Ep 40 - Navigating Disability In Church

We respond to a listener question about disability and the church, and we get honest about the gap between “access” and true belonging. We share personal stories from visual impairment and hearing loss to challenge churches to plan weekly for inclusion, not once a year. 

• wheelchair access as a good start but not the finish 
• visual impairment challenges with glare and unreadable screen text 
• needing support on the pulpit without shame or awkwardness 
• disability being overlooked in platform roles and church participation 
• sign language for services and livestream church accessibility 
• baptisms and the need for hoists or alternative accessible pools 
• practical ideas like better seating options and clearer communication 
• biblical examples of radical inclusion and honour 
• respecting invisible disabilities and normalising “What support do you need?” 
• pushing for action with prayer rather than getting shut down 

Transcript

Listener Question And Why It Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Shalom, shalom saints, and welcome back to the Unfiltered Christian podcast. I'm Cece and I'm Shay. And today we have a listener who has sent us in some questions. So we're gonna answer them in different episodes. So she's asked navigating disability as a Christian and churches' attitudes towards disability. And I think this is excellent because Shay and I have different disabilities, and I think from we can both answer it differently. I'm far removed from the church building, so Shay can answer more towards that. And yeah, let's dive into it.

Access In The Building And Gaps

Visual Impairment And Screen Visibility

Inclusion Beyond Access And Participation

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Let's go. I don't know. It's a tough one. Just because I don't I don't feel that I see enough being done in the church for well, I'll just speak on our church. I don't see enough being done for those with disabilities. But then again, um I could be wrong. Let's let's start with the simple stuff. So our building, if we're talking about the physical, our building is adaptable to support those with any type of wheelchair needs. So we have a different entrance that is a flat surface for those to enter in. So I can say that that's a good thing. We do have a um a day called Possibilities Ministries Day, which is linked to those with any type of what is the phrase that someone told me recently because I was told I said the wrong thing. Anyways, yeah, those are different disabilities, but I don't really know what that day really does, to be honest, for anybody with a disability. Yeah, I just feel like it's a day that goes straight over my head, and I don't see what use it brings, if that makes any sense. It might sound harsh, but I just don't see what it does. And then also we've got like spaces, spaces are created for those to enter into the sanctuary. So we do have doors and entrances for anyone with wheelchair needs to be able to enter the sanctuary, and we also have disabled toilets. So I guess like our building itself has been adapted well in regards to those with like any type of physical needs in regards to walking or not being able to have the ability to necessarily walk. I don't really know. For me, my disability is visual impairment, and for me, there's no adaptability for someone with my needs, even though like on the screens, the words are there, but a lot of the churches I go to, the screens are not very clear. It looks like really, it's not really uh clear, it's not very bold. Well, specifically in my church, like it's very hard to see. The the windows is sometimes reflecting onto the wall space, so like I can't see the words of the hymn. So a lot of the time I have to use my phone, and I feel like I guess I'm just one person, so maybe that's why the change might not want to be made. But I've made the suggestion many times that we should get like blinds to certain windows within the sanctuary, especially in the summertime because the glare is so much onto the pulpit, and it can affect how those in the pulpit see the screen that's in front of them at the back of the church, but also affect those who are trying to look at the screen. Um, so I feel like there is others who wear glasses, but still they might still need that kind of support or adjustment with like being able to see the hymn on the screen. Um, and I don't know if it affects them, but for me, it's something that I don't think it's I don't know. I don't think others think about it. I think sometimes people forget that I have a disability, which is okay. Like I don't expect you to mention it all the time, but I have to think about that every time I'm being asked to go on the pulpit. So for example, when I did a welcome, it used to be really hard for me. I struggled a lot because if I say if there's any first-time visitors, I can't see the hands being raised from the pulpit. So one day I just decided to ask the elder that asked me to present the welcome if it was okay to bring someone with me. And she was excellent, she was really respectful. She she just stood just behind me and supported me to know whether someone is raising their hands or not. But that navigating that situation was difficult for me. Like I felt a bit embarrassed because I was like, other people in the church might be thinking, why is she standing there? And this is the reason why I've participated in like programs that we've had with speaking about my disability so that people are aware of like when you see me on my phone, I'm looking at the hymnal and I'm looking at the Bible, or you know, like if you see me presenting something on the pulpit, you know, I ask others to help for help. But to be honest, most of the time when I do ask for help, it's even actually the younger generation that I'm able to ask for that support more than even the older generation. So I don't know how it is for others with their disability in regards to the physical. I do see also my church is quite supportive, though, in regards to those like that may be not able to get up to get lunch, etc. There's always someone that's serving that individual, which is quite nice to see. But I feel like there's definitely more that can be done. There's more improvements that can be added and more like awareness because in a school, for example, all the TAs in that school, or most of them, are aware of like each class of each individual child that has a need. And I feel like it should be thought about when every single service has been planned every week, that there should be plans put in place for anyone with a need. And I think that that's not thought about enough. We think that like the church thinks about it once a year, and other than that, it's not thought about again. And I would love like to contribute different ideas to that because I feel like at least we can try where where possible to have someone that's sign in, and you know, for anyone who is, you know, in the hearing area where they cannot really hear as well, or you know, they're able, they're not able to hear at all because we are live streaming, so we're not thinking about the fact that there could be someone on the other side of that live stream that actually isn't able to hear. So I think we need to think about that more for a every week thing than to just be thinking about it as once a year for that event situation. So, yeah, I think that is my contribution for what I can think of at this time.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

For me personally, navigating disability as a Christian, I've never had issues. Everybody around me throughout my life never treated me different. However, I feel like within churches, because I still every now and then would visit a Sunday church, and I've visited different churches around the world, I feel like the church's attitude towards disability is wrong. I feel like many people are overlooked, they're not included, they're just seen as an inconvenience, how I would say it. It's like rather than being inclusive, they're not. Like if they saw somebody who probably had Dow syndrome, how are they added? They're more seen as like a member of the church, but they're not worthy enough to go on the platform. That's how I've always seen it. Like anybody that has had something, they're not axed. Do you want to sing? Do you want to participate? How can you be added? It's always people that are able-bodied that takes part in things, and I've seen that across the board. And Yah doesn't treat us like that, he doesn't see us like that. And I think this is why a lot of people with a disability go to the world because, like, if there's organizations for people that have disabilities outside and they're welcoming and they're loved, and they're not seen as a problem, why can't the church be more open? Even though, like, Shay was talking about like adaptations to a building. Yes, that is good, but at the same time, are you seen? Are you heard? I remember growing up in church, there was always somebody that signed, or I feel like within black churches, like there's certain people who are deaf that can slightly hear, so then you're overlooked. I think people take it like personal, like, oh well, she could hear, so why couldn't she hear this? But it's kind of like no, I I actually am focusing on your lips rather than actually listening to a sound rather than being in a closed building. Like I'm deaf in one ear, but I've managed to adapt to it. It was only when COVID happened my hearing just fell really badly. But going into a church, and as the person asks, like, are you able to go to somebody and a deacon and say, like, I need help, or is there anybody that is welcoming? I feel like back in the day it was more easier, like if somebody probably knew or see, like, Oh, do you need help? Like, let me help you, or whatever, but there's not. I feel like there should be somebody that can do sign in every church because you never know when somebody could come in that is deaf. As Shay was saying, like, there is no person that is signing, and even when you think of it from a worldly point of view, I think it's only channel four that does sign language, and again, it was like either early morning or late at night, you would see somebody um signing. So we have forgotten about people with a disability, whatever that may be. We do not integrate them into service or into anything because what about like now everything is like WhatsApp, WhatsApp, WhatsApp? What about people who don't have that phone but still want to be a part of something, or who can't read, or is not able? Like, nothing is actually thought about. It's everything is thought about for able people, and I once Shay was talking, I was just thinking to myself, like, there isn't anything, like, it's more for people with a physical disability. Like, if you're in a wheelchair, then yeah, we can do XYZ for you, or if you you're there's a problem with your leg or whatever, but all the others, what is there for them? Like, there's even a lady who is the same age as us, and she's in a wheelchair, and you can talk to her and she engages with you. Like, I've never actually set seen the church, and she's been in church for years to say, like, oh, would she want to have a little segment? Would she want to do anything? It's like seen as an inconvenience, and I think that's something that we need to look at. And I think thank you for your question. Because, as this is a worldwide platform for others to start thinking, how can we make people that have a disability feel appreciated and accepted?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Yeah, that's that's some great points um that you've made as well. Is it a question you've asked?

SPEAKER_01 11:08

No, I'm just saying for the people to think about it, yeah. Like when when you're in whatever that may be, because not everybody has a church building, some people are in schools, some people are at home. Like, and I know a lot of us is lazy, like for example, myself. I need I should know sign language because they always said if I go deaf in my right ear, I need to go straight to A and E. And I won't I don't know how to sign, but I think there was a lady that was in our church that she used to do free sign language, and I think certain things like that it is needed, and there is there is a community actually that that do like signing, but I haven't seen them, and I don't know if that's because they've been pushed out of the church because they've probably wanted to say certain things, but they're probably in the way of the camera or in the way of how it is for able people. But what about the people that are not able? Because I I even saw it one time in one church that they had some people that were signing, so they had somebody that was deaf, and well, I was watching online and they kept moving the sign person because she was in the way for them. Does that make sense? Yes, not for but she kept on saying, like, but for the viewers online and for others to make a yeah, because we did have one program where we had three ladies that signed actually.

Sign Language And Livestream Inclusion

SPEAKER_00 12:29

This was at some point a few months ago, maybe like six, seven, six months ago or seven months ago, should I say, and it was really excellent because they took it in turns. So they even signed the uh praise and worship, and then someone signed the sermon, and then you know, like they took it in turns, and it was so refreshing. I remember saying to someone, like, Oh my gosh, I've actually missed seeing this, even though I don't know sign language, but I felt so excited to see that, you know, like it gave you that feeling of you know, that inclusive feeling for everyone. And that individual that you even mentioned that we have that they never asked her to do anything, there was even a discussion about her getting baptized, and I don't even think that was even sorted out. Do you know what I mean? Like they were trying to think of a way how they can create or adapt, like have a discussion for a way for her to also be able to participate in baptism. So it's like when you were saying, like, yes, we have the physical, which I'm like, yes, I agree with you, we don't have anything else. It's just like okay, yeah, you can get into it.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

That's a massive thing. Yeah, why is it just for only able people? Why isn't there a hoist? Why isn't there these certain things that they can team up with? And again, like I'm just I'm just putting it out there because able people are selfish. I'm just saying it. If they was meant to have a church discussion, and I'm not saying all churches, and say, for example, a hoist is gonna be 16,000, and then they're gonna be like, oh, but that's only gonna be used for three people, you can't think like that. Or another way, signing, they could sign and then not sign for children's story. Why? There's children that could be deaf at home, and then they could be like, Oh, look, they're signing, come and hear the children's story. They sign what they think is important.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

That's a good point, actually. I've never seen children's stories signed. That's actually a good point. Like me, but maybe it was a few years ago, I don't know. I don't remember, but from my recollection.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

I haven't seen it, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 14:28

Yeah, okay. So I haven't seen it myself.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

It was mainly for like the songs and sermons.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Right. So then that that once again, you've just excluded the children. And even that discussion you're talking about, even like there's a lot of people that's involved in that field that can even speak about this hoisting, because that's my field. Like, I wouldn't have minded contributing to that. We could have found ways that you'd be so surprised we could have got a hoist donated. We could have got like there's so many things that could have got done. I know things about slings, I know things about different types of hoists, like, and there's other individuals that are also in the caring field that would be able to contribute to that discussion. And so it's like sometimes you don't know where to start with these things as well. Because it's like, I'm speaking about this right now, and I would love to go approach someone about it, but I don't know who that would be I'm approaching. And I feel like even the individual that had the ministry last year, I'm not even sure. To be fair, I when I think about it, their role was actually in the caring field, so they would understand, but they didn't bring those skills to the sanctuary, if that, if you get what I mean. So that you can be like, do you know what? This is what I do at work. How can I bring this to church? How can I bring this to the people that we support? And I was trying to do that, like, because they started kind of like an activities day, I'm gonna call it, right? It was meant to be done once a month in our church. They called it a day center. And I was talking about different ideas because when I thought about a day center, I thought about it in regards to those that I have at work with needs. So I took two of the people that I supported to that, but everything they had could not support them. So I gave them ideas. I'm like, if you want to be bringing in all individuals, because the people I support, they have learner disabilities, but they go to church. They both have churches, and one of them is not even verbal, and one of them is verbal, and their churches are very adapted to their needs, not just physically, but they give them things to do. Like one of my persons I support, she carries the offering up every week, and she has a walker, and the other individual, he's non-verbal, but they always speak to him, make sure he's okay, they make sure he has a close enough seat when it comes to communion, they make sure he's involved. Do you know what I mean? And it's like I'm seeing that outside of my churches, and it's so powerful seeing it, but what is going on with us? And these are simple things, by the way, that we can do. Yeah, so simple. It's not even that hard at all.

Hoists Baptism Access And Practical Fixes

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Because it makes me think of the story in the Bible of the paralyzed man, and it was like his friends brought him through from the roof and lowered him down. Now, when you think about the fact that they had to undo a roof to bring their friend down so he can be healed, right? And these are outside people. Can you imagine if we adapt the house of of Yah to accept those? If his friends were willing to like take the tiles off the roof, no matter how long it's gonna take, we're gonna you're gonna be healed. Right. We don't think of it like that. We think of it the able people are selfish, they think of it for themselves. Like, even for example, like chairs, there's people that might not be able to sit down, they probably need a bigger chair or a more comfortable chair. There is nothing like that in our church where there's a seat that will just be assigned to those who have back problems or their legs can't be cramped, or certain things, there's there's nothing like that. But the whole of the churches is just for able people.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

That is so true. I agree with that because I feel like there is, I don't know if I'm making this up in my head, but I feel like there's some places that you have some churches, they do have certain seats that's made for like, okay, they like you said, enough space for individuals to sit. And even me, I don't even like sitting in a seating that's cramped, but I don't need it. But you know, but they haven't specifically assigned those places or reserved those seats. And I feel like that's something we should think about like every week, even if you don't see somebody with a need that comes every week, it's just creating that space for them so that you know that it's there. And you know, like even like letting it be important, letting it be announced, like you know, we do have some seat in here for those who um are not able to sit in the other seats that we have, you know, for it to be more comfortable for you or for your back or for stretching your legs, or I don't know, like just to let it be known so that you know that you're included and the the church wants you to feel comfortable coming into the house of the Lord, you know, just creating that, but it's just not there and the discussions are not being had. And the problem I have is that people keep speaking about let's talk about it, and then when you're ready to talk about it, you're being shut down. Like I feel like that's what I am seeing from being physically in the building. They want to talk, but then when you go to talk, you're being shut down, you're not being heard.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

I think sometimes we leave Yar out of it. I think what we need to start doing when we go to have these conversations with the individuals is can we pray first? Can we let Yar be in the center of this so that our minds is not to ourselves? It's like me being deaf in one ear, like in a large room, I don't like sitting on their left. But if I was meant to tell somebody, like, oh, if if I was meant to go into a church and they're trying to find me a seat, and if I was meant to say, Can I please be seated on the left, they just see it as I can hear because I'm talking to you, right? And so for them, they're judging me on what I'm saying, rather than saying, Well, but you can hear, but it's just like, yeah, but I'm deaf in one ear, and it's like, but you can hear. So there's a lot of things where people because whatever they're hearing or seeing in in their mind doesn't make sense, you're lying. And I think that's something else that people that have a disability struggle with because you might be able to you might come to church and have a good day, but then that person or persons are judging you on that good day that you had.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

All right, that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And I think if we was even meant to, even like people that, for example, are not a good singer, why can't they get up there and sing? Because whatever y'all has brought them through that day, it shouldn't be like only the best of the best should come on the pulpit. Because that person who's singing that may not sound good to you, the way how the heavens are opening, because y'all knows what they went through. I think it's just we need to get rid of this only able people stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

I agree. I have a question.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

Because when you think about it, like sorry, when you think about you were just talking about the church, that the church that you go to, that it's able body. If somebody was wheelchair bound that's a preacher, the the pulpit is not ready for them. They can't get up there.

SPEAKER_00 21:25

No, definitely not. Because we did actually have someone that actually we did have possibilities ministry a few weeks ago, and there was a young man, quite a young boy, that did preach. He has cerebral palsy, and I think it affects one side of his body, and the pulpit wasn't ready for someone like him. He did make it up there, but having to watch the struggle for him to get up there, I didn't like it. Like I felt uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

And why was it why wasn't and this is not just to put down on the church when I'm speaking, guys? I'm talking about like for us to be open minded. Like with people that have certain things, if you know that okay, this person has cerebral palsy or MS or whatever they have, why wasn't there a board made? Or why wasn't there certain things put in place? Why are we only thinking on the day? Because we're only thinking about being able.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

Yeah. Do you get do you know what I mean? Yeah, I completely.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

So we're just on the day, we're like, oh yeah, I forgot. I because I for I've seen somebody with MS or I've seen somebody with and cerebral pausing, and they they were fine with steps. No, we can't stripe everybody with one brush.

Biblical Pictures Of Radical Inclusion

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, that's my point because his mom had to help him up. But I just feel like that shouldn't have to be it, if that makes sense. Do you know what I mean? He should be able to, they should have asked him, like, is there things that we can do to make it more comfortable for you to go up the pulpit or to get on the pulpit? And then it's up to him. Do you get what I'm trying to say? But even when he was standing, I felt like there should have been something there to support him, for him to lean on. Like, even if he did want to stand, because maybe he did want to stand, like if he wanted to sit. Right. That's what I'm saying. There's no judgment here at all. I'm just saying I saw at times it that was a long time for him to stand. And I felt personally it was a struggle for him. And so, like, I didn't want to let that take it away from what he was preaching because it was excellent. But I, me, because I am in that care field, that's what I was thinking about. I'm like, is there not a point where he could have sat down? They could have had like a mic ready for him to switch to standing to sit in. Because it's like what he is, we want we don't want to be made to feel uncomfortable. So that would have been an inconvenience if he kept sitting and standing, because it doesn't look good, does it? Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah. So that would have been great if he had a chair like right next to the pulpit, if that makes sense. So, like, you know, where you have to stand, and then if he had a chair there, he could switch to the chair. There could be a mic there, he could switch to the to the handheld mic, and then once he felt comfortable to stand again, he could stand again. But yeah, he had to stand the whole time. And I just I just you know I was disappointed in that.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

I think I'm looking because it says navigating disability as a Christian and church's attitudes towards disability. I feel like our attitudes towards it is not good. But we thank you for your question because throughout through this podcast, I hope that it helps us to be able to think of things or reach out to services. And I'm gonna pray that Shay will, now that she's she knows certain things about donations, to keep pushing so that that person can get baptized. Because it's like again, yes, there's sometimes we don't know anything, and but the same way how we can search and Google for things, we can try and like look or or even ask the question. Like, because I remember back in the day they used to say, like, does anybody know, if we know anybody that has in this field, can you please come forward or whatever, or a social worker or somebody ask those questions, right? Even like you know, we don't have a sign person in church, like do should even if y'all put it on your heart, and you know, he's putting it on mine. I need to learn sign language. I definitely need to learn it. But like little things that he could put on your heart to move you, and even if you will get declined, like imagine if Moses just gave up on the Israelites. Like, there's where we are gonna get pullbacks, unfortunately, we are gonna get pushed, but with prayer and supplication, we can keep pushing so that the rest of Yas children can be in the building, can feel included, you know, can make suggestions, don't wait for possibility day or disability day, whatever it's called in your church. Don't let it just come for that to them, be like, oh, let everybody that has a disability now come forward. Like, say, like, oh, do you know what? I haven't seen Pingy do the welcome. Let them do the welcome, or can this person do like read of a verse if the verse is small? Like, we can we can include people, and then that way, especially how everything is online now, it's just the same way. It's like when children see other people online and they think, Oh my gosh, that person can do it, so can I. But if we're not showing that, then they will just feel like y'all's forgotten about me, the church is not for me, you know. So let this be an eye-opener for all of us, not just in church, like everywhere. If you see somebody at work on the bus, on the road, it's like there was there's somebody on my road that has MS. And it when I used to help them out, that's when I realized London wasn't built for wheelchairs. And before, again, because I'm able body, I can walk, so it's alright for me to step down and step off. But when I was with her, I was like, wow, there is no lower pavements. So we know that the world is not built for non-able people, we're aware of that, but we know that Yah accepts us with all our baggages, so we need to be able to try and integrate. And I know sometimes we don't have the money, but if we don't have the money like for certain stuff, it's kind of like again, I remember one of my friends, their church don't have a pool, so they would use the leisure centre that I go to, and they do their baptisms at the leisure centre, so that's another idea. Do you know what I mean? Because the leisure centre do have things because there's people with disabilities that can go there and they've got the the provisions for that, so there's ways about certain things.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

That is such an excellent idea. I never thought about that because in your leisure center there is a specialized pool that's actually not in. I don't think it's in.

SPEAKER_01 27:39

That's why I said it.

SPEAKER_00 27:40

Yeah, there's no it's not in any other place. It goes lower and tighter, and the whole floor goes down and comes up. Yeah, um, because that's where I used to take the people that I supported who were wheelchair bound that couldn't sit up, used to go to that pool. And man, I missed doing that activity. Sorry, just pull back some memories. It was when I look back on how powerful that was, you know, and that pool used to be full because there was nowhere that provided such and it is nice and warm, and the services are excellent, the changer rooms are great, they're excellent service. But as you're speaking, I I thought about the story of Mefiboshef. Is it Mefiboshef? In the Bible, um his dad was Soul, and um his best friend was Jonathan. And no, sorry, all the way around. What am I saying? But I can't remember who Mefibashef's dad was. Someone's shouting at me right now as they're listening to this. But I knew Jonathan and him was best friend. Jonathan's dad was soul. And anyways, Jonathan, you know, um, he was quite rich and stuff after his dad died. Um, and he invited Mefibishef to the palace. And because they didn't know where he went, they didn't know where he disappeared to, because he was crippled from a child, and his nurse protected him.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

His best friend was David.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

See, I got the whole thing wrong in it. Just going right and right, telling the story all wrong.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

It was so Jonathan's father was Saul, and Jonathan's closest friend was David.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

Thank you. My god. So Jonathan was this was the son of King Saul. Thank you. Right. Jonathan was the son of King Saul. Yeah, his best friend was okay. There we go.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

And you can find that in 1 Samuel 18, 1.

Respect Hidden Disabilities And Normalize Support

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Thank you very much. Because I was just saying in my head, I had the whole story correct. Anyways, so when he invited him, anyways, when it was David that invited him to the palace, because now I'm thinking I got this wrong. Um and they, anyways, he just felt amazing. Mephibisha felt like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that I've been invited to the like the feasting table of a king. Um, and the fact that he was taken care of and he was treated so well, and they even like took care of his household and sent him livestock and stuff, and you know, like did so much for him. Imagine he did not think that he would have a good life because do you know what I mean? He had a disability. And the reason why I'm throwing out this story is just thinking about the fact of imagine those who do have needs, just that that time of asking them to participate in things in church, imagine what that can do for them. Because it's not just about the mental, the things that happen to us mentally can change so much in us physically. And can you imagine what that boost could do for them? Like their health could just improve, and all these changes can happen just because of that thing that you don't think is that serious, or you don't realise how powerful that thing is for to ask them to do the welcome or to do the tides, or do you know what I mean? Um, and that's just what I'm thinking about. This is what we should bear in mind of how much of a purpose that could bring to that individual. And I definitely feel like it's something that it needs to be a discussion, and actually, it prompted me to go and find out who is the new impossibilities ministry leader for this year. So I'm gonna find that out.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

And just a little bit of background about Mephiboshev. Mephiboshev is the son of Jonathan, so he's the grandson of King Star.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

That's it.

SPEAKER_01 31:15

And he was crippled in both of his feet after an accident as a child because the nurse dropped him and fled in fair.

SPEAKER_00 31:22

Yeah, that's what happened. So, yes, so it was David that invited him to his um his palace. So that's why he just felt he was just in awe because he couldn't believe that a king invited him to his feasting table. That was a big deal in those days.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

And he was in poverty as well, right? Exactly because it's like he felt like, wow, he's looking at me. I'm crippled and I live in poverty, and I'm getting invited.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

Right, exactly. And that's why David did so much for him. That's what I'm saying. He gave him, I think he gave him the properties of his grandfather or his father, one or the other, and he gave him servants and all this stuff, and he went from poor's to riches in a short period of time, and he was noticed, and that I'm sure that changed a lot in him, you know. But he spoke about being invited to that, to that, you know, that table of David and just how loved he felt, and just yeah, he just couldn't believe it. And so this is what we could bring to that individual who is not necessarily abled, but just by asking them to do something, because even me being visually impaired, I was even like I didn't really get asked to do things beforehand. And when I got asked, I thought, wow, this is really nice. But then when I I remember, like I said, mentioning to that elder that I needed someone to be up there with me, I felt really like uncomfortable having to tell them that, and they were fine with it, but yeah, it would be nice to know that you just have that open space to know that you know what, would you like support? You know, is it okay for you to do this? Is it anything that you need? No, it'd just be nice to have those types of questions asked so that you just don't feel like you're in it on your own. So yeah.

Why Disability Churches Should Not Exist

SPEAKER_01 32:59

So you have two stories there where like the friends of the guy who opened the rooftop so that he could be healed, and then you have Meshib Mephibishev, can I can't pronounce these names. You were there, uh he was uh crippled, but he was seated, he was still accepted, he was still made like his status changed, even though his disability didn't change, his status changed and he was accepted as he was. So it's not to change, and I think this is the key thing, is not to change um the people that have a disability, it's to accept them as they are, respect them. Key word, respect. Um, respect them because sometimes I feel like sometimes people feel offended. Like, you know, like sometimes that person might ask for help, and then in another time they might say, No, I'm okay, and then that person feels away. It's not about feeling away because sometimes that person might want to, they might feel they have enough strength to be able to do something, but it's just to think about in the building or if we're in our home, because like same with me, I do beauty, I have to put a disclaimer that like it's not really wheelchair bound for where I am, um and just to put that out there, um, and there's nothing really that I I can do because of like the little the little levels that I have, but at the same time, like I've dealt with a lady that had a crippled hand, and she was saying to me that I I'm the first nail tech to make her feel comfortable, like other people because one of her hands is like twisted and she only has like three fingers on one hand, but I didn't make her feel any different. I didn't say like sorry, I can't do because I was just thinking like she's got nails, why not? Why should I treat her any different from somebody that's got ten fingers or somebody that can keep their hands straight? We're all made in his image, we're all made differently. And I think that's the thing when we're when we think about inviting people, we need to have patience. Like it might take them a little bit of time, it might, you know, you don't get frustrated. And I think the more it becomes a norm in our churches where we put out people that might have a speech impediment, that might have MS, that might have whatever disability, whether they be singing, whatever their whatever y'all puts on their heart to do and they start to do it, it will become a norm.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

So true, so powerful.

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Because like I think, like, I don't know, like I remember one time I was researching, and there's actually disability churches, but why should there be disability churches? You know what I mean? Why should they be singled out?

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah, I completely agree. I don't think there should be a separate place. Uh no, that's not fair. Because not like it's not fair, but I just feel like we should be able to be amongst everyone. I shouldn't be traveling just to go to one place because that's the only place that I can be accepted physically, or you know, that should be not be the place because that that's not necessarily the place I might want to go. It might not be where I feel connected to Elohim, you know, but you're just going there because that's the only place that has access for you. It's not that's not correct at all. But thank you so much for that question. We really appreciate that because that's really just opened a box of so many things and so many discussions and um things that we can really think about, not just think about, but take action in what we can do. Who do we need to speak to? Who do we need to challenge, but not in a negative way, if that makes sense. Um, yeah, ask about these things, you know? So yeah, I loved I love this question.

SPEAKER_01 36:32

Shake and pray for us.

Prayer For Churches To Take Action

SPEAKER_00 36:33

No problem. So let's pray. Elahim Yashua Yahweh, thank you so much, blessed Father Lord in heaven, for a brand new day that you've blessed us with. And thank you, Lord, for bringing me and CeCe together to be able to um present this episode or discuss this episode. Thank you for the individual who has sent through the question. And thank you for giving us the knowledge and letting the Holy Spirit move as we go through trying to dissect it, Lord. Holy Father, I really want to ask you to please be with our churches, Lord in Heaven. Father God, help us in navigating those with disabilities of all forms. Help us, Lord in heaven, to think, think about, and take action in, finding ways to welcome those each and every week with some type of disability. Help us to bear it in mind. And these changes do not necessarily have to be major. And so, Father Lord, help us to walk in thinking about these things and navigating these things, Heavenly Father Lord, and help us to speak up for those who are not able to speak up for themselves and speak up about the things that we're noticing. Lord, guide us to um charities or organizations that can maybe donate equipment to the church or um those that were able to contribute something to our churches, Lord. I just pray, Father Lord, that we are we will start taking this more seriously, may it not be light. Maybe all start praying about it as well and just seeing what can we contribute, what can we do to support others with needs. And because of COVID times, we're all at home. And I feel like this is where people with disabilities feel that maybe they just belong being at home to worship. But Lord in heaven, I pray, Lord in heaven, that in this new season, that this can be a change, that Lord, we can work on welcoming those into the physical building again and creating spaces for them and letting them know that that space is there and available to them, Lord. Father, Lord in heaven, help us to be able to speak to the right individuals within our churches that is able to work on making changes, Lord, in heaven, not just delaying it or dragging it or just listening to us, Lord, but may they actually take on board what we're saying and actually start to take action in moving forward to create in the spaces for all of us to be welcomed, not just those who are able, but those that may have struggles that we see and cannot see, Lord, in heaven. And help us as a church to remember that all disabilities are not necessarily visible. And so we should work on finding ways to create changes that can make big differences in individuals' lives. Thank you, Lord, for listening. Thank you, Lord, for your time. Thank you, Lord, for this discussion, and thank you for this prayer. In your blessed Son's name, Jesus Christ, as we pray. Amen.

unknown 39:29

Amen.