Tommy D : His 15 year battle with Live Nation

David vs. Goliath: Tommy D's 15-Year Battle Against Live Nation
In this episode of 'Almost Live Nashville,' host Tony Mantor interviews Tommy D., a fearless concert promoter from New Jersey and founder of Juice Entertainment, who has been entangled in a 15-year legal battle against Live Nation.
Tommy shares his journey from the pinnacle of the EDM scene to being blacklisted and nearly homeless after Live Nation intervened in his plans to launch the biggest EDM festival on the East Coast.
He delves into his unwavering fight against the industry giant, revealing the mafia-like tactics, antitrust issues, and inflated costs used to monopolize the market.
Despite the challenges, Tommy's relentless pursuit for fairness and transparency aims to lower ticket prices, support independent promoters, and give artists the freedom to choose where they perform. Tune in to hear his compelling story and the long-awaited quest for a trial date.
Introduction to the Podcast
Meet Tommy D: The Concert Promoter
The Battle with Live Nation Begins
The Festival Dream Shattered
Legal Struggles and Homelessness
The Long Legal Battle
Hopes for Justice and Industry Change
Support and Challenges
Conclusion and Final Thoughts

INTRO/OUTRO Music: T.Wild
Mantor Music BMI

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

My career in the entertainment industry has enabled me to work with a diverse range of talent. Through my years of experience, I've recognized two essential aspects. Industry professionals, whether famous stars or behind-the-scenes staff have fascinating stories to tell. Secondly, audiences are eager to listen to these stories, which offer a glimpse into their lives and the evolution of their life stories. This podcast aims to share these narratives, providing information on how they evolved into their chosen career. We will delve into their journey to stardom, discuss their struggles and successes, and hear from people who help them achieve their goals. Get ready for intriguing behind-the-scenes stories and insights into the fascinating world of entertainment. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome to Almost Live Nashville. Joining us today is Tommy D., New Jersey's fearless concert promoter and founder of Juice Entertainment and has waged a 15-year war against Live Nation. What started as a dream to launch the East Coast biggest EDM festival at the Metal Lands turned into a brutal takedown. Artists forced to pull out, venues threatened, and a smear campaign that nearly left him homeless. Refusing to break, Tommy fired back with an antitrust lawsuit exposing Live Nation's mafia-like tactics, secret rebates, inflated costs, and chokeholes that limit artists to perform at different venues. This is truly a David vs. Goliath scenario. As Tommy D's case barrels towards a jury trial, it's more than a promoter's revenge plot. It's a clarion call for fairness in an industry where fans pay premium prices, artists get squeezed, and independents like him fight to survive. He has a tremendous story. So before we dive into our episode, we'll be back with an uninterrupted show right after a word from our sponsors. Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

No, I appreciate appreciate you having me.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Oh, it's my pleasure. If you would give us a little information on what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

What I'm currently doing right now is I've been in a 15-year battle with Live Nation, a New Jersey federal court. They wiped me out of my career in the entertainment industry uh 15 years ago. So now I sell cable door to door to provide for my kids and continue that fight against Live Nation and pay for the cost to continue to do so.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

So what happened? I mean, we all hear stories about the music industry and all the shady parts of the business in the past. Give us a little information on what it was you were doing before you became entangled with Live Nation.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yeah, I started a nightclub business um pretty young age, lived on my own at 16 years old, through uh house, crazy house parties to uh survive, pay my rent. I moved on there to uh nightclubs, might have wanted to build a club empire. And with a lot of hard work and my team's hard work over many years, I built myself up to one of the pioneers of EDM music. It was called house music back in the day, wasn't it cool? Out of New Jersey and New York. Over time, ran almost every major nightclub through New York, New Jersey, Miami, won a lot of awards as the number one sound system in the world. Booked pretty much every major celebrity artist out there, had tons of success. I got to a point where I couldn't get any bigger as a promoter. The next step up was into the festival business. So I saw EDM back in the day in uh 2010. Again, it wasn't mainstream yet. So I saw that it was gonna break mainstream. So I signed an exclusive deal with the State Fair Meadowlands. It's the largest fair in the East Coast. It's at the home of the Jetson Giants, MetLife Stadium, anybody that's not familiar, with a 10-year deal to produce all concerts and festivals. And I was on the brink of putting on the largest EDM festival in the East Coast. And then a company Live Nation found out about it, wiped me out, and that's where that 15-year battle began.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

What were some of the acts that you were working with at that time?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

At the EDM festival or back in the day?

SPEAKER_00 4:14

Well, let's just give the audience a little bit of both that you've worked with.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Absolutely. So um over time I did everything from Snoop Dogg, the Kardashians, Kid Cuddy, Tiasto, number one DJ in the world at the time, Chris Brown, Pink, go on and keep going. Long list, you name it.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

That's a great list. Now, what happened? You said that you had this contract. What led up to Live Nation creating this issue for you that you couldn't get past?

SPEAKER_01 4:41

Yeah, absolutely. So I didn't even know who Live Nation was for 15 years in the business in the house music that I was involved in. Live Nation wasn't involved in it. So I got a call from the owner of the State Firm Meadowlands. Right at this time, we had our talent in place, we had our staging in place, contract in place, everything set up. It was a turnkey operation. And I got a call from him, Al Dorso, great guy. And he told me that Live Nation just came in and met with him, blocking Tiesto. That was the number one DJ in the world that I was bringing aboard, blocking all our talent from the William Morris agency. That was their uh exclusive agency, bad mouthing us to the New Jersey Sports Authority, that's his landlord, the owner of the Meadowlands, to get us kicked out, and that they were gonna block our tickets from Ticketmaster.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Okay, what happened next after that?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

He was super nervous, he was the nicest guy in the world. He was screaming and yelling at me. I don't blame him after I found out what happened. So he asked us to go meet Live Nation because they were threatened to block the whole festival. They said to him if there was an event of 10,000 people, they had to be involved. And if they weren't involved, my festival was over. So I went into the Live Nation headquarters, met with their president, Jason Miller, and their vice president of talent, John Diaz Pazito.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

How did that go for you?

SPEAKER_01 5:49

In that meeting, they came in, attacked like wild animals, said we're gonna get you kicked out. There's loopholes in your contract, we're getting you knocked out of your knocked out of the festival. William Morris agency is our exclusive talent agency. We're blocking all the artists' dates like the DJs and artists you're booking worldwide. If they perform for you, so they're not gonna perform for you. We're gonna go to the sports author that we own the Meadowlands. That's our turf. We're gonna get you kicked out from them. I try to defend us, defend my partner's reputations. Like Tiasto at the time, my one partner, John Di Mateo, it was like back in the day, if you like wanted Mike Tyson, you'd call Don King. If you want Tiasto, you call Di Mateo. I tried to, you know, it's I stuck out for my partners. They then said if I kicked my two partners out, John Di Mateo and Vito Bruno, kicked them out of the contract, they would come into the contract, fund the whole thing, give me 50% of the festival. I only had a handshake deal at the time with uh John Di Mateo and Vito Bruno, but I've always honored my word. My dad taught me that as a kid. I told them I'm not kicking these guys out of a contract because you tell me to do so. And they then said they would block tickets from Ticketmaster. I said, How are you gonna block tickets from Ticketmaster? I've done tickets with Ticketmaster all the time. They said we own them. I thought they were lying until after I left their headquarters and I Googled Live Nation, bought Ticketmaster, and they had just bought them. Then I realized I was in a lot of trouble.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Did you talk it over with your partners? What did they have to say? What did they think?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

My partners were super fearful of it. One of the partners had actually booked Tiesto, did business with Live Nation, and he said, like, they have a lot of power. Obviously, they're huge, the 800-pound gorilla. And he said they're not in EDM, though. You know, they said they've only done an event with me, they're not in this business. But everybody was very fearful after their involvement. They even met with the Live Nation executives in Live Nation told them that they weren't part of the show. They were just gonna push a button and cancel it in uh two seconds. That's what ended up happening.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

Okay, that's tough. Now, this is just me speaking out loud. Why didn't you take the deal, give the perception you kicked out your partners, then have a side deal where you still pay them and it turns out a win-win for everyone. Live Nation gets what they want, and at least you're making some money on shows that you had.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Well, I grew up in New Jersey and I came from nothing. I built myself to the top. And in New Jersey, I had the mafia threaten me many times. I had mafia literally put guns in my mouth, threatened, you know, take me out if I didn't pay them. I didn't pay them and they let me do business. So I wasn't gonna let this bully sit there and tell me, take your partners out and have to cut some shady side deal with these guys because this billion-dollar company wants a festival when they have nothing to do with EDM. They were behind the game. Me and my partners were the pioneers of the industry.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah, okay. I certainly understand that, and I totally get it. But the worst case scenario did happen and you totally lost your shows. But if you'd made the deal, kept your shows, you all would be making money, even though not the same amount that you probably were used to doing. I totally respect how you handled this. So, what led you down that path when other people might have gone for the deal to make the money?

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Well, Tony, just going back to my upbringing, my dad passed away at a young age, but my dad always told me you had a handshake deal, you never break it.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, I get that. That was the way I was raised with my dad as well.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

As I got older in life, he was in construction, and I ran into people that saw him, you know, ran into me and they were like, I had like a $50,000 deal with your dad to pave the driveway and no contract, nothing. And you know what? He just shook my hand and I always got my money. So at the time I never thought of that. I just thought at the point, I'm not gonna kick my partners out. These people that are coming in there, threatening, attacking, screaming like maniacs and wild animals to block all my talent and block all my ticketing. Why do I want to partner with them? I want to partner with them in the first place from that. Why would I want to partner with these people?

SPEAKER_00 9:33

Yeah, everything you say makes perfect sense. So, what happened next?

SPEAKER_01 9:38

After that, the town agencies, we were at uh, as you know from the industry how it works, we were booking flights, we were right at that stage. It all went dark. We had millions of dollars. It doesn't seem like much these days, but back then in the EDM world, there was a lot of money. It all went dark, no phone calls were answered. The festival, we couldn't secure talent, and our contract was terminated by uh Al Dorso because we were unable to perform the contract. After that, I lost my career. I allege, and I will prove a trial if I get a trial day soon. I was nominated at the time as the number one promoter by the New Jersey Star Ledger by the fans. Live Nation had my name removed after they wiped me out of the festival from the being the number one promoter from the award. My reputation then was uh destroyed in the industry. Agents wouldn't pick up my call anymore, club owners wouldn't talk, and then I was blacklisted and out of the industry.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Okay, so that's a whirlwind of things to happen. When all the dust settled, they seem like they've won that battle. You decided not to give up. What was your next step to take this to the next level?

SPEAKER_01 10:42

Yeah, I ended up ended up going homeless from this for about a month. Then after after this had all transpired, then um I decided to get an attorney and take them to court. My goal at the time, probably being naive, was I have tape recordings of their top executives confessing to everything I'm saying right now. Everything I say, I have the receipts. So I assumed that Vive Nation with the tape recordings would um apologize, give me some money to get back my festival going, and give me my festival back. They promoted the people that did it to VP of Talent, to President of Talent, and the guy that they call Crazy and Nassine, John D Esposito, they produced a huge documentary promoting how crazy and asine it was on the Bamboozo festival. So it was not how I anticipated it. I mean, we anticipated a trial, if anything, within one year. It's been on 15 years now.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Wow, that's unbelievable. What has been happening over the last 15 years? What's been going on?

SPEAKER_01 11:37

Well, when the case first started off, Live Nation was ordered by a federal judge, Judge Manion, to turn over discovery within 30 days. Live Nation defied that court order for over, I believe, three to four years. My lawyers kept going back to the court asking. Finally, the lawyer, his name was David at the time, said, We know we're like wearing out of our welcome, the plaintiffs, but we're entitled to this discovery. Live Nation's only turned over 5% of the discovery to this day, which doesn't surprise me because recently in recent times, the Senate subpoenaed them and for information. I don't think they ever turned that over. So we finally ran out of money to be able to fighting over the discovery. So we had to continue the case after that with only 5% of the discovery.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Unfortunately, that's what these big companies do. They rely on their big pockets to wear down the opposition, hoping that you'll either give in or settle. The fact that you've lasted 15 years is a testament to you seeing this all the way through to the end. Do you have the same lawyer or has anything changed there?

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Yeah, I have a new lawyer for a long period of time. Andrew Smith, really good attorney, but it's only one attorney versus 2,000 attorneys of uh Live Nation from Greenberg, Troy, and 2,000 Paralegals. So, you know, it's a tough fight. I've continued the fight and I'm continuing the fight now for the scene, for the fans, for the independent promoters. And it's been a long time, though. It's 15 years.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

15 years is a very long time. Do you have a trial date set yet? What's happening?

SPEAKER_01 13:01

I had a firm trial date of March, was it 2024? And then um Live Nation wanted another mediation for the 15th time. So respectfully, the court did so, and I respect the court. Now it's I'm set up for November 18th for uh oral arguments where Live Nation is trying to eliminate. I have 500 trial exhibits, plenty of witnesses. Live Nation has zero exhibits and zero witnesses. They're trying to eliminate 497 of those 500 documents. It was October the hearing, it got moved, so it's uh November 18th, New Jersey federal court.

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Is that this year?

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yes, this year coming up.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

With all this happening, what does your lawyer say? I mean, he's entrenched in this just as much as you are now. Has he given you any thoughts? What is his outlook for the future of this case?

SPEAKER_01 13:50

My lawyer, seeing the information, seeing my case, knows I my case is really good, knows I have a ton of evidence in my case supporting me. He respects that I want to take the case to trial. He respects that I don't want to be acquired or hired or just take a payout like everybody else. And he respects that I want to take this to a jury and that I want the evidence to be exposed to the public. And a lot of evidence I have that was uncovered by an expert report that was suppressed by the late Congressman Bill Pascal out of New Jersey that he sent to the DOJ in the United States Senate, which I allege Live Nation runs a fraudulent, basically a racket of a business with two sets of bucks. He understands that I'm fighting this now for a greater cause for fans' high ticket prices that I believe, with my information exposed, that overnight the ticket prices would lower in the United States, 30 to 40 percent. So he respects my cause that I'm I'm fighting this for independent promoters, artists, and really for fans. I was an early victim of the live nation ticket master merger, but there's victims every day. And the fans are the biggest victim that sit on a queue line every day, and all of a sudden the ticket's $850 for a noseblee seat. Um he respects my cause and he's going with me all the way with it, and I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 14:59

With all the years, with all the people you've talked with, with all the artists you've talked with, have you got any support from people within the business that say, hey, I want to help you beat them?

SPEAKER_01 15:14

No, I have people that come up to me all the time on the side, telling me I really appreciate what you're doing. I really respect what you're doing. Like you're awesome. Like you've thought this for 15 years, nobody would do this. And they're like, I'd love to come out and publicly support you, but I can't. And I said, I totally understand. Because if you're an artist and you come out and support me, you're not gonna have a show. If you're an independent promoter, then you don't work for them already, you're gonna end up exactly where I am selling cable. And I don't want to, you know, that's the just what it is. So I don't blame the artist for not coming out and saying it publicly. I know Kid Rock recently just came out, but he has some politics that help him, I believe. You know, I don't I don't blame the artists and I don't blame the independent promoters for not speaking out publicly for me. Um a few have, but most and but behind the scenes, they're all supporting for me and rooting for me. They just, you know, and I tell them, I understand I don't want you to come speak out for me because I don't want you to be uh have no money, you know, and no shows.

SPEAKER_00 16:04

What about others that have had issues with them? It seems that if everyone got together, there could be a class action lawsuit against them, and it would be a bigger situation than just one person against a big giant like them.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah, I'm I'm not a lawyer. I don't know on that side with class action stuff. I just knew my lip my resources were limited. I didn't have the money of a live nation, obviously.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

Yeah, right, right.

SPEAKER_01 16:30

So um I didn't join with any nobody's joined it, joined in my suit.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

So it's basically you against the world.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Um, yeah, it's to me against live nation, which is as powerful as the world, I guess you can say, these days.

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yeah, pretty much when you're against a huge company like that. Now, are you okay with everything you're saying here? Hopefully, what you're doing is putting more information out there. But the last thing I want is this to hurt you in any way with the suit that you've got going.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Well, everything I'm saying, I'm saying of public information.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:08

It's either on PACER, put out by a congressman, that report, which alleges that Live Nation runs an illegal business in the billions of dollars put out by a congressman when Live Nation's attorneys accidentally uploaded it on PACER. So everything I'm saying is the truth, and everything that I'm saying has been public. I have all the receipts to back that up, but anything else private, I'm not sharing that out in the public domain. That's for trial.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Right, right. That makes great sense. Now, what are the expectations that you have for the first court appearance that you have coming up very, very soon?

SPEAKER_01 17:44

I know the courts are very busy. I respect that, and I respect the courts, but I'm I'm hoping to get a trial date. I didn't speak to the press, just so you know, until like in the last year. I was quiet, not a peep out of me. My fear is my witnesses are getting old. You know the club industry, you know how it works, and not vegetarians and um, you know, a lot of people party a lot, you know. They were some of them were old at the time. You're 15 years later. So I decided to come out and speak publicly because my fear if my witnesses get older, you know, unable to testify, then Lab Nation, their delay, delay, pressure, confuse, it wins. And um, that's the only way I'll lose a trial. Otherwise, I guarantee I'll win the trial at 100%.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

I would think that you could get their testimony in writing almost like a dying declaration, in case the worst case was to happen, at least that way you're covered. This way the evidence is there for people to see.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

Yeah, absolutely. Even like someone asked me that question before, it's a really good one. Depositions you can use, but trial strategy from my attorneys, where you don't want to ask everybody every single question before they're in front of a jury. You want to ask the very minimal. Then when you get in front of a jury, you want to ask them a real question because you know what? They said people tell the truth when they're sitting in front of a jury. So that was that's my look, that's been the strategy of me of my legal team, and um, I'll leave that in their hands, but I respect it.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

Sure. Absolutely. Now you're hoping to get a trial date very soon. What is your lawyer telling you now? What is he thinking? I mean, you've got your wishes and then you've got your reality. What's the reality of what he's telling you and what he's hoping will happen?

SPEAKER_01 19:23

He says my case is overwhelming in strength and trial date, we know the courts are busy and we respect it, but um, we nobody could tell on a trial date. It's been 15 years, so it's hard to say.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

Yeah, 15 years is a long time. You think they would want to get this off the dockets now, just because of the length of time it's been sitting there. The one thing they can say about you is you have been consistent and stuck with the whole program.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yeah, I've looked it up. I know um versus live nation, I'm the longest lawsuit against Live Nation in the United States, not being on appeal because I'm not on appeal. I can't even find on a Google search a case older than mine in the United States that's not on appeal. I'm not saying it's not out there. Again, we respect the courts. I blame Live Nation, not the court. Live Nation's gone um just delay, delay, confuse, you know, continuance. You know, I've been discovery, they turned 5% over. We gave everything. Some of it we gave emails with my business partners, like talking to their moms. We gave everything over, nothing to hide, and got a massive amount of trial exhibits and really want to just bring it in front of a jury and want to have it out there for the public to see, and and so it can really help the fans. And I believe it's gonna really help lower the ticket price, is my the evidence for my case.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

Yeah, you stuck with it probably longer than anyone would even think about doing it. Now, for the listeners that are listening to this, where can they find more information about what you're doing, what you've been through, so they can get a better idea of what you've actually been through over the last 15 years in fighting this?

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah, they can go on uh my website, TommyDjuiceentertainment.com. They can go on there, Tommy Djuicentertainment.com, and um, I just ask just ask for their support. If you want lower ticket prices, uh, you want a fair scene where independent promoters can thrive, I ask for the support and artists uh can pick where they want to perform, not just one monopoly that which there is right now.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

Do you have links on your site where they can go to find out more information? And a lot of things that you're saying, I know are true, but they need to see it in other areas so that way they can follow you.

SPEAKER_01 21:29

Yeah, there's some links on there. It goes to uh my TikTok, other ones on there, but that's a great point, Tony. I'll actually update it a little bit more on uh a little bit more of the background history of myself. I'll update it a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah, I think that it is very important for them to hear and see what you've been through. This music business has a lot of things in it over the past 50 years or so that have not been good. It's been taking a lot of research for people to figure this out. So I think that this is a great thing for you to. Put out there so they can follow you. Not only can they follow you, but they can also follow any links that you might have on there that will give them the information that they need to know too.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah, I have links on there where Congressman Pascal um found my expert report that was suppressed by Live Nation and accidentally uploaded to the court where he sent it to the DOJ and the Senate. Those links are all on my website. There's a lot of articles that were written about my case on there. Links are on my website. And they can also Google my name out. There's a pretty decent amount of information.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Yeah, that's great. I think the more information that people have, the better it is for everyone. Now, what do you think is important? What is important for the listeners to take away from everything that you've been through, everything that you're going through right now? What's important for them to gain for knowledge so that they will follow this all the way to the end, right along with you?

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Um, I think the most important thing that they can take away from this is um I'm sticking up and I've fought this for 15 years. In the beginning, it was an economic dispute. I did it to get my money and get my festival back. Over time, now I thought I had a moral obligation after the information that I believe I'm one of the only people that have Live Nation's back set of books that I allege is a racket. I've decided that I'm going to fight this and continue this. And I'm continuing it because of the fans, the artists, independent promoters, I believe the scene that Live Nations killed in the ever-increasing ticket prices, live nation inflation. It's artificially increated. And the evidence that I have off their cookbooks, I know is the reason I believe why I allege, and I'll prove it at trial, is the reason. So I'm fighting it for now for fans to be able to get lower ticket prices. Look, their CEO just went out on national TV and said, let's raise ticket prices. How many of your listeners are real happy? Or in a stadium, if he jumps out of MetLife Stadium now, Michael Rapino says, Let's raise ticket prices. I don't think the fans are going to be really happy about that. So I'm fighting this for the fans now, and I'm fighting this for other independent promoters. I'm fighting, I have kids, an 11-year-old who wants to run concerts. I'm telling him, go to college. I didn't go to college, but you can't run the scene that I did. He's like, Yeah, you're chilling with Snoop Dogg with those pictures over there. I said, Yeah, I went from chilling with Snoop Dogg drinking champagne to being homeless within a within a year. I said, So you know what? You can't do that. You're not able to do that in this industry unless something happens with your dad's case or the department of justice. So I'm fighting this for other people's kids too, not just my own. And I'm really fighting this for the fans and for the industry that I love and music that I love, and we had a fair industry again. So artists can pick which promoter they want to play for. Instead of like, you know, how nice would it be if there's 10 different promoters and you can pick who has better production, who has better costs, who has better, safer, safety, secure, safer security, you know, after world tragedy. But they can't do so. And I don't blame the artist. You have one choice you want a worldwide stadium tour, you gotta be with Lab Nation at Ticketmaster. There's no one else. For the scene that I love and that created me, who I became, I'm fighting it for that as well.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

Yeah, I think that's awesome. Now you say you have a lot of people backing you. Have you had the opposite? Have you had people going, hey, what the hell are you doing? You're out there making noise, you're disrupting everything, you're putting yourself in danger. Have you had that happen to you?

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Um, well, I've definitely had people telling me, hey, you're putting yourself in danger doing this with a $36 billion company. That's for sure, just even family members. I've had people uh from the that deal with the secondary market. Now actually, some of them are rallying around my side after they realize what I stand for and learned a little bit more about my case. Because I believe the secondary market uh needs to be fixed as well. But I feel like the way I mentioned, I break it down to them and now they respect my cause. I'm like, look, to me, it's like a bank robbery. And the one I allege is robbing the bank is Live Nation. The guy that's holding the van door open, that's the scalper. He should be prosecuted and he should go to jail. So I'm I am a support of changes in the secondary market that need to be made. Some of those ones that stood up against me, now a lot of them are actually understanding what I stand for and that I don't support scalpers because I don't like scalpers. They're now actually starting to rally behind me.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Well, that's good. It's always nice to have people within the industry supporting you on what you're trying to do because ultimately, if you win, then everyone else will win right along with you. Needless to say, I am definitely wishing you all the best and hoping that this can get over for you very soon. So I really appreciate you taking the time to join us today and tell us your story.

SPEAKER_01 26:34

Yeah, thank you. Thank you very much for uh having me on, and it's a pleasure, and um, congratulations on uh on your show how well your show's doing.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Oh, it's been my pleasure. Thanks again. This has been a Tony Mantor production. For more information, contact media at plateau music.com.