Leta's Tap Styles
Thirteen years old Leta is a member of Chloe Arnold's international youth tap company, SoleTalk, a podcaster, a founder of a nonprofit dance studio for autistic dancers like her, severely dyslexic, and has autism. Along with her mom, Amanda, Leta discusses a varity of issues from the bullying Leta has faced in dance studios because of her autism and dyslexia, to the difficulties of starting a new nonprofit. Along the way, Leta and Amanda also talk about Leta's love of tap dancing. They also host special guests ranging from Leta's dance family and friends, to experts in ASD, to parents and advocates of complex kids.
Leta's Tap Styles
Step into My Shoes: Rebecca's Journey from Nonverbal to Special Education Advocate
In this episode of Leta’s Tap Styles, guest Rebecca Engle, a special education teacher, ten-time author, and six-time poet, shares her experiences growing up nonverbal, her journey to becoming verbal, and her work in special education. Rebecca uses her own experiences using IEPs and 504s as a student to explain the importance of both IEPs and 504s. We discuss Rebecca’s experiences with writing both children's books and poetry. Rebecca’s insights on the struggles faced by autistic individuals with educational and therapeutic systems from the viewpoint of someone on the Spectrum themselves.
Connect with Rebecca via the following links
Hello, this is Leta, and this is me and my mommy's podcast. And there's my mommy, and there's me, and I'm just talking about this stuff. And there's me tap dancing, because this is a tap dancing slash autism podcast. And there's a bunch of animals, and wallby trying to eat my hair. And there's a bunch of sand and ocean. Also, there's all the SoleTalk stuff. I love all my mentors and friends. All that going on, so old. Yeah, it's like life's coming to an end. Oh, and also, there's my boots. My boots are amazing. Also, there's me, trying not to have a panic attack. Also, this is a podcast about me. my autism, dancing, and blah, blah, blah. I'm just ADHD and this is it. Also, there's my cute, adorable puppies.
Amanda:Hi. Welcome to friends Friday here at leaders tap styles. Today. We have Rebecca Engle. I hope I got that last name. Right? I am terrible at last names. Rebecca, I'm also terrible at introducing our guests. Do you mind introducing yourself to our audience? Like, uh, you're meeting them at a coffee shop
Rebecca:Sure. I'm Rebecca Engel. I am a special education teacher, a ten time author, and six time poet. Um, I also, uh, help people navigate the special education systems and laws and policies in place.
Amanda:when I was reading everything you do. I'm just like, I don't know if we can cover it all in an hour. I may have to go. Hey, come back later because it's amazing. I mean, being a poet, being a 10 time author, you were also like, Leta, you were nonverbal for a long time. Correct?
Rebecca:Yes, I was.
Amanda:Um, a lot. Uh, Leta has a dance studio. A lot of our parents are shocked to find out being diagnosed as a nonverbal as a child. Young child doesn't mean you're nonverbal the whole time. When did you start going? I'm going to that sounded wrong. I'm stopping that. That sounded so able as the way to say that. Can you discuss a little bit about. Um, once more, that's bad. Sorry, Rebecca. I'm just interested because I know kids, Leta, especially when you guys become verbal, you guys can become verbal. How did that work for you? Were you like, did it? Come in little chunks, or did it come all at once? Were your parents like, she's never gonna learn to speak? Does that kind of make sense what I'm getting at? Leta's
Rebecca:So, when I was four, my teacher looked at my mom and said, Your daughter will never Be able to, you know, talk. So I don't know what you're doing and my behavior wise and all this stuff. And my mom said, give me 2 weeks, uh, within that 2 weeks, I said, 22 words, um, and. Following that, those were the 22 words I used in most instances, besides the words not today. Whenever I went to therapy, I would tell my therapist not today. And, uh, as I grew older, I, um, when I became 5, I never stopped talking, um, I was in speech therapy until I was 11, and, um, Then, after that, I feel like they kind of just gave up on me being able to say my R's correctly. Cause even now, I'm like, whoa, every time I have to say an R, so.
Amanda:laughing because they kicked her out of speech therapy because of the same thing. They're like, well, she might learn her R's. Um, you can say that into your microphone. It is an audio too.
Leta:I said I had no idea.
Amanda:Um, I know with Leta, it was dance that took off because she was nonverbal up until she was 6. Her physical therapist was like, her stem is a complicated 3 point tap dance move. Put her in dance then I don't suggest this for parents because she was so good at tap. They put my 7 year old and with middle schoolers. So as she was learning language, she was in with middle school and high schoolers. You can guess. Everyone's like, you could have had, didn't you enjoy the baby talk? I'm like, she went from nonverbal.
Leta:Never, babe. She went
Amanda:from nonverbal to talking like a teenager. And that was not fun.
Rebecca:I, uh, I was, I was the same way with soccer. So, when I was a little girl, I was a soccer player. And then, they were like, you should try indoor soccer. And so my mom threw me in an indoor soccer league, and I was surrounded by kids. That were older than me, uh, teenagers. I was like eight. Um, I had never played indoor soccer. Um, and my coach said, go. And I just started kicking the ball around and going crazy. So that was,
Amanda:And it does change how you grow up being surrounded by older kids.
Rebecca:yes.
Amanda:Let me make sure my Mac's on for this. I was really interested because we don't have very many special ed teachers who also are autistic themselves. How does that. Influence and change how you approach your job.
Rebecca:I feel like so many days I go to work and I feel like I'm a teacher for both the teachers and the kids. And I think that having that mindset is, um, Positive in some aspects, but I also feel, uh, it's harmed me in other aspects because I feel like I'm so busy correcting behavior management and issues that I see, uh, general education teachers using with my sped friends that I don't get to enjoy the kids as much some days because I'm so busy. And so living in fear of the traumas that they're getting, gonna have from their, um, teachers who don't necessarily understand their needs, not because they don't want to, just because there is a lack of professional development for general education classroom teachers that, um, works with special ed populations, because so many times you see just, you know, well, you have a special education teacher for that. You don't have to know it. And I know in my instance, a lot of the time I hear, um, the biggest thing that I think I, I've changed is the commentary on, well, you just had a break. You were at lunch. You just had a break. You were at recess. And I still sometimes hear that. And I'm like, that was a academic break, not an emotional processing break. You know, I I tell my I tell my co workers I said when I when my kids take a break, I ask them if they even want me in the room
Amanda:I mean, I completely understand that part. It's, being around people is sometimes very tiring when you're autistic. Um, I know with Leta, she had a lot of dance teachers who, I try to be nice. She's 13. She's not nice anymore. Okay, you can,
Leta:Hello, yes, what part of you saying I hanged around very much older kids when I was very young and you don't understand? Why do people think I'm sweet? I'm not sweet. I'm not sweet. I'm not sweet. Damn, I'm sweet as that.
Amanda:you had a lot of her dance teachers. One, they think they're educators and a lot of my friends are professors or depart or the education department guys and I'm sitting there going, dear dance teachers, if you don't have, if you don't have an education background, like at college, you don't quite know everything you're trying to say. Um, But they also Googled instead coming to me. They Googled autism. They Googled Leta has severe dyslexia and they Google dyslexia. You go.
Leta:I also couldn't say my last name, right? And I was the one going to speech therapy and yet I couldn't say Rundell and I was the one going to speech therapy and I couldn't say Rundell. Oh, spell my name right.
Amanda:did also get a lot of dance teachers telling her she was spelling her name wrong and they told me I was spelling it wrong. And I'm like, I put it on her, uh, birth certificate. I think I know how I was spelling it,
Leta:Also said your last name wasn't your last name. I also tried to explain to me how marriage was on the last name part, and I had to tell her that your last name isn't rda. Like,
Amanda:last name's too long. You get to go by your maiden name. So I went by my maiden name and dance teachers think they know everything. Um, 1 of the biggest issues we had was the, hey, we Googled autism. We Googled dyslexia. So we know what it is. Um, I know when she was in this, do you ever run into. General ed teachers that are like, I used Google today.
Rebecca:Yeah, um I do I I think To I get a lot of well, I've taught this before so I know what I'm doing Or I've had an autistic student. This isn't my first autistic student. So I know what I'm doing or I've taught special ed. So I know what I'm doing and it's like, but have you lived special ed, you know, like I can, I can, I can teach a lot of things, but if I haven't lived it, am I giving the same perspective as somebody who has right? Um, I can talk about teaching an African American student. I can talk about teaching an Asian student. I can talk about their culture, but I'm not a part of it. I, I mean, I'm, I'm white, right? Like, I can't, I haven't lived their life. I can't give that same perspective.
Amanda:A lot. Yeah. She's like, I like this person. A lot of the. Issues we had with Leta, which I think probably go into the school system, too, because I've done so much advocacy, um, within this public school system for miLetary families, we had, well, stemming isn't an autistic thing. Well, looking people in the eye isn't something autistic kids don't do because I've had other autistic kids and then you get a little annoyed with your teachers.
Leta:like, seriously. At least at six I knew the difference between a rabbit and hair. Between a rabbit and hair!
Amanda:Okay. Yeah, it's because you, that's one of your autistic fun things is looking at zoology and learning about animals. And,
Leta:One's very much taller and skinnier than the other, and the other's chubbier and floofier. It's a very obvious difference!
Amanda:um, do you ever feel like you're having to explain simple things like the teachers who were like, well, if she's not looking me in the eye, she must be disrespecting me. And I'm like, I'm 43 and I don't want to look you in the eye.
Rebecca:Yes, um, I see that all the time. I see the, you're not looking at me, uh, which means you're not listening and they'll define listening as looking in the eyes and, uh, I see that every day and no matter how much I argue it, I get told I'm wrong. Uh, it drives me insane. Uh, I hate eye contact. I was attacked for it in my undergrad. Um, actually was told I couldn't clinical teach simply due to my eye contact problems and how my words were in my mouth. Um, when I conveyed them, so, um, I had to go through an alternative certification program simply due to my lack of eye contact, uh, which was four thousand dollars extra that I didn't have. Um, but, yeah, I hear that all the time.
Amanda:The other one we got was, like I said, one of her biggest stim is a complicated three point tap move and the amount of teachers who are like, we can correct it and we'll make it where it's perfect and I'll correct how she's doing it. And I'm sitting there going, have you? Looked at stimming and they're like, well, yeah, just because it's subconscious doesn't mean I can't, you know, correct the move. She's making.
Rebecca:Yeah, um, my common stim was flapping my arms, um, and, I've seen other people stimming, and I've never thought about changing or correcting it. Um, I have a little girl right now, and her stimming is this, like she flips the marker. Um, in her hand, and, but she does it in her desk, like in her lap. And I hear all the time, well she's not paying attention, so the alternative was to take all of her stuff out of her desk and leave her with nothing. So, of course, an alternative to doing that, she's finding things like her pant strings. Or, you know, in ripping her shoes apart or playing with her shoelaces or because everything in her desk was her stimming material and now she don't have it. Um, and, uh, the teacher spent so much time correcting the fact she's stimming with a pencil that I'm like, no wonder they're not learning and they're failing their quizzes. Because it's not just the, um, it's not just the autistic kids that are, um, Failing their assessments. It's kids across the board.
Amanda:I did notice that in her dance classes was they were not how do I put this nicely? They were sickling. They were doing other things. They shouldn't have been doing because the teacher should have been looking at that and correcting that, but they're spending so much time on Leta.
Leta:My eyes wandering distracts no one. I don't know why they thought my eyes wandering was distracting anyone. It distracts no one. No one! That doesn't make sense! That's a feat to distract anyone!
Amanda:I mean, I'm not really sure what the eyes wandering have to do with anything, but I've only been living this life for 43 years. We also got a lot of because she has severe dyslexia teachers were making and dance class, making her read in front of people and they were like, well, she's just being lazy. If she would, if she would just focus, if she would just work on it, yeah. I'm guessing you see that too. And I had some dance teachers not to be mean to neurotypical parents, but they would come in and go, well, the neurotypical parents are forcing their kids to just read
Rebecca:Yeah, um, in my multiple years of being a pre K teacher, they're moving to third, fourth and fifth and tutoring and all of that. I've worked with plenty of dyslexia kiddos and I've heard that over and over again. Um, and it drives me insane. I don't have dyslexia, but I did an amazing training called the experience dyslexia training and it you experience the frustration levels of dyslexia, you don't necessarily experience dyslexia because they can't, you know, change your brain, but you experience the same frustration levels and I literally remember parents of dyslexic kiddos throwing stuff across the room because they were so aggravated trying to read and trying to write with this. Uh. You know, like we had to write into a mirror, like we could only look at a mirror and then we had to write down on paper. And then we've done, um, we did like an activity where we had to read a book. Um, but it was all symbols instead of words and you had to memorize what those symbols symbols aligned with with words. And you only had like 10 minutes to like dissect this whole simple. Then it was like a full book, like, you know, like a full chapter book like this, but with all symbols.
Amanda:that. Uh, yeah, sounds about right. Um, with her severe dyslexia, she also does her eye trackings from right to left, top to bottom, and trying to explain that to dance teachers. And I'm wondering if you ever have to have. A discussion as a special ed teacher with general ed teachers. Though having had general ed teachers, I'm guessing the answer myself, the answer is yes. Uh, what? All of this is, and how many are like, well, I looked at the lesser side cause I don't have nearly as bad of dyslexia as she and my sister have, but I looked at the lesser side and everything should be where the easy kids have it. Cause I honestly think my dyslexia is the easy version of dyslexia. Do you have to ever explain to teachers the spectrum of all of the special ed needs? When
Rebecca:um, I have, uh, and I've even had to do that with special ed teachers. I mean, it's crazy. And then even when I was in school, um, I remember getting in a ninth grade, I got an assignment back and it said, um, 90, you lost 10 points, learn how to talk. Like written on the assignment. That's what I got back. And, uh, I had the integumentary system. So you can imagine, that word, in panic, in front of a crowd, probably not my strongest word. Um, I still can't say it, I'm like, what is with the system? But anyway, um, you can imagine, I, Yeah, um and This and I came up to this teacher and I was like, by the way I had this speech impediment like I was nonverbal like part of my life and she was like Well, you don't have an iap or 504 because at this time I didn't because I was almost a straight a student. Why would I? and um they And you know the accommodations were like extended test time. I didn't need that um and I needed understanding people who were okay with a speech impediment. Like, um, and you know, I said, I said this to her and she was like, well, I don't think you really have that. Like, there's no way. And I was like, okay, like whatever, like, I'm not going to fight you. But yeah, I've, I've seen it all.
Amanda:Leta was diagnosed, I made her neuro. Neurologist and her developmental come to the IEP meeting with us because she was in private school, but the school system you want,
Leta:Rock, cement, hammer, throwing! Everyone tried to tell females their ages like this, but like, hell, I didn't even know what crushes or boyfriends or girlfriends were yet, so why would you even explain that to little toddlers? Boy, throwing a little 11 11 effing hammer!
Amanda:I should probably explain that while we were all slightly more concerned about the fact that Braveheart County schools wouldn't give lead a speech because she was nonverbal. So they decided she didn't qualify for speech therapy,
Rebecca:Oh, okay.
Amanda:Preschool teacher was, cause she went to a Montessori school. One of the boys was throwing stuff and they were told, oh, it's okay. By the school system, Leta, that that was not aggressive. He's a boy, he has autism. He's going to throw stuff. Leta being a girl, she was having meltdowns cause she didn't understand. You need to go to the bathroom before we go out to, uh, the playground for recess. And her teacher's like, I need help. I don't know how to communicate with her. What can the school system. Give me to communicate with her and in the middle of the meeting, her preschool teacher blew up because, um, she was definitely not from the public school system and Bravard County schools like, oh, we didn't know she was having meltdowns. We'll write her down as being aggressive because as a girl with meltdowns. She was aggressive, but the boy throwing the stuff not aggressive.
Rebecca:Love it. Um, We've all been there. Um, I was sent to the principal's office every day throughout all of kindergarten every single soLetary day My teacher would hand out everybody a red lollipop, which I'm allergic to red dye so you can imagine And would hand out a red lollipop to every kid and go. Sorry Becca. You didn't earn one you were at the principal's Every single, and I couldn't even, I couldn't even earn one. I'm allergic. And, um, every day she had the system implemented. And, um, I would always go home without a lollipop. Um, but, yeah, um, They put me in her room because they ran out of room in the inclusion room. So they decided instead of giving me the teacher that was certified for special ed and gen ed, that because my brothers, who are neurotypical, had this teacher, that I would be okay in the room and she'd be okay with me. It was my first time ever in a general ed classroom. I had been self contained since then. And they threw me in a non inclusion room with all gen ed kids with an IEP, a very loaded IEP, because I was literally self contained the year prior. All right. Into this classroom with a non certified bed teacher.
Amanda:I Earlier last fall may have had a discussion with my kindergarten teacher, which she did not understand Because we had yeah, it was last fall She was in one of these I should be so excited She wanted in tickets to get into an event and she called me up going. Can you get me in? Let me finish and I'm like, why would I get you into an event? And she's like, well, you loved me as a kindergarten teacher. And my response was, well, you forgot that. I was supposed to be in the, uh, deal to get the letters. Like, every week we would bring in, you know, clippings from magazines and newspapers. I am old from what the letter of the week was and we put them on these big poster board letters. I was in speech while they were all getting their weekly drawings to see who got to take home the letters and she forgot completely until the end of the year when one of the kids was like, well, Amanda hasn't gotten one and the rest of us have gotten like two or three
Rebecca:Oh, okay.
Amanda:and she's like, that didn't leave a lasting effect. I'm like, I'm 43 and I'm bringing this up to you right now. I think it may have. And it's a stupid things you remember like the lollipop or not getting the letter.
Rebecca:Yep, and that's PBIS, and it's still recommended by the federal government on both sides of the political spectrum. And it's also recommended by all 50 states Department of Education. Um, no matter how blue or how red the state is, all systems recommend it. So until it becomes a bipartisan hatred, it's not going away.
Amanda:Oh, yeah. No. Um, and it was the 80s. So it was even better in the 80s for all this.
Rebecca:Oh, yeah. Yes,
Amanda:I do like asking because we have some issues up in our state, which we shouldn't because, you know, Supposedly, oh, she's showing off her puppy real quick because he's laying in the sun. Um, Can you explain to parents who are neurotypical? Listening to the politicians, I am going to send this to in my state and go, hi, it's not just me saying it. Shut up. You idiots, which I can say, because I know them personally. It's a different subject when, you know, personally, right? How important is an and a 504 to these students?
Rebecca:well, 1st of all, um. The gives the student the protections they need the accommodations, the modifications that they need to succeed and it also protects them from teachers. You suck and don't want to implement these. Things without it. Shout out to the teachers who accommodate regardless of an IEP and 504. I love you. Um, and then the 504 straight up just protects the students medical disability. Um, the, you know, if you don't, if you don't have a 504, you're, I'm screwed. I think one of my biggest regrets was after I got off my IEP, they said, you're good. You don't need any form of documentation, but I had medical diagnosed disabilities. And not having that protection in place led me to so much discrimination, and I could have probably sued so many times had I had that 504 in place because I dealt with harassment, you know, bullying, attacks, all of it, cyberbullying. Um, from 6 through the 12th grade and had I had that 504 in place, I think 1 of 1st of all, my grades would have been so much better. Um, I would have had the supports I need. And I ended up almost going back on a 504 documentation midway through college because 1 of the requirements was us attending a, um. In a school for our student teaching that was all the way on the opposite side of town. And if you know how big Texas is, the opposite side of town in a mega city is not 25 minutes. So they wanted me to travel from the north, the far, far north side of town, all the way to the far, far southwest side of town. I'm on the northeast side. I'm driving southwest. Medically, I cannot drive highways due to overstimulation and a foot disability. So it would have taken me an hour and 53 minutes every morning just to do my free student teaching. I wasn't getting paid for it. And, um, because I didn't have this documentation in place at first, they were like, well, we don't really, we don't care. Like, you're going to have to figure it out, find a ride, do something. And then even once I did get it in place, They were like, well, the best we can do is only an hour drive.
Amanda:And you are not we live in Colorado. Our state legislature is a bunch of Democrats and I'm like, um, currently I'm not happy with any of you. We're also possibly due to funding issues, cutting back on early intervention. Tabor is the dumbest thing ever. Anyone who wants taxpayer bill of rights just don't do it and you're not in a small town because, uh. My family's from Texas, uh, to the point there are. members of my family on a small building in your town because they, uh, died in that battle that I'm not sure I would want to go all the way across town for my student teaching. Downtown gives me panic attacks driving downtown where you live.
Rebecca:Oh, and it was during rush hour because we had to be there by 6 a. m. So, uh, I would have had to leave my house at like 4.
Amanda:Yeah, I'm lucky most of my family still in the DFW area, but I hate driving DFW.
Rebecca:Yep, I'm San Antonio.
Amanda:Yeah, um, I had family members who fought down at the Alamo. There were family members of mine that were on the Government during that timeframe.
Rebecca:Oh, okay.
Amanda:So it, it's a long history with Texas. We're the one idiots who decided, hey, let's go try to beat the Mexican army. Um, and then my sister married a guy who can trace his lineage back to the Mexican army on that side, Um, but I wanted to talk about the books.'cause the books, I mean, that is impressive. Uh, can you talk, because I noticed you have kids books. Do you mind, um, talking a little bit about the books for the audience?
Rebecca:Sure. So my children's book is called Step Into My Shoes. It's about navigating your life in school as a special education child, um, and trying to, uh, form a social circle and communicate and, um, have your peers understand you. And, uh, it kind of is based off of my life and a few other kids I got to work with throughout my years. Um, You know, I've been as a student teacher, as a volunteer, I've been working with kids for the last 10 years. Um, and then, uh, my other books are all, uh, more adult based. Um, I have one that's more of an autobiography and my stories featured in that. And that's woman of purpose, creating a better world, part one, um, by Shiloh Day. And then I have my poetry books, which all are, They're kid appropriate. Um, except for one I'd say. But, um, if you're, if you're not okay with cuss words, it's definitely not child appropriate. But, um, it kinda, they go into poems and poetry that I've, uh, you know, written. And then, um, I have another book coming out, March 25th. Uh, and that one is Autistics on Autism, which is stories of how we. Found ourselves and got to college.
Amanda:We're gonna need to link to that, all of that in our description below if you're okay with that.
Rebecca:Yes.
Amanda:May have to have you back on after I read, uh, the new book you've got, uh, coming out. Cause that sounds, uh, intriguingly interesting to me.
Rebecca:Awesome.
Amanda:I am just so excited that when I was younger, there was no one who was autistic at the table. We were told we weren't allowed at the table. And I'm just so excited that your generation and Leta's generation are at the table now talking. It sounds crazy, but we need our voices at the table that it doesn't need to just be the neuro typical people at the table.
Rebecca:I agree.
Amanda:I'm trying to put this nicely because I have friends who teach, uh, ed classes and our doc advisors in your lovely state, not to mention plenty of family members in your lovely state and education. Have you been able to get your book into the kids books into libraries in your state? State, um,
Rebecca:it is, uh, it is in a few libraries. Um, and it's also, um, it's also in some schools and some classrooms.
Amanda:I know some of my friends because, you know, most of my friends and everything are over in El Paso. They're going to ask the question. Does it come in Spanish
Rebecca:Um, my book does not come in Spanish. I am working with someone who is a dual language teacher to get it written in Spanish so I can publish that.
Amanda:leaders miLetary? But most of her life she has spent in Las Cruces, El Paso area. So, a lot of our friends are in, you know, or University of New Mexico, New Mexico State University. I almost said University of New Mexico. That's where my aunt was a librarian for over 30 years. You're just being quiet. You're like, I want to cussy word on a lot of this stuff. I've told her she can't curse on the podcast. Um, the poetry, I always like asking poets cause I dabbled with it as a kid, but got told it was stupid and gave it up. What is writing poetry like?
Rebecca:It's kind of my therapy. That's actually how I started writing. I had no intentions to write, um, like long stories and things. Um, my poetry is like my therapeutical, um, outtake, I guess you can say. I feel like I, um, kind of, uh, use that as a relief. Um, this is one of my published poems. Um, and it's graduating college with autism. Um, and it kind of just like goes into that, but I feel like when I'm angry, when I'm stressed out, when I'm sad, I, um, just write and then I turn it into a poem. Um, I don't know if it's my autism or what, but everything that I take in, um, and every time I give advice, it comes out very poetically and song like. Um, and a lot of my poetry, when I first started writing it, when I was in 8th and 9th grade, I was struggling with depression. And a lot of my, uh, poems were very much based on, uh, What I was going through at the time, but I would listen to a song while I was writing and I would take words and things from that song and just write that word. And I would like, like, you know, pain and I would write a poem about pain. Um, or, you know, I had a, one of my favorite pieces by me is called, um, is called, uh, jacket pain. And it's, um, Yeah. You're not being able to physically want to show your body, um, whether that be due to self harming or whether that be due to trauma or weight or however you interpret the words. But I had a professor ask me every day when I was in my jacket. She said, are you cold? And she'd ask me that every day. And I already, I did not get along with this professor. We had a terrible relationship because. Everyone else would be in like shorts and a tank top and I would be in my jeans and a t shirt with my jacket on. And she would ask me, are you cold? And finally I turned that into a poem. And it was like, are you cold? And the premise of it was, I am cold, but I'm not cold in terms of the weather. I'm cold in terms of my mental being.
Amanda:I'm going to have to look that one up cause I was trying to get permission to wear a jacket in middle school, but Because I have severe anemia and circulation problems. So I was freezing plus I was also going through, um, anorexia and that between not having enough iron and not eating enough, but, um, going to lunch was. Strangely enough, very traumatic as an autistic child, and I don't think the adults around me knew how much eating lunch around other people was traumatic. I know, Leta, you can jump up on the pizza one if you want to, because Leta had a speech therapist who made her eat pizza.
Leta:If any Italians are watching, yes, I do think pizza is evil. I'm sorry to any Italians. Yes, I just flat out think pizza is evil now. If you want to be mad at someone, be mad at those therapists. You can go up to them with those therapists.
Amanda:She had a speech therapist because Leta has a texture issue. Which is very common with autistic kids. She's screaming over there, but she was like, well, she's going to get bullied for not eating junk food. So we're going to make her eat pizza every single,
Leta:I got praised for not eating junk food because I don't know if they know this, but most people's parents say eat healthy.
Amanda:but her speech therapist would make her eat pizza every single. Day in speech therapy three times a week to try and get her to understand the texture was okay. And then Leta would throw up on her. I don't know how that happened.
Rebecca:Okay.
Amanda:I'm sure you have had plenty of therapists that were like, they'd like to do something stupid like this.
Rebecca:So, um, I've definitely, I've seen it in action. I had a speech therapist who used to, um, at the end of a session, our reward was spraying sour candy into our mouths. Um, you can imagine that was my, my elementary school speech therapist, but she would come up to us and she would spray, um, sour candy into her mouth. Um, and I mean, we had to ask for it. It wasn't like just the threat, but I'm like, I don't think this is a reward for anybody. It was like, like, to me, like, that was not an incentive. Um, but she would say open and she would spray the sour candy into her mouth. And, um. Every time we would get something wrong, um, she would threaten to take the spray away. And it was like used as like the sour spray candy in our mouths was used as like this threat within our over our heads. Um, and it's funny because I went to that campus a few, uh, months ago and they were like, yeah, she's retired. And I was like, Oh, wow.
Amanda:That's probably a good thing. Her speech therapist that did the pizza thing had been a speech therapist since the 70s. And she's like, well, this worked in the 80s. And I'm like, we're a little bit far removed from the 80s, but there's not. A lot of good papers on texture issues and eating with autism. I know she also had the absolute worst thing to have is have to go to physical therapy because she's got a bad hip. And so they were actually medical physical therapy and that poor therapist. He's like, I feel so bad. She can't have fun in this physical therapy because it's. You know, adult rehab on a 6 year old and I think he was her best therapist because he was the most empathetic about it. Um, and he was always like, they were only supposed to get the treasure chest, like, once a month. And he's like, you made it through. I don't care if you're crying, go grab the treasure chest and go get like, stickers or whatever. And some of the other therapists were like, but she's crying and he's like. Have you ever rehabbed a bad, her hip does not do ball and it's not a ball joint anymore. It was popped out of joint end 11 months or like maybe it'll grow back in. Fun fact, it did not. And so it's like halfway in halfway out of her hip joint and. He was the absolute best therapist because he had so much empathy and compassion going. There's no way I can make this fun. You I have to move that hip joint. I have to make you do this hard work. And I'm like, could you talk to the other therapist in the building real quick? Um, as a special ed teacher, you get to work with the therapist in the school system. Have you ever wanted to just sit them down and go? Hi, stop it.
Rebecca:Yeah, so, um, our speech therapist is amazing. I love her to death. Um, she, she's, she's a hero. Uh, and so is the one that I had before her. My, um, uh, the only thing that I've seen is Sometimes how rushed, uh, therapists want IEPs, uh, or how far out they want IEP meetings planned. Um, a lot of them are like, we need six months to make sure that we're writing the goals for the next IEP. And I'm like, I don't even know what I'm doing in six months, bro. I don't even know what I'll academically know in six months, let alone these children, like, dang. Um, and so I, I get a little bit annoyed with that. Um, but. On the other hand of things, um, the OT system in public schools here in Texas, I can't speak for everywhere, uh, they come for 20 minutes, they tell people to play with Play Doh, to straighten their hands, throw all the stuff at me, and then leave. And they go, you can do it. You got it. Here, so this is how you do it? This is how you work OT? Nope. Bye.
Amanda:She. Thanks to Bravard County, not giving her therapy because she didn't have speech. So she didn't qualify for speech therapy. She's always been in the private therapy sector and we have had OTs that were like, well, I mean, I don't know what to do because she needs more intense therapy than I can give her. Um, she had one private OT who was like, well, she's got the life skills. She just needs me to teach her like how to hold a pencil. And the therapist was like, I don't know how to teach. This was private therapy, uh, in New Mexico and they were like, I don't know how to teach her the small motor skills, but I can teach her how to make mac and cheese in the microwave.
Rebecca:Oh.
Amanda:And I was like, hi, not trying to be mean, but, you know, she might need to be able to hold a pencil at some point in time in her life.
Rebecca:Yeah?
Amanda:She's like, it still hurts. Um, but that was how she got out of OT in Las Cruces was they were like, well, I mean, she can't like hop. She can't skip. She can't jump. She can't hold a pencil, but she can make Mac and use a microwave. So what do you need us to do?
Rebecca:Yeah, I, uh A lot of students don't qualify for O. T. in academic settings. So I kind of do a lot of the pencil stuff myself. Like, I'm like, hey, let's try all these writing tools. Which 1 do you feel like most using? Um, and so my, I have kids who have no O. T. who don't even have. diagnosed things who are, you know, using thick pencils with the sides that are, you know, more triangular. I have kids using those giant thick pencils. Um, I have other kids using pens, like, I have other kids using, like, a pencil that I injected into a marker, like, like the lead is, like, injected into the side of a marker, like, whatever works, man.
Amanda:I love it. Hers has always been like her neurologist and her developmental pediatricians. Like, I need you to do this. And the therapist is like, I don't know if I can do this. And I'm like, I don't know if you've looked at the hierarchy lately, but therapist is down here. Neurologist is up here and then they're getting her out of therapies and her neurologist is calling the insurance up going. Why is my patient not in therapies? Um, they're also my favorite to bring to IEPs because I, okay. Love. I've got a working relationship for a few of them in their area. And when I'm advocating for other people, I'm bringing their neurologist in and I've decided school admins just don't know how to deal with neurologist because neurologist do not have a bedside manner.
Rebecca:Yeah.
Amanda:Um, I don't know if you've ever been in an IEP meeting with the neurologist or the developmental pediatricians.
Rebecca:Yes. Um. I have,
Amanda:They're fun, aren't they?
Rebecca:yes. Yes, they are
Amanda:Um, well, we're getting up on the 50 minute mark, and I want to make sure we get where people can find you online. And maybe here in a few months, if you're okay with it, I might reach out and have you come on and talk about your books and everything again.
Rebecca:good.
Amanda:Where can people find you online?
Rebecca:Um, my Instagrams are stitches, stanzas, like knitting with stanzas, like the poetry. And then I have another Instagram, which is my personal, where I go on tangents about the Department of Ed, which is RE 0 2 2 0. And then I have my Facebook page, which is Becca Engle, where I also go on tangents about our current state of education and share random things about my life.
Amanda:Uh, the current state of education is interesting to be, put it politely. Um, we may have to have you on just to talk about the current state of education, too.
Rebecca:Sure.
Amanda:Especially if these IEPs, because we definitely need IEPs and 504s in school, and I don't know why anyone would want to try and get rid of them.
Rebecca:Yup.
Amanda:Alright, well, we will, um, let you go. Have fun. Thanks for coming on, Rebecca.
Rebecca:Yeah, thank you for having me.
Amanda:And all that description's gonna be in the des uh, all that information's gonna be in the description below. I am having the worst ADHD day currently.
Rebecca:Oh, good. Thank you.
Amanda:Thank you. Leta, can you say thank you for coming on?
Leta:Why do you have a chubby pittie?
Amanda:She's put all on her pittie today. All right. Thanks.
Leta:Hey well, thank you for watching the podcast and please subscribe and also look at that adorable pittie. Don't you want to subscribe for it and also please leave a like and don't forget if you subscribe to our stuff you won't miss any of our new podcast stuffies and also you can see that adorable pittie. Don't you like it?
