Ep. 84 with Sarah Line | Founder/Owner - Boredroom Breakouts & Power Up

From Humanitarian Roots To Boredom Breakouts: Reinventing Leadership With Neuroscience And Grit

Start with candor and stay for the courage. Kelly sits down with Sarah, the founder of Boredroom Breakouts and creator of Power Up, to explore how immersive experiences—think rock walls, flying trapeze, and creative challenges—rewire leaders and teams faster than another deck in a conference room. What begins as a lighthearted riff on words shifts into a deep dive on fear’s architecture, motherhood’s guardrails, and the kind of community that won’t let you quit.

Sarah shares the arc from leading humanitarian trips to building a neuroscience-informed space where teams practice under pressure and leave having already done the work together. We unpack three core social fears—separation, ego death, and loss of autonomy—and translate them into clear choices: how to see what your brain is protecting, when to face it, and how to build the cognitive muscle to choose courage. Along the way, we challenge perfection in favor of excellence, and we talk honestly about the heart tugs that help parents and founders make timely course corrections without guilt.

This conversation is full of practical takeaways: four pillars to anchor growth (challenge, courage, connection, consistency), a “guardrails” model for presence, and a rehearsal mindset that turns teams into true teams. We also get personal—on spousal support that changes everything, faith as clear guidance, and legacy as capacity shared widely rather than wealth hoarded. If you’ve ever felt stuck in a fear loop, burned out by meetings, or hungry for a leadership approach that feels alive, this is your sign to try something different.

If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a friend who leads a team, and leave a review with one fear you’re ready to face next. Your words help others find conversations that move them.

Resources:

• Amplify Your Influence - Rene Rodriguez
• Think Like A Monk - Jay Shetty
• The Blue Zones - 

Connect with Sarah:

• LinkedIn: Sarah Line
• PowerUp Training Club: PowerUP
• Website: Boredroom Breakouts

Contact the Host, Kelly Kirk:

• Email: info.ryh7@gmail.com

Get Connected/Follow:

• The Hue Drop Newsletter: Subscribe Here
• IG: @ryh_pod & @thekelly.tanke.kirk
• Facebook: Reclaiming Your Hue Facebook Page
• CAKES Affiliate Link: KELLYKIRK

Credits:

• Editor: Joseph Kirk
• Music: Kristofer Tanke

Thanks for listening & cheers to Reclaiming Your Hue!

Chapters

• 0:00 Candid Opener On Language And Intent
• 1:46 How We Met And Shared Energy
• 3:32 Motherhood Before Official Entrepreneurship
• 6:01 Blended Family Dynamics And Reflection
• 9:13 Introducing Boredom Breakouts’ Core Idea
• 12:28 Experiences, Retreats, And The Power Of Challenge
• 15:08 Humanitarian Origins And Business As A Catalyst
• 20:03 Core Values: Love, Connection, And Integrity
• 23:02 Perfection vs Excellence And Women’s Fear Loops
• 27:20 Community, Support Systems, And Vulnerability
• 31:25 Marriage As Partnership And Unwavering Support
• 36:21 Presence, Gratitude, And Daily Micro Moments
• 40:52 Motherhood, Guardrails, And Being Present
• 45:00 A Day In The Life And Entrepreneurial Focus
• 49:24 From Sibling Venture To Solo Vision
• 53:40 Resistance, Fear, And Taking The Next Hold
• 57:30 Mapping Core Fears And Rewriting Patterns
• 1:01:38 Connection, Longevity, And Communal Health
• 1:05:15 Legacy, Generosity, And Global Impact
• 1:10:20 Faith, Inner Guidance, And Courageous Yes
• 1:13:12 Advice For Younger Self And New Founders
• 1:16:12 How To Connect And Closing Gratitude

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:00

Good morning, Sarah. Good morning, Kelly. How are you? I am stoked to be here.

Kelly: 0:08

I love that word. Stoked.

SPEAKER_02: 0:10

I love words.

unknown: 0:11

I think they're fun.

Kelly: 0:12

Well, you know, let's just let's just cue the listeners in on our pre-conversation to hitting record and the word.

SPEAKER_02: 0:24

Well, it's explicit. So there's your warning to pause or get children out of the car if you're listening to this. One of my favorite words is just it's clusterfuck. And I was explaining this to Kelly because I was like, do you allow swearing? And she's like, Yes. And I was like, I've tried to find another word for this. And I feel like it comes up at least once a day for me. So I thought the odds were good. So we just had to get that out of the way.

Kelly: 0:51

Yeah, we just had to. But that's your that's the whole point of like words. Words. Words matter. They do. And sometimes specific situations call for emphasis. Such as clusterfuck. But this interview, this conversation is not gonna be that. I'm very excited for us to dive in. So, Sarah, I'm thrilled to have you here. This has been a long time coming. Yes. Like a year in the making. And I think that I had probably pre-introduction to the person that I'll let you share how we got introduced. I think I had been following you on LinkedIn already. So I'm I'm fairly confident of that. So I had a baseline and a foundation of who Sarah is, what she does, but then this introduction. And would you like to share how it is that we got introduced?

SPEAKER_02: 1:48

Yeah, so I have a great friend, Kristen, who was on this podcast. And she had reached out with an introduction. She's so lovely. She has been on a number of my retreats, our leadership development retreats. And she's just amazing. Such um a deep thinker. She's fun. She's gritty. She's a financial advisor and just like just so much more than I kind of expected from that typical role, you know, just dominating her field, just doing so good. And I've been lucky enough to have her on some of my retreats and get to know her really well. And she had reached out and said, this isn't an introduction, I think would be great. And you guys would have really good energy.

Kelly: 2:37

Yeah. So and we do. I really feel like we do. We finally were able to nail down a time to connect. And that conversation turned into a much lengthier conversation than I think both of us thought it was going to. Because initially, when I'm I'm getting introduced to somebody, it's like, hey, let's let's test the waters, see if they might be a good fit for the podcast, explain the emphasis of the podcast. And then we just kind of got into more topics, and that led to another one, and that led to another one, and all really around women and the psychology of women and like human beings in general with fear and what have you. So human behavior. Human behavior. So Sarah, we're gonna we're gonna really dive into the meat and potatoes here so the listeners understand a little bit more about Sarah and what it is that she does. But can you start with sharing what came first for you? Was it motherhood or was it entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_02: 3:49

Well, I think it depends on which lens you look at this, because my first business air quotes was when I was a child. I had four brothers, and my mom would rotate which kid could go to the grocery store and to give us a dollar to buy a treat. I would go and buy a jar of pickles because we all like our like love pickles. Like it's our favorite food. Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 4:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 4:14

I would like buy a jar and then I go home and I have like one. And like the smell would, you know, like loft past their nose and be like, can I have a pickle? And I'd be like, I'll sell you a pickle for a dollar. And I would make like five dollars off of a jar of pickles. So, you know, that was one of my first entrepreneurial journey and understanding of supply and demand. No kidding. But um, as I got older, you know, I really thought I was gonna be humanitarian and business wasn't something that was typically, especially the way that I grew up um as a woman, it wasn't something that was looked at or thought of. I was the first woman in my family to get, you know, a degree and um really want a career. And I've always loved working and that the thoughts and putting things together since I was young. So um, but then you know, I was kind of went down this other journey, became a mom, became a single mom, you know, and I um always had this desire to make the world a better place through I thought it was humanitarianism, but through that journey, I ended up um doing a lot of different things before I opened my own business. So I would say my official business came after motherhood.

Kelly: 5:38

Okay. And you have a blended family. I do. This is something that we harmonized on, paralleled together on. And so um, can you share with the listeners a little bit more about your blended family and um how many kiddos you have? And what does the dynamic of that look like for your house?

SPEAKER_02: 6:01

Yeah, so it's shifted over the years because my current husband and I have been married for 10 years almost. So, you know, it looked a lot different 10 years ago than it did now. A lot of changes have happened, and um, his he has two daughters who are just beautiful, lovely humans, and they're 22 and 18 now. So it looks much different, and they're a little older than my kids. My biological kids are 15 and 13 right now. So there's about a 10-year span between them. So they all kind of had their own place, you know, that they kind of fell into. So that was um really nice in a lot of ways. So there wasn't those competing ages, but then there was the challenge in how do we do something that they all enjoy? So that's a real challenge, yes, yes, a hundred percent. Getting really creative, you know, being very intentional as much as we could. And of course, in hindsight, you look back and go, Oh, I could have done things differently. But I think that's our human nature of like trying to improve, trying to reflect. And I think that's really healthy, but sometimes we can beat ourselves up a little bit too much and just go, okay, well, how can I apply those same principles presently and moving forward and use that information now? So yeah, there's a lot that I think goes with that blending. Totally.

Kelly: 7:28

100%. And to your point about doing this reflection backwards and going, gosh, I wish I would have done it this way or this way or this way. But I think the fact of the matter is, and and maybe we can hash on this just a little bit, but we're all just doing the best that we can in that particular moment with the information and the knowledge that we know to be true in that moment, also. And so um, yeah, we can wholeheartedly do that reflection and go, yeah, I wish I would have done it things a little bit differently. But I think that that's also a friendly reminder that, you know, if you do know better, then there's areas of opportunity, or you just go, I'm doing all that I can to the best capabilities that I can in this particular moment.

SPEAKER_02: 8:16

I also find the best way to make peace with that is to look at themes or recurring kind of trends that come out of that. What was it that I didn't like about how I showed up? What is it that I would change? And how can I apply those themes and update that to where I am now and how I want to show up in the future? You know, was it I was so busy that I wasn't present enough? Yeah. Okay, how does looking present show up for me now? How do I do that better now if I look back 10 years from now? Yeah, and apply that forward because you can't change the past.

SPEAKER_00: 8:57

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 8:58

But you can take all of that and use it, go, okay, like what is my brain trying to tell me that I'm why am I regretting this? Why is this hard? Why am I, you know, wrestling with maybe those feelings that are more um maybe lower negative feelings as I reflect back. And you know, our brain is trying to help us. So it's going, okay, what is it telling me that I need to shift now?

Kelly: 9:21

So I'm a listener listening to this podcast interview with you. And what do they need to know about your current business, your company? And the reason I'm asking it this way is because I do want to tie it into exactly what we're talking through right now, which is human behavior.

SPEAKER_02: 9:43

Oh, so my current business is boardroom breakouts and it's B-O-R-E-D because I, in the corporate space, just always thought meetings and the talk is just so boring. Just the same things over and over. And I'm a highly creative person. I love divergent thinking. So, you know, I've always been more of a challenger in those roles, questioning the way things are, how can we do them better? Which, you know, isn't everyone's favorite. You know, being a challenger. Um, so in my business now, um, I boredom breakouts is designed to help bring awareness for people into not what to think and telling people what to think, but how they think. And so many of us aren't aware of our own brain and how it works. And why that's important now is because we are moving at a faster pace than ever before. And our brain is designed to self-protect, and there's a lot of opportunities now for us to feel a lot of risk. Um, people can record your worst moment and it goes viral within seconds. Um, you know, like there's there's so much at stake for our brains and the risk of now entire job categories going extinct with maybe AI or big mergers, and there's so much fear that we have to adapt and really move through complexity, which our brain doesn't like, our brain really likes certainty. So, understanding how it works and how to work with it is so important right now. But a lot of people didn't like doing that work. It's it's like it sounds overwhelming or people just shut down. So I was like, how do I make this fun? How do I make people want to do this? So I created um a model around experiences. And there's a lot of background to that where I started leading humanitarian trips actually when I was um about 12, 15 years ago, um, international. And I saw just the power that would come through challenging yourself and getting outside of your comfort zone and surrounding yourself with people that think different and move different. And it was so beautiful. And I thought people that I work with at employee benefits at the time, going to all these different um businesses, it's like they need this, but how do I make it more accessible? How do I create something that is really giving these businesses and these people the tools that they need to be more effective together? Because you can learn something for yourself and you can change, but when people around you don't change, it's a lot of energy that you spend trying to bring them along and you know, like dragging and kicking sometimes people. So I thought, if we can do things as groups, I just I love the group dynamics. I love learning alone, but group learning together, the power of community and connection is so important. And I think that's why so many people don't change. So I wanted this business model to give opportunity for yes, individual leaders to do leadership development through really engaging interactive experiences that are all really built on neuroscience of behavior, so that it didn't feel hard. It was just at every opportunity there was areas for growth and those things that normally limit or stop people or hold them back. I've already built that in as much as possible. There's still work for people to do, but really trying to pave that way in a way that's like very fun and bringing other people with on the journey. And so um bored and breakouts does, you know, the retreats that are, you know, a little bit bigger, more extensive, but then I had to narrow it down to make it more accessible. So I have workshops where we'll do like rock climbing or flying trapeze or whitewater rafting or whatever that is. And then my most recent is launching today. And it's a physical space instead of relying on outdoor elements, is really how do I recreate these types of challenges and scenarios indoors and create a space where people can consistently go. It's like working out a muscle at the gym, but it's for your brain and um create this space. That's called power up. My physical space is called power up, but it's still under the Boredom Breakouts brand. But that is the newest thing, and I'm I'm so excited for that.

Kelly: 14:08

You should be excited about that too. I am so thrilled for you and you know, hopped on the opportunity to be able to be a part of that get together and that gathering in your space to celebrate you. It's gonna be wonderful and incredible. Um, something that I want to go back to is the humanitarian work that you did. And um, I do want to come back to exactly what we were just speaking to in the respect of figuring out components of self, right? Like, how do you work personally, your personality, and then combining that work of like, how do I fit this now into a larger setting? So I want to put a plug in that. I want to talk about the humanitarian work that you did. And I want to see if we can tie, I'm sure you've already thought about this too, Sarah, but I want to see if we can tie in the desire that you had to do that humanitarian work and how that is piecing in with what you're doing now, today. Go.

SPEAKER_02: 15:17

I'm I always think of things like prongs, like multi-pronged approach. Usually one prong isn't enough to make me do something, but if it can hit multiple areas, I'm usually like, there it is. That's great. So this is a question that kind of alludes to that. So the humanitarian work that I've done, um, it actually started when I was I was six years old.

SPEAKER_03: 15:40

Really?

SPEAKER_02: 15:41

Yes. My my dad was a pastor and also carpenter. He did like the whole Jesus route thing. Um, my mom homeschooled us. There were six of us kids, and they brought us on a missions trip down to Mexico. And we were supposed to be going to a dump there. And I remember so clearly, one of my most vivid memories was stepping off of this bus, and I was so confused and looking around, and there's just dust everywhere. And it was like, you know, you're coughing and it's like in your eyes. And as the dust settled, I was even more confused because I saw all of these cardboard boxes. I was like, I thought we were going to people's like homes, and it was like where are they? And I just started seeing people coming out of these boxes and realizing that's where they lived. And I remember this moment, and I don't know if it was the universe or you know, God or like my myself, like multiple personalities within me, but something said, like, you're here to change this. And I just felt it so strongly. And to this day, I want to cry when I hear that because I remember it so clearly. And so I've always had this like deep sense of purpose, and I thought that it was gonna be through humanitarian work. So at that time it was missions, but as I went to all of these different places, I saw people that were living in cardboard boxes. I worked with women that had been um human trafficked and raped by 20 men a night, and children that were starving in Ukraine, and they would go down into the sewer pipes to breathe the fumes so that they wouldn't feel hungry. And I will cry every single time I talk about this because I just felt like people can't hear that there's a God that loves them when they can't eat, when they can't breathe, when they can't sleep at night. And all of that, I was like, we've gotta do something more practical. I've always had this like wild pendulum of like logistical and practical and wildly creative. And it always felt like they were at odds. It's been really fun, even like this business and humanitarian feels like they're on different sides of the pendulum, but they blend together so well. So I started leading humanitarian trips, and I would say anyone that wants to come, I don't care what religion you are, as long as you're a good person, you know, you don't have like pedophilia like record, you can come with, and we're going to complete projects for nonprofits that are doing the work in places. A lot of times they were just short of time and money, and we didn't want to come in with our own ideas or our own agendas. How can we support you? Get your organization to the next level. So I worked with a lot of child uh trafficking rescues in Thailand. I had lived there for a year. So I was bringing teams back. And I was like, wow, how can we get businesses to pay for this? Because we had gone to some churches and people in church and tried to like get them to help fund it. And if we didn't do the religion route, they didn't want to. And so I just got really frustrated too of like, I don't want it to always be about money. I want to keep this about the story. So how can I independently help fund these really essential projects that literally get kids like out of the hands of rapists? Like it's like so important to me to figure this out. And I saw business as just such a natural, I think, way for me because I love business. It made a lot of sense financially the way that we're set up in the United States for capitalism. Like, I just thought, well, if I can just create something really cool, I can just start funding these projects. But when I was bringing these groups, I thought, why can't corporate people pay for their leaders and their people to do stuff like this? Because people want something that matters. They don't just want to make, I think, some rich guy richer, right? They want to be a part of something. So I thought, if I could create that, that would be really cool. And so that's how I really started with like these retreats. And I still do lead them. Yeah. It's not as frequently. I'm hoping as I continue to grow to get more businesses that want to fund a project that's a$50,000 project, a hundred thousand dollar project, something like that. And then they send their people because when you go on these experiences, it's all of the leadership skills that you're really looking to develop in your people anyway. And people spend so much money on leadership development and trying to understand behavior change. And this is one of the most powerful things I've ever seen. I've been All around the world. I've worked with all different sizes of companies. This is so powerful. But I had to again figure out a way to make it easier. So as I'm creating these different ways for people to engage in my business, I don't just think about humanitarianism now as the world. I think about it as the people here that I'm working with. We have, I think, a crisis here in connection. We don't know how to connect. We're so lonely. We're trying so hard to, I think, look a certain way and act a certain way and obtain something. And we just lose our humanity, our individualism, and our ability to just be present and love and be free, you know. And so there's just such a beautiful thing that I love about connecting with people that all the people that come into my workshops, it's such a gift to me. And I love meeting every single one, no matter where they're at, because at the end of the day, they're all humans. And I want to make their world better because if they get the tools, if they can be better, they're gonna make the world better. It's that ripple effect, you know. And so I think when I thought about humanitarianism, it was global and it was very specific to these, you know, these people around the world, and that is still, but it's and how do we also empower people to also do that sort of thing? So it's not just me going out there doing it. How do I really build people of strength and of character and of integrity and give them the tools to not just make their businesses better, but then to use that business and the skills that they have to impact the world? So, like that's my big evil plan.

Kelly: 21:36

I love it. It's I mean, you've really thoughtfully thought through the strategy of casting a nut. Yeah, you know, wide.

SPEAKER_02: 21:47

I'm a very integrative thinker. I usually get like frustrated that it would take me so long, I think, to process. And as I've gotten older, I realize there's a reason for that because I'm connecting so many other things, and I don't just want to do something in the moment. I want it to be really like get bigger and more impactful. And that's one of my core values, I think, is empowerment.

Kelly: 22:13

So I love that you actually brought up core values because it was a thought that I had. So tell me a little bit more about foundationally for your business, what some of those core values are. I think I've got an idea, but I would love to hear more from you about what that looks like and how you've structured the business based off of those.

SPEAKER_02: 22:34

I would love to hear what your idea of it is. Love. I just I kind of want to see like what are you picking up that I'm throwing down, girl.

Kelly: 22:43

Um, love for sure. Connection and integration, because I think that you have made such a clear, crystal clear point about as leaders, you can't do this thing alone. And so the more that you can do it around people who also have similar core values too, the more that can be accomplished.

SPEAKER_02: 23:09

Yes, I love that. I think that there we all have very similar core values, but the way that we act when things get hard varies. We go into survival mode, and that's where we really have the breakdowns. Um, I think of, oh, they don't share the same values as me. One of the things I find so exciting and kind of goes to that love word, which a lot of people in business don't like that. I don't care what you call it, but when I am next to a human being and I'm engaging with them, and I understand that what their fears are that are driving that behavior, I'm able to love them at a completely different level. I'm able to maybe not excuse or enable, right? But to see them and meet them with their and validate their humanity and find that starting point and then go, okay, how do we kind of untangle all of this and work our way backwards? Because we do get kind of tangled up in like that fear of all the things, and if it goes wrong and if you get blamed and if people don't want to be around you anymore, do you ever spiral? Oh, you know what I mean? Like you do this and then it like escalates, and all of a sudden you're like homeless and alone, and everyone like no one loves you. Like not even your dog. A hundred percent.

Kelly: 24:26

It's it is um, it's something I I personally actively work through on almost a daily basis. Now, something that I have recognized in the amount of interviews that I have done with amazing women like yourself is how quickly women have been able to shorten that period of time that they go down a toilet bowl or shorten that period of time to be able to make a decision because they've they've gone through the failures. They've literally gone through the failures enough times to understand like I don't, I don't need to like go down this rabbit hole or have this particular thought process. No, I've learned this is the decision I'm making. Whether that means I'm not gonna go down the toilet bowl of negativity or um victimization or making a sound business decision, even right. So those are just kind of across the board some of the things that I've recognized. But that's the big key is how quickly can you shorten that period of time of working through that fear.

SPEAKER_02: 25:36

Yeah, yeah. And even what it's trying to protect you from and thanking it, like your brain is doing what it's supposed to do. Right. But recognizing that good things never happen in isolation, and perfection is the lowest form of existence that there is. And I think that we've tried to especially like place these standards on women of what you should be and what perfect really is. And that is by, in my opinion, designed to keep you very small because you cannot grow, like, think about any time in your entire all of nature, all of humanity, when you start learning how to walk, you fall. A lot of times that's expected when you learn how to ride a bike. Yep, usually people fall over and screw their name. There's like one or two freaks probably listening to this. They're like, I got it on my first try. And yes, but you know, God bless the principle. You know, learning basketball. How many shots will you learn how to cook? How many cookies or things do you burn? You know, like anytime you're doing something new. And somehow we've like made this like crazy idea that like, oh, you're supposed to get everything right right away, otherwise we judge each other and we criticize and we, oh, I should have known better. How should you have known better? Like it's right, it's just messy. We need to, as humans, go, if you're trying to like live in that box of perfection, I don't think that perfection is like a 10 at the top. I think perfection is a zero at the bottom. Like I really think that we've placed it in a comp the completely wrong spot because I think you you don't grow at all if you stay in that box of perfection. So even doing something badly, I think is is better than not doing it at all. As long as you learn. I'm not saying go out there and like just, you know, don't be. I love excellence. I want to do things very well, but I think we all have that drive. Like that's in us to to create and to do something better and to reflect, right? But like you can't stay in that that space of perfection.

Kelly: 27:38

It's interesting. This is um in doing a reflection here in this very moment, real time. I have always stated, and sometimes I'll go like I'm really silly about this, but like recovering perfectionist, recovering people pleaser. Um, I will never forget working at a daycare center, and the woman who owned this particular daycare, um I'm pretty confident that this came from her mouth. But she was like, We're not striving perfor for perfection. We are striving for excellence. And I think about that now, and I go, interesting. Very interesting, because there is no such thing as perfection. There is something to your point about like working through things, taking that baby step, perhaps falling and working through that so that the next go-around, there's a little bit more excellence in how you approach taking that step. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 28:52

And I think like one of the things, especially as women, I think we're not afraid of it, more so, I think, than uh typic genderizing very stereotypically. Obviously, there's people on both sides, but um, the expectations, I think, by society, by by different standards on men and women are categorically different. And women, we we have this, I think, desired for connection more so. And we don't want to hurt or affect or impact the people around us. So I think when we think about messing up, it's usually not even that it hurts us, it's that we don't want to hurt someone else. And we take on responsibility for their feelings and their emotions and trying to keep the peace. And there's just so many times that I think women wait for permission to do something as well, because it's like we want permission in case it goes wrong, you know, that someone's not gonna hate us, someone's not gonna turn against us because that sense of connection, it's it's so important. It's what's caused us to survive as a species for thousands of years. Like it's a very real thing, but knowing when it goes too far, you know, is is so important and where that line is, and just recognizing that there is a line.

Kelly: 30:10

Totally. I'm like in the moment, real time, again, kind of doing this reflection of conversations I've had with my husband about this very thing. And I'll I'll refrain from sharing the particular circumstance circumstance and who was involved, but it was around like a response to a particular situation, somebody else, and my knee-jerk reaction to want to um like protect that person and lean into their enabling and their victimization in that particular moment. And that's the people pleaser, and that's also like wanting to continue to maintain that connection with said person, right? But also, like he had to give me this friendly reminder of hey, listen, you are not responsible for how said person is responding in this situation, and there are feelings and their emotions that are frankly unwarranted.

SPEAKER_02: 31:15

Right. And so many times, like we don't realize how we impact people. There's been times that people have given me feedback, and I'm so thankful when people do. Now, sometimes you can take it with a grain of salt, right? But sometimes you don't realize how often something can get misunderstood. Now, it might be them misunderstanding it, yeah, but I love when they come to me and we're able to talk through it, and then I can see like, is there something that was in me that I can check myself on?

Kelly: 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 31:47

And it's so I'm so grateful because that's the only opportunities we really get from people to grow from the outside. And if we don't give people that opportunity, we're really taking away their ability to look at themselves, to challenge themselves and for them to grow. And that's where that enabling piece comes in, where it's uncomfortable sometimes doing it. But I think sometimes when we we build it up in our heads and it's not actually a big deal when you actually talk to someone and you're like, hey, I really love you, and I see all of this greatness in you. I'm seeing something get in the way of that. And and here's how it's showing up so many times, like nine out of ten, people respond really well. And that one out of ten, they might just need more time. They might, yeah, you know, they might not take it well, they might, you know, disagree, and that's okay. Yeah, but that's not on you as long as you're doing it in love. For sure. Yeah.

Kelly: 32:45

That word love. I know. I love it. Speaking of love, you had the absolutely cutest post story. It was a story on Instagram, and it was around um you and your spouse and spousal support in this particular moment in time. And I said, Oh my gosh, Sarah, I can't wait to talk about this. And I feel like this is just the most opportune time. And so I do want to talk about what has your village of support looked like as you are building. I feel like you're in build mode right now, and it's so incredible to watch it and have not a front row seat, right? Because I'm viewing it through the lens of social media, um, but uh a different kind of seat in the auditorium because you know, we know one another and we're getting to know one another. So how has how has the auditorium looked in rallying around you for your for support?

SPEAKER_02: 33:54

Well, first I want to say I use social media, I think, different than a lot of people. Totally. I very much value um transparency. I don't have a lot of pretense. Like what you see is what you get. And I think that there's a lot of ways we try to control the way people perceive us or look at us, and um there's something to that, and I understand why people do it, but with social media, one thing that I've always tried to do is just be super real and give people a window into my life, not for me to be seen, but for people to see the process of what it looks like to get kicked in the teeth and to be down in the moment, not looking back like, oh yeah, it was really hard getting through it, but here I am, you know. Oh, and I see people share it in hindsight. And I'm like, I want to know those moments. Like, what was that like when you're crying in bed at midnight because you just feel like you can't do it again another day, or where you're questioning everything and people don't get it, and you feel like you're the most misunderstood or psychotic person in the entire world? Like, there's just so many moments that are there's the downs and the ups, and so many people just share the ups. And I don't think that the ups are as good without the downs. You need the downs. You have to go to that level of challenge and of wrestling with things to go, how do I want this to look different? How can I approach this? We can't avoid those downs. And I think social media does a really bad job of avoiding the downs because they don't want to bring people down. But I think people can handle it and they want to know those challenges.

Kelly: 35:42

It breeds a different kind of authenticity. Yeah. Right? And you're you're actually framing this out in such a nice way that it's it's reminding me that it's okay to do that because my gosh, I can think back over the last year, two years, the the genesis of this podcast, and how I missed opportunities to really share how actually crummy it was going into starting this podcast. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so I think that in this moment it it's beautiful for the listeners to understand that very thing. I oftentimes bring this topic up in a way of like, talk to me about your peaks and your valleys, like what has been your darkest moment and all of that. And it is always going through those valleys, going through the mud or whatever you want to call it, that allows you to be able to get back up to the mountaintop, so to speak, proverbial mountaintop.

SPEAKER_02: 36:53

So and I think it's like loving each phase too, and not rushing it. Sometimes we try to rush the valleys to get out of it, but there's so much to be learned in those. That's where I've always had the most growth. Actually, one of the so in power up, I have these four pillars in my curriculum, and it's challenge, courage, connection, and consistency. They all happen to start with C. I didn't do it on purpose, but um, sometimes the universe just you know brings things and they line up aesthetically. Yeah, I love that. Um, so I think like that challenge, we some it's it takes energy and it takes time. And we are in a society that does it values busyness and does not prioritize slow. But sometimes that challenge is like if you can slow down and embrace it and rise to it and meet it where it's at and really go, all right, little motherfucker. Like, what am I gonna learn? There it is.

SPEAKER_03: 37:53

There's gonna learn this.

SPEAKER_02: 37:58

Oh, I just love a good F word. Um, like no, but really, like I have this no-lose mentality in I'm not very stubborn, but I am kind of like high strung, I guess, in that competitive?

Kelly: 38:10

Competitive?

SPEAKER_02: 38:11

Not at all. No, only with my only with myself. Yeah. No, no, no. I don't, nope, not competitive at all. I love seeing people do their thing. Like I am like the biggest like fan of people just running in their lane. And I think so many times there's not even competition. It's like it, it's everyone is here to shine so brilliantly and so differently. Like I love watching people just light up in their own special way, and it should look different, it should be unique. You shouldn't fit in, you shouldn't look like everyone else. And so many times we walk into a room and think, oh, I don't look like everyone else. You're not supposed to. Like, you're you know, and I think we need to change that. What do I bring here? What can I offer that is different that can elevate this room? Not in a way of like, you need to come in and you know, just share and do whatever and dominate, but how can I support? How can I uplift? How can I challenge? How can I hold space? How can I make the people around me better through my unique gift? And I think that is so special. And that's what people have done for me, going back to the challenge and community and trying to find a book. Okay.

Kelly: 39:24

Um, and I I'm drawing a blank on the author of it. Um my gosh. Well, now I'm totally drawing a blank and I feel kind of silly because it's it's the best book ever. Well, it's a it's it's about the essence of like giving versus receiving all the time. And I feel like it's perfect for this. I have it in the other room. Okay. All my good books and all the books that I'm about to read are in our room. Okay, Sanctuary, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02: 39:53

But I love it. No, but I think it is so true. We again, society, I I love big pictures. And then how do we bring it down to the individual and how our response is? So I love the contrast of the two. So that's what I look at from a behavior. How do we act individually? How do we act in groups? And then what does that mean on like a large scale? And I am by no means an expert in this. Like I got my community college degree in marketing, and then I got my bachelor's degree in business administration. So never in my journey did I think psychology or anything like that, but I'm so fascinated by it. And I've had the amazing opportunity of being front row to people through literal peaks and valleys. The hardest moments because of the challenges and adventures that I'd bring them on, completely outside of their comfort zone, no comforts around them. That's the truest mirror that you get. So I've gotten to see the truest, I think, essence of people in those moments. And it's so um amazing to be able to see what emerges and be able to put that together into like that bigger picture. So um, where was I going with that when I was talking about like small and big? I was trying to give some context to the how I kind of have this lens now.

Kelly: 41:16

We're talking about Well, the the start of it was actually around what does the the village of support look like? Who for you?

SPEAKER_02: 41:27

Well, it's like I I'm like trying to like go like give people some background because I don't want anyone to think that I'm like a psychologist or anything like that, but I love human behavior.

Kelly: 41:36

Um I do too, by the way. I'm fascinated, particularly particularly in the essence of women, right? And how it how we fundamentally change when we become moms and fundamentally change when we decide to go the distance, so to speak, into entrepreneurship. And and really for me, I was like, gosh, I wonder if there is, I think we might have talked about this on the phone too, or uh Zoom phone, I can't remember. But what are the commonalities between the two? The fundamental changes that that happen to the brain when we become mothers, matrescence, and then also when we decide entrepreneurship is what it's gonna look like for us, yeah. But that's that's just me in terms of like human behavior and how the woman's brain operates.

SPEAKER_02: 42:35

Yeah. So yeah, I think that's kind of we don't have to talk about that much. Let's let's do this. I like this. I like this. So going back to that, like yes, large group and then individual, um, again, as like a society, we've placed a lot of collective problems and challenges on individuals and told individuals that this is your job to do this, you should be able to do this. Why can't you do this? You're broken, you're not good enough. When really this is um, we weren't meant to do it alone. We were not designed to. We crave human connection and we because we need each other. And so many times, even self-made people, it's it's through a society that was collective, it's through inventions that were collective, like from so many different people. And so we lose sight of that collectiveness because we have such an individualistic um mindset. And I think that there's so much power in that for marketers because they're like, look at you, you're missing this thing. Hire me or buy this, and we'll help fix it. So then I think that marketing becomes like your village instead of human connection, like you're buying solutions instead of like that wrestling with other people. And I think that there's a lot that comes through that. But one thing that I've been so, oh my gosh, so I will, I am a crier, just so you know, because let it pour, girl. I love it. Like I'm I'm a feeler. I I'm so grateful for people, and it's not just like a couple of people. Anytime that you engage with someone, you have a conversation, even if you don't remember it later, because your brain will filter things out, you make these little mindset shifts. You have you make these micro adjustments, and I think it is so freaking beautiful that every person I've ever talked to has made me and this company into what it is. And they might not they'll likely not even know it or think that they had that, but they did because we had a conversation in some way, and it either reaffirmed some sort of like brain pattern or it challenged my way of thinking. And I've had so many of those that I just think are so beautiful, but then I've had people that have also gone and I see something in you, Sarah. I love this, I want to support this. And how can I help? And I think that's a really hard question for a lot of women to answer, right? Like, and the biggest thing I think I've ever told people is when I have my bad days, I just need you to tell me that I can do it. Because it's like we have a lot of good days and everything's great, but it's those days that it's like, I think I posted what you were talking about, that that post that I did about community is um don't find people um that you know, think you can do it, like find people that won't let you give up. When there is something that is you're so passionate about, it doesn't really, you know, matter what it is as long as I think it's it's a good thing. Yeah, it benefits people. There's there's a reason you're here. There's a gift that you have to bring to the world and find people that see that gift. And I got like even this morning, text messages, the most beautiful and encouragements throughout as I'm taking big risks and I'm like, is this gonna work? Am I gonna fall flat on my face? And if I fall flat on my face, I'll learn. Like, I don't believe in failure, but I believe in like hard lessons. And when you're doing something that hasn't been done before, like there's no other like leadership development places out there creating these kinds of spaces and like using fun and challenge and like all the things that I'm doing and bringing together, it's different. And I'm like, I have no idea if it's gonna fly. I don't know if people want anything different. They might just want the same speakers coming in and talking to people, you know. No, I don't my gut tells me no. My gut tells me no, but people think they want something and then it's like, oh, it's changed, it's different, you know, and that that stops people sometimes. So when I'm doing things like this, my community that has seen that thing in me and goes, I know what you're doing. And they know it's not just about business, it's about making the world a better place. And that's what they talk about. They don't talk about usually the business itself. Oh, this particular thing you're doing, oh, this retreat. They're like, this is what you're doing. You're making the world a better place, you're giving people tools, you're you're healing, you're helping heal people and love people and doing these things that to me are like my values. It's not about the business, it's not about the thing. And those are my people that see me. They see the me behind everything else. But I would say the biggest support that I had and alluded to and that probably not even alluded, I'm very direct, um, spoken to was my spouse, my husband Scott, who um I don't even, I don't even know. I must have done something in another life that was really good to deserve him. But um, he came into my life when we were actually probably at some of the most challenging low spaces. I had recently been through divorce as a single mom of like a one and a three-year-old that had a, you know, I had a very religious background. Like I never thought divorce, like I was like, it's can't be that hard to stay married, you know, and uh, you know, you find yourself in space.

Kelly: 47:56

Like, yeah. And I marriages, I mean, it's it's the most beautiful sacred thing, and also it requires two very different people with very different mindsets to come together and unoni unionize and work cohesively together. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 48:17

That's not always easy. It's not, but I do think that there's people that it's easier with than others. Yes. Yes. I've now had, you know, a total of two husbands, um, and very different experiences, you know. And so when Scott came in my life, um, I had always kind of this feeling, and I don't know where it came from, but I feel like we feel this way a lot. And you can let me know if you do or not. I felt like I was a burden. Like my needs, my essence, my my minus, my my uniqueness, the way I see the world is is challenging and it's multicolored and it's different. And I always felt like it was exhausting for some people, or it was too much for people, or they just didn't want it. And he was probably the first person that articulated to me, um, I'll tell you at the moment, that I it it actually changed the way that I saw people because of how much it impacted me. I had a three and a one-year-old, and Scott is a nurse by trade, by the way. He's he's so loving, he's so wonderful, and it's so true to his personality to just take care of people and love them. And I had a one-year-old, a three-year-old. I was a full-time single mom. You know, their dad couldn't have them alone. So, like, I mean, it was like zero to a hundred juggling all these things. And I remember going to the frozen movie. It had come out. Scott and his girls were going, and I went with my kids, and my daughter Ari was one, and she just didn't want to sit still for the movie. Yeah. And I was like, I was so like trying to be present with my son because you don't have a lot of these moments, and she's squirming, and I was like, I think I'm gonna have to leave. Can you watch my son? You know, in here, and I stepped out, and my one-year-old, and she's fussing and you know, crying and all this stuff, and I'm just like just holding her and just trying to love her. And Scott comes out and he goes, Why don't I take her? And you go back in and enjoy the movie. And I was like, No, like I don't want to be a burden to you, you know. And I I said something like that, like, no, no, no, you go, you enjoy. Like, this is my child, my problem. Like, I don't want to disrupt you. And he goes, I'm just so thankful that you're in my life and I get to be a part of this. And he holds my baby and he's hugging her like he, like she's just the most precious thing in the world. And he goes, Thank you for trusting me. Thank you for being letting me be a part. And I just would, oh my gosh, like no one had ever treated my children like they were a gift, like that. You know, like, yes, when they're babies, babies, babies are cute, babies are a gift, but like, you know, the screaming child, no one's ever looked at my screaming child and been like, Thank you for letting me be a part of this shitty moment. You know, but it's like, and he approached life that way. And I just thought, man, what if I can just meet people when they're in their lowest and go, thank you for letting me see this. Thank you for letting me be a part of this. And I just think that is so beautiful. And so he's been on this journey, and we both start over with like nothing. And we've continued to take risks when like it doesn't look good on paper. And I'm like, I have this passion. He met me when I was, you know, a humanitarian. I was actually living in Thailand when we first started dating. So like he knew what he was getting into, but not, you know, like there's no really predicting what I'm gonna do next. And so um, I applaud his bravery, but you know, it's like, okay, now I'm gonna launch this and do this, and I don't know what the end product looks like, but I know that there's something there and I've gotta follow it. And we've I you know, we've gone through periods where like I'm not working and taking paycheck, I should say. I'm working, but not taking a paycheck, and you know, doing these different adventures where he's gotta take the kids for a week because I'm gone. And you know, he's jugging, juggling all these things, and every single time without fail, like sometimes he'll he'll challenge and okay, we'll have these conversations about where we're at, but without fail, it's not you can't do it. It's how can we figure this out? How can we make this work? And there's been times where I was like, I'm broken, I I don't know what to do, I can't do it. And he's always, you got this, like Sarah, you were made for this, you've got this. And he's the person that truly never let me quit. So I'm gonna cry again. But having that kind of person in your life, this like unwavering belief in your goodness, in what you bring to the world. And yes, it's like I have a business mind, and I this is in a business context, but think about that for each person, for you, like Kelly, what you bring to the world, someone that just unwaveringly is like you bring something so amazing, and to cheer, like not just cheer you on, but like in the hard moments go, it doesn't matter what it's gonna cost us to sacrifice for this. And he has sacrificed over and over again, like the number of things we have been through together. You know, like our our like anniversary trip. I took him like on a recon to Alaska and we hiked a hundred miles testing out all of these different pathways, and we slept like in the back of our car in like a cemetery because it's in the middle of nowhere. It's like quiet.

Kelly: 53:24

It better be quiet.

SPEAKER_02: 53:25

Like he has like been there without fail and not like begrudgingly, but looking at it like this is an adventure and we're in it together. And so um, that's just one example of like that. That's how a marriage to me should look. That's what a true partnership is, but that really set the bar too for like how I treat people and how I want people to interact with me. And um, that's what community is. And so if I can't find it, how can I do this for other people? How can I keep creating this because someone did it for me, they showed me, and continue to show me? And that makes me a better person. And how can I pay them back? I can't, but I can pay it forward and I can keep doing this, not just for him, but for other people. I think that's what so much of my business is about. How do I do this for other people?

Kelly: 54:12

That was so beautiful.

SPEAKER_02: 54:14

Thank you. I'm trying not to cry myself. It's beautiful, and I just think just take a minute and just like the beauty of humanity, the beauty of the connection, the beauty of what we can accomplish together. Yes, it's it is beautiful.

Kelly: 54:34

You are in essence an empathetic person. You know, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 54:44

I think I think I think sometimes um I don't I wouldn't like label myself that way. I think that I I connect with other people, that connection, and I think that there's a lot of love and compassion, and I think that you know, empathy could be a word, but I think when it comes down to it is just humanity, you know, that that human that shared humanity. And I don't know if there's one word or many words to describe it because it's so multifaceted. Yeah, and I think that's where I like to go is like I want all of the words, all of the emotions, all of the connection, whether it's empathy in the moment, whether it's compassion, whether it's joy, whether it's sorrow, whatever that is.

Kelly: 55:29

Well, whatever that particular category of words are, it's it's you to a core, like at a soulful level. When you as a six-year-old going back to that moment, stepping off of the bus and and having that like those words spoken over you, right? And and then feeling it in your core, like this is what I'm meant for. I am meant to change what is happening here. I I can just envision that all of what you have been doing up to this point is just building the foundation for something bigger to to sort of springboard to what does it look like? Like you're working here domestically because to your point, there's a lot of work to be done here domestically, here in the United States. And if you can make a shift, even just here dynamically within the Twin Cities setting, right, to then be able to allow that to springboard globally, right? Right. You will be favored.

SPEAKER_02: 56:50

You will be favored. I think again it goes back to that connection piece. I can't do it alone. So, how do you get people on board? How do you get them ready? How do you help people? I think feel even these things that are sometimes hard to feel when you talk about empathy. It's like sometimes it's painful, sometimes you cry a lot, you know? Yeah, but I think that's okay too. Because it means that you're alive. And how beautiful of a gift is that that we get to exist right now.

Kelly: 57:18

It was so fun, Sarah. I just want to take a moment to recognize what you're speaking to and allow myself to sit in it for a moment too. As you are coming into the house for your interview, and I'm asking you, how are you feeling, Sarah? Because today's a big day, not because of this interview, but because you are you're sharing this passion with a lot of people, and you're like, I'm just so happy to be alive, and what a blessing. And I'm like, Yes, yes, because I think it's so easy in those moments to to go, yeah. I I mean, yeah, things are crazy, and I've got all of these other things that I've I've got to focus on, and the details, and this and that, and it's an event, and so there's a lot that goes into putting on an event too. But you're like, nope. I mean, yes, I'm sure you're thinking about those things, but you're like, I'm here, I'm present, I'm in this moment, I'm doing this interview with you. I was literally like a week before going, hey, are you sure? Like, I just put two and two together that like both of these things are happening on the same day. Do you need to reschedule? And you're like, nope, let's do it. Let's do it, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02: 58:36

I believe in alignment. And then they do like sometimes you just overthink things, right? And sometimes it gets me into trouble. I'm a time optimist and I'm like, well, you know, that probably wasn't the best idea, but that was fun. That was a fun challenge. Yeah.

Kelly: 58:50

Alas, here we are.

SPEAKER_02: 58:52

Well, I think it is, you know, to that point, like there is something inside of me that's so grateful. Um, because we tend to think of success or happiness, or I don't know, whatever word it is that you're trying to achieve in terms of big or a specific thing or a specific moment. And I truly look at everything in life. If you look at trends through time, there's so many, like I talked about, those micro moments of with people that change us and make us into who we are. If we can really appreciate the little things in the present, that makes the whole journey such a joy. Such a like, no matter how hard it is, no matter how many details are floating around, no matter what I'm facing, like bringing yourself to present and truly showing up and connecting and making the best out of every opportunity. You literally never lose. You don't have, I mean, yes. Have like bad days, you have hard days, but like you don't, you know what I mean? Like, right, it's so it just changes the way that you view the world and the moments and use everything as fuel, you know. And I think those every day just kind of blends together sometimes, even for myself. Like, I'm not like this all the time. Sometimes I have hard days, you know. But as much as possible to go, what does today bring? There's something I think so special that can happen in every single day with every single person and every conversation. I think it's just magic that we get to communicate to each other and experience life together and like taste delicious things like coffee and chocolate and like I don't know, like how cool is the world and life, you know? And like I just think sometimes we take it for granted.

Kelly: 1:00:50

I love your attitude. It's seriously like you're talking about those micro moments, and I'm like, this is just what I needed in this particular moment in my life, is to understand just a little bit on how to be more present. So I want to shift gears in this conversation about that intersection of momming, motherhood, and what you're doing with business. Because it's beautiful, right? It's also challenging. And talking about this word being like present, the word present, what have you experienced as you're building your business and how that folds into motherhood and the challenges around being present, like what has it forced you to do in order to be a more present mom? But also understand, like, I have to be present in my business too. Like, this is the conundrum sometimes. Yeah. So talk talk myself and the listeners through like what that has looked like for you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:00

Well, I think that it always looks different, and kids will go through different phases and they have different needs, and then your business will go through different phases and have different needs, and so it's a flux. And I think sometimes again, our brain loves certainty. So we try to like, oh, if it looks like this, that's that's what I like. When really I consider kind of like guardrails. I'm doing this thing, and like oh, my heart pulls because like my kiddo, I see them struggling, and I'm like regretting going, gosh, the last couple weeks have been really busy, and my heart is like pulling right now. I'm like, I need to rein that side in. Like, I hit a guardrail. And it's you know, I mean, we'll we'll eventually ask my kids when they're a little older, like, how was it? They're probably gonna be like, it was a clusterfuck. There it is, there it is. Um, but you know, one thing that I've always tried to share with the kids is it's not about business, it's not about making money. This is about using everything that we have to make the world a better place. And so they've actually gone on humanitarian trips with me. They lived with me in Thailand, so they've seen people that live in nothing. They've seen people that have nothing to eat. Actually, my daughter recently did a fundraiser at her school. Um, there was a food drive, and she heard some teammates being like, This is just so dumb. Why can't they just get a job? And she's 13 and she has autism, by the way. So she's like, she's like, she thinks very like no, very structured. She's like, this is wrong. Why would they say that? And she's like, I want to show them that it's easy to help people. So she raised like a thousand dollars and we bought an entire van full of food. And you know, it's just so fun to see those moments in them because they've seen places in the world that don't have and they've seen just this big picture that's so much bigger than them. And so my hope is that they understand the demand on my time, but I also don't want them to feel like they're responsible for things that they shouldn't be responsible for as children, right? Like where they their needs aren't met because mom is meeting someone else's needs. Sure. And I think that that honestly has bled into some of especially like my biological son, Justin's like a little bit of that, you know, mentality for him of like, oh, it's I don't want to bother mom because she's busy. And so when there is something that they need, I try to do everything possible to drop whatever it is so that they know at the end of the day, when you really need me, I'll be there. But then also there's moments that I'm like, they didn't ask me, yeah, but I need to be like I feel this, I know this. And sometimes, you know, you drift to one side of the road and you drift to the other side. And I think of that as guardrails instead of being like, oh, I'm not doing it right. It's like, nope, this is my reminder to, you know, kind of rein it back this way or rein it back that way. So I don't know if that helps um at all, but that's that's how I've um I think envisioned the parenting journey and momhood.

Kelly: 1:05:09

I resonate with us. This is and and I'll just speak to it in the context of the podcast, right? So I have all of you women come here and I talk about how my job as the host is to keep you within the guardrails. So I totally I yeah, I I totally resonate with that. It's like, okay, we have we have our focus here of kind of talking through motherhood and entrepreneurship and how do I kind of keep it within that, right? So I this is something that I can parallel with and get back behind. And the thing that stuck out to me when you were talking through this, Sarah, is that that little heart tug, the the tug that you feel. I don't think there's a mom who I have interviewed or a mom that's listening right now that doesn't understand that. Like that's a speak that they understand. The heart tug that, like, mmm, something doesn't feel quite right in this moment, whether it's because of a decision that I've made or it's something that I'm I'm seeing within my children right now, that's sort of residual impact. How do we rein it back in? How do we get back within the guardrails and get get the get the train back on the tracks as well? I mean, you can think of all of the metaphoric ways to I love metaphors. Let's talk with you more. But and I also know that there's listeners that are going, they're shaking their heads as they're listening to this. Like, yes, that's that's spot on. So thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. I I wrote something down on here, and now I can't even read my own handwriting because I apparently was not um writing it in a proper way. But I think a direction that I want to take is talk to me about a day in the life of Sarah with her business. Oh.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:12

Well, I don't know that I ever have two days that are the same, which is one of the things that I love about being an entrepreneur. Um, I was in a lot of different types of roles. Um, you know, just like out of high school, I did factory, night shift, I did an admin, I was in a HVAC company, and I ended up doing some sales, and then I was in um, you know, healthcare doing like office work and everything in between. And I used to kind of get frustrated with myself that I couldn't pick just one thing. Like I have a brother that knew from the time he was like seven that he wanted to be a pilot, and I have another brother that joined the army, and like they have these defined industries and these defined roles, and I loved all of it. And I think that goes to like if you haven't picked up on that by me, I love everything, like there it's so cool, and I'm fascinated by it. So it was it was as I did these like different jobs, I would come in, I would like streamline things, and I'd find myself with extra time and be like, what else do you have for me? But then I get kind of bored, just super easy, and people didn't know what to do with me. So I was one of those people that probably I don't know if I ever stayed somewhere longer than like two or three years at a job because I just no, I don't mean anything bad necessarily. I just want to try something new. And um sometimes life circumstances, you know, becoming single mom, well, that changed how I had to show up and you know, different things. So it's been it's been a winding road in that regards. And so I love being an entrepreneur in that there's always something new to tackle. There's always a new challenge, and actually that's I think the challenge a lot of entrepreneurs probably have is like we have all the ideas, but which one we could do a lot of things, but which one should we do? So my biggest challenge has been what should I do today? What does that look like? But I until really the last six months didn't know what I wanted this final product of what I was building to look like. I knew I had the retreats, but I had to make it more accessible. I knew I had the workshops, but I didn't have my like full curriculum developed. I didn't want to develop a curriculum, just no one else was looking at experiences like this and applying it in this way. I wanted to partner with other um leadership development experts and use their curriculum and my experiences because I'm really good at the experience part. And they just saw experiences or like the activities as like a fun side thing and not as like the thing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:43

And to me, it's like it's the thing. It's when your brain is the most open to being rewired, it's when it's taking in the most information, it's when you're actually connecting things faster, like like 20 times faster than just thinking about it or like learning about it when you're actually doing your brain is in such a different space. So there's just it's like to me, it was the this amazing opportunity, and no one saw it like that. So it's like, well, shit, now I gotta write a curriculum. So then, you know, that was for months that was like, okay, I guess I'm making a curriculum. Like, what is a curriculum? Like, you know, like okay. So, you know, it's been just such a winding journey, and then creating this space where I was like, this is this is like the final kind of piece on what I've been looking for. But I think after this, you know, I I believe my purpose is to create businesses that don't exist that make the world a better place. Like that's I think like that overarching who Sarah is and what I do. And so I think that will always continue to be different because I love ready. I love creating, I love building all of those things. And so my goal is again to keep doing this in a lot of different ways. So my job currently, right now, a day in the life, um, as I've brought this all together, like what does this look like? You know, working with how do I position this in the market? How do I bring this to like LND leaders and C-suite and HR and make this something that they resonate with, where they see how it actually gives them the results that they're looking for, even though it doesn't look like what they're looking for, you know, like currently with their concept of what leadership development is, is um very linear, you know, and and it's very uh same. And like like showing how this is so powerful and you know, trying to like position it in a way that's like different, but not too different, because that's scary. And so a lot of it's been like that branding and positioning, and then the other part has been that curriculum. Like, what do these sessions look like in this space? And how do I not just I teach them, how do I teach other people to teach them? Because I want this to be scalable. I envision this to be like, you know, a lifetime or an anytime fitness, like a gym where you can go to a local one and you can work out your body, but like teams can go and work out together. They can work out their brains, they get stronger together. It's not all physical movement, some of it's like art challenges, sometimes it's improv. Sometimes it's like there's all these different creative spaces within it. There's different stations that I create, and they're all different, and they all bring more awareness to um your brain patterns and how they work and what kind of um like disruptions there are or like cognitive distortions that you do, or like you fall into these like brain like ruts. Yes. And how you can like because you have to understand how your brain works, and then not just you, but your team, so that you can work better. Teams should be a greater sum than the components, individual components. But so many times that's not the case in corporate today. So many times when you get a team together because of dynamics, they're actually less effective together than they are like alone when done incorrectly.

Kelly: 1:12:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:00

Done correctly, you are more impactful. You're truly collaborating, and you're not just like kind of being nice and doing your work on your own and then bringing it together. You're actually making each other better, building on what each other has done and enhancing it. So you should be so much greater. But the view and the perception of the majority, if you look at any studies that are done in the workplace around teamwork, people feel like they get more work done alone and better work done alone.

Kelly: 1:13:32

Yeah, I can feel that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:33

Yeah, so they're seeing like team as like more of a detractor as a slowdown instead of as an enhancer. So yeah, it's it's been like creating like what are these sessions in my space that bring that awareness to self, but then also integrating it into the team. So my goal with every session is that a team that comes in leaves not with a to-do list, but they leave already having done something together so that there's not that awkward like first try at work. Like, you know, it's like someone's actually facilitating. You practiced it there within that safe setting. All other teams practice. You look at sports teams, athletic teams, military, they drill and do rehearsals, and they all have their part. They're not like, oh, I gotta do it all. Yeah, like this is my role, this is what I like, and I have your back in this area and I have your back over here. And we don't have that same mentality with corporate teams. We like, I'll stab you in the back. I don't got your back sometimes, you know, which people don't think that. But when fear comes and when stress is on and things are on the line, yeah, that's where you start getting people like we started this conversation with acting in ways that don't align with their values because it's survival mode. And so teaching teams like how to actually go through hard things, uncertainty, um, change, challenge together in a way where you should, if you're with a team, you should be unstoppable. Yeah. Like with the right team, like there's no match for a team that is actually aligned. There's nothing stronger than a group of people that has each other's backs.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:11

Totally.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:11

So, how do we create that and um in this in this context? So that's really been my challenge for bringing power up to life and what I've been developing and working on. But next phase will be you know, how do I bring other people in and teach them how to facilitate this? What are the elements that they're looking for, those different moments, and how do they handle different situations? And so that's you're just thinking about that scalability, yeah, and then building. So yeah.

Kelly: 1:15:38

Interesting. That's exactly where my brain was going is okay, that's gonna require scaling for you and bringing people on, and then practicing the very thing that you're doing with these um, you called it LD learning and development leaders, right? And and bringing that back into the corporate setting. Yeah. So you're gonna be practicing that very thing with like bringing people on, right?

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:03

Well, and it's nice that I've had like a little bit of this already with retreats. We, you know, initially thought that was we're just gonna do retreats and we were gonna scale that. And we had different partners that would bring on different teams and you know, for us to lead. And so we were really ready to scale. I had everything like ready for people to like learn in different ways. How do we teach people certain elements? I had, you know, built-out training and all kinds of things. So I've had the beautiful opportunity of already doing that in a leader, like in my own business before, before actually hitting pause and going, I feel like this needs a shift. We have to make this more accessible.

Kelly: 1:16:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:43

Um, we I want to keep meeting people in a different way in in work, and what does that look like? So I've had that opportunity and it's beautiful and it's challenging and it's hard, and it actually makes you better because it forces you to think about things a little bit more clearly and differently. So I'm excited for it. I'm excited for the challenge of it to come back to that space because I really enjoyed having a team before. But as I really skinnyed down over the last two years to figure out the curriculum and what this model looks like and really focus, it's been more of like that solo entrepreneur. So I'm I'm looking forward to a team again. When did when did you start the business? So I actually bought into my brother's business that was like a lifestyle brand. He made homemade longboards, but what he actually did was bring people together for shared moments and connection. He's always been a lot more of what I would call a gatherer. People would follow him like lemmings. I don't know if you ever played Lemmings on the computer growing up. It was like these like little guys that would like all follow each other and then like you'd put one off the leader off the cliff, and then they'd all just like hop off the cliff, like pile on top of each other. Oh my gosh. I very much envisioned him to be like the lead loving. Like he will do things and people be like, it's so cool. And I'm like, cool. Like he he just has this gift of bringing people together. He's got this. You don't track your eye. No, no, no, no, compare. If you, I'm not a comparison person, but if you compared us, it's a very different gift. Yeah. And um, and so I love that he would just bring people together, but sometimes maybe not know what to do with them. And I'm like, I know what to do with people when you get them together, and like I'm gonna put them to to use, to work, to connect, to like all these things. So I bought into that in I think it was like 2018 or 2019. Okay. And so we shifted that business model into the retreats, and we did that for several years through I think 2022. And as we did that, we were just doing, you know, the humanitarian trips where just anyone could join, um, and also some other types of trips just in different places, Costa Rica, Colorado, Montana, whatever, um, and do different types of trips, like maybe it was snowmobiling, maybe it was rock climbing, maybe it was, you know, Costa Rica. We're doing all these different things. Um, but then we'd also do friend groups. And but my goal was corporate groups because I, again, have always just been very drawn to business. So I was trying to grow this corporate side under this overarching like brand. And my brother, again, part of the reason he's so cool is because he doesn't do the norm. He's always like outside of it. So he doesn't love the corporate model or setting. And that was a very big challenge for him. But I loved it and I was kind of growing it, but then there was a lot of confusion around like, what do you guys do? And when we had these corporate teams, I felt like it was it wasn't structured enough. And then even trying to teach people that scalability thing, how we treat these groups versus these groups, because it was very different mindsets from a behavioral standpoint.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:19:44

And so then as I kept doing that, I just finally went to my brother and said, I think that I need to really go down this corporate road. And that's when I launched Boredom Breakouts, it was in 2023, March, March 23rd of 2023, which is 32323, which is the only reason I remember because. I'm really bad with dates otherwise. But that's when I launched it. So almost it'll be coming up on three years in a couple of months. That I really went, I need to really hone in on this and figure this out and build this into something I don't know what yet, but I know that I'm not there.

Kelly: 1:20:15

So did you buy your brother out then? Or are you still doing stuff together in some facet?

SPEAKER_02: 1:20:22

Yeah. So I have bought an ownership percentage in his company. Um and then as we went, I think he got burnt out on it as well. And he's always been a little bit more into marketing and different creative work. He started some other businesses. So we're both very entrepreneurial in that way. My dad was an entrepreneur, you know, he was a carpenter. So he was like not the kind that we are. Um but you know, we watched that growing up. And I think we've always loved, we played outside all the time. So like we got very creative, very innovative. We had just like such a great childhood that was very dynamic. And I think that we brought that dynamicness into business. So he, um, my brother, when I had this conversation with him, I said, you can have the company, like I don't, you know, want it. I I'll start over with boardroom breakouts, and you can, you know, this was yours originally. Like, I want you to have that. And he was just at the point where he's like, I just don't know if I want to do it, you know, without you. And so I just left that up to him. And so far, he hasn't done anything with it in that um regard. But, you know, he still will lead trips sometimes with people and like friends, and like he'll still so he's there, but he's like, Who knows like what he's gonna do next? Who knows what he's gonna do next over there? But no, he he hasn't been involved as much with like at really at all with like the business that I'm doing now with boardroom breakouts. But okay. Sometimes I'll like go to him for creative ideas or different things, like, ooh, I'm trying to do this, like with branding, like how do you position it? And sometimes he'll give like really good thoughts and feedback. So I love him very dearly. He's he's really cool. He actually just launched this thing called the brand lab, I think. Um, and it's helping smaller, mid-sized businesses that want some of that personal touch with their branding, but don't have a huge budget. And so, like really helping people with that is just really cool. So he just launched that and he also does, you know, work with other companies and he does a lot of like corporate branding and marketing stuff. So yeah, it's it's sad that we're kind of like different ways. That was one of the hardest things I think I've ever had to do was separate from him. Um, and all of the heartache and I think things that you think of, it's almost like a divorce in a way.

Kelly: 1:22:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:22:31

Um, where you know, you have all these like ideas and hopes and dreams, especially when it's a sibling that you love and you care about. And then how does this impact him? But just knowing and trusting the universe and like I have to go this route. This is like what I feel like I have to do. And if the energy isn't there for you, that doesn't make sense to like, you know, yeah, we're two different people, and it was just that that conversation of like, what does this actually look like? So, but it was such a beautiful opportunity to learn and grow with him in that business. And I learned so much in our experience together that I've brought with me. And I I still love retreats, I think they're so powerful. I will scale those back up again. But really, my biggest goal was to get the most accessible like service available because there's so many people that won't even do the kind of retreats that we would launch. It was too you know, yeah crazy to move out there and people be like, oh, I can't do that. So it's like, okay, how do we like get people to like understand what we're doing, how we're using experiences and meet them where they're at? And then at some point they'll be like, oh yeah, now I'm ready for like the next thing, I'm ready for the next level.

Kelly: 1:23:39

Yeah, amazing. That's such a cool story. Thank you. And also I love that you emphasize like, yes, how incredible to be a part of something with a sibling. And also there is those defining moments of like, where what is this gonna look like? What does this need to look like? Having the conversation rather than avoiding the conversation and the challenges that that look that can look like, whether it is a family member or not. I'm sure that there are listeners who are hearing this right now and going, oh yeah, I've had to do this, or I'm in this experience right now with like talking through partnerships or potential like dissolving of partnerships as well.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:29

So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, and I just want to say, like, for us too, it was really important for both of us, and it still is like I think that integrity piece, I think that it can get really messy when it comes down to money, when it comes down to ego. Yeah, not saying that those things don't matter because like money, it does matter. Like, we've got to pay the bills, we've got to keep, you know, we we we deserve, like, especially as women. Like, sometimes we have to fight for our what we earn, right? Because it's less than men per dollar and things like that. So I never want to like diminish that, but at the same time, for both me and my brother, it was so important for us to not make money the issue, to not make that ego. It was really important to us to navigate like that relationship together, and there was still hurt. It was hard, it was really freaking hard. When did this happen? So, would it have been I would say like, well, there was obviously like a series of conversations that happened prior, but I'd say like in 2022, um, you're really starting to have some of those harder conversations, but in 2023, it was March 2023 or February. Yeah, and and it was so weird because I didn't know what I was gonna do next. But as I walked away from that conversation, I immediately like again hear these words. I'm like, is am I like, do I have like someone else living inside me that speaks or is it God? Is it like I don't know what it is with that voice? I immediately heard boredom breakouts, and it like I've been thinking about what I would do, what's the name, like what does this look like? And it was like so clear as I walked away from that conversation. But first I had the conversation. I think sometimes we want to wait until we know what we're doing. And sometimes, like, we know that feeling in our stomach or like it's not right, something isn't right, but we don't have the words for it. And so we try to wait until we do and we know what we're dealing with, we know what's going on, we have all the answers so that we can navigate it perfectly. And for me, it was really this journey of going, I just need to take the step and trust that I'll see the next one. Like when you're rock climbing, sometimes you don't know where your next foothold or hand hold is gonna be, but you stand up, you reach up, you feel around, and then you'll find a crevice, or you'll you'll find a little foothold, and you're like, ah, there it is. And I think of life like that, we don't always we know the direction we're going, right? Like with the rock climb, I'm like, you're going up. You need to kind of know that direction, but you don't need to always know. And I think it was at that moment for me where I was like, I don't know where that foot's gonna land. I don't know what this looks like. And it's so scary to let go of something, especially like that is so important to you. That is, you know it's gonna hurt, it's gonna cause things, it's gonna make waves. And I'm like, I don't want to do this, but there's something inside me that's like, I know. It's like that whisper. It's like, follow that, follow that thing. So once I did that, it was like, ah, there it is. And it's been like that. It's been this whole journey, like even in launching this space. I was like, I don't know what the next step is. Ah, there it is. Wow, this looks really bad on paper, but ah, there it is. Wow, only crazy people do things like this. Ah, there it is.

Kelly: 1:27:43

You're just there it is. I love it. Oh my gosh, I love you so much. Okay, so I just want to speak to this um metaphorically, resistance, right? I I like to compare it like this, and I love the rock climbing metaphor. Like I love, love, love that. That's why you saw me smiling and sort of giggling. The proverbial like bow and arrow, right? So those moments of resistance, i.e., needing to have a conversation, and the second that you have the conversation, or you do the thing that you've been resisting for X amount of months or years, whatever that timeline has looked like, it's like the second that you stop resisting it and just do is when you're able to find that next grass hold or whatever it's called in rock climbing. I'm not a good rock climbing mind, but um, I have rock climbed in my life, and I can say confidently that it is something that I actually enjoyed and might have been good at.

SPEAKER_02: 1:28:54

I think so. Anyways, I can tell. I you have a look. There's a there's a look. Uh no, it's it's not like specific to rock climbing, but it's like that, like I got that. I can figure this out.

Kelly: 1:29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:06

Grittiness. You got a grittiness about you.

Kelly: 1:29:08

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:08

But like not like visually, you're very beautiful visually, like, but you've got this like gritty, you know, energy. Yeah.

Kelly: 1:29:15

Well, I'm a big energy person, so it's it's been learned, and frankly, a lot of it has been learned in having conversations like this with women who also have the grittiness to them, too, or just tenacity or uh stamina to be able to move a specific direction. I think that being a mom, yeah, that is the essence of who we are. Maybe we have more of it and maybe we sort of grow into it and then cross that threshold too of being an entrepreneur. It's you certainly gotta have some of that.

SPEAKER_02: 1:29:50

You do. Um, going back to, I just wanted to circle back to what you said, though, about that resistance and why you know we resist so long. Um, if I could put a blanket statement on a different alternate word for resistance, it would be fear. And I talk about fear a lot, and people don't like talking about fear. I'm obsessed with understanding it because I think it drives 90% of all behavior. But again, that's where I'm like, people don't want to talk about fear, so what do we talk about instead? You know? No, but resistance is your brain actually trying to protect you. And so anytime that there is resistance or there's a hesitation, to me, that's always, what is my brain trying to protect me from? And is it valid first? Is it if it is valid, is it worth the risk anyway? There's things that I do knowing it's gonna hurt, but I'm gonna do it anyway because I need to. Like, I'm like, it's worth it because if it does work out, even if it doesn't, I'll learn from it. If it does work out, great. That's my next step. And the so I think like that fear though is really like making peace with it. Uh, for in that example of conversation with my brother, my my brain is like, don't do this. You're letting go of certainty. You know, what are you gonna do next? What are people gonna think about you? What will your family think about you? Will your brother hate you? You know, like all of these things. And so it's trying to protect me from that was losing connection. There's five core fears that we all share. Almost everything goes under one of these core fears. So one of them is like fear of losing connection. It's like fear of separation. And it shows up in a lot of different ways. That's where you get like people pleasing, or sometimes you get people that go the other route where it's like, oh, I don't need anyone. I'm gonna be super hyper-independent so that it doesn't hurt when people push me away from that connection, right? So you get kind of the different, you get the extremes because people like that certainty, like that certain answer, right? Or um you only want to be around people because they're they're they're propping you up. And so there's like this, it's it's like a tension, you know, where yes, you need connection, yes, you need people, you don't want to hurt people, but also at what cost? And so my question is always at what cost is this resistance and and what price am I willing to pay for what I believe the world needs, what I bring to the world. And so that's where that resistance, if I could just challenge any listeners or um just even yourself in that resistance or um hesitation or confusion, anytime you get those like signals that don't feel good, sometimes we just avoid them or try to like figure out like what the story is. Just ask yourself like, what is it trying to protect me from? And there's three social fears. The first one is um fear of separation, second one is ego death, and that's really like self-worth, your value, not just your value, but how people see your value. And then the third one is fear of losing autonomy, which is control and contribution. That's how we kind of like navigate those other two fears and like how people see us and how people connect with us, but more than that, it's how am I actually contributing and making meaning out of who I am and what I have and the people around me. So fear of losing control is something that a women struggle with a lot more because those expectations are placed on us to control everything and keep it orderly and peaceful and maintained, right? So women especially have to like also protect themselves. So then you're thinking so many steps ahead. And so control is very important too. And because it's helped us survive again, these are fears that are very valid and they've helped us, but when they cross a threshold into keeping us small, into I call it cages of comfort. Oh, that didn't feel good. So now I'm gonna bring this, like I'm not gonna do that anymore. Oh, this doesn't feel good, so now I'm I'm gonna tone that down. And we just make ourselves so small because of these fears, and we get afraid to have hard conversations, we get afraid to make big moves, we get afraid to fail, we get afraid to look anything less than perfect. And that makes that keep that's what keeps us really small.

Kelly: 1:33:51

That was so cool.

SPEAKER_02: 1:33:53

Oh, thank you.

Kelly: 1:33:55

I mean which part just resonating with you walking through those stages of fear and then putting it into context really so that the listeners can understand like, oh, perhaps this is where I'm falling in this particular category right now. It's a lot, yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02: 1:34:19

But I have a chart, like a spreadsheet because I'm a big fan of this. And I have it organizing. I like visuals too. Yeah, I can get it for you. And I can actually um have it so that you can give it as like a download or something. But there's also like, okay, there's these fears, and then there's the different names that we give it or how we recognize it. But then just I want to make a note of this because I think this is really important when you talk about women, expectations, society, but also family expectations. Basically, all of these fears we're told or taught from family or society how we're supposed to navigate those fears. And that's where it gets um where I think a lot of confusion comes in. Okay, there's this people pleasing, right? That's how you're supposed to negotiate with that fear of separation. You're supposed to just please everyone. Like sometimes that's taught by a family, like, oh, you don't rock the boat, you don't cause trouble, right? Maybe you're taught by your family, like how you negotiate with that fear is you don't actually need anyone. You just become really independent. So we're taught sometimes these fears, and that's where change becomes really hard because we're taught by systems how to negotiate with these fears instead of looking at each situation on an individual basis and choosing in the moment is this how I want to show up? Is this what aligns with me? Is this the life that I want to live? And sometimes the answer is like, nope. Right now we don't wreck the boat, but I know what I'm choosing. And it's not just happening, you know, because it's it's what's always been done. So that's where your real power comes in, is being able to identify in the moment what that fear is and then how you actually want to navigate it. Do you want to negotiate with it and kind of push it aside in a way that you're comfortable with and used to dealing with, or do you want to face it? And that's where courage, you need that courage. That's a second step after challenge is courage. It takes a lot of courage to go, I'm gonna actually face this fear and choose differently and navigate this differently. And that courage is a cognitive muscle, so it gets stronger every time. Like that's why I talk about a gym, like working out. That's where you get stronger, and you have so much power in those like split seconds in your brain when you have these choices, fear is triggered, your brain will automatically just assess a threat and be like, nope, do this thing. And so many times we just go do the thing in the way that we're taught and don't question it.

Kelly: 1:36:41

Because it's habitual, it's habitual and it's expected.

SPEAKER_02: 1:36:44

And why would we ever change it? But it keeps us so small. And if you're a changer, if you're a mover and a shaker like I am, it can be exhausting to be that person. And so, how do you actually stay resilient? How do you actually understand what's happening in a world that keeps changing? But these are skills that leaders need too, right? Because like in any industry, you're the one that has to like figure it out quicker than anyone else. And this is so powerful because it really shifts the entire way that you approach situations, it shifts the way that you view challenge and disruption as actually opportunity as catalysts. So it's really important to I think understand that those dynamics and um kind of how we're taught, just as like a think about it. Just think about it. Just think about it. You don't have to agree with me. I mean, I don't think I'm wrong, but you don't have to agree with me, challenge me. But think about it. Anytime that you're uncomfortable, anytime that you feel resistance or challenge, you go, what is this fear? And it feels bad maybe because I'm wanting to handle it in a different way than I was taught. I'm I want to handle this different than what society is expecting me to. And that's a lot of times a good thing because society has doesn't have a lot of things figured out. It's not healthy.

Kelly: 1:37:58

Family, like well, that's very evident right now at this particular moment in time. It's like our society just feels like it, it doesn't feel it is very off course. We're very off course, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:38:14

Okay, fun rabbit hole, rabbit hole. Oh, yes. One more thing on that connection, community, because we keep coming back to this, especially like as women, and I think they do community so well. But there is like this um fascinating study that was done in the 60s that was about these people that had the most longevity out of anyone in the world. I mean, it was like these people that die of like heart disease or stroke, nothing like it's crazy. They died of like old age, and they tried to study um different things like is it genetics, is it where they live, is it what they're eating? And none of these things had any sort of parallel. So then the researchers started looking at other factors, one of them being how they lived and patterns, and they were very connected, they had many different like potlucks and people were bringing stuff together, they would take care of each other, the young people would be like raking leaves, and the old people would be watching the kids, and they were they were very communal, which is very different, right, than our individualistic society.

SPEAKER_00: 1:39:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:39:16

And so since the 60s, they've done a lot more studies on connection and relationships. And we literally, I think this is mind-boggling, we have the power to give each other life, to heal each other through connection. It has a stronger um effect on our health than diet and exercise, and all of these things that like we're told to do, but we're not taught how to actually connect in healthy ways. And that has the power to give each other better life and longevity. And I think how powerful. No wonder we're so scared of losing connection and that fear of separation, which keeps us in some of these patterns. That's why sometimes we don't change. It's so powerful.

Kelly: 1:40:01

Yeah. Is this in tandem to the blue zones? I don't know what this is. Oh, we'll look at the book. I have it. Um, it's out in the the living room because it's a book that I've read.

unknown: 1:40:12

Okay.

Kelly: 1:40:13

Do you like my like compartment? I do. And you have like your living room books now, and you have your bedroom books. Yep, the bedroom books are ones that are like most definitely gonna get read. Some of the books that are in here right now are books that I I would like to read, but I just it's like this is like your waiting room.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:33

Yeah.

Kelly: 1:40:34

Like the doctor's office.

SPEAKER_02: 1:40:35

Like the books in waiting.

Kelly: 1:40:38

I love it. Well, I've read actually I've read this one because she was on the podcast. I've read half of um Renee Rodriguez's Amplify Your Influence. Huge fan of Jay Shuddy, huge fan of him. Um, but I haven't got to around to that one. Think like a monk. I'll drop this into the show notes for all of you people. But, anyways, okay, Sarah, we're gonna start to land the plane, as I like to say, because I want to respect your time and you've got an event later on. Um, so I want to talk a little bit about legacy and what you're doing right now, what you're building, and how how you have you spoke to this about the kids coming on retreats with you, they lived in Thailand with you, but have you thought about the integration of what you are, what you continue to learn and how much knowledge you have around habits of human beings, right? And how does that play into how you are parenting with your children? But then also have you thought about the legacy piece too of what you're building and and perhaps one of those kids taking it on downstream?

SPEAKER_02: 1:41:46

Um, you know, this is something I don't know if I've thought about. I think legacy is such a fascinating thought. Okay. Okay, so I don't know if we should go here, but I'm gonna go here.

Kelly: 1:42:01

I don't know where you want to go, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_02: 1:42:04

It's probably controversial to what a lot of people, I think a lot of messaging where I think legacy has become really important to people. I think it's important to pass it on. But when I think about humanity and versus like family legacy, I think we have to do what's best for the greater good and not just for our individual biological or you know, like married into families, which I think that there's something to it. But you know, they're talking about generational wealth and passing things down, and I'm like, nah, my kids gotta figure it out. Like if I if I've taught them it. Fair enough. And I think we we hoard resources and we hoard knowledge, we hoard things. And there's a part of me that's like, I just feel like my kids know this. I'm like, I could not just, and this is my personal belief. I I don't try to judge anyone else that thinks different, but personally, I'm not okay with the idea of having a ton of money in my account when people 44% of the world is under the poverty level. They don't have access to food and water, shelter, or an education of any kind. 44%, that's almost half of our entire human population. I'm not okay with it. I'm not okay. And so I don't think that they're okay. And I'm very passionate about telling my kids, like, you'll figure it out. Like, if I could figure it out with the skills I had, I'm giving you skills, I'm teaching you things you can figure it out. And if not, live the life you want. Like, what a couple months. My son is like, I want to do, you know, HVAC. And I'm like, great, do HVAC. Yeah, be happy, be a good person, do whatever you can. Like, I love that for you. And my daughter's talked about being a vet. I'm like, do that. My legacy, I think, is humanity. How can I give what I have to more humans that want to continue the work? That's my legacy. I think what we give to each other is it's it's so beautiful when it's shared. And to me, that sharing doesn't fall into that. So I told you I'm very passionate about this, obviously. Like I'm all fired up right now. Um but I just think like we we we again individualize these things. Like I'm successful to this point because of the people around me. Why would I not give that back to the people around me? Instead of taking that and being like, no, it's just gonna stay in this tiny little, you know, family thing, like whatever. I don't know. Like I want my kids to like not struggle to the point where like they're in danger. But I just feel like you know, they'll be okay. They'll be okay.

Kelly: 1:44:34

The skill sets that they are learning, especially as it pertains to like the bigger, broader picture that you're presenting, right? Like, that's a staggering statistic. I didn't even know that. I mean, I had a pretty good idea, but 44% is pretty staggering. It's huge. It's not okay.

SPEAKER_02: 1:44:54

No, I love the number four normally, but not in this case. It's my favorite number, but I'm like, no.

Kelly: 1:45:00

And and what's interesting is that you think about the nation that we live in, right? And just the amount of wealth that people have, corporations, non-corporations, and uh the distribution is pretty small. It's skewed.

SPEAKER_02: 1:45:22

You know, a lot of this actually started, and not to get, you know, down this rabbit hole, but it started um people used to be taxed at a much higher, higher, extremely high rate, like 70% above a certain threshold. Yeah. And that really shifted in like the 60s. Yeah. Um and has continued to be this trickle-down um economics theory. And there's this capitalistic side that's like, but you deserve, you worked hard. But I I know a lot of people that work two or three jobs, like they're working hard too, but somehow this is rewarded versus that. And so I think like that's the struggle that I have where, but if we're gonna change it, sometimes you gotta play with it, right? So I'm like, if capitalism is set up this way, let's do business together, but let's use that money. My goal is to, I would love to donate a billion dollars, but by the time I die to the world. Like that's a big number, it's a big goal. But I'm like, you know what? You never know. That's what I'd love to do. Yep. Just because um, I think if we can use this money, funnel it in, and then funnel it back to people and communities that really need it, and just empower them and even just set that example. Like, this is how it should be done. If you, if this is what trickle down actually is, it's not hoarding it and trickling it down to your children, you know, sure, sure. I like a personally, trickling it into people and communities that need it. And to me, that's not just the United States, it's the world. We are all human. And you know, I've had this beautiful privilege and heartbreak and responsibility of seeing people in other countries that are in the worst imaginable situations a human can be in where death seems pleasant. And that to me is like that's humanity over there. And we have the power here to do something about it. And my goal is how do I help bridge that gap between who's here and what we have and how we collectively solve these collective challenges in the world. So that's that's I think um when I think of legacy, gosh, like if if we can just uh be that space, that safe space where someone can just breathe, just rest for moments and uh have a better life. Like that to me is the best thing that we can do as humans in it in any way.

Kelly: 1:47:43

Yeah. I love your heart so much. It's intense, it is an intense heart. It's it is intense, but we need people like you in this world, Sarah, frankly, who can provide a different lens and perspective of we get into our bubbles. I'm guilty of this. Like, as I'm hearing you talk through this, I'm like, how cushy do I have it? Living in my bubble and then kind of doing the day-to-day routine where it's different every day because this is just a life of an entrepreneur, and also have an awareness, like a true awareness of the other things that are happening. It's tough for me because I am an empathetic person and I have this natural instinct and habitual knee-jerk reaction to want to fix. I'm overly hopeful, I want to fix, and how can I do it? But then also I go, the gravity of that situation is just the magnitude and the gravity, it's weighty, right? And so fear probably kicks in because that's what we talk we've been talking about. And so I go like this. Yeah, I push it away, yeah, and I go, okay, well, what you're speaking to is the little baby steps that you can do here in this particular moment, which is beautiful.

SPEAKER_02: 1:49:14

But I think like not everyone should be like this or could, you know, go around the world and do these things. That's not what this is about. This is about like again, each person in your own sphere, in your own bubble. How do you learn how your brain I think works so that you can make choices that make the world better around you? Because when that happens and you have thousands of people doing these things and having these tools, they're empowered to also empower. Yeah, that's change on a grand level, but we all have our part. And I might just be trying to spearhead it, but every single person that's listening to this that gets to do um uh a session or an experience or whatever it is, like every single person that we come into contact with has a role in this, and that's doing what you can with what you have, and just being aware of what you have and and how you can use it in that bigger picture, and that's for those micro moments. This is a you're a micro person, and I'm a micro person in this picture that is very big, and I can't solve it on my own. And I think that's where I'm like, I'm overwhelmed, shut down. Yeah, what can I do about 44% of the world? Well, maybe not that much, even a billion dollars that I want to do it, like feels like a big number. It's not even a big number compared to what's needed, right? But what can I do? And what can you do? And and that's the micro moments. That's every single thing that we do with intention, every person we talk to, and that gives me hope because every person I've ever had a conversation with wants to do the right thing, they want to get it right. No matter who I've talked to, they're like, but they but there's the in-between that's messy, right? And and it's the little moments that we discount, and it's oh, this doesn't matter much because it feels so common, but it all matters in like the big scheme. And so you doing all your little things, me doing all my little things as we as we go. I think you move that needle. That's good. So that's really good. Don't get lost in the vigness.

Kelly: 1:51:24

Well, I just need to keep a little bit of Sarah around me. Like, can I just make it in my pocket? I really, I really like you. So I I would like that. I love it. Okay. I want to talk through faith because you grew up in a setting and I I wanna we're we're landing the plane because I do want to respect your time. So let's talk briefly about how faith has played a role for you. What does faith look like um in the context of what you're building? And and then after that, I would love to hear a piece of advice you would give a younger version of yourself knowing all that you know now.

SPEAKER_02: 1:52:10

So, faith. Um, I was raised in an evangelical home. My dad was a pastor, it was a really big part of my entire childhood. I I love church, like I was like the nerdy girl that was like like I would wave flags and there's music, I'd be like doing these dances, like all the things. Um as I actually was a teenager, I continued to save money and go on missions trips all over different places. And I started to feel this tension with the church that I didn't know what to do with because there was so much um I felt lacking in it. Um, everything was put into these little boxes that didn't actually work in the real world that I from my experience. And so I started um feeling this disconnect between what religion was supposed to do and what my faith was leading me to do. And I didn't really have words for it, I didn't know what it looked like, but um as I started like continuing down my road, I just feel like I outgrew a lot of what I would consider um religion into more of a faith that's bigger than a religion, that's bigger than one religion. I see people all around the world trying to connect with our creator in so many different ways, in the language that they have, in the religion that they have available to them. And you know, because I had grown up like, oh, Christianity is the only way, the only way everyone else is kind of going to hell. And so that was like where that shift came from for me was going, wow, like all these people are doing amazing things and connecting with their creator, and how beautiful is that that they're doing that with the religion, with the tools, with other whatever they have that as long as it's like obviously like following our universal rules of respecting yourself yourself, others, and the creator, those three relationships um and not harming. Yeah, there's so many good people out there, and so I really shifted into this. Um, I have such an appreciation for our creator. I we're so connected. I feel like I'm very connected and and integrated with our creator. Um, I have two rules with our creator. One is I don't do signs and wonders. You gotta like just tell me, and that's where I really appreciate the words that are like, this is not, this is direct. I don't do signs and wonders. Like, just tell me what to do. And then the second rule is the answer is always yes. When I hear that thing, it's always yes. It doesn't matter how good it looks on paper, because I'm like, I just trust that. And I just trust that it'll have my back and that I'm here to do big things, and so it's gonna be bigger than my understanding. And so that's kind of been my relationship um over the last, especially like 10 years, that's really evolved and just grown into something where I'm like, I don't know if there's like there's not a book for this. It's it's like there's not a way for this, it's so just alive and present and connected, and it's not in something that's been written or done before because this is me and I'm unique, and the creator is, I think, alive and unique in this moment. So different situations require different approaches, and so we kind of work together on that. So that's that's where I am now.

Kelly: 1:55:17

That's so it's a very powerful response. So thank you for sharing that. How about a piece of advice you'd give a younger version of yourself, knowing all that you have either gone through or or feel like you know now?

SPEAKER_02: 1:55:31

I would say don't let anything harden your heart. It's so easy, especially as an empath or a feeler, um, someone that wants to do good. Like there's so many things that will break your heart. So many things. And they should never stop breaking your heart because that's when you stop living. And so I think keep staying soft, feeling the brokenness, because that's gonna be your compass. Obviously, you can't live in it every day, but keeping your heart kind when someone hurts you, wishing them well and healing and continuing on the way. Like you don't have to repeat that experience, but don't let it harden your heart. You don't have to stay there, don't let it harden. Go to the next thing, keep giving people the benefit of the doubt, keep loving people, be smart, but you gotta keep that heart kind because that's where joy comes from. That's where living, that's where connection comes from. That's where like all of the greatest and most painful things come from the same source. So, as much pain as there is, there will be equally as much beauty. And that's what life is. So keeping your heart kind and soft is so crucial in this world that it's so hard.

Kelly: 1:56:52

What's a piece of advice you'd give a woman listening right now who's nibbling on the edges of entrepreneurship?

SPEAKER_02: 1:56:59

Girl, you are so fucking capable. Like, I don't even know how to express how much we discount our capabilities and our our impact and like what we have. We're so creative. Women are like, they're grit, they're smart, they connect dots. And not to like talk down on men, because like men have their like great skills and great strengths, but in business, women are insane, like they're insane. And moms, the more kids you have, the more effective, productive, and efficient you are, by the way. So if you have more kids, like you're probably gonna like crunch it.

Kelly: 1:57:34

Coming from a woman here who's who's got four, four kids in the household, while two of them are technically out of the nest.

SPEAKER_02: 1:57:41

Well, it forces you to level up though. It forces you to think about things differently. And that's what business is, is thinking about things differently, solving problems that other people can't solve. And what do moms do? They solve problems all day long. So when you have got it in you, it might not look like you think, and it probably won't go exactly how you think it's gonna go. And that's okay. That's part of the journey. Do it anyway, keep going because you are capable. And I don't even care who you are. I don't have to know you to know this. As humans, over and over again, the biggest battle is in our brain. We're all capable. It's just a matter of like, okay, how am I gonna handle this? How am I gonna solve that? Who do I need around me? Who's in my code or who's gonna help me kick ass? So, girl, you're capable.

Kelly: 1:58:23

If I'm a listener listening right now, how can I get connected with you, Sarah? What are ways that they can connect with you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:58:33

So I'm on LinkedIn. That's really my only personal platform. I deleted some of my other platform socials this last year to get um off of it a little bit. But um I do some posting on LinkedIn. Also, if you're in the Twin Cities area, right now I have power up for Minneapolis that I'm launching today. And we have open sessions or team sessions that are going to be out of there. I do open retreats as well that are all based on this kind of stuff, teaching these tools. So there's different ways to get involved there. But if you just reach out on LinkedIn and you know want to connect in some way, that's probably the best way to connect with me. Or you can go on our website and fill out a connect. But I just I love humans, I love individuals, and so um, if there's any way we can connect on a one-on-one basis, like that's that's my favorite. Sarah, such a joy, such a pleasure. You did this so well, can I just say? Like you the way you structured it, the way you are keeping me on the guardrail. So maybe you tried your best. You tried your best. Um, you have a gift, and thank you for sharing it with the world because what you do matters. So I just want to say thank you to you.

Kelly: 1:59:42

I'm tearing up right now, so I appreciate you so much. We are gonna hug it out after we we stop recording. But Sarah, I'm so even for the little bit that I know you, I just want to say I'm so proud of what you're doing, how you're Going about it, the emphasis that you have, and and even that that like advice to a younger version of yourself and to women is like just like you've got it and lead with joy and all of this stuff. And you're not only are you saying it, but you are modeling the very thing. And so I think that it's so easy to dish out advice, but when you're actually modeling the very thing that you're speaking to, I can't wait a year from now to see where everything is going with boardroom breakouts and with power up. Like you've got something really incredible that's happening. So thank you. I'm a cheer, I'm a cheerleader for you. I'm cheering you on. And um, thank you for carving out time on such an incredibly special day as well for you and what you're creating. And so thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 2:00:55

Thank you, and thank you to anyone that's listened this long.

Kelly: 2:00:58

They are listening this long. You're you're in it to win it. So thank you to the listeners as well, who are still here. Um, and they just if they if they are here still, they got the juicy nuggets all the way through, and especially right there at the tail end. So you're amazing, and I hope you have a great rest of the day. You as well. Thank you.