Leta's Tap Styles

How Masking Impacts the Autistic Dance Student

• Leta and Amanda • Season 2

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In this episode of the Leta’s Tap Styles, Leta and Amanda discuss the lifelong impacts of masking on autistic dancers. They discuss how dance studio owners and teachers – while well meaning – often cause harm by not understanding what masking is, how it manifests itself, and the physical and emotional harm masking causes. Even the most “inclusive” space seems to demand that their autistic dancers mask in order to make the studio owners and dance teachers not feel uncomfortable.

Amanda and Leta share personal stories of when they were forced by adults to mask, just so others felt more “at ease” with Leta and Amanda. Throughout the episode, they criticize the lack of genuine inclusivity and address the misconceptions about autism being a 'superpower.' They also highlight the importance of creating an environment where autistic dancers can be themselves without the need to mask, referring to their own Autistic Wings Dance Company as a model for inclusivity.

Places like Autistic Wings Dance Company - where autistic dancers aren't asked to mask but allowed to have their "quirks" - are few and far between. Help Leta's dream soar by donating today. https://www.autisticwingsdancecompany.org

Visit our podcast website to find out more about Leta, about Amanda, and about our past and future guests. https://www.letatapstyles.com

Masking and learning all about what masking is and what the affects of masking are on people (mentally and physically) is a new field of study. Very few papers currently exist. Below are a few of those papers.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8992921/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6483965/

Leta:

Hello, this is Leta, and this is me and my mommy's podcast. And there's my mommy, and there's me, and I'm just talking about this stuff. And there's me tap dancing, because this is a tap dancing slash autism podcast. And there's a bunch of animals, and wallby trying to eat my hair. And there's a bunch of sand and ocean. Also, there's all the SoleTalk stuff. I love all my mentors and friends. All that going on, so old. Yeah, it's like life's coming to an end. Oh, and also, there's my boots. My boots are amazing. Also, there's me, trying not to have a panic attack. Also, this is a podcast about me. and autism, and tap dancing, and blah, blah, blah. I'm just ADHD and this is it. Also, there's my cute, adorable puppies. Welcome to the Leta Mommy Podcast. We are doing this for the 18, 000 and a half first time. It feels like that is my mommy. I am Leta. That is my mommy. My mommy is the best mommy in the whole wide universe. And I love my mommy. And she's the best mommy I could ever, uh, wait, no, not ever wish for. I don't wish for another mommy. She's the only mommy I ever want.

Amanda:

That's so sweet. You are definitely the best child. I'm glad I'm on this journey with you. Happy Tap Tuesday And you're like, and that is the most you're getting out of me for this intro, because, uh, we're going to be talking about stuff and I want to, uh, not get myself in trouble. Um, I got sent an article from a magazine about inclusive spaces and dance, and I want to talk about it, uh, without mentioning the article without mentioning people in the article, because it's not the 1st 1. I have seen on how to do inclusive dance spaces.

Leta:

It is the evil article. It is the evil, it's the pure evil it. It is the pure evil. It is the article. Heaven will never read.

Amanda:

Most of the article was the autistic dancers being interviewed apologizing for their autistic traits and saying how once they learned to mask, they didn't use the word masking, but once they learned to mask, once they learned to be someone they're not,

Leta:

I mean, once they learn to take like I am not making it to 30 off of their lives.

Amanda:

that's what I wanted to go down for dance teachers because I don't think dance teachers or parents or a lot of teachers understand. The current research going

Leta:

that'll probably twine. They're probably not making it to twine.

Amanda:

But yeah, I wanted to discuss this real quick because it was 1 of the dancers actually said, you know, this is what I needed to learn. But once I realized that wasn't what my teachers needed, I changed who I was to be what my teacher needed. And we call that.

Leta:

Taking 100, 200, 365 years off of your life and this is why people don't live to 100 if they're autistic.

Amanda:

We call that masking and it is very popular in dance studios for dance studio owners and dance studio teachers to say, I have such

Leta:

You're not making it to twine!

Amanda:

to say, I have such a heart for autistic dancers. I have a heart for my autistic students and then ask you to mask who you are and to ask you to change who you are and to play. A part, , for our listeners who may not be understanding where masking is, , or what masking is.

Leta:

basically the chemical reaction of your brain saying, Hello, let's give you that fog that kills you early.

Amanda:

Okay. Let's explain that a little less 13 year old and a little bit more scientific masking is trying to fit in by pretending to be someone you're not, uh, with autism, especially the new papers coming out. For, like, the last 10 years, um, have shown that masking takes decades off of people's lives.

Leta:

So basically it just, makes it where your brain is more focused on not doing it's job, so AKA it won't use the heart, so then it won't make the lungs go, so then it won't make the heart go, so then it won't make your liver go, so then it won't make your body go, so then your body's dead. Pale,

Amanda:

No, it's focus the stress levels from masking. Are equivalent to being in a very stress driven job, except for you don't get to go home from the job. Mostly 1 of the things that. People did a mask is like you with not looking at eyes me. I don't like looking people in the eyes. I will have to look someone in the eyes. The amount of effort it takes to look someone in the eye and to actually concentrate on what they're saying is ridiculous. You're always having if you're masking, you're always like, what do they want? What do I have to do to be what they want? Um, things as simple as. Don't ask questions because while they said they were open to all questions, they didn't mean me. They meant someone else. They didn't mean me. That was me and my youth over and over adults would go. Well, I, I meant ask me questions. I want to answer and you didn't answer them. Could you have given me the list of what questions you wanted to answer with friends? When I was growing up, I had therapist go. You need to only like what they like. You need to. Cool. Only talk about what they want to talk about. You need to be who they want you to be. And this is ingrained and it creates autistic burnout. It creates, um, health issues, physical health issues. I mean, it creates major depression. It creates major anxiety, and it creates suicidal tendencies. And a lot of people that can't be fixed by here take a pill because you're still masking in your body. I mean, there is a lot to be said for that on, um, the side effects of, uh, depression pills, but we're not talking about that, but no, that is when we were creating this inclusive environment, autistic wings dance company, the number 1 thing people asked me was, how are you making it? Where neurotypical people, like, how do I put this nicely? It was all about how to make it Comfortable for the neurotypical people, not comfortable for the autistic dancer. You're playing with your new stuffed pug.

Leta:

You want me to ask again how much longer I tell him old enough to do the finger feet? And also curse? And also maybe punch Rainbow?

Amanda:

Violence is not the answer. I'm taking that one out. Um, no, so, no, no, I don't want you cursing. Um, That's not curse. Yes, please keep giving me that look. No, but I mean, the thing is over and over and over. It was always how can we make autistic people fit into the neurotypical dance studio while you and I were going the neurotypical dance studio doesn't work for the autistic person, unless you're going to change how you interact. And masking absolutely positively, like I can pull up paper after paper, after paper, after paper, after paper, after paper, after paper. That says masking causes strokes. It causes heart attacks. It causes, uh, high blood pressure. It causes stomach and G. I. ailments. It causes all this other stuff, but. Dance teachers continuously need you to mask in studios. Do they not, Leta?

Leta:

Yeah, you should probably not allow me to talk on this one.

Amanda:

No, you can talk. I will edit anything out with, bleepy sounds. How does that sound? You may talk. Go ahead and talk.

Leta:

I really love a frickin little frickin dork. They remind me of like no animal on the planet. I'm like, like seriously, they're like If there was an apocalypse, they would not be the ones living. They would not, if there was a zombie apocalypse in real life, yeah, there would be the zombies. There would be zombies and every autistic person's ass would be alive and they would be dead. Dead? I'm alive, I'm dead, I'm alive, I don't really get

Amanda:

can I ask a question real quick, Leta? And I'm going to get a little personal again this week. What were some of the things that teachers asked you to do that you would consider masking?

Leta:

Shut up. Okay, you mean people getting facts

Amanda:

Okay. Other than shut, what did they tell you to shut up over? Oh, I would

Leta:

Okay, I'm not so angry, I'm sorry, it's not my fault you're an idiot on what an animal is. And what a cage is. And what everything in the piss about animals is. It's not my fault you're a idiot.

Amanda:

say something, but I asked one of my youth group leaders in church one time, because we were discussing, uh, God had come down to in the story. God comes down to wrestle,

Leta:

that, um, yeah, God might have, been,

Amanda:

can I finish the story? No, guys, it supposedly comes down to rescue wrestle Jacob and they wrestle all night long. Uh, God, uh. Wins the wrestling match by making Jacob , uh, hip or hurting Jacob's hip and pretty much just dislocating it. I'm assuming. And then, um, he turns around and goes, now, your name is Israel and the youth leader was just totally. Not versed on this, and he got lost in the story and he's like, where did this Israel come fella come from? I love that look on your face and I'm sitting there going. Well, can you explain to me that? Because then I picked up on it. I'm like, can you explain to me the difference between Jacob and Israel and I'm very confused as to how these 2 people are here. And what was Jacob doing? Um, Wrestling God and where did this Israel fellow come up with because it drove me bonkers that at 12, I knew more about the story than he did. And I'd read more and you're the same way with zoology. You're like, excuse me, but that is a masking thing. Is it not?

Leta:

Zoology.

Amanda:

It's pronounced both ways, Leta.

Leta:

I did not know that until now.

Amanda:

That is a form of masking is they're sitting there. You have to shut up and pretend to be stupid when they're saying stupid stuff. we're not discussing a religion at this point in time. I just brought it up because I got in trouble for that because you can't be smarter than the teacher. Well, you know, I didn't realize that was a thing, but that's masking because then you have to play stupid and go and it really drives me bonkers even today when I'm like, yeah, you can be stupid. I'm just going to sit here and listen to you be stupid. And it's going to, you know, make my stress level, uh, get higher. Um, what about when. Teachers have told you to look them in the eyes.

Leta:

I TRY NOT TO USH TO DO WHAT I HAVE NEVER SEEN YOUR REAL FRIENDS

Amanda:

but when you're looking someone in the eyes, what are you

Leta:

Having a panic attack.

Amanda:

panic attack? Um, are you also having an internal dialogue on? Keep looking in the eye, but don't look crazily in the eye because you don't want to look like you're a weirdo How

Leta:

No, I was just honestly speaking. Don't faint, don't faint. If you faint, then it's gonna be bad. And then they're gonna ask you why you fainted. And then you're gonna say why. And then they're gonna say, no, you're lying. And then nobody's gonna believe you. And then I don't know, they'll probably also abandon you.

Amanda:

easy is it for you to listen to instructions and learn choreo when they're busy telling you to look them in the eye?

Leta:

Yeah, I was so good a lot of my teachers said just in the eye, because on other things I was mostly just faking.

Amanda:

But yeah, um, what about when teachers were telling you to quit stimming? Because I have always been like, I don't care as long as your stimming isn't hurting you or isn't hurting anyone else. Who the everloving cares.

Leta:

listen. I was supposed

Amanda:

I know, because teachers came up to me to complain.

Leta:

I was supposed to give a hell of a fuck about them?

Amanda:

When they were telling you, because I don't know if you got this in dance classes as much as I got this, you have to interact with other people and you have to be friends with them on their terms.

Leta:

Give me a reason to interact with other heaven loving people. All you show me is that humanity is the worst heaven loving thing in the world. Give me a reason to like you. All you heaven loving show me is that humanity is evil, and the only thing that's evil in this world is animals, and that humanity shouldn't even be on this planet.

Amanda:

These teachers absolutely positively every single 1 of your teachers who has made you mask in order to feel comfortable themselves. Absolutely. Positively feels that they know who you are.

Leta:

And yet you wonder why I went through a phase of wanting people to fear me.

Amanda:

But, I mean,

Leta:

If

Amanda:

you feel like

Leta:

can't hurt me. If they fear me, they can't hurt me.

Amanda:

that's what masking does, though? Does it hurt you when people ask you to mask?

Leta:

I feel like fainting, and then I get lightheaded, and then I feel like throwing up,

Amanda:

Let's ask the emotional question when you've been asked. By teachers to be less autistic so that they feel more comfortable. Do you feel like that teacher likes you?

Leta:

that wanted to kill me, they would just say, Oh, this person doesn't want to kill you even though it's got a knife. They just want to be friends with you even though they got a knife in their hand and they're literally aiming for your back and that knife's literally aiming for your back.

Amanda:

Those teachers, every single one of them, I don't think realized what masking does. I also don't think I, like, I keep saying they don't know what they don't know because every single 1 of them felt. That they were showing you they cared by asking you to mask.

Leta:

Are you supposed to badly want to throw up and try not to throw up?

Amanda:

What I'm trying to say Leta is I don't think they knew that that was happening.

Leta:

I mean, I told some of them that I felt like throwing up.

Amanda:

I don't think they understood that they were the ones causing it. I think they didn't understand that asking you to act typical means you had to mask, which meant you had to hide who you were from them. So the child, they liked. Wasn't necessarily you, was it? You're like, I am playing with a flower. Outside of SoleTalk, because you have been in SoleTalk so long, you can no longer mask in SoleTalk. You've been around them because about 18 months is about how long you can mask. Which is strangely about the time you have spent at studios before we're leaving. Because 18, all the studies show 18 months and then the mask starts slipping. Did you realize that?

Leta:

And then, it's me being little speechless and not that fake speechless when people say they're speechless, but saying you're speechless is still a speech!

Amanda:

Uh, yeah, that's you being speechless. No, at 18 months is when the mask is almost impossible to continue masking. 18 months is about when you have left dance studios because dance studio. Owners and dance studio teachers have come up to me and gone, we're having issues with Leta. She's doing this. She's doing that. And I'm like, fine, we'll find a different studio because you've just told me you can't handle my daughter. And they're like, but we want you to fix her. Would you like to say something into the microphone?

Leta:

glad that in that time frame, I wasn't strong enough to preferably put them in the hospital.

Amanda:

Okay. Maybe say something nicer, but I understand where that's coming from. I really do. Um,

Leta:

should say something? Oh, you're saying that the people from my past shouldn't be the ones saying something? That's what I'm just

Amanda:

Leta, I am serious. Not a single one of the dance teachers from your past. That we're talking about on the masking stuff feels they have done anything wrong. They feel everything they did was for your best interest.

Leta:

I care about that? The world is evil, just accept it. Ahem,

Amanda:

No, the absolutely positively. That's what I'm trying to get across here is they felt that they were doing what was best for you. They felt they cared about your feelings. They actually did feel like they cared about your feelings. Leta.

Leta:

never mind, I take back what I said. I mean, they were raised by boomers and basically mini boomers.

Amanda:

Some of them have been boomers. They all felt like they were doing what was in your best interest by asking you. To be what they needed. Privately, we've talked about this with adult or our dancers. We've talked about this with their parents. We have a lot of parents that we're having to go. Don't worry. They don't have to mask here because their parents are absolutely positively. upset that they're not masking in the studio. And I'm like, Oh, thank God. They're not masking that they feel safe enough not to mask. What would traditional dance studios have to do to create a safe, inclusive space?

Leta:

Shut up! Just shut up! Shut up! Shut those mouths! Close them shut! Close them shut. Amanda: could we do me a favor and maybe. Say something a little bit more constructive, like, I don't know, maybe, don't force your autistic dancers to look you in the ever loving eyes. Well, if you shut up, then you listen. If you listen, then you actually take criticism because you can't say anything trying to defend your case!

Amanda:

Uh,

Leta:

Also, if you shut up, you realize the world around you exists, and that you're not only a human being, and that you're not a god! You're not a god.

Amanda:

I feel we're about to have like three Fridays in a row where that discussion is being had on Friends Friday.

Leta:

You're not a god.

Amanda:

cause what, they can ta Dance studios continuously tell me they're like, we have an inclusive environment. We have autistic classes where we don't have the sensory issues. We bring the lights down. We bring the noise level down nowhere in that. Are they saying we've talked to our dancers and asked what specifically each dancer needs nowhere

Leta:

if you make them shut up, then they'll actually ever love a . Listen to you!

Amanda:

nowhere in it. Has when I've suggested things like, well, you need to understand that some kids when they're masking, they talk a mile an hour because that's me. I will over talk when I'm masking. And it's a productive deal, because if I'm talking too much, you can't. Do stuff to me, you have to understand. A lot of autistic kids start living in their heads and creating worlds in their heads because that's where they feel safer. You have to understand. Things like, oh, I know, maybe severely dyslexic kids can't read. Yeah, you're right. It's the shut up, you have one mouth, two ears, start listening.

Leta:

So, um, who said that maybe not to shut up ever love a shut up? So you're saying that ever love a shut up criticism is actually good criticism?

Amanda:

I think it is. Here's the thing. I don't think they're meaning to be ableist. I honestly do not, which is, I know you don't understand this. Other people haven't understood it. It makes me sadder for them that they think they're allies when they're being nothing but ableist.

Leta:

Oh, it's why ableism and racism sound the same now.

Amanda:

You figured that out, but you think about it, every single one of your teachers that you and I have both felt to have been ableist me thinking their institutional, the institutionalism of ableism is in there. You thinking, Nope, they're just ableist. Cause they hate me. Every single one of them does not understand the ableism that they have done. And I think that hurts because they did their ableism. The way they were ableist towards you was them trying to help you.

Leta:

I mean, what, wait, they wanted me to go to the grave early.

Amanda:

No, because they don't know that. They absolutely positively do not understand that masking. It is such a inherently terrible thing on your body that it takes decades, not years, but decades off of your life. ADHD? There. Everyone's like, well, ADHD takes decades off your life because ADHD people mask. Most neurodivergent

Leta:

I'm pretty sure it's pales and the masking.

Amanda:

We'll save that for another day. But no, it is definitely the masking because I don't think they understand the physical reaction to masking. They also don't understand why you're masking. Why are you masking when they're telling you you have to look them in the eye? Why would that cause you to mask? What is masking? I don't think they understand the masking part to be honest, but the entirety of the Teachers who have said she's masking. You don't know her. They're like, no, no, because they don't understand what masking is. They don't understand the

Leta:

Masking is putting a puppy in the cage,

Amanda:

masking. So, masking is playing a part. It's playing the part. They want you to play. Is it not?

Leta:

like puppy in the cage

Amanda:

Well, but I mean, it does put you in a cage because you have been told you yourself cannot be out. Your real self has to be in a cage in your mind not to be shown. And then we've talked about this. I've talked to a guest of ours about this. I have friends. I'll use quotation marks around that, um, from childhood who don't know me because I masked so hard during my childhood. They never met the true me, the person they were friends with. Was a fictional character who never existed. I think there are a lot of dance teachers that have had you in class that don't know the real you.

Leta:

also. Plus, I know. If you haven't got this in, like, the 90s and 80s, but apparently a lot of times when I thought they were being ableist to me, some people told me, Oh, no, no, you can't be, no, I can't be ableist to you because you're autistic and I can only be ableist to you if you have a Physical disability? I can't be ableist to you. You

Amanda:

Yeah.

Leta:

Autism isn't a, isn't, isn't a disability. It's a superpower. Let me just throw out all the science about all the medical stuff and all the pain you go through every single day of your life because of the autism. Because there's physical pain with it. Let me just. CARE ABOUT THAT BECAUSE IT'S A SUPERPOWER! YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF FUCKING BULLSHIT! IT'S NOT A SUPERPOWER! YOU CAN'T HAVE A LOT OF FUCKING HOPE FOR IT! IT'S NOT A SUPERP

Amanda:

No. Okay. That's

Leta:

mutants that, like, have the worst of loving mutant powers because they give to physical pain every day of their life. That's what autism is. Get everyone fucking over yourself! Yeah, and a good amount of

Amanda:

I got the exact opposite. I got to mask more. I literally had the. Professionals that I was around continuously told me that I they're like, we don't know why you're depressed, but you need to act differently. You need to act like I've told you to act. You need to act. Typical or your life is going to be terrible. Um, guess what? Act in typical made my life terrible. Acting me makes my life freeing. And yes, there are some things you have to do with autism. Like you really should say hi to people and you should do your manners. But if it is something as simple as looking people in the eyes, do you know how many cultures in this world do not appreciate looking in eyes? Because looking into an eye is considered looking into someone's soul.

Leta:

my teachers already gave me their whole lives. I don't need more of that life story. I mean, you already complained about your mama and your papa to me and your grandmother and your family members. I don't need your whole life story! Hell, you keep telling me to keep my life out of the classroom while you're using me as a diary and every other children in this

Amanda:

It's going great today. We've gotten a little personal and I like it. Um, I'm trying to figure out how to say this without sounding like a jerk. No, but like the other thing is like, there were things I liked that my therapists were like, well, you can't like that. You're giving me a look because it wasn't. Appropriate there were other things that other people were like, you can't like that because it's not appropriate. And it wasn't even like, stupid inappropriate stuff. It was like marine biology. Oh, and I am so sorry. I liked marine biology. Can't do that because marine biology is not appropriate. Do not get me started.

Leta:

So it's kind of like me, and when I was younger, and uh, DIDN'T REALIZE, YEAH, YOU PROBABLY TRYING GETTING MAD OVER PEOPLE GETTING MY LITTLE PONY FACTS WRONG, AND TEACHERS BRINGING UP MY LITTLE PONY, AND ME GOING, TWILIGHT SPARKLE ISN'T THE DAUGHTER OF CELESTIA! Celestia doesn't have a husband. Also, Midnight Moon is not Celestia's little sister. Midnight Moon is basically a virus that took over her little sister and her little brother. So, uh, Midnight Moon is basically a virus that took over her little sister and her little brother. Also, there's no such thing as a queen. There's princesses, and princesses alone, and you can't buy all You can't be blood related to a princess, and no, there isn't such thing as a royal family. How do you not get this? It's for kids!

Amanda:

No, I had teachers flat out. Tell me that marine biology was not a legitimate science. These were teachers who did not have degrees in science. I would like to mention they had B. A. S. and education.

Leta:

A whale isn't real? Because, a whale is part of marine biology, so, um, A whale, a shark, and, uh, basically every creature in the ocean isn't real now, okay.

Amanda:

I tell you. Oh, what was it? Oh, um. Couldn't like old Westerns on TV because that was inappropriate though. I mean, uh,

Leta:

Well, there was guns, and murder. So, 90s, 80s.

Amanda:

it was. But MTV and, you know, all that stuff was totally appropriate.

Leta:

Doesn't that have more guns and murder?

Amanda:

Oh, so, you know, how on YouTube now, um, and this gets back to what masking is terrible. I had a music teacher who will remain nameless. Um. Who I really did like, but she got into it with 1 of our other teachers, because our teacher was letting us listen to. Love songs that is totally in quotation marks there and it was. Uh. A bunch of songs that on YouTube now, a bunch of people, my age are going back and looking at these songs and going, uh, you know, what their love songs as long as the affair is a love song. The look in your eyes, like, no, we were doing these as oh, but these are love stories. You should aspire to yet. No, you know what? They were they were about people cheating with their spouses on other people. But I don't know. You haven't noticed, possibly speaking, um, and I'm trying to be nice about this, um, the same people who are telling you, you have to mask the same people who are telling you, you have to change who you are the same people who are,

Leta:

It's about what my little pony is.

Amanda:

okay, they already is about my little pony, but then when you are given your ability to just go at it and tap dance, they all sit back and go, wow, she's amazing. This is not directed at anyone in L. A. That we love and adore your smiling. Um, because you do have to learn choreography every now and then. And you do learn choreography, but the same people who are sitting there going. Well, Leta needs to mask needs to be doing this. She needs to be doing this in class. She needs to not be stemming. So you're too focused on that. I'm assuming to listen to the teacher because you're focusing on masking and masking makes it impossible to listen to the teachers. You're focused on not tapping your foot, which I mean, I'm moving and tapping my foot and I'm stuck. Guess what? Everyone who's super intelligent does this nonstop, right, Leta?

Leta:

Also, on that super power thing, I will forever and only always hyper fixate on that because I don't remember what that beloved dumb idiot

Amanda:

Do not get

Leta:

it's a super power. But last time I checked, even physical pain is on super power! That's cold. YOU BADLY WISH YOU WEREN'T IN PAIN!

Amanda:

Okay, so we're gonna That was the thing that got me started this morning on that, uh, article. Because what it was is that this one dancer needed to hyperfixate on how the step worked, the mechanics of the step, what it took to do these steps, why she was doing these steps. She needed to hyperfixate on the steps to learn it, and she's in the article going, yes, once I learned I couldn't do that, I got better at being at dance studio. So whatLetata?

Leta:

Did she get better at dance? I feel like it's more important to know she got better at dance.

Amanda:

No, she got better at being in the studio.

Leta:

feel like it should be, Did you or did you get better at d I FEEL LIKE IT SHOULD BE, DID YOU OR DID YOU GET BETTER AT THIS THING WE'RE LITERALLY INTERVIEWING YOU FOR AND LITERALLY And on autism because this is an article about dance! And she can better

Amanda:

No, the article said she got better at being in dance classes.

Leta:

she got better and she's there to learn! Then she can better as a thing! She's there to learn! If she isn't a bad thing! She's paying people so she can learn it! Then I don't know, maybe the faith is for crap!

Amanda:

no, the article did not say that. In there, nowhere did she say, once I learned to mask, I got better at dance. It was once I learned how to properly act at the studio, I got better at dance classes. Congrats dance. One of the dance teachers was like, yes, we were another dance teacher who was like, we preach inclusiveness. We want our kids to be better at dance classes.

Leta:

I bet they're also racist.

Amanda:

I won't say that, but they're definitely ableist without meaning to the whole article just read, like, an ableist article and I'm sitting there going and this was your big autism awareness month article to this magazine from a couple of years ago.

Leta:

that's Like seriously, how did I not know this was a month until now?

Amanda:

Because we didn't, I don't know very. Parents celebrate Autism Awareness Month. A few Autism Awareness creators will celebrate Autism Awareness Month because it brings them more, you know, views. I've never celebrated Autism Awareness Month because I'm like, for one month, you spout a whole bunch of stupid stuff that none of you are actually going to do that. You keep spouting you're going to do. It is, oh, we need to be more inclusive. How do I make you act more like I want you

Leta:

Oh yes, and also, if I get one person this month, because um, Yeah, well those

Amanda:

This is an Autism Awareness

Leta:

Awareness Month was a thing, And apparently I was supposed to know that was a thing, So if I get one more person this month telling me that

Amanda:

No, it's in April.

Leta:

April telling me autism is a superpower, autism is a gift, autism is, uh, what's that last one, that last one,

Amanda:

It's a thing you are born with. It is not what autism is a gift. Autism is a superpower. What's the other one that I

Leta:

Oh, STRENGTHS! Apparently, being in pain is strength. Apparently, your eyeballs being in pain is strength. Apparently, pain is strength. Also, apparently, getting migraines with certain things is a strength. Apparently, apparently, the fiends, they force you to be in pain and force praying for you is a, is a strength. Apparently, that is a strength. Apparently, we're just gonna be, like, bullcrapping for our science. I was waiting a little bit, because apparently, we went to school for nothing!

Amanda:

There's going to be a little bit bleeping in this episode. Um, but I'm not going to say a word. Uh, here's the thing though. Um, I think it's not a strength. I think that autistic people wind up making it a strength, not, not the autism itself, but you see more autistic people, more neurodivergent people more and we need a better deal than neurotypical neurodivergent and have for a while.

Leta:

Uh, I got an idea. The Kingdom of Craziness!

Amanda:

here's the thing. You see the more. Successful people have come from the neuro divergent world and I think it is because we are always fighting. We're always the underdogs. We're always fighting for everything you're masking. While it is taking decades off your life does kind of teach you a lot as much as everyone and I'm sure I'm going to get some hate for this as much as everyone seems to think autistic people do not understand human nature. I think autistic people have a more. Knowledgeable base about the human nature, because they're studying it nonstop to try and fit in.

Leta:

Let's see. You know you are not really nice people even though you say you're nice people. And now that you say you don't tolerate violence and yet you do violence.

Amanda:

let's keep the violence out of you. No, I mean, I think it is institutionalized ableism. And I think we allow institutionalized ableism more than anything else. Is, I think, not a strength. I think it does because you are busy studying the human nature. I, cause I don't know if you do it, but. Well, maybe not as much as I've done it, but trying to understand how to mask, trying to understand how to fit in, trying to do all this. I think autistic people I've been talking without water for a little bit without meaning to becomes. Students of humanity, I think if you're looking at, I think 1 of the best students of humanity, uh, stories out there. Um, I think when you look at Sherlock Holmes, it's probably very obvious nowadays that the character Sherlock Holmes was most likely autistic correctly. And he was based off a real life guy,

Leta:

Um, hello. Have you seen how he just flat out kills Watson? I'm in the corner there, trying to do my job, just let me shut up and let me think, Watson. Just let me think. Yes, I know this is a magnifying glass, but it's worthless in this scenario. BUT LET ME JUST USE THE MAGNIFY GLASS SO I JUST CAN PLAY AROUND AND TOY WITH SOMETHING! STAND BACK THERE, WATSON! JUST SHUT UP, WATSON! JUST SHUT

Amanda:

but I think there's the thing you look at Sherlock Holmes masks kind of not really and people around him are all like, they're in, Thralled by his intelligence, but they don't know how to interact with him. And I think you see him learning to. That's why he is so good at what he does, I think, in understanding human nature, is he's tried to study human nature so that he can kind of fit in.

Leta:

Yes, that's how I'm gonna do another one. Because, I've watched the mouse version of Sherlock

Amanda:

The Great Mouse Detective?

Leta:

and it's like, in that one I feel like he's speaking Hello Watson, I know there's tea and crumpets on the case! I don't want those teas and crumpets! Don't make me try to eat the teas and crumpets! I'm hyperfocused! I'm hyperfixating here! Just let me hyperfixate! Oh, hello small, tiny child. Where did this come from? I was hyperfixating.

Amanda:

Um, Not like anyone in this family has been hyper fixating the last couple days of getting

Leta:

I've been hyperfixated on Pokemon.

Amanda:

See, yeah, I'm not autistic, I'm just super autistic.

Leta:

I don't like the mouse, Sherlock Holmes, at least you

Amanda:

Okay, let's wrap

Leta:

child came from.

Amanda:

And let's wrap this up slightly because, um, it's that time, um, if you could talk to the traditional dance teachers and tell them what would help someone like you out for inclusive space, what would you say when it comes to masking specifically?

Leta:

First off, let me make you not have a tiny world view that is speak of this. Secondly, if you wanted me to do free labor for you, first off, I'm not doing free labor, gimme every love of candy. Secondly, everyone shut up while I'm trying to tell you stuff, just shut that mouth of yours, just shut up, just shut up, just every love, shut up.

Amanda:

You have been asked by teachers before, because I'll come out and go, Leta was speaking after I asked her a question. I'm like, um, okay, you asked her to explain her autism. She tried to explain her autism. And the next thing I know is they're coming out going. She answered my question. I'm sorry, the autism and means going what?

Leta:

seriously, why, why? Like, seriously, I did not think I was doing free labor until I realized, Yeah, I'm not getting paid for this anytime soon. Yeah, no. No, I'm out

Amanda:

mean,

Leta:

out of this, like, sure, like, I'm not getting paid for this.

Amanda:

Is it an inclusive environment when you are being asked to mask non stop in your dance classes?

Leta:

Oh, does that mean a question?

Amanda:

That's a you question.

Leta:

Well, help a child go to the grave quicker, and that, and having depression, and that, and having, like, well, Usually comes with depression. Yeah, pushing you off of the edge, you just take a knife to your chest or dead or I'm not saying anything else.

Amanda:

um,

Leta:

that did not help anything, but murder children and then make you a somewhat child murderer.

Amanda:

I don't think I do not think a good number of your former dance teachers know how depressed you were in dance classes.

Leta:

Yeah, we're gonna go with surprise. Let's not say how badly I wanted DID at six.

Amanda:

Uh, D. I. E.

Leta:

Yeah that.

Amanda:

I mean, but that's the depression talking. Um, I think there's a lot of other things that would make this space inclusive, but the idea that you have. To mask and I don't understand it and I will in this section here before we go off into other stuff. I don't understand why teachers can say in the same breath. I need your child to mask which they're not asking masking. I need your child to act typical. I need them to act the way I want them to act, but I love who your child is. You don't, I mean, I'm 40 some odd years old and I will tell you, I have, I mean, you've heard me say there are teachers who were like, I loved you as a kid and me going.

Leta:

They went to a history class for nothing. Because obviously they learned nothing from the Ableist and the other parts of history class. They went to a history class for nothing.

Amanda:

Um,

Leta:

is worse for nothing than

Amanda:

I'm asking back. So masking bad. Uh, masking and dance studios is what they're asking people to do in inclusive spaces and asking someone to mask is not inclusive. It's just making it a more inclusive environment for the. Neuro typical people, this week we have a doctor coming on the program. I think it's going to be amazing tune in on Friday for that we do, talk a little bit more about ableism and masking, at the risk of getting yet another clip out of you if people. Want to come on the podcast. How do they come on the podcast?

Leta:

Uh, yes my mommy. Hi Madge.

Amanda:

Where might be the most likely place that we are hanging out looking for guests. Pod what? Pod match. Uh, we've got on the website, uh, do you know the website?

Leta:

Um, um,

Amanda:

as the podcast name here.

Leta:

the dub styles, maybe with the dot? Come to heart. withlmelodies? With hardy hardy

Amanda:

There's no hard emojis and websites addresses

Leta:

melody?

Amanda:

because that would like, totally make the computer algorithm go

Leta:

melodies? Why? Arch! Arch!, Arch!!!!

Amanda:

finish this?

Leta:

Butterflies

Amanda:

So, on

Leta:

Beeeeeeeee

Amanda:

leadestepstyles. com, uh, dot com, uh, we have links to our podcast match stuff pod matches how to get to us, um, or DM or, you know, contact us off the website. Next question, Leta, you happen to know of any dance studio in Colorado Springs that may be an, maybe autistic wings dance company as a nonprofit here in Colorado Springs founded by Leta, in, 2024, um, we are currently. Outgrowing our space. We desperately need people to donate so that we can have a bigger space and have more classes and help more kids on the autism spectrum who need a safe place to be themselves quirks and all and what do we not allow at the studio Leta? Do we allow masking at the studio? All right. So if you have a few dollars, we are trying to do a 10 a month, uh, donation drive pledge drive right now. Um, the link will be in the description, description of the podcast or description below. If you're watching on YouTube, see everyone Friday, then Leta.

Leta:

so if any of you heard me talking about My Little Pony, I suggest you watch My Little Pony, because My Little Pony Gen 4 is the best My Little Pony in the whole wide world!

Amanda:

See everyone on Friday.

Leta:

Hey well, thank you for watching the podcast and please subscribe and also look at that adorable pittie. Don't you want to subscribe for it and also please leave a like and don't forget if you subscribe to our stuff you won't miss any of our new podcast stuffies and also you can see that adorable pittie. Don't you like it?

People on this episode

Contributor

Amanda Trisdale

Host
Head Shot

Leta Rundell

Host