From Stutters to Strengths: A Conversation on Finding Your Voice (with Jason Heffler)

Join Leta, Amanda, and guest Jason Heffler on the Leta’s Tap Styles this Friends’ Friday. Jason joins us to discuss his children’s book, Tongue Tied. Tongue Tied is the story of Cadence, a chameleon who is shy and is often bullied for her speech impediment. Jason based Cadence’s story on his experiences with stuttering and bullying.

Through personal stories, we explore the effects of bullying, and why speech impediments don’t need to be “fixed”, but need to be understood and accepted.

Visit Jason's website to connect and to purchase a copy of Tongue Tied for yourself https://tonguetied.unicornplatform.page/

Want to come on the show to talk about tap dancing, dance, autism, or neurodivergency? Check out our profile on PodMatch! You can also see what previous guests have to say about being on the show. https://www.podmatch.com/member/letastapstylesguest

Transcript

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I think one of the biggest takeaways here is that representation matters. Like if your child has speech issues and they see a character like the one in my book who goes through the same stuff, but then still achieves great things, that's everything. This is Leta and this is me and my mommy's my mommy, and there's me and I'm just talking about this stuff. And there's me tap dancing because this is the tap Dancing Autism podcast and there's bunch animals and I'll be trying to in my hair and there's bunch saying, and. Dancing. Oh, also, they're my boots. My boots are amazing. Also, dance, me trying not to have a panic attack. Also, this is a podcast that we autism and kept dancing and blah, blah, blah. I'm A DHD. This thing also. This your adorable puppy. That's my mommy. I am Leta this Leta's Tap Styles that is a human being And that is the 13 year old's way of introducing a podcast. Jason, we're so excited to have you on the show. I am terrible at making introductions of our guest. I sound like a robot when I do it. Do you mind introducing yourself to our audience? No problem. Yeah. First off, thanks for having me. I appreciate you guys. Um, my name's Jason Heffler. I. Uh, and I wrote a children's book, um, that was based off of my own experiences growing up with a stutter. Um, so yeah, I, I wrote the book to help kids, um, with speech issues and their parents, um, learn competence and self assurance and all, all other kinds of values. I am so excited to have you on. I've got the book. It's right here. Uh, took forever to get it, but um, lead's got the crazy autistic 13-year-old questions about the book. Hopefully you're okay with that. Hit me. Let's go. What do you mean crazy? Wait, what? What? I I mean that with the most loving way possible. It's okay. I, I, I, I call my wife crazy all the time, but it's a compliment. Oh yeah. You had some questions about the book, did you not? Oh, now she's gonna be shy. Hit me. Come on. What? Come I'm all ears. Oh, what is the quickest? A chameleon. Fle. Even though the chameleon tries to eat the cricket. Why is the Cricket and the chameleon friends, even though the cricket or the chameleon tried to eat the cricket. Yeah, I mean, that's a good question and probably one of the most important parts of the book, um, is that people have their differences, but that doesn't mean they can't be friends and they can't support each other. Did that answer your question? You know, if like. it's all about empathy. I, I, she does have her own way of looking at the world like everyone else does. Um, I absolutely love book. I love everything about the book. Um, I think sometimes I have a hard time dealing with parents. I, when we had the pre-interview, I told you Lita has. Her own dance studio for autistic kids. And lot of the parents coming in are coming in from the typically able, the neurotypical community. And I can't necessarily relate to them 'cause I'm coming in from the autistic community going, yeah, this is just normal people, but. The book is, makes it so much easier to explain things. Like there's a lot of things which Lita was in speech therapy for a long time, so we're, her dad and I, there were things, her speech therapist was like, we need to work on this. And I'm like, that is not important. I do not need that work done. Um, do you. Having had speech impediments yourself, are there things that you're like, these are important things to work on? Like with Lita, she was non-receptive, non inex expressive. She didn't understand the English or language, and I'm like, let's work on that. And then they're like, but we need to change her tone of voice. And I'm like, Hmm, no. It is tough. Yeah. It's, it's, I, I wish it were as simple as just changing your voice or quote unquote calming down when you talk. But it's not, it's not. Um. You know, in reality, stuttering and a lot of other speech issues, they are neurological con conditions. Um, not a lot of people know that. A lot of people assume that it's just like a vocal corded abnormality, but it's not. It starts from the brain. Um, and it starts from an early age. So, yeah, I mean, I did speech therapy for most of my adolescents. Um, I. I would say there were a couple of things that worked, you know, that kind of helped me, um, embrace it a bit more. Um, nothing really ever helped the stutter itself. Um, it never went away, but, you know, the, that, that's the core of my book's messaging is that. Most parents, they, they seek a, a cure, a quote unquote cure. Um, but that's really wrong. Um, because self-esteem for a child who stutters is not built by fixing their speech. It's by other PE people value valuing what we have to say. Um, so instead of chasing that cure, that cure, um, the book teaches you that you can embrace your voice as it is. And it can carry you through the same, a life with the same possibilities as everyone else. Oh yeah. And no, with Lita, when we were going to the speech therapist, because she didn't have receptive, which means she didn't understand the English language. I'm like, that seems like something we need to work on. Because that's like not understanding language is a problem, but Yeah. UB hard. no, we need to. Fix her tone of voice. And I'm like, but she doesn't understand what the color red means. Yeah, that's like putting the the cart before the horse. And um, even once it got to it, she still couldn't do her RSS and stuff. And they're like, well, we need to make her not sound like she has such a high pitched voice. And I'm like, is this a necessity in life? Did I miss a memo somewhere? That's ridiculous. So like the, that so sounds like, like they're trying to mask the issue instead of fixing it or making her feel more comfortable wi, wi with it. So yeah, that's not the best move. And that's what I love about the book is I can hand this to new parents who are just getting the diagnosis and go here, teach confidence. Don't teach masking. Exactly. Yeah. It's a, and look, confidence comes later in life for, for most of us. Like I tell kids all the time, what you have that. It will give you thicker skin in life than others who don't have it. So if you know, if, if you can just be patient, if you can, just try to realize that that strength in you, like you'll be okay. Definitely. you, uh, just gonna be silent over there today? It's technically not silence. So she, she's she's got you there. she has some trauma surrounding speech and language pathology therapy, which you shouldn't be 13, going, I have trauma about a therapy. Yeah. Um, well, I think a lot of people do. Um, it's hard, especially when the other, you know, when the therapist. A lot of them don't even, they don't deal with it themselves. So a lot of their, their, their, you know, points are very subjective. Like, it's, it's hard to relate to them. I remember one of my speech therapists,'cause I talk really, really fast. A lot of times I have to remind myself to slow down so people might understand me, When does but not when Hmm. you.' cause I don't care. I'll talk really fast when I it doesn't know people dad either. Like I, I'm I'm married. Yes. But the thing she would have my parents do is in public put a hand on my head to try and put pressure on my head to make me slow down my speech, Hmm. then just made all the other kids around me notice something was going on. Interesting. I mean, we all, we all show those things in different ways. Um, you know, that doesn't make any single approach wrong, It, it didn't, but it got really annoying.'cause the other kids in class, you know, I'm like five and the other kids would come, put their hands on my head.'cause Well, that's what you do with Amanda. And the teachers would be like, well, I mean. What were you expecting to them to do? And as a huh? I was like, not touch me. Yeah, they don't know. Like a lot of this stems from being an ignorant child and, and it's, you know, it's innocent. Um, at least until like middle school and high school. When it becomes legit bullying, that's when it gets hard. I know even some of the bullying lead up faced in dance studios,'cause we pulled her outta school. Like the moment I had problems in school, I'm like, I am done with this. I am homeschooling the child. Good for you. But she, you know, is a dancer. She was in her dance studios and a lot of the stuff the kids were repeating, even middle schoolers and high schoolers, was coming from the adults. And it was things like LE's voice is high pitched, so the, she must be, uh, mentally delayed. Yeah, that's, that's, uh, rough. I, it's, it's not, I feel like it's not, they didn't come from, from a place of being like mal malicious or anything, but, but just not the right way to convey that information. And it's not fair to you wanna say something? Okay. if I was mentally delayed, then why were they asking me why I was getting a boyfriend at night? They thought I was freaking 16, a freaking nine. How am I mentally delayed? If you picked a 9-year-old with the birth certificate on this certificate you got when you got the 9-year-old in your class, oh, hey, this child is dying. And then turn around and ask the 9-year-old why she doesn't have a boyfriend yet. How am I mentally delayed? Just like they're It doesn't compute it. Yeah, it doesn't compute. They're the ones who are mentally delayed. The prob I, I will kind of stand up for the teachers. you were nine. I was nine. What? 9-year-old had, boyfriend. I was nine also. Plus, my dad keeps threatening to kill every single boy. I think the teachers were just trying to understand it for sure. part of the issue she had with dance is she is an amazing dancer, so they had my 9-year-old up with the middle schoolers and high schoolers. So she's up with the kids going to homecoming and prom. Of course, they're just. Well, she's acting immature because she's autistic, not 'cause she's nine. And you can't extrapolate high school problems like having boyfriends and going to prom to a person who's much younger. I mean, that just seems foolish. No. No, it, it is, and I think I will give the teachers, because they're dance teachers, they're not trained on neurodiversity, and they're like, well, she's autistic. She's supposed to be delayed. I. She's acting like a 9-year-old. That must be the delay. And I'm like, or she just has auto processory issues. She has language issues. It, it's a lot more than y'all think it is. Yeah, I, I dealt with the same stuff my entire life. I would. I'm physically delayed, like my speech is delayed. So teachers and therapists would constantly say, you know, something is wrong here. Um, but in reality it's just a block. Like it just didn't, it, it didn't affect the way I communicated. It just, uh, you know, it just stumbled every now and then. I think that's one of the things that, um, a lot of the parents in the studio from outside the neurodiverse world don't understand that the speech delays don't necessarily mean that there is a delay with the intellect. It does just means that there's a delay under understanding how to utilize speech. Yes. Yep, exactly. that's what I look, I'm like, I am telling all the parents to go buy this for themselves. And they're like, uh, you know it's a kid book. And I'm like, yeah, 'cause you guys need to read it. Thank you for that. Nice. Um, I'm, Yeah, I mean there's will get, the reason why I, I mean I, I, I mean, yeah, the kids for sure, but the parents as well, like I think one of the biggest. Takeaways here is that representation matters. Like if your child has speech issues and they see a character like the one in my book who goes through the same stuff, but then still achieves great things, that's everything. Uh, and I know with a lot of these. Parents, the only they're thinking of is like Temple Gradin as far as autistic, and they're only thinking there's only one type of greatness. And it's like, but not every autistic person is Temple Gradin. Yeah, I mean, yeah, the, the, there's many forms of greatness. Like I said, like for example, my, one of my cousins is severely autistic. He's one of the most brilliant guys you'll ever meet. He's like a savant. It's, it's amazing. And like people like him, um, are looked at differently, you know, to a severe degree. But they are in a lot of ways, are smarter and happier than a lot of us. Oh yeah. And on speech, I know I've had a few parents go, well, my child ha stutters, they'll never be an actor. And James Earl Jones. For a Darth Vader. Yep. Yeah. you know I'm old enough. It was reading Rainbows, bringing the rain to Kaki plane. Yes. I'm old enough to remember that as well. Reading Rainbow. Yeah. Darth Vader stutters. Um. Emily Blunt, who's one of the most famous actresses in the world, um, had a stutter and she's, she's gotten, she's outgrown it, but it comes back every now and then. So the most, I, people don't know this, but 1% of the stutters, it's actually a lot of people. I think the only time I know James Earl Jones did not stutter is when he was on, if he was off, you could tell he was a stutterer. Yep. It's amazing that that kind of, well, I mean, it's the same thing with with me actually. So I'm in the music industry and I've been DJing for a while now, and when I would go on stage and spin and I would speak into the microphone, the stutter would disappear, was crazy. Um, that's. I don't wanna put words into anything, but I've known so many people who've had that. But that doesn't mean that's a right way, correct. Like you No. as much yourself when you're not DJing. Does that Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's. It's kind of like, um, it's like a mirage, like you're kind of in this flow state, in this rare state of mind where you're not constantly thinking about it. And then maybe that's why it comes out more smooth. Um, but obviously you, you, you, you can't be in that flow state all the time. It's, it's only fleeting. She is trying to get her puppy dog on the couch over. There is what's going on. I noticed it's all good. He like, but it's right about time for my pill treat so that I'll calm down. He has severe anxiety disorder, What's his name? Jack Vis. Jack Elvis. Yeah. That's cute. I love dogs with, uh, with people names. uh. He the whole. A story is he kind of chose our family. Um, he was your rescue. the covid puppies by people who probably should not have adopted puppies, uh, during Covid. the family that had him lived in our neighborhood, they'd never had a dog before. So they adopted a staffy pity puppy mix. Oh, cute. Uh, they are not easy puppies. Just wild like. They have intense energy and they need a lot of attention and emotional support as puppies. And now he's up on the sofa and, um, they had three kids under the age of five, which is probably not the time to get a puppy anyways, No, no, it's a lot of responsibility. we didn't know them, but he kept running away to our house. It's cute though. yeah, they had named him Jack, but he wound up spending an entire Thanksgiving weekend with us because they went out of town. Their dog sitter didn't bother to look for him for the four days, don't name the dog. And dad kept saying, dog instead of dog. kept saying, dog of dog. the dog. I'm surprised. named the dog Elvis? Yes. But yeah, he, he's, uh, attached to her at the hip if he can't tell. I can tell it is adorable. I love dogs. We're thinking about buying one, but we're doing baby first, and then dog. We did dogs first and then baby, and that was interesting. I, um, if you can do the baby first, I suggest the baby first. That's my plan for sure. But we were, um, she was she's an only child. She was pregnancy 13. We were pretty sure we were not having a child, so we went ahead and got the dogs. Yeah, I've heard that that's a popular approach. I mean, they have, they have to have some kind of like companion, you know? The she when she was born, we had an Anatolian Shepherd. He was like, yep, you are my sheep and you are my lamb, and you are not allowed to walk and you are not. And Oh my God. her. Not gentle if anyone came near her. Oh my god. I kind of like that though. A, a protective dog. Oh yeah. Um, jazz. I watched her take somebody's fingernail off. We had a lab pity mix that was also a little protective of her too. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah. Um, but they had been both in the house before she came home, so they felt differently about her than like he feels about her 'cause she was, you know, 10 when he, he came into her life. Um, I did wanna talk a little bit about the bullying, ' cause I know LTAs gotten bullied. I've gotten bullied for my speech, which is, you know, not the same as stuttering, but. One of the questions these parents keep asking me, and I'm like, I didn't know that was a question. I thought the answer was yes. Did the bullying affect you as a child? Oh yeah. Yeah, it was ruthless. I mean, it was bad. Um, definitely affected me. Definitely got to my head. Um, I say this a lot. I luckily had an amazing support system. Parents were amazing. They supported me through it all. I had a, I had have a big brother who would like, beat up bullies, and then I, I have a twin sister who would. Lash out at any like G girl at school, who would anything? So I was lucky to have that. Um, and they def, I leaned on them a lot, but, uh, it accumulated over time and it definitely made, like, made me kind of a shell of myself, especially going into like middle school. Um. High school was not as bad as the kids are a little older, and, and I can, you know, I'm a bit more mature and I can like, defend my self. Um, but yeah, it, it, the bullying is awful and it doesn't really ever stop. The other question I'm getting by parents and I'm like. Once more. I thought the answer to that was yes. Did you ever have a bad therapist and did that affect you having a bad therapist? I never had a therapist that really like offended me. No. Um, I just, I had a few that I thought were incompetent that just didn't, weren't really, weren't really helping me, but I never had one that was like egregiously bad. No. The ones that were like. that you thought were incompetent. Leis had a couple of those. She threw up on a couple of those and I was like, I'm sorry as mom, I'm going to agree with her throwing up on you. Yeah, Um, percent. because of her autism speech and language pathology also tried to work on her, uh, texture issues with food, and she does not like pizza. Still does not like pizza. And her Wow. her to eat pizza. Like, are you talking about holding her mouth open and trying to, that is so messed up. and she threw up on them a few times and I'm like, and your point, they're like, well, you need to talk to her about it. I'm like, um, no. You tried to shove food in her mouth that she said she doesn't like. And I'm like, I think you're a little incompetent. And they're like, well, what would you know? You only have a PhD in physics. And I'm like, you're right. I only have a PhD in physics. Your master's degree is so much more impressive than my PhD. I also have a PhD in common sense, so yeah, that's just insane. I don't know if they give out PhDs in comments since to physicists, but. They should. Everyone's an expert n nowadays, right? But no one has, or not a lot of people have pure common sense. Uh, common sense seems to be lacking currently in today's society. Yes, it, yes, it is a hundred percent. Is he chewing on top? He has gotten a piece of cardboard and he is chewing it on her lap. Um, and now she's distracted. I would be too, if I had a pop here. The puppies have been a godsend to her'cause she has the other ones upstairs. She has things that love her unconditionally. My dogs were like my best friends growing up when I didn't have any friends. I had my pups at home. Yeah, that's been a thing with her. Um, off camera. You're, do you need me to fix that camera? Real? You're on camera. Um, wanna ask 'cause it, I'm guessing that's possibly why, why did you choose animals as the subjects for the book? Um, I know that animals, I, I, I researched a lot, um, into what appeals to kids. Um, whimsical animals were the, were like the top, um, approach. Um, it's colorful, you know, it keeps their attention and who, who doesn't love cute animals? You know, the appeal is broad. um, I know a lot of the kids with NeuroD. Urgency. Uh, there are some push for some and research to see about their connection to animals.'cause they Really? to love animals. Wow, I didn't know that. Yeah, it, I'm talking to a bunch of the neurologists who are like, yeah, we all loved animals as kids. And I'm like, yeah, and you guys are all not typical. Let me remind you of that. Yeah. Yeah. They're smarter than all of us. They're like, yeah, and parents seem to think we're neurotypical. I'm like, how did you convince those parents that you are neurotypical? I'm just saying your bedside manner just screams autism. That's great. Yeah. I feel like animals is something everybody can, can relate to, you know what I mean? Uh, I know that the, like the, I picked a chameleon to represent me because, you know, they, they, they can stumble over their tongue. Um, and they, they camouflage into things to avoid confrontation. That was going to be my next question. Um, I know Lita has often camouflaged herself. Corners are her favorite part of dance studios.'cause you can hide in the corner. Hmm. Yeah, it's, it's something I think, and it's not just with people with speech problems, you know, confidence is a currency that not a lot of us have, and. We hide. It's just, it's a bummer. But really, like, the way, what really made me kind of come out of hiding, um, as an adult was, uh, when I would acknowledge what I have, if I would be in a job interview or if I was like me, if I met a new person who I thought could be a friend, I would just off the bat say, Hey, like I have a stutter. It doesn't affect the way I communicate. If, if, if anything, it makes me a better friend. I hope that, I hope that's okay and nine times outta 10, the person on the other end would say like, of course it's fine. Like, I respect that. Thank you for, for your honesty. So like, once I started to acknowledge it and r realized that most people have empathy, it really made me speak more and speak more confidently. Are there a lot of, um, accommodations? people need when they stutter. No, I mean that, it's, so, it's, it's hard for me to say because my stutter is not severe. Um, a severe stutter can't get a word act like, you know, it takes them minutes to say a short sentence, so. I am not, I can't quite answer an accommodation style question, but, but me, I didn't need any special accommodations. No. I think when we're talking with Lita and some of the accommodations she needs in dance studios, a lot of them don't sound like accommodations if you're in the differently abled community. Like what's an example? with her autism, she hates people looking people in the eyes. Like it will drive her bonkers. And if she's looking you in the eyes, she is not listening to you. Huh. Wow. You would think not having to look someone in the eyes is not the biggest accommodation out there. Yeah, that's tough. And that's, I've now started asking people going, so this is gonna sound crazy. What things should just be common sense or just be common courtesy or she hates. People touching her and dance studio teachers are like, but she has to gimme a hug at the end of each class. And I'm like, or let's not. And say we did. Yeah, that's such an easy accommodation. It shouldn't be a problem at all. Um, and those were some of the harder ones. And they're like, well, we'll just push her past this limitation. And I'm like, that's not really Not the way to do it. to make on where that limitation goes. Yeah. If there was any accommodation for a stutter that I would recommend, it's that people should refrain, hold off, like don't finish their sentences. Um, you know, exercise patience and let them finish their sentences because it's the, it's the, it is the effort that matters, not the, not the, the substance. You know what I mean? Yeah, and that was, I think I phrased it very bad, but it was like the stupid accommodations that you shouldn't have to ask people for. It should just be Yes. sense. They should be common sense. Exactly. Something like that should, it should be obvious. And like another one is don't tell us to relax or to calm down. We are calm. We just, this is how our speeches like it, it's not a matter of, um, you know, our, our. Demeanor or, or our, our energy levels. It's, it's just, that's how it always is. That, I mean, that was where I was getting with with that question. Is what stupid things should not be an accommodation that people should just nicely do.'cause it's one of my friends is like, do not push my wheelchair across a crosswalk. That shouldn't be an accommodation I'm asking for, but do not come up and push it across for me. Yeah, it should be, it should be obvious. Yeah. Just don't finish our s um, just, you know, try to be patient. That's really all, uh, like, I, I hate the word normalized because that's, that, that's been beaten into oblivion. By every therapist and everyone on TikTok, but nor normalizing it is important. Like all we wanna do is feel normal, and I'm sure that goes for autistic people as well, although they might not vocalize it. I, I'm talking to some of the Gen Zers and she's Gen Alpha, but uh, I'm gonna lump some of those Gen Alpha kids in it and they're like, yeah, we don't like normal. We've decided your normal is crazy. Yes. Yeah, the pendulum is starting to swing the other away. It's amazing actually. I, I'm like, go ahead, Lita. Do people try to kidnap your friend on a regular basis? Kidnapping. The They're being nice. out of It does. It does kind of sound like kidnapping, but it doesn't. are you. That's the definition of kidnapping and can't run. Do they like come up and push her across the crosswalk and she's like, I didn't ask you for the help. her. Is it, is it from a place of them being wanting to be friends or, or is it Okay? Okay. It's normally strangers thinking they're doing their good deed for the day. Oh, okay. Okay. It's hard to, to, it's hard to like knock that, but at the same time, it's like maybe you should approach it a little more gracefully. She tends to just be like afterwards, seriously, I, to us, her French, she will go off about it. Sure. But to whoever it is, she's kinda like, thank you. And then she's two her friends going, seriously, I'm not a baby. I can get my own wheelchair across the crosswalk. Yeah, I mean, it's you, you gotta speak up. It's important o otherwise it'll just keep, keep happening. That's a lo I absolutely love the book because there's not a lot of stuttering books out there. Um, there's not, there's, how do I wanna put this? I. There's not a lot to look up to.'cause when you're saying even James Earl Jones, people are going, oh, but he was Darth Vader, so he stopped stuttering and they're not seeing what was going on behind the scenes. Yeah, he's the, uh, he's the, the, the outlier or the, except. Um, everyone else, they struggle every day. Um, and there's, there's a lot of books that, that are more clinical. Um, see here in the background, there's a lot of books that are more clinical and they're not really tailored toward kids. He has decided to act fully like a puppy over here. is not the best podcast host. He'd be going upstairs if he's not careful. He can stand. No. Oh. Uh, he is a door. He gets away with bloody murder and it does not help that he has spoiled rotten at his vet's office. How He knows he's adorable. Nope. No, no, no, no, no. Nope, Lida, turn off the microphone for right now. What's that? Your mic is on. And every time he goes to his vet's office, he gets told he needs to go on a diet as they're giving him treats. And I'm like, you're kind of Like mixed signals here, guys. counterproductive. Yeah. But he knows he is cute, so he knows he can game the system. Oh, yes. Um, but yeah, the representation in here and the fact that, you know, Candace drop. I mean, I absolutely love the artwork too. The artwork is amazing, but you. the fact that she actually learned to be okay with her stutter, I think it works for not just kids with a stutter. I think it works for the autistic kids. I think it works for the A DHD kids. I think it works with the kids with dyslexia and dysgraphia. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So I actually don't even, the word stutter is not even in the book. I, I didn't wanna pigeonhole it to just stutters because the message, um. Can resonate with every kind of condition you just listed. Um, like at the end of the day, like we all people with speech issues, they have like this confident voice that's like trapped in their head. Uh, and if you find it, like, if you can just find that confidence and find that, like it's just all uphill from there. And she, the cadence in the book. It, you know, it takes her, you have to kind of bulldoze your boundaries and get out there and interact and encounter people that you might be scared of. But once you do, it's just bam, all the, the confidence just comes very quickly, you know? I mean, the whole time I was reading it and rereading it and I know it's like a little book and I'm 43, so I should be able to read it multiple times. But um, it's an amazing book. I cannot emphasize that enough. It just, I even, do not read out loud. I have a lot of the trauma from having to read out loud in school systems and with the dyslexia, dys, slight dyslexia and slight dysgraphia, it is nowhere near as bad as lead as dyslexia and dysgraphia trying to read aloud never has gone well for me, Yeah. Those, those experiences seem so innocuous and so normal for everyone else. But for people like you and I, there are these super stressful tightrope walks and like if they don't go ro right over and over and over and over and over again, it can really affect us Well, and Lita is so dyslexic. so she's even reading to herself. And I herself. dance studio teachers, the amount of reading you have to. Reading and writing you have to do in dance is outrageously shocking. Really, I, I didn't, I wouldn't think that. They like a lot of the ballet studios, you have written tests to go up to your next level ballet. There's a lot of flashcards being done and teachers going, well, you should be able to read. These are people who've never, not like the Not like the teachers at public schools had special education. teachers definitely have not. Yeah. I mean that I could totally foresee, but I didn't know that, that there was like a fair amount of reading and writing in that world. Yeah. she's had teachers who don't, they think dyslexia. Is just like the word slightly floating on the page. She has such severe dyslexia. It even Dys. with how she learns how to pure wet and how she learns how to Wow. turns and jumps. And the teachers are like, well, I want her to read in I want She has always stumbled on reading in class because she can't read. And they're like, well, just concentrate harder and it won't harder, and it won't be so far. Yeah. Again, that that's just like such a reductive approach and it's a bummer. But I even broke down and because she Because I read the book to her a couple times and times, and I didn't like this sounds crazy, but usually I feel judged I feel judged even when like is in the room. I gonna judge reading your book. I know. No, it's not. I'm the same way. I sometimes I even stutter when I'm reading. Like even though I'm not speaking like the words as I'm reading, I still block on them. And that's like, there's a self, there's a sense of shame in that and embarrassment. So I get it a hundred percent. I did not feel that way while reading your book. Really, Really, I felt really, I felt like it was okay for me to not be able to say words and over the words. Thank you so much. That means so much to me.'cause that's the goal here. You know? I really appreciate that. It, like I said, I'm in Like I said, I'm in my forties and I was like, had been around when I was a child. child, me too. I, yeah, I mean, I essentially wrote the book that I needed as a kid, Um, but but, um, is just, I dunno what he's doing now. I, I can't hear him. It's all good. he is really quiet 90% of the time and then he thinks he's part husky. And then it's like Howling at the moon. But um, he definitely has the poor puppy 'cause he Poor much. when they weren't home and he'd just get outta the house and go wandering. He's got scars from being out on the streets and it's like, yeah, I get where your anxiety comes from puppy. Yeah. Rescues are, are amazing If you know, if they become domesticated. Oh yeah. And Have been rescue. been rescue. So good for you guys. Don't easy rescue. We always do the hard cases. Wow. rescue case we've Rescue case. We've done good for you guys though. Respect But not beagle. She's like, what about my Beagle lab mix Upstairs? She is a, she is a pain in the butt is what she is. but you'll murder humans for me. tough from what I've heard. Someone took a beagle and a lab and mixed them together and it Together and it was working Hunting wine? No. never have been in the same mix. The same? Nope. We had, um, when I was a kid, we had two poodles. They were named Bow and arrow and p poodles are like extreme. They're, they're actually hunters, believe it or not. Um, and they're not very like, uh. Like ours weren't very cuddly. They would kind of like cringe if you, if you tried to hug them. Steve Beagle door is, oh, you wanna do that one? Will kill moose. She tried to A moose. Okay. We, not seen that happen, but No, no way. when she the moose and went, I'm gonna go eat the moose. I I believe that story was a. before she could find the moose. moose our. I'm not a hundred percent. So we left her, uh, she goes back and forth to LA for her tap stuff all the time. Her dad was deployed last year a lot or the whole year. So we had to keep leaving our dogs at the kennel If and the kennel. would very much go after the moose. Guy who walks her at the kennel, uh, called up and went. So fun news. We have moose in the west side of Colorado Springs Villa, and I saw the news. let her kill I did let her kill it though. Moose are gigantic, so if your dog is squaring up with a a moose, that's impressive. She, she's dumb enough, she's a little 45 pound dog who is dumb enough to go, I can square up against you. She would also do that if, if she found a polar bear, Uh, all she got was a All she got was a hunting both the Beagle Mix together. It, it's and together. well, helpful. I would feel protected at all times. Um, Um, what did you think what did. us since you've been so busy telling with the Jack Elvis? That was a chameleon. That was a chameleon and a cricket, they were friends. And the chameleon, they need the cricket. The fact that she remembers anything about it is an endorsement from her. Jason. I'll take the compliment. Yeah. You know it. I didn't actually realize like crickets are probably snacks for chameleon, so I actually never put that together, that it's kind of like a miracle that. Cricket stays alive. I, I think that's one of the things I think that's one of, about the book is it is a miracle. The cricket stays alive and it is the thing that she should have eaten that's giving her the confidence. yeah. You know, I'm actually kicking myself. It, that was a, a happy fail, like that worked out very well. I don't know that it was a fail. It worked out extremely great for the story. but when the I call them happy fails, like things that you just, that were not supposed to happen, but they worked out in my favor. That's great. Good call. But when the chameleon eat other crickets while they're hanging out, so when the cricket see its friends or family members get eaten by its friend and just be totally fine with it and probably help murder its family or friends. So that is her autistic mind at work over there. it's a fair, Hey, it's fair that, that's a fair question. Not this particular cricket or I'm, I, I, I, this particular chameleon, this particular chameleon is not a vegetarian. I actually, I actually, when I was working at we had a problem with our had cha So it must be so it must be related actually. Yeah. Let's say the, let's say that the chameleon is a vegetarian and only eats plants. She, it's gonna die quickly. Quickly, hopefully not this realm it or in this story? It doesn't matter. Okay. She spends a little too much time. too. It's been a little too much time. What. Nitpicking animal stuff because one of the things in dance was all the teachers would tell you stuff that was told. that a gorilla was a monkey. That is a nitpicking. That's just, I'm not stupid. You are stupid. How did you make it past? I don't know, being made also? To be fair, it is all, it's all facts. She's speaking facts. I. Also, how could, uh, I dunno, a climb trees and swing through branches if its fingers weren't strong and if it didn't have strong finger muscles, because I'm pretty sure. orangutan can have bad finger muscles and have very loose finger muscles if it needs to climb trees to live. Well, you gotta have imagination, right? Her dance teachers were sitting there telling her she needed to have loose fingers like orangutans and not tight muscular fingers. they were telling me I needed to not have loose fingers like orangutan. That's Yes. And she would then start thinking, you're so stupid. I'm not listening to anything else you're saying, which is kind Which kind of for autistic kids. for autistic kids. Interesting. Yeah, I understand that. Where that's coming from. But yeah, in reality they were trying to figure out some kind of, um, reference to make it easier to understand. Which a lot of autistic kids don't. They need it like cold, hard facts. They Yeah. If you're trying You're trying to use other references use, make that work, they're make work. It needs to be Facts. I don't under, they don't under, they don't understand. They don't understand a lot of literature uses of uses of things. Yeah. get what you meant. Get what it meant. But I'm the same way actually. And I think a lot of stutters are, we don't just give it to us straight. Like most people, when we talk to them, they feel like they can't acknowledge it or talk about it, then they have to like dance around it. And then it be, it creates this like awkward error ar around it all, but we wanna talk about it. It, it, it, it helps. Disolve, like the shame that we feel when we open our mouths. You know what I mean? She's also had a lot of, because most of hers has come from dance teachers who have gone, I love you so much Love you so much that I'm not Is that why Yeah, that's, I mean, well, what was that? She's like, is that why they baby talk me? No, that was 'cause they thought that's what your mental capability was why can't I touch people again? I because violence is bad. What do you mean violence is bad? Wasn't handshake. Thank you very much. I made The world is not ready for the gen alpha. The kids that grew up Up COVID are unique. are unique. Oh yeah, I can imagine. I. Compounding what they already have with the isolation. I, it, I can't even imagine She was that was that. the I be, I think it's, I, I think it's, I'm trying to get, on it 'cause I don't have time to write I don't, But that Gen but that didn't either. or were like just getting services or even Lita, there was a major disruption in services and she was doing speech therapy with full N95 masks over her therapist's face. How it's insane. I mean, how can you, you, part of it is you need to see the mouth speaking and all the patterns and it, I mean, that's obviously one of many, many nuances that are supposed to help speech, so I can't even imagine. And it, it cuts off your air too. Oh yeah. And on Yeah. that was after we got back into the clinic after eight months out of the clinic. Let me say, I have so much respect for you and other parents who had to navigate that. You never assume or think that you would have to do something like that, but you thought on your feet and you rode with them the whole time, and I just can't even imagine how tough that was. I just don't think the I just don't. these kids.'cause they had so much change for that three years. Like when Lita went into CO or into all the stuff, All stuff. She still play. Got out of a lot of the playgrounds a lot of playgrounds near us. Wow. Um, That's crazy. And You know, there were like Chuck E. there were like do beforehand, couldn't do beforehand out, she was too old for it. for it. Um, and you have these kids kind of. with all of the adults talking about death around them. They are like Gen Xers on steroids. Steroids. Wow. Yeah, I didn't think about that either.'cause when you're at home, you are witnessing conversations that with from your parents that you never would have otherwise if you were at school. So I'm sure they internalize a lot of it and then talk about it in places they're probably not supposed to. Uh, and they do know. what you gonna gimme a reason to not do violence or at some point, or no. Yeah, your entire generation needs to learn not to do violence. Well, they also were watching like Black Lives Matter and the protest on television and you know, the National Guard cleaning out Lafayette Square. I mean, these kids grew up different. to not do Yeah. You literally just list. Certain points in time where they decided violence was Let, let's get back to this.'cause we told Jason we would only keep him an hour. I have so many more questions for you. We may have to reach out to you in a few months and go, can we bring it back on the program? I would love to. Um, Um, where can people find your online? Um, well, you can find the book on, on Amazon. Just type in tongue tied book, and it'll be one of the first two results there. Um, and then you can find me on Instagram. Um, the handle is Hef, HEFF. Underscore that, that We will have all that in we'll have, below. I know that if you also go I know that you also desk at Barnes and Nobles, barn uh, go ahead and order it for you so order. to make mistakes. Yes, yes. We are available in Barnes and Noble as well and a co couple other major, uh, book retailers. I am not sure my checking account appreciated me walking into Barnes and Nobles, but It dangerous. I used to spend so much money there as a teenager. it is dangerous and I've got their $40 a year membership, which means I, you know, it's discounted, so I should just use it to make sure I get my $40 worth right. Yeah, absolutely. That's the right. Is Is, is there anything else you wanna tell our audience before we let you go? No. No. I think, I think we, we hit, we hit, we hit it all. I think if I, if there was any parting thought, it would just be, you know, if you meet a stutter, listen to what they have to say. Don't finish their sentences. Just be patient. Treat them like anyone else.'cause all they want to do. Is get their thoughts out and connect with you. So just let them do that. Thank you so much for coming on the show this week. Thanks to our audience again for listening. All that information's gonna be in the description below. And as always, we have a short bio of all of our guests on the website. see everyone for tap two. again. Bye. Bye. Okay, well thank you for watching the PIT podcast and please subscribe and also look at the Adorable Don't Watch Subscribe for. And also please like, and if you'll, if you'll any of our new podcast and also you see the Adorable, don't You Like it?