the one bringing the child home, understand that your child is a product of you. And your child is a product of their experience. So if you go out and you start having sex and you get a woman pregnant, and you're not there as a father figure in that child's life, number one, that child is a very high probability of having major detriment in their life because of you being an absent father, irrespective of how great or not the mother is. And there's not enough training, there's not enough education around that from parenting to young boys. That's not me saying that young boys are the problem, because I don't think young boys are the problem, or even young adult males are the problem. I'm not saying that, I'm just saying I'm saying actually, as parents, as adults, we can do a lot more and we can eliminate this taboo of not talking about sex in the church as well.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Correct. Correct. I'd I have a side note question, um, because it is a question that a lot of single mums do ask. Um obviously the dad is not around, but you um obviously this is just a general answer because number one, you're not a doctor and we're tethered. But I have a lot of mum. I have a lot of mums who have children that is the age of between five to six, and their child is now getting a record, and they don't know how to deal with it or what to tell them because they don't have a man to explain what is going on, and it's kind of like don't touch it, leave it alone. What advice and what can you tell them for the for the single mums out there and that are dealing with that alone?

SPEAKER_02 15:01

So the child is getting erections from the age of five, six.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah.

Navigating Men's Sexual Purity Pressures

SPEAKER_02 15:06

Um, one thing I will say is that it's important to understand um that you as a parent have the opportunity of being your child's first teacher. You as a parent being the child's first teacher have the opportunity to deliver the lessons in the best way that you feel possible, catered to their age. So if your child's six, you know how to speak to them. If your child's 13, you know how to speak to them. Rather than them getting educated by the outside world or by school, you be that teacher. Um so my first thing would be to every parent out there, don't run away from that duty of parenting and teaching. Um, being a single mum, you okay, you don't know what it feels like to have an erection, but you know what it is. Educate your child and let your child know that this is part of their life as they get older. It's the same age a mum, a single mum will talk to a uh daughter about periods and about discharge and about, you know, all the bodily fluids and functions of a woman. Why can't you do that with a son? Just because you do not have a penis doesn't mean that you can't speak on it. You might not be able to state how it feels, but you know what it's there for. You know what it does. So at the end of the day, I feel just be confident enough, read do some research on it, read up on it, um, go to the GP, go to a doctor, go to a professional, a medical professional, speak to your brothers, speak to the um the child's uncles, with the granddad around, speak to the granddad. If you do not feel comfortable as a woman, speak to a male figure who is family or, like I said, the GP. And there's many ways in which you can, you know, deliver that knowledge. I do think though, it would be nicer coming from the actual parents. In this case, you're talking about single mothers. So I think it'll be nicer coming from the single mum, irrespective of the fact that she is a woman. Deliver the knowledge to your child, to your son, and let him know what it is and what it functions in a child appropriate manner.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Do you know what it is? I think for us, and I'm not speaking for all women, but it's kind of like when you see that, we didn't know about that until you became like sexually active, or when you're learning about it. So when when you see your child have it, even though you know it's natural and there's nothing sexual going on, it's kind of like, oh, like how do you address this? Because our mind just knows it in one way. Do you know what I mean? Whether it's just a natural thing happening.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

That's what I'm saying. Do your research on it, read up on it. Yeah. Even though yes, it is natural, but it's also not only natural, it's also very healthy. It's actually very healthy, it's healthier that a child is waking up with an erection every morning, for instance. That is actually very healthy, it means your blood flow is very good, very strong. So, you know, you I mean, obviously, you're not gonna get into this scientific detail with a six-year-old. No, you're not. But at the end of the day, you knowing that and you being able to relay as much information concisely across to that young child, it'd be better for it. And then it'd probably be more comfortable hearing it coming from a parent. Like a six-year-old boy, I can only imagine when I was six, if although I had my mum and dad both around, if I had my mum telling me that information, I'd be a lot more comfortable and more relaxed hearing it from my mother than hearing it from a GP or even hearing it from um someone else. Even if it's family, I'd still be more comfortable hearing it from my mum, if not my dad. Like my dad's not a reason to hearing it from my mum. 100% I'd be more comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 19:03

Thank you for that. So back to our topic. Um how do societal pressures and cultural norms influence men's decisions regarding sexual purity?

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Oh, cultural pressures, societal norms. Well, cultural pressures, man. We know that as a man you're praised when you're out there doing the most you know, having sex with women. You're praised. Um for various reasons.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

But you are you're encouraged to absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

Um some some men, the younger you speak, oh you're the men. Some men if you write, some men are looked at left, like what you still heard you? And some men are actually praised. And I respect that. I respect that. So it it's it's it's a weird one. I think um cultural pressures, man, is something that everyone navigates. Some people go out and come out the other side very strong and they've withstood any of the cultural pressures. And then you get the societal norms which tie into the cultural pressures. Society again, society depicts men to again be the go-getters, to be experienced in this. Even if you've never had sex before and you have sex for your first time, we're supposed to know what we're doing. Like, that is like, why should I know what I'm doing? Like, I've never been taught this. I've there's no a m there's not a manual, not every woman's the same. Every woman's not going, what I've done wrong, you know, in my head with this woman, I'm not trying to now bring this to reality, it may not work because actually despite what I've done with this woman in my head, or even if I've watched them uh, you know, adult movies, yeah, it it just isn't real.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Do you know what? I'm laughing while you said that, because where do we get that from? That yeah, you're you're a man, you're meant to know. You're meant to know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

It's not, it's not I don't know. I don't know. You tell me, I'm the man, you're the woman. Why don't you wanna get that from the question on you?

SPEAKER_00 21:34

Because as you said, the society society norms that a man knows everything to a certain extent, so it's kind of like because he's meant to be the dominant one, he must know what he's doing.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

Yeah. And some people get confused with dominance and experience and knowledge. Like you can be dominant naturally, or you can learn how. To become dominant, but you can still be a novice in this area. Like it's something that's new to you. There are many men that are very, very confused when they first have sex. Not only are they confused, but they're scared, they're anxious, they're nervous. They don't know if this is supposed to feel right. They don't know if they're doing it right. They don't know so many things are going through their heads. It's only afterwards when you become a little a little bit or a lot more experienced, so you're like, oh, I've got this in the bag in your head, or you genuinely do have this in the bag, you know? And um, you start to realise, okay, this is what works for me.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

Cool, what works for her?

Overcoming Sexual Temptations and Addictions

SPEAKER_02 22:42

And then, yeah, I guess if you become more open to conversing about it, you can speak to people who are also like-minded, open, and then cultural pressures actually dim. So norms don't affect you as much, and you're not as captivated by these two huge impacting influences. Um you become your own person. I remember growing up, I was pretty late in losing my virginity. Um, and I was okay with that. I knew I didn't want to be that guy who just went out and done it with any and any chick just because I did. I was content with holding myself down. Um and then when I eventually did something, I was like, whoa, nice, that's amazing. Um but yeah, and I I didn't allow the influences of society or culture to debit what choices that I was gonna make.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

But I've always been pretty headstrong when it comes to making my own decisions for myself and not being led by what advice would you give to young boys in school dealing with peer pressure to have sex?

SPEAKER_02 24:07

Okay, the advice I'll give to young boys um in school is don't succumb to the pressure. Um I know it's easier said than done. And I know you may be teased, I know you may be, you know, taunted. Um, but be content with your own decision. Um if there's someone that you can trust and you can go to for advice, go to them. Lean on them for their wisdom. I will never forget the day um when I was teaching um in my secondary school that I used to teach at. And a group of the 11 boys came up to me. I was on duty in uh it was either break or lunch, I can't remember, but I was on duty on the front courts, and a group of maybe nine kids, nine boys all came up to me. And you know, boys will be boys. Some of them are like, oh, I'll take you on in a fight. Oh sir, I'm fucking you, you know, boys will be boys. And it's always done. I was like, okay, here we go. What is it, guys? What is it? And I was like, no, so can we have uh honest conversation here? I was like, of course, always. And then I was like, alright, so I don't know if I'm gonna get in trouble, but I hope I can just say this to you. I was like, you know what? The fact that you're even asking, no matter what it is, you won't get in trouble. If it's something inappropriate, I will say to you that I won't answer. And at that point, you respect it and we move on. It was like I'm planning to go to uni um after college. But I'm a virgin and I want to remain a virgin. Do you know how taken aback I was privileged I felt knowing that these young adult males, these young boys, men in the making came up to me and trusted me enough to ask me about I wasn't learning. I was just like, wow, literally taken back and I said, you know what? I've got mad respect and love for you lot. And then I said, cool. That's the one day, you're going to be tempted. You're right, you're you're in adolescent years, puberty, you're gonna be tempted naturally by your own bodies. Forget about even women. Because that's what people need to understand. People think it's the women are tempting us more, so we're tempting ourselves. The whole thing that are kind of on in our bodies, our temptation enough. Whether women are involved or not, we're already tempted. And I said this to them, I said, you're already going to be experiencing whether you already masturbate or not, you're gonna be experiencing the desire. Then you're gonna be trying to challenge that and channel that energy and say nope, or okay, cool, I'll succumb to it. And then you're gonna be like, all right, cool, how do I stay away? And I said to them, I'm not telling you to not have a girlfriend, I can't. I'm not telling you to not talk to women, I can't. What I'm saying is if you know full well that you do not want to engage in this activity, then whatever you need to do to distract yourself is going to be your best friend. Whether that be go and separate yourself, whether that be fasting, whether that be praying, whether that be, you know, socializing in massive groups, whether that be just sticking to your home, it doesn't whatever it is, you need to do what's practical. Um so that's what I'd say to the to the young boys, same advice. I'll say if you want to abstain, yeah, do something that's practical to keep yourself away, man. But speak to someone, speak to someone that you trust.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

Oh, it must have been a proud moment as well. Definitely was um, and this is the these answers are not just to young men, men, men in general. Long or male, depending where you are in your life, uh um just the way how we did it, but you know, the holy spirit waiting for not if it's it's the male as well. And then you women listen in you can pass on. Um, how can young men, clash men, stand firm in their faith and values, especially when they feel alone in their convictions?

SPEAKER_02 28:33

Um firstly, I would say remember that you are human and by that you are a sinner and God loves you. So, regardless of any backsliding or any conviction you feel you're making that are wrong, don't beat yourself up for it. Just turn to God and continue to consult with God, have that conversation with God. Don't worry about what other people are gonna say, don't worry about how other people are judging you. Most importantly, don't worry about how you're judging yourself, because again, people forget, we are our own worst critics. We we we literally judge ourselves the most. Um but yeah, to stand strong, um, how can you stand strong in your faith? If you just stay determined, I guess, would be my answer. Stay determined, have a goal, and that isn't a time um oriented goal. Um, just have a goal, just say, I'm going to do this, and fixate your mind on doing it. Fixate your mind on doing it. I I believe that genuinely, if you want to do anything in this world, you'll do it. You'll do it. Once once you want to do it, you'll do it. You just need to stay strong mentally, and then you're good.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

You know you're answering all my questions. You're trying to mean okay. I was not asked.

SPEAKER_02 29:57

I'm sorry, I'll go. Sorry, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Okay, but many who feel like they've failed God by giving into temptation. Whether that be lie or masturbation or actually having um, how would you or even just what important porn or thinking about it? All of these things are all linked in some way or another. Um how would you encourage them to move forward?

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Well, we're gonna let's move it down.

SPEAKER_00 30:25

So, how would you move forward with if you're addicted to porn? How would you move forward if you're constantly masturbating uh masturb masturbating, sorry, and if you're having sex? Okay, or even or even foreplay.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

So, like I've already said, I think part of my answer was already given. Um not to beat yourself up, go back to God, repent, speak to God, um, learn the Bible for yourself, learn what the Bible actually says about sex and if it actually talks about certain things that we've maybe been taught that it does talk about. Um that's something else that I done. Um I actually went and studied it and tried to understand where do certain things come from and all the rest of it. But if you've got an addiction, now this is where um again I am not a doctor. I I'm not going to profess as though I'm perfect or as if I know all the answers. Um, but if you've got an addiction, I think number one, the first and foremost thing that you need to understand is acknowledgement of said addiction. If you're in the middle that you're not addicted to whether it'd be sex, masturbation, um, pornography, then you're never gonna overcome it. Like that's just first and foremost, and that's with any addiction, pretty much. You need to acknowledge that feedback. Um once you do acknowledge that you have got this problem and you identify it as a problem, as something that you do want to overcome at least, um, I think then you can start doing the groundwork to overcome. So you've got this um addiction. What what's stemming it? What's your triggers for it? Why are you doing it? Um what what what's encouraging you? So I'll be a bit personal for myself. There was a time in my life where um rather than going out to have sex with women, I would um I would engage in masturbation. Why? Because it would deter me from going out to have sex.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

It literally curved the desire. So I said, I'd rather do that and not go to check anyone as a single man than not do it and go and check this woman, that woman, her, as a single man. I just said no, I don't want to not. And it literally said that's what I was doing. I was doing that for a long time, and it worked. It absolutely worked. Once I finished myself, I was good, I was relaxed, I was okay. Um, that's not a method that I would necessarily advise other people to do, um, because I then fell into a point where I wouldn't say I was addicted to it, but I was content and I was happy with that. And it was something that um it wasn't an addiction, but it became a pattern, and I wasn't overcoming any desire to not do something, I was just monsking it with something else. So I then had to seek out okay, now how do I overcome this now? Because I've just turned one issue into another issue.

SPEAKER_01 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:54

How do I overcome this? For me, honestly, so in my life I've abstained three times. Three times. Two of those times were in a relationship, uh, where, bearing in mind, in those relationships, I was already sexually active. And then I decided, no, I think we should stop having sex. And I abstained.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Um was it hard to abstain?

SPEAKER_02 34:22

Um actually. Um so one time was for two years. Um we were together for I think six years in total. Um was that one hard? I wouldn't say it was hard. Um no, but I also knew I wasn't really wanting to be with her anymore anyway. Um, so it kind of made it easier.

SPEAKER_01 34:48

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Um, and then another time, um, which uh I was with her for longer, and that was for two and a half years. Um, and that time I did want to stay with her. Um and abstaining wasn't hard, but there's an irony to this for me. So we were, she was living with me. She was living with me. We would sleep together in turn in the same bed, um, we even showered together. We're abstaining, nothing was happening. Literally nothing, right?

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Public announcement. I'm not advising this, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

He's just giving his own personal experience. Right. And because it was it was a weird one because the problem for me was when she wasn't in the house, it was harder.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

The desire to not do anything was stronger. And I was like, what? When she was next to me, the presence alone was enough.

unknown 36:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

But when she wasn't next to me, the absence alone made me either want to find her sex with her or mash on it. Which was very good for me. Now and then I will say, as a disclaimer, I'm not trying to say to any listeners, go and do that for yourselves. No. I'm just speaking of my own personal experience and how somehow it worked for me. It's not something that I would, you know, go out to try and do right now if that I'm single right now, but let's say if I go in a relationship, I'm not going to actively say to the woman, oh, come live with me. Oh, let's abstain. No. It literally just happened authentically, naturally, um, and somehow it worked. But um, another time I was I was single, and I was abstaining, and I abstained for a year. Um, and again, I it wasn't hard. It wasn't hard. I was studying, I was studying the Bible as well, so studying as in education, um, academia, and then studying the Bible, I was having great conversations around all sorts of things, so not just sex, um, from a biblical standpoint. I was studying the Bible, I was studying different things like forgiveness, like patience, love, um fruits of the spirit. I see, I didn't want to say fruits of the spirit because it wasn't all of them and it wasn't even planned. It wasn't even planned, it was just some of those things. Um but yeah, we were studying different things, studying um characters, SR, Jacob, you name it, like so it I was always preoccupied. I was always preoccupied and I was always um attentive to something greater than myself.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Would you ever say that like prayer like praying to help you abstain and to not go back has helped um praying to abstain and not go back has helped.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Yeah, I would. I would. Um and if any listeners are wondering why I wasn't hesitant to answer, it's because um a lot of the times I I don't want to get caught with this ideology of praying is the answer. Because you can pray, but you may not even be convicted in your prayer. And that's why I was hesitant to answer, because I know in the past I've prayed, but I've actually just prayed to tick a box. I've not actually been praying because I genuinely wanted the outcome. In fact, I wanted the very opposite outcome. I was praying anyway, because I quote unquote nothing to do.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Can we click for that? Can we click for that? Because you know what? You've knocked the nail on the head, which is prayer comes with actions, but you also need to be convicted. That's deep.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Um you you I said again, people say oh prayer's powerful. And then controversially, I don't necessarily say prayer is powerful, I say prayer is in the prayer, which is God.

SPEAKER_01 39:20

God prayer prayer in and of itself, I can pray to my laptop. Like, no, it's not is it powerful? No.

SPEAKER_02 39:34

So prayer in and of itself isn't powerful. There are people that pray to witches. They're witches, they're like, I don't necessarily conform to prayer is powerful, but I do conform to there's power in prayer, which is God, God is the power, right? So you've got to be convicted, you've got to believe, you've got to be determined and dedicated to what you're praying for and praying about. That's what I would definitely say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

Okay. So rolling on to my next question: what role does accountability play in helping men stay strong in their commitment to purity?

SPEAKER_02 40:10

I think accountability is everything. You have to be accountable. If you're not, you're you're only fooling yourself, and then eventually you're gonna be fooling the next victim who you're pretending to be. Like let's keep this real. We're we're actually saying to someone, oh, that's one that all the while, you know, deep team. That's not your motive. Your motive isn't even as same. Your motive like one thing about myself, um, I've been very transparent and honest with women. If I'm not there, where they've said, Oh, I'm abstaining from marriage, and I'm not there. I've been like, listen, I respect that highly. I'm not in the same place right with you right now. Like, I'm not actually looking to have things. It doesn't mean that I'm actively trying to have sex with her. It just means I'm just not in that place. And that's one thing I think men, women, all need to be accountable. But for this point that you're asking men, yeah, just be accountable. Be accountable, know what you're doing, know where you're at, you know, um, know what you're trying to achieve. If if you're struggling with any of those things, be accountable to yourself first and foremost, and take that to God and you know, have a conversation with God. You know, write things down, journal it, see if there's triggers, see if there's patterns, see if there's something that you can do to alleviate the stress in different ways, get active. Um a big issue, not issue, a big natural cause is our testosterone levels. Exert that in other things, you know, sit there, go go do something physical, go to the gym, better yourself, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yeah, I like that. Um, how can men identify and break cycles of sin they keep falling back into?

SPEAKER_02 41:59

Uh again, falls into the same question of accountability.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You keep answering my questions at the end.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

Um, yeah, you don't need to be accountable, really. You need to be accountable and self-reflective. Like if you're able to reflect on what you're doing and what you've what you've gone through, what you've achieved, what you're struggling with, I think ultimately you'll be able to then say, okay, cool. This is how I can break this. This is my trigger. Okay, it's when I'm alone, or oh, it's when it gets to this point, or oh, it's when I've not done this yet in my day. So now I need to I need to go for a run, I need to go for a job, I need to, I don't know. Some people say taking cold showers, I mean, that never works for me. That's a myth. But like to each other, everyone's got different things that, you know, trigger them, everyone's got different things that alleviate them. Find something new. Also, do not listen to even myself. Don't listen to my advice. My advice works for me. Don't listen to my advice as if it's the gospel, is what I'm saying. Go and learn for yourself. Speak to others, see what if their method might help you. Something I'm saying might actually make you backtrack. And it might be like, oh no, no, no, no, I can't take this man's advice. And that's absolutely fine. You go to someone else. Learn it from yourself. Don't even go to someone else. Just learn yourself. Ultimately, that's the point here. Learn yourself. Learn what works for you.

SPEAKER_00 43:35

My next question is what practical steps can you say or encourage men that they're young kings and you do you do have a worth. Like that doesn't mean like you don't you don't have to go around and speak with every girl. Like if you want to just wait, just like that. What can you say? On a high pedestal, how could you encourage men that you you know you are a king?

SPEAKER_02 44:06

Um well, first and foremost, I think the main thing to be here is love yourself, love who you are. That doesn't mean be arrogant, it doesn't mean you know, be self-centered, it means look after yourself. Um, irrespective of society and you know, even cultural norms, raising us like kings if we do go around and sleep with X amount of women, be careful because there are diseases out here. And some of these diseases are lifelong. Some of these diseases, if you read up and do your knowledge, aren't ones that whether they're lifelong or not, aren't ones that you're gonna be comfortable with. You know? So it's not just about being able to tick boxes and say, Yeah, I'm the man. It's about looking after yourself. Hygiene is important, you know. If you are sexually active, go get yourself tested. Go get yourself, you owe it to yourself, you owe it to your next partner, go get yourself tested. Um but I would say, you know, just believe in who you are and understand what it is that you're doing and why you're doing it. At the end of the day, no one's going to know what you're gonna do except for yourself and the person you're doing it with, or the people you're doing it with. Um people will judge you, but don't worry about people judging you because we're all guilty out here. Like, none of us are perfect. So don't worry about the judge and the ones judging you. Judge yourself and look back on yourself and say, Oh, are you happy with what you're doing? If if a woman, sorry, if your daughter knows, if your daughter were to look at you as her father and knowing what you're doing, would she be okay? Would you be okay with the way that you treat women if your daughter was treated that way? You know? And then certain things, even if you continue, like let's call a spade a spade. I'm not expecting no man to the But if you do continue sleeping around or whatever, the manner in which you might do it, i.e., you might have initially been blindsiding women, but now you might be a lot more transparent and say, hey, I don't want any relationship from this. You're not gonna lead them on. They can make their own informed choices. I don't think there's an answer that I can give which is spoken perfect. I think again it's something that's about self-reflection and accountability and understand understanding why you're doing it and the potential domino effect it may cause or have, and a ripple effect it may have, not only on yourself, but on the individuals that you're messing with. And if it's something that you can live with, then hey.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

How can men support each other in their walk with God, especially when it comes to purity?

SPEAKER_01 47:09

Talk him.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

I know I know men generally feel a lot safer with other men. Um talking to other men and opening up with other men. It's not in totality because there are still men that still feel afraid to do so because you know, or be ashamed or being looked at as we but generally when met when we come together as men, the bond, the brotherhood, the connection, it's mad. The energy is crazy, it's good, it's strong. And I would encourage men go out there, speak again, come to church. The church that I go to, the church that I attend, one of the main reasons why I gravitate to it, and it's nowhere near my house. It's it's over an hour away, both going to and coming from. Um but the reason why I go there is simply because of that togetherness, that openness, that that bravado where the men, and and it's also the women to be fair, but I'm talking about the men. The men we come together, we're we're transparent with each other, we're open, we're we connect. There's none of this, oh, let's be pretentious. I mean, there's been points where certain people have come into the church and been pretentious, oh, I never kissed my wife until I married her. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:30

Okay. Like one of the answers, like, okay, cool. And people might say this might be the truth. It might be the truth, but you still have temptation. Can we just keep this real? Can you just keep this real? Like, all this acting as though, you know, you're perfect, it's never gonna help any of us because we ain't perfect. And we're not coming from a place of perfection, we're coming from a place of imperfection. So when we see that, you know what, you who is pastor, you who is head elder, head guild deacon, you who have been coming to this church for many years are still just as human as you. There's more of a connection. There's more of a comfort of, you know what? You who I look up to are struggling just like I am. I see myself in you. I'm more connected. And the church that I go to, that's what happens. There's a lot of transparency, a lot of honesty. So I'd advise men, you know, find a place where you can be transparent, where you can be open, where you can be vulnerable with other men.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

And I I'm pretty sure that, yeah, they'd uh they'd they'd appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 49:51

Even though you didn't do it this time, but you brought in chat as my next question. Um do you believe the church is doing enough to address these challenges for men?

SPEAKER_02 49:59

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Well, why not?

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Not at all, not at all. Again, it's the topic is taboo. I think there's been times where churches have started programs talking on it, um, but again, even those programs aren't always authentic, they're very mechanical, they're very too often too structured, it's we can't be open, we can't be honest, we can't say, oh, uh, I'm just horny. It's a sin. That's not. It's not a sin. It's not a sin to say, I'm hoping. It's not a sin to say I'm roasting. It's not a sin to say, do you know what? I've come to church to look for a woman who I'm attracted to. I've come to church to look for a man who I'm attracted to. Where's I'm going to find them in the church? But I believe in God and they believe in God. That it may we may not be totally equally yoked, but at least there's a starting point, a foundation. Um, I don't think the church is doing enough. Um, I think often we focus on things that are comfortable for us. So we'll talk and we'll preach about, you know, the second coming of Christ. We'll talk and we'll preach about David and Goliath, we'll talk and preach about Noah, we'll talk and preach about, you know, Esther or or you name it. Like you name the fact that you name the parable, you name the story, you name whatever you want to name. We'll talk and preach about it. But topics that we're struggling with, day in day are mental health, um temptation, um, addiction, um, sex, uh anything where uh adultery adultery, like any anything where it's like, whoa, don't make the church look bad. We don't we don't, we don't.

SPEAKER_01 51:45

And it's like we need to, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 51:53

It is true. There is no love. That's what's missing. Um it's just a straight whipping. And I think that's that is what's missing rather than I don't know that for you as you're situation it's completely different with a young person came into the struggle with this. Like you're able to tell them out of love, what is wrong, what is right, how to um navigate it rather than kind of like you shouldn't be doing that. Like, what are you doing? Rather than as you said, you know, the Lord created intimacy. Um it's not wrong, but that's the correct way of how it's not which is allowed. Um it's it really made me open my eyes because I have put a lot of uh like pressure on men. Does that make sense? Without me even realizing? Um yeah, it's the next question. How has your own faith helped you navigate challenges in this area?

Living Authentically

SPEAKER_02 53:16

Um, good question. Um my own faith safe has helped me because I believe in God and God is my judge. Um I do not care about who knows who I am, I do not care about who judges me. I I'm not I'm not fearful, I'm not frightened, I'm not bothered, I don't say the things I say to offend, I don't say the things I say to lead anyone else astray, I don't share my testimonies or my struggles or my victories to let the next person go through the exact same thing. I share it because it's the truth. It's my truth.

SPEAKER_01 53:51

Oh, you do give my testimony, yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:54

Absolutely. Absolutely, I do. Um I'm talking on them and I'm sharing it here. I don't know if you've listened. I'm pretty sure people are listening in who know me, or even know my voice, they've seen my name, and they'll know what I'm referring to when I've said certain things about the church. They all know who I am, and I've got nothing to hide, I've got no problems. Because at the end of the day, I know I'm accountable to myself and God. And regardless of who I put a smirk screen over, God Himself knows and sees everything. So I don't need to wear makeup. I came to a point a long time in my life where I said, why am I wearing makeup? Because once I wipe it all away, the truth will always be revealed anyway. And even though I'm putting on this facade to Cece, God still sees the truth and knows the truth. So why not just be honest from the get-go?

unknown 54:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

And that's the way I choose to live my life. And I'm I'm not saying everyone should do that, because I also know that sometimes there is a backlash, um, and not everyone can handle the backlash. Like, if someone was to now come back and say to me, if they see me, oh, you should have said X, Y, and Z, or oh, I don't believe in what you've said, I'll be okay with dealing with that. And I'll say, listen, I've made it clear in my disclaimers, I'm not telling any listener to do what I've done. I'm not telling any listener to go about blah blah blah. I'm gonna be honest. I'm not gonna be afraid to share the truth that I've gone through.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Your truth and struggle, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:28

Absolutely. So yeah, I'm okay. So I would say, you know, just just be connected with God and be concerned first and foremost with your relationship with God. That's what I would say. That's what matters, in my opinion. You and God.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

My last question, which you just answered. Mad is what message of hope or encouragement would you like to share with men who are struggling to live God's standards?

SPEAKER_02 56:00

Um, I would say, irrespective of what you think of yourself and what others may think of you, just know that you were chosen by God. He's chosen us, he's chosen you. Um, you have a purpose. At the end of the day, God ended this world by a flood. He ended the world because of sin. I would I I'm I'm I won't alive back then, but the way of what I've seen the world going through and the things that we do in this world today, I would argue that there's probably a lot more sin and horrible things going on today in this day and age that go against God's plan more so than yesteryear from the Bible days. Um, and it's just that he's promised us that he ain't gonna end the world in the same way again, like that, but he he hasn't done it. Otherwise, I think yeah, there probably would have been another flood to get rid of all of this nonsense. Um I share that to say you are still here. You still have a chance, you still have a chance to get it right. You know, irrespective of all the atrocities that are happening, you're still here, we're still here, I'm still here. Yes, there are things that I willingly do, and I believe, okay, I probably shouldn't do it, and I still do it anyway. And yes, there are times I take things for granted, absolutely, and I shouldn't be doing that. But one thing I do know is that I am loved and that God favors me. And even though I don't deserve it, even though you don't deserve it, CeCe, even though any listener, you don't deserve it, you've still got another chance. So the encouragement I'd offer all of you listening, all you young men, all of you men that are listening in, just focus on God and focus on what you're convicted to do. Because you'll be judged by your convictions.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

Anything else you would like to add before we close?

SPEAKER_02 58:13

Um no, no, no, no. Um, I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed your questions, I've enjoyed spending this time with you, so thank you very much. It's been um an eye-opener for myself as well. I've thoroughly enjoyed this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

And he'll be back because I've got another question to ask him for another episode, so this won't be the last you'll hear his way. But thank you so much for coming on our panel. And thank you guys for listening.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

Thank you.