Inner King Initiative

You Can’t Heal What You Won’t Name

• Adam J Wilson • Season 3 • Episode 5

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You can’t heal what you refuse to name.
This conversation explores emotional gaps many Black men were raised with and how those gaps show up in adulthood.
Healing isn’t weakness. It’s responsibility.


Key Topics Discussed

  • Emotional illiteracy in men
  • Trauma disguised as anger
  • Chronic stress in Black men
  • Therapy as leadership
  • Marriage revealing emotional maturity
  • Forgiveness without apology
  • Faith and obedience
  • Healing as responsibility

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SPEAKER_01

And welcome to the Enter King Initiative podcast, where you know the goal is to normalize conversations and educate the black men. These are conversations that we should be having, right? And so today I have a really good guest. Um, Terrence, how are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00

I'm good, man. Happy to be here, man.

SPEAKER_01

Man, thank you for coming. I definitely appreciate you coming. Um Terrence is a licensed therapist. Yes, sir. Um, what do you focus on again?

SPEAKER_00

So I focus on men's mental health and helping men build healthier relationships. So I could be romantic relationships, sometimes even tangible things, like with money. Um, uh it could be family members, um, it's anything that has to do with relationships because I feel like as men, we don't really have that opportunity to really build healthier relationships. A lot of times the foundation is it can be very toxic and not intentionally, just because we don't really know how to develop healthy relationships. So that's more so what I specialize in.

SPEAKER_01

That's good. So, why therapy? What well, why did you become a therapist?

SPEAKER_00

Um, that's always so it's interesting because my why always changes because I always have these ideas, even this year. I was like, you know what, I think I'm gonna step away from therapy for a bit and try to focus on like some other things. Um, but even initially growing up, like I did not want to go to uh like grad school or I didn't want to do any of that. So initially when I was growing up, I wanted I just wanted to go play college football.

SPEAKER_01

That was a dream for a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00

That's man, man. But the the thing, the thing that's crazy about it was I had the opportunity to do so.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um, but in my senior year, I had a really, really traumatic uh injury where I almost lost my leg. So I had um, yeah, so I just I had to sit down that dream for a bit. And that, you know, that kind of messed me up to a certain extent. Um, it it was very hard even for me to watch college football for some time. Um, but fast forwarding to to go into school, I knew that there was a point where I wanted to serve people. Right. Um, I wanted to be able to serve people and to the capacity in which I wanted to do it, I really didn't know how to. Right. I think we all of us, a certain extent, we have like, okay, we want to help people, and you know, we have a passion to do it. But it's like, how do you do it? Right. It's like so many different ways you can help people. So I found a lane more so in therapy while I was working in the more in the justices, the justice population, people that's usually incarcerated or people that were previously incarcerated. Um, I was working with some kids um back in California, and I saw there was like, you know, therapy, I saw social work, and then I was like, you know what, I think, okay, let me let me see what's what this is about, right? So I know we used to leave lead groups in those, in those scenarios. We used to have points where um like the therapists would come in, and I'll always always hear boys sharing their story and things of that nature. And I was like, okay, that's cool, but I don't think that's me. Right. Right. Um, it took uh another male that looked like us, he actually more so took me under his wing and he showed me what he did as a social work. He ran a hospital and all those great things. So it kind of led me into like the social work realm where I got my MSW at uh Cal State Northridge. And then what happened more so while I was doing my internships, I saw what therapy actually was and what like the impact on therapy. I was working more in hospitals and inpatient, outpatient um in hospitals in uh clinical settings. So um more specific to the question is like how I become get into therapy. Um, I actually was struggling with my own mental health issues, right? And I saw I went through a lot of therapists. Um, I saw there was a need for people that look like us in that space, and it wasn't until I was working more so like in South Central uh Los Angeles where I saw like that there's a lot of trauma in those areas. You know, you have um for those of us that's not familiar with like South Central Los Angeles, there's a lot of gang culture, there's a lot of people dying on a regular basis, there's a a lot of just trauma just in the neighborhood, and people are living in this trauma, right? So a lot of people come to me to process, and I saw like there was a lot of gravitation towards me, and there was a connection I had specifically working with men, and I was like, you know what? I think this is something that is needed, right? So I position myself to okay, let me go ahead and get my license, let me go ahead and open up my own practice and let me go ahead and just go full-fledged on it and see, you know, see what God can do. And it's been it's been helpful, it's been helpful for me, and it's also, you know, I've been able to serve a lot of people, and yeah, it's it's it's it's been fantastic. So it went from, you know, I always think about that time where I was like, man, I want to play college football, but if I would have done that I wouldn't be able to be in the position I am in, you know, and I think that's just a tribute to what God had planned for me, you know.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because if you think about it, it's like you're not the only person who went through like the chasing the football dream and then it just collapsed. And it's that is actually pretty normal. Um, and it's scary because if you think back to that time we were coming up, it was hey, go play basketball, go play football. That was your way out sometimes that was the way out the hood. And for some people, it still is, right? And so you did therapy, and it's kind of normal. I'm hearing that a lot. A lot of therapists, like I I've healed myself first, right? Yeah, um, and I'm kind of on that journey now because I'm I'm going back to get my stuff and set um my master's and my doctorate.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, congrats.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and and so I I'm the same way. I'm like, man, I gotta work on me first, but working on me is exciting me. So it's like, okay, let me work with other people. Um, and so what is the most common thing around among black men that you're seeing?

SPEAKER_00

The common theme that I see, uh, I'm gonna specifically speak for me because I can't speak for like, you know, other therapists or what other people may experience. I think for black men, managing our emotions.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I think managing our emotions, when I say manage, because a lot of times we say, like, oh, well, a man should manage their emotions, meaning like they should suppress them. Right. Right. Um, I think every man has the right to be angry. Um, I think every man has the right to be upset, but it's more so about how we deal with it. So I think understanding you can't understand something, you can't, excuse me, you can't manage something you don't understand. Right. So for me, when I work with men, we have a whole, I have a whole framework where men are able to identify their emotions. So if they're able to identify, okay, are you really upset? Are you are you sad? Are you angry or are you disappointed? Are you frustrated or are you depressed? So I think that's the main thing is us being able to manage our emotions and not even just manage them, but identify them in a way in which we can actually call it out and say, like, hey, this is how I'm feeling, this is what's going on. Because again, you can't really hear what's not revealed, right? Right. So that's the main common thing is like that emotional, that that emotional intelligence that we lack.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, because if you think about it, like I think even for me growing up, I seen anger, but it's like looking back, it was probably some sadness in it. Right. Yeah. And and it's a lot of us grew up that way. Yeah. And in the struggle and the and seeing the traumatic things. Like I say, chaos was my life growing up, right? So for you, how was your childhood coming up? How did you see like your father, his emotional intelligence, or how did you see relationships?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I didn't really so I mean, shout out to my parents. I think my parents did the the excellent, absolute best that they could with what they had. Um, I grew up in a two-parent household. Um, later down the line, just fast-forwarding, my parents got divorced, I believe, after 27 years. Um, so a lot of what I saw wasn't really a healthy marriage per se. Um my pops, I know my pops had different things with managing his emotions, you know. Um, I think it attributed to a lot of the stress dealing with the marriage. I think it was a lot of stuff that was attributed to working a lot. I remember he would always come home and say, like, hey, I only got like four hours of sleep, and you guys didn't do X, Y, and Z. And it's like, yeah, if you were going off of four hours of sleep, how are you now supposed to be rested? You know, how are you how are you regulating your emotions off of a lack of sleep? And this is me having a conversation fast forwarding to where I'm at now because I I really resented my dad for a long time. Um, in which the way we were raised. I know me and my sister, um, and my and my brother too, I'm the oldest out of three. We would always talk about like how my dad would like whoop us, and it was like, yeah, did we get whooped or get we did we get beat? You know what I mean? So, like it's you know, I mean, some of the stuff is was warranted, but I feel like there was no really resolute in that. It wasn't it was more like okay, we feared more so than we actually learned from what we did, right? So I think I remember I resented my pops for a very, very, very, very long time. Um, it wasn't until I remember my pops, you know, I think attributing to his stress, he was on dialysis for I believe almost a decade or so. Um, he's still living. Um, thank God. He was in my wedding and all that great stuff. And we have a really good working relationship now. But I know during this time when he was on dialysis, I actually had a conversation with him because I was like, you know what? I think I'm only being cool with you because I don't know if you're gonna die or not.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I remember I called him crying. I was right there on um uh right by the LAX airport. Um, and I was calling him, I was like, hey, like, you know, I I I had epiphany and like I'm only being cool with you because I don't know when you're gonna die. But like I was really resenting you for a very long time. I'm on the phone crying, crying, crying. And he's like, you know what, so I understand it's okay. I'm sorry for what I did. And you know, I think since that moment we've been cool ever since, you know, and that was over a decade ago. I believe I was I think I was like 20 at the time. And you know, because because you I mean, the thing with me and my pops is like we're we're hella tight now, but it wasn't, I don't think it was always like that, you know. And I always look at the perspective and the work that I'm doing, and when I'm working with men, I'm like, yeah, that was a lot of what my dad did, you know. I think that's a lot of I can I understand that from the perspective where I'm at now, as opposed to being in that situation at that time. Like you don't understand when you're a child what's going on, you don't understand when your dad is upset. It's like I don't know what he was going through. I don't know if he had a bad day, I don't know what was going on, right? But you end up being uh, yeah, you end up being the the um the consequence of it per se, you know. So it's taken out on you or taken out on, you know, because I don't think my dad was always mad at us per se. I think there was a lot of stuff that was built up. So when he came home, a lot of it was exerted towards us.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's why I always say as men, we have to prioritize like us time, yeah. Um, self-care time because you will bleed on your family. How long have you been married?

SPEAKER_00

Um, we've been married, so I'm saying um because we got married first and then we had our wedding. Okay. So we've been married for about uh year and a half. So congrats. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, yeah, no. New new to the new to this, man. Oh extrapolate. How long have you been married for?

SPEAKER_01

I'll be eight uh years in April.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, I might be calling you for some I'm about to call you for some advice or something.

SPEAKER_01

You know, in the honeymoon phase, it's like okay, but they say the first seven years is hard to get through. Really? Okay, that's what I always hear from the older like um people who've been married like 10 plus years. They're always like, as time goes, after the first seven years, after that, you just start realizing that a lot of things really don't matter. Y'all just arguing for no reason. Um, but marriage is definitely fun. I can say that it can be fun, um, and it will bring out a lot about you that you didn't realize. And it shows up how you show up already.

SPEAKER_00

Nah, I mean marriage is beautiful, man. I love my wife shout out to my wife. Um, we even had a conversation last night about some stuff, and it's very interesting because one thing with us, like we keep God the foundation. You know, we before we even like, hey, can we talk? Let's pray about it first. Make sure everything's you know, everything's God centered. We're not attacking each other, you know. Our our our our marriage is real Bible-based, you know. So like how we how we move and how we talk with each other. Like we are human, right? So stuff may come up irrationally, and you know, she may, I may resent her, she may have her feelings towards me sometimes, but all in all, it's like we will to we really have a um a way of we how we deal with things. And yeah, I think this this is it's always a test, man. I feel like I'm being tested more than ever in my life, like marriage is testing like the I can you know what it is. It's like it's hard to explain when you're when you're not married because like you has you hear people, oh yeah, marriage is hard and da-da-da. You think it is just like, oh, okay, it's hard just to like be faithful to one woman.

SPEAKER_01

It's like everybody's mind goes straight to sex.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, which is crazy. It's like, I mean, the thing is like for a lot of men I talk to that are planning to get married or um looking to be engaged, I always tell them, hey, it's more than just trying to deal with those sexual impulses, like, yeah, you you want to make sure you manage that, but it's not not just be as soon as you get that ring or as soon as you get married, that does not mean that those urges go away. You know, it's preparation to become a husband before you become a husband. It's not just just because you're married, it's like, okay, now I'm ready.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

It's like even if you think about sports, like you can't just go out there and start playing ball and you ain't practice, yeah. Right? The practice is supposed to be harder than the game, it is right. So for men, I think it's really important for us to prepare ourselves to be husband. I I did the work prior to prepare myself to become a husband, and it's still difficult. Yeah, you know what I mean? So it's it's more about what a healthy relationship look like to me. Because again, my parents got divorced, you know. I didn't see like that healthy relationship. I'll say there were healthy moments. I'm not gonna discredit and say like it was all traumatic, but the the end of their relationship was divorce, right? Eventually. So, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it's it's a journey, man.

SPEAKER_01

It's mostly one you can't give up. I think that's why divorce happens. A lot of people they don't want to talk or they just give up. Like, I know, but then you have your days where it's just like I probably should have done this, but at the same time, it's like, no, I should have, because this is yeah, I'll be honest with you. Growing up, I saw the earliest things I can remember is my parents' whole divorce thing and how it started. Okay, your parents were divorced too? They were divorced early. Oh, I was like in the third grade when it was. Oh, wow. Okay. Um, and I'm the youngest of three. Okay. And uh, so I saw chaos, it's to the point where I didn't even want that for myself. Like, I didn't want marriage, I didn't want kids. And when I first got it, I was like kind of mad that I had it.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_01

Because that whole thing was in my head still. It wasn't until I started doing the work that I was like, oh, there's a blessing in this. I love it. Um, but even with kids, it's like you seeing yourself, a little version of yourself running around.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And if you're unhealed and you're seeing that, it's gonna get triggering and triggering and triggering. Um, especially like in your marriage. Um, do you do couple therapy as well?

SPEAKER_00

Do I work with couples? Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, how difficult is that for you?

SPEAKER_00

Um, you know what? It's not as difficult as I thought it would be. I think me doing my own work has been helpful in dealing with couples, but it can, you have your days. I think that's like with everything. But the couples I work with, I I think the different most difficult thing with working with couples is like I can see it working out in their head. In my head, I can see it like their marriage working out, but it's like trying to get them to understand like how it can work because it's it's you know, because they're they're living it, yeah. Right? Because in my head, I got okay, well, dog, you just gotta understand your wife needs X, Y, and Z. And you know, you gotta understand your husband needs X, Y, X, Y, and Z. And it's like I can see it, but it's it's up to them to really see. I think that's the most difficult part, is even just in the work that we do, is like I can see that potential in clients. Um, but it's not it's my job to help them get to their goal, not for me to enforce or tell them what to do. Right.

SPEAKER_01

Because you gotta guide people, yeah. It's it's more of a guiding because I'm not sure if you haven't, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Because I can't I can't force nobody to do nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Right. You gotta really want it. Yeah, absolutely. That's marriage every day. You have to wake up and choose. Um, and even the days where you don't feel like it, you still have to choose and do your thing. Um, I was listening to a sermon the other day that was like, if they're smoking your marriage, go put it out. Don't let it fester, just go put it out immediately. And I sat back and I thought about say, absolutely, yeah, because it would just get bigger and bigger. And I told men, I was like, women really reflect what we give them. So if you're giving her bad energy, she's gonna give it back to you. A thousand percent. Um, and so if you're giving her love, she's gonna give it back to you. So if you and they say happy wife, happy life, I don't really like that phrase, but okay, the the gist of just making sure she's happy, she's gonna make sure you're happy. Um, that's how I see that phrase now. Um, and so when you're dealing with these couples, you're seeing people, you know, don't the emotional intelligence that they're probably not um experiencing, right? What are some of the common problems with the relationships?

SPEAKER_00

The common problems with the relationships, you would think it's infidelity. Um, I know a lot of folks are like, okay, somebody cheated.

SPEAKER_01

And I don't know why that's the first thing.

SPEAKER_00

It's crazy because when people say divorce leads, the first thing is financials, infidelity, and all the other things. The more specific thing I feel that ends marriages is miscommunication. I think that because there's a miscommunication around what is one person feel versus what the other person feels. So even in infidelity, it's well, there has to be a miscommunication on what the other person needs or why that person not justifying why they led into infidelity, but there's something that's unresolved in them that they weren't able to communicate.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

A lot of times it's not even just okay, well, people can be having, you know, into be intimate with their wives. I'm saying more so men be men be intimate with their wives or why wives being intimate with their husband on a daily basis and still go out and cheat. And it's like, okay, well, it's not that y'all have there's a lack of sex going on, there's a lack of there's some other form of intimacy that sex is clouding to where that other person feels like they need to step out of the marriage, like an emotional disconnection. There's emotional disconnection, there's a need that's not being met, and sex isn't providing that need. Um, many times when people step outside of their marriage for that connection or that infidelity is something that they're not getting at home. And it can be resolved most of the times with a simple conversation. That's why I think it's a I'm a firm believer that there's a miscommunication that we have um in marriages that lead into these infidelities and leads into folks, even if even if it's finances, not even talking about infidelity the uh as the premise of why marriages don't work, but finances, right? There's some form of miscommunication where it's like a misbudgeting, or somebody feels they need to always go on Amazon to order XYZ or Grubhub, but there's some there's a disconnect where you guys aren't on the same page about y'all's finances, missing that alignment. Exactly. There's there's always a misalignment. So one of the things I work on with my couples is having that understanding of one communicating your needs, but then also being able to receive what's being communicated to you.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, and you gotta take your emotions out of it too. Yeah, you might hear something you don't want to.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you gotta, yeah, and that's the biggest part because you can have two people saying something, and as soon as somebody expresses something, then the other person's ready to respond and react. And it's like, nah, not even listening. You gotta, you gotta sit, you gotta sit there and listen. You gotta, you know, you gotta, I don't want to say take these lashes, but you gotta you gotta take the blow. You gotta you gotta live, but because these are things that this person's been trying to communicate for years to you, and this is the space to do it, yeah. So, you know, and then you know, folks will come back and say, like, oh yeah, like our you know, we didn't we didn't talk on the way or on the way back from because our session, or we didn't, you know, it was a rough time this week because of our therapy session. We feel like therapy is actually not working because since we became the therapy, things have gotten worse. It's like nah, things are out in the open now. It's it's a it's a resolve we need to have. Yeah, you know, this is it's it's work to be done, like it's not gonna happen in two, two, three sessions. Um, you guys have been married or together for some years, and over the time, this is where we're at.

SPEAKER_01

You know, a lot to unpack.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's a lot to unpack all the time. But yeah, it's it's what you know, with one person talking and having one the other person having to hear all that stuff, is it's hard to sit there and listen.

SPEAKER_01

It is, it definitely definitely is.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I I'm gonna speak for myself sometimes. When my my wife tells me something, I'm like, and I'm trying to like even me being a therapist, I'm human, I'm receiving what she's saying, but I don't like what she's saying. Like, she's saying something I need to change about myself. Like, I don't see the problem with it, but that's part of marriage, though. Is I have to have humility, right? To be able to receive the things. And you know what's funny though? Sometimes uh it'll resonate with me like later, not in that moment, but I'll be like randomly be just sitting down, or I'll be driving or something. I'm like, you know what? Maybe she was right, you know. Maybe I do need to change X, Y, and Z about me, or maybe I do need to think about things on a in a different level. So in the moment, yeah, I'm like, but then it could be some time where I'm like, you know what? She was right. She was right. She was right, she was right. And I hate to say it sometime is that you know, your wife is right sometimes. Sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes. Yes, sometimes, not all the time, but there are those moments where I'm like, uh, okay. I got it, I got it, I got it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it it's hard take. That's why I said you have to take those blows, but you also have to have that, you have to be strong enough to know, like, okay, she's not attacking me, it's more so she's trying to help us be better because we're on a mission. And also, and I can say my marriage changed for the better when we started talking more for sure. And because before it was kind of like, all right, let's just we got things to handle, you just let's just do it, right? But it wasn't real communication.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

But now that we're talking, the alignment is crazy. Like, like we're it's move, smooth transaction, right? And so for you, what's is some advice that you would give um a couple who's going through it right now? They're not talking, they're not aligned. Um, they just need help.

SPEAKER_00

Um, go to therapy. That'll be the first thing trying to find somebody who specializes in working with couples. And whatever issues you guys are dealing with. I think therapy is a very important resource of counseling and things of that nature. One thing I would say if I was to give a point of advice is make some intentional time to have a conversation. What if it's a day out the week, a time where you guys are, okay, Wednesday at 7 p.m., 7 to 8, this is our time. You know, whether if we decide to talk about things or we're we decide to be intimate during that time, but this is our time to connect, right? Because again, I mean you may have kids, you may be busy, whatever it may be, but I think that intentional time of people's going through is like there's no time to really connect. Right. So I think just an hour, maybe if you don't have an hour, 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_02

Something.

SPEAKER_00

Something's better, you know. We're gonna, you know, small small work is better than no work at all. Absolutely. You know, so we're gonna take the small steps to get close to the goal as opposed to like trying to make leaps and bounds. You feel what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

So we always look for the big steps. Yeah, yeah. So win.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, exactly. So uh case in point, some folks think they need to go out to like a whole day night and make things extravagant or go out the country or go on a trip to reconnect with their wife or their spouse. It's like, no, that's not necessarily you have to do that, but what you have to do is create time, increment of time. Because if you're doing, let's say, for example, 30 minutes a week in a month, that's about two hours you gotta spend together. Definitely two hours, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Definitely more than two hours.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. But if it if it's a small step, it's like okay, 30 minutes, now we're building to an hour, now we're building to two hours, it's okay. Yeah, yeah. Like we're we're spending the whole as much time you spend in one day at work or doing an eight-hour shift, you was able to do that with your wife in the month. Yeah, you feel what I'm saying? So, like, I think those those things are very important where make time, make time for the people that you love. I uh and I believe if you're not willing to make that time, you probably invested in the wrong person, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01

That's deep, but true. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

So, like if you're because time is our biggest assay. Some people say money and real estate and things of that nature, but it's the time. Yeah, you know, even folks that are very wealthy, they use their money to buy back their time, right? So if you don't see your time as being valuable in working on the marriage or the relationship, then that shows a lot, yeah. You know what I mean? If you can't find that time and connect with the person that you love or you're trying to build with, then you're probably not trying to build with them, nor do you really love them. That's just my opinion.

SPEAKER_01

I can agree with that, honestly. Um, yeah, I I say you sometimes have to treat your relationship like a business. Schedule, schedule time. Like we we set up a family calendar and we put everything on it. Sorry, all right, we're this time, it's our time, and it's a non-negotiable. You can't say we didn't say it, I can't say we didn't say it. We have to be there. Uh, what were you gonna say?

SPEAKER_00

No, I was gonna say because I'm really big on my spontinuity. I love spontinuity and like my marriage, I love just surprises and things of that nature. But sometimes when things get real busy, you gotta schedule. You do, you know, you gotta schedule. Like, I have to schedule a date night, or I have to like I hate to say it, but uh, sometime you might have to schedule being intimate with your wife just because you're so busy. Like, I'm running a whole business, right? You know what I'm saying? But I'm like, hey, you know, Friday, X amount of this time, this time, you mine, you know. You know, we go, you know, we're gonna we're gonna make up the lost time, right? You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01

There are some seasons where you can't, as a man, you can't fully be present because you have to go out and make it happen. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

You gotta go out and get it. One thing me and my wife started doing was like we have a Sabbath now.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

So on our Sabbath, we I think we're like, it's our like fifth or sixth week doing it. And that's been super helpful. Like we have our Sabbath, we know this is our time, this is our day, we rest, we chill for 24 hours. From we think right now it's like from depending on when I'm done, usually from seven to nine. Starts from seven to nine, around seven, nine p.m. on Friday, all the way up to like that Saturday. Okay. So it's like we literally not doing no work, not doing nothing. We go on dates. If we decide to be intimate, we decide to do whatever, you know, that's that's the time to do it.

SPEAKER_01

Do what you want. Yes, sir. I know some people are probably cringy, like, I can't go to work, like I can't do nothing.

SPEAKER_00

Yo, I it's it's hard because like I'm literally on Saturday. That was the hardest thing because I'm like, hey, on Saturday mornings, that's my time. Nobody else is in the office. I can go in there and do my thing, or you know, and now I'm like, okay, it was a big adjustment for me. I'm like, okay, now I need to figure out a new day. I need to figure out a new routine. I was against it, I was like, why? But she was like, nah, we need to like take some time to rest. We need some time to that's important, yeah, rest, spend time with each other, you know, and all that good stuff. And I thought we were doing a good job. Like, okay, yeah, we're going date nights, we've been hanging out. Like, you know, my biggest thing, I think a lot of married men or people that live with their spouse is like, hey, we live together, we see each other all the time, but it's it's different, see each other. Spend inside with each other, right? So it's like, yeah, we we do our devotional together, we have this, but it's you know, for her, it's like, hey, nah, we need like we need to slow down, you know, we need to like really enjoy each other's company.

SPEAKER_01

That's a blessing, though, honestly, because a lot of women ain't saying, man.

SPEAKER_00

You know what? I'm truly blessed. I ain't gonna hold you. I'm really truly blessed.

SPEAKER_01

I love that for you, bro. Because even if you're a single man, like that rest time is important. Like, you have to schedule rest. I had a homeboy and I kept telling him for months. I was like, bro, schedule time for yourself. Yeah, and he wouldn't listen. He was bedridden for like three weeks, he couldn't move. His body shut down on him.

SPEAKER_00

Your body's gonna talk to you, man. Oh, absolutely. Your body gonna speak loud.

SPEAKER_01

It's like you have to have that rest time. And people thought I was crazy a couple weeks ago. I was in the woods for like three, like four days, just relaxing to myself. And he was like, Are you okay? What's wrong? I'm like, nothing, I'm cool. Like, I'm just I'm enjoying peace right now. Okay, enjoying my rest, and I came back. I've been going ever since.

SPEAKER_00

Going to like out in the woods? Yeah, what you doing in the woods?

SPEAKER_01

Chilling, like you have a like a uh cabin or it was uh Marriott has postcard cabins, really, and they all there's one that's like 50 minutes from here.

SPEAKER_00

Well, we're gonna have to talk.

SPEAKER_01

Um, I got you sheep too. Um, but you go out there, there's a little bitty cabin, man. They got a little fire pit out there, you just bring food and it's you secluded. What you just enjoy your time out there.

SPEAKER_00

Shh, I've been trying to, yeah. That's not I've been trying to find a uh just sided, I've been trying to find a space like that uh for some time. Again, I'm relatively still new to Houston, so I don't really know like where to go. That's what's type of thing. So I got you. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. Uh, but yeah, see, like those times is you have those are intentional times, and a lot of people like wouldn't be open to trying something new like that, especially as black men. We're just like, that's not our stuff, that's their stuff. Like, we're not doing that. I'm like, sometimes you have to tap into that, yeah, just that space. Like, I'm a nature guy, so going out into nature for me is calming, it's relaxing, it's peaceful for me. Um, and so I would rather do. Like, I don't care to be in the club. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I told me, I was like, You you're really you stress yourself out trying to run the club life because you got the different women out there who just want you for your money. Um, and then you complain of like all these women want is money. That's what you've been giving. Stop feeding into it, right? And that's a part of your mental health, right? And so when we're talking about like that and talking about mental health, why is it important to really prioritize our mental health as black men?

SPEAKER_00

Man, that's where it starts. It starts in your mind. I mean, you have a lot of different thoughts throughout the day. I think it's the average man um has over some thousands of thoughts per day. Um, some of them translate into choices, some of them translate into behaviors, decisions, and things of that nature. But I think even as just men of uh black men, we deal with things on a different level. You know, we we have a different lens on uh how the world we're perceived, but then also um how the world perceives us. Black men have the lowest life expectancy out of any other gender or ethnic group in the United States. You know what that you know why that is?

SPEAKER_01

Mental health, suicide.

SPEAKER_00

A lot of all the above. So a lot of folks will will argue and say, well, especially if you're coming from California, it's like you see it all the time as okay, well, it's because uh game violence or uh because the police out there killing us, which is all true. And that is part of statistics, but stress is the number one killer in black men.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00

So you think about what does stress all entail? Um, stress leads into um kidney disease, it leads into heart attacks, it leads into uh shorter life expectancy. I think when I last checked, the life expectancy average for black men is like 64.

SPEAKER_01

That's young, though.

SPEAKER_00

Very young, very much so, as opposed to our counterparts, which is usually up into the 80s. Yeah, you know. Um, I know black women, it's it's higher than ours, but they have at least over like 15 years over us, which is crazy though.

SPEAKER_01

You know, so like imagine leaving your wife for 15 years by herself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. If if if if we're maxing out the statistics, like I don't plan to be a statistic, I know you don't plan to be a statistic, but the reason to go back to your question around why mental health is so important is because there's a lot of things that we can resolve within our within a conversation. There's a lot of things we can resolve in in therapy so that we're not stressed out. Um again, I have my moments too. I'm speaking from experience where I'm like, okay, I need to go talk to somebody. You know, I need to get it back, I need to get back into therapy. I've been in and out of therapy, not as a um like I'm in and out of therapy, like I'm in and out, like, okay, I stopped going. I stopped. Like I'll literally be like, okay, I'm cool, I met my goals, but then I'm meeting a new challenge in my life where I'm like, okay, well, I need to go back because I need to know how to deal with this new thing that uh that's came on came onto my my plate. So that's why mental health is very important because it lead it can preserve our lives and we can live longer if we are able to manage our mental health for sure.

SPEAKER_01

And I think that's normal having your seasons where you're in therapy and your seasons where you're not that because I'm in between now. Like I just got out of therapy, so now I'm like, all right, I'm chilling right now, but I see new challenges. I'm like, all right, might they'll go ahead and go back, right? Absolutely. Um, but I think when you talk about like gang violence and stuff, um, you really dissect it. I think it's all like mental health. Well a lot of those what a lot of those kids feel abandoned. That's how they got into it. Um, stress. Um, what else would you think?

SPEAKER_00

I I think gang banging be meets a lot of basic needs. Um, it gives you a sense of security, it gives you a sense of comfort, it gives you a sense of belonging, especially for men, um, it gives you a level of respect, which I think for men, we we admire respect more than just love. So when folks they're like, okay, why is join a gang? Like it's not gonna lead anywhere. You can go to the well, if you think about survival techniques, usually when you're in a deficit, because we're all born in a relationship, a relationship deficit. If you find something at one entity that gives you all those things at one time, it's like, why not? Why wouldn't I not join again? Or why would I not hang out with this these certain people? They may not be doing the most godliest things, but it's meeting all of my basic needs, right? But it's I think it's coming from an unhealthy place. But when you're again, when you're in survival and you're in desperation and there's nowhere else to get it, why wouldn't you? All right, instinctively, you're gonna gravitate towards that.

SPEAKER_01

So I want you to elaborate a little bit on you. Say that we we are born into a deficit. Yeah, what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00

So there's a um a psychologist, and I forgot his name, I gotta uh go back and look. But we're all born into a relationship deficit, meaning like we're born into not having specific relationships. Those things are developed over time. So when we're born, you know, we're born with our eyes, our ears, you know. Um, if we're born healthy, we're born with all these things, but we're not born like in a relationship. Usually the first woman we learn to love is the mother. Um, our first image of uh having an interaction with a man is the father. You think about how impactful parents are to their children, and if those things are missing, then you're already in a deficit because you're depending on these folks to give something to you that you don't even know you need at the time.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But as you grow up and you grow older, you're like, you know what, I was missing this, I was missing that, or I didn't get this. So that's what I mean by in a relationship deficit. We're not born into having relationships, they're all developed for us over time.

SPEAKER_01

Makes sense, makes sense. I was wondering. Um, and because I think parent wounds is a lot stronger in black men. I may be wrong, that might be biased, but I just think that when you think about a lot of the trauma that we're carrying around, a lot of it stems from mom and dad or either or. Um, and so and you said in your own story that um as you're after your dad's like, I'm sorry for what I did, you know, that took a turn for your relationship. Do you think a lot of us are just waiting for an apology?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, man. I think we are, especially when it comes to parents, we are looking for like that apology. We're looking for that that, okay, I was wrong.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And I thank God for my dad for being able to recognize that. Um, but not everybody gets that. Yeah. Right. So not everybody's gonna have that moment. I think that's where you think about closure in a relationship or closure with somebody, it's usually like, okay, we have this one-off conversation, or it's like very Hollywood, it's very scripted. We think it's okay, I have a conversation with you, you have a conversation with me, and we go our way. Sometimes you don't have conversations. So when it comes to us wanting to have that conversation where we want that person to say sorry, we can't expect them to do that. Yeah, and that's hard because uh again, trauma is induced onto us, but then it's our responsibility to heal. It's not that person's responsibility to apologize, unfortunately. Should they? Yeah, absolutely, right? But you're not gonna get that all the time.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're not, right?

SPEAKER_00

So when you don't get that, it's uh really it takes the healing process to a different level where you have to forgive them for what they've done, or you have to try to figure out how you can move forward and not allow what they did to you impact you to in such a way where it's holding you back from your full potential.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so you really have to forgive for yourself though.

SPEAKER_00

It's it's a real selfish act, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so what about those? What let's say let's say I don't get the apology, um, and I'm struggling to just say, okay, I'm not gonna get it. So I'm trying to move on. Like what how what would you advise that person?

SPEAKER_00

Um you want so I got two, I got two sides. Um if I'm working with a client and they're asking how do I move forward if I'm not getting that apology, I would encourage them to understand what is it that they need from that person. Is it apology or is it something else? Because it can be many different things. So it's like really figuring out what do you really want from that person that you're not getting. If it is genuine apology, realistically, you have to accept the terms that you're not gonna get that. So that doesn't mean that you have to live in a space where, okay, I'm not gonna get that, so I'm gonna be stuck on that. That person's always gonna owe me that. It's more so accepting that reality and accepting not being okay with it and trying to move forward from that. And that takes a lot of work and it looks different for a lot of different people, right? Um, that's one side for me on a personal level, I understand who I serve, you know. Um I I I want to please God in the best way possible. So for me, I have to understand that God has an ultimate say. You know, God has a lot of promises in in his word, and I truly and truly believe it. So I can't take on that burden.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

I'll let I'll let God take on that burden and deal with it. Um, if I if I'm stuck in it, then it's not gonna allow me to move forward.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So I there's God can do so many different things within that person, and I may not get apology, but I understand like God will be working through that person in in God's own way. So I don't want to get in, I'm not gonna get in the way what God has for that person. And not saying a consequence or anything like that, like that person's gonna be condemned or anything like that, but there's something that God has to work through that person or has to show his light in that person in order for them to heal. So I can't sit here and try to control somebody else because I I can be doing so many other different things. Instead of me trying to convince somebody that they should apologize, I can focus on how can I heal from that.

SPEAKER_01

Right. That is the game changer. Absolutely. Oh man, um, hey, take a quick pause, real quick, but yeah, share this with somebody. Send this to some dude um that you you that you just know needs to watch this episode. Um, ask any questions below, like it, share it, all that, right? And so um back to the combo, man. And so you brought up God and you and you earlier you said it like your marriage is really rooted in God. So I want to go back because I I think faith is a big part of us standing, our foundation, right? When did you first find God?

SPEAKER_00

Uh when I first found God, that's an interesting question. That's a very interesting question. I always was like we grew up going to church. Um I think recently, bro, I ain't gonna hold you. I think it's recently gotten to a point where I'm like throughout my relationship, before we even got married, I'm just talking about like within the last couple years, I like I think I really truly found like who God is. And and I found her, but then I'm still learning. You know, I'm I'm I'm like, okay, I know who this who God is, I know who Jesus is, I know I'm I'm learning scripture, uh, but I'm always seeking. You know, I'm always seeking because I know where to go, but I'm always there's different again, different avenues that life takes you on when you're on this uh journey where I have to really put my faith in God. So it's tested too. It's testing. So I think too, your question, correct me if I'm wrong, is more of like when did I find God, but also when I found it, it's like how do I utilize God in my life?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, more so like when was that big moment where you was just like, all right, God, it's it's me and you, like we locking in. Because I I because a lot of people say, Oh, I grew up in church, yeah. But you didn't you can get dragged to church, you can get dragged anywhere, but that don't mean you're paying attention.

SPEAKER_00

Right, because the thing is too, and I've been I think this is more of a transparent moment, is that like I got baptized when I was in fourth grade, and I've been talking to my wife about like, dang, I thought I should get rebaptized for real.

SPEAKER_01

That's common, actually.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was what's crazy because I didn't know that was common like until recently. I was somebody else got baptized that I thought was baptized already, and um one of our close friends, and I was like, She got baptized yet? She's like, nah, like she got she did get baptized, but then it's a whole different meaning. I'm like, you know what? I think I need that moment for myself, right? You know, so I I know who God is, I know um I think it's been really tested just in my relationship, to be honest. I think you know, shout out to my wife. Uh she she's really been a real ground in my faith life. Like, she's been like a pure example of how God works and how to navigate and how to be living scripture, to be honest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, I I I crack girls with my wife because I say I married the church girl. Man, I didn't go to church as a kid. Oh, really? I did not. Okay. We went like Easter. Um, my grandfather was actually a deacon. Um, and then so my dad, we would go like every blue moon. Okay, it wasn't until one of my friends she would come get me. Like that was like late high school.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

That's when I kind of started going.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Um, but and I recently found out what last year in like May, my mom was like, the only reason why we didn't go to church is because I was drug to church my whole childhood and I didn't want to go anymore. Okay, okay. So that's like I'm learning, like, that's why we didn't go. That's right. Um, so I always laugh with my wife and I say, Man, I married the church girl because I didn't go to church. Right. And um I actually got baptized three years ago. Congrats. And was it three years? Two years ago, two years ago. Um, and I was going to do it myself. But then I opened my eyes and my wife was coming up too, and I'm like, You already baptized. And she was just like, Yeah, but I was a child and I couldn't make that decision for myself and didn't even really know what it really meant. So I'm doing it again. And she did it. And I was like, that was the first time I like I've heard people do it, but that was the first time I've seen somebody doing it. Right. So I'm like, it's pretty common.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, I need that for sure. Um, yeah, I for sure need that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. When are you playing on it? Well, let me not. That's not how business.

SPEAKER_00

I'm gonna invite you though. Okay, I'm gonna invite you for sure. I'm gonna text you about, hey, look, this is in the because our church they do it. I forgot how often they do it, but they they schedule you gotta do the class and uh I believe and all that good stuff. But yeah, what church do you go to? Higher dimension. Oh, me too.

unknown

What?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, since I'm Katie.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, you go to the KD campus? Oh, okay. Yeah, so we locked in.

SPEAKER_01

I've been here for three years. Really?

SPEAKER_00

Y'all KD campus be showing out though.

SPEAKER_01

What you mean?

SPEAKER_00

Y'all, okay, so side notes probably off the off the record. I mean, oh well. Okay, I was like, you can edit it out, but um nah we have the builders award, so it's like, are you are you do you serve?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I got an award.

SPEAKER_00

Were you sitting in the corner by the Christmas tree-ish?

SPEAKER_01

No, I was on the other side.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, because I know all right, so all right, so put case in point, um, when you guys got an award, y'all was going wild, going crazy for each other. But then the main campus, like, we you know, we clap and stuff like that. But when y'all got awards, y'all was like, Oh, yeah, y'all was on fire.

SPEAKER_01

There's a uh a running joke that it's not really a joke, it's actually kind of the truth. But they was like, once when you pull up the KD campus, you're gonna get hugs, you all get love. Yeah, and then it's like Southwest is just like normal. Yeah, and I I hear it from people who are mainly at Southwest, people come over. But that to case in point though, like I didn't go to church for a while, right? And it wasn't until I stepped out IRD, and I was like, and it was at the community center when I first started going.

SPEAKER_00

That's wild.

SPEAKER_01

And uh I was like, I was so rooted there, and I'm just like, okay. Okay, God, you got me in this season where I'm getting to know you more. And I can say he has elevated my life a lot. Okay. And it got to the point so that I was the builders award was coming up. And everyone like, Are you coming? And I was just like, I guess, yeah. Like, because me, I'm out, I'm in the house, dude. Like, I don't really care to go do all that. So they was everybody's like, You gotta come, you gotta come. I was like, all right. So I went and I was sitting there and I was eating, and then um Annie had come on.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

And she was doing the production for Katie. And I said, She's about to call my name, isn't she?

SPEAKER_00

That was you. You so you serve on the production team? Yep. Uh I do too. No, that's crazy. That is crazy. Hold on. Yeah, that's wild. That's wild. No, that is wild. Because my wife and I, we do I do like the camera. She does the um, she be yelling at the cameras, not yelling, but the um she by camera one, camera, like oh yeah, yeah, she does the um, she switches the cameras. So that's wow. We got we got we got tapping. I ain't been to the Katie campus though yet. My wife has, I haven't been yet.

SPEAKER_01

Come check her out.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I gotta check it out. Y'all be hyped. I'll be like, no, the builders award, I was like, who are these people? I thought they champions was real small. Y'all just got started. Real family, y'all enthusiasm is wild.

SPEAKER_01

It's small church, but it feels feels like family though. Okay, and that was the first I ever felt like that walk into a church. Yeah, because that was just like, you know what crazy how I got to church? God, funny. Um, because so one of the ways he talks to me, I I consider it parables. When you think about Jesus, he always talked in parables. Uh huh. And so God always has me watching movies. And one day I kept seeing pursuit of happiness like come up on the screen. I was like, why am I keep seeing this? And at that time, I was kind of in that situation. So I started watching it, and it got to the part where he was in church and he got that hope hit him. I just started crying. And I walked out the room, I said, We gotta go to church. My wife was like, huh? She was like, We've been together for years, and you have never said that. And I was just like, something's just pulling me to go. And um, we kept hearing HD, and that's when I pulled up to it. Yeah, the community center and been locked in ever since.

SPEAKER_00

Uh Pastor J be doing his thing. Shout out to Pastor Jay. Absolutely. Shout out to Pastor J, man. Lady Jay, yeah, they do it, they're doing it. You going to the um the um answer conference?

SPEAKER_01

No, no, I have another conference I'm going to. Oh, okay, okay. That's another thing, fellas. Get out, go to conferences. Yeah, go to conferences, man. Have you been to what's some of the best ones you've been to?

SPEAKER_00

So they had a financial uh they had a one was a financial one um a couple years ago where uh Anthony O'Neill came out.

SPEAKER_01

I was there too.

SPEAKER_00

You was there? Okay, yeah. So Anthony O'Neill came out. That was cool. I'm surprised I ain't seen you around. Okay. Um, Anthony O'Neill came out, that was cool. Um, we did the answer conference one year. The last year we didn't go because I was working in Los Angeles at the time, and I was out we was out there for like eight months. So we couldn't, we couldn't make it to to come back. Um I think those are the two ones one going. We actually decided yesterday we're gonna go because that was the same weekend as the LA Marathon. And um, we decided like, yeah, we probably gotta because we got some other stuff going on, so yeah, we was yeah, we're gonna be we're gonna go this year for sure. I think those are the top two ones, but what off for you?

SPEAKER_01

Um, so I went to next level speakers conference. Next level. That was my first conference. Um, I got that's where I got baptized too. Yeah, it was kind of it was crazy. Uh but um that one and the answering conference was a dope one. So I'm I'm just starting my conference journey okay of just going to different ones. That's why I'm not going this year because I was like, I want to hit it, I want to switch it up.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, yeah, yeah. Of course, of course.

SPEAKER_01

And so those are the only ones you've been to?

SPEAKER_00

Um at HD, yeah. And honestly, I think going to church for real, for real, it's been since I've been out here in Houston. Like I would go, you know, shout out to one LA church um in Los Angeles. I think at that time, uh Tory Roberts. Um uh pastor, sorry, Pastor Torre. He's um uh Sarah Jake's husband.

SPEAKER_02

No, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, he used he um he still I guess ministers over there, but he's in Dallas. So I would we would go over there, but I wouldn't I wasn't like tapped in. I'll go like I remember I went when um that's when I was like really pro-black for real. I went over there uh the the weekend uh Trump got elected, and I was so pissed, and I was like, nah, I gotta go to church. I was so hot, but I was like that type, like I like if I'm going through something, I'll go to church. But it wasn't to serve, it was more selfish, like because you know, I think how a lot of people look at God is like how I used to look at it is like I'm looking for a genie, not a God. You know, I want somebody to come rescue me or fix my problems or I'll I'll or grant my wishes. You feel what I'm saying? So like when I would go to church, it was like more because I was going through something, it wasn't like a consistent like now it's crazy because every time I used to go to church, I like start crying because I'm going through something. And I'll be like, man, like but now I can go to church and I mean I'll have my moments um here and there, but it's not all the time because I, you know, now now I'm in the Bible study group, now I'm in the Kinect group, now I um I go to church and I, you know, we serve. So it's not I'm just going there, but I genuinely enjoy going to higher D because it's it's just an it's just a great experience.

SPEAKER_01

For sure. It's you know, as black men, we we like we've been bred. I don't think I say bred, we've been taught, um, we've been taught to go into isolation when things are wrong. But we then like you said, getting into groups, getting into connect groups, and getting rooted somewhere. Absolutely. Um that's that's the key. Yeah. Because if you're by yourself, you're just gonna lose your mind.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Like male loneliness is on the on the high level.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_00

High, high level. Yeah, loneliness for men is like was we because we feel like we're going through a lot of things by ourselves. Um I'll even say with church, I mean, church reflection is so is somewhat a reflection of what goes on in the real world, but there's not a lot of spaces for men. Um, I noticed with my wife and other women, like they'll corral around each other if there's something going on. Like they'll they'll have book clubs, they'll have all types of, oh, we just gonna go for a walk, or oh, we ain't seen each other in a long time, let's go to dinner, you know. And for us men, we connect on a different level, right? So we connect more on like respect, or we may connect over sports, or you know, we we may connect over like a rivalry of some sort. Um, but we don't always have those moments where we're like corralling and and having those type of consistent relationships. So I think that's very important to know because when we talk about us feeling as if we're by ourselves all the time, it's because we don't have communities we can go to. I just recently had to find my own community, and it's more it's not all men, but I had just had to recently find my own community because I really felt lonely at some times. You know, I'm like, dang, I don't know if anybody else understands me. I don't know if anybody else is going through X, Y, and Z. I actually had to um on the side note, I had to talk to uh T, um Pastor Jay's son. I just hit him on the side uh a couple weeks ago, and I was like, hey man, like I'm struggling with this husband thing. Like, you know, like what's going on? Like, I didn't know it was gonna be this hard. Um, I know marriage was tough, but like you're literally, I'm literally sitting in depression right now. And I think it was amazing just talking to him and listening to his wisdom. I know he got married very young, he got four kids. I think he's 30 now, so you know, he grew off to a great start, but he you know, he was sharing some of his experiences and things that nature, which helped me right, and I think that's the part of understanding, even when you go through a test, it's a testimony at some point in time. So it hit him going through that allowed me to have some relief. All right, you know, and he was able to share some resources and share like how counseling helped him and his wife and him navigating things, and I think he just the other day, I think celebrated, and don't quote me like I think seven to eight years being married or something, something like that.

SPEAKER_01

So their anniversary is in April because it's a day before mine.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, is it? Okay, okay. Um, well, don't that's what I say, don't quote me. But um, but yeah, man, uh it's I think that's that's super important. And I think for me, having just to get out of my way and be able just to reach out for help. And it was like, I think we talked for like maybe 45 minutes, maybe I don't think it was a whole hour, but even just that short moment relieved me from like these months I've been feeling this tension, you know. And he was able to give me some resources, some books, and things of that nature to that's help him.

SPEAKER_01

And that's why it's important to talk because somebody, the problem that you are facing right now, somebody already went through it. Yeah, so they've already sought out the answer, they already got the answer from somebody else, or they read it. Um, and because like even now, I'm in uh like husband treatment, it changes because one minute everything's fine, and the next minute it's not, and it's just like you have you have to be adaptable to really be an efficient husband, and you have to pay attention to everything, especially when you have kids. Like you have to pay attention to your wife, how she feels, um, and try not to avoid those conversations because oh, I don't want her to feel bad. It's like, no, she gotta take a blow sometimes, too, right? A thousand percent. And even with the kids, it's like, all right, are y'all listening? Like my kids, I'll look at them, I'm like, y'all not listening. But then it'd be like weeks later, they'll say something. I'm like, oh, you were listening. Okay, cool. But it's like I had to remind myself that that I can't it can't just be about me, right? The intentional time of going to a marriage conference or the intentional time of just having those conversations. It in like now, or even with each other as men, but like now I'm in a season where my wife just lost her uncle. Oh, and it's like the uncle that was like her dad. And so I'm like in this weird space of like, all right, I want to be supportive husband and be there, which I am, but I'm like, okay, I feel like I could be doing more. Like, what am I supposed to be doing in this in this season? And it's I'm starting to get answers because I am reaching out to men and just having those conversations and be like, oh, well, just be present, like just be there, just you know, and so that goes to the point of brotherhood, it goes to the point of um just getting mentorship coaches or whatever, you know. Um, how long have you been in Houston?

SPEAKER_00

Uh, I think about three years now, yeah. About three years now as of December like eighth or sixth. Okay, that's what we call you got got that one-way flight, man.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah. So, how how has your journey been in a new place? Because sometimes that is what you may need to get out of your environment and move somewhere.

SPEAKER_00

I think it was very healing on both sides. Um, I think we had to, you know, we had to kind of remember we are initially when we moved to Houston, we had to remember that we live in Houston now, we're not visitors. So like we was outside, I ain't gonna hold you. Like, nah, we was going to all the like because we live, we look like right now we live close to the galleria, everything's central. So you go to midtown, you can go here, you go there, all the club staurants and all that stuff. And you know, I had partners out here, frat brothers. So it was it was a time, like I'm you know, going all Alameda, up and down, all that stuff, you know what I mean? So I had we had to kind of narrow it in where I'm like, okay, we live here now. I think at that time she was like the heaviest and unhealthiest she ever been. Like I was unhealthy here, bro. Bro, I was up to like 342. You gain weight, man. I was like 342 pounds. I was like, that's crazy. Granted, I still got a lot of work to do, but I was like, I ain't never seen no 340, 330, nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know what I mean? I'm like, the plates are here, they're bigger. Shh, they're every it's Texas, everything's bigger in Texas, man. The drinks, I'm going, I'm not, I don't want to name drop any spots, but these drinks be dang.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so like drinking.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, literally, like me and my wife now on like a wine tip. Like, we'll go to like you know, certain wine places and stuff. We're not, you know, because drunkenness is you know a sin and things of that nature. Um, gluttony's a sin too. So we're trying to really dial back. Um, but to to answer you more of your question, um, I love Houston. I most definitely I think it's a great place to really trying to find yourself and navigate the world. Um, I know there's a lot of other places when we was initially moving, because I knew I wanted to move out of California at some point in time. Um, it wasn't uh it wasn't what California was um when I was growing up, you know. It's it's that's how I felt about here. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty sure because I think time changes things, culture changes things. I know Houston now is a very I mean evidence of it is a very transplant um city. Yeah, yeah. And and the crazy thing is California is the same way too. Um, you have a lot of people that aren't born and raised in California, but people will come to California because of the culture and things of that nature. So it wasn't to be on the scene, yeah, yeah. You know, people have a dream of being an actor or whatever it is, and music. That's a place to be.

SPEAKER_01

Um I actually had a boxing coach who left for California like some years ago, like two years ago. Oh, yeah. He was like, Yeah, I'm moving. I was like, Oh, when you move, he's like at the end of the month. I was like, where are you going? He was like, I'm going to California to be an actor. I was like, Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's the that's a place to be. Um, but yeah, it I I love Houston. I like the pace. I like I like it's a little bit slower. Um, like there's nobody's, I mean, I would say people's inner rush if you drive in the freeways, but you know, for here it's not, it's not a it's it's a big like you hustle, you gotta get your bread and things that nature, but hustle, hustle culture isn't like the premise of Houston culture. It's more of hospitality, it's more connection with people, it's like conversation. Hey, come over my house, or you know, if you need something, let me know. So I think those are the things that I really enjoy with Houston because again, I even me growing up, I grew up on the deck, I grew up on like some acres of land, not acres, I say I think it's like acre and a half or so, almost two acres of land. So, like we I was out the way, I wasn't a big city person anyway. So going moving to the LA area was uh transition for me after high school. So yeah, it most definitely, most definitely is uh it's cool. It's I think it's more my speed. Like, if you need to go, that's why I was like, where the woods at? I was like, I'm trying to go up over there and see what's it's a marriage too I use my bomb boy points. Cool. Oh, yeah. Um, yeah, so like even going out the way, like even looking at trying to move, I'm trying to move out the way, you know, and I come to the city where I need to come to the city, but that's me.

SPEAKER_01

I want 10 acres.

SPEAKER_00

That's what I'm the land, man. The land is, you know, the land, Houston got, you know, Houston got some nice. I mean, not the city, but the outside surrounding the outskirts, yeah. Between here and Dallas, you're gonna find some for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely. So, how has like being here helped your healing journey? Like, how are you finding community here?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I mean, I think for my healing journey, it just helped me really hyper focus on my relationship. Okay, I think it really helped me just not have any distractions. That's important and it was very uncomfortable. Granted, I did have some people that I knew out here already, um, but it's been a blessing because people get to know you for who you've become or becoming and not judging you from your past. You know, people see me, even there's a lot of people that know me from high school. There's a lot of people that know me from college. And I'm not to some extent, you know, the people that I'm cool with, they understand, like, okay, we all have grown, we're not doing the same things anymore. But you'll be surprised there's a lot of people that will connect to you based on what you can do for them and what you guys are doing together. So once you stop doing those things, like for me, I stopped smoking weed. So I started realizing like, dang, a lot of my relationships I had with people was because I was smoking weed. Yep, you know what I mean? So like when you're hanging out, it's like, okay, where the bud at? You know what I mean? Like and I just I didn't think about it because I'm smoking, I'm smoking all the time. So I don't realize that oh, we bonded over over weed. You know, we was talking about we was doing other things, but we were always included. Yeah, it was always included. So like when I'm not doing that, it's like, okay, well, all right, hit me up when you, you know, hit me up another time, or hit me up when you uh well it's linked next weekend. It's like, nah, I'm not smoking no more. Okay, cool. You never hear of them again. Nah, not really. But you'll see the thing is cool, the thing is crazy, like you'll see them, um, but then they're smoking, right? So it's like, okay, I'm not, I can't really not try to be around, I'm not trying to get a little second high, I'm trying to get no contact or nothing.

SPEAKER_01

Could one hit take you back? Take you back.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, one, yeah, and I'm I'm I'm glad of my journey with weed right now because we have me in Choco. I I used to grow it, sell it, and smoke it. Oh, so yeah, it's it you talk about a deity.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I didn't well I did sell that at one point. I I did all that.

SPEAKER_00

Everybody, I don't say everybody, but yeah, it's not people, it's not uncommon.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's not uncommon. It's not uncommon trying to make a little extra money, especially when you exactly the money started, you'd be like, I can go make a quick buck. Yeah, I was selling for a while and it hit me. I was like, I have a daughter, bro. Like, you know, yeah, like I can't do this, and I was just stopped, I let it go. Yeah, um, but and when I had that realization too, I was actually at the but I was towards the middle of my therapy. Uh, and I told my therapist about it, and he was like, It's amazing how we only do things because of the people we're attached to, or we or we're around, but we only do things because of the people we're around, and so we stopped hanging with them, we stopped doing it as much. I was smoking like five, six bucks a day. Now, none.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's it's it's yeah, and uh it's crazy because I when I think about like my relationship with marijuana, I really had to think about why why was I smoking so much? Uh I remember going back to my injury. I remember that's when I really started smoking when I numb dinner, yeah, to numb the pain of like my leg, but then also kind of numb that emotional pain of not being able to play college ball, you know. So, like, and I it did it that thing it crazy because 10 years later, that's when it resonated with me. It's like, okay, well, I mean maybe when I'm not smoking, things are coming up. And then going into my 30s, when I stopped smoking weed, a lot of emotions came. Like, I started noticing, I started crying a lot more when I stopped smoking weed because weed used to numb me so much to the point where I was able to move through life, but the marijuana was helping me suppress those true emotions. And I know people have their own. Again, I used to like, oh, it's just a planner, this and that, you know, the whole debate around marijuana. But you have to really think about if you really don't need it, why are you doing it? Right, right. But I had to really address a lot of different demons um with that and other a lot of other things that I stopped that I stopped doing for sure.

SPEAKER_01

So it's amazing what comes up when you start to allow yourself to feel no emotions. You'd be like, dang, I've been holding on to this for this long.

SPEAKER_00

I'm talking about nightmares, bro.

SPEAKER_01

Nightmares?

SPEAKER_00

I'm talking about night, man, nightmares, flashbacks, uh like traumatic events, all types of stuff. I'm like, what? What is all this coming from? Like, what's going on? Yeah, it's a it was a lot, bro. And but I had to really you know go through my own healing journey, my own therapy, um, talk to God about it. And yeah, ever since I'm like, you know, stuff does still come up here and there, but I'm able to manage it because I understand what it is. No, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01

Gotta put a name to it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Once you now go back to the Bible, like the Genesis, when uh God gave told Adam to name all the animals. I think I say that for the same thing if I got issues, put a name on it, right? Until it gives you dominion over it. You can actually say this is what it is, and I don't want this anymore. Um, and I think that's helped me a lot. Yeah, and helped me. I don't know about you, sure.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. No, you gotta name it. You gotta name it. So, oh, is that is that depression? I think it is depression, or is that trauma? I think that is trauma. Oh, I'm having I'm sweating at night. What's that? Okay, I had a bad dream of something. It's like, okay, well, now that I know what it is, I can start to address it. But we don't really uh have that opportunity to name what it is, so we can't really deal with it. Like we have to believe that it's existing in order for us to actually be able to cope with it because you can't cope with something that doesn't exist. Again, you can't heal what's not being revealed until it's revealed. That's when you can start to do the work.

SPEAKER_01

Man, and I definitely want to thank you, brother, for coming on. Yeah, it's been a great conversation. I'm surprised we haven't linked up before. Yeah, that's what I'm like.

SPEAKER_00

We got so much in common, man. See, that's the thing with our community.

SPEAKER_01

Like, yeah, you never know he's gonna meet you. You never know. You just have to be open to it. But we locked in for sure. Oh, absolutely, man. Um, thank you guys for tuning in. Uh, like, share, subscribe, comment, follow him. Um, what is your social media?

SPEAKER_00

Um, Terrence, T-E-R-R-E-N-C-E-O, Stuart, S-T-E-W-A-R-T, TikTok, YouTube, all that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I I brought a therapist on. So y'all have no reason. No reason, no reason not to reach out to at least have a conversation. Absolutely. Um, to figure out if he be if he can help you, if y'all the right fit. Um, but remember, fellas, we got to pour into ourselves first and foremost, or we're gonna bleed on the ones that are around us. So continue to love yourself, continue to grow, continue to be rooted in faith, yourself, your family. Until next time, we'll see you.