Ep. 77 with Sara Schultz: Moms, Marketing, And The Power To Pivot

What if your brand could bend without breaking when life throws the unexpected at you? Kelly sits down with Sara Schultz to unpack how a surprise pregnancy, a pandemic birth, and a family health crisis in Detroit sparked a complete reimagining of business and motherhood—leading to a scalable, values-led model that actually buys back time.

We trace Sara’s evolution from solopreneur to agency owner managing multi–six-figure projects, and the moment a single sales call—where she let her baby cry to close a deal—made her rewrite the rules. That boundary breach became a compass. When 2024 demanded a hard pivot, she didn’t cling to growth for growth’s sake. She ended misfit contracts, protected her family, and built Brandshift Method: a group coaching program that teaches founders to craft a rock-solid foundation—voice, values, dreamy client clarity, offer design, and visual language—so every marketing move sits on bedrock instead of quicksand.

We get practical about the digital era, too. AI can boost output, but without strategy you’ll ship robotic content that confuses your audience. Sara explains why visuals are part of your message, how consistency creates trust, and how to set life-first boundaries in your contracts so clients know exactly how you work. The throughline is autonomy: more women owning their time and money, building businesses that love their lives back, and leading with authenticity that doesn’t crumble under pressure.

If you’ve felt pulled between ambition and presence—or you’re tired of hacks that don’t stick—this conversation offers a clear path forward. Build the foundation, honor your values, and scale in ways that feel good and last. If your brand can’t survive change, it wasn’t a brand. 

Resources/Books:

• Kaylee LaMoine - Video & Content Creator: Website & IG: @kayleelamoine
• Sara J Maas Books/Website

Connect with Sara:

•  IG: @heysaraschultz
• Website: Hey Sara Schultz

Subscribe, share with a mompreneur who needs this, and leave a review to help more women find their blueprint for a life-first business.

Contact the Host, Kelly Kirk:

• Email: info.ryh7@gmail.com

Get Connected/Follow:

• The Hue Drop Newsletter: Subscribe Here
• IG: @ryh_pod & @thekelly.tanke.kirk
• Facebook: Reclaiming Your Hue Facebook Page
• CAKES Affiliate Link: KELLYKIRK

Credits:

• Editor: Joseph Kirk
• Music: Kristofer Tanke

Thanks for listening & cheers to Reclaiming Your Hue!

Chapters

• 0:10 Welcome And How We Met Online
• 2:43 Social Media: Connection And Boundaries
• 7:31 Authenticity, Brand Voice, And Ease
• 9:55 Motherhood Versus Entrepreneurship First
• 14:47 Pregnancy Fears And Identity Shifts
• 20:07 Comparison Traps And Resilience
• 24:47 COVID Birth, Postpartum, And Pivoting
• 28:36 Early Team Building And Agency Seeds
• 33:08 Scaling, Daycare Decisions, And Integration
• 38:35 Boundaries With Clients And That Sales Call
• 44:50 2024: Move To Detroit And Ego Death
• 51:05 Shutting Down The Agency To Protect Family
• 56:09 Phoenix Moment: Creating Brandshift Method
• 1:01:05 Foundations Over Hacks: Strategy First
• 1:05:20 Group Coaching Model, Access, And Scale
• 1:10:20 Strong Foundations Weather Every Storm
• 1:14:40 AI, Messaging Clarity, And Misuse
• 1:19:15 Autonomy, Money, And Time For Women
• 1:22:45 Self Care, Routines, And Small Wins
• 1:26:32 Final Advice, Links, And Closing CTA

Transcript

Kelly: 0:10

Welcome everybody to Reclaiming Your Hue, where we are dedicated to empowering women to embrace and amplify their inherent brilliance. Our mission is to inspire mothers and entrepreneurs to unlock their full potential and radiate their true selves. I'm your host, Kelly Kirk, and each week my goal is to bring to you glorious guests as well as solo episodes. So let's dive in. Hi, Sarah. Hi. Thank you so much for having me. You're so welcome. This is fun. We haven't even started yet. I know, and we're already having a great time. We're gonna get into the meat and potatoes. Do you know? I just love when we have this experience of like, gosh, how is it that we haven't totally met just based off of mutual connections or the amount of time that we may have been connected on social media of all things? Just so I love social media, I really do. And this is what we had been talking about too. It's like we've been connected for a while now. And so before we dive into more stuff, would you like to share how it is that you and I are connected?

Sara: 1:22

Yeah, yeah. I I'm with you. I love social media, and I I specifically really enjoy Instagram because Instagram has actually brought me some of my favorite people in real life. Which is so cool. I have incredible colleagues, turned friends, turned business partners, turned besties that Instagram really helped make connections over. And I know that that's not everyone's story with social media. So I feel so grateful. Totally that's how I have found what could be a very and is a volatile, tumultuous place for some is like just this beautiful thing for me in my world. And I I'm lucky.

Kelly: 2:13

I would say it's like a catch 22, right? You know, and and I'll just speak on a on a personal note about this is like I understand the importance of social media very much, but I also do this like, but what's enough for for the amount of time that you're spending on it? And um, you know, for my husband and I being business partners together, like we view our social platforms as like the validation for our clients finding us either through website or referrals. Like the social, like Instagram and LinkedIn are our validation points.

Sara: 2:59

I like to call it gut check. Yes. I have a lot of clients who well, sorry, I never answered our first question. I just went into how great I thought Instagram was. That is really how we connected first was through Instagram, through mutual friends we both have in real life, mutual acquaintances, at least that we both have in real life. And then it was quick to um like see that oh wow, we are similar in how we approach business and um we dress the same, we're both in denim, we both have this like love of pink. I mean, I just want to live in this podcast studio, please. Thank you. Um so yeah, it was a quick yes when you reached out asking if I would be here today. So thank you so much for having me.

Kelly: 3:52

Well, I want to tell you something.

Sara: 3:53

Tell me.

Kelly: 3:54

You were on the short list initially to be on the podcast. Oh my god. And then it just took me because I didn't, I wasn't quite sure how to approach it. And then I remember, you know, to the listeners right now, one of the mutual people that we know is this fantastic, let me say it again, fantastic videographer slash photographer by the name of Kaylee Lemoyne. Drop her information into the show notes. Yes. Um, but I remember getting together with her earlier this summer, and she was like, Kell, I can connect you with Sarah. And I was like, no, it's fine. I'll do it. I just had to kind of like build up my confidence to be able to approach you and do that. Oh my god, it seems so silly. Like now I'm going, oh my God, Kelly, like look at Sarah. She's she's incredible. She no, not even that. Just like the approachability, like, you know, I think that this is something interesting that we can talk about too. It's just like that approachability on on social, right? Like it's it's a it's a smaller um how do I want to put this? I don't know if you're following my like drift right now, but like in approaching somebody, there shouldn't be as much of that intimidation factor that there is because what's the worst that could happen? They say no.

Sara: 5:21

Yeah, exactly. I fully agree with where you're going here. Shoot the shot, really. Unfortunately, we have seen though, people being in real life not who we perceive them to be online. Right. And so there's this level of fear that can happen where you're like, is she really who I think she's going to be? Whether that's me, you know, or anyone you're cold DMing or meeting or whatever that looks like, whatever you're pitching or asking, or even just saying hi.

Kelly: 5:55

Yeah.

Sara: 5:55

And I genuinely love that. I love when people want to ask me questions or slide into my DMs or are interested about content that I put out there, whatever that is. And then I obviously can hold a boundary if it feels not the right fit or whatever, right? Because there's other things that can happen online that get really weird really fast, and you're just like not interested, delete, block, go bye-bye. But the right fit people, I'm just like, oh my gosh, my DMs are absolutely open for that type of exchange because I have had such beautiful relationships and experiences and opportunities born from that. So I totally understand why you might feel hesitant in that. Yeah. And I hope that we can find more realness and more actual connection born in places like that.

Kelly: 6:47

I think of authenticity. Yes. And if it's one thing that really is sort of like that resounding arch for you specifically, is just how authentic you are in your approach to social media. Thank you for saying that. You're welcome. You see that emphasized in how you're posting and how it relates to being a mom, which will kind of that'll be our segue into talking about that too. But then even like how you show up in stories as well and other podcasts as well, too.

Sara: 7:22

Thank you so much for saying that. I talk to my clients a lot about the importance of that. I teach on this model that your business needs to be anchored in you, your brand, as separate from you, even if it's a personal brand, and your dreamy client. And the Venn diagram of those three things coming together is where the real magic gets to happen because you're thinking of not just yourself, but you're also not just thinking about your dreamy client. And then you're allowing to discern from Kelly, the human versus how the brand needs to show up, or say or the human versus how the brand needs to show up, how the business needs to show up. And I feel for a while authenticity got this bad rap. We were like, oh, we're all we're over authenticity. And I just I think being authentic is we can't stop.

Kelly: 8:23

Right.

Sara: 8:23

We have to continue leading with genuine conviction, beliefs, values of our individual human, layer what those look like for the business because they're not going to be the same. And then that is how you get to show up in a way that feels good for you. Because if it doesn't feel good for you, you're going to stop doing it. And any of us trying to run businesses, we're also doing a million and a half other things. The list is long, and the necessity of marketing is a non-negotiable.

Kelly: 9:01

Totally.

Sara: 9:02

So if we can make it feel authentic, if we can make it feel genuine, if we can make it even a little bit fun, we're going to be far more likely to do that. And so for me, just being like a little unhinged, a little just who I am. Sometimes I'm going to show up in the full face of makeup, and sometimes my hair is going to be a rat's nest on the side of my head because that is my humanness. I'm going to do it. And not every brand should show up that way. Yeah. But that works, that works for me and my brand and how I want to show up. So I appreciate you sharing that because it feels very um easy is not the right, right word because anything business related is not easy, but there's some ease in that for me. There's some effortlessness in that. And that's one thing I really encourage my clients to find for them. That's what we work on together. Totally. Totally. One of many things. But there's beauty in that.

Kelly: 9:54

Let's take a step backwards. And then we are gonna have a beautiful opportunity to kind of bring this all full circle to what you're speaking to right now. So I would love for you to share with the listeners what came first for you. Was it motherhood or was it entrepreneurship?

Sara: 10:11

It was entrepreneurship, full blast. And when I found out I was pregnant with my son, and I've not been shy about this before. So I think I could probably, if people are curious, there's other podcast episodes of me talking about my journey to motherhood. Abel was not on the radar. Oh. And I was devastated.

Kelly: 10:36

Oh.

Sara: 10:37

I started sobbing. The first thing I took that pregnancy test, I started sobbing. And my husband was very empathetic. And um, you know, what are you thinking? And the first words I said were, There was so much more I wanted to do before this.

Kelly: 10:55

Oh, yeah. This is raw, this is real. I told you. This is raw. This is real.

Sara: 11:02

Yeah. And it took a while for me to, I've got so many goosebumps just going like revisiting this. It took me a really long time to feel good at it. And sorry, it took me a really long time to feel good about it, about being pregnant, about approaching motherhood. I thought extremely hard about what I wanted, where I wanted to go, what I wanted my life to look like. How could this integrate with my business? I was already running a business at that time, but it still felt very fresh and young and a little bit fragile. I hadn't found my legs yet. And I'm a very independent, very motivated human.

Kelly: 11:44

You don't say.

Sara: 11:46

You wouldn't have guessed. And so the thought of a tether to have to consider in a way that absolutely I knew if stepping into motherhood was what I was going to do, I knew I was going to do it 110%. I was going to commit. None of those things was I concerned about. I was concerned about what would happen to me as a human and what would happen to my personal goals, which were very associated with my business. And that was earth shattering, fall on the floor, sob a lot, don't know how to process, sharing with the closest circle, not quite with joy, which also was hard because then other people are having a hard time with understanding that.

Kelly: 12:48

For sure.

Sara: 12:50

And spoiler, I'm obsessed. I love it, but that was a hard season. That was challenging for sure.

Kelly: 12:57

I am curious. This thought just popped into my head. Was it was it in like watching other individuals who had already had children and just seeing shifts that were happening to them that that is how we're like that those emotions were coming through? Talk to me a little bit more about where that may have come from.

Sara: 13:25

That's a fascinating question. I maybe subconsciously had some concerns related to that. I think that I was more so experiencing, I'm lucky, I have a lot of extremely strong, um, very beautiful women in my life, in my family, in my close group of friends who are just they're all good at whatever it is they try to do.

Kelly: 13:58

Yeah.

Sara: 13:59

The women in my family are strong and independent on both of my mom's and my dad's side of the family, my close girlfriends who at the time even some had kids, like they're all were nailing it. They were doing such a good job. The dedication and investment into what the women around me with children I could see felt like, oh, of course, that's how I'm gonna do it too. Like that was modeled to me. Being a good mom was modeled to me on many fronts.

Kelly: 14:29

Amazing.

Sara: 14:30

I feel right. I feel so lucky. I feel so grateful that that was my experience. I think, though, what was feeling challenging was understanding the reality that literally everything was about to change in a way that I wasn't driving. It wasn't on my timeline. I wasn't mentally there. And I had kind of just envisioned this we're ready, let's try to have a family. Yeah. And we had never even had, we knew that kids were on the radar. We had already been married. My husband and I had been married for over five years at that point. So it's like we weren't newlyweds, like we had been together forever, and we assumed that that was just in the our near future, but I was just so concerned that I would not be able to effectively reach my my goals and be the mom I knew that I would demand of myself.

Kelly: 15:32

Okay. This is so good, and it's I appreciate your rawness and the real real behind it because it's tough. Like, this is the whole purpose of this conversation and this podcast in itself is to bring about awareness of you're not alone in the boat with a lot of these very like it's sort of like those the the depths of being a mother and the depths of being a business owner, and these emotions that are evoked when certain circumstances come upon us or happen for us. And this was something that was happening for you, right? And I I wholeheartedly relate with what you're speaking to, wholeheartedly. I mean, we knew that we like we got engaged, I told you before we hit record a lot of the backstory of how Maddie came to fruition. We knew that this was going to happen. It was an eventuality, but it was a surprise in and itself, too. And at that time, being in the mortgage industry, what was being required of us as mortgage lenders, and I know that we also have another mutual connection in the mortgage industry, too, who's been on the podcast. It's tough. So unless you're setting borders, boundaries, and you've got the tools and the resources and the SOPs and all of that stuff, it's gonna be really tough. And then add on the other layer of family, it becomes very challenging. I was not fully prepared for all of that.

Sara: 17:22

Yeah.

Kelly: 17:23

And so that was the reason this podcast even started because I was like, Why are women doing it? Uh-huh. And I'm seeing like the Allison Larsons of the world just knock it out of the park and but then also have their own, you know, everyone's got their shit, so to speak. And so I'm going, my head literally felt like the exorcist, like just spinning, spinning, spinning.

Sara: 17:46

Like, and here's a little quick tie back. We talk about social media as this beautiful thing. Well, it's also just one little piece of the pie that for some reason our brains have decided we're seeing other humans' full pictures, which isn't true. So then we are almost comparing ourselves on purpose or not, to unrealistic circumstances. Because even if you think someone's, you know, on stories all day long, like those stories are each 30 to 60 seconds. So even if they post 20 in a day, which feels extreme, right? Like, oh my gosh, look at all those little checks at the top of their stories. That is like maybe 20 minutes max of their 24 hours.

Kelly: 18:29

Totally.

Sara: 18:30

And we trick ourselves into thinking, my gosh, she got the kids out of the house, she did this workout, she got ready, she spent time with her kids, she did the volunteer activity, then she did the pickup line, she closed a deal, she made dinner. Like, yeah, we didn't see the complete meltdowns in between or the support from the nanny or insert thing here, right? But we've tricked ourselves into thinking, oh, she's got it, I don't, and then insert whatever your feelings are from there. I'm not good enough, or she's better than me, or whatever, right? It's so easy to fall for that.

Kelly: 19:02

Yeah. I am curious if you have been victim to the comparison. Because I mean, I'll be the first to raise my hand in this one-on-one conversation and go, that was also a component to those emotions that I was feeling. I'll be vulnerable about that. That comparison was just at an all-time high until I realized, hey, you're running your own race here, sister. But it took a long time to get to that point.

Sara: 19:36

I felt that a lot more in my business than with my babies. And same. Right? And I I don't know how old you are, but I feel like I can't. I just turned four. Oh, you're dead! Happy birthday! I'm turning 39 next week. So we're in like perfect, perfect company here. So I think because I I don't want to lead with because I had kids when I was a little older, because whatever. I'm like, we're fertile, beautiful young goddess women. We're not past our prime.

Kelly: 20:08

Hey, I remember like getting this like geriatric, like verbiage in like during the ultrasound, but then also they were like, by the way, you look really amazing. And I was like, Yeah, thank you, because like, can we not lead with that?

Sara: 20:26

Of course, seriously. Both of my pregnancies were also geriatric, high risk.

Kelly: 20:31

Yeah.

Sara: 20:32

I just I roll, I cannot with any of that language. And I think because I wasn't some 20-year-old little sweet thing that hadn't experienced life or even advocating for myself on any front, by the time it was mom world for me, I didn't feel too comparison-y on that side. But I started my business when I was far younger. Okay. And I think business ownership, entrepreneurship is the best life lesson, the best prep for parenthood, the best when you get beat up, you gotta get right back on those feet. When you fall down, like you can't stay there, you gotta get back up a lot. Exactly. So it's those lessons, I think, that truly helped prepare me for at least some of the concepts of motherhood: resiliency, adaptability, flexibility, losing control. I don't get to control as much as I would like on either front. And so the comparison trap and imposter syndrome, those concepts were much more common in my 20s as I was trying to get my business off the ground.

Kelly: 21:48

Okay.

Sara: 21:49

And I think those learnings really helped me not feel that way.

Kelly: 21:56

Beautiful.

Sara: 21:57

At least this far in motherhood. Because I'm still new to motherhood. I'm yeah, you know, Abel's five and a half. I got a journey. I'm at the beginning. Right. So um, who knows what's to come? But I haven't found too much comparison there. I think that there's something so beautiful in owning these are the pieces of being a mom I'm fantastic at, and here's the things that I'm not great at. And I can celebrate that you you are gonna be great at your things and not feel threatened by that and celebrate you for that. And I just wish that was the attitude of women everywhere. And it's I don't think that that doesn't happen by our choice. I think we've been a little conditioned and programmed to function in this way. Yes, and we are now just kind of breaking out of that where we're not feeling threatened by, we're not mean girling like we once were.

Kelly: 22:48

Like the crab in the bucket type of mentality. It this it's it's funny. My husband and I have talked many a times about this. He's like, you women, sometimes. I tell you what, he's like, the fact of the matter is, I mean, I you look smoking cutie, but I I know you're not dressing nice like that for me. You are just like, but I am, I am. I'm like, yeah, but you know, there are some of these like tough circumstances that we're still finding ourselves in, and I think it's a little bit different here in the Midwest. You do a fair amount of traveling for for business, and so I have found this to be more common outside of the Midwest than here in the Midwest, and and then just like through the lens that I see through social media as well, but to your point, back to this like whole mean girl mentality. I'm like, just be kind. And that's like also a facet of this podcast, and going you're beautiful no matter what shade you're in, just celebrate it and understand that the stories that you're hearing throughout this podcast, one of them is gonna resonate with you. And you're gonna be able to link arms with that particular story and go, that resonates with me. I'm gonna hold tight to that one or I'm gonna connect with Sarah because you know, gosh, I felt the same exact way when I, you know, had been building this business for years and years and years, and then all of a sudden, shoot, I found out I was pregnant and I was not in the timeline that I was expecting. Yeah. So let's kind of go back to that though. I love this podcast. We do get a little tangential sometimes, but it's all very beautiful and it all comes full circle. But so Abel. Abel right. Abel is the oldest. Crosby is so Abel is on the radar now. We got him. And let's let's sort of pick up where we left off. Yeah.

Sara: 25:07

I well, here's I think what else is super fascinating is Abel was born, Abel was due April 1st of 2020, which was just about two weeks after lockdown for COVID happened. Uh-huh. I know the like that reaction throw up a little bit in our mouths collectively. Um, and so there was a ton of fear at that time around, you know, the pandemic and safe healthcare access, and if even my husband could be there with me, and we were hearing horror stories coming out of New York, the city, um, women laboring alone. I mean, it was just there was so much terror happening. And he was just about two weeks late, 12 days late, which was beautiful actually, because I think everyone kind of calmed down just a little bit that it didn't feel quite as tumultuous. But I share all of that because my business had to pivot because of COVID, because everything pivoted. Right. And motherhood looked, early motherhood looked completely different than anything I ever would have imagined. And because of all of that, we ended up keeping him home with us significantly longer than I had ever thought I would keep a kid at home.

Kelly: 26:34

Yeah.

Sara: 26:35

And what a beautiful surprise that was. I assumed that I'd put him in daycare and I would just sit at my desk and I would focus from nine to five and then pick him up because that is what everyone does, isn't it? Like, isn't that what you do when you have a kid and you have a job? Yeah. And I never would have, not never, but I I question if I really would have challenged myself to solve for what I learned my desire to be, which is spend as many moments with my little humans as possible. And this is coming from a woman who wasn't even sure. I assumed, again, we'd have kids, but it was so far off of my radar that I was like, well, maybe it won't happen and maybe that's okay. Like I wasn't the, I want to be a mom my whole life. That wasn't my story. So for me to all of a sudden be like, whoa, I love this. I'm having so much fun. COVID was actually very postpartum in COVID, let me clarify, was actually very beautiful because it was just me, my husband, and my baby. And we all turned into a little 24-hour unit. Abel would wake up, my husband would do the diaper, bring him over to feed, we would stay up together, my husband would put him back down, we would nap together during the day. I mean, it was just like the most John Mayer was playing all the time. We ate and played games in bed. It was just like this beautiful, special. I loved my postpartum. And it would not have been that way if the entire earth hadn't have stopped.

Kelly: 28:14

It was like a uh it forced everybody to stop. But in you know, in this circumstance, it forced you to stop, but then also understand what was the pivot gonna look like for the business.

Sara: 28:28

Yes, too. And I was able to at that time I was very transitioning from freelance to um, or maybe I should say small team to agency model where I could offer more creative services. So I was still doing very comparable scopes of work, but how it was operating was very different. So at that time it was mostly me doing all of it, and I had some admin support, and then I had some like junior level support and I'd toss projects. Hey, can you help me do this or whatever that looked like? Sure.

Kelly: 29:05

And can I can I just stop you for a second? Because I think I don't want to glaze over this part about talking about business and scaling and stuff. Can we talk about it? Yeah, please. Please. I I'm curious about what that model really looked like for you in terms of like, okay, you had your admin, but then you had a couple of junior people on. Yeah. And were they can like sort of like on a consulting basis?

Sara: 29:35

Contractors, proper contractors. Okay. Admin was retainer, so a monthly fee for an agreed scope of work. Sure. And then project based contractors at an agreed upon hourly rate that I would very regularly throw work to.

Kelly: 29:51

Okay.

Sara: 29:52

The because incoming projects, so branding and web design was the core of this at this point. Um, and it was a personal brand, Sarah Schultz.co at the time. Okay. Um, I was really touching end-to-end most of all the projects. So doing the visual identity design. At that point, we didn't layer in a lot of strategy or messaging. I was doing most of the web design and development, doing an awful lot of YouTubing, an awful lot of Googling. You know, YouTube Academy, Google, my degree is from the University of Google. Just kidding, I do actually have a degree, but um, it doesn't really matter for what I'm doing. Um and so I learned that quickly, with the right support, owning the stuff I'm not good at has always been easy for me because I also don't like it. I don't like not being good at something.

Kelly: 30:52

Yeah.

Sara: 30:52

So it was easy for me to offload because I was like, well, I don't like doing this anyway. So yes, please feel free to do those portions of my business. For me, it was um organization. So, you know, being efficient in my calendar, having a well-organized email system, having client folders and onboarding and a lot of those operation things were challenging for me. And I'm good enough at communication that I could manage. So no one was complaining. None of my clients were upset, but it was not operating efficiently, it was not helping with productivity. And it, you know, those examples are just all, I mean, profit sucks.

unknown: 31:29

Yeah.

Sara: 31:29

Just sucks the profitability right out of the bottom line of the business. Both cash and time, my time. Yes. And I really, at that moment, when I was easing back, thinking about taking clients back on, because we had at that point kind of planned a pause. I had known when I was going to be stopping client work and when I would start client work again. Um, obviously that looked different because of COVID, and lots of people changed their minds on things because there was just so much uncertainty. But that business model helped me without having stable cash flow, still find support for growing the business.

Kelly: 32:13

Amazing.

Sara: 32:14

And I was able to do that while keeping Abel home. Wow. And that was the first like, oh, you've unlocked something here. We're gonna keep this up.

Kelly: 32:30

Yes, we're gonna keep this up. Yes.

Sara: 32:33

Because I'm obsessed with my kids. I love my kids. I I miss them when I'm not with them, and don't we all? But I maybe, and you know what? If you don't, that's okay. Sometimes we like our time away. I love my time away. Yeah, but I knew in kind of those moments, like, why aren't more people doing business like this?

Kelly: 32:54

Yeah.

Sara: 32:54

Why aren't we structuring our lives like this? Because I'm I very strongly associate as a business owner, I'm very tied to that version of me as an identifier. But the business allows me my life. Yeah. My kids are my life, my friends and my family are my life. And so I knew, okay, cool. If I can really figure out a way to truly do what I love in my job, in my business, and let that let me do the rest of the stuff I want to do more of, like that's the ultimate cheat code. Like that's the hack.

Kelly: 33:36

Totally.

Sara: 33:37

And so I started sprinting towards that.

Kelly: 33:39

And what I appreciate too about how you are operating your business and then showing up on social media is you're very much going, Hey, watch as I'm doing this. It if I can do it, you can do it. A thousand percent. That's what I mean. I think that, and and I fall into this thought process myself too, Sarah, where I go, I can't even imagine trying to do work at home while having Maddie totton around.

Sara: 34:13

They're when they're older, it's harder. Remember, at this time, Abel probably wasn't even rolling over. When they get mobile, oh, it's a different story. So I will own that. Yeah. And we'll talk about another pivot where like that just didn't work and I had to blow everything up. So we'll get there. Okay.

unknown: 34:30

Okay.

Kelly: 34:30

And I do think it let's just kind of paint the picture for the individuals listening right now, that it is probably dependent also on what type of industry you're in. So like being in mortgage, and I had I was coming off like the very tail end of my maternity leave, like I was staring down the barrel of a gun, basically, is what it felt like. And had a conversation with my branch manager. She was like, Are you gonna be ready? And it was sort of like, I need you to be ready because I need to be done. Like I can't manage both of the at the same time. Yeah. And that pressure sucks. Yeah. The very next day, I am going, I need to take this phone call. I need to take this mortgage application. Maddie's over in the other room. I'm on the phone with this individual, and Maddie starts crying in the other room. And I'm like, I know that. And you're, I mean, you're like just it's been weeks, right? Since you just had your baby, and you're like, everything is tingling in your body, and you're like, I've got I just need, and then I need to, and and I literally felt like my brain toggling back and forth like that. It's awful. That feeling is awful. It is. So I I just want to let the listeners know that yes, it is doable, but to your point originally, how productive and how well are your SOPs in place? Systems operate, you know, all the operations, the procedures. Agree. When you have that and you have your your for lack of better words, like time blocking in place, that can be a reality. It really can.

Sara: 36:16

And that I'll I'll fast track you because I think this is relevant. I learned in those moments with Abel at home, still mostly not movable. And then when he got a little older, my mom would come over two days a week to help. And I did find that I was able to manage workload, client load, being present as a mom. That was feeling good. Sure. And I could see that my capacity, I couldn't do all the business things anymore. I couldn't just do the branding. I couldn't just be the only one doing the websites. Um, I think at this time we were probably taking on our first retainer clients for some social media and some marketing things. And so I started shifting from growth mode to scale mode where I could take on more, not necessarily have it just be me executing. And this is when I shifted into agency land. And even that with was working really beautifully. So this is, you know, we're now stepping into free afternoon, my creative agency at the height of that. I had eight women on my team with me. Wow. Crosby was born during that time. Also an unplanned schedule. Yeah. I mean, at that point, when you do it twice, people look at you like, do you know how this happens? Do you are you forgetting? I just like to have fun. I don't know. Um we uh we did it again. And um that time I felt my husband had a really hard time with Crosby. So we had like we flipped rolls there. He was kind of like, we were gonna go to Europe, we were gonna do all this other stuff. Yeah, whoops. Um so free afternoon was going really well with Crosby being little. I had this incredible A plus team of women just um, they ran the show fully when I was gone. We didn't offboard any clients, everything kept running. I took, I think I was fully off for three months, except for one client that I was on a very high-ticket retainer for that felt like very fulfilling work to me. So, and you know, especially if your baby's sleep, Crosby did not sleep through the night, but he was a great napper and I would just wear them and I would log into my calls with my client and I would just do my stuff and then I'd log off, I'd be done, and he'd just nap the whole time.

Kelly: 38:54

That's the best. Yes. I remember that with Maddie too. Like, and not in the circumstance of business per se, but just like getting out and about and and like, yeah.

Sara: 39:05

Baby wearing is like the ultimate. I just think that's a I wish it was more common in the United States. I think it's getting very common now. But yeah, even the style wraps that I had for my kids, my parents, my mother-in-law, you know, they'd be like, we didn't have anything like this. Like the kid was on our hip or the kid was on the floor. Yeah. I was like, oh no, this is how most of the rest of the world literally continue to operate with little babies. They just kind of come along with.

Kelly: 39:31

So um I do love that integration though. You know, it's um well, it's just real life. So I I do want to just share with you when you were doing the podcast with Jordan.

Sara: 39:46

Yeah.

Kelly: 39:46

I I remember listening to one of the episodes, and I I think it was sort of in the vein of like maternity leave and how drastically different it is here. And it was, I was just like, I was, I think I was in my third trimester with Maddie, and I just remember like sobbing in the car. Like listening to that. I'm like, you're right, Sarah. This is bullshit. Us Americans, it is bullshit. Like, why don't we have better maternity leave for our women? Yeah, you know what I mean? And then also, I started to do a little bit of a deep dive just into the differences of what um that lifestyle of becoming a mom, motherhood looked like here versus internationally. And you bring up such a fantastic point about the integration, yeah, which again, full circle, you are speaking so beautifully to this integration with motherhood and how you are doing your business and operating in business. You're going, I just I love both so much, and I want to have it all sort of mix in as much as humanly possible. Same for us. I mean, Sotheby's is a lifestyle brand.

Sara: 41:03

Uh-huh.

Kelly: 41:04

And so we are sitting here doing this, like, okay, well, Joe had already been incorporating the kids into some of like the videos and stuff, kind of fun. And you know, some of it was professional, some of it hasn't been like a professional video, I should say. Yeah. Some of it has just been like hot takes and stuff. But I'm like, well, wait a second. If if this is where our business is at right now, where we are going, how do we live the lifestyle? There has to be some sort of integration.

Sara: 41:34

Yes.

Kelly: 41:35

We feel comfortable having them on video and stuff. Their mother doesn't have a problem with it either. Why isn't there some sort of full-on integration? Because a lot of our dreamy clients are the individuals who are like move up buyers. Yes. Full-on integration.

Sara: 41:53

Yes.

Kelly: 41:54

And it's it's I feel like it was just up on a soap.

Sara: 41:58

Yes, this is great. Thank you for your TED talk today. I I we have control, especially as business owners. We have full control of we what we say yes to and what we say no to.

Kelly: 42:13

Yeah.

Sara: 42:13

And so for whatever reason, I feel like sometimes we forget that and we get stuck in doing what we think we should do because we're seeing other people be successful doing it, or it's just what we know, or we're not thinking critically, or like whatever that is. Yeah. And, you know, here I am with Crosby, and things are like mostly working, and the agency is going really well. And this is like end of 2023, and I'm feeling pretty good. And there were nagging moments. There would be things where, like, I'll never forget this call. I would 99.99% of the time pause a client call, even if it was a sales call. And if Crosby started crying, I would go get him and I'd bring him on the call. And I'd really just set the tone. Like, you're hiring a team of women who are moms, who value our time. We don't operate in the nine to five. So I was in an industry and prepping because it wasn't rocket science, and nothing was time sensitive. Very different than real estate, very different than mortgages, right?

Kelly: 43:14

It's yeah, but also we are not. This isn't surgery. It's not surgery, life or death.

Sara: 43:19

But there's time sensitivity in your industry that I can absolutely recognize marketing doesn't have that pressure. Sure.

Kelly: 43:28

Yeah.

Sara: 43:30

If you are in like a PR issue, that's a little different. But anyway, my work didn't have this time stamp. I got to set the timelines, the scopes of work with my clients, and I let them know right away what to expect, what to expect. And that, by the way, is you living your brand out loud. That was just me living up to my brand values and following through with my clients. So they were never surprised when I was on a call and the baby would cry, and I'd grab the baby and I would just bounce them on my lap and finish up my call.

unknown: 44:00

Yeah.

Sara: 44:00

Except one time I was on a sales call with an older man, an older gentleman, like boomer age. Yeah. So he wasn't old, but and Crosby started crying. He woke up from his nap and I let him cry because I felt afraid that I wouldn't close this deal. And I felt pressured not by this human, yeah, but by some sort of preconceived whatever, that if I brought my son onto this call in front of this man, he wouldn't hire me. And I don't know why I felt desperate for the project. That it was not a dreamy client. It wasn't a fit.

Kelly: 44:43

Interesting.

Sara: 44:44

And Crosby cried for probably 30 minutes. And I will never forget how rot I got off the call as fast as I can. Of course, the call went over. Of course, I didn't feel comfortable holding my boundaries and protecting my time. I closed the deal, I roll, but I ran. I ran and I got Crosby and I just started sobbing because I made the wrong choice. I knew I made the wrong choice. And so there was these, there were rubs like that, or like I'd be at the park with both kiddos. And this is like four o'clock, very reasonable time to go to the park with the kids after a hair quotes work day. And I would be checking my phone to see if client approvals had come in, or if feedback had come in, or if sign-offs had come in, or if the team. And so it was never these like loud problematic moments. Sure. But I was getting distracted in the areas I was unwilling to continue to be distracted. And I share that because to your point earlier, we're not always in a situation where we have the luxury. My words, not your words, but this is what you were alluding to a little bit at least, of having a full-time integration naturally. Sure. And we get to choose what we want to do or not to do with our time and with our businesses. And I ended up truly having to blow things up with free afternoon in a way that I wasn't, again, planning. I wasn't driving. We've got some life themes here.

Kelly: 46:24

I know. And it isn't it.

Sara: 46:27

Figuring out, okay, how do I rewrite this exactly how I want it to be written that feels exactly how I need it to be to be as fulfilling of my entire desire as perfectly as possible. Because I was unwilling to be distracted at the playground. I was unwilling to let my kid cry. I was even unwilling to put myself in situations where I would have to fight to not have to do that. I was like, I don't even want that on the table any longer.

Kelly: 47:05

Right. This is a really perfect, I would say it's an ideal opportunity to just talk about the failures. Failures, I'm air quoting, right? Like failures or perceived um setbacks, speed bumps, however you want to phrase it. How critical they actually are. Oh yeah. Like we need to have them happen because that's the only way that we're gonna learn. Like our brains are just that's just how it like we're otherwise gonna sit there in like the safe, comfortable spot and continue to do this hamster wheel thing. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Until all of a sudden you go, um, that didn't feel right. And I literally, as you were talking through that, Sarah, I was like, Oh, I bet that didn't feel good at all. And and then you continue to share, and you're like, Yeah, this is this is what ended up happening, you know, like I that was that moment.

Sara: 48:00

Yeah, that was that moment for me. And sometimes it's a lot of little moments, right? Because the agency still ran quite fruitfully after that. And I just, you know, I was like, Well, I'm never making that mistake again.

Kelly: 48:11

Yeah.

Sara: 48:12

And I didn't, I never ever did that again. And um, and you know, now the kids are bigger, I don't have an option, they just barge into the room and there they are in the call.

Kelly: 48:21

So um, but you've set the expectation and you have set that the border and the boundary with your clients. I mean, they have that full understanding of who they are signing on with. It's Sarah and it's Sarah's agency, and this is women-owned, and these are other mothers too. And so, you know, gear up or get out.

Sara: 48:46

Yeah, honestly. And that's one of the biggest things with my clients now that I encourage them to do when they think about what it means to actually activate their brands internally within the culture of their businesses. Yeah. What are you setting your contracts up for? Are you allowing room for a nine o'clock call? Or are you being really damn clear that nope, I will get back to you within 24 to 48 hours or like whatever those are, so that you can build something that feels really good for you. Because it's just not worth it if it doesn't feel good. What are we even doing this for?

Kelly: 49:22

I know. I I I couldn't agree more. Talk to me about um a little bit more about was there a specific moment, and you may have already spoken to this, which is kind of why I'm I'm bringing this up. Has there been a specific dark moment that you can speak to where you were like, that was the that was like that was rock bottom for me?

Sara: 49:48

Yeah, it was 2024. Okay. It was all of it. No, so the end of 2023, my husband gets a phone call from his brother and sharing he was diagnosed with stage three colon cancer. He's okay. I always forget to plant that. When I tell the story, everyone's like, oh my gosh, what he's fine. He does not have cancer any longer. We're like, you're like, wait, what is she about to share? Um, and we immediately, without any discussion, decided that we were going to move to Detroit and be present and be air quotes helpful if we could be. They had just, my brother-in-law and sister-in-law had just had their second baby, like right around the time of diagnosis. And their kids, their my niece is about five months younger than Abel, and our nephew is just about a year younger than Crosby. So kids are relatively in the same age, and we're close with the family. And um, and it's so it like instantly, I in my recollection of this, we just like started packing boxes after that phone call. It was just like, okay, it's time to we're moving.

Kelly: 51:02

That is I just I want to pause for a second and acknowledge. I usually ask the question of you as the guest, like what has your support, your village looked like, but this is such a cool moment of you were that in a in a pretty critical moment, and hats off to you. Not that you need the kudos or the recognition for that, but I I don't know how often that would actually be the case.

Sara: 51:36

Frankly, I don't think you're wrong. I think we're crazy, especially looking back, especially now that it's no longer 2024. Um, no, thank you for saying that. It just it truly wasn't even a question. Um, will my husband was able to work remotely and I built a business for life. Yeah. And so this was the call. And if I'm gonna walk the walk, I like I just got it was just okay, we're gonna make this work.

Kelly: 52:15

Yeah.

Sara: 52:15

At the time Abel was in a Spanish immersion program, so he had transitioned into um full full-time care and he loved it. Uh, we and we loved having him there. So we pulled him out of school. We called it school. Crosby was still at home with me at the time he had turned, just turned one, and we moved in February of 2024. I was projected to do my largest year in business ever. And again, I really strongly associate my identity with my business, and financial success is very important to me. Independent financial success is something that is just very, very important to me. I have owned for most of my business career, business ownership career, that I want to be extremely wealthy. I'm not afraid to say that. I know what I want to use my dollars for.

Kelly: 53:09

Yeah.

Sara: 53:10

Um, and I have found comfort in owning and being prepared to say that. And I have been building business to allow for that to happen. So that's where I speak to the difference of business growth and business scalability. Yes. Two very different things. Um, and so I was on track to have this like relatively quickly from turning free afternoon into this like full-blown agency model to getting there.

Kelly: 53:39

Yeah.

Sara: 53:40

And I'm on uh the edge of my chair with it. And then we moved to Detroit. Um, I don't know if you know a lot about Detroit, but Detroit is a very cool city.

Kelly: 53:52

I do. I think so too.

Sara: 53:54

It is still recovering.

Kelly: 53:55

Yes.

Sara: 53:56

And so um not in the.

Kelly: 54:00

They've done a good, yes, they've done a fantastic job of the like renovation or the um what's the like the Renaissance. It's having this Renaissance, and there totally is.

Sara: 54:13

It is getting better and the city as a whole is still red for crime. You will be in the most beautiful neighborhood. I try so hard to speak no ill will on Detroit. I think Detroit has just been trashed verbally by so many for so long. That is not my experience with Detroit. And the fact of the matter is, you will be in one of the most beautiful blocks in the city, beautiful house, house that's been maintained. They didn't have this like tear down rebuild thing in like the 50s, the 80s, the 90s, like we see in other areas. And they still, Detroit still has these beautiful historic homes that maintain the charm. So you'll be in some of the wealthiest neighborhoods. Beautiful home, beautiful home, literally a home with no roof. Who knows who's living in there? There's activity of some sort, you don't know what it is, and then another beautiful home. It's so it's not even like neighborhood by neighborhood there or block by block. It is house by house.

Kelly: 55:16

That's wild.

Sara: 55:17

That is something that my husband and I have never personally lived in. Will grew up in the suburbs outside of the city, and we were living right in the city. So we had a lot of fear. Um and probably after living there, I it's it feels silly now, but the reality then was I had no nervous system relaxation for an insane amount of time. And survival was there was no thriving at all in our at our time in Detroit. And the fast track of this story is um we decided to keep the boys home full-time again because I was so uncomfortable. I just didn't know where to even put them, and I was uncomfortable at the thought of not knowing. I just, it was a year. We were only gonna stay for a year. It felt like a bad decision. Abel was very sad to leave his school. I get that kids are resilient, but we knew we were coming back to Minnesota. I was like, I'm not gonna put Abel into another program that he falls in love with. I'm not gonna feel uncomfortable driving him to and from school. Like, we wouldn't even go for walks in our neighborhood. We would drive to other places to go and walk. And we weren't even living. Our home was beautiful. I loved our house that we rented.

Kelly: 56:39

High alert. High time.

Sara: 56:41

It was a lot. And again, like I said, looking back, some of it feels silly now, but in the moment, I just didn't know.

Kelly: 56:50

It was your mama bear coming out. You know what I mean? Like big time. Yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of mama bear moments that I look back on now and I was like, I didn't really need to totally, right?

Sara: 57:02

You're just like, oh my gosh. And then by the end of us living there, we were walking around the block comfortably and we knew the neighbors and we knew the non-neighbors that would kind of loiter on the corner and we'd still smile and say hi to them too. Right? Like there was some They were, they were, they were fine. They were fine, right? But it wasn't what I knew. It wasn't what I was comfortable with, it wasn't what I had ever been exposed to before. So having them home in this business model where I was on the scaling was happening, but there was still a stopper there because I still was very integrated in a lot of parts of the work, but I was working with very high-ticket clients. So these clients were investing. I had multiple clients invest multiple six figures with us. So this isn't just like a $5,000 scope of work and I'm hammering through a ton. You these are white.

Kelly: 57:51

Felt like a lot was on the line.

Sara: 57:53

A lot was on the line. And but I had some contracts that just dissolved that I really wasn't planning on dissolving. But again, thank goodness, because I ended up getting to the point where I couldn't handle it any longer. Sure. I what I thought was gonna work for our family, for my immediately, my immediate family unit wasn't working. My husband, because of his job, wasn't able to, we weren't able to toggle the boys like I thought we would be able to.

Kelly: 58:23

Yeah.

Sara: 58:24

And I have this ultimate flexibility, and I was the one that was feeling this intense discomfort, and I was the one that was really like, well, I want to keep the boys home with me. I think my husband would have found a way to be comfortable if we decided to put them someplace, but I was really uncomfortable with that. Yeah. And so I terminated contracts, I terminated my team, I told clients, like, this is the end. I stopped taking people on.

Kelly: 58:49

You burned the ships.

Sara: 58:50

I burned it. I burned it. And there was this. So why this felt dark? Because it was also beautiful. I mean, I got to spend time with my niece and nephew, my sister-in-law, who I love so much. Like what a gift. Again, I wouldn't have probably done that unless I was forced to do that because I wouldn't have thought of it as being something in the realm of reality.

Kelly: 59:20

Yeah.

Sara: 59:22

And doing that was so beautiful. And 2024 was like an ego death after ego death after ego death.

Kelly: 59:32

I remember you speaking to this and whether it was like, I don't know exactly at what point in 2024 you you did speak to this because I feel like everything sort of blends at this point.

Sara: 59:46

Right, right.

Kelly: 59:46

But I do remember you being vulnerable and going, I yeah, I I'm not I'm not hitting my goals. And I don't know if that was on the front end of burning the ships or if that was on the back end of burning those ships.

Sara: 1:00:00

For you, but I bet it was last summer when it was clear that it wasn't gonna happen.

Kelly: 1:00:05

Yeah.

Sara: 1:00:06

What's wild to me in all of this is I was still a multi-six figure business coming out of that year, which I'm proud of.

Kelly: 1:00:15

Sarah, I love this about you.

Sara: 1:00:17

I wasn't profitable. That was my first non-profitable year.

Kelly: 1:00:20

Okay.

Sara: 1:00:22

So yay me for still being air quote successful, reaching a goal that many people don't.

Kelly: 1:00:31

Yeah.

Sara: 1:00:32

And also it was my first year lacking profitability ever since I started my business because I was um the early part of the year, it took me a while to terminate my contracts with my team. I was like, we'll figure this out, we'll figure this out. And most of them were on some sort of retainers that I was like, it'll get better, it'll get better. And then I just was like, fuck it. Like it's not getting, I have to, I'm going to literally drown. I'm going to die. I've never had gray hairs. Like I am trying to recover from it.

Kelly: 1:01:06

By the way, I love that you rock the gray hairs. Oh, yeah, they're just out of the girlfriend. It's yeah, you're gonna giggle at me. But I, you know, it was literally in like me turning 39 to this point where I started to see a couple, and my hairstylist would be like, Are you joking me? Like, I have women who come in and they're like 35 and they have all of these gray hairs like chill out. You're like, but no, but no, yeah, it's starting, they're starting to come up more now. But I'm like, I just think of Sarah, like Sarah's rocking it and she looks beautiful. Why can't I do it?

Sara: 1:01:42

Well, I joke that I always wanted to be blonde, and so like me just being a silver fox will be as close to blonde as I'll ever get. And then I also joke because my babies are blonde as can be, especially Crosby is so, so, so blonde. So I'm like, I mismanifested. I wanted that for me, and I accidentally manifested that for the next generation.

Kelly: 1:02:00

Like, okay, very, very off topic for just a hot second. But do you have individuals come up to your, like, come and meet you for the first time and go, well, where the heck does the blonde hair come from? Yeah. All the time. Like that happens with Maddie. And then Joe, if he's there, he goes, I used to be like blonde, and so it's an eventuality that she's gonna have brown hair. I prayed for blue eye, brown hair daughter, and I know I'm gonna get that because she's got blue eyes. She's close, she can't not have brown hair. We're both like it's gonna happen.

Sara: 1:02:35

Yeah, it's gonna happen.

Kelly: 1:02:36

And she's a girl.

Sara: 1:02:36

That is so funny. So I always joke that I wanted, I wanted blonde hair, so I went. I mean, the 90s was hard for someone that has dark curly hair. Like it was a rough time. I also wasn't like heroin chic like everyone was in all of the ads. We didn't have a lot of body positivity campaigns happening in the 90s. It was it's so true. It was really hard. So true. Did not be that. So, of course, I did all the bottle blonde and the bleaching, and it was awful and it never looked good, and clearly it wasn't meant to be. Um, but yeah, I always wanted to be blonde, and I I had hoped my mom has light eyes, my dad has dark eyes. I had hoped that we would have a blue-eyed baby. My grandma is Iranian, and so she, all of her grandkids, uh my dad is two, and I'm half half Persian, but she had always wanted a blue-eyed baby, and really it was the likelihood what it was like gonna fall on us because my husband has blue eyes. And I said, Okay, well, at least you got your blonde-haired grandchild. Yes, not the blue eyes, they have brown eyes and blonde hair, and like my very tanable skin.

Kelly: 1:03:39

There you go.

Sara: 1:03:40

So they're cute little summer babies.

Kelly: 1:03:42

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Oh, so 20, so 2024 really had been that deep dark valley for you.

Sara: 1:03:53

It was really dark, it was super hard. I was feeling very unsupported by my husband at the time because I think he was, you know, going through his own terrifying things, and we weren't sure what was gonna happen with my brother-in-law, so that was stress. Like, we signed up for stress, like we knew this wasn't gonna be a vacation. Um, and so it it was, it was very stressful. And then all of a sudden, me having projected a fantastic business year, not only was the year not what I thought it was going to be, it wasn't profitable. And all of a sudden, I had stopped my income. I'm not paying myself in that situation because I'm just trying to puzzle pieces together. You're just trying to keep uh like everything, you're trying to keep the head above water. Just attempting my best. And I knew it just wasn't gonna work. I wanted to just be with my kids and to keep them as safe and protected, and I wanted stability. And I knew if it wasn't gonna be me, it wasn't gonna happen.

Kelly: 1:04:50

Yeah.

Sara: 1:04:51

Because the mom, like I'm mother. Yeah, what if that's my job? I am the I am that spiritual guide of the home. I am the one that sets the frequency. If I am calm, my home will be calm. If I am at peace, my home will be peaceful. Mommy was not feeling very peaceful for most of 2024 and faking her way through that. And I'm self-aware enough that I was like, it's gotta give. I can't, I cannot do this.

Kelly: 1:05:25

I want to talk about ego and ego death. And then I also want to somehow find our way back to moms being moms, and how when we have sort of this inner peace that does it it sort of echoes out just like this to the rest of the family. And so we'll come back to that. Yeah, I promise. Don't forget to do that. I won't. I'm gonna put a pin in it. I'll put a pin in it. But the ego and ego death you found yourself in this particular moment of like going, all right, multiple times I've had to just go, nope, I I I have to like I have to basically suck it up and just do what I know is best. And it's not what I actually want to have to do, but I have to. So I would I do want to hear a little bit more insight from you in just how you like built that up to be able to actually do it.

Sara: 1:06:32

Yeah.

Kelly: 1:06:32

And then recognize moving forward that again, I think about this moment that you shared in earlier parts of this interview about that that Zoom with the the older boomer, right? And you literally immediately afterwards were like, that's not gonna happen again, right? And so let's talk about that as it pertains to 2024 and moving through having to work through your own ego, which is very tough. I mean, it's so tough.

Sara: 1:07:04

So tough.

Kelly: 1:07:06

So let's give insight into working yourself up to this point of having to make some really tough decisions.

Sara: 1:07:13

Yeah.

Kelly: 1:07:13

And how you learned moving forward from that. Yeah.

Sara: 1:07:18

Well, humans are naturally geared to find the path of least resistance. We're we're wired that way. And when we cling and we grasp and we hold on to ill-fitting things, it never ever feels good. Or it doesn't work, or it blows up in our face, or there's pro like so for me, the resistance, it was just it got to the point where it was so clear that I had to get on board with the lesson, with the reality, with what the universe was sending me, with like with Abel, I wasn't going to become unpregnant. That wasn't a choice I wanted to make. So it was like, you're going to, and I explored all my options. I'm open about that too.

Kelly: 1:08:21

Yeah.

Sara: 1:08:22

I chose what felt right for me in that moment. And I knew that that meant you're gonna do it then. You're not gonna be a half-ass mom. You're gonna do it. So, like, here you are, you're a mom now. You could fight that. I could have fought that. I could have resented. I could, right? I could have insert feeling here. But I knew that that was never going to serve. Here you are. Get on board. And I did, right? And then you do say up or get up. You literally, you said that earlier. I'm like, that's exactly it. Like, you just I knew that it was going to be so much worse if I didn't just get my shit together. So that has retrospectively clearly been an beautiful epic lesson for a fiercely independent person who wants to control everything. Guess what, girlfriend? You get to only control so many things.

Kelly: 1:09:25

Would you would you consider yourself type A? No. Or type A B? I'm definitely A B.

Sara: 1:09:30

Thank you for recognizing that.

Kelly: 1:09:31

I'm a type A B too.

Sara: 1:09:32

Most, I think probably to like my type Aers, they're very much like God, Sarah's type B because I just like I'm not organized naturally. I can handle, I can like live in chaos. I immediately notice your beautiful home because my home only ever looks like this when I try really, really hard. And like we're having company. And I because I can function, I don't love it, but I can function still.

Kelly: 1:09:52

But Sarah, I mean, like the reality is like, and I'm just going to, I'm gonna come right alongside of you in what we're talking to about like ego, death, and stuff. This is silly, but this is where my ego has had to die in being like house is clean, dishes put away, and and so on and so forth. And you noticed the beautiful house, thank you. I want my guests to come into a warm and inviting atmosphere.

Sara: 1:10:23

I sure did.

Kelly: 1:10:23

But I said to you, what did I say? I said, it's like this until the kids are here. And think about it like how much are they? I mean, Maddie's here 24-7. Yeah, the boys are here 50% of the time. That means 100% of the time this house is otherwise pretty messy.

Sara: 1:10:43

Yeah, right. And that's and that's another, it is a silly example, but it's real. Your choice is to find a way to maintain it so that you feel happy and peaceful.

Kelly: 1:10:54

Yes.

Sara: 1:10:55

Hire support, divvy up the workload, have the kids do chores or have responsibilities. Check, check, check.

Kelly: 1:11:03

Except I don't hire out yet. Okay. We'll get, we're gonna get to that point as businesses start to scale, right? This is just a part of evaluations of what you need to do with your business or not do with your business for that matter.

Sara: 1:11:17

And then you know that, so you can say, you can let go a little of that grip and say, it's okay that the laundry never gets folded and it lives in a pile forever until it goes back into the dirty pile. I just can't never not in a pile. It's either a clean pile or a dirty pile.

Kelly: 1:11:32

This is perfect because I literally just came across, and I think I might have shared it on my Instagram story about this guy who's like, I I can I'll give you therapy in like 30 seconds and I'll save you 15,000. I just literally watched this. Okay, so I just watched this. In it, he goes, Um, he talks about like laundry becoming a roommate. Yes. I was like, uh-huh. I I that has happened.

Sara: 1:11:55

Absolutely.

Kelly: 1:11:57

And so that ways back to you.

Sara: 1:12:00

But you can call that an a little bit of an ego death, right? Where you've had to let go, or maybe this isn't exactly how you let go, but let's just run with this example, where you've just had to let go of that reality. I think motherhood does that for sure. That's that that didn't quite have that didn't happen to me in business ownership. That more so happened to me in motherhood. But the so that pattern was clearly repeated. So I was like, here I am in Detroit. It's not looking how I thought it was going to look. I thought I was gonna be able to continue working. I thought I would feel comfortable putting my kids in a program. I thought I would have support in a way that I did not. Also, I didn't go there for support. Like you said, I signed up to be supporter. Yeah. And certainly not martyring myself at all, but there's this reality of like, okay, dual shit, here you are.

Kelly: 1:12:51

Well, I'm sure that in you may eventually get to this point, but this is just something that's speaking to me. It's like, as you're coming in to support, it's like, well, how shitty is that gonna be? Like, I'm coming in to support, and then all of a sudden I'm going, but I need help. Yes, you know what I mean? Like that was completely understandable.

Sara: 1:13:11

That wasn't the point of that journey, right? And you know, a lot of internal within my family unit conversations needed to be had because there was probably some support that could be given in a different way to me. Um, and that's not what was happening.

Kelly: 1:13:30

Yeah.

Sara: 1:13:31

And gripping and white knuckling never were. And that's when I just was like, it's done. And so um I wrapped up the existing projects, I offloaded as much as I could. I terminated all but one of my team members to help with admin stuff and just keep the operations going um because I just was not present. And I decided the thing I had always wanted to do was to build the group coaching program. So again, this beautiful birth of something that is the scalable model that lets me have everything I want came out of this trauma moment where I couldn't have felt less like me in some ways. And that is what I ended up spending all of my non-mom hours doing was building what is now brandshift method. And that was born at the dining room table in Detroit in the house I loved in the neighborhood I didn't, yes, in a circumstance of stress and fear and loneliness. And I had been working on that programming since 2020, but I it was backburnered, backburnered, backburnered, and Detroit was the catalyst that allowed me to actually have it.

Kelly: 1:15:13

I am like giggling at just all of the metaphors and stuff here.

Sara: 1:15:19

It's like isn't it insane?

Kelly: 1:15:21

One right after another. Okay, the first thing that comes to mind is like it's like Phoenix in the ashes. Wow. And also you were living in a city that is otherwise known for being just uh a shitbox, yeah, right? Yeah, and I'm with you, Sarah. Like it's not, it isn't, and also like two things can be true. Yes, two things can be true, but it's so your story through 2024 is perhaps my favorite. Ah, it really is because it's just like you want to know why, because honest to goodness, all good things come from shitty places, yeah. Like it's yeah. I mean, really, I've lived it multiple times. Okay, so I'm giggling a little bit because I haven't really given you a great opportunity to share like more about the name of your business. Shame on me. No, this is great. So can you share with the listeners a little bit more about your business and what, you know, who's your dreamy client? Let's talk about that. Yeah. Because, you know, I'm sure it's the listeners are like, I've got an idea. It's like branding and marketing and stuff, but let's let's dive deeper into that.

Sara: 1:16:47

Yeah. So I had the agency was done for you. High-ticket clients would come to us and we would help establish their strategy first, what voice their business needed to have, and then the visual identity that is attached to that. And I, in the evolution of my business, so from just kind of being the solopreneur to running a small team to scaling to the agency, I outpriced myself, for better or for worse, from the women that I loved to work with. They couldn't afford me anymore. And I knew right away that I had two very different business models, both of which I was excited to nurture, except that one was paying all the bills, and the other was just kind of the little engine that could, because I wasn't giving it time and attention. But at the time it was called brand branding.

Kelly: 1:17:39

Yeah.

Sara: 1:17:40

And I positioned that as a DIY branding course, but do it better because I'm gonna help you do it.

Kelly: 1:17:46

Yeah.

Sara: 1:17:47

And over, you know, the five years of running that very casually, what I eventually came to in 2024 was oh my gosh, there is so much more that mostly female founders need to figure out so that they actually get to be successful. Because we are constantly being pushed, the 20 hot hooks, or edit like this and it'll work, or go viral. We're we're pushed bullshit and truths that only work when stood up on top of a strong business foundation.

Kelly: 1:18:25

Yes.

Sara: 1:18:26

But none of us know how to build the strong business foundation. Exactly. So none of those other things ever work. Yeah, we're solving for symptoms and not treating the problem. Oof. So good. And so brand shift method is my signature group coaching program, where instead of me doing it for you, I take every single thing I did for my clients at my agency and I teach female founders who are still very hands-on in their business how to do it for themselves. And what I love, yes, and what I love about this is when you are so because this is where I would see gaps over at free afternoon, I would still be working with very hands-on founders for the most part.

Kelly: 1:19:13

Yeah.

Sara: 1:19:14

And if at any point they ran into the necessity to evolve their business, they did not understand the strategy enough innately to strategically shift what needed to be shifted. And therefore, that investment wasn't fulfilling its fullest destiny. I was always proud of our work. Our work is incredible.

Kelly: 1:19:41

It is. Well, I just look at what you have created just for yourself, and I've dabbled a little bit in some of like the other brands that you've um helped build as well. It's fantastic.

Sara: 1:19:54

Thank you. I'm proud of what we produced at Free Afternoon, and I have an insider track of what's happening with some of those founders, and I'm like, you're not executing this right. You you you clearly aren't understanding, and that's not your fault. Right. And so, brandshift method is my opportunity to one be priced far more accessibly than the agency ever was. It allows me to scale. Now I'm one to many. I can have 50 women on a call with me.

Kelly: 1:20:23

Yeah. And so thank you for saying that because I literally was just gonna go, okay, you need to talk a little bit more about that for the listeners. Yeah. Because there's something to be learned here. If there's somebody who's listening who knows that their business could, you know, go in a couple different, they could it could move in a couple different directions, or they're exploring, like, I feel like I've hit the ceiling. You know, like what do I, what sort of pivot can I make, even if small, to start to be able to see more scalability. Exactly. And you're speaking to that right now.

Sara: 1:20:55

Exactly. So it's a 12-week program, all of the curriculum is waiting for you. You check out today, you get access to everything. And then there's a group coaching call component where I am helping you solve your specific business's problems. So nothing is cookie-cutter here. This does not build a brand, there are just core things every single business has to do non-negotiable. My dad was asking me questions the other. He's like, I don't understand how this isn't industry specific. And I'm like, well, because every business needs to have a brand voice. Yes. Every business needs to have a clearly identified dreamy client. Every business needs to have core values and differentiators, and every business needs to consider those things as they are conveying their message to their dreamy client. Every business needs to decide what their offer is. Every business needs to decide what their next product is going to be. Every business, right? It doesn't matter if you're a service provider, if you're a solopreneur, if you have a product. This is literally the bare minimum you have to figure out to do anything else in business.

Kelly: 1:22:00

Otherwise, you are just you're all over the place.

Sara: 1:22:03

You are a house of cards that will collapse. So guess what happened? I did burn free afternoon down, technically. Like if the perfect fit dreamy client lands in my inbox, I will bring the team back together. We did a project like that this year, brought the old team back together. That's so fun. It was a blast to be able to do that again.

Kelly: 1:22:23

Well, what I love about what you're sharing right now is there weren't any bridges that were burned in the process. It was just like, hey, team, this is I was very honest. This is where we're at right now. And just because it's no right now doesn't mean it's, you know, not a yes in the future.

Sara: 1:22:44

It was very clear that this isn't what I wanted to have happen, but this is what that is what needed to happen to happen. And I tried very hard to take very good care of my team. I feel confident that they would say nothing but fantastic and loving things, and we still all have great relationships, and I miss seeing them every week, and I miss a lot of that cadence because business ownership is lonely, and I had this little girl gang that we got to just hang out, and I felt very supported and they were very on board for my mission, and they were very on board with what I was doing, and we were so well aligned. Like I can only say fantastic things about that team that I had the privilege of leading.

Kelly: 1:23:26

That's incredible.

Sara: 1:23:26

It was, it was, that's part of the reason I felt so sad was not getting to um spend time with them and pay them and help them, right? Like we were all just doing things that we loved, which they still are. That's not they're not. Um, but that was a hard thing. But because I know what I know and I teach what I teach, this will be my first full-time year running a group coaching program. I've already outperformed six figures again. I found a way to keep high five, double high five. I uh that's amazing. The scalability is there. This is going to be the million-dollar plus business model because I, well, I'm psychotically convicted, so it will be. And I've actually finally built something that allows for that to happen while also getting to work with the coolest women who like I had one of my first calls yesterday for our new group. We just started another round, and I got to talk to these women about how the reason they chose to do brand shift method with me and not work with a different coach to grow their business is because they too want to build something that buys them time in other places. And so I don't specifically say this is for moms who but I also very strategically layer momhood in my core messaging so that the moms can see, hey, you don't have to let your baby cry for 30 minutes because you're in a business or in a job that you don't like.

Kelly: 1:25:07

Do you find that you're working more with people here locally, or is it just it doesn't matter because you have done such a fast fantastic job building what you have on socials?

Sara: 1:25:20

Yeah, I most of my clients in the program actively right now, I would say maybe half are local-ish. Okay, because I do have such a great incredible community in the Minneapolis market. Um, but I had a gal come through from Switzerland. I have a gal from um the Dominican Republic. Like they've just found the program through the marketing efforts I teach.

Kelly: 1:25:51

What's really cool though is that you are doing not only domestically, like working domestically, but internationally too. Yes, fantastic. I like wanted to get a map of like who are I know who can bring it to putting pins on it like and start setting goals around like, ooh, how can I get somebody from this area in Europe?

Sara: 1:26:13

And like what's so cool to me is one of my whys of wanting wealth is talking about like the ripple effect of helping elsewhere. My husband and I traveled full-time for almost three years just for fun when we were younger and more agile and um like physically agile. And I saw a lot of very different living circumstances than what we just frankly are abusing the privileges of as modern-day Americans. It's wildly disappointing. If you have seen anything outside of the United States, whoo, talk about privilege. Um kidding. It's shocking. And I just think about like the ripple effects of the communities I am indirectly getting to impact by helping these women build businesses that help them generate income and deliver services in their communities or deliver products in their communities. Like that ripple effect is just so cool to me.

Kelly: 1:27:14

That is, I would have never thought about it like that, but you make a very fantastic point that in the brilliant ideas that you have as an individual, because I'm gonna toot your own horn for you right now, and then going and sharing that and helping these female founders do what they do best, also while being efficient, while being profitable, also, like because then the your your whole thing is how can I help you find your dreamy client?

Sara: 1:27:49

Yeah.

Kelly: 1:27:50

Let's do it.

Sara: 1:27:51

Yeah, exactly. And everything gets more fun. So when you are able, one, to anchor in you, your brand, your dreamy client, like we started this episode touching on at least, you get to fast track to solving the rest of the problems of your business, but also you are armed to understand the friction points and then strategically pivot. So I did a very extreme version of that in 2024 when I was just like, ugh, okay, free afternoon, it's just not working. And I was smart and strategic enough, because I'm good at what I do, to keep a very entertained and very um engaged audience. I was staying relevant, I was sharing what made sense, I was bringing them along for the ride, and then I was like, oh, I've got this offer for you. I can, I can give you something now. You didn't qualify over here at free afternoon to not your fault.

Kelly: 1:28:52

Yeah.

Sara: 1:28:53

But now I have something that you can have that I cannot wait to give you. And so my very extreme pivot is the perfect example of what I teach in Brain Shift Method, because whether you like it or not, you are going to need to evolve your business. Something is gonna happen, whether you want it to or not.

Kelly: 1:29:14

A thousand percent.

Sara: 1:29:15

Mine was Detroit and a choice, but it could be COVID. Nobody chose that. It could be the market crashing, it could be new technology being born. All of these things are already happening. It could be you getting pregnant and you weren't planning it. You are going to need to strategically, well, I want you to be able to strategically do it. Yeah. But your business is going to change whether you want it to or not. And so, Brainshift Method, I'm so proud of because not only do I help them teach how to nail their message and connect it directly to their dreamy client so that they're winning today, but I'm also teaching them how to fix the friction that they will inevitably feel. Six months, seven years, doesn't matter. And they're just gonna rinse. And repeat everything they learned in Brain Shift.

Kelly: 1:30:03

You talked about this, and let's just kind of full circle moment about the importance of having a strong foundation.

Sara: 1:30:11

Exactly.

Kelly: 1:30:12

Whether it's with your business or building a strong foundation as a mom or having a strong foundation with your spouse, your extended family, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But the more of a foundation that you have that's built on strong core values and you know all of the things that you dive into with what you're doing with the group coaching, the better.

Sara: 1:30:37

Yep. Because you might weather the storm, the storm is still gonna come. But if you've duct taped and bubblegumed, if you've just been tossing spaghetti at the wall, if you're trying to solve for, oh, if I only post more, if my marketing was better, I wish I had a newsletter, or I wish I was more consistent, is very common. Yeah. You are probably just house of cardsing, and it's gonna all fall down. If the foundation is there, you still are gonna test. I I I this is the least sexy thing about marketing, is it still is testing. There's not a magic ball. There's way too many variables in marketing to allow for me to say this is gonna strike and work every single time. So, first of all, don't fall for that. If you hear that from anybody, that is a lie. That's just not true. For a million reasons we don't have time to go into today, but I'm happy to come back and talk about it. Um but if you at least have that strong foundation and understand how that was created, you will be able to course correct regardless of what gets thrown at you.

Kelly: 1:31:56

Again, it's so good. I mean, it's it really is. It's so good, and it just speaks to all of these other different parts of life too, because that same thing can resonate across the board.

Sara: 1:32:10

And the first thing I force my clients to do, the whole first chapter, if you will, is all about them as the individual. And they're like, oh my gosh, this was therapy. I didn't know I needed it. I'm like, yep, well, I knew you needed it because I'm not in the business of building unsustainable businesses. I want you to build something that's gonna last. So we're gonna have to get really, really real with each other here. That's so good. So that we're actually building something that's gonna help you go in the direction that you want to go. Because guess what? I was marching towards something that I knew wasn't going to be the model, but I got super excited about the multi-six figure clients and the big dollars that were coming in. I've never had that much money in a bank account before in my entire life.

Kelly: 1:32:49

But you know what? I my husband and I talk about this a lot. I mean, both in the respect of being business owners, but then also husband and wife. Like when is enough enough? Right? And sometimes you have to have those moments to understand wow, how that was operating over there while I was making a boatload of money. I was not happy.

Sara: 1:33:23

It wasn't going to be sustainable. There you go. I I just it wasn't. And I knew, and the crazy thing was is I was still marching towards it because it was working. And I also knew it wasn't going to be sustainable. And that is why I force my dreamy clients to start with the you portion of that Venn diagram. Because I don't want you to waste an ounce of your time or a single penny of your dollars in running towards something that is ill-fitted to your lifestyle. We do not have time to waste. I need your greatness to get out into the world.

Kelly: 1:34:00

Ain't nobody got time for time for that. Right? All right. I I know that we have just a little bit more time here, so I want to try to capitalize on the little bit of time that we do have left. Um in a nutshell, can you share what has um self-care looked like for you, Sarah?

Sara: 1:34:22

Lacking.

Kelly: 1:34:24

I don't believe it. I no, I truly don't. And here's why I I I call poo-poo on it because most people think like self-care needs to be like I go and get my nails done, I have to go regularly to get my hair done, I need this, I need that. When in actuality, it's like I can I I operate and function well on six and a half hours of sleep. If I can do that, that's self-care for me.

Sara: 1:34:50

I agree with your mentality around self-care. I do think I've been doing a bad job of honoring what I know that I need. So here's what I'm working on. Maybe that's this is how we can pivot this. Perfect. Um, although I do really love a spa day. I feel like so refreshed coming out of that. That is like, give me a spa week, please. Amen.

Kelly: 1:35:12

Hey, husbands who are listening because there are some husbands that listen. If you want to know what your wife, ma, wife wants for Mother's Day or birthdays, like always a spa day. Always a spa day. I don't want to broad stroke it, but like Sarah and Kelly are saying, always a spa day.

Sara: 1:35:31

Like, give me eight plus hours in a robe. I don't even need to get a treatment, but nobody look at me, nobody talk to me, nobody probably mom. Nobody asked me for a drink, nobody asked me a single question besides, do you want your feet rubbed? Yes. That's the only question I want to get asked. So want that always works for rejuvenation. Here's what I'm working on right now. I'm working on putting really good food in my body first thing in the morning. I am great at not eating breakfast early in the morning. And um, I think I've spent most of my life actually operating just fine that way. And I don't think that was working in this phase of my life.

Kelly: 1:36:06

Yeah.

Sara: 1:36:07

So that amazing, by the way. It's amazing. It really is. I've been prepping smoothies, you know, on Sunday and then just putting the jar right into the blender in the morning to just like help get me like nutrient dense, easy on the road. Because I'll prioritize making full, delicious, nutritious meals for everyone else and not me getting to sit down and eat it. So that is one thing I'm really working on right now. Um, movement always helps me and is really hard for me to get back into. So like I'll do a good six months of being on my Peloton religiously, and then someone's sick, or I get sick, and then I lose it. It's really hard for me to get back onto routine. So I'm trying to, I got back on my bike again this week, and that felt really rewarding and nice. Um, and then I'm a here's the one self-care that I have not let go of. I love my smuddy fairy books. So what is this? Acatar, a court of a court of thorns and roses. Stop it. Stop it right now. Kelly gets her phone off in preps to send it to Kelly. Wait, wait. You don't know, like Sarah J. Mass. You don't know. No. Okay, girlfriend. Well, send it to me. This is like Game of Thrones, world building. Um I'm gonna blow your mind right now.

Kelly: 1:37:29

I have not watched Game of Thrones.

Sara: 1:37:30

That's fine. Okay. Um but I do dig like, you know, I always loved Harry Potter.

Kelly: 1:37:35

I was just gonna say, so like yeah.

Sara: 1:37:36

The joke that my best friend and I have, we fit the basic bitch who read Harry Potter, then read Twilight, then read Um Hunger Games, then read 50 Shades of Grey. That's when you get a little naughty. And then we stopped reading for 20 years until Sarah J. Mass introduced us to Faye males.

Kelly: 1:38:02

Okay.

Sara: 1:38:04

It's like fantasy romanticy. Um, but anyone that's listening, if you want a recommendation, I can tell you all of my main male character boyfriends, I can tell you all my book boyfriends, but it is brainless, it is fun, um, it is like, well, actually, that some of the universe building is confusing, but anyway, um it I I will have I will listen or read is my point.

Kelly: 1:38:30

Yeah.

Sara: 1:38:31

I that is one thing I have consistently done. I re-picked that up religiously in Detroit as like a I need just something, and I could do that with audiobooks as I was doing other things.

Kelly: 1:38:43

Yeah. Good on you. I have a very difficult time um listening to audio anything while trying to do work. And I can't do it at the same time.

Sara: 1:38:54

I would I would do it like while I was doing the dishes. Okay. Not like my desktop work. Okay. Or if I was like sweeping, I would like get a couple, or I would listen to it before I go to bed and I'll put the timer on because I almost always fall asleep. But I'm literally re-listening to the Aquatara series right now, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I had no clue that happened. Wait, when did he do that? Like, so clearly I was only half paying attention the first time.

Kelly: 1:39:15

Like half dozing off and you thought that you were catching it. Which is like kind of fun because I'm like, oh my gosh, where did I know that happened?

Sara: 1:39:21

But I I probably have read, I would guess in the last like 18 months. I'm probably 50 plus books. That's incredible.

Kelly: 1:39:30

Both audio and and physical. Okay.

Sara: 1:39:33

Mostly audio, but yeah. So fun. Okay.

Kelly: 1:39:37

But yeah, audio fantasy. I'll add it to the list. And then you'll get a text from me when I get my book, and I'll be like, hey, Sarah, look, check it out. Okay. I'm gonna take a little pivot because again, we we have just a few more minutes, but I want you to get up on your soapbox and talk about the digital age, the technology age that we are in as it sits now. AI is taking over, and I know that you have spoken to this, but I do think that this would be just a nice little way for us to kind of like start to land the plane, so to speak, for the listeners and get you out of here so you can get one of your children. Yeah. But I know that you have a lot of interesting points about this, and I know that you you have a soapbox for it too.

Sara: 1:40:19

So go. I am a big strong believer that tools and technology are can be our best friends. They can be our supporters of us growing fantastic businesses. And in an era where AI is absolutely going to take jobs and is absolutely going to dilute uniqueness in especially messaging, we're seeing it now. You can tell what Chat GPT has written. And that's not going anywhere.

Kelly: 1:40:56

Yeah.

Sara: 1:40:57

But our humanness is what will continue to make us desirable, special, intriguing, exciting. Um, I mean, until the models get really scary. But for now, my vote is find a way to integrate so that you gain efficiencies, you increase profitability, but you have to do it intelligently. So here's a this is a literal great example of if you don't have the foundation, it's going to suck. If you do not have clarity around what you should sound like, you can never prompt check. You're never gonna be able to prompt it. Never. It will never output something that doesn't sound like a robot because you've given it nothing. Yes. And so even when you get sold, like, here are the prompts that helped me write my best, blah, blah, blah. If you do not have an established brand strategy, your voice identified, and one of the we haven't touched on this, but your visuals are actually the most important part of your message, but nobody talks about that. We think message is what you say, message is also how it looks.

Kelly: 1:42:04

Okay. Yeah.

Sara: 1:42:05

So we talk a lot about that in Brandshift, but I digress. We'll go back to if you do not know what your message is and why it is the way it is, and if you have not built that on you, your brand, and your dreamy client, it doesn't matter if you have the best, the most perfect, geniusly well-written, open AI handed you the best prompt ever for you to use, it's not going to output. You have not input the right information for the output to ever have a chance to work. And the problem right now is output gets to be really high because we do have these really cool tools that help us with efficiency. But now what you're finding is inconsistency in message, both visuals and voice. But let's just, if we want to stick on the visuals, or excuse me, if you want to stick with the voice right now. Um, and then the inconsistency is causing confusion. And the confusion absolutely does not lead to sales. There's no opportunity to sell to a confused person. That doesn't work. You have to have clarity to drive a sale. And so a lot of misuse of these toys tools, toys. I wish they were toys. Because sometimes they can feel like toys playing, like you're playing. Um, it gets a lot more fun when you know what you're doing, I'll tell you that much. And the output gets to be great when you know what you're doing. But a lot of people are misusing these tools and they're getting frustrated because it's not working for them. And the gap is gonna grow between the people who have figured it out. They're gonna continue to grow and scale and make the money and be known. And then everyone else is gonna be treading water, barely figuring it out.

Kelly: 1:43:41

100%.

Sara: 1:43:42

And you're like all of a sudden you're looking at yourself and you're like, I'm great at what I do. I'm so good at my job. I am the best deliverer of my product, but nobody is paying attention to you. Yeah. And you need welcome to the digital era where you do not have a choice but to market. You have to show up. You have to sell, you have to know the difference between the two of those things. And you have to do it consistently from top to bottom.

Kelly: 1:44:07

Yes.

Sara: 1:44:07

Externally and internally.

Kelly: 1:44:09

I don't know if you guys can hear the emphasis that Sarah's giving right now, but she certainly like almost jumped out of my like was making her points, talking with her hands and being very like emphasis on this.

Sara: 1:44:25

It's never been easier to start a business than it is today. It's never been cheaper to start a business than it is today. You can bootstrap, you can get a business started for little to no dollars. Yes. You can host a website for free, depending on the platform. You can use social media for free. You can make something for the in the free version of Canva for a logo, you can send emails for free. Like there are free, free, free versions. So think about that. Everyone has the opportunity, not everyone, but most people have the opportunity to start. The smart ones are strategically doing it so that they're the ones that actually get listened to. Because if nobody even knows you're there, they can't buy from you. You could have the best service, the best product, the best insert what you do here. It doesn't matter if nobody knows who you are.

Kelly: 1:45:14

A thousand percent. There you go. I love it.

Sara: 1:45:18

Mic drop, goodbye.

Kelly: 1:45:19

Mic drive, and we're out. No, I think that that was that was incredible to just kind of emphasize that. Well, let's just take for instance chat GPT, right? Like that's one of a gazillion different options for AI purposes, right? But like it's a tool and it's how you use that tool. It's no different than walking into Home Depot, seeing all of the tools and going, okay, well, I've got this wrench, but I if I'm not applying it properly in the work that I need to do, it's not gonna serve its purpose.

Sara: 1:45:57

Yeah, I don't know how to use a jigsaw, but I I have one.

Kelly: 1:46:00

Right.

Sara: 1:46:01

Like, what am I gonna do with a jigsaw? I literally don't know. I don't know how to use it. I mean it's uncomfortable because she doesn't know.

Kelly: 1:46:08

Right.

Sara: 1:46:08

I'm like, I don't know. I don't know what to do with a jigsaw. I think it's like, I don't know. That's my point. We don't know what a jigsaw is. Yes. I have one at my house, but like, am I qualified to use it? No, I have to like do some foundational things first before I grab the damn jigsaw.

Kelly: 1:46:21

Yes.

Sara: 1:46:21

So just because you can have Chat GPT doesn't mean you're using it well.

Kelly: 1:46:25

I don't know if we could have landed that one home any more better than we did. Yeah, right. It's like very clear. It is 100%.

Sara: 1:46:33

You know, I just my goal always is to inspire women to sprint as fast as you possibly can and is comfortable for you towards the life that you want to live. And I believe very strongly that the more women that have autonomy in time and how they use their own money, the world gets to be a better place. That's my like feminist flex. Yeah, but I do that by teaching women how they get to build profitable, sustainable businesses. And then go do whatever you want with the money, with the time. I don't care what you do at that point. But I want you to have the choice to be able to do that. And too many of us are sitting here feeling like I'm not worth investing in myself. I'm not worth this business, actually. I don't deserve the time away from my family to figure this out. I need to go do all these other things first. When we get stuck in a trap, I'll own it too. Like I just said, I'm not moving my body as much, I'm not feeding myself. It happens to all of us.

Kelly: 1:47:36

Yes. And in one of those um buckets of life. In the wellness wheel, so to speak. Like you when you're pulling too much from one of them, it means that there's another area that's gonna be lacking. And how do you try to create um a wheel that can sustain over time that isn't just like, you know, I think of like um flintstones, like oh yes, yeah, you know, like they're they're rock wheels. Like, unless they smoothed it out as much as possible, I mean they're gonna be bumping down the road.

Sara: 1:48:09

Or like my best friend and I talk about pieces of the pie. The pie never changes sizes, the pieces just start to get a lot smaller. Yes. There's not more pie. The pie is nine inches. Yes. Where are the pieces of the pie going? What are the sizes of each of those pieces? And so if I can help you build something that gets you talking to your dreamy clients faster than ever, with more ease than ever, with more clarity, closing the sales, pricing appropriately, marketing in a way that feels genuine and authentic, you get to be successful.

Kelly: 1:48:46

Yeah.

Sara: 1:48:47

Therefore, I get to be successful. And again, that ripple effect is so fucking cool to me. It is.

Kelly: 1:48:53

I just love, I just love, I love what you're doing, Sarah. I have so thoroughly enjoyed how we got connected through social, finding out about all of these mutual connections that we have. We're only gonna continue to grow what that mute those mutual connections are as well. So that to me is just super thrilling as we agree. Um we're gonna we're gonna actually land the plane now.

Sara: 1:49:18

We're gonna land the plane.

Kelly: 1:49:21

I would love for you to first share a piece of advice that you would give a younger version of yourself knowing all that you know now. It always works out. And what's a piece of advice that you would give somebody who right now, a woman right now, that let's apply it to what you do best, that is they're struggling. And like, you know, maybe they're halfway built with that foundation. What's one piece of advice you'd give them right now?

Sara: 1:49:56

It always works out.

Kelly: 1:49:59

And how can our amazing listeners find you?

Sara: 1:50:02

Well, I'm obsessed with Instagram, so come hang out with me over there. I really will respond at Hey Sarah Schultz. No H on Sarah. Um, and my website is heysarahschultz.com. And all of the information of where else to find me, hopping on my newsletter, learning more about Brainshift Method, all libs, you know, between those core platforms that I just love to nurture and use.

Kelly: 1:50:23

This has been so fun.

Sara: 1:50:24

I agree. Kelly, thank you for having me.

Kelly: 1:50:26

You're so welcome. I'm really grateful to have gotten a little glimpse into the last couple years of Sarah's momming, entrepreneurship, being a mompreneur, and just knocking it out of the park. So thank you. I appreciate it so much. Have a great rest of the day. You too. Thank you. Thanks for listening. And if you enjoyed this episode and know of any inspiring mamas who are powerhouse entrepreneurs, please help connect them with myself and the show. It would mean so much if you would help spread this message, mission, and vision for other mompreneurs. It takes 30 seconds to rate and review, then share this episode with your friends. Until the next episode, cheers to reclaiming your hue.