Ep. 101 with Sarah Schaffer | Realtor, Lakes Sotheby's International Realty

Pivots That Pay Off

A $6,000 loss on a house flip that turns into 11 leads. Four kids in six years while walking construction sites and picking tile. A partnership offer that lands like a “cinder block from heaven.” Sarah Schaffer’s story is the kind that makes you rethink what progress looks like when you’re a working mom building a business in real estate.

We talk about what drives a smart pivot: leaving a comfortable boutique brokerage to join Sotheby’s for continued growth, new standards, and the kind of mentorship that changes how you work. Sarah shares how partnering with Anne Shaeffer reshapes her view of time, boundaries, and long-term sustainability in a career where the phone never stops. We also get specific about the practical systems that keep an entrepreneurial household running, from shared calendars to kids learning real responsibility instead of being “managed” 24-7.

Then the conversation shifts into what most people don’t see: neurodiversity in the family, a late autism diagnosis at 16, dyslexia, and the hard hindsight that comes with connecting the dots later than you wish you had. Sarah’s honesty opens up bigger questions about community, support, and how we advocate for our kids and ourselves. We also hold space for deep grief after a sudden family loss, and how faith and the Live Like Gina Foundation help transform pain into purpose.

If you’re building a real estate career, navigating motherhood identity shifts, or trying to create real work-life balance without burning out, this one will stay with you. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs a steady voice today, and leave a review with the biggest pivot you’re facing right now.

Connect with Sarah:

IG: @Schafferandshaeffer

Website: SSFineHomes

Contact the Host, Kelly Kirk:

• Email: info.ryh7@gmail.com

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Credits:

• Editor: Joseph Kirk
• Music: Kristofer Tanke 

Thanks for listening & cheers to Reclaiming Your Hue! 

Transcript

Welcome And How We Connect

Kelly 0:01

Good afternoon, Sarah.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Good afternoon.

Kelly 0:04

I'm not used to saying good afternoon. Normally my interviews are happening in the morning, but it just so happens we needed to make a little pivot. Yes. And have you here this afternoon? And so I'm grateful for your flexibility. Thank you very much. Of course.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

My pleasure.

Kelly 0:19

Welcome.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

And are you excited? Yes, I am. I, as I said, I am nervous sighted. So a word my kids taught me.

Kelly 0:27

I like that one.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

This is from actually My Little Pony.

Kelly 0:30

That's that's a um interesting. I haven't heard that one. And My Little Pony is something that I grew up with. So I'm like, oh I don't know. It's back.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Is it? I mean, it was when my girls were, you know, coming up in age.

Kelly 0:46

So yeah. I love it. Okay, well, just a quick note there's a footstool here for you in case you want to get super cozy, comfy.

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Thank you.

Kelly 0:54

But let's go ahead and dive in. I would love for you to share with the listeners how it is that the two of us are connected.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Yes. I'm so lucky to be connected to Kelly through our work together at Lake Sotheby's International Realty. Um, we don't work directly together, but as real estate agents, we often are working kind of in parallel with each other.

Kelly 1:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

So working our businesses independently, but you know, doing so under one roof. Yes. Uh, which I always love, you know, and you guys are in the office a lot. I like to be in the office a lot. Not all agents like being in an office, but for me, I think real estate can be a really kind of lonely job because you're, you know, really independently running your own business. So, you know, getting to do that kind of shoulder to shoulder with people and you know, have people to kind of just, you know, you know, bounce ideas off of, right, right, talk shop.

Kelly 1:57

Yeah, it's it's nice that there are so many of those opportunities, yet it's like if you want to have your head down and grind, so to speak, you can totally do that. And people respect and honor that because we're all we're all aiming at the same thing, right? Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

And often literally the same thing. It might be the same property, or you know, so while we are actually in theory in competition with each other many times, I mean, you know, just from there's this many houses to sell and this many agents, um, you know, more so I think we really work collaboratively and you know, share trade secrets and people are really open book. I've loved that about

Why Sarah Moves To Sotheby’s

SPEAKER_00 2:40

being at Sotheby's.

Kelly 2:41

I couldn't agree more. I actually want to take just a moment to talk about the brand itself, Sotheby's, because Sotheby's hasn't always been your home. You were with another brokerage and then decided to make the transition. And I'd love to hear about the why behind that. Um I think also that we can take this opportunity to just talk a little bit about pivots as well. It's one of the things that I wanted to talk through with you because I think you've had a few pivots in your life. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

I think we all do. I mean, I think, you know, it brings me back to this concept that I think is relevant in motherhood and in business of just like shedding your skin. And we're always kind of outgrowing this version of, you know, who we are or growing into this version of who we're trying to become. And yes, I was at a smaller boutique brokerage here locally uh for about seven years before coming to Sotheby's and had an amazing experience there, you know, really like got my feet, grew my wings, you know, all those things, and you know, had absolutely no reason to leave, you know. And, you know, while I felt that way, there was also sort of this hankering for continued growth and continued learning. I like learning. I'm not a person who likes to be, you know, feel like I know everything. I always like to be around people who I feel know a lot more than me or do things better than me or whatever. So, you know, Sotheby's has uh a lot of agents that have been in the business a long time that work at, you know, luxury price points, which is, you know, not something I'd done a ton of. And, you know, it's just a new, whole new concept. It's sort of sort of like starting over in the business because uh once I did make that change, I found that I very much had a lot of growth to do. So, you know, I think the pivot came from this desire to continue to grow. And um also I had a partnership opportunity come to me. And um, you know, I can share a little about how that came about. You know, I was at home one day and my phone rang. It was an agent. Uh, her name is Ann Schaefer, who works a lot in, you know, the Edina area and specifically in the neighborhood I live in, which is the historic country club neighborhood. And I had been, you know, interviewed at different brokerages and was kind of like, well, I don't really have any reason. Nothing's nothing really feels like a compelling enough reason to turn everything upside down and make this big change. And then that call came in, and you know, my husband wasn't home at the time. I think it was home alone, and she was she was very matter-of-fact, as I've learned Anne is, and she said, I, you know, I think you should come to Sotheby's, and I I think you and I should become partners. And I was kind of, she said, What do you think about that? Which I found she does in negotiating, also, where she just likes to button things up and say, Yeah, how does that sound? Yeah, that's awesome. I found she did the same thing to me, and she was like, How does that sound? And I was like, I think that sounds great. And that's you know, was sort of the start to the conversation of like, you know, then we had a first coffee where it was like, Do you know how to form a partnership? No, do you? No. Have you ever worked with anyone else? No, have you? No. So, you know, while neither of us really knew what we were doing, it felt like there's something here to kind of keep us moving forward and keep trying.

Kelly 6:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

And I called my husband after that phone call. Of course, he knows Anne. She was the listing agent

The Partnership Call From Anne

SPEAKER_00 6:35

on the home when we bought it uh that we live in now. And and I said, you know, I I think I got the call. I think, I think this is what I've been waiting for. And he said, Sarah, that's not a call, that's a cinder block from heaven, you know. And he said so, and it was, it felt definitive, it felt right, it felt good. It felt like the growth I was looking for and the the mentorship really, you know, to to work with An. And it's proven to be, you know, that and so much more.

Kelly 7:05

What a blessing. Yes, seriously. Yes. Okay, I want to, I want to go just a bit deeper about this. I know Anne is listening right now, and so just a quick shout out to Anne and just how tremendous of an agent that she is. Yes. I mean, her her knowledge and her wisdom is vast.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Yes.

Kelly 7:28

And what I love about her story, I tried to encourage her to come on the podcast. I was like, maybe all three of us could do it together. And she was like, no, no, you know, and and she was so kind about it, but to your point, very matter of fact, no, no, no, no. Yeah. The reason I want to just plug this real quick is because it was really because of Anne that you're here. Ann Ann and I caught each other in the office one day, and she was like, you know, I've been thinking about you. And I said, Oh, really? Pray tell. Uh oh, why? And she goes, I just I think you and Sarah should sit down and have some coffee. And I was like, Okay. She goes, You're doing some really great things with that podcast. And I was like, Yes. And she goes, you know, maybe maybe Sarah could be on the podcast. And I said, I think that'd be great. Maybe you, and this is when I was like, Hey, maybe you should too. And she was like, No, no, but I just took that as like, okay, that's an open invitation. I'm gonna reach out to Sarah. I had no idea if she had talked to you or not. I think part of the reason that she was like, you two should talk is because she felt that there were commonalities about how you were doing things within the household. Yes, and then same with me. Yes. Also. And I was like, okay. And so I reached out to you and we had coffee, and it was fantastic. And I learned so much more about you, and that's where this open invitation came to be on the podcast. And so I'm really like just a quick shout out and a thank you to Anne, because without her pulling me aside and going, Hey, right, you and Sarah should sit down and just have some coffee. Yeah. And without that, right, this wouldn't even be happening.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

And I think that's such a great example of the efficiency that Anne has when she works. She she executes at a level like I've I've never experienced before. Like she knows how to do her job, do it right, get it done. And, you know, she is always championing championing other women. Yeah. You know, she's and and she did that for me long before we were ever partners, yeah, you know, in in the business. So I mean, just an example and of finding those people and surrounding yourself, you know, kind of being a collector of people that are people that you appreciate or respect or that sort of thing. I mean, that's always been really important to me, just from just growth and living a life well lived.

Kelly 10:03

Yeah. Another quick note I just want to make. So I had there was an individual who had been on the podcast. Um, her name is Sarah Boleen. She is with the parts department. Do you know Sarah?

SPEAKER_00 10:15

I know Sarah because our sons played on the same hockey team.

Kelly 10:18

Oh, awesome. Awesome. Okay. So Sarah's been on the podcast, and then she had introduced me to a gal by the name of Katie Tiemann.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Okay.

Kelly 10:28

She worked with she worked with Katie. Um, how was it that they worked together? It doesn't matter. We all got together for wine at Boges. Is that how you say it? Bogea's. And I was telling Katie, because Sarah already knew this. I said, hey, I'm I'm right down the road at Lake Sotheby. She goes, Oh my gosh, do you know Anne? I go, Well, yeah, who doesn't know Anne Schaefer? Yeah, right. So she shared with me, and this was something that I did not know about Anne, was that she got her license at the age of 40. And I thought, oh, this is just so fitting, and I can't wait to have conversations, more conversations with Anne down the line. Yes, about the parallels. Cause I just got my license and have everything finalized, and I'm 40 years old, and I'm like, Yeah, I feel like I'm starting from scratch, right? And also have been in the business somewhat, you know, having been on mortgage and then also joining forces within the last few years with Joe and the business. Yes. And so I just loved hearing that that was a part of her story.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Yeah.

Kelly 11:41

And how far she has come from 40 to I don't even know how old Anne is, frankly, but like how cool and how incredible. And just how much she has honed in on her craft. Right. It's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 11:56

It it's I mean, the the you know, amongst many reasons why Sotheby's has been a great fit. I mean, getting to work with Anne is, you know, by far, you know, the the the greatest, you know, blessing that's come out of it for me. I mean, she's just, you know, taught me so so much from creative little sneaky purchase agreement things she does, or you know, just like the way she says things, the way she talks on the phone. Um, she's just she's she's made this into a business for me or or taught me how this can be a sustainable lifestyle as an agent because, you know, there were years prior to this where I was doing 60 transactions by myself and just absolutely burnt out, you know, saying my family was a priority, but not showing my family that they were my priority because they were, of course, the first thing on the chopping block when people needed to see something or that sort of thing. And so learning from her about balance and efficiencies and being direct and you know, helping people see what's valuable and isn't valuable. Um, you know, I tend to let people kind of go through their journey where Anne leads them on that journey. So it's it's sort of just a different style, but that comes, I think, with years and years of experience and the confidence she's built from, you know, being being and doing the business she's done. And I'm just, you know, uh along for the ride this past year, and you know, it's proven to be invaluable.

Motherhood First Then Business

Kelly 13:43

We're gonna start to fold more of this story in, but I want to take the listeners back to sort of the beginning of all of this, right? First, what came first for you? Was it entrepreneurship or was it motherhood?

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Yes, for me, I mean, the short answer would be that motherhood came first for me, you know, versus owning my own business. Now, the caveat to that is my husband owns his own business. And so by default, I've kind of gone along for the ride with him, you know, for for better or for worse in the you know, small business ownership world. But um, you know, I had the what was a blessing to me to be able to stay home with my kids for eight years. I have four of them. Um, I had four of them in six years, so those were a very busy six years. And with a husband that owns his own business, you know, it wasn't we didn't have sort of paternity leave or, you know, paid time off or some of those, you know, um things I see becoming more more prevalent today, which I think is, you know, great that people have those opportunities more and more. But in the small business world, you know, his business is very much a business that is requires him to be there. And yeah, and I knew that going into all of this, and of course kept having those babies. But um, so I stayed home for eight years, and then one night my fourth child, my son, he after about two years slept through the night. And I woke up with just a bee in my bonnet of like, you know what I want to do? I'm gonna go get my real estate license. So that and prior to that, my husband and I had been kind of buying a home, renovating and selling, buy, renovate, sell, buy, renovate, sell. And I really, you know, first fell in love with construction, and that's still a big, you know, passion of mine. I still really enjoy it. I still like helping clients do it. Um, but you know, those eight years were, you know, a lot of dragging babies around construction sites and in through carpet showrooms and things like that.

Kelly 16:01

I don't want to glaze over this. You still do stuff in the construction world simultaneously being a mom and in business with arguably one of the best agents.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

I mean, yes.

Kelly 16:19

That is true. We're not gonna glaze over the yeah, right. There's a lot, I feel like there's a lot of avenues that we can go down here, Sarah. Um I want to sit in this time period first and help the listeners like move along to getting your real estate license. So the construction time period. So when you were doing all of this, like how did so that came to fruition because one of the kiddos finally slept through the night? Wait, no, no, no. I'm backing up. I'm gonna back up. The construction happened before then, right? Yeah. So how did that come to fruition? Like, what what was something that all of a sudden just spurred you to want to do that?

Renovations That Lead To Real Estate

SPEAKER_00 17:03

Yes, that's that's a great question. And in 2004, I bought my first place at the time I was doing outside sales for uh a New York City-based beauty brand, which is uh Bumble and Bumble. It's owned by Estee Lauder. Yes, I worked for them in New York City for I did an internship with them in college and then went on to work for their founder. And then how cool when I wanted to move back home for love, you know. I um my husband is I met him in high school. So we had spent seven years apart um doing, you know, him going to pharmacy school and me going to I had gone to St. Ben's and then moved to New York, and finally we were deciding to kind of be together. And so my boss gave me the opportunity to do outside sales here in the Midwest, and I did that. So I bought my first condo on 42nd and Bryant, and I was so excited. I was I just was so excited, and the floors were very unstraight. Literally, you would trip over the wood floors, and don't bring a marble to that. No, but you know, it we painted and we changed out cabinets and just sort of like dabbled, and and that was when I first got this like, wow, you can buy something and make it something completely different. There was this fascination with it. And uh, once my husband finished school and moved in with me after we were married, they um, you know, we we wanted to buy a house. So we bought a house, and I remember my husband brought me there because it was next door to his brother's house. And I was like, I hate everything about this house. So if I agree to buy it, I'm changing everything. And he was like, whatever. He wanted to live next door to his brother. So that was our first big construction project, which was a huge addition on three stories. I mean, I don't know what possessed us to think we were. Did you live in it while we were let's see, where did we live? We did live in it, yes. So we did like there was a period of time we moved in with my parents and actually had our first baby while we lived, you know, at my parents' house. We brought our baby home to our oldest daughter, Rosemary, home to my parents' house, which my parents loved, of course. Yeah, but um, you know, that was probably a year-long project, and we kind of quickly realized we enjoyed doing it and wanted to do it again, so put it up for sale, sold it, bought another property, did the same thing, you know, all the while having baby after baby. My gosh. And, you know, then it got more challenging to have babies crawling through construction sites and things like that. So eventually, you know, friends would ask me, like, oh, I wanna thinking about doing a bathroom, or I'm thinking about doing this, and could you help me at least figure out how to get started? And along the way, I had formed a lot of relationships with different contractors and subcontractors. So, you know, I think the biggest part of construction is the people, your, your, your trade partners, and yeah, you know, that's what you come to find is really valuable about a construction business is those relationships and um, you know, just kind of building rapport with them over time. I had a general contractor that eventually kind of teamed up with me and we started taking on projects together. So um that was that was kind of what was like I should get my real estate license and flip properties. So, you know, eventually you did that too, and just honestly, my real estate business was born out of my flips that I would hold open houses at to try to sell, and people would come in and like what they saw, so they would want to buy something. And so that was honestly, I like to tell the story that the the flip that we did, that particular flip, uh, I ended up losing six thousand dollars on when it all like all the numbers shook out, but I probably got 11 leads out of holding the open houses because the property wouldn't sell. And Sarah's like, worth it, yeah, right, totally worth it. I called I called it the school of hard knocks, but and learned so much by doing that first one. But you know, I mean that's part of that whole like pivoting mentality of like, oh, I thought I was gonna be in construction and flipping, always thought, oh, I'll never be like customer facing or that sort of thing, but you know, life surprises you.

Kelly 21:41

Something that I wrote down was SLPs, your systems, your operations, your procedures. What had you built out during this time period in flipping houses that you then carried over? You had The reason I'm putting like I wrote this down, Sarah is because you have four kids and you're telling me you have you were having one after another while also flipping houses. That's a lot of project management. Okay, back up a second. That's a lot of project management at house, like household level. Right, right. And then a lot of project management in flipping a house. Pray tell.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah. I mean, it was such a passion for me. And I actually loved having the kids with me. It was a way like I can be working and contributing to my family. I mean, not in a traditional sense where I'm getting a paycheck and I'm putting a lot more money out than I'm bringing in, you know, with a lot of risk involved. But, you know, as a mom, I wasn't the type of mom. I think there's I I have friends and, you know, people I know that it gave them a lot of anxiety to leave the house with the kids. Like that felt like a huge hurdle to cross. And they were more comfortable to just kind of, you know, be in a more controlled environment and stay home. For me, it was the opposite. Like being at home gave me anxiety. Like, what am I gonna do for the next, you know? My husband worked really long days at that point, you know, 10, 12 hours. So it was like, okay, I've got all these kids, you know, I'm I'm like kind of a slave to nap schedules all day long. And so it was mentally easier for me to be like, let's all go to the tile store. Yeah. It's sort of filling me up because it's design related and construction related and fun. And to them, it's like a place they can run around and you know. So it was always, I don't know. And then I would, I had this idea that this was all gonna become a blog. That was that was it was gonna become a blog and it was gonna become a referral engine. And I wasn't gonna do any sales, I was just gonna have leads come in through this blog that I would refer out, easy peasy. Uh, but and so I did that. I I've blogged for years about past construction projects. I won't give you the URL for that, but uh, and then you know, eventually they became, you know, part of our, you know, my website when I first launched it, and and so much, you know, social media content born out of that. You know, help me pick the front door color, which tile do you like this or that? And you know, also that would generate interest in these properties that would eventually go to market. So, and the kids were all part of it, you know, they they were they're painting the samples on the doors, they were I mean, truly part of all of it. I mean, I can remember a day we were scraping, you know, carpet that had baked onto a screen porch off like the glue, and uh one of the subcontractors went and got the kids popsicles. Like I was just like, wow, we're we're in this all together. And but I always loved that about it, and I always wanted them to be part of it, and you know, I think it the the overriding theme that will become part of all of this is that it was that journey in motherhood that made me into who I am and made me capable of those things and capable of what I do today. That was really beautiful.

Kelly 25:31

That was so beautiful, I love it.

Designing A Life That Works

Kelly 25:34

I wrote down design your life. This came to me. This might be a little TMI, but this came to me earlier today. So I'm in between interviews, right? Like I had an interview earlier this morning with these two lovely ladies, and then and then here's Sarah. And we finished up with that interview, and I was like, I've got to go to the bathroom really bad. And I was in there and I don't know where this came from. I literally was like, You are designing your life, Kelly, and this is so incredible. And it might not look to other people on the outside like the the traditional nine to five or whatever, or even like, oh, you're you're new in real estate and you're building your real estate career and you're also doing a podcast, and like I'm designing my life. And it just so happens that Thursdays are when the podcast happens and it's working.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah.

Kelly 26:37

And it works really well, and I love it, and it's filling my cup in a specific way, yes, that then supports me as a mom to be able to show up with my cup full.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Yeah.

Kelly 26:49

It allows me to be able to show to the kids and to my husband that there is a way to be able to harmonize this. Yeah, I can do it. Do I have to prioritize like time management? 100%. Yes. 100% because that real estate business, as you and I both know, never sleeps. Right. It really doesn't. Like we go to bed and there's still stuff that's coming. Yes, right. So there's always and forever gonna be stuff that's happening. But I wrote it down because I think it's just such a beautiful tie-in to what you're speaking to and how you have designed your life. And and by all other means, outsiders' perspective, they might go, what the heck? That is crazy. But to us, we go, it works. Right. Right. And we can pay the bills, right? And we can have time with our kids that otherwise isn't gonna happen. Right. And there's a really beautiful opportunity to be able to model for our kids also.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Yeah.

Kelly 27:52

While simultaneously being able to fill our cups in a specific way, too. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

Yeah, I I mean, I will say that was that's been a struggle for me. In, you know, I grew up in a traditional household where my dad went to work, you know, a lot of hours, you know, was very busy, very tied up. And then my mom stayed home and was ever present, which I loved, and you know, had a great mom that was always there, everything we needed at school or whatever. And, you know, I always felt a tug of like, well, I'm not always the one that's there, or you know, sometimes my kids get home from school and there's not a parent there, you know, or once in a while I might have to miss a school field trip or whatever the case might be. And it's taken me a lot of years to not because anybody's made me feel guilty about it, or even my own mom's like, oh, you know, you're doing a great job or whatever. Uh, but it just it's like an underlying subconscious tug.

Kelly 29:03

It's really strange, isn't it? I feel you on this.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

I I definitely see the other side of it of like, but yes, but you know, my girls are really involved in my business, you know. They look at my listing photos or and are like, mom, you cannot post that picture, you know, or or whatever the case is, or you're that description sounds terrible. You know, so they're they have things for the interview. I do for this, but they know it's funny as they've gotten older. You know, I I'm I love organizing. That's another thing I love to do, like organizing around the house, and I love closet built-ins and stuff like that. And I used to always organize the girls' closets, and you know, I always did it by sleeve length. They organize by color and we quarrel over this. I'm like, but on a weather, you know, depending on the weather, then you can pick it. And they're like, Mom, absolutely not. That's wrong.

Kelly 30:02

That's funny. It's it's funny. I never thought about organizing the clothes by sleeve length. I actually do partner like my tank tops together in color, like I color code them. My t-shirts color code them, and then long sleeves color code them, and sweaters have a a whole place of their own.

SPEAKER_00 30:24

It's so funny, whatever makes sense. I know, but it's just one of those things where, you know, I see that the girls see what I do, and and my boys too, but I think for whatever reason I feel, you know, I don't know. I I it it feels less of a tug for me with the boys than the girls, but um it's I feel that it's gonna benefit them in the end. And I tell the kids all the time, like there's just a season for everything, and it it has rung very true for me. Like, I'm so grateful for the season I had with them being scrappy contractor lady, and I'm you know, grateful that I'm getting this season to kind of accelerate in in my work, and you know, maybe that means my husband's picking up more slack at home or whatever, whatever the case is. I mean, it's just it's it's always an all hands-on deck operation, and that's not just with my husband and I, it's with our kids too.

Running Two Businesses Under One Roof

Kelly 31:27

Natural segue into talking more about your family as a whole is so entrepreneurial, right? So your husband, which was sort of the like that first little um segue into entrepreneurship, you're you're watching all of that happen, and how beautiful for you to be able to stay at home. I'm gonna take just a quick moment to shout out to all of the psalms out there because you have a special place in my heart, one because I truly wish that I could have had the opportunity to do that. And I also know God has provided some really incredible skills for me, and so I need to run with those skills as well. And so I always think, oh my gosh, these stay-at-home moms are killing it. They might not feel like it, but they deserve a major shout-out because I think that there's such an an overlook that happens for stay-at-home moms, like, oh, you decided to stay at home. Yeah. And there is so much management that comes with that. Yes. And so I always go praise, like praise and kudos because it's even in the window of time that I stayed home for maternity leave. And it was a very short window of time. Yeah. Because I was in mortgage at that point. And I mean, yes, we were W-2'd, so we were like we were required to take that um, what do you call it, the family leave. Oh, sure. And get that payout. And also, there's negotiations that are happening with your branch manager where it's like, hey, I can cover X amount of hours or X amount of weeks. Okay. And so that's how it worked for me. Wow. Right. So I had that window of time, and I was like, I mean, Maddie was a baby, right? She's like newborn. Right. And so she was sleeping a ton, but it was still understanding that there is something that's happening back here in mortgage that I'm trusting to somebody else. Right. But I also have the management that's happening here. Right. So it's just that little glimpse into what it could look like as a stay-at-home mom. Yeah. So I've always been like they don't get enough praise.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah. I mean, those those were hard years. I mean, you know, I loved them and I I enjoyed them and we made the most of them. But they were very hard. And, you know, you'd have people come up to you and be like, oh my gosh, you know, these are the good days. And you know, you just soak up every moment, and you're like, I have not slept in three months. Right. Right. I am so exhausted right now, and I haven't seen my husband in weeks. Like you're like, oh my gosh. It was those, it was hard. And and yet in hindsight, I catch myself being like, look at that mom with their little kids. I just want to tell her to soak it up. And it's like, no, don't say that. Just help her carry your groceries. Yes. Yes.

Kelly 34:38

That's beautiful. That's actually really sound advice.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yes, I know, because I can remember people doing little things like, oh, I'll help you get your trunk open. And you're just like, you have no idea what that means to me. That made that so much easier. Or, you know, somebody that drops a meal off and you're like, the fact that I don't have to prepare one meal today. I mean, it it for me who doesn't love cooking, like that, that was straight, straight to my heart. But yeah, no, I I have a lot of respect and appreciation and you know, enjoyed the experience of being one, but also, you know, know how hard it is too.

Kelly 35:19

Okay, back to the entrepreneurial household that is happening right now. So you, your husband is an entrepreneur, he has his own business, you have your own business. What does that how I wrote this down is what have you implemented in the household, knowing that you have your juggling businesses, right? What are some small or maybe big shifts that you have implemented in the household to be able to support the household in general? Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 35:56

Right. I know what you mean, yes. Um, and you know, when you talk about big ones, the the biggest one that I can think of is patience because it requires a lot of patience. Pack your patience. I mean, so much patience. No, I mean it's it has such incredible pros and such incredible cons. I mean, and really you have to be doing it because you love it and it's what you want to be doing, because it's not for the faint of heart. Um, you know, I I think to think really tangibly, our kids have grown up in this environment, you know, with us both being of these sorts of like brains of people who who like doing this sort of thing. You know, my husband bought his parents' business, so that's a business that he's been in his whole life. Wow. Um, and he's one of four boys, and all four of you know, him and his three brothers all own their own businesses. And then, you know, my dad was a uh oral surgeon and had a practice, so I also had exposure to that on my side. So, you know, it's we were never really born to be very, you know, both of us worked in the corporate world and found it to be just very rigid for us. You know, it was funny. Like I remember being at work and the five o'clock, you know, the clock hitting five o'clock and everybody standing up from their desks and walking to the elevator together, and it was like, well, there's still stuff we gotta do. Like we're just done. And that just wasn't my experience in New York working at Bumble, which was, you know, yeah, you know, this founder business that had been grown. And so, you know, in many ways, I think, you know, we went into this knowing this would be sort of our lifestyle. Um, you know, with the kids, it's always been this way, and they understand, you know, I mean, there's an ongoing joke at home where the kids say, Where's dad? And I say, Never ask me with that question, because his, you know, he his schedule is he's in and out of his business all day long, multiple times a day. He comes home to try to like help me get the kids out the door. You know, he's usually there at five, you know, goes in and then he sometimes goes back late. I mean, it's you know, it's just that whatever has to get done has to get done. So there's there's a lot of um patience required for the kids, you know, like I said, I feel like while this has always been their lifestyle, it has bred in them just a work ethic. You know, the kids are part of how things get done at our house. It's the only way, you know. We the two of us cannot do it on our own. And so like one of our daughters does the laundry, and she created the laundry system that I am happy to follow because otherwise my laundry won't be done. My gosh. And you know, Sarah, this is incredible. She it is, it is, honestly. And and it's not because we had this intentional frame of mind of like, oh, let's teach our kids to be really independent. They had to be, you know, they get up in the mornings and make their lunches and you know, get themselves, you know, I'm there, but I'm not really doing much in terms of, you know, I kind of check my emails in the morning and I'm kind of putting my own fires out. They're making lunch and getting themselves ready. And, you know, I love being there to say goodbye, to get them out the door. Everybody, you know, goes on their bus or bike or car or whatever. And, you know, it's important to me that I'm there, but you know, it doesn't necessarily mean I have to be the one that's, you know, flustered with the lunches and packing up the school papers. I mean, and believe me when I tell you, there are multiple occasions I can remember where either I went to drop a kid off at school and there was no school that day, or the kids went to school and were like, I don't think we have school today. So it's like the amount of emails that come in. Our kids, you know, have been at four different schools just given age range and all that sort of thing. It's like I can't manage the number of emails coming in, the lunch menus coming in, what's for lunch, where, what school has a field trip, what one doesn't. So that responsibility is defaulted onto them to keep us informed of.

Kelly 40:37

May I ask, when did you start having the conversations with them? Like how old were they when you were like, hey, we got to talk about like managing this responsibility because it's like we can do it together. And there is a point where you sort of hand it off, right? So I am curious, when did you hand it off? Yeah selfishly, I want to know.

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yeah, and I think it's so admittedly, I wish I would have had a great conversation sit-down with them where I asked them those questions. But in the entrepreneurial world with both of us, you know, running businesses, there isn't necessarily those times to be very intentional, or in other words, I could have been more intentional with those things. Yeah. Um, but I think you get a feeling. I don't know as a mom, I just kind of get this sixth sense of like, you know, last time my kids went to the dentist, you know, I was like, before you leave the dentist office, set up your next appointment. You know, you don't need me to be there.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:39

Um, I think the biggest tool, like tangible tool, is we have a shared Google Calendar. And not all of our kids have phones yet. Um, but our older girls do. And the boys, I kind of say, you know, just schedule an appointment. I can always call and res, you know, in my head, I'm like, I'll just call and reschedule it. But yeah, you know, who really knows what they're doing six months from now anyway.

Kelly 42:02

I know. I've always thought that that's funny.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

Right. Sure, I can do it that day. But, you know, that, you know, the girls, you know, they're you know, you know, it's it's sort of like I catch myself. Like my son will say, I need a haircut, and I'll be like, Great, I'll let me go online. And then I'm like, wait, I bet he could schedule that haircut appointment, you know, and and he can, and he does, and then he bikes to it, and you know, then there's teaching them like, well, when you get a service, you provide a tip, and you know, your your tip reflects your gratitude, and so it spawns these other conversations of just etiquette and being a responsible adult and you know, respecting your elders and those sorts of things. So it's sort of letting those things happen and those experiences, letting them transpire, yeah, kind of leads the learning and teaching as well, versus like, okay, I'm gonna perfectly set them up so that they never have to fail and they're not gonna make a mistake and they're not gonna schedule the appointment wrong and all these sorts of things. It's like part of it is the mistakes, you know, that you learn from and teaching them that's okay if you make the mistake, and just how do you get yourself out of it?

Learning Through Mistakes In Work

Kelly 43:17

You know, like so I want to take this opportunity to take exactly what you just said and frame it with how you approach that same thing in business, yes, and motherhood.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Yes, yes, I mean, I mean, let's let me think. I mean, it's funny because real estate and business, uh as a business owner, I mean, so much of the learning, again, going back to the school of hard knocks. I always say I learned real estate, I learned real estate on the streets, you know, because you do. You can't learn it. And especially in a business like real estate where you think you've seen everything and you Haven't seen, you know, Anne between Ann and I, we've done more than 800 home sales, and there's still things that come up where like, have you ever seen this before? I mean, have you ever seen something like this? So, you know, I think you do oh, you do learn from your mistakes so, so much. And, you know, of course, in real estate, the stakes are high, people's emotions are involved, people's families are involved, and their finances are involved. So I think it's twofold. It's number one, you know, working with the right people that you do feel confident and like you can do the best job for them because they deserve that. Yeah, they deserve that. Um, you know, and and then aligning yourself also with the people that know more than you do, and and being able to follow that lead. But but I, you know, it's so true that it's those, oh, those ones that burn you and you keep you up at night, yes, that you're like, but I will I am gonna be so much better for that experience.

Kelly 45:11

Oh, I had some of those humbling experiences in mortgage, and I think back, I actually I was reflecting on an experience this morning, early earlier this morning, and I'm like, gosh, how could that one have gone differently? Yeah, you know, there's just those ones that just like they're etched in your brain forever. Yes, and to your point, you go, I'm never gonna make that mistake again, or I'm never going to communicate in that style, or I'm going to ensure that I approach it in a different manner, yes, moving forward.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

Right, right, so true. And I think the same is true for motherhood. I mean, I have said this so much this past year that hindsight is 2020. Of course it is. But, you know, an experience in motherhood, my oldest daughter was diagnosed with autism at 16 years old. But there were so many signs or so many hardships she endured prior to that that just didn't connect the dots for me. And I, you know, again, looking back, it's like, how did I not recognize that? How did I not think to dig into that further, or those sorts of things? And, you know, but it takes, you know, now I'm better for the next child, or I have that experience for my friends, or other parents that I see maybe kind of facing these same diagnoses, or going through, you know, you know, testing at school for dyslexia or learning disabilities. So that, you know, I think it's the same thing. It's like you go through these times that are so hard and so challenging. And now you come out of the other side, you shed that layer of skin, keep growing into the next one, which is like, okay, how can I use this now to help someone else or to make someone else's experience easier?

Kelly 47:13

Hey, listen, I am sure that there is a woman that's listening right now that is hearing what you're talking about and going, yeah, I've had the 2020 moment. Yes. Whether it's it's a similar circumstance to like a diagnosis or you know, those tough circumstances that happen in business, or just gosh, give the the day-to-day scenarios that happen with our children, yes, as well. I didn't realize this about your daughter. Yes, that's another fold. Well, that's another wrinkle.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

And, you know, you probably wouldn't unless I told you. And that's I think what can be the hard thing of, you know, kids, maybe the neurodivergent brain and that sort of thing, is it isn't always a very visible struggle that they have. And, you know, I mean, my two sons are also dyslexic. We've got a lot of neurodiver neurodivergence in our family. And, you know, that has been something that has become kind of a passion of mine is, you know, like, how can we provide more support for this in Edyna? Like, why aren't there more people connecting on this? Because I know people are struggling with it. You know, I've met I've met other moms, you know, and it's like, don't you wish there was a place we could talk about it or whatever. So I I think I think there's more awareness growing about it, you know, than there was when we were growing up. And I mean, my husband also is dyslexic, and and his he had a teacher, I think it was in eighth grade, that finally said to him, like, you can't read. And it was the first time like he had been called out, you know, he'd been just kind of bridging the gap and trying to figure it out, and just school kind of continuing to push him along. So all of it has brought such like an awakening to, you know, who we really are and how to communicate with each other, and you know, that sort of thing. So it's it's been there's been a lot of growth and learning and a lot of mistakes made, yes, um, in in that regard too.

Neurodivergence And Trusting Your Instincts

Kelly 49:21

All right. I want to dive into this passion of yours because I think that there's a space for us to be able to talk about it. And here's why. We we're gonna obviously continue to fold in the real estate business and motherhood, but this is this is a part of who you are, right? Like this has now become your world, and I love that you're going, why aren't people talking about it more? Or, you know, what are the things I wish I would have had at that moment of diagnosis for my daughter? Or what are what are the things that I wish that she would have been able to have at that moment as well? Yeah, a community. I mean, think about this, Sarah. I think I would love to see how that could evolve.

SPEAKER_00 50:16

Yeah. I mean, I mean, you know, I think that one important part of motherhood that, you know, you kind of learn over and over and over again is trusting your instincts, you know, and there were always signs of things like challenges with spelling. And, you know, like, well, many kids struggle with spelling and doing some extra spelling tests to see, well, let's keep practicing, you know, more practicing, more practicing. And I remember a teacher at one point saying to us, Well, I think she just is always going to struggle with spelling. And I was like, Well, okay. I mean, I guess she's, you know, I I mean, it was odd because she was a verocious reader. I mean, read her like I have, like I always say her reading ability scares me. She'll have like five novels open at the same time, and she'll be reading a chapter of them, you know, this book, then that book, then that book, then that book, and and that same thing.

Kelly 51:18

It's really cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

I know, which was like, I mean, this kid is like scary with the reading. Like, I just and I am not a reader, so like I was like, I don't even know what she's reading over there. But you would ask her to spell like the word the and she would spell it th. And you're like, how can someone who can read like that not spell that word? Like, and recognizing it and kind of being like, Oh, that's kind of something's uh, something doesn't seem right with that, and that, but then again, school would do another spelling test. I don't know, she just struggles with spelling. Like, in hindsight, of course, 2020, like trusting my instincts of like I probably should look into this further. Like, yes, school's telling me it's kind of okay. It's not school's fault, you know, it's it's not anybody's fault, but I wish in hindsight that I would have trusted those instincts sooner because I think it could have, I could have intervened sooner, you know, we could have gotten more resources sooner, um, without going through the hardship of her realizing, wait a second, on her own, I think I'm struggling with something, but I don't know what it is.

Kelly 52:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:34

So, you know, and I think if there was more community for those kids that are struggling, you know, that school isn't a exact perfect fit for. They don't fit perfectly in that box of like, well, I can sit really still in a chair all day and listen and ingest information. Like I can. Like I can do that. I don't feel squirmy or wiggly or, you know, I can stay focused, but I know the majority of my family cannot. So, you know, I think that's it kind of goes back to the whole, you know, there's I think there's a need for community for everyone. And that includes maybe people that are struggling with a different type of brain or trying to learn more about their brain and how it works and how to connect with others and find community.

Kelly 53:23

My one of the like big passions for a guest to be on is a neurosurgeon. So, or somebody who like um have you ever heard of Dr. Eamon?

SPEAKER_00 53:38

I don't think so.

Kelly 53:39

Okay, he it he wouldn't fit the niche of this podcast because this is mothers who are entrepreneurs. But I want to have a female on here who focuses just on the the brain and the behavior of the brain, specifically as it pertains to women when they when they make this transition from not being a mother to being a mother. Yes. And it's called matrescence. I don't know if you've heard of this. So I'm I'm in this like kind of time of life where I'm exploring like what is matrescence because that these are the things and experiences that I was having after having Maddie. But anyways, my whole point is I would love to have somebody on where they can speak to that transition that we as women experience when we birth a child.

SPEAKER_00 54:37

Yes.

Kelly 54:37

And taking it a step further, there is something that just shifts in your brain, even if you adopt a child. Right. There's a shift that happens in your brain. So I want to have somebody on, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

I love that.

Kelly 54:52

It'd be cool too to take that a step further and have them speak to the brain of somebody with autism. Right. Right. And where they're at on the spectrum, so to speak. I have a very tender spot in my heart for children who have autism. I so my degree is in elementary education. And when I graduated, I graduated from college. I got my foot in the door out in the Minnetonka school district. This was back in 2008. So, like that, think back to 2008. Going back. I mean, there was so much stuff happening that was in the like in the housing markets, right? Yes. The crash, but economy-wise, like the workforce was eh.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Yeah.

Kelly 55:46

And here I am graduating from college. Right. Somehow got my foot in the door out in the Minnetonka school district. And it was as a paraprofessional working alongside this child who had autism with him in kindergarten. So I was like side by side with him. Yeah. High functioning. Yeah. And just a gem, seriously. Emotionally, like just a whip in the classroom. Emotionally couldn't control the emotions. And so needed to have that additional support. And I worked, I was alongside with him for a couple of years. And it just had always like it. I loved working with him so much that I even thought at one point, oh, maybe I should go to grad school. Yeah. Or like get my master's in special ed.

SPEAKER_01 56:44

Wow.

Kelly 56:45

So there was a moment in time and then I I actually remembered do I really want to be in education, politics, and go back to school and accrue more in depth. Right. No, I don't want to. So I'm a firm believer that everything happens for a reason. It's all in God's plan. And um where I'm at right now is exactly where I need to be. But that being said, I oh I've just always had a special place in my heart knowing the struggles that, you know, depending on where they're at on the spectrum, it it's never easy. Right. It just isn't. Right. One of the things when you were talking about your daughter with the books, and and okay. So she was so like focused. I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. I know. Like they hyper focus on one specific thing. Yes. And it sounds like for her at that point it was reading.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

It typically it was a book series, though, like Harry Potter, of course. Yes, you know, but like that's not out of the ordinary that in second grade the kids are but she she actually strangely was a late reader, but she would invite friends over that could read so they could read Harry Potter to her. Cute. So so cute. But yes, the fixations are real. And I mean, you know, like I said, if you met her, you probably wouldn't really know it. It you know, for some people it's an internal struggle. And um, you know, I think you had made a point about you know, just being where you were meant to be or kind of where God called you to be. And that's been a big part of my journey too, is just knowing I was called to be her mom. And yes, you know, that even though I don't know what I'm doing all the time, that and even though a Lord knows I could do it better at time, I could have done things better at times, you know, this is my purpose, and and you know, not just her, but all of my kids and my family. So that's always been a good kind of grounding when things are hard or things are challenging. And I don't think it means you need to have a special needs child, like for everyone. I think, you know, just kind of being grounded in that place of like, well, actually, this is my purpose. So I'm I'm just gonna keep going.

Kelly 59:15

I oftentimes think about the commonalities from one interview to another. And what I've started to recognize there's patterns. There's patterns in like all of the women that I speak to. And one of them is is understanding motherhood is a facet of who we are as a human being, right? It's not our whole purpose, it's a component of it, and how we pull in some of these other facets, right? Like I am skilled in this area, right? I'm skilled in real estate, I'm skilled in project management for construction components of a house. I am skilled in being a podcast host, you know, like you name it, whatever. But for some women, there's a uh a phase that they go through, or maybe you have gone through, or I have gone through, where we feel like that's just who our let that's our identity. And there's a shift that needs to happen, right? To understand that's not our whole being. Let me give an example. Okay, I'll kind of rein this in and tie it with a nice little bow. For the longest time, I identified as a mortgage lender while also simultaneously saying, There's more to me, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:42

Yeah.

Kelly 1:00:42

But I was like, I'm a mortgage lender, I'm a mortgage lender. And so when I when we found out we were pregnant with Maddie, fundamentally something was changing inside of me. I knew that there was this sh this like bigger thing that was happening physically and that it was coming. Yes, right. And I couldn't shake this identity shift. I was having a really challenging time with it. I also, hindsight 2020, realized just how out of alignment I had been even before we found out about Maddie being pregnant or being pregnant with Maddie.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Yeah.

Kelly 1:01:23

Um not Maddie being pregnant. Sorry, listeners, that might have been really confusing. When we found out we were pregnant with Maddie. I wish that I would have like had that listen to my gut, my instinct that was happening way back when, and just gone, listen to this pause for a moment and go, all right, what needs to change here? And understand that yes, you're doing this thing in mortgage, but it's not fundamentally who you are at the core. Yeah. There's so many other layers to who you are as a person, and if you need to make a shift, it's okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:08

Yeah. It's okay.

Kelly 1:02:10

Right. I don't know where I was going with this, Sarah. I totally lost my train of thought.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:15

I think I mean, I'm following it right along. I mean, you talked about kind of being this definition of, you know, I am this, and it's hard to like turn that switch off or be something else. I mean, I think for us as small business owners, my husband and I, you know, it's for us, it becomes a struggle of priorities. And, you know, we keep, like I said earlier, like we keep saying to each other, our family is our priority, our family's our priority, but do our actions reflect what we say our values are? And this is an ongoing struggle for us because our work kind of ebbs and flows so much, and it, you know, it gets busy and then it's not busy, and it's unpredictable when it will be busy and when it won't. So being really intentional about it is a struggle because it's not a perfectly linear pattern, you know, to our workflow. So um I think this is something kind of circling back to Anne and getting into a partnership has helped me to align better, is kind of those priorities of like, okay, I don't actually have to have my phone on every single moment of every single day and respond immediately to every single message. Like I was thinking, am I gonna do this until I'm I die? Like I'm gonna have to just respond to every message urgently. Like, people will understand if at 9 p.m. at night I don't respond till the next morning. In fact, they probably don't want me to respond because then they have to respond. So I think part of that has been establishing better boundaries. And, you know, while yes, I am a real estate agent and that means I need to be responsive and present and feet on the ground and you know, that sort of thing, that still doesn't mean I can't establish healthy boundaries for myself and for my family. So, you know, I know it's like if I want to be at a kids' event, if I say to a client, oh well, I can't be there at four, but I could be there at five, nobody's ever like, no, it was four or nothing.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

Now I'm gone. I'm not your client anymore. You know, I think those things just don't happen.

Kelly 1:04:36

So well, don't you feel like that's the beginning stages of negotiation?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

Right, right, right. Let's see. Let's see. If I say jump, will you say how high? I mean, but I also find I think people come to actually gain respect for you when you are not 24-7 at their disposal because they can put together what you're putting on the line and on the back burner in order to do that for them.

Kelly 1:05:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:05

So, and that again just goes back to, I mean, that has come from the experience of watching these agents that have been in the business a long time. They're still going and because they want to, not because they have to.

Kelly 1:05:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

And, you know, they're doing it because they can do it on their terms and and they can still be effective and efficient even without being 24-7, you know, readily available.

The Village Behind A Working Mom

Kelly 1:05:31

So true. You had mentioned community. It's very evident that there's probably some family that's running around here locally, right? Yes. Let's talk just a little bit further about your village and and that community and community of support.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:51

Yes. And, you know, I certainly don't want to give the persona that, you know, I don't have any help because I think it requires. An enormous amount of help to be we're a working mom. So, you know, we have we actually have what who I call our guardian angel, who a woman named Chris that comes to our house on Mondays and she helps, you know, change sheets and you know helps wipe up bathrooms and you know, do floors, do whatever we need. It used to be sometimes she made us a meal, so we had time, you know, when we come home at the end of the day, we had a meal. But I mean, she's become part of the family at this point because she's also seen us through losses of loved ones, and you know, she's she's been uh a steady for us. And so, you know, we we have her help each week. Um, you know, we do have our family. So I'm I have two older brothers, and my husband has three older brothers, so you know, we only ever had brothers, and then everyone's married with kids, and the whole kitten caboodle, all the brothers, all the sister-in-laws are all local, which has been amazing. And we spend a lot of time together, we offer each other a lot of support, given many of them are also business owners. There's even sort of like an invisible board of directors for the businesses of you know, like, okay, this is what I'm dealing with right now. And there's just sort of like this, you know, people who can relate to what you're maybe going through, or people who can challenge you on something you're thinking of, or that sort of thing. And, you know, we have all of our sister-in-laws here, many of whom, you know, kind of work in their, you know, significant others' businesses. And then we have 17 nieces and nephews who are all, you know, our kids are on the young side of all the because we're the youngest, so they're kind of the youngest cousins, but you know, they're sort of trickling out into the world and you know, in all different colleges, and we have our first wedding coming up this summer that we're excited about. So and then cute, yeah. And then my my parents are here still. Um, and my husband's or my father-in-law is uh a snowbird, so he's you know, home for baseball season to to watch our boys play baseball and that sort of thing. So everyone is very involved. We dream extensively about a family compound and you know, building that dream. You know, we we have lots of ideas and just need time to execute, but we've got a lot of pilots in the family, many nieces and nephews becoming pilots. So interesting. What do you think it is? I don't know. I mean, I don't know why they all ended up there, and they were all very independent of each other. And then two of my brother-in-laws also have their pilot's license. So we have we have to have enough land where the the planes we can have our own runway and gotta have animals, but we gotta be below the freeze line. So we have you know, water that doesn't freeze for the animals. It's all coming together.

Kelly 1:09:11

Like literally, is this gonna come together? Because I will follow this very closely.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

I feel like we're seeing a big uptick in this multi-generational living. You know, we're seeing that here locally, but also, you know, I just you know met with some sellers recently that were like, nope, we just bought 120 acres and we're gonna build the family compound. And I'm like, yes, this is so good.

Kelly 1:09:38

And you can say, we're thinking about this too. Tell me more. That's what I said.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:43

I'm like, I'm gonna be on baited breath watching this. I hope you're putting it all over social media so that we can all follow along. Because I mean, we've talked about like, you know, is there a main building that has like the commercial kitchen and big dining room? And, you know, maybe there's tiny houses or smaller houses, and there's animals, there's food being grown. You know, we all have job responsibilities. Maybe you have employees that book family events or yes. Yeah, so I'll keep you posted.

Kelly 1:10:14

Please do. I'm gonna every other week I'm gonna be asking you about it. Right. Um, I we have covered a lot of ground.

Grief That Changes A Family

Kelly 1:10:24

We're gonna start to land the plane, but before I do that, I want to ask this one question because it's I think it's an important question to ask regarding going through some dark times, going through some valleys, so to speak. Like to talk about talk about the peaks and the valleys that we experience. Some valleys are shallow and some of them are deep. And so I'm curious if you have experienced a deep valley, and if you're willing to share it and how you worked through that.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:05

Yes. And I mean, that previous conversation was a perfect segue because um it really involves family. And uh just about two years ago, um, I've spoken a lot about our family, and two of our nieces are identical twins, and they went on a dirt biking adventure with their dad, my brother-in-law, uh out west just before they were leaving for college. And one of them was in a traffic accident and was killed out in Wyoming. And that was an incredibly dark time, you know, going through that. It was, it was grief in a way I had never experienced before, you know, grief on so many profound levels. You know, there was the level of what are what are what is my my surviving niece, Dinah? What is she gonna do without her identical twin? I mean, they were inseparable. Um, there was the layer of grief as a sibling of like, I'm worried about my brother-in-law, you know, my my husband, I'm worried about my husband because my husband's worried about his brother. So there's like the brother-in-law, there's my husband. And then, of course, it's watching my four kids and having to tell them that news, and as such a close family that hits so hard. And, you know, it was sort of this feeling of like, we don't know what to do, we don't know what to say, we don't know what the right thing to do in a in a situation like this is. And, you know, what what happened basically, my sister-in-law, um, Gina was my niece that passed away. Uh, you know, her mom, who was incredibly strong through all of it, you know, she just said, We need you guys here, you know, we need you to come up. They live in um the Monaselo area. And so we did, you know, all of us, every one of us went up there and we didn't leave. You know, we set up shop. There were bodies sleeping all over, all over their house. There was people kind of breaking down here and then there, and then picking this one up and picking this one up. There was food coming in from, you know, every, you know, the community just pouring in on them. And, you know, us just busying ourselves with like, let's change the sheets, let's go pick weeds on the driveway, you know, let's go feed the animals, let's, you know, help write the eulogy, let's, you know, all those things. And, you know, our niece, Gina, was an incredibly faithful person. And, you know, we all sort of suspected as we went through her room and saw her, you know, board of kind of post-it notes of Bible verses and things that almost seemed as though she had left for us to can, you know, kind of console us in our grief. You know, kind of like she knew where she was going. And that gave us the confidence to trust that, you know, she was going to the, you know, to be with where she believed, which was with her creator. And um through that really dark time of loss, so much good has been born from it. Our our niece Dinah started a foundation called the Live Like Gina Foundation. Um, she goes around, she leads a worship band and plays kind of shares her testimony about loss and you know, holding her sister kind of in her arms as she passed away. And and it was just, you know, they have become the the light that we needed. And and even Gina from above, you know, has kind of guided us through all of it. And, you know, that that was that was, you know, I think those experiences with your family can kind of make or break you. And we made a decision really early on that this wasn't gonna break us. It was gonna bring us closer, it was gonna, you know, allow us to do more good and share more of the light, you know, that we believe in with the world. And so I I asked my nieces, my niece Dinah's permission to share that story because of course it is the darkest time of our life too. Her my life's been a lot longer than hers, but um, she was 18 at the time she passed away. But Dina now, um, you can follow, you know, Live Like Gina is on Instagram, and she also leads a worship band called Dinah Lillian.

Kelly 1:15:45

So um she is an inspiration that you know is an example to all of us composing myself that is incredibly beautiful, and I love the the rallying support of your family to your point. Um, death does funny things to people, um, especially in a family dynamic and the fact that you had that much support, I mean that that was a cry of help, right? Like, please, we need you up here. Yeah. And no questions, right? Let's do it. We're gonna do it. And I can't say that all families are like that, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:16:38

Right.

Kelly 1:16:38

Again, going back to your point about um it's a make or break situation for families. And yeah, I'm sure that there's some people who are listening right now who can say that was not the circumstance when you know we were having moments of just ultimate grief.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:59

Right.

Kelly 1:16:59

And how people move and navigate through death is really interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:04

Yes, right, right. And especially, you know, a sudden, a sudden death like that that's totally unexpected. I mean, that was a a a kind of pain you want to spare your kids from, you know, you want to take it on yourself. And you know, I'd never experienced like that physical reaction to grief of just like my head feels like it's gonna explode. Like, you know, you you and your kids are kind of crying themselves to sleep, and you're like, just give it to me, like put it on, lay it on me, you know. But you know, it's it's not been easy, but I think they've you know, we kind of take our cues from them and let them lead us through it and just be there and keep talking about her.

Faith As A Daily Practice

Kelly 1:17:51

The beautiful thing too that I just want to make a note of is that faith piece too, and just the lean into that. Like I think part of the reason I was getting so emotional is just hearing um the the Bible verse portion of that and those subtle little things that we're just like, hey, everything's gonna be okay. Right, I'm okay, yes, and God is is perfect in the things that He does, truly. It doesn't make sense to us. I don't think we're ever gonna be able to understand it until we meet our creator, so to speak. And I can sense that there was comfort in knowing that there was this faith piece into it.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:38

It was the only way to get through it, you know. I mean, truly. I don't know. I mean, obviously we would have come out on the other side, but I I don't know, you know, if it would have had as much hope and as much, you know, we all have a genuine belief we'll be together again. So and that we'll see her and that she's with my mother-in-law, and and so if we didn't have that comfort, it would be a a much different experience. Yeah.

Kelly 1:19:06

Can you share just a little bit about what faith looks like for you?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:10

Yes. I mean, I would say, you know, faith has been a journey in my life. I was fortunate that, you know, as a child, I grew up in a faithful household.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:21

Um, you know, I met my husband at Holy Angels in Richfield. And so um, we we sort of had that fundamental sort of, you know, oh, both of our families believe in these same things, you know, and really going through motherhood, being a business owner, being married, all these things. I mean, these these experiences and journeys come with for me a need for more, you know, a need for like, wow, this is really hard right now. Like, I need, I need, I need a reason, you know, I need a purpose, I need to feel like I'm being called to to do this. And, you know, I think I heard a really good uh kind of sermon, so to speak, where he talked about, you know, we often sit on this throne and we talk to God and we say, like, please, I really need you to, you know, let me do, let me get that listing, or please, I really need you to let me do this or that, or if you could give me this, things will be better. And he said, you know, we're doing it all wrong. You know, he said, we're supposed to be kneeling in front of that chair and saying, like, you know, use me to do your work, you know, put me where I'm called to be. And in motherhood, that has been a guiding principle of like, it doesn't matter that this is hard. You know, I actually recently went out of town to my favorite place, one of my favorite places in Charleston, and you know, it was perfectly sunny. The flowers were all in bloom, every flower, you know, the air smelled intoxicatingly sweet. And, you know, while everything was perfect, I lacked purpose. You know, I was like, if every day I just lived my life like this, like it kind of get old, you know, like, oh, another perfect day, like sun's still shining, flowers are still blooming. So this, you know, it reminded me like even though it's hard, even though it's a struggle, even though I'm being challenged, even though I'm trying to shed that next layer of skin, like that is my purpose. You know, I'm that's where I'm supposed to be, and it's what I'm being called to do. So that has been, you know, on those hard days, I'm like, okay, God, you know, use me. You I hope I'm doing it right. But you know, I'm here, I'm here, I'm doing the work. So it it's a it's a big part of our life and the life of our whole family.

Advice, Real Estate Tips, Reclaiming Hue

Kelly 1:22:06

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:07

Thank you for sharing that.

Kelly 1:22:08

Okay, now we're gonna land the plane. Where are we landing? We got things to do, people to see. But this truly has been so fun, Sarah. And I enjoyed just getting a glimpse into your life and having you share with the listeners more about the inner workings of Sarah Schaefer. I am curious piece of advice you would give a younger version of yourself, knowing all that you know now.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:39

Oof. I mean, you know, I would definitely go back to, you know, there is a season for everything. And, you know, I in my experience, I haven't been able to have it all at the same time. I haven't been able to be killing it at work and killing it at home, and you know, killing it in general. Like those, those things, you know, there's a time for everything and and to be okay with that and and just know that that phase you're in is preparing you for what's coming next. You know, I in my business, when people say, How do you do it? How do you juggle it all? How do you, you know, how do you be everywhere? How do you run the household? How do you do all those things? And it's like, well, I never could have done it unless I had been the mom of four kids. They are who trained me how to function with no sleep, how to be focused when 50 million things are going on. Like, I wouldn't be doing what I was doing, what I do now, if they hadn't made me who I am. So it's like giving in to the season of life that you're in. Stop fighting it, you know, just indulge and and live in it because it is preparing you for what's coming.

Kelly 1:24:00

What an interesting viewpoint and lens. I had never thought of it that way. Oh my gosh. Yeah. All right. What's a piece of advice you would give someone who's listening right now that is exploring going into real estate?

SPEAKER_00 1:24:16

Yeah. I mean, I always feel, you know, the advice I always give around real estate is to work your business like you work a job. Like, I, for me, that means going into the office every day because that focus, I'm even if I have literally nothing to do, you know, there are those times in real estate where we're like, I hope the phone rings today. You know, and you know, going in anyway and going through the motions, consistency is everything. For me, I like kind of cower under the pressure of like, oh, you know, you gotta be killing it every day and you know, hustling every day. I mean, that's not sustainable to me, especially when I'm juggling everything else in my life, you know. So for me, it's like I just have to keep showing up every day. Yeah, you know, and that doesn't mean all day, even if it's just for a little while. Like, and the consistency is what pays off over time. Very nice, very nice.

Kelly 1:25:17

Okay, as you know, the name of this podcast is called Reclaiming Your Hue. Do you want, do you know the behind, like behind the veil of why?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:27

Well, tell me, tell me an elevator pitch.

Kelly 1:25:31

I came across uh this concept of flamingos. So when a flamingo has their flamingette, their baby, they lose all of their pink coloring. So I came across this video and it was on Instagram, and I was like, oh my gosh, that is how I feel. That is legitimately how I feel. I mean, this was years ago. So that was really where um the genesis of the podcast started. And so I am curious for you, what hue do you think you're in right now? What coloring, like what pink coloring do you think you are?

SPEAKER_00 1:26:11

Right. Like, am I still leaving a lot of pigment out there or is it all I mean, you know, as a mom of essentially four teenagers, you know, I think it's sort of twofold. You know, a lot of it is seeing your kids coming into their own, seeing the fruits of your labor coming to life, like those seeds you've been planting all these years, and you're like, I really don't think they're picking up on what I'm saying. But then you do, you know, you see an interaction they have with someone, and you're like, okay, we're doing it, we're doing it. So, I mean, I as hard as these years are, and I always tell people like they write books about this time of life for a reason, you know, when you got all these teenagers, but it's it's genuinely um rewarding, you know, as hard as it is. So I'm I would say I would say I'm gaining some of my hue back and and really looking forward to seeing where the kids go and what they do, and trying not to panic about it and trying not to be anxious, and also seeing that, like, you know, I look at Ann and I'm like, she's she's still in the driver's seat, and who knows how, you know, so I have this great long runway to still, you know, do whatever I want with. And there's a lot of I think um just sort of excitement and and I I don't have the perfect word for it, but just sort of like I don't know what I don't know yet. And there's sort exactly anticipation. Exactly. Like of what can what can still happen. Mm-hmm.

Kelly 1:28:01

Well, I am certainly excited to see how even the next year and three years and five years unfolds for you and Schaefer and Schaefer. How cool is that, by the way? And Schaefer, Sarah Schaefer. Uh, last names are spelled differently, but it's so cool. Like Schaefer and Schaefer. So cool. We think it's kind of fun. It is really fun. I think that how you responded to that is super beautiful. Can I give you what I think your color is? Oh, sure. I think it's like listeners are not gonna be following me right now, but with us being in person and lots of pink here, I well, the color of your phone case. We're gonna take a pink. I'm gonna take a picture of your phone case so that they understand when the newsletter comes out, we'll partner it. Okay. So that they can understand what I'm talking about. But I think like anytime I see you in the office, I'm like, oh, I just love Sarah. She is in a fun season of life right now. And to your point, this anticipation.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:09

Yes.

Kelly 1:29:10

It's gonna be so exciting. And you're, I mean, just talking about being here in the present, it's so cool to see what you and Anne are building together and how that is gonna continue to just run its course in the most beautiful and profound way. It's fun, and I love seeing that, and I'm here to support it, girlfriend. I'm here to support it.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:30

With the we love working alongside the curtain. Thank you too. Thank you. Yeah.

Kelly 1:29:34

I'm a woman who's listening right now and I've been inspired by your story. How can I connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 1:29:40

Oh, yes. Well, Schaefer and Schaefer is on Instagram. We have a channel there or a platform there where we're selling, you know, sharing about some of the beautiful properties we have the privilege of selling in Edyne and the Minneapolis Lakes. Um, SSfinehomes.com is our website where that blog I told you a little about has uh a few posts.

Kelly 1:30:06

I know I wrote it down. Actually, Ann had made note of she's like, you should follow Sarah's blog post. And I was like, really? So that was actually a nice little reminder for me to go back to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:18

And just to clarify, that doesn't include the old blog posts that's okay that are buried deep in the internet somewhere. Um, yeah, those are our main, I mean, we're on Facebook as well, but um we have a great Patty who does our social media that is a collaborative event. Uh we send her an email every week and are like, here's everything we have going on. Help. Yes, those shows.

Kelly 1:30:42

Well, look at that, but that's that's an additional layer of that community and support around you. And so I love it. I love it, Sarah. I love what you're doing. I am gonna be following very closely with this compound stuff that you're talking about. And my last little note, I wrote this down. Has anyone ever shared with you how similar you look to Sarah Jessica Parker?

SPEAKER_00 1:31:05

That's funny. Normally I get Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman.

Kelly 1:31:09

Oh my gosh!

SPEAKER_00 1:31:11

Yes, yes, the younger version or the older version. Oh my gosh. I mean there what is Jane Seymour, yes. And so at at Starbucks, at my local local Starbucks, they they put Jane on my cup every day.

Kelly 1:31:28

That's really cute. Yeah, oh my gosh, no, Sarah Jessica Parker. I was like, when I first met you, I was like, gosh, you looks like somebody who I it I can't place it. What is it? What is it? And it literally came to me in this interview. I'm like, Sarah Jessica Parker.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:42

Well, I've watched girls just want to have fun enough to start looking like her.

Kelly 1:31:48

Favorite movie. I love it. Yeah, Sarah, this has been so fun. I am really excited for our listeners to hear this episode and learn a little bit more about you. And so thank you for carving out the time to do so. I know you're a busy woman.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:02

Thank you for having me. It's been so fun.

Kelly 1:32:04

Thank you. Have a great day.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:05

You too.

Kelly 1:32:08

Oh I can always cut this part on.