Reclaiming Your Hue: A Podcast for Women Rediscovering Themselves in Motherhood & Entrepreneurship

Ep. 113 with Mary Younggren | Owner, Advent Talent Agency

• Kelly Kirk • Season 1 • Episode 113

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Faith-Fueled Entrepreneurship

She left an abusive, alcohol-fueled marriage with twin boys in tow, rebuilt her career from the ground up, and eventually grew into the owner of a boutique recruiting and staffing firm that can run without her. Mary joins us for a deeply human conversation about what it actually takes to survive big life transitions while still building a business with integrity, warmth, and staying power. If you’re navigating motherhood, entrepreneurship, or both, her story hits with honesty and calm authority.

We talk about faith as a real-world leadership tool, not a slogan. Mary shares how Al-Anon shaped her understanding of codependency, boundaries, and the daily choice to shift from worry to prayer. We also get specific about leadership and delegation, including the mindset that finally let her step away for weeks: building a team with trust, clarity, and decision-making power, then practicing a true disconnect.

Then we go somewhere unexpected and beautiful: Mary’s Camino de Santiago pilgrimage. Walking mile after mile becomes a mirror for purpose, self-talk, and slowing down, lessons she brings straight back into how she leads Advent Talent Group and how she thinks about work-life blend instead of chasing “balance.” Along the way, we touch the Enneagram, DISC, resilience through the recession and COVID-19, and why community groups matter for women business owners.

If you enjoy this conversation, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs a steadier next step, and leave a quick review so more people can find stories like Mary’s.

Resources:

Connect with Mary:

Contact the Host, Kelly Kirk:

  • Email: info.ryh7@gmail.com

Get Connected/Follow:

Credits:

  • Editor: Joseph Kirk
  • Music: Kristofer Tanke 


Thanks for listening & cheers to Reclaiming Your Hue! 

Welcome And How We Connected

Kelly

Good morning, Mary. Good morning, Kelly. You are such a light. Oh. Might I just start off by saying that. And um, I don't know if the listeners get sick of me saying this, but I have to say it every time that I have a guest come here and I can officially meet them in person, it's just glorious. It really is.

SPEAKER_00

Much better than on screen.

Kelly

I know to be able to like give a give a big hug and just have some like in-person, fruitful conversations and have that energy exchange. It's like it fills my it fills my cup up in a very, very specific way. And I am so grateful for it. So thank you for carving up time to be here. It's great.

SPEAKER_00

And this whole family experience is pretty impressive. I gotta say.

Kelly

It's the summertime, and I want the boys to, for the listeners, um, this is just the experience that I allow the boys to go through and our guests. When they arrive, they are greeted by the boys and they are offered coffee, water, or tea, whatever your preference is. They're usually helping out with that process. And so it's a nice, a nice way for them to be engaged, right? So well-mannered. You guys are doing a great job. Thank you. I appreciate it. Well, let's dive in. Okay. I would love for you to share with the listeners first and foremost how it is that you and I got introduced.

SPEAKER_00

Constantina, who is amazing. She's an amazing connector. No, she is just an amazing human. Yeah. She connected us around an event that's coming up in our space.

Kelly

By the time this episode airs, that event will have happened. We're one week away from it. So again, by the time this episode actually drops, I think that it'll probably be maybe three or four weeks after, four weeks after the event. And I'm super excited and super grateful for you. I meant to actually say that and share that before we hit record, but like so incredibly grateful. And Constantina actually was like, hey, because she was at the at last year's event and she loved the space there, but she I was like, I really just want it to be here in Edina. Yes. It's sort of a nice central focal point for a lot of the guests who have been on the podcast. And I want it to be easy access. I want it to be beautiful. And she was like, I know just the place. Go check it out. You tell me. And we met there, and I was like, yep, this is it. This is, let's do it. This is great.

SPEAKER_00

So yay, we're excited to have you. It's a beautiful building.

Kelly

Yeah, thank you. I'm excited for it. But that Constantina, um, just going back to how it is that we got introduced. Um, something that I appreciate about her is how thoughtful she is in making introductions. She really wants to ensure that it is um going to be the right fit. And I'm pretty confident she was correct.

SPEAKER_00

She knocks it out of the park. So she does. She's an amazing person. Yes. Happy to know her. And she's a great example because I'm a connector of people. That's my thing. And she's just got lots of things to emulate.

Kelly

Now, how do you and Constantina know each other? How did that connection happen?

SPEAKER_00

We've known each other because we're in that marketing space. Part of our business works in that marketing and creative space. And she's been a presenter for us. Yeah. As we present events for our client audience that are in that marketing community. So she's a guru that we've engaged to come in and be part of those events for us. She's fantastic. Yes, she is. So impressive.

Kelly

I like to tell her that she is very talented in her craft.

SPEAKER_00

She is knowledgeable, such a just impressive person.

Kelly

Agreed.

Motherhood First And Hard Choices

Kelly

Well, Mary, what came first for you? Was it entrepreneurship or was it motherhood?

SPEAKER_00

It was motherhood. Mother made motherhood.

Kelly

Tell me more because you had shared with me. Um, I always send over a prep email for guests in preparation for coming here on the podcast. And you did such a fantastic job of um responding back and giving me some insight. Frankly, when I have guests come on, I try to go into the conversation with pure curiosity and not doing a ton of research. And so when you shared that, I was like, oh, this is really, really nice, actually, to have a little bit. And I wrote a couple notes down, just a couple. But um tell me a little bit about your journey into motherhood. Sure.

SPEAKER_00

So I was raised here in Bloomington and had a very uh, we'll say wonderful childhood upbringing, very um, very Lutheran. And my grandfather was a pastor. There were a lot of rules, and I am a personality that, you know, kind of is that don't tell me what to do kind of person. So I met in my college experience this man that I followed when he moved to Florida. And we ultimately moved to Atlanta and got married. Okay. So I was living away from family because I wanted to get away from all that upbringing stuff, right? Like, oh, just I'm gonna be myself.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so I lived in Atlanta for a long time, and my boys were born there. I have twin boys who are now 36. Okay. And we were, of course, married, had kids, and the babies, you know, I thought would change this person because he was alcoholic, he was abusive. This happens over time, you know, it's a disease of progressive disease. And the the whole outlook of future did not look good to stay in that situation, and really lots of guidance along the way, right? I'm a person of faith, but um the boys were three when I moved back here, so I was in career before and very dug into this industry of recruiting before having the kids. Okay, and married to the ex.

Kelly

Okay, fascinating.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I had a very, very supportive my industry in staffing lots of women, and I had a wonderful team, men in leadership, but my leader was this wonderful woman named Lana who would tell me, you know, we we're doing this together. She was really a pure mentor and supporter for me. So during the time of, you know, being married to this person that wasn't always the best, I mean, I loved him so much. And it it was a really hard thing to go through that. But she, when I got pregnant, said, Well, we're gonna birth some babies. You know, she just supported me along the way. So even though, you know, I'm, as we've talked about, a seasoned person. And back in the day, I hear people saying, Oh, I was discriminated against and had all of these issues to deal with in the workplace. I was not. I had a great environment. It was amazing that I landed, always felt protected around that because it was a very supportive for what I was going through kind of environment.

Faith Al-Anon And Codependency Clarity

Kelly

Mary, that's really incredible. Now I heard you mention that you're a woman of faith.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

Kelly

And I'm curious, do you feel like that had something to do energy-wise? Let's go there. Let's go a little woo-woo. Always. Do you feel like that had something to do with just sort of this protection around you?

SPEAKER_00

Always. Yes. Although I don't think I realized it as much at the time. As I looked back, okay. I could see that.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And my journey included getting involved in Al-Anon, which is absolutely about our faith. You know, obviously it's not a specific denomination, but it's about higher power. And that is really what transformed me in the faith journey.

Kelly

Yeah. I'm gonna come side by side with you for a moment. There was a season of life that I had where I did date somebody, and it was a good chunk of time that struggled immensely with and at such a young age. It started very young, you know, in high school and rolled in through college. I think that, you know, it was just sort of the um social atmosphere that he was brought up in, and then going into college, just naturally being a partier. And then it as things progressed, it just it just got worse. Like you said, it's a very progressive thing. And by the time our our paths crossed um and we started dating, uh, the red flags were there right early on. But there was like this deep connection too that I felt like I had with him. And I know he felt that too. But at the end of the day, the alcohol won. It really did. And he's still, I'm pretty sure he's still alive. I haven't talked to him for years and years and years and years. But it's just it's a very challenging one because of the environment that we were surrounded in at that particular moment. But, you know, the El Anon piece too was something that uh I took the liberty of actually going to a couple of meetings because I was like, well, I feel like there's been these moments where we've talked about marriage and and sort of like this this extended, and then I'd have literally an immediate thought after that, like, how can I raise a family in an environment like this that's so tumultuous and and toxic? How can I do that? And that was the thing that really was like my heart guide for me was at the end of the day, going, I just I can't raise babies in this environment. If my heart can't even handle it, how am I gonna put a baby's heart through this too?

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

Kelly

And so there were a few times that I had stepped foot into some meetings and it was an eye-opening experience because there were many individuals that were there that had been dealing with it for a very, very, very long time with their spouse or significant other. And so also like led by God to have this eye-opening experience of like, this is not the environment for you anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely.

Kelly

And it took some time because there was definitely some codependency that was massaged in throughout all of that.

SPEAKER_00

But oh, I was the classic codependent, I was the successful person in the relationship. So he certainly had work, but I was the person who was driving a career, yeah, really accomplishing, doing what I felt I needed to do to lift up that situation. And that person didn't come alongside me. I always expected that, but it didn't happen. But I wasn't really aware of the things, you know. It's great you had that insight early on because I was still living in this, I've had lots of counseling. And so I I had this, you know, we talk about in counseling our daughter self, the expectations of me as a kid. I call her Mary Ellen because that's my birth name, and my people would call me Mary Ellen. And she was expected to do a lot and kind of lift up this family that had some, you know, depressive tacits to it. And so I was still kind of running away from that. And yeah, I was real happy to be with this person who didn't have that same family background, very different background. Sure. And but the the same experience when the guys were three is when I said, you know, I just can't do this.

Kelly

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So that is it's a tough decision to make.

Kelly

Oh my gosh. I can't I can't even imagine Mary having had children and then having to sort of rip it apart. Rip the seams apart. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And then you moved too, didn't

Snowstorm Wake-Up And Moving Home

SPEAKER_00

you? At the same time, yeah. Because uh I had wonderful friends there, and I still do. And there was not family there. So this period of time when I was newly single parent and separated from the ex who was going through some treatment, various things. We had this, you know, and uh in Atlanta, a snowstorm is a big deal. So it was 13 inches of snow. There's two snow plows at the time in the whole city, and everything was shut down, power was off, and we got really sick. All three of us. So twins get, you know, one gets it, you probably have this with your kids, and the next one gets it. And there was no remote working at this time. So, and I was in a key position leading an office for them, and I had to be out really, really with sick kid number one, sick kid number two, and me number three, sick. Yeah, and it was this time of snowstorm that I was really sick. So I was like, you know, heating water on my gas stove because the gas still worked, and and this unbelievable time, I was like sitting in my hallway, like, okay, Lord, I give this to you. I don't, you know, I cannot handle this. I cannot deal with this. And these children crying and you know, diarrhea, every, you know, just horrible. And my neighbor knocked on my door. They were just wonderful people. And he said, you know, we figured you were having trouble. We want to come over and help you. I'm gonna take you, you know, to a hotel so that you and the boys can be not here in this, you know, no power situation. So it was like Jesus coming to my door, is how it felt to me. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is like direct answer to prayer. So I remember driving down Beach Tree Industrial Boulevard for anyone who's been in Atlanta, and it was like, you know, snow, there's no snow plows. So it was like, and he was from the south, and he was like so worried to drive in this, but he drove me to uh what La Quinta Inn, I think it was. And and it was like, oh, I have power, you know, I have respite here. Yeah. And that was an experience for me that was like totally, I mean, I'm a person so hard-headed, I have to be hit over the head with things like that, right? To have to, you know, so I felt like, oh, God is like you need to do something else, is what that message was for me.

Kelly

So then when did you transition back here to Minnesota?

SPEAKER_00

Well, at the same time of life, I was talking to my wonderful boss. His name was Harlan Medford. Uh, he was Lana's boss and my boss. And Harlan, he was just a wonderful advocate. And they, this company was small and growing and had purchased in in staffing at the time, it was about purchasing other companies. And they had purchased something in Minnesota. And I talked with, and this is all like right divine stuff happening, right? And I talked with Harlan. Of course, they knew what was going on in my life. Um, I think they could see it way before me that this probably wasn't gonna last.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But about moving, like Harlan, I, you know, because he sent me this message when I was out those three weeks. He's like, Mary, we can't have you out three weeks. You have to come to work. And that was my kind of wake-up, like, oh no, I do, you know, I have to lead this. And I said, you know, Harlan, I really need to get back to closer to family.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm a person pretty loyal. So and I loved my people in this little company. And he's like, Well, what if we could move you? What if you could move back and you could run our Minneapolis operation? And it was again, you know, like answer to prayer. Like, oh, well, that would be great. They they paid for me, you know, I had zero money to come back and house hunt while I was gone. The boys had chicken pox. I had a great caregiver that, so I did not deal with chicken pox with my twin boys. The caregiver did. I mean, I still cannot, her name was Dina. She was amazing. She's like, Well, yeah, I have them in that, you know, that bath of that stuff that you I forget the thing. Pink milky frothy stuff. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I did not have to do that because I was up here trying to find a place to live. And they paid for all that. So it was just like this wonderful meant-to-be, but I also felt like I am jumping off a cliff and I don't know what it looks like. It's darkness below. So again, you know, and I had a client who at the time said, Mary, you are in the palm of God's hand. I just feel it. And that I've always remembered that. And they had this big going away thing for me. And clients came and I got these little, like I got this little statue that I and it said, bright in the corner where you are. And so the messages like that, right? The light. Because that is totally my purpose is to be a light, to bring joy, all of that. So it's just this whole journey was guided in in a way that I sort of knew, but as I look back, I can see it so much more clearly.

Kelly

Where does

Staffing Career To Business Ownership

Kelly

Advent Talent Group come into place here?

SPEAKER_00

Well, it's it's the company that I started in 1983 in Atlanta. Okay. And worked for them, moved here to work for them. And there again was lots of buying and selling of businesses through the 80s, 90s in my industry because that was the way to grow instead of trying to grow your own. So we were that little company that was southeast regional was purchased by another company and had then more offices. And Harlan and I were still at Atlanta to Minneapolis reporting to each other, but he called me and said, Are you setting down? I said, Yes. He said, Well, through the sale, we've acquired a mini Milwaukee location. And we have a guy that we want to send. We're going to make this into a franchise, Minneapolis. And we're going to send this guy, John Milkint from Milwaukee, to be your franchise owner. And he's going to be your boss. So, and he seems like a good guy. And I just remember, oh my gosh, right? He had been in the industry a long time, but I I didn't know this guy.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And you know, again, really watched over because John turned out to be such a nice, wonderful, good man. And he came to become owner of, we were called Temp Force at the time. Okay. And ultimately, John wanted to retire. And I did a buy-sell with John and took over the franchise, which was local.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And at the time there was a corporate entity. It's so long and complicated, but very large company that then acquired that. And we became part of another very large organization. Still, we were this little thing called Temp Forest, but we started then to be competing against a location that they had here, this new acquirer. And it was a you know $23 billion company. It just didn't fit.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So we pulled away from that. I took over ownership from John in 2002. So I became a business owner at that time. Okay. And then in 2015, so there was some time in between. That was a journey. We pulled away from that franchise and became completely independent. And that's when we launched, launched the name Advent Talent Group.

SPEAKER_02

I love it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's good. It's a, it's a, you know, continue to be recruiting and continue to be, we wanted the same, you know, I wanted to keep client relationships and stay doing this business with this great. I have a wonderful team. And that's why I didn't want to just walk away because there were opportunities, you know, to go. I had someone when I bought it from John say, why don't you just go open your, you know, just go to, you know, sit in a room with the yellow pages at the time. That was the yellow pages.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And a phone. And you could build this. You don't have to, because you had built, I built what it from the 90s when I had come until that time. And I Just I didn't want to do that. And that billion-dollar thing that bought wanted me to come work for them. Yeah. And that intersected with the whole mom thing because I, you know, John was pretty flexible and good with me about that with all those kid responsibilities. You know, I was single parent during the 90s.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I had to be the one going to take them to stuff, right? And I was always the we laugh today about being the last children at daycare, being the last people picked up. And one time I had to, you know, there was like a dollar a minute. And one time it was like $120 because I was an hour late. They'd be the only people at kids and company, you know, like the people would take them out on the playground. So we had this nice flexibility, but I didn't want to go to work for this mega thing and not have my own ability to schedule and be able to, hey, you know, the the guys have a game I need to leave, you know, and be on later. There was not as much of that then. Not as much flexibility.

Work-Life Blend Instead Of Balance

Kelly

It I was just gonna say that word flexibility, it sounds like you had quite a bit of that. Now I've come to learn that sometimes when we're given flexibility, it's like, how do you set borders, boundaries, and parameters for yourself as a business owner while also staying true to being mom? So true.

SPEAKER_03

So true.

Kelly

So let's talk about how, like, do you feel like you had good discipline initially when you became business owner of the company in 2002? I know that the then Advent Talent, um, the name of it changed in 2015. But when that happened, had you already established borders and boundaries for yourself and the discipline around like having this flexibility?

SPEAKER_00

No, no, I I was very, you know, I am in this boomer generation of, you know, my learning growing up was, you know, you just work harder and you work on the weekend, you work whenever you need to to get the work done. Yeah. So I would always feel that I owed time if I took time. And I did not have a good sense of, you know, I have this border, right? So, like we talk about the boys would be in the office with me on Saturday if I needed to do payroll or whatever needed to happen, right? The kids grew up in the industry, and that was very common for people my generation, right? So I think even though there wasn't the internet ability so much, like the working remotely, yeah, I went to the office to continue to work. So, and I would really stay up late a lot. We look back on that, and mom would be up until you know one in the morning or whatever, two in the morning. And and when my dear husband came into the picture, that was 2001. We're celebrating 25 years. Yes, congratulations. Thank you. He was like, What are you doing? You what are you doing awake? That is not, you know, you need sleep. So you know, it's all we laugh. I mean, several, I mean, women presidents, and we were just at lunch yesterday with the group, and one of them said, you know, work-life balance is a whole bunch of bullshit, right? It's not true. But I heard really early on, this wonderful speaker, she said, no, it's not about balance. For her, it was about blend. And that really spoke to me.

Kelly

I want to stay here for just a minute because I personally do not love the word balance. And when biblically speaking, I did look up the biblical definition of balance, and it was literally like about keeping the scales even like this. And when you think about life, you never you're never gonna keep it that way. And then I also have had conversations with other guests where I'm like, think of a teeter-totter. When is that teeter-totter ever, ever equally across the board? Like you could have a little wind blow and go, and that thing is gonna tip one way or the other.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

Kelly

And so for me, what I talk about, and this is all about all a part of the podcast too, is harmonizing, having harmonization blend and blend, which there's a lot of coinciding there. Absolutely. So I love that you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that was kind of a new concept, right? When I heard it, it was pretty early on, so it was like, wow, so I blend. And then the concept of row, results-oriented work environment, I think, was rising at the time. And that was a thing. Yes, some wonderful consultants at the time were preaching this, and Best Buy went into this row work environment. It was pretty innovative at the time. Where if you need to get groceries during the workday, you go get your groceries. If you need to take your dog to the vet, you do it, right? It was that only then you are on later. You just shift your schedule.

Kelly

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that really, I love that concept, right? The danger in it, of course, is then am I on till one in the morning? Yeah, yeah. So we have to take care of us in that. For sure.

Kelly

Well,

Self-Care And The Camino Pilgrimage

Kelly

what this is a nice little segue, Mary, to talk about what does taking care of yourself look like? Self-care.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, it's a great topic. I I've always said uh that's a challenge for me. Self-care is a challenge for me. As I've gotten older though, I've learned and through my wonderful husband too, because he's he's pretty good at that whole uh he balances me. We'll call him a balancer, right? Yeah, because he's a very different personality than I am, and he can help me to see, you know, is this really healthy for you to be going to something every night and working all day? Because I'm in all these things and I love going to them.

Kelly

And you're in just a completely different season of life, right? So for somebody who's listening right now that's, you know, in their 30s, 40s, and they're raising children to be out every single evening is very challenging. Right. You know, some they might do it for a a week or two and then realize, oh, you start to see the tail or the the scale tipped a specific direction where it's like uh, you know, either children are acting out or you're you're feeling a specific way, like that that um yearning for more with your family. But you're in a different season right now, Mary. So you like you can, but then I'm sure your husband's like, uh what about me?

SPEAKER_00

Right. And that is so critical. So really, really disciplined though about working out and really have been so much better through counseling, about trying to make that whole blend work better for me. And I just came back from the Camino, walking the Camino.

Kelly

I literally wrote it down. I'm like, we're gonna come back to this, but we're here, so let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_00

It was so amazing. Oh, so amazing. And I wanted to do it. One of my WPO colleagues did it over 10 years ago, and she told us all about it, and she was like so much changed by it. It was such a great experience. I've always wanted to do it, and I did this um whole, you know, planning of doing it multiple times with different people, and for whatever reason it fell through because the hubs didn't really want to do it. So I had to say, Will you go, will you go? And different people at different times. So this year worked because my cousin from California wanted to go. And we booked through a tour company that we just did the just did the last 134 miles. So we walked 134 miles from the end of May to middle of June, and it's this journey of faith, and it's a pilgrimage. And are you familiar with the Camino?

Kelly

Well, we talked about this when we were um in preparation over Zoom and you were gearing up for it. I was so we did talk a little bit about it, but for the listeners who are not aware of what the Camino is, can you fill them in? Sure.

SPEAKER_00

The Camino de Santiago is the way of Saint James. So it originated an ancient pilgrimage, and it's originally thought to be Saint James's journey. You know, Jesus said to his apostles, take my message to the end of the earth. And so James walked this particular journey. There are now many Caminos, but this is the one we did the Camino Francaise, which starts in Saint John in France, and you go through the Pyrenees Mountains and through this path of goes through northern Spain, and and he was going to the end of the earth, which he thought at the time was the ocean. And he is Finistera is the place that is the very end. So this was his journey to spread the gospel. And he ultimately went back to Jerusalem, was killed, beheaded, body. You know, they tell you the tour, people tell you they kind of wink when they're talking, like, yes, this body is buried here in the Camino, in the in the cathedral in Santiago. Yeah. Um, and and people go to the cathedral, and we did this whole thing where you hug the place where he's, you know, supposedly buried, but they are like, you know, we don't know for sure that these are his bones. But it's this cathedral in Santiago that is amazing. I mean, that's your you journey to the uh the Santiago de Compostela is the cathedral, yeah, and it's an amazing place. And I am not a Catholic, but I went to mass multiple times. It was so cool because you're in this pilgrimage with all these people from all over the world that are doing the same thing you are, yeah. And it's like it's not a thing that a lot of people do, right? I mean, it's kind of unusual. So you have to be a certain kind of person, right? To say, I want to go walk hundreds of miles. And I walked with people like, you know, there's someone from Australia, different people from different countries, this guy from Sweden named Pella, who said the camino provides. He said he had lost his poles, and the next Albergue had some in the lost and found. You know, they kept talking about this, which really to me is God's providing for us on this journey. Yeah. And it's, you know, what it makes us do is so my friend from WPO, Kate, the rules. Number one, we are not lost, and that's because every point you think you might be out of the way, you're you come to this marker that says this way.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I add, because God is watching us, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And number two is we are meant to walk. And our guide said, Oh, yes, that is true. And your feet are connected with your heart. So your heart is how you walk, versus her third rule was empty your brain. Yeah. And that's what it does for us. It makes us walk. Every step is like, okay, I have to get here. I have to. You're not thinking about all the thousand things you have to do for the rest of the day. It's it's completely in the moment. And my devotion yesterday was praying with our feet. And it talked about the Camino just randomly. I'm like, oh, I'm going to this podcast. I have to tell Kelly about this. And it was the prayer concern was pilgrims walking on the Camino. So I sent that to my group, which was amazing. We got really close with our people that were there.

Kelly

It's just really, I could talk on a really long time about it because it was such a I want to keep talking on and on and on forever about it because it's interesting. When you started really going into it, I got this like feeling in my belly, like this will happen for you at some point in your life, Kelly.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

Kelly

Um, and there was actually somebody else who she will be on the podcast in a couple of months. And she was talking about the Camino too, and how she had done it. And she had what she was talking about was that there is like like three things that you're gonna encounter, and it's sort of like this like you go down this um spiral of like who like this realization of self almost. Totally. And I don't know if that's something that you had heard or maybe maybe it wasn't the Camino, but it sounds oddly familiar from what she had done.

SPEAKER_00

So the of course, first thing for me is the guidance, right? That that we are guided. But I I listened to some books, wonderful books, while I was on the Camino, and one of them was a journey of these people were actually that I'm reading this novel while I'm walking, they were walking. And the thing was really meaningful to me. It was this person's summary was so it asks, the Camino asks, Who are you? And then who do you want to be? So it's it's about that, and that was, you know, I was journaling every day when I was doing this. It was like, wow, you know, who am I? Who, you know, because we have to keep asking that. Yeah, it doesn't matter what our age is, like, what am I supposed to be doing? What does God want me doing? What, you know, so I was just listening, right? During this journey, it was a very contemplative time. And, you know, it's it's what else are you gonna do? You're walking 15 miles in a day. Yeah, it's like there's a lot of you know, time. Certainly, there's people that you come across and you talk to them. I ran into some people from Minneapolis, that was super fun.

Kelly

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00

Like this guy had a St. Olaf thing on his back. I'm like, St. Olaf? He's like, Are you from Minnesota? So we walked together for a while. That was super fun. And it's that whole connecting, you find this kindness, compassion, yeah, this caring for each other. Like, I got horrible shin splits, and I met someone else that had had that, and she said, Oh, you need to go get this K-tape stuff, and that that was really helpful. So it's the spirit that was so overwhelming. And everyone, you know, though we're from all over the world, it was like this camaraderie. So you love everyone, right? And you you end up in this like big group of people you would see at the places you stop. Oh, how are you doing? You know, people from all over the world. That was so fun, and just like it's a unique experience that is, I think, unmatched.

Kelly

Religious experience, spiritual experience, uh, philosophical philosophical experience. Um what a cultural experience too. Absolutely. I'm so glad that we scheduled the podcast when we did so that we could speak to the Camino. Yes. Now I'm curious how long had you known about the Camino before you decided I'm doing this?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I I want to say like 15 years. And that, you know, my friend went to do it, and then she said, You gotta watch The Way. This is this movie with Martin Sheen from 2010. If you watch that, it sort of gives you the feel of what it is. It's really good. And then I heard Mark LeBlanc is another author speaker that came to my rotary and spoke about his journey on Camino. And yeah, I just continued to be called to do this. And the hubs didn't want to go, right? But I made him and the boys watch The Way with me a couple nights before I went. And at the end of the movie, he said, I want to do that. I'm like, well, honey, it's a little late now. But now he, when I came back, he he really wants to do it. So I think I want to go back and do more than just the last, you know, 200k that we did. I would do, I would start earlier.

Kelly

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Maybe not 550 miles, but but more. What's the time allowance for doing the whole thing? The people who kept going every day and did 15 to 18 miles, sometimes 20, did it in 33 days. Okay. And we did, of course, ours was 11 days walking and 134 miles. Okay. And the people I met from Minneapolis had left at the end of April. They had planned seven weeks because they built in rest days. So, which for another person I walked with, this lady from Australia, and she was taking like eight weeks. Okay. Because, you know, you I I was we were all laughing, saying, Yeah, that'd be nice to have a rest day. But you know, you just gotta keep going.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And even when I was in really bad pain, I had to keep going because that's just part of you know what I do. It's yeah, sort of in concert with this accomplishment focus that I have.

SPEAKER_02

And I'm the Enneagram three in you.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and our guide that kicked us off, she's an Enneagram student too, and we were talking about it. She's this seven, and she we're walking, she she walked us out through the first town, and she's like, Mary, you can't just focus on accomplishing, you have to focus on being there, yeah, and doing the walking. And that was absolutely my mantra, right? Like, let's not just accomplish. But with the pain, it was, it did get to that.

Kelly

So I'm grabbing my phone because I'm literally gonna pull up my Enneagram results for you. I've got a little three of me. Um, so I am by and large a type two, the helper. Um, type six, the loyalist, and then type three, the achiever. So my score for the helper is 24, and then that loyalist and achiever are like neck and neck 20 and 19.

SPEAKER_00

And which have you read about them? What feels right to you?

Kelly

Oh, for sure, the helper. For sure. Caring, empathetic, warm, thoughtful, appreciative, generous, other-oriented, tactile, affectionate, well-intentioned, demonstrative. Um, but my conflicts are people pleasing, flattering, clingy, worried, possessive, insecure, seductive, self-important, self-deceptive.

SPEAKER_00

That's true.

Kelly

Some of those words I don't resonate with. But um, at their best, twos are encouraging, loving, self-nurturing, constant, joyous, humble, forgiving, gracious, and compassionate, which are all things that really play into this podcast. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

So it is such a wonderful tool. And, you know, I'm familiar with lots of different of the personality style things, but this is this is inside, what motivates you inside. And as you study and take some of the, you know, some of the evaluations online will give you multiple ones like that. Because, you know, you kind of we all have all the numbers, yeah. But as you take other of the evaluations, you sort of land and zero in on one. Yeah. Of the two is one. Yeah. And and then we have wings. Yeah. So the wings are the numbers next to us that we can easily go to.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And so when you say three, that achievement is right next to two, which I can easily go to two as a three. Yeah. And you're right next to one, which is very um, the one is about accuracy, perfection, right and wrong. Like, is it right? Is this, you know, kind of that black and white feeling?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And and the two is like this selfless helping of a person that can turn into some of those things you mentioned, like can turn into kind of martery, like I've done all this helping and I'm not being noticed for it, you know. Yeah. All all the numbers have this shadow side.

Kelly

Yes. Do you know what has helped me through a lot of that stuff, though? Is my faith. Absolutely. It it's I have been discipling with this woman, Mary, that is older than you. Yeah, I heard that in the 80s. Yeah. And this has been a journey. The last uh, you know, it's like the the in-person version of Camino, like journeying, yeah, of like figuring out yourself. And I definitely have had some very humbling experiences with Pam. Well, that's amazing. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's what we have to do, what we do in counseling. I mean, it's it's about understanding, you know, what's going on in there, right? There's a lot of with the three, it's all about, you know, how do I look? Am I if you are, I mean, I'm a social. Three. There's subtypes, right? So, and am I focused on getting to these events to go back to the whole conversation about those? Is that just because that's my nature? Yeah. It could be a sickness. Yeah. So we have to think about why we are doing something.

Kelly

There have been quite a few notable individuals on this podcast that resonate with an Enneagram 3. One specifically stands out where she brought it up and she's like, I am like this, like all the time. And I think for her, she just doesn't know when to like stop to set it down. Now, the nice thing is that for her, specifically in her business, it is all-encompassing with like the family gets involved and you know, faith plays a role in it. And so I think that when you start to have some of that happen, which you're smiling, it sounds like you can empathize with this. Absolutely. It's hard to like set it down.

SPEAKER_00

It is. Well, and it's hard for a three not to be doing, right? We call that human doing, not human being, right? And I get a message every day from you know these different uh Enneagram emails and stuff. And and last weekend there was one that said, try just laying down on the floor and doing nothing today. How does that feel for you? I would never do that.

Kelly

Skin is crawling.

SPEAKER_00

I can't. I cannot do that. So I go to the lake though, and that's the husband again. Like, we need to go to the lake.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Out on the boat, and I'm floating. And I last weekend I was looking at clouds. Seeing that's like Mary. That's like therapy, right? You did it. I did. Oh yeah. At the lake I can do that. Where's the lake? In Emily. Okay. By Cross Lake, if you know.

Kelly

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Awesome. Island Lake. It's very beautiful.

Kelly

Oh, I love it. I love it. I had a thought. Oh, this is what I was gonna ask

Delegation And A Real Disconnect

Kelly

you. Okay. So you take, you carved out all this time to go on the Camino and have this religious experience. How did that play in with Advent and the business and what like stepping away from that for this period of time? What needed to be true for you to be able to do that?

SPEAKER_00

To have the business. I mean, our team has people who have been with us over 20 years. Yeah. And so, so sharp and capable and amazing. And and we have people with less than 20 that are also amazing, right? That so I though had to be able to step away and to say, you know, you guys, you have the power to make decisions while I'm gone. I told them I want you to pretend that I'm in a coma and that you cannot reach me. And I did not check email or Slack. I did not, I mean, I that's not true. I did look through email just to be sure there was no emergency thing from my tour company or from the team. But but I was out of email for three weeks and Slack.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So when I got back, I said, it feels like I've been on sabbatical. And I always have aspired to go on sabbatical.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because I heard someone speak about this a long time ago. Like she had taken a very intentional eight weeks away because her company at the time fostered that, which I thought, oh, this is so cool. I want to do that. But I I have a small company in a boutique, and I always feel, oh, it's that having a business, right? It's like having a child. People think you are so lucky, blessed, fortunate, whatever, because you can just do whatever you want, is what the idea is that people have about a business ownership experience, right? And we laugh, we talked about it last weekend as a family because the boys have a business, my husband has a business, I have a business, my bonus daughter has a business. We all are entrepreneurial.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that's what my my one son, he's like, Yeah, people say that to me all the time. Well, you can decide what you want to do every day. You don't have to ask for a day off. And yes, however, we still have the business. It's still there if we're not there. So the amazing team to circle back to that allowed me to be able to completely disconnect, which is the only and the you know, they don't need me all the time. I mean, they might ask me, well, what you know, I what about this, what about that, but they don't need me all the time. They are amazing people, very capable.

Kelly

I have two follow-up questions to this. One, a testament to Sue, because I had been in communication with Sue while you were gone, and she is like super responsive, real quick to the punch. And I was like, she got this. She's so good. She got this.

SPEAKER_00

We all have superhero alter ego, and hers is super girl. Super Sue. Yeah. Yeah, she super wheels on our bus.

Kelly

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

She's the person who does payroll, the accounting, all of that that really makes things ticks for tick for us.

Kelly

That is awesome. So that was gonna be one of my questions, actually, is um, how many employees do you have for Advent?

SPEAKER_00

There are seven of us total. Seven, okay, including me. Okay, and we have just this super kind of family feeling team. It's just really we've been, as I said, together for such a long time that we know each other really well. And even bringing so the team hired someone while I was gone. Oh, wow. Which was amazing. We had this, so our wonderful Kayla had a baby the day after I got back, and we needed to bring someone in to fill in for her. And Ben was hired while I was gone, and training and all of that has been such a good experience without me. And that's a it's just a great thing.

Kelly

Well, Mary, this does I wanna like, how do I ask this? I think of like a well-oiled machine, right? And that starts with the person that's at the helm. I'm piecing in two different metaphors here. So just stick with me. Okay. But how do you like what do you think it was in all of these years that you've been building this business up to get to this point where Mary can step away for X amount of weeks and know her team, the other six individuals there? It's a well-oiled machine. That doesn't just happen overnight. So talk myself and the listeners through what your process was to build that up. And do you feel like you took a lot of what you had learned early on, you know, starting in 82? Was it 82? 83. 83.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. I modeled what I received, which I think is so common for people, right? If they're, you know, just like kids, right? If they're raised in a certain way, then that's how they learn to behave. But I had these great leaders. I mean, the owner of the company that I went to work for, Eric Lindbergh was his name, had this program. This is way back before this kind of stuff happened in little companies called his management associates program. And it was an internal training program for leadership. And that just it was, you know, they had lots of unusual things like that that I learned so much early on. I mean, this is like, you know, in my late 20s, early 30s to learn about leadership. We had to read books, you know. We read, you know, Drucker and all these different gurus about management, which certainly things have changed, right, through time. And there's so many great, great, I love all the learning, all of the gurus that we can follow. But it is really the big thing that comes to mind for me is when I became a business owner, I had no idea what that meant. Because it was just the next thing for me to accomplish was to buy this business from John. Because, you know, I loved what I did. I wanted to do that, but I also remember sitting in the office going, I don't know what to do here. How do I own a business now? I mean, this is and and we paid for this business out of the business. So it wasn't that we had all of these resources to do this. So I had to make this business successful. And I joined uh the women presidents organization, WPO, not too long after I bought the business, okay, maybe 2005, and the guidance of that cohort of women that were in very similar positions to me, that we could guide each other. And I've also been very involved in NABO for many years, the Women Business Owner National Association, women business owners, um, since the 90s. And that's this sisterhood of owners as well. That I get guidance from others. And we mentioned, you know, I'm at Nidina Rotary, and you know, my accountant is from Rotary, my attorney, my wonderful coach and mentor from Rotary. So it's these organizations that, you know, that's why I'm always running to things, but yeah, I love them and I learn from them about, you know, how do we do this, right? How do you lead? And and you know, there's always challenges, and it's great to be able to run those with uh uh just a cohort of many people.

Kelly

Mary, you mentioned you just said this. I didn't know what it was like stepping into this business owner hat. I'm a woman who's listening right now. What would you say to that woman who's potentially stepping into the same exact thing? You know, they're they're going, they're diving into entrepreneurship. And what do you think is the one thing that they need to be aware of in flipping this switch internally in their head from employee to employer? Right. I'm the business owner, I make this ship move.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a really big thing if you let it be in your head, right? So self-talk for me is everything. Okay, and that was part of that early training. We did this training on self-talk, which I wasn't very familiar at the time. And, you know, the three again back to any ram, right? We can say we're not good enough a lot. Oh, I didn't do that right. Oh, oh, our fear is shame. Every all of them have fears, right? So it's like, oh, this feeling of not being good enough is so that was big for me, taking over this owner role. And yeah, then I think or thought at the time, I have to be a certain way. I have to, you know, I'm the owner. So how does that look? Yeah. And it was very big responsibility, right? To say I'm a business owner, but I'm just me, right? And so it's it's what I would say to that person is that you're on this journey for a reason and you're put in that place because it's part of your journey, and not that you made a mistake, but that it's you evolve and it's part of who you are, right? Yeah. And it's how we bring our true authentic self, not a self that like again, the three has this a lot of you know, plastic going on, right? Like, do I do I look good and how am I? That was a challenge for me. So we have to bring our authentic self and not think about, oh, what should I be doing or saying? Yeah. But also to have this, you know, some sort of coach, mentor, some kind of a cohort for yourself that you can, you know, rely on, call when some horrible thing happens. I mean, it's every day there's something, right? You know, something where you go, oh, and and there was something not too long ago where I'm like, oh, I mean it was before I left, but I come in the office, I learned something, and I'm like, oh no, oh no, oh no. And I had to turn it around and go, no, Mary, you can handle this. This is good, you can do this. And that's how I have to, you know, I I love sound of music. I always talk about Maria and I sing. I'm I'm a singer, so I sing, I have confidence. You know, she's walking down this road going toward this thing, she doesn't think she can do it. She's like, I have confidence in me. And that is what sometimes if the office is empty, play, I walk around singing that, or I think this is my business, I can do this, right? And it's I have to sort of pump myself up. I have to, because it's really easy to go the other direction, right? I have a choice every day of how am I looking at this? And I also every day begin with prayer, devotion, meditation. And that is the place where I get, you know, insight and answers sometimes, I feel like. And, you know, I'm journaling and I'm saying, What, you know, what should I do about this? Yeah. Right. So I also say to that woman that faith is a big part of the journey that guides us through. I mean, you know, it's like today this devotion said that it was about homecoming and it was about this person writing this must have walked the Camino or something. Because they said they that God walks with us every step through challenges. And that is so true in my experience. Yeah. Even though we think, you know, COVID, right? The business dropped by like 60% over us.

Kelly

Mary.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So we, you know, the husband and I are like, oh my gosh, what you know, his business was challenged, my business was challenged. Recession of 2008, 9, 10, you know, it's like we go through this roller coaster experience of, you know, not every business, obviously, but so many businesses, you know, especially small business, we have to deal with that economy stuff. Yeah. And it is, you know, pushing through, but remembering that God is with me. Yeah. Has absolutely gotten me there.

Kelly

Malleability.

Recession And COVID Survival Lessons

Kelly

It sounds like there's a lot of pivots. Yes. What did that look like during COVID? Well, uh, how about how about the 2008-2009 recession?

SPEAKER_00

It was, it was, so we had multiple offices because back in the day there was not as much like everything is online. So we had locations so that we would have applicants, you know, doing uh recruiting and staffing, so people coming into those locations. So we had to close offices, which, you know, was a journey, right? We were in leases, and we had to really focus on okay, what's the core business that we have here? Who are the core customers? Yeah. And how can we continue to grow those but find more of those? But we had to shrink our team at that time. And it, you know, COVID going fully remote from being in office, and our employees, you know, we do uh direct placement, but as we also pay contract people on assignment, right? So we had people on assignment with clients, and the clients canceled all of those because you know they were figuring out what to do, right? We had fear took over a big project that ended, you know. Ultimately, thankfully, we had a wonderful experience that brought us through a big project that came in. Again, it was like prayer. Like, what are we gonna do? Yeah. And I kept waking up at 444 a.m. Like, I don't wake up usually, and this was during COVID, and I got COVID right away. That was I was very sick. And I was like, why am I like, I don't know, three times. And I look up, you know, and it's like angels watching over you, the meaning of this 444 thing, right? Like you are watched over, and then this morning dove came. You know, we would sit outside because what are you gonna do in COVID, right? And there was a morning dove, and I just my dad loved morning doves. You know, he passed away when I was pretty young, and I was like, my dad's here, you know, he's here, you know. We're we're watched over with this experience of you know, trying to figure out how to totally do our business.

Kelly

All of us had so much uncertainty, completely different. Yeah, so much uncertainty. And I love that you shared like prayer was you were prayerful through it. And I think for a lot of people, that the easy button is to panic when things start to get really tough. The hard thing to do is to pray through it.

SPEAKER_00

So absolutely. Oh, not that I didn't panic. I mean, I was extremely we're human, Mary. Yes, yeah, yes, but I had a an absolutely amazing, again, the team of people like through my again, network, wonderful banker that wonderful accountant that helped me through this whole, you know, getting a PPP loan. Yeah, right. Uh-huh. And that really brought us through to this large project that we so it's like all of those things. I just was like, we're gonna be okay, right? And that's all about, you know, having faith that it's gonna be okay. And I had a coach one time who said, Mary, I want you to just think about this. What is the worst thing that could happen? And we walked through, I'm like, well, I could lose the business. And he goes, Okay, well, you lose the business. And then he said, What would happen then? Well, I'd have to get a job. Well, could you do that? Well, I suppose so. And then, oh, and or I said, Well, I might lose my house. I might, you know, be in debt, whatever. That's the way I would go. Yes. He's like, Well, then what would you do? And at the time I said, Well, I guess we'd move in with my mother. You know, at the time she was still living and she had a house. And so we walked through all this what if stuff, and he's like, So would you be okay? And I said, Yeah, I would. And that was a I have done that exercise, right? Sometimes it's like, yes, that that is that's a good exercise

Parenting Worry And Trusting Outcomes

SPEAKER_00

for me.

Kelly

Okay, Mary, you had shared that you recently had had a conversation with a new mom. Yes. Let's piece this in. I was thinking about you this morning on my walk and what you shared with me, which the listeners will understand here in just a moment. And it was like resonating with me. I'm like, yeah, everything will be okay. Yes, everything always is, even if it isn't, literally days later, you're like, and I'm okay.

unknown

So true.

Kelly

Oh, so God has me. Like, you are literally being lifted up, yeah, even through the challenging times.

SPEAKER_00

So true, walking every step. So we were at the lake at this party, and I was with two friends. One's the grandma, and the other is the new mom, and little guy is two, and the new mom has the baby, you know, on her. And little guy is like screaming, crying, he's very upset. He's running that, and the you know, they're worried about him, and he's so upset because he wants to go on the paddle boat and he can't. And and you know, they're just worried about whatever they were talking about, his some kind of emotional state, you know. And I just said, you know, I used to really worry a lot about all of the stuff raising, you know, I raised these children in their first three years, they were with, you know, this alcoholic person, and he took care of them sometimes because that was our thing, right? And that was not good, right? And they had this terrible separation at three years old from their birth father, whom they adored at the time. And we moved across the country. And I used to worry about how this would impact their lives. And then we got to what I told these guys about at the party was elementary school. And so we had to move, you know, we we were in this Golden Valley house and we'd started at this new school. Again, God thing, because my uncle was the gym teacher. But Luki was not, he had trouble reading. And Josh had trouble behaving. And Josh had a teacher at this school that she was super old school and she used to make them write sentences. And he was up to 250 sentences, like you'd have to 25 sentences each infraction. And like I will not speak out of turn in class. Whatever he had done, he would have to write on the board. You know, it was just not good.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And Luke had this horrible reading problem. He just could not read. And we used to, especially second grade, we would get these assignments. You know, the teacher was like, you have to work with him. You have to do this on the weekends. And we were the boys and I talking about this this weekend because it was super traumatic. Like he would be crying, and I'd be, come on, now we have to do this. And and Josh, you know, he would experience this through his twin too. And and but he got to fourth grade and he had this amazing teacher. And these boys are like reading whatever. Now I mean today, right? They're 36. So they've turned out really well, the boys. And I was so freaked out about everything during all of that, especially elementary.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I made them be separated because they were identical and they were super tight. I made them be in separate classes, and they were so upset by that that as soon as they could choose their own classes, they were choosing them together. And they would only go to college where both of them are accepted. That's so cool. They live together, they work, have a business together, they have one car. I mean, they're extremely happy together. And I tried to, you know, be worried about that. Yeah. I should have just let them be together. They want to, like the first day of kindergarten, Luke was like sobbing, like so, it was so traumatic for him that he couldn't be with his brother in every beginning of every school year was, you know, when they were little, was like that. So what my advice to this new mom is like, you know, just don't worry so much about it. It's it's as you said, right? It's gonna be okay. They're gonna turn out because it's who we are, right? They emulate us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And and as long as we're obviously, you know, teaching healthy practice and all of that, right? We have to be good parents, but you know, we're good parents and they're gonna be fine. So that was my advice to this young mom.

Kelly

I have I've came across this like saying about um, you know, you're a good mom if you actually worry about things, right? Like the moms that aren't worrying about things are usually the ones where it's like, whatever. You know, I know the fact that there is like even some of that, but it does it does take having conversations with wiser individuals who have lived through it. Right. And just got like take that advice and run with it. Absolutely it is so much easier to because we are human, we are subject to our emotions, and it's just how quickly can we move through those emotions. Exactly. And that's probably one of like the biggest patterns that I've recognized in a lot of the women here on the podcast is this growth through decision making and emotions and like shortening this gap between the two, right? Like I have to make a really big decision right now and just trusting my gut on it versus, you know, somebody like myself that's like, I've got a marinade in it, you know, it's a year later, and now I'm gonna make the decision. But this is it's been one of my like biggest aha moments in, you know, a hundred and you're the 113th episode. However, I've had some solo episodes, so let's call it a hundred and nine, 108, 109 women that I've interviewed. And I'm like, there is clear patterns in a vast majority of these high-achieving women where you can just shorten the the decision making or shortening the period of time that you're working through emotions.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

Kelly

And that that plays so well with what we're talking about here in moving from worry to be it being okay.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And the Bible study I'm in a long time ago, there was this thing we were talking about, you know, that whole control thing, right? But it's why worry when you can pray was this woman who's now passed away, Mary Jane was her name. She was so amazing. And she would always tell us that like, why worry when you can pray? She had it on her fridge. And I've that's always stayed with me because that's where I go if there's worry.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I've recently joined another, okay, it's a new thing I'm in, Allen Executives, great group, which is mostly men. And men are different at decision making. Oh, for sure. And this is an interesting experience for me to because I'm so involved in women, women's organizations, that to hear of all of these men in this group, how they walk through, there's just a whole different process. And I'm learning from that. So that's an interesting thing, too.

Kelly

What's been a big takeaway in that? I I'm very curious.

SPEAKER_00

Well, when I was leaving, the whole idea of telling the team that I was in a coma came from that example of this other person, this owner who said, I told my team, you think of me as I'm dead.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Just you can't reach me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I thought, oh, that would never occur to me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So it the the it's just this different way of looking at a problem and solving a problem that is much more cut and dried than my natural reaction, which is more emotional. Yeah. And not that, you know, one or the other is right or wrong, but this, you know, and I raised an issue around the um, you know, being disconnecting and whatever. And it it was about, well, the way I solved that was this. I told them, you know, it was the, you know, here's the identify the problem, give me three solutions, and then tell me which one you recommend. It was the one three one method.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And this is from that group that I have taken away. So every time I'm with other business owners, I'm super learning. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But this is interesting, kind of a different perspective.

Kelly

Oh, I I love it. I actually wrote down the word evolution. I would love to talk through how you felt like you yourself, Mary, have evolutionized. I wonder if I just made up a word there. Evolved. Evolved. Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

Kelly

From Atlanta to moving back to Minnesota, becoming a business owner. It sounds like growth and forever learning is a really a part of that. Oh, so much. But tell me, tell me a little bit more about how you feel like you've and you said it, you're a boomer. Yes. And there's there are clear-cut differences between generations. Like I'm a millennial, elder millennial, by the way. And I like to say that the elder millennials are a different kind of breed from the rest of the millennials.

SPEAKER_03

I think that's true. I do.

Kelly

Um, but you know, just the evolution to with um the economy and technology and all of that stuff. Like, I would love to hear how you have navigated this and evolved through all of it.

SPEAKER_00

That's a great question. There's a lot of evolution. And you know, the first place I went was um not to go back too far, but ninth grade career day. I saw a video in this career day about people going through drug rehab. And at that moment, I said, that is what I want to do with my life. I want to help people that are going through addiction. And so I majored in social work and psychology, which when I did my internship, which is after you know, you're almost done with college, I realized that's not the thing for me. That's just not, you know, I'm a results person, I need speed and action. And you don't, you know, helping someone through that's a takes a long time to be a counselor or a psychologist.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And all I I just it was so here I was with this liberal arts degree. And I had to evolve right out of that, right? And I moved to Florida with the ex and got a job where I went, they were gonna get me a job. And I went in and they said, Well, how would you like to work here? And I'm like, Okay. So I started in the employment business in this little tiny office that did this direct placement at the time, but it was like this people business, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And I found that I enjoyed that. And then I went in Atlanta with a company that it was a different company, but one day I was talking to this wonderful woman as a part of my job. She was a candidate, and I hung up the phone and I thought, I'm getting paid to do this. This is really, I love this. And so it we say it gets in your blood, my industry, right? Because we love people, and we also laugh because that's super like people don't always they let us down, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But that evolution into from what I thought I was gonna do into doing this biz. And then, of course, we've talked about how I became the business owners because that was my next thing to accomplish, right? Yeah, and I still was not, I was a little deaf to myself yet. Like I don't think I really understood, you know, this is because of who you are as a personality, Mary, that you're doing this, right? I was just like, I'm doing this. Yeah, and that evolution has come from really learning more about myself. I mean, through those other tools I mentioned, right? Early on, the disc was amazing for me. All the disc tools, D and I. D and I. Yeah, it's it's an unusual one. I'm very D and the I. Yep. Because it's the pee please that's the I, but the driver for sure.

Kelly

I have both of those. My husband is the driver, I'm the I. I believe that. And we, you know that my husband and I are in business together on the real estate side, and um we had this very stark realization that we need to have somebody who's a C in our business. That's my Sue. We need that. And actually, how we got to this is um we have a preferred, you might know him, Brandon Vitale. Oh shout out to Brandon Vitale. Okay, so he's a mortgage lender, he's our typical go-to. We've got a couple other people, but he's you know, our E Dinah guy. And he is meticulous, he is a C. He is a C through and through. We need this. And when I like looked it up, because our business coach, shout out to Jim Miller, he was like, Kelly and Joe, you need to find a C on that disc profile and bring them in and and have them doing some of the operation stuff, and you guys need to be in front of people. In front of people. Like, this is just what you need to be doing. And we were like, oh yeah, we know exactly the kind of hire that that it's gonna be. And it's gonna be somebody like Brandon who's like, it's so annoying sometimes. Yes, it's hard for us, but it it kind of brings you back to like, okay, here are some things that I've overlooked. Right. Or uh I would have been like, oh, that's fine. And then somebody else, like, Brandon's like, are you sure? And you're like, well, maybe I should relook at that. Absolutely, because we move fast. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And we're not good detail people always. Right. Yeah. That's so, so important. And I have great detail people on our team. And and my amazing coach from Rotary, Gene Morrison, is who did the disc with me and with my team really early on. So it was such a learning for us. The Myers Briggs early on. Yeah. I did through another leadership program. So learning about me is so big. Uh, this big part of evolving because then when I learn, then oh, I can sort of notice that behavior.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And maybe shift that behavior a little bit, right? And now I have an Enneagram coach who's amazing. Um, Karen Carlson is her name. And she has helped me to see, you know, how this threeness through everything, right? It is everything is connected to that. And and it the others, you know, the disc is about how we behave externally. Enneagram is what's driving this. And so it's just been really a journey for me to understand that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And slowing down is the big message that I got on Camino. Slow down.

SPEAKER_02

Ah.

SPEAKER_00

And that is such a difficult thing for me because I move really fast. The D, you know, the D moves really fast. Yes. And so does the I. Yeah. And so it's this need. I have this wonderful printing company in St. St. Cloud that I get stuff from, and she sends these little things with your order. And I got this card from her with one of my recent orders that says, slow down, you're doing fine. You can't be everything you want to be before your time. It's from a Billy Joel song. And it's like, wow, you know, that's totally my message right now. Yeah. So, you know, do I do that? Not always, but I'm working on it.

Kelly

Work in progress. Yes. One percent each day, potentially. And you know, sometimes that that's way better than what most are doing.

SPEAKER_00

So absolutely. But yeah, the learning is is just constant. And going to all of the opportunities that I can that have that learning opportunity, a speaker. Yeah. And then I learn through these groups that I'm in. It's an amazing thing to be connected.

Kelly

I made sure to put down those as resources. WPO, Nabo, Rotary, I think is a really great resource as well. I sort of feel like it's a great. It's a it's a gem that not a lot of people know about. It's like this like secret society.

SPEAKER_00

Have you ever visited Edina Rotary? You need to come.

Kelly

Well, Joe and I Joe and I are a part of the um morning side. Okay. And we smaller club. It's a little bit smaller club. I haven't visited the noon one, but when we do the combos, yeah. Yes. But I know Shelly Loberg very well. Shelly will be there at the event also. And yeah. She's awesome. Um there's Sutton. Sutton's been on the podcast as well. Sutton. Yeah, she's amazing. So um I made sure to write all of these down. Um, by the way, we have covered a lot of ground. We have. And I'm like a lot of ground to cover. Oh wow. Do you feel like there's any aspect of your story or journey that we've missed that you'd really like to talk through?

Business Pivots And Purposeful Connection

SPEAKER_00

That's a great question. I think the business side of things, right, for for what we do at Advent is is a thing that we've had to really hone in on certain areas because of changes in our industry. And that marketing lane is a specialty for us. Okay. And then this accounting office lane is another specialty. But we've added over maybe the last five years, this human resources lane that has been really great. And my new business venture is a partnership with a company in Fargo that provides PEO services, so professional employer organizations. So that's outsourcing of HR payroll benefits, all the HR functions.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And that is what I've continued to do for us to sustain this legacy business because we used to be like this super high volume staffing company that placed, you know, many, many people in office jobs and light industrial jobs. And so we've done this pivot and evolved as a company through this many years of being in business. And that piece of evolution is it kind of is in concert with the evolution of me, right? As a human. Not that, oh, I'm evolving so the business evolves, but I have had to evolve and pivot along with that economy thing we've talked about. Yeah. Changes in the industry for us. It's changed a lot. And we've added this direct higher placement lane. But our real focus has been in this nonprofit world, right? We do so much placement in nonprofit orgs, and that fits with that ninth grade thing because I'm helping the world because we're finding great people. And of course, for all of our clients and candidates, what we do is help them find the right next thing. And my role in all of this is to just connect people because that's what I get to do every day. So I'm not necessarily in that day-to-day of you know how setting up interviews and stuff, but but it's about connection and network and having people in my network that can, you know, be connected to someone else, right? That doesn't business for us, but yeah, it's just really a real purpose for me, is what I have felt, right? Like my wonderful event last night that I went to celebrating the founder of Little Hospice that I was mentioning to you. You know, he had a calling to do that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And my calling, if I have to like on Camino, it's like, what's the purpose, right? Of but it's it's bringing light and connecting and bringing people together.

Kelly

And you're doing it. I am. I love you. You are so doing it. And also, don't you feel like you really are like in the people space, you have to have an understanding of the psychology of how people think. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

I use it every day. So it was never wasted. It just wasn't the right path at the time, but I absolutely use it every day.

Kelly

I love it. I think we are ready to start landing the plane. Okay. So I have just a few more questions for you. Um, first one, Mary, is what's a piece of advice you would give a woman? Actually, a piece of advice you'd give a younger version of yourself, knowing all that you've been through. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think it would be to focus on the faith side of things more than I did in my younger years. And really to remember that authentic self versus the who I think I should be self. And the self-talk piece, all of those things to have known earlier on for me would have been really helpful.

Kelly

How about a piece of advice you would give to a aspiring entrepreneur who is also a mother?

SPEAKER_00

Keep going. It's absolutely every day, just keep going and you'll get through it. That is the thing that I always say is push through, right? To just push through because there's so much that we have to deal with. And to know that you're on the right path through that whole prayer journey or meditation journey. Journey to make sure that you are connecting in some way with spirit so that you can be certain that that's the right thing for you.

Kelly

Yeah, I like that. That's really good. Is there a favorite book, podcast, or show that you're musing over right now or obsessing over?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, there's so many. Um, I say recently the favorite book I've ever read is Theo of Golden. I don't know if you're familiar, but it's it's an amazing, amazing story. And it is just the best book I've ever read. I read all the time. So it's it's just amazing. And on the Camino, I read, reread Anne Lamot. I love her. Traveling Mercies is the book I read.

Kelly

Traveling Mercies. Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Traveling Mercies, Thoughts on Faith. Okay. She's an amazing author, and I love love. And that was, you know, as I was walking, it was great to hear that. Her faith journey.

Kelly

I love it. When you are reading books, are you doing it on Audible or are you physically reading? Audible. Okay. Um, is there a favorite room in your house that you may listen to these books or just like to spend time in? The reason I asked this question is because when we are working with buyers or sellers, like if there's a buyer that's walking through a house and they're like, this is the one, they're always talking about like a specific room.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

Kelly

And then same with individuals who are selling, they're like, this is where we spent most of our time.

SPEAKER_00

Well, here's why we, you know, my husband's a builder and he completely renovated our home two years ago. We moved out for like much of the year. Hey, good on you.

Kelly

This is the piece of advice we always give our past clients who are talking about renovations that were like, move out. It was, it was, yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

We lived in a one-bedroom apartment, however, that was not a good place for me in the hubs. But anyway, it was a great place, but it just is not enough space for us. Yeah. But we created this, we call it the Nook, and it's my morning space every day. It's my happy place. And we got these beautiful chairs from you know, these super Scandinavian design. You know, we did uh it's a mid-century. We live in Golden Valley and 1946, you know, and we created this little space. It used to be a little dining area, and now it's this cozy nook where we have the woods around us and the view of our beautiful renovated space. So that's my space.

Kelly

So cool. Absolutely. I love it. Thank you for sharing. Absolutely. I'm a woman who's listening right now, and I've been inspired by you. How can I connect with you?

SPEAKER_00

LinkedIn. Okay. Absolutely. LinkedIn is my primary place. Okay. And of course, you know, through our business as well, Advent Talent Group.

Kelly

All right. I will be sure to drop all of that information into the show notes for our lovely listeners. And speaking of lovely, Mary, you are certainly so lovely. And I thank you. And just the journey that you have been on. And talking about the journey of the Camino was really special. So thank you. And thank you for carving out time to be here and share your wisdom. Thanks for having me. It's been delightful. You are very good at this. Oh, thank you. I will take that compliment and receive it. Something that I've been working on myself. But Mary, I hope you have a great rest of the day. And I will officially usher you in by saying, welcome to the flamboyance. Thank you. Delightful to be here. Have a great rest of the day.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks, Kelly.

unknown

I did this part out. Okay.

Head Shot

Kelly Kirk

Host