Ep. 90 with Brenda Brummond | Success Coach & Founder, School of Self-Worth

Forgiveness, Feminine Power, And Building A Life You Love

What if the moment that broke you open became the map that remade your life? Kelly sits down with Brenda to trace a road that starts with young motherhood and scarcity, runs straight through betrayal and numbing, and emerges into a life powered by compassion, forgiveness, and feminine intelligence. The twists are real—single mom grit in chiropractic school, discovering an affair, hitting a personal rock bottom—yet the turn is even more compelling: a spiritual wake-up, steady repair, and an unexpected pregnancy that kept hard conversations alive long enough to heal.

We unpack how judgment fell away and made room for agency, how A Course in Miracles reframed the ego’s voice of fear, and why letting the lesson “do” you can transform your work, your relationships, and your nervous system. Brenda shares how coaching began in the margins of her practice—patients asking for time beyond adjustments—and why inside-out growth outperforms any strategy when it comes to sustainable success. You’ll hear the practical ways she balances masculine and feminine energy: listen, feel, and invite support, then move with clean action. If you push from overdrive or wait from over-softness, her simple re-centering tools will help you sell with heart, lead with clarity, and scale without self-sacrifice.

We also preview Brenda’s forthcoming book, F Everyone, where F stands for forgive. This is forgiveness as a daily discipline: releasing judgment so love can lead, becoming slippery to shame, and creating a future that doesn’t keep paying the past. With vivid stories, grounded practices, and candid insights, this conversation invites you to choose love over fear and build a life—and business—worthy of your truest self.

If this moved you, share it with a friend, hit follow, and leave a quick review telling us what you’re ready to forgive next. Your words help more women find their way here.

Connect with Brenda:

Website: Dr. Brenda Brummond

LinkedIn: Dr. Brenda Brummond

IG: @brendabrummond

Facebook: Dr. Brenda Brummond

Contact the Host, Kelly Kirk:

• Email: info.ryh7@gmail.com

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Credits:

• Editor: Joseph Kirk
• Music: Kristofer Tanke 

Thanks for listening & cheers to Reclaiming Your Hue! 

Transcript

Warm Welcome And Serendipitous Connection

Kelly 0:10

Welcome everybody to Reclaiming Your Hue, where we are dedicated to empowering women to embrace and amplify their inherent brilliance. Our mission is to inspire mothers and entrepreneurs to unlock their full potential and radiate their true selves. I'm your host, Kelly Kirk, and each week my goal is to bring to you glorious guests as well as solo episodes. So let's dive in. How are you doing? I'm doing great. It is so nice to see you again.

unknown 1:43

Yeah.

Kelly 1:43

So great to be here. Thank you. I'm so happy that you're here. And thank you for making the truck. I know that you had a little bit more of a travel than some of the other women who have been on the podcast. So thank you.

Brenda 1:55

Yes, it's worth the drive.

Kelly 1:57

You're worth the drive. Oh, I love that. Thank you so much.

Brenda 2:01

Of course.

Motherhood Before Entrepreneurship

Kelly 2:02

Um, I love that we get to see one another again. So typically, when I have someone on the podcast, I'll have like a phone conversation or a Zoom conversation with them. And then the first time that I'm meeting them in person in the flesh is when they're walking through my door to come and interview for the podcast. But we had a really great opportunity to actually connect beforehand without even knowing that that was going to be the case. And it was at Stacy's place, and I'm pulling up and I see you get out of your vehicle, and I'm like, I think that's Brenda. I think I get to meet Brenda before she actually comes on the podcast, which is so cool. Yeah. It's not typically the case for me. So I felt so blessed to have that opportunity beforehand. Yeah.

Brenda 2:54

So me too.

Kelly 2:55

And hear a little bit about you and your story as well. So yeah. Shall we dive in?

Brenda 3:02

Of course.

Kelly 3:03

Wow, I would love for you to share with the listeners how you and I initially got connected for that Zoom call.

Brenda 3:10

Yes. So one of my clients, Kim, actually reached out to me through an email introduction and said, Oh my gosh, Brenda, you have got to meet Kelly. And Kelly, you've got to meet Brenda. And, you know, people who I work with, my clients, they know me through and through, and the power of the work that I do, and, you know, in respect to their own journey. And they also just love connecting really amazing women. And you're doing such a beautiful job in your world and with this podcast. And you're such a beautiful light. And I Kim may have actually said that on the email introduction, like introducing two beautiful lights to each other.

Kelly 3:58

Well, she's such a beautiful light, too. And I just I remember meeting her, and I ironically, even though my husband and I are in real estate and have the business together, and you know, Kim is a mortgage lender, my initial introduction to Kim was not in the space of real estate and mortgage. It was even though we're in that space of real estate and mortgage, the introduction that I received to Kim was actually because of the co-working space that she created. And then after like learning more about Kim, I was like, you're in mortgage? Well, we're we're kind of in this position right now of like talking to women mortgage lenders.

Brenda 4:50

Amazing.

Kelly 4:50

And so we're talking, we're like kind of keeping Kim in the wheelhouse for our future clients, which is incredible. So I just love her to pieces. I think she's incredible. And in just like getting to know her, obviously, here you and I are having this conversation.

Brenda 5:06

Yeah. Right. I I love that synchronicity and those coincidences, which to me are not coincidences, but I follow those leads, those breadcrumbs. I love having that more of life's an adventure. And I don't want to know everything. I hope I don't know everything. I'm very clear about that, but I follow these little leads and they always lead to the most incredible places.

Kelly 5:31

I couldn't agree more. Well, what came first for you? Because as the listeners are about to find out, you have a few things kind of rummaging around with your world and business and motherhood, to be frank. But what came first for you? Was it motherhood or entrepreneurship?

Single Mom Grit And School Survival

Brenda 5:54

So interesting. It was actually motherhood because I married my junior high school sweetheart in college. And I'm from small town, South Dakota. And we had our daughter, Kenzie, a year later. And that was while I was, you know, on this track of, okay, I want to be really successful. That was my way of kind of walking out of what felt like poverty growing up. And, you know, just trying to make ends meet. My parents really struggled, and uh, life was hard for them. We had to move. Um, so my dad could be near his job. And then my mom actually, I mean, they're such incredible people, but it was a struggle growing up. And she went back to college, became an RN while she was in college while I was in high school, and I'm second oldest of six kids. And she's such an inspiration of what she did. But for that time period in my life, I was like, I do not want to struggle the way I see my mom and dad struggling, and you know, living off food stamps at times, and really needing to, you know, figure out how are we gonna get the next meal on the table. And it just caused a lot of conflict in their life. And yeah, I felt so bad for them. And, you know, they kind of coped with that conflict with drinking, which was, you know, like a pretty normal thing back then. And on weekends, you deal with your stress by having a few beers with family. And you know, it just led to, you know, a lot more beers sometimes. And it just that wasn't the easiest way. And I saw that lifestyle and I the struggle, and I just wanted something bigger, better, brighter. I always was looking way far ahead and thought I I don't know where it came from, but I thought I can do this big, bold thing in the world, whatever that might be. But it wasn't with no without so much fear along the way, but in my mind, so going back to junior high, getting married in college, and having Kenzie a year later, I knew my ticket out was to become successful, to have a career. Always wanted to be a medical doctor, a doctor of some kind, thought it was medical, got a job in a chiropractic office in college, and loved the wellness side of healthcare and not having to deal with death and dying. I loved getting people out of pain, seeing people get out of pain. And so, yeah, I, with my small mindset then, it was like, well, what do you do after high school? You go to college, you get married, you have a baby. I wanted to have a baby around my mom and dad because I knew I'd probably move away from medical school or chiropractic school. And so motherhood came first. And I remember my mom saying, Oh, are you sure, Brenda? You want to have a baby right now? Like you've got grad school in front of you. I'm like, Oh yeah, mom, I want to be around my family, you when I have this baby, and we'll figure it out. And, you know, I just thought I had the world by the tail and had, you know, you know, whatever I thought was the right way in all ways. And um, yeah, it was tough. So motherhood, fast forward to a year and a half later, moved to Minnesota for chiropractic school. Um, Jim and I, a few months into that separated and divorced. And so here I am, a single mom in chiropractic school uh with this little girl, but I knew it was our ticket to a better life.

Kelly 9:33

Oh my gosh, Brenda. I'm thinking about how old your daughter was at that given moment in time, and quite frankly, it's pretty close to the age that Maddie's at right now, my youngest, my biological daughter. And I always try to envision myself in somebody else's shoes in that circumstance. We we all get through, everything is going to be okay, right? But it doesn't mean that we're not in what feels like a valley, yeah, so to speak. Yeah. So talk myself and the listeners through what was going through your mind at that given point in time.

Brenda 10:24

Yeah, it was it was really hard. I felt like I was like a small town girl in the city. But again, my true north, my north star was I've I've got to get through chiropractic school. I've got to make a career for myself, and I've got this baby to take care of. And it it was a struggle, but again, you do what you need to do. It was really an interesting experience because I felt like I was a little girl from a small town, all of a sudden, this on this incredible journey where I knew it was my future. I knew this is where I was meant to be. I was really happy about being in school, like my ticket to freedom and success and everything I wanted. And yet, oh my gosh, navigating, being a single mom, um, trying to be, you know, full-time in school, which is for the most part eight to five. And my daughter's in daycare, and then I get home, and it's you know, being the mom until bathtime at night and putting Kenzie to bed, and then I would sit up till who knows, midnight one studying and kind of do it all over again. And you know, it doesn't come without that feeling of guilt, like, oh my gosh, McKenzie, like I'd love to spend more time with her and you know be with her more, but it was like, no, this is up to you. You've got to to give yourself a better life, you've got to do this.

Kelly 11:52

So Kenzie is how old now?

Brenda 11:55

30.

Kelly 11:56

30?

Brenda 11:57

Yeah, married with our granddaughter Harper, who's four, Brenda.

Kelly 12:02

I was not expecting that. And perhaps, I mean, forgive me, pardon me for my reaction, but I look at you and I go, the math is not mathing.

Brenda 12:13

I was 21 when I had her. Jeez. Yeah.

Kelly 12:20

I love also that you have it's very evident that you have the attitude that you don't care how you do not care that other people know how old you are.

Brenda 12:33

No, I don't care at all. Tell me more about that. You know, I feel like, oh my gosh, I've just gone to hellenback in so many different areas in my life. You know, me, the little girl trying to really be somebody and have a better life and do all these things. What I didn't know at the time is I was carrying with that so much judgment of like, not gonna be like that when I get older, and I'm not gonna go through these things, and I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna be that. And that was my way of like really toughening up to get through hard things. But at the same time, it also I realized was a defense mechanism to try to always just work so hard, try so hard, be a perfect everything as much as I could. That eventually that you know, house made of cards is gonna fall.

Kelly 13:29

I love that.

Age, Judgment, And Self-Compassion

Brenda 13:31

Yes, because anytime we're judging anything in our lives, and this is a huge part of my work, actually, is an open invitation for you to either experience that same type of life situation, circumstance in one way, shape, or form in your life. Because I'm I think we're all meant to evolve through judgment and to get to the other side of it. And so I really practice all the ways in my life that I can of non-judgment of, you know, I'm 52, I'm gonna be 53 this year. What does that mean? Well, it means whatever I tell myself it means, and I kind of decided it, you know, it was hard turning 40 was really weird. 50 was super weird. I'm like, what is this? But at the same time, I was like, Well, what is this, Brenda? You get to decide for yourself. Like, you're the one creating the stories, the ideas, the beliefs. Everything has the meaning you give to it. So I'm like, you know what? I want to hide. I want to hide behind my age. I want to use it as like a badge of honor. I am, I have a lot of scars from life. I have a lot of difficult things I've gone through and come out the other side of. And so I'm really, from that perspective, I'm really honored to say that I'm here and alive and well and still thriving. And yet I feel like I'm just starting so many things in my life.

Kelly 15:03

I just turned 40 this past year, and I can I can empathize with you as it relates to like it was weird, right? I I literally was like, bring on 40. I want to say goodbye to my 30s. I'm ready to move through my 40s. I'm super excited about it. And then I turned 40, and it was probably, so that was back in September, and it was probably a couple of months, and all of a sudden I noticed a couple more sparkles on my head. And um a couple more just really cute, cute teeny tiny lines around my eyes. They're super cute. I'm gonna call them badges of honor. And I'm like, kind of do this teeter between like embrace it and go. This is amazing. Look where you're at at the age of 40. And then I go, what kind of like serum can I slather on my face, right? Yes. It's so weird. It's literally the weirdest like toggle that happens for me. It is so, anyways, I completely digressed. This is not about me. This is about you, Brenda. I am curious about what have you replaced judgment with? Like what I think I have an idea about it, but I'm curious for you what you needed to work through, because it sounds like it was it was judgment of self.

Brenda 16:38

Yeah.

Kelly 16:39

And what needed to replace the judgment in order to for you to go, not today, Satan.

Brenda 16:46

Yes, exactly. Um, it's that's a very deep question, and it's really interesting because depending upon who I'm talking to, and I'm such a big energy person, and I love to feel the energy of the person I'm sharing things with, which obviously we're on a podcast, there's lots of energies out there, but I would say overall, definitely compassion. Definitely compassion. And through the work that I do and through my own journey of really getting to some of these deep dark places and my own rock bottoms, uh where I came from, which I would say this, you know, kind of very judgmental uh teen college, where it's not gonna be me, I'm not gonna do this, I'm not gonna whatever. I would never do that, and having to go through that and then being put in specific situations that I would have never in a million years thought I'd be put in, and then here I am, and then looking at me myself in the mirror and saying, wow, here you are doing this yourself. And yeah, it's a little different, little different bow and package and gift wrap situation, but it's exactly the same thing that you harshly judged other people for. That has humbled me so much in my life that I thought, you know, I can't, I think God almost had me go through exactly every single thing to help me see and understand what it feels like while you're in the thick of it. Yeah. And how, you know, you're not a bad person, you're not doing anything wrong. Often you're doing the best you can with what you know. And that was a huge breakthrough for me. And I thought, who am I to judge? And then, you know, it's led me into this work that I do, which is so incredible. I can't, you can't judge and then see with true vision or you know, know yourself truly while judging. It's the exact opposite.

Kelly 18:52

Yeah. I think about I'm sort of doing this parallel between the word compassion, love, and gratitude, right? So I think of how love can really truly replace that judgment of self. Let's start there, right? If you are approaching any circumstance with an an attitude of gratitude, and how can I love myself more? Like there can't be the love slash gratitude slash compassion and fear and judgment, and it like that is tough to have happen at the same time. Yeah, like at the same exact time, yeah, right.

Brenda 19:40

Yeah, I think it's I think it's mathematically, scientifically, energetically impossible.

Kelly 19:50

I agree with you. I I wholeheartedly agree with you. Now you have more children. Would you be willing to share with the listeners where we're at today with Brenda, how many children, their ages, and um, like what that has looked like kind of in a nutshell from Kenzie up until the last one.

The Discovery And Relationship Collapse

Brenda 20:16

Yeah, yeah. So I'm a mom of five. So after my separation and divorce, which was so difficult, um, and again, we're, you know, I my ex is a a great person. We just grew up to be two totally different people and situations and circumstances at the time. And I met my current husband in chiropractic school, and he became my best friend. We worked out together over lunch period. He taught me how to lift weights versus just jumping around doing aerobics. He's like, I think I can help you lose weight more because I had just come off of having Mackenzie and I just felt so like not good in my body. And yeah, so I met him and we hung out and he became such an incredible, like best friend. He helped me heal my relationship with my parents, my relationship with my ex-husband, you know, because there was still pain with it of yeah, I can't believe I would have never imagined I would be divorced and this soon in life. Like this feels terrible. And he even helped me navigate. I remember saying to him one time in the middle of probably biochemistry class in chiropractic school, as I was dealing with this whole separation and divorce from Jim, I said, you know, I want to get to a place with this where I feel comfortably that I could sit down with Kenzie someday and say, you know, this is why I'm not married to your dad any longer. And he helped me really get to a place that made sense. And, you know, he was in a relationship at the time, and so it it was such a like free relationship in that there was no expectations of anything. Little did I know that I would start to fall for him. And I fell for him before he fell for me. And so that was really difficult. And I was just watching his life from a little bit of afar, but yet, you know, having these great conversations, like, what is life all about? What are we doing here? And what's the purpose? And then, you know, we're big science nerds because we're in in a, you know, a healthcare school. And so understanding quantum physics and biochemistry and physiology. And I was obsessed with like watching people navigate through life and trying to understand why they think the way they do, why they act the way they do, and what it did with their nervous system and their biochemistry. And yeah, so we fast forwarded to, you know, ending up dating slowly. That was really rocky. Again, I fell for him before he fell for me. And that didn't go that great. But then, you know, we're like, okay, we're gonna make this work. We graduated school, ended up getting engaged, and then life sort of started unraveling for us. Picked you in the teeth a little bit. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yes. And you know, he got into, we both actually with our working out, he got into like more heavier bodybuilding, started teaching guys how to train and bodybuild. I was doing fitness, um, but he got into steroids and got into performance-enhancing stuff. I didn't do that, but it was that was a progression into this whole other world of, you know, then in college, you don't go drink on weekends, you party in other ways, you don't want to gain body fat. So it led into party drugs and into that process, I felt him kind of slipping further and further away. And then one day, as we were, you know, living together, engaged, and you know, new in business, and all of a sudden, I one afternoon he was taking a nap in the bedroom, and I walk into our closet and found his phone. And back then it was a flip phone, because this was 20 years ago. I opened it and I started wanting to snoop and see what is going on. Why is he so distant? Of course, a woman's voice. I I got into his voicemail, which was wild. The woman's voice came across and said, Oh my gosh, Denny, I love you so much. I had so much fun last weekend. I can't wait until we can get together again. You're so funny. Um, I love you. Talk to you soon. And it was like, wow, my life left my body.

Kelly 24:40

I know that feeling. Uh, you do. Oh, yeah. It's interesting. I've ooh, I haven't shared this one yet with the listeners. So here we go. And I'll I'll be brief about it. But um, there was a relationship that I was in, and it was it was a relationship that, I mean, frankly, was very toxic. And there was um alcohol abuse on his side, which also led to me consuming more than I probably should, especially for my body weight. Having that just in our world almost every single weekend, right? And there was something about the nature of how he interacted with women, especially under the influence in front of me that just stirred me the wrong way. Like it, like all of the signals were going off in my head. And so there was enough of it that had continued to happen, and I would say something to him, and he'd, you know, schlough it off and maybe a titch of gaslighting as well through all of that. And I found myself in those very circumstances where because there was enough internally happening within me going, something's not right here, that I did do that. I would check his phone, I would find things. And you can tell even by the way that I'm responding right now, it's that was such a tough season of life. Yeah. Because it led me to do things that were so contradictory to who I am as a person.

Brenda 26:27

Yeah.

Kelly 26:29

And also be involved in things that were just so contradictory to who I am as a person as well. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly what happens. I feel you, Brenda. Continue. This is a great story.

Brenda 26:43

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that because uh anytime we bring anything that was in the darkness into the light, you know, we create all kinds of space and opportunity to see it differently, to heal it, to feel yourself differently.

Kelly 26:59

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I appreciate it. I can feel myself fidgeting right now. It was such a hard season of life.

Brenda 27:07

Yeah.

Kelly 27:08

So I again, I'm like right next to you right now in this because of that empathy piece.

Brenda 27:15

Yeah.

Kelly 27:16

Like I empathize with you completely. Okay. Keep keep going.

Rock Bottom, Numbing, And Consequences

Brenda 27:20

Yeah. Keep going. Well, that was like my of all the things I had just been through, the challenges, the hard things in life, you know, I veered into perfectionist syndrome, trying to be perfect in all the ways, to be liked, to be smart enough, to be pretty enough, to be uh accepted enough, to be liked. Um, you know, even back in middle school when we had to move to a new school from this little tiny town, my class of 16, to a bigger town, class of 130 something, I was bullied by a couple girls. And it wasn't even a lot of bullying. It was a little bit, but it was enough to make me deathly afraid of girls. I literally, not knowingly, signed this little soul contract that I girls don't like me. And I will just that's kind of partly the precursor to me having a boyfriend. And then that my boyfriend was like my life because it kept me safe away from girls at the time. And then I went to success is my next goal. And so um, you know, that was devastating. And so, fast forward to where I'm at now, trying to be perfect in all the ways so I could be loved and liked and successful and finally good enough in my life. And the guy who I like shared my soul to, who helped me heal and helped me figure out so many things in my life. Now he's gone too, is what it felt like. And I had this moment, I'll never forget standing there in the closet that day, where when I found that message and heard that, and how the blood and life just left my body and I felt so hollow. It was literally that deepest, darkest moment in my life where I had no idea who I was. I had no clue who I was anymore. And it, you know, what what did I do at that point? I walk out to the bedroom. I'm holding Dennis's phone and I ask the dumbest question, but it's the only thing that came to mind. And I looked at him and he saw I came over and he opened his eyes and looked at me holding his phone and I said, Are you cheating on me? And he did what any, you know, super thoughtful, kind-hearted guy would do is get up and throw his clothes on and leave without saying a word.

Kelly 29:53

I was not expecting that.

Brenda 29:56

Like this, I was like, what? Like, I remember walking out and seeing all of a sudden hearing the garage door shut and then seeing his car drive away. And I was like, what just happened? Like, yeah, and I was by myself there. Actually, I walked into our office. My sister and brother-in-law were actually staying with us at the time. He was an intern, and he was sitting there at the desk and I, the office desk, and I we weren't even super close. He was just a very shy guy. And I remember walking over to him and I said, Denny's cheating on me. And he looked at me. And in those moments, I mean, it wouldn't matter if he would have been a stranger or anyone else, but I've had a handful of those moments in my life where you look over at the other person and it's like you're soul to soul for a few moments. Like nobody's pretending to be anybody. You're just like, oh, yeah.

Kelly 30:52

And that's I can feel that right now with you, by the way. Yeah, I can feel that with you. Oh my gosh.

unknown 31:00

Yeah.

Brenda 31:00

Oh my gosh. Yeah. And it was, it was crazy. So, you know, the what happened then after that, I mean, I was so lost and alone. And, you know, this whole idea of me trying to be this super successful, look at me. I've got it going on, I've got it all figured out. I didn't want to let my parents down. I didn't tell them anything that was going on. I had two sisters that lived with us, and I shared it with them. They were devastated because he was, you know, they were so close to him too. And at that point, though, being tied together with him, our finances were tied together, our life was tied together. I thought, what am I gonna do? Like, where do I go? What do I do? I didn't know how to even navigate life without a partner. And I'm a mom, so it's like, how am I gonna do this? And literally, he was like, I gotta move out, you know. So he moved out, got an apartment. And because it felt like there was nothing left in me anymore, I was stuck between a rock and a hard place of I don't know how to figure my way through this, I don't know who I am. I actually still tried to make it work, even knowing he was cheating. And and I also was miserable then trying to stay and make it work. And that's when I numbed myself and I ended up being addicted to pain medication at that point because the pain was so much, and it that moment and that time period of just feeling like I have no idea who I am and what I'm gonna do, and this isn't what I had planned, and I don't know. So I'm gonna numb myself, I'm gonna numb the pain until I can figure out what to do here, Brenda.

Kelly 32:54

Think about the actual meaning behind a union, right? I mean, it's like two souls intertwining with one another almost like thread, right? And it becomes a union and you had begun that process, right? And then in in finding out about what was happening, the thread started to unravel. And when it's when you're so tight, you know, in that bond, that's never gonna be easy. Yeah, it's never gonna be easy at all.

A Phone Call, A Voice, And A Turning Point

Brenda 33:36

Yeah, I've had to, you know, it's so interesting because this is so many years ago, and I really worked hard. I'll kind of continue that story and share a little bit in the book I'm writing right now. Um, so Dennis and I, we were both just trying to navigate this whole thing, and then it got to be one weekend, a few weekends later, where he's like, Okay, I'm gonna go to this girl that I've been seeing, and I'm gonna tell her it's over and like this is it. And she lived in Chicago, and he's like, I'm just gonna drive down there. And it's like I knew in my gut though. I'm like, mm-hmm, really, I didn't trust it at all. And I remember him backing out of the driveway and me reaching in my pocket and numbing myself with medication, and like I just didn't know what to do. And yeah, that weekend was a turning point for me because I there something in me just snapped as if not everything had already been snapped, but where I was just like, Yeah, this is I'm done. Like, I can't, I can't do this anymore. And he, I my sister actually had friends over, and I met someone that was hanging out with them that weekend, and I was just a like a shell of a person, and he was just talking to me, and we started kind of hanging out and we're friends, and we kind of started dating. And so that was my I latched on to another, like, ooh, maybe this is my out, maybe this is my way. Like, I'm so weak. There's I what am I gonna do here? Like, I don't even have the courage to hold myself up. Maybe if I can use this other guy, and you know, at the time I wasn't like, I'm gonna use him, but it was, you know, we were dating, and I thought, well, maybe this is it, maybe this is the right guy, maybe uh this is the right person I'm meant to be with. And so a little of all of that confusion, and it was, you know, a few weeks into that, and Dennis, it was fourth of July weekend that year, and Dennis was like, What is going on? And I'm like, I'm seeing somebody else. No, you don't know him. It's a friend I met at the gym, and um, that fourth of July weekend, he's like, No, like I want to talk. He called my phone, he's blowing my phone up, and it was like, I'm just like, I'm done with you. I don't see any path out, like I'm just done. And that weekend, he just went on a bender and you know, used all kinds of substances, drink, ended up having what he calls an overdose and a near-death experience. Yeah, all of a sudden he called me four in the morning one night into that weekend, and he said, I know my life's purpose, I've seen the future, and I want to talk. I've realized I have screwed everything up, and I was just like, No, like I don't believe you, I don't trust you. And he's like, No, I I've got to share this part with you no matter what. And he said, you know, my apartment, I went into this darkness. Like, I think I died. And this voice came in, and it picked me up. You know, he's a big 200 and some pound bodybuilder at the time, carried him over to this desk in his apartment, and he started writing down like furiously everything this voice was saying. And it said things to him like, I'm gonna give you and Brenda a second chance. But you need to start teaching people what you know. And Dennis and I together in our lives were huge self-help junkies. Like he was studying different religions, he was born and raised Catholic. I was born and raised Catholic, but we're like, I don't know, that doesn't really make sense. It feels like there's inconsistencies in that. Self-help, what we could get our hands on, how to become successful, how to, you know, be happy, all these things. And so at that point, the voice said, You need to teach the world what you know that there's two voices, two thought systems, and one is based on fear and will take them one direction, and one is based on love and will take them completely off in another direction, but that they're the chooser. Every moment of every day, they're the chooser. And the voice showed him a lot of different things like the future, and the voice also said, You're gonna go to Eau Claire back to your mom and dad's this Sunday night at six o'clock, and you're gonna get clean cold turkey off of everything. And he said on the phone that night, you know, I want you to come meet me at six o'clock, and my I'm gonna go back home with my mom and dad for a week or however long. And I had already by this point now started getting visions myself, and I knew like I knew, like I knew, no, this is your path. This is something now you need to do, and I'm not going to be a part of it. And he, during writing all of this down that was coming through, the last thing he said was, I asked this voice finally, like, who is this? And you know, his mom is like a saint that walks the earth. She is just like the most beautiful woman, loves everyone, truly loves herself to love everyone the way she does, but very Christian, Bible-oriented, Catholic. And his dad is a was a math teacher, very critical thinker. Religion just didn't make sense to him. He just looked at the history of it all and thought, I'm not really playing this game, but he loves his wife. And so they, you know, went to church every Sunday. He just did whatever she wanted him to do, but he's like, I'm not so sure about this. And Dennis was kind of uh like his dad at that point. He's like, Yeah, I don't, I don't know what that's all about. Um, and so in that moment when he said, you know, who is this? The voice said to him, I am the one your mom calls Jesus.

Kelly 40:01

Oh, I am getting chills and like heat waves going through me right now. Yeah, like the feeling of love going through me right now. It is just so I I'm blown away. Yeah, I am blown uh away. And this is where I always am so open to who I have here on the podcast, no matter what belief system it is that they come to the podcast with their story, and I also go, how can you not believe that there is a God, like a true God, when stories like that happen? It's so tough. It's so tough for me, yeah.

Rebuilding Trust And Unexpected Pregnancy

Brenda 40:55

And yet I love meeting people where they're at with their beliefs. I even find that fascinating in my coaching practice, you know, even being able to use the word universe or God or light or mother nature, or you know, I love using whatever word makes sense to them. And women are, you know, pretty open to all kinds of ideas. Like if women don't like the word God, which I didn't for many years because I just felt, you know, we were the one thing my parents would do uh no matter what, is they always took us to church every Sunday, even when they were out drinking the night before. I can probably count on one hand the times we didn't go to church as a kid. And they even knew as we got older in high school, they'd say, Well, you can go out one night of the week, Friday or Saturday night. And if it's Saturday night, you know you're getting up to go to church or you're grounded. And so, but then I'd go to church and I would look around and I would feel like we just didn't fit in. You know, it just felt like we were, you know, our Sunday best was not the best. Let's just put it that way, with us being poor. And our little church at the time would publish at the end of the year how much each family gave to the church that year. And we were always either last or second to last. And I just felt so much guilt in that place. And yet I knew there was something good there, but so much of what I felt was a lot of judgment. Yeah. And it was so hard. And so, you know, fast forward to Dennis and you know, where this whole thing was at, uh, he went back to his mom and dad's that Sunday at six, and he stayed there a little over a week. And when he came back, because we worked together at the time, it was like felt like such a curse to be tied to this person to have to work with them while you're going through all of this heartache. But at the same time, uh, you know, I got to kind of watch a little bit from a distance, and when he came back into work, he looked 10, 15 years younger. Like his eyes sparkled, his skin looked so much more clear, and he would say things that were just out of this world. He would say to me, you know, Brenda, I love you so much, but I don't need you to love me back. So you do you. And if at any point you want to talk or anything, like I'm here. And that was shocking because right before this whole situation, I looked at him as this like sloppy, um, messy, you know, him needing me. I was like a codependent with him. Like it was just such a messy, icky situation. And To have him say things like that, that's when I felt like, whoa, whatever did happen completely changed him from the inside out. Oof dah.

Kelly 44:12

The power in a message like that is, you know, power can be construed in many different ways, right? But that sort of power is agency, agency of self, and just going, I know my truth, I know the truth, and I'm just gonna keep following this. And guess what? I love you dearly, and if you want to come along for the ride, great. If not, okay. Yeah. And to be able to just move in whatever direction you know is just the right one and see people around you either come along or not is powerful. Yeah. All I can think about is agency.

Brenda 45:05

Yeah. Sovereignty. I love that word too. Yeah, I've that's another phrase I love that's comparable to that is with the with or without you energy. I've shared that with my coaching clients a lot, women who are, you know, trying to barter these big deals or make big decisions in business and try to figure out, you know, maybe they're at the tail end of business and they're trying to figure out what's my exit strategy, what's my next steps, or wherever along the path they are. But if they enter into one of those conversations that are, you know, big deals, big opportunities with that with you or without you energy, this is where I'm going. This is where I see this could go. I mean, you are in such a powerful position. That's so cool.

Kelly 45:56

It's such a cool place to be in. I've been there before. I mean, to go back to paralleling where you were at with Dennis and the story that I shared too. There came a point where I was like, shit, or get off the pot. Pardon my French. Yeah. I'm going this direction with or without you. Your choice. Guess what? They're not with me.

Brenda 46:31

Yeah.

Kelly 46:32

And there is such like strength in being able to like have that kind of energy or feel that way, or say it in a specific way that you're just like, I see a different kind of future, and this is the future that I want, or this is the way that I see the business going. This is the way I want the business to go. Let's go. Yeah. Or not.

Brenda 47:00

Exactly.

Kelly 47:03

That's cool.

Brenda 47:04

Yeah.

Kelly 47:05

What a great share, by the way.

Brenda 47:06

Oh, of course.

Kelly 47:08

We're not finished with this story though yet.

Brenda 47:10

Keep going. Keep going. Yeah. So what happened after that is I was still able to witness him in his evolution of, you know, he wrote my family all apology letters. And again, it was that with or without you. It wasn't, he wasn't at all trying to convince me of anything. He wasn't trying to push anything at all. It, and it was so, it felt like such freedom for me to be able to just, you know, kind of be with myself and look at what was going on with him. And, you know, it's interesting because of this book I'm writing. I just had to reflect on this in another specific way. Because, you know, just when you think you've healed stories, a lot of times it's like multi-layered and it can come up again in your life. I mean, I hear that from my business coaching clients all the time. They'll say, Oh, I don't know if I want to go talk about my mom again. Like, I've done so much work around this. Please tell me I don't have to go talk about my mom again. And I'm like, you don't, unless you need to. Yeah. You know? And so what I think that time period did for me was I was trying to see myself and understand and know myself with Dennis as like a mirror up until that point, where okay, I'm good enough, I'm worthy enough, I'm smart enough, I'm this, I'm that, and the other thing. Because look, I'm like, I have this great partner. And then when that all fell through, then it was like he stepped out of the way of the mirror now for me to look back at myself. And I didn't know who I saw. And it was time for me to do the work.

Kelly 48:57

Yeah.

Five Kids, A Practice, And Repair

Brenda 48:58

And yeah, it was several months into, you know, I ended up, you know, not being with that guy who I was dating anymore. And Dennis and I just kept talking little by little. And he was really, it was like almost back to the days of just helping me navigate things. Um, and you know, we were trying to kind of slowly make it work, and it was such an interesting time because I was learning so much about myself, and yet it was so difficult whenever my reflection, like when I looked over at him again, for so long, all I could see was the pain. And it was like I was looking at two different people. I saw the the part of him that, you know, didn't need me and who could sit and help me navigate feelings and work through them. But then I would through the lens of fear, I would go back into fear in my eyes and in my heart, and then just see the pain that this person felt like caused me. But I I was able to look at that pain through such a deeper perspective, and I started to ask myself questions like what if I had to go through that exact same situation that I did. What if I put myself through this situation from like my soul agreed to something before I even came here? And my soul was saying, Okay, Brenda, I want you to be strong, but I want you to understand strength from being a completely weak and broken perspective, like not just to get strength to get strength, but like really understand how to rebuild yourself, your identity, who you know yourself to be from truth, not from fear. And as I started shifting and putting a different lens on things, like irregardless if it was, you know, uh James, Jack, John, Dennis, whoever there, it I knew this part of the journey was about me and what am I here to learn about myself. And so yeah, we were navigating this, just we talked and talked and talked, and you know, we became closer for sure. But there was a moment when I'm like, I just can't do this anymore. Like I can't see past this. And it was one day we were in our kitchen standing around the kitchen table, and I was crying, and he was crying, and he's like, Okay, definitely not gonna make you do anything you don't want to do. Like, I am just here for you and whatever that capacity looks like. Um, it's pouring rain outside, I'll never forget this day. And you know, we get the doorbell rings, and I'm like, Oh my gosh. And he goes over and sees that it's a couple of like young guys in their 20s at the door again, pouring rain outside. He opens the door, and Dennis being who he is, he lets him in, you know, it's raining. Has him come sit in the living room. I'm like wiping my eyes, like, you've got to be kidding me, like bad timing. And I go sit down in the living room by him, and you know, they talked for a little bit, they were Jehovah's Witness people coming around.

Kelly 52:18

I was like, I think I know where this is going.

Brenda 52:22

And they talked for a little bit, and I just sat there and I'm just like, Oh, I just want this to be done with. And um, Dennis turned to them and said, You know, what's your point of coming here today? Like, what is your main message? And they looked at each other and they looked at us, and the one guy said that families should stick together. And Dennis and I looked at each other and we both started crying. And it was like a week later we found out that we were pregnant. You can't you can't make this stuff up with our son Braden, and he was like the glue that kept us talking, kept us because you know, here I am terrified. Like, oh, you've got to be kidding me. Like, I just want to walk away from this because there's so much pain. And yet, like the divine had a difference. Like, don't give up, stick in this a little longer. I mean, we even named Brayden. We took the our son Brayden, we took the first three letters of my name, the first three three letters of Dennis's name, and we put a Y in the middle, like why we stuck together longer to learn to grow. And yeah, he's been, he's just turned 19. He's a total blessing. And after that, and you know, Dennis carried me for a couple of years until I learned how to forgive not only him, but forgive myself. That was the biggest wake-up call for me was to forgive myself for all of the mistakes I had made in my life, for all the ways I was trying to be perfect and trying to be someone for someone else, and not being the person I needed to be for me. And you know, a year and a half later, Brody came, and another year and a half later, Bo came, and then a shorter time than that, Brianna came, and you know, they're now Braden's 19, Brody's 17, Bo is 15, and Brianna's 13.

Kelly 54:30

Try to keep keep my notes going here. Keep up, keep up, Kelly. Wow, Brenda. Now you had mentioned that you were working together. Now, was this because I I know you had have a chiropractic office. So was that the the beginning of the chiropractic office together?

Brenda 54:53

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, we started it. Well, Dennis actually bought a teeny little practice from another doctor who had like three patients at the time, and then I was working for another chiropractor, and then eventually joined him, and we thought, well, let's build this practice together. Um, but as life happens, life goes on no matter what you're doing with your business, building a business, growing a business, trying to exit a business. Uh, it doesn't mean that your personal life stays still or holds to do the work you need to do with a business. So it was, it was not an easy path. It was such a rough road.

Kelly 55:36

You have you, I feel like you're just hitting the tip of the iceberg here, but like that that's absolutely incredible. The navigation through all of that, also working alongside the person that you know ultimately felt like such a huge betrayal had happened between the two of you. Yeah. Doing business together. That's wild. You you made this note about how our personal lives basically don't care. I should say our business doesn't care about our personal lives, is the way that I wanted to phrase that. And I'd love to just step into where you were at when it came to, for lack of better words, um, substance abuse and how you navigated through that different kind of world, right? I mean, it's alcohol versus hard drugs versus painkillers. I frankly, this is like a untapped world for me when it comes to like drugs of that sort. Like wine, I've had my fair share of wine. I mean, I shared, I gave you a glimpse into that when I was with this individual. But let's talk through that. Yeah. I do want to hear just a little bit more about that because that's that's some heavy stuff that you shared. And then also navigating that as a mother, too. And then also succumbing to um, you know, utilizing painkillers to kind of cope through some of that.

Substance Use, Hypocrisy, And Quitting

Brenda 57:25

Yeah. Yeah, it was a brutal time where the hypocrisy was so high. The like here I am over here, promoting, you know, natural health and like lifestyle, wellness, and trying to be and live the part, and then feeling like I had the secret life over here of just trying to navigate and figure out who I was, and you know, this world of partying and competing, and it was just the like the craziest time ever. Luckily, in there was like the one, there was one year in there where it was the hardest, and it was flanked by one summer and then ended the next summer. And Mackenzie luckily was back in South Dakota with her dad most of those summers while I was navigating the hardest, and especially the second summer, actually. And so it was really brutal being a mom and knowing, you know, that I was like just partying too much, and it just does something, it splits you, it splits you in half because you're like over here, you're trying to survive what feels like survive, and over here you're trying to, you know, be a mom, be a business owner, do the things that you know you need to do to survive in another way in this world. And so, yeah, I mean, during the party phase, I kind of did whatever I did in the party phase. I didn't get into like the deeper, darker, you know, like heroin or like any of those things, but definitely some of the other party drugs I did. And then when it came to numbing myself with the pain medication, uh my wake-up call from that was when I was actually dating that guy for a few weeks after Dennis had left, and he found my medication, and that was terrifying for me to be found out about more than my reliance on the numbing medication because he confronted me. I remember walking into the room and he was holding it and he said, What are you doing? This isn't you, and I said, You're right, and I quit. Cold turkey, like, no, I was found out about it. My little deep dark. I was confronted.

Kelly 59:57

Oh, that's tough. It's tough no matter what the circumstances, right? Whether it's it's something like that, that I mean it ultimately could continue down this path of fear, right? Like a part of that is is following that voice of fear. Exactly. Instead of love. And that could have become so much worse. Yeah, right. So whether it's something like that or it's it's micro habits, right? I think of the the times that my husband has kind of thrown something up at me, like, what are you doing? You know, and it's it's pointing out this microhabit that if continued could be kind of detrimental to like progressing in a in a much better direction. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like, what are you doing? And you're like, oh, I didn't realize that you knew about that or that it was obvious. Yeah. You know, you're like, it stuns you.

Brenda 1:01:04

Yeah. Yeah. And the alternative for me was, oh my gosh, well, I'm not that bad. I'm not gonna like go go and go through treatment because only people really bad do that. And it was like, oh my gosh, again, the judgment and right in my face. And I'm like, nope, that's not me. I don't do that. Gone. Proud of you. Yeah, thank you.

Kelly 1:01:27

I mean, it sometimes it's not that easy for for individuals who are perhaps in a very similar walk of life, and you know, that perhaps it's a longer amount of time, or there are other onion layers to why they have decided to do that, where it's like much more challenging to be able to cut it cold turkey.

Brenda 1:01:52

Yeah.

Kelly 1:01:52

So I'm very proud of you. Yeah, thank you. One of the questions that I have, we're kind of all over the place, but I feel like this this is kind of a necessary question at this point in our venture. Do you feel like the path you have walked provides you in insight to seeing flags, red flags in your own clients?

Brenda 1:02:21

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Coping mechanisms, uh, hiding. Um, you know, women just trying so hard, so hard to be good, do good, be successful, do what it takes. And and sometimes it feels like, you know, at all costs, and the cost, in my opinion, should never be ourselves. And so that's been an incredible journey. You know, I could say, you know, I'll I actually met a new potential client today, and she's like, What do you do? Like, how how are you a business coach? And I said, Yeah, I mostly work with female entrepreneurs, um, also some C-suite executives, different stages of business, are usually really high-achieving, driven, wannabe successful people. They want to create and grow incredible businesses with unapologetic success, like abundance, and yet they do not want to give up their own personal growth or sacrifice themselves in the process. And they want really incredible loving relationships at home. And that for me is like me where I was at back then. You know, I'm broken, but I'm trying to grow this business. And it's like, what am I doing? But yet I want to like, I know I'm doing good in the world. I know I'm helping other people heal, but look at me. And it's like, yeah, no, all of you is welcome here. All of you deserves to take a seat at the table and learn and grow and evolve. And, you know, if you want to grow your business, let's grow you, and I can guarantee your business will grow.

Coaching Emerges Inside Chiropractic

Kelly 1:04:15

I love that. My husband has been working with a business coach, and ironically, now that I'm like fully entrenched in the real estate business, he's now become like quasi my coach too. So it's it's amazing, and I love it and I love him dearly. And also, he has always said for any individual that he's coaching, um, he always quotes, because he's got a podcast too, which by the way, we'll talk about this idea that you've got rummaging around in your head right now. Um, happy brokers sell more real estate is like his motto. I love it. Happy brokers sell more real estate. And I love it. I mean, it's just such it's a broad stroke, right? Yeah. But then as he talks through the podcast or he's having his calls with his clients, he's always talking about what does that mean?

unknown 1:05:19

Yeah.

Kelly 1:05:20

And it's it's amazing. And I think about what you're speaking to. It's like, we're gonna work on the self. Yeah, we've gotta work on the self.

Brenda 1:05:29

Yeah, because if everything outside of you, which I firmly believe is an outer representation of really your inner world and what you believe and decide to be true about yourself and the stories you tell your yourself, then where are we gonna go? You know, we could move all these parts and pieces outside you. And, you know, how many times have we heard those stories where, you know, someone's like super successful and, you know, it looks like they have everything figured out financially, and yet they're miserable. Or they're struggling, or they're just like, I thought it was going to be better than this. I thought when I hit this, I'd be so happy. And it's like, yeah, you've, you know, kind of we're working, you're you worked from the outside in. When what if we worked from the inside out where it's a win-win-win? Good for you, good for me, good for all of us. And your business gets to grow too. And you get to create incredible success without sacrificing any part of you along the way. It's all welcome. It all gets to come.

Kelly 1:06:35

That was so good. Man, that one hit real hard. And it like in a such an impactful, powerful way. Not hard in the way like, ooh, I need to learn from that. Like that is that's like mic drop moment right there. So you have you have talked about how you're coaching, right? But we've also talked about the chiropractic business too. So let's fill the gap for the listeners.

Brenda 1:07:08

Yeah.

unknown 1:07:09

Yep.

Brenda 1:07:10

So I, you know, way back then was still practicing, then started having all these babies. And then by, you know, I I had such a hard time going back to work after Braden was born because I just, I'm such a mama bear. I can't leave my babies. And it's like, oh, and so Dennis knew, you know, when I was home still at month six, that I don't know if she's ever gonna come back. And I said, well, maybe if I get a nanny, like someone who could come to our house. And so that's what we did. I had a very part-time nanny. I only worked part-time, to be honest, with my chiropractic schedule. So it was, you know, Braden and then Brody. And then as Bo came along, I was like, all right, I need to be home. I just want to take a little time off and be home with the rest of them. And then Brianna came along. And I also want to say it wasn't like we're just falling all over in success and money that I could take that time off either. It was a concerted uh decision and effort to do that because then Dennis was there managing it all, doing it all, like trying to manage people. And you know, we all have our strengths, we all have our weaknesses. It was a challenge for him. And but I loved being at home with my babies. And yet, there came a time, and my youngest, Brianna, was three, where I was like, okay, I hit the point. Yes, I want adult interaction, and I feel like the kids are stable enough, they're good enough, like, what can I do? And we ended up buying a practice from a doctor retiring, so basically just purchased his files and I came back into practice two and a half days a week. And my oldest daughter was in college at the time and babysat, and you know, I wasn't very long into that, where I was like, oh, there's still something more here. And what I hadn't shared is that back when I was pregnant actually with Braden, I started having patients, you know, in the ways that I was helping them, which is of course physically with the adjustment. And then as I, in all of my, you know, rock bottoms with everything I had just gone through, I studied everything I could get my hands on of personal development, self-help, relationships, like what, what do I need to do to heal? Like uh it was just everything. And so I was starting to help patients with their personal struggles, their business struggles. And then they would ask me for time outside of the adjustment, like, hey, Brenda, I love talking to you. Can I just meet you outside of the adjustment and pay you for your time? And I'm like, sure. I had no idea, you know, that was actually like what coaching was. Um, and I did that even when I stayed home with my young kids. I would have a handful of women who would text me, hey Brenda, can we meet for a coaching session? I'm like, sure. That was the thing I would like to leave my children for to go coach these women. And then it just kind of slowly grew over time. And then when I got back into practice, realizing, oh my gosh, I really, really want to grow this coaching business. I took a program in the fall of 2016 and joined this whole coaching program 2017, 18. It was such an incredible time in my life because I was really coming out of being at home with these young children. But in that program, I got to travel four different destinations around the world each year for two years and meet up with these group of women. We're all being coached and learning about the business side, but then learning about our own personal development. And I remember the very first destination was in Maui, Hawaii that spring of 2017. And it was a three-day workshop. And I'm meeting with these women, I was terrified. I remember going to Nordstrom, like, somebody help me. I don't know what people even wear anymore. Like, how am I gonna do this? These women are incredible, they're from everywhere, and I'm gonna be at this event. And I remember sitting in the room with all these amazing women and basically being coached, and I cried the whole time. Like, I couldn't stop crying. I'm like, what's wrong with me? And it was a moment of realizing I was doing something I so loved, and I was doing something for myself that was truly for me. And I knew it was the beginning of something really incredible. But, you know, I had guilt, I was leaving the kids at home, guilt, I was spending the money on this coaching and like all the things with it, but I was just like so excited to be there, and I think it was just tears on many different levels.

Kelly 1:11:44

Okay. I just want to spend a hot second here. Remember that soul contract that you made with yourself when you were a younger gal? About you literally were in like surrounded by other women. Do you feel like there was like just this like tearing of that contract subconsciously?

Leaving Practice To Build Coaching

Brenda 1:12:05

Yes, a hundred million percent. And why is because as I looked around, these women were my favorite people in the world. They were doing what I was doing, they were growing, working on themselves, evolving, trying to figure out how to get out of their own way. They wanted to grow incredible businesses. Um, the it wasn't like none of us drank at these events. Like it was, we were all just so excited to be working on ourselves. And I met the most amazing women that are still my friends to this day. That is what broke the seal to for me to see and realize women do like me and I like them and like I love them, and we're in it together. And yes, I was literally, you know, in my late 30s when that happened, when I finally started like letting women back into my life and thinking it was safe to do that.

Kelly 1:13:00

It's never too late, right? Right, it's never too late for anything. Oh, that's so cool. I just had to kind of bring that full circle because that is, I mean, I perhaps that was just completely subconscious, like sub sub subconscious, where you're having these like emotional reactions and tears are just flowing and stuff. I've had those moments too where I'm like, What why am I even crying right now? I don't even know why I'm crying, but there's something subconsciously that you're just working out. Yes, that's so cool. It's so powerful to have that kind of reaction to. Yes. And then also go, why am I crying right now? I just can't even put into words. So I wrote something down and it I wrote it down like this the the beauty of seasonal shifts.

Speaker 1 1:13:51

Yeah.

Kelly 1:13:52

You're shaking your head. So I you you know where I'm probably going with this, Brenda, but I loved that you shared that yeah, you were in business, like in business with Dennis, and you're still in business with Dennis, correct? Yeah. Like that's the practice is still going if memory serves me, right? And that you had that moment where you were like, I just want to be mom. I just want to be mom and stay home. I I'm sure that there were some emotions around like, yes, you know, like I do want, I do want something down the line. Like right now, this is what God's calling me to do is be mom. Yeah. And then to have another seasonal shift where it was like, there is time for something different. Yep. And you're having you're working in the chiropractic business, arguab, arguably, mom is, you know, motherhood, and that's number one. Yeah. That's number one.

Brenda 1:15:01

Yeah.

Kelly 1:15:02

And then all of a sudden, you have this beautiful shift that is happening where you have women coming to you and going, I love what you're, I love your energy, I love how you have phrased things, I love how you coached me through that. Can I spend time with you? And I'll pay you for it. So you were literally at that point in time dabbling your toe in that water. I'm just so curious. Did you have any hesitations? And how did you even like come to like this conclusion of like this is what I should charge?

Brenda 1:15:41

Yeah. Oh, I know that. Oh my gosh, has that been a journey? Because I would say, you know, through all of these transitions and these shifts, it's not that fear doesn't come along for the ride. I mean, I feel like I've been terrified along the way. And yeah, I mean, I so my family, when I decided, so in that coaching program, I was still practicing. So I was, you know, being mom, learning the coaching world of things, but in my own personal development, practicing. And then finally, as it got to like 2018 and to 19, I was really starting to have a hard time going in and just working as a chiropractor. I felt like I wasn't like living up to my full calling. And I love chiropractic, like I loved it. I love my patients. I had been with me going on 20 years. And so, but I knew, and my husband knew he was, you know, he would look at me and just say, you know, you need to keep exploring this other world of coaching. Because I kind of started to get a little angry, a little resentful. And I did it to myself because I was the one telling myself, okay, you well, you can't leave your patience, you can't leave your income, you can't leave this practice. You've built it. Like that would be so selfish. That would be so terrible of you to do that. And it was really hard, even um, with my mom and dad, when I said, you know, I think I want to do this more. And they're like, Why would you do that? Like, start over, kind of. And I'm like, you know, how do you explain that to someone when they're looking at purely the financial thing? Like that doesn't make sense that you would question it. Like, you'll you're gonna go down to, you know, like close to zero and then start over again. And then like Dennis is gonna like hold the fort together, and you've got all these kids, and like, what are you doing? And but I just I just knew more and more. The more I denied it, the more painful it got. And then COVID hit in 2020, and it was a time when the whole world slowed down, and I saw my um escape route, if you want to call it that. And again, it wasn't that Dennis was highly encouraging. He's like, Well, figure it out. We always figure it out. You need to follow your passion, do what you love. And in the meantime, he's been coaching on the side, coaching his clients, coaching, you know, patients. Um, but it was a really hard transition because I felt like, uh, what if I can't do this? What if this doesn't end up being what I thought it was gonna be from a financial perspective? And yeah, I was just like taking whatever anybody would pay me at first, and then I was like, okay, um, you know, how to set your rates was a section in our coaching program. And it's like you're just grabbing numbers, is what it felt like. Uh, 50 bucks a session, a hundred, I don't know. But that was a huge personal growth. And then, you know, it just you it grows and evolves. And I think I had to witness my own um abilities to see what I could do with my coaching, um, and see women have incredible results, but I was still only doing it part-time because I was, you know, still a full-time mom. Yeah. I wanted to take my kids to school every day, pick them up every day. Um, if they were sick, I wanted to be able to go get them from school. And so, you know, and then this whole weird thing called social media was like, oh, put your stuff out there. And I was like, oh my gosh, I'm scared. Like, I don't want to be judged. I've gone through this really rough path, and I haven't had a straight beeline to success. And I'm, you know, and I again, even on the the side of success, I feel like I'm just getting started with my coaching business, even though I've achieved a level of success. I have big plans and what I want to do, and I'm like, let's go. So that's so beautiful, Brenda.

Speaker 1 1:19:36

Yeah.

Kelly 1:19:37

And how beautiful for you to go. Like, I just feel like you've you've got you have the foundation, right? It's very evident that you've got the foundation, and it's it is the foundation of how you have been coaching already, and the lived life experiences.

Brenda 1:20:01

Yeah.

Kelly 1:20:02

That there is something to be said about the lived life experiences in many different facets that you can pull from and be able to mentally reference and then be able to turn around to that that woman that you're coaching and go, what about this? Yeah, how about this?

A Course In Miracles And Ego Work

Brenda 1:20:28

Oh my gosh, so true. And you know, I love the saying. So along Dennis and my journey, there was a part when we were both, you know, it's so crazy, we're both sitting there, kind of miserable, but kind of trying to figure this all out again, studying everything we could get our hands on. Um, and there was a point where a course of miracles came into our lives, and that is still like my guiding force to this day, to be honest. Um, I love it so much. And I didn't at first. Dennis started reading it at first. He kind of had struggles with it, and he had kind of like a second awakening, um, a moment in 2006 that like opened him up to even more depth. And after that awakening, he picked up A Course in Miracles and read it like it was just music to his ears. And, you know, I'm like changing diapers and taking care of kids, and he's over there reading this book, and I'm like, put that dang book down, like get over here and help me with this. And then it was, I remember I was pregnant with Bo, and I remember sitting down with that book at that time, and all of a sudden opening it up. And, you know, it's cool in that book where it has a really big, thick text part, like the textbook, and then it has a workbook for students, and then in the back it has a manual for teachers. And even to this day, if somebody mentions or I share a course in miracles and they're like, Oh, I want to read it. How where do I start? I always say start with the workbook, it's easier, it's digestible. Um, and I remember starting with the workbook back then, and I had this revelation of instead of me doing, so it was one daily lesson for each day of the year, instead of me doing the lesson, what if I let the lesson do me? And it was just this energy that came over me. And every little bit more that I read of that book, I started to understand more. And it then it was like it was singing to me, and I'm like, what is going on? I'm like, this is what Dennis felt, and it is really like a huge manual for your own personal development and growth, um, but in such a deep, profound way that it just like knocks you out of your day-to-day living into something so powerful and so deep. Um, and yeah, so that was a book that kind of like opened me up on this path and made me really be able to look back at my life. And it it says in that book, you know, it talks a lot about the ego, which is this fearful, thought-based identity that lives inside of each of us and tricks you into believing that it's you, takes you over, manipulates you, makes you think that the fearful thoughts are yours. That's fear, versus what love is, which is living from your truth and your your divinity and your light. Um and it says, you know, what what the ego used to put you into darkness or to make you feel guilt and shame, that divinity will come in and use the exact same thing and help bring you into the light with it. And that's when with this coaching work where I was able to start looking back at all these painful moments in my life where I felt like I was failing as a mom, failing as a daughter, failing as a business owner, failing as a wife, failing as just a woman as a human being. And I looked at each one of those from such a different perspective when I could bring that into my coaching world and say, hey, I've been there and this is what I learned. And I felt like I could quantum leap a woman from like where she was at in it to something, a place so powerful, which again is the divinity that lives inside each of us. And then from that point, I felt like, okay, I'm kind of coming along for the ride that this coaching is way beyond me. Like um things come through me that I know I didn't know before I said, and it's been such a beautiful ride.

Kelly 1:24:34

Thank you for sharing that. I'm gonna make sure to drop that book as a resource mentioned as well. One part I want to go back to is talk myself and the listeners through business and motherhood and what you feel are parallels between the two.

Brenda 1:24:57

Everything.

Kelly 1:25:02

Amen, sister.

Business Through The Lens Of Motherhood

Brenda 1:25:04

Yeah, everything. And it's so funny. I use motherhood a lot in my coaching when women, so it's interesting how, and you know, I have a whole program around this where I feel like we women have so gotten into an over-masculine nature in our businesses and in our lives, where we have, you know, tried so hard to run businesses and do business like men do, because that's what's been modeled to us and that's what we've seen. Um, that we have totally lost touch with our own divine feminine nature. And yet, that divine feminine is our superpower, and it will help you create not only a successful business, but a business and career beyond anything you ever thought possible. We're not meant to do things how men do them. We have our own way of doing them, and yet sometimes I have to pull women's perspectives then out of their business from that masculine nature and find ways to bring in the feminine. And I'll say things like, you know, what if you looked at your business as something that wasn't personal? And like your business is owned by the divine, and you're like an incredible steward of this business, and you get to, you know, bring it along for the ride, and it's not all of you, it's just one arm of the multiple arms of who you are as a beautiful being here, and even that can pull people's people's perspectives out of their business in the little kind of smaller mindset of the way we'll look at things and how things could be done, and it will blast their minds wide open to seeing it in a different way. And like motherhood, I mean, uh, if there's been anything that has humbled me more other than this entrepreneur journey in two different businesses, it's motherhood, where I'm just like, you know, just when you think you know something, you are just like completely back on your back again, on your heels, like you don't know what you're doing again with this. I mean, kids grow, they evolve, and it's like, I think we're meant to grow and evolve right with them. Oh, yeah. Um, and so yeah, sometimes it's like I I've said this to a woman the other day when she is just, you know, she's got a multi-million dollar business, but it's, you know, she we all hit these plateaus, these spots where it's like, oh my gosh, what do I need to do now? What? And things didn't go exactly the way I thought. And I realized that she was struggling as the salesperson of her own business, which is so easy to do. It's hard for me to do too, because when it's your business, it feels like, oh my gosh, it's you, you're selling you. Um, but I saw it very clearly for her, and I said, and she has a son, and I said, you know. What if this were your son's business? And you're walking into these conversations in these conferences, and you know what incredible, an incredible business he has. And you're just going to start telling people about your son's business. How would you feel? What would you say? How would you react differently? And it lit something up in her. And she was like, couldn't wait to get off the call because she wanted to go make those phone calls to the people that she had on her list and she wanted to call and you know present a bigger contract to or ask them for more business. And it was just a huge breakthrough for her. And so everything is related with motherhood in our business.

Kelly 1:28:47

Yeah, I mean, there is nothing like having children and realizing just how much ego you had, how selfish you are, were, were with, you know, prior to having children. I think about I oftentimes refer to the different the two different people that I was before children and now having my own child and bonus children. And just how I'm air quoting, independent I was.

Speaker 1 1:29:26

Yeah.

Kelly 1:29:27

Which was just another term for I was selfish. I was very selfish. And this is just me personally, um, coming from my own lived life life experiences, but also in becoming a bonus mom and then becoming a mom, how much children hold up a mirror to you.

Brenda 1:29:48

Oh my gosh.

Kelly 1:29:50

So true. Oh, it is fun, it is humbling, it is incredible. I want to talk just a little bit more about this divine femininity. Tell me a little bit more about how, as a woman who's listening right now, maybe a couple quick tangible things that they can take away and and start to implement within their business as it pertains to this.

Brenda 1:30:25

Yeah. So kind of a good way of looking at it is the masculine. And again, we have both these energies in us. It's not a male-female thing at all. Um, you know, this is something newer I've learned in my practice the last few years, mostly when my husband went through another couple, couple years of a dark night of the soul. Of, you know, he has, we have been creating incredible intellectual property together, like these programs that come through our meditations and downloads. And then he hit a phase where all of a sudden it was like, hey, Dennis, how come you're not further ahead in your life than you thought you were? How come you're not teaching more of this to others? How come you're not uh, you know, sharing more of this with the world? If it's so great, if it's so good, and something like rattled loose in him. And I had to, during those couple years, excuse me, I had to kind of take the reins on a lot in our life. It felt like I was like running both businesses, taking care of the kids, making all the appointments, running the household, just taking care of everything to the point where I started getting really resentful and really angry. And I started paying attention, of course, to my clients and their relationships. And it seemed like almost every woman I was running into was saying, Oh my gosh, I feel like I'm this incredible woman doing all these things, feeling so empowered. And I'm like running everything. And my husband feels like as I'm rising, he's falling.

Kelly 1:32:06

Oh, I see where you're going with this. Yeah.

Balancing Masculine And Feminine Energy

Brenda 1:32:09

And they're like, I see. What do I do with this? Like now women are becoming the breadwinners, and like what's going on with our men. And so a couple years ago, then I did this whole deep dive on it. And it was really, I already knew and understood a little bit about the masculine-feminine energy, but really took a deep dive then and tried to study everything I could get my hands on with it to understand this and everything I do, everything I go through, literally, like me on my worst days where I'm struggling, I'm constantly thinking, okay, when a client goes through this, here I am in this moment. What can I do? What can I do to work my way out of it? Where am I at? And how can I help? So I feel like I'm constantly auditing myself and looking for ways to teach this to someone else. Um, but yeah, so Dennis and I completely got off in our masculine, feminine dynamics with ourselves and with each other. So the masculine energy in us is it's the driver, it's the doer, it's the checklist, the check list, like check things off the list, checkbox. Um, it is the, you know, speak, push, um, get things done, productive goal setting, like all of that very driven side of us. That is the more the masculine. The women, the or I should say the feminine, that side of us is more of the leaning back, the listening, the feeling, the you know, waiting until we get an idea, get a clue, get a nudge, um, allowing. It's such a really beautiful part of who we are. And I noticed back then and with myself, how I became this like driver and become so masculine. Like, I got this, don't worry about it, I'll take care of it. I've got this, I can handle this. Look at me, go, wow, look at me, go. And I was like, I started thriving on it and started feeling like, wow, I'm so powerful, I'm so empowered. And I realized through my financial world, through my world of intimacy, through my just relationship world, even parts of that with my children, that I had totally lost touch with my feminine. I was the leader, I was the driver, I was the pusher. And even though Dennis was just going through some difficult things, um, I needed to be able to lean back and get myself back in balance, one, to even give him the space to rise up again in his masculine because I was just overbearing. I was over-dominant. And at first, I thought when I started this program I put together called Masculine Feminine, I always get these downloads and these ideas, and then I'll throw like a masterclass out there and like let's talk about this, and then I'll create a program out of it. And like, here, let's, let's, here's what I've come up with for solutions. And at first it was like, how are we gonna fix these men? What's going on with the men in the line? What is happening with these men? My gosh, like, keep up with us women. And then the more I sat with it and the more I studied, and the more I just reflected and meditated on it, I'm like, oh my gosh, what part have we women played in this? And oh my goodness, was it such a revelation and a softening? And I realized I started practicing it without like telling my husband I was practicing it, and I started asking him for help. I started leaning back, I started giving him space where he could lean in and come towards me without getting ridiculed or saying you're not doing it right, or you know, feeling some harsh judgment from me. And then it was like, oh my gosh, how can I soften into the money part? How can I soften into the intimacy part and what that's where that had gone awry in our lives? And yeah, I learned so much. And so, yeah, I we there's a time and a place for each one.

Speaker 1:36:32

Sure.

Brenda 1:36:33

We know in our businesses when we need to like get in action and produce and do things and you know, check the boxes and do all the things. But gosh, if we're solely leading from that place, which to be honest, most of us women are, at least from what I've uh witnessed, um, we are selling ourselves short of our power, of our grace, of that really beautiful intelligence that we women carry in us called our gut and our intuition. And oh my goodness, is that attached to so much more money than we realize? Wow.

Kelly 1:37:13

Jotting notes down because that's pretty incredible. I'll do a little bit of deep dive on my on my end into that. And I I've been hearing not a ton, but it's just like every so often there's just these little drips of like the divine feminine versus the masculine part of us as women. And frankly, I just I kind of shluffed it off. Like, I understand that there is both of these that live within us, but how do you navigate through them as well? And so interesting insight that you provide. Yeah, very interesting.

Brenda 1:37:57

It is so good. Like, even this, like, I would love to just share that course with you, the modern feminine, and just have you give me some feedback on it because um, you know, I my goal with everything, with all the work that I do and the programs I create, the school of self-worth I created and sent uh uh had a group of women go through that. I want to just open people's minds with these programs. And it's really not like, well, here let me tell you at all, at all. It's here's what I've discovered. What do you think? Here's what I've explored, how does this feel to you? And that is the divine feminine way for us to learn too. It nobody wants to be told things, but we want to be open to new ideas and we want to try them on ourselves and then see what comes out of that for us.

Kelly 1:38:53

I'm having these little ping, ping like epiphanies that are happening right now. So thank you. Yeah, you and I off-air will circle back to that. We've covered a lot of ground, Brenda. I think it's time to start landing the plane, as I like to call it. So I have a few more questions for you. What is a piece of advice that you would give a younger version of yourself? Having lived through all that you've lived through now, how would you grab her hand and talk to her?

Brenda 1:39:35

I love this. I actually use this exact scenario in my coaching at times when I feel like we need to heal that younger version of us that comes up and comes up in us sometimes, you know, angry and ranting and raving, and she just wants a little love, a little attention. She wants to know she's safe. I would want to tell my younger version of myself that in all of the things that you're going to walk through and go through that you are so safe. You will make it to the other side. You are so loved. But learn how to begin to love yourself.

Kelly 1:40:18

Would that advice be the same for would it be same or different for a woman who's listening right now who let's let's grasp onto this feminine versus masculine. They're they're they're struggling with their femininity. I'm totally like struggling over that word. Yeah. Yeah. But um, you know where I'm where I am going with that.

Brenda 1:40:46

You know, it would be similar for sure, because I can tell you in just my experience for with myself and the women that I've supported so far in this journey. You know, how do we get over masculine in our energy? It's because we don't feel safe. And we feel like what we're doing is going to give us that feeling, that energy, that attention, that love that sometimes we don't know how to give to ourselves. And so, women, I think more than anything, crave the feeling of feeling safe. And I think for sure, and you've heard this from many different people, I'm sure, that we all deserve to feel seen and heard and know that we matter at every stage. And I honestly really love and share this with women a lot, where I kind of feel like we all have this boardroom in our minds and our hearts, and every younger version of us deserves to have a place at that table. That's a new one.

Kelly 1:41:57

I love that visualization.

Brenda 1:42:01

Yeah. And pull out a seat for her, that part of us that at five, we were scared, we didn't know if we fit in, we didn't know if we were safe, that middle schooler, high schooler who just wanted to not be looked at as different or weird, or just wanted to know that she was okay. Those versions come up in our lives in the most craziest inopportune times in our businesses too. And I'm always welcoming her. And it's not easy because I, you know, we I wanted to run from her. I thought she's my problem. All those ver earlier versions of me are my problem, and I need to run from her. Like, get out of here. I don't need you here now. But I kind of call it my park bench analogy, like all my coaching clients know this analogy to bring that younger version of you forward, sit down on the park bench with her, and ask her, what are you here to share with me? What do you want me to know? What are you scared of? And you get to be the wiser, the more divine, powerful adult perspective in it now, and say the things to her that you wish somebody else would have back then.

Kelly 1:43:26

And I'm shaking my head because it's just again, that visualization is so cool. It's like rather than running away from that version of yourself, you're running towards it and embracing it, yeah, and providing love for it that may have not had the kind of love that it had needed at that particular moment in time. Yeah. Opposite of how you just responded. What if a woman is listening right now and they are more in their feminine? They feel really safe, you know, like all of the opposite of what you just said. What is advice on the contrary?

Brenda 1:44:10

Yeah, that's such a great question because women too much in their feminine, and this is interesting. I gave a talk to a group of women on this exact topic and I handed out a quiz, uh, you know, how to know where you fall more in your masculine versus feminine energy. And you want to be balanced. You don't want to be more one than the other. It's like we all crave balance. And if you're too much in your feminine, let's say in your business or in your life, you'll see inconsistent results. You'll be more of like a feel like you're on the bystander uh side of things, like things are passing you by, you'll feel stuck not getting in action, not moving, and you won't understand why. Sometimes you won't see the results, of course. Excuse me. And you're like, what is it? What is it? Well, I'm feeling so safe and secure over here that, and I tell you, fear can come in and use that exact formula of, oh no, you don't have to do this. Oh no, you've this is fine. Don't don't try too hard, don't put yourself out there, don't do this, don't do that. Because again, the goal of the ego is to keep you small and little and in this little box controlled. Yeah, yes, protect you. Um, and so in that example, I love sitting down with a woman and going back to her why and her passion and activating that deeper meaning of why she's here, why she exists, who is she? And a lot of times our why, because I've had women stuck on that sometimes too. I don't know. I think, I think there's more because I'll meet women far into their business journey or in their C-suite executive journey, and they're like, I think there's something more for me here. I just don't know what that is. I don't know what's next for me, but I'm not done with this world. I'm not, I still want to make a big impact here. Yeah. I maybe I'm really lucky to exit my company right now and sell it or move into a leadership role, but I don't know what's next. And so I love one of the very powerful divine feminine things you can do is I say, sit in the question without having to know the answer. And be in that silence and that stillness. And then some of the key points are what lights you up, what sets your soul on fire? You know, when you're too masculine, you're reactive and overreactive. And to counteract that in your feminine, you're creative. So what of your creativity is still yearning to come out?

Kelly 1:46:57

Fascinating. Really sound advice. Thank you. How can our listeners get connected to you?

Practical Ways To Soften And Lead

Brenda 1:47:11

Yeah, so my website, which is brendabrumman.com, two Ms in Brummund. Um, I my email is dr Brenda at Brenda Brumman.com. I'm on LinkedIn. Uh I believe it's Dr. Brenda Brumman there and Facebook and Instagram, Dr. Brenda Coaching. And my generation, I'm the good old fashioned where if someone wants to enter my world, jump on my email list and you know, get in my text world because I love even all my coaching clients. We talk by text in between our coaching sessions because it's, you know, we're we're here to revolutionize who they know themselves to be. And sometimes that takes more than one hour once a week in coaching. Light years happen those days in between.

Kelly 1:48:03

I have two final questions for you, and then we can wrap up. Book or podcast? And if those aren't fitting the mold for you, I'll let you kind of take it where you want. But if it's a book or it's a podcast, what which one are you currently obsessing over and why?

Brenda 1:48:28

That I'm currently reading or listening to. So a podcast that I do love, it's so interesting. It's next level soul. Okay. And Alex interviews all kinds of people across spectrums of spirituality and near-death experience people and mediums and psychics. And, you know, I've gotten so deep into this work myself, and I love to listen to other people's experience, and I've kind of honed this meter in me of truth, and when something hits truth and doesn't hit truth, so I love hearing other people's experience, and I've had just the most incredible breakthroughs and downloads in my meditations that are so beyond me. And I love connecting with people who get downloads that are so beyond them. So I love that. Of course, The Miracles is my book I go to every day. And then if you look at our book library at home, it's probably everything on spirituality, everything on business. It's like how to scale companies, how to market, how to grow, how to evolve.

Kelly 1:49:39

It's like, no, I see you peeking at some of the books. This is just a fraction of the amount of books that we have. We have more in our room, we have more out in our living room, and more packed away downstairs because we don't have enough shelf space. We don't either, we don't either in our house. Final question for you. So, as you know, my husband and I are in Real estate. And I have just been in whether it's in a listing appointment or in talking to new buyers, there's always a room, a favorite room. So for either the podcast that you're listening to or the miracles book that you're pulling out, is there a favorite room that in your space that you're going to to read that or just in general, your favorite space in your house?

Brenda 1:50:33

Yeah. So the podcast, because I'm a mom of, you know, four still at home, driving all over the place.

Kelly 1:50:41

I figured this was this was going to be the answer for the podcast. Yeah.

Brenda 1:50:46

Yep. So my taxi driver service, I am totally when my kids aren't in the car, I try to turn everything off when they're in there and you know, have those best conversations that kids will not have with you at home, especially as they're teens now. Um, and with A Course in Miracles, I have this daily morning practice where I wake up. I sometimes will put this. Um, I'm I'm really big on tapping into our subconscious and into our nervous systems with, you know, either creating a voice note or having a hypnotherapist create a really beautiful recording of the life we choose to have, the life that we want to have. And some mornings I get up and I put my headphones in and I listen to that while I'm in those alpha brainwave states and I'm really suggestible. It's life-changing. Um, and then if I'm not doing that though, I get up, I make my way downstairs. I start every morning with a piece of dark chocolate. Never fail.

unknown 1:51:42

Woman after my heart.

Kelly 1:51:43

Yeah, I love dark chocolate. I love really good dark chocolate too. So if you've got some recommendations, you can tell me off here.

Brenda 1:51:50

Oh, where are you? Which is there a room though? Yes. So then I sit down, and usually our living room, I grab a Course in Miracles and I sit down and I sometimes I'll take an hour-long meditation if I've got that. Other times I read my daily lesson for the day, and it just I have to be up before everybody else is up, and I have to just have that peace and quiet. And then this book that I'm working on, I get all my downloads in that space too.

Kelly 1:52:15

Listeners, I know I said we were landing the plane. However, we we're gonna take just a few more minutes to talk about this book. Okay, so you're writing a book.

Brenda 1:52:27

Yeah.

Kelly 1:52:28

How far are you?

Brenda 1:52:30

We're over halfway through.

Kelly 1:52:31

Okay. Then there's a ghostwriter.

Brenda 1:52:34

Yes.

Kelly 1:52:35

Share a little bit more about this because it sounds like there's a really cool story alongside of it. Hang in there, listeners, because I don't think you're gonna want to miss this.

Brenda 1:52:44

So I never wanted to write a book, never saw myself as a writer. And then it when you get those polls, those tugs that, like, okay, I think I have to write this book about this topic. Your goal in life is to follow those. I that's the got the intuition, right? And so the most profound thing I've ever done in my life, and with all the journeys I've gone through and all the heartbreak I've gone through, um, it's brought me to this point of wanting to share this formula that I've created for women, for myself, that I've practiced, versions I've got this from A Course in Miracles. Um, but the book is called F Everyone. But the F stands for forgive.

unknown 1:53:28

I love that so much.

Kelly 1:53:30

I just got chills.

Advice To Younger Self And Safety

Brenda 1:53:33

Yeah. Because ego Brenda would like to say F everyone, F the world, F F my finances, F my business, F this, F that. But the Brenda that I'm currently and hope to soon to still be always evolving into is that I get so good at practicing the art and science of forgiveness that what happens in that world is you give the world and everyone and all your situations around you no other choice but to grow and evolve with you. And I didn't know how to forgive in my life. I didn't know how to get forgive my parents, forgive the church at times, you know, forgive the bulliers and forgive my ex-husband and forgive my current husband and forgive myself through all the ways that I felt like I left myself down, that I broke my own standards and beliefs. And again, accidental through coaching, when I started helping women forgive people in their lives, um, I saw their whole worlds open up. I saw them take the biggest quantum leap into unknown, uncharted, beautiful territory with themselves and their relationships and their businesses. And I thought I've got to put this together. But I'm not a writer. I don't sit and write. I barely journal even. I tell my clients to journal. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. But I, through one of my clients, I met this incredible woman who is created this company to help busy professionals write books when they feel like there's a book in them. And I've been sitting down with her now for several months, and she is an incredible person. I cannot believe that I'm co-writing this book with her, and she's just helping me get this all out and put it all together. And through this art and science of forgiveness, you know, I realized as she shared more of her story as we got into this book that she is exactly the right person I've been meaning to write this book with. I just had to wait for the right person to come along. She is a child of sexual assault. She was uh her mom was sexually assaulted by her dad. And you know, she her mom became pregnant with her. Her mom then was like, I can't deal with this. I want to have an abortion. And like somehow the dad and mom knew each other and still, and the dad was like, No, you're not. I'm gonna take her then. And the mom was like, No, you're not. Like, I'm not leaving this child with you. So she gave birth to her, had struggles, I'm sure, as a mom giving birth to this child, told this child many times, I wish I would have had an abortion with you. And yeah, and just growing up, trying to find herself and her identity, being born this way and being spoken to this way, and still working really hard to have a beautiful relationship of what she could with this mom. Excuse me, and also wanting a relationship with the biodad, and so still forging a relationship with her biodad. And then, of course, you know, having struggles getting into your young adult life and then going to live with the dad, and then to be assaulted by the dad herself sexually, and then to still try to figure out who she is and find her place in this world and going through all kinds of teen struggles, and to come out the other side now as like a beautiful woman who still has a relationship as good as she can possibly have, and still wanting to grow it with her bio mom, her bio-dad, her stepdad, I mean, she is just like a soul warrior in my mind. And through this book writing process, I thought, you know what? If the one person that I could help through this book is her, if she gets anything out of this book at all, I have like won. The book is worth it. Like, yes, thank you. I'm so grateful I did this. And now with us being over halfway through, we're probably getting three-quarters of the way through, I have witnessed right before my very own eyes a woman become so much more fully grown into herself and now saying things back to me that remind me of what's possible when you forgive not only other people, but truly yourself. Literally anything is possible. The reciprocation.

Kelly 1:58:50

Yeah, that's beautiful.

Brenda 1:58:52

Yeah.

unknown 1:58:53

What's the timeline for this?

Brenda 1:58:55

We hope to publish it in the fall.

Kelly 1:58:58

Get out. I'm like chomping at the bit. Yeah.

Brenda 1:59:02

And oh, if you've heard stories, you'll hear all of my stories. Like it is just I am walking people through my journey and watching myself stumble and fall and get up and stumble and fall and get up. And, you know, my goal at the end of this book is to have everybody practicing the art and science of forgiveness so much that they become so slippery to judgment. It just can't land with them the same anymore. They start looking for things to forgive, looking for places where they were held back before that, you know, now it's broken wide open. And, you know, I've gone through so much financial struggle my whole life by judging finances. I have a whole chapter that all debt is unforgiveness.

Kelly 1:59:50

It's so good. Coming soon, listeners. Coming soon. Brenda. Oof. I knew when we got off that Zoom call months and months and months ago. I can't even recall now when that was. This was gonna be good. I just didn't know how good. And I'm so grateful and appreciative for you to come and share those experiences and talk more in depth. And the cherry on top of the cake is exactly what you're working on with the book. I mean, frankly, like I think no matter how many other takeaways, because there's been many for me personally, and I'm certain for the listeners as well. But if there is something that you can tangibly take away from this conversation, it's this last little bit about forgiveness and just honing in on that and let love shine through.

Speaker 2:00:50

For sure.

Kelly 2:00:52

Brenda, thank you from the bottom of my heart for carving out time to come out this direction and spend two hours in the company of one another and just sharing more. And I just know that there's gonna be so many women on the other side of this listening that are just truly blessed. So thank you. I appreciate it.

Brenda 2:01:13

Oh my gosh, you're so welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for opening your heart to me, and thank you to all the listeners for listening and spending this time with me. You are so welcome, and I hope you have a great rest of the day.

Kelly 2:01:25

Thank you, you too. Thank you.