Obedience, Imposter Syndrome, and Finding Your Purpose with Quentin R Jiles

Quentin R Jiles is a therapist, professor, podcaster, and former contestant on Peacock's hit show "The Traitors." His journey from imposter syndrome in grad school to becoming a trusted therapist for men and couples is a testament to the power of representation, obedience, and learning from your mistakes — even when the whole world is watching.

WE EXPLORE:

Why Quentin walked away from therapy after grad school and what brought him back. The heartbreaking moment he realized Black children struggle to name what's good about themselves. How imposter syndrome shows up in predominantly white spaces and why representation matters. Why every therapist needs a therapist (and every man needs one too). What it's like being a newlywed, new parent, and new business owner all at once. The life lessons learned from ignoring God's voice on national television and losing $125,000. Why learning your parents' story is essential to understanding your own patterns. How couples therapy can save relationships on the verge of fracture.

✊🏾 THE TAKEAWAY:

Obedience is better than sacrifice. When God speaks, listen, even when it doesn't make sense, even when it's uncomfortable, even when you think you know better. And if you're a man who thinks therapy "isn't for you," Quentin's story is proof that the right therapist can help you see what you can't see on your own.

👑 Ready to go deeper? Join our free community

 KEY TOPICS DISCUSSED

• Imposter syndrome in predominantly white spaces

• Why Black children struggle with self-worth and positive self-identification

• The importance of representation in therapy and healing

• Why every man needs a therapist (and how to find one)

• Couples therapy: what it is and why it works

• Learning your parents' story to understand your own patterns

• Marriage, fatherhood, and navigating new identities

• Quinton's experience on Peacock's "The Traitors"

• The cost of disobedience: ignoring God's voice

• Life lessons from being wrong on national television

• Obedience vs. sacrifice: trusting divine guidance

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:05

I just want to thank you guys for watching this video. I am Adam Wilson, the host of the Inner King Initiative podcast. I had a great conversation with Quentin Giles, and we talked about his upbringing, his time on traders, and him being a therapist. Right. So I do have a community that I just launched called the Inner King Initiative Community. It's a community where we as brothers can come together, pour into each other, talk about mental health, talk about wellness. If you want more from me, the link will be in the description below. Welcome to the Inner King Initiative Podcast. I'm your host, Adam Wilson, and this is a space where we as black men, we come in, you know, we let down our weight, we become human, because instead of human uh doings, we're human beings, right? We're community, we're growing, right? And so today is no different. I have a uh guest today. He's a therapist who works with men and couples because man, if you're married, you know you need it, right? No matter, no matter what you say. Um, but Quentin Giles, how are you doing today, brother?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

I'm doing quite well. Thank you for having me down here at the at the Inner King Initiative. Yeah. I feel kingly. I've never heard it put like that. I'm gonna give that one. I'm gonna put that right up here.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Well, take it, take it. Everything I throw today is free. Yeah, y'all see that, right? That love right there. But man, tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you get into therapy?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, well, my name is Quentin R. Giles. I'm a therapist, professor, podcaster, and content creator. And honestly, the way I got into therapy is I always wanted to be a therapist. Really? Yeah, I did. I always wanted to be a well, I always wanted to be a therapist and I always want to be a lawyer. Okay. So we can talk about the lawyer's uh uh situation a little later, but oh, definitely want to definitely want to be a therapist. Uh, my my background, my undergrad is in social work, my master's degree is in social work. And um, my journey actually stopped in 2014. I went to a predominantly white graduate school, and our grad program was focused on learning how to be a therapist. And I assumed so much imposter syndrome because I was like one of three blacks that were there, and I just felt like I wasn't getting it like the other students were getting it. And that matters. It it does matter. It does matter who you see and who's around you. And then even in like some of the video uh videos that we were learning from, I would see like all white men or white women, right? And so I walked away from that schooling thinking that this was not for me. So I did not even pursue it at that point. Okay. Jump eight to ten years later, I ended up getting a job at a at a health insurance uh company and we had to ask this assessment. Uh, it was with children. We had to ask this assessment or this question at the end of the assessment of like, you know, tell me something that's good about yourself. And because they're children, I was there with their parents as well. So we would ask the parents, you know, tell me something good about the child. I would bet you the money in my wallet. If we walked out here and I and we spoke to white children, Hispanic children, other children, black children, everybody else was gonna have an easier time telling me something good about them, and their parent was too. And it was like clockwork. Every black home I walked into, either there was a struggle with them identifying something good about themselves, or they defaulted something good that they do, meaning, oh, he plays this sport well, or oh, she cheers well. But I that that wasn't the question. The question is not what you do well, tell me something good about them. And I remember this one kid, I don't even know why, it wasn't even a really traumatic situation. But I went into this one home and asked the same question like I normally do. I'm on the job about a year and a half at this point, and he couldn't answer it, and mom couldn't answer it, and I don't know why it hit me the way it hit me, but I walked out of the door, and as soon as I closed their front door, like I almost kind of like buckled, and it was just like, man, this boy needs a therapist. And then the thought was like, you should be his therapist. And then the next thought was like, Why aren't you a therapist?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Like, yeah, I listen to that voice sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

You know what I'm saying? Thank you, Holy Spirit. Why aren't you the therapist? Like, what it and it kind of just all came back to me, like, you went to school to do this thing. Why are you not that? And so I had to go down this thought process journey of trying to figure out why am I not doing the thing that I said I always wanted to do, that I went and got the student loans for. Why am I not doing that? And I realized that I had taken on this false idea of what it meant to be a therapist because of what I saw in front of me, instead of just learning the skills and applying them in the way in which I understand and in the context of which I live. So that's my long story of how I got here.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

So I I can tell in your story there's times where you kind of doubt it yourself. You say impossible, right? 100%. And so what is something about your healing journey that you just haven't shared about that part of your life?

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Well, I don't know if it's if if if I haven't shared it, but I will say that it is ever ongoing. It is not for me personally. Now, now some of y'all may arrive, but I I have not arrived. No, I have not arrived. I'm still going. I'm still going. Okay. I'm I'm a therapist who has a therapist. Hello, somebody. Get you one. You gotta have one. So it's for me, it is it is ongoing. I am I'm ever evolving, and I don't mean that in a very mystic, like everyday type of way, but you know, the way in which my life looks today is not the way it looked 10 years ago when I had that imposter syndrome. Okay. I'm married now, I have a child now. Okay, so those are two new uh identities that I I'm still learning and growing like every day. And I we we I consider myself uh the wife and I consider ourselves parents as long as we've been married because we got pregnant on our honeymoon. Okay. So, and that that that wasn't uh uh planned, by the way. From no, that was never planned. You know, but okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yahtzee. I don't want to be vulgar. I will tell you what my mama said, but it was vulgar. Uh but we we were pregnant, you know, within our first month of being married. Okay. We've been married for four years now. My kid is three. So I've never been married, the wife's never been married. So we are still trying to figure each other out. Mind you, we had just met, literally, we met, dated, married in one year, then got pregnant on our honeymoon.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Dang.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Hello?

SPEAKER_01 6:10

That's fast.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

So who I am today, who I am today, well, I I said it really wasn't that fast to us, but I see outside looking in. Outside. Sure, right? But who I am today is not who I was, you know, just five years ago. So I'm still, you know, learning and growing how to be a husband. I'm still learning and growing how to be a father to a three-year-old who has many, many opinions. Many. I got a four-year-old who got a lot of them too. Many opinions, okay? So my healing journey is ever ongoing. I'm still overcoming, you know, trying to be a present father when I was a person who was not fathered, right? So I'm an unfathered father.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

That's a whole thing I have to, you know, consistently unpacked. Right. Making sure I am, you know, not overcompensating and or retreating because that's my experience. So I think it, I think my healing journey is just, it is always ongoing. And I think that I am blessed enough to have people in my life uh that I trust that I have created space for them to speak into the deficiency, for them to speak into, you know, what we would consider good, and for them to speak into the potential that they see that I'm not even tapping into. Right. So that that creates this ongoing movement of trajectory. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

But let's go back a little bit. Yeah, let's talk about being father, not being fathered, right? Unfathered. How was your childhood?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Uh what you want me to do? Rated from one to ten? Um, tell us about it. Well, you know, my childhood was interesting. I think it was, I think, generally speaking, I had a relatively okay childhood. Okay. So my mom was a single parent. I'm the oldest for my mother. And um, you know, went to school. I I was in some activities, not all the activities, but went to school, you know, had friends, all the things, right? Went through my fair share of bullying. Uh, but it was it was normal in that sense. I will say that I think I had a pivotal moment that a lot of people encounter, which is some of the work that I do in therapy, particularly with men that sit across from me, is that I was one that had an early childhood sexual experience. Um, and it was with another child. And so that can be confusing for a child, right? Like if I'm nine and you're 12, I wouldn't really say, for the longest time, I wouldn't say that, you know, I was sexually abused. Because in my mind, we were both children. Right. As I have become an adult and then a therapist, and then you know, hindsight is always 20-20. And looking back on it, it's like, oh no, actually, that was that was molestation. You were nine, you didn't know what was going on. Right. Right? It wasn't violent, it wasn't harsh in the way in which we think of like some sexual assaults, but this 12-year-old had a higher level of understanding and capacity than you did at nine. And take advantage of it. And so I'm sorry, and take advantage of it. Sure, and or acting out something that they themselves have been exposed to. We I don't, I don't know the other side of the other story, right? Uh, but child-on-child molestation as I begin to really unpack and learn about it actually happens more frequently than we talk about. And that could be very well because people, you know, like me, rationalize it because it it would, it would maybe the conversation in my own head would have been different if I was nine and they were 24. Right. Right. Or I was nine and they were 50. Well, I was nine, they was 12.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I just figured it was, you know, this early childhood experience, but I do see how that moment, you know, has played a role in the way in which I developed um in engaging with people sexually, like becoming, you know, very hypersexual uh as a teenager and then even into a young adult and having to kind of like work through all of what that meant. Was I actually really ready to engage in these things? Or was I too just acting out something that happened and just continue to replicate it at a time where I'm developing and hormones are booming and you know, all the things, right? So I say the childhood was normal per se, but then I have this, you know, this very not unique, just not spoken about experience, particularly with the child on child molestation, that really did shape a lot of what I did and um and and how I behaved.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

You know, you don't really think about that being a um common thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Right, but it is.

SPEAKER_01 10:32

And it but it's crazy, it's like, okay, what else is that common that's happening? Yeah, but it's also like you have to really watch your kids. Yes, indeed. Protect them. Yes, indeed. Um in my neighborhood, we see kids going everywhere, and I'm just like, where are your parents? And it's not us. No, I know it ain't my baby in the house. Exactly. Yeah, um, so how was your relationship with your mother and with your father?

SPEAKER_00 10:54

So my relationship with my mom uh wasn't the best growing up. Like we're we're we're a lot alike. So when I talk about my mom, I also have to talk about my grandmother, her mother. Because really, my grandmother, who has since passed, was my second parent. Okay, she was the dad, quote unquote. So I'm I'm really a whole lot like my grandmother and my mother. And so my mother and I, we would clash a lot. We would clash a lot, we didn't have the best relationship. Um uh learning more about her story has put a lot of things into context for me and my understanding. It doesn't change the impact or the hurt that I suffered through, you know, what I would consider her emotional neglect as I was growing up. But it does make sense now that I know what her story is as she was growing up. She used to tell me all the time when I was a kid, the grandmother that I have is not the mother that she had.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Ooh, I say that all the time.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

Okay, listen, because my grandma was great. Right. What I was good. Like, and me and my grandmother, we used to argue, but it was like it wasn't, it wasn't for real, for real argue. We just, I was acting like an old person. We would just go back and forth, but like really playfully. But my mom, we used to, we used to go at it. Um so you know, learning her story was was pretty pretty helpful. But I mean, as a child, you don't understand that.

SPEAKER_01 12:12

No, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

I don't I don't understand attachment theory and and trauma, and all I know is I'm a kid who feels like his mom isn't really there, and his daddy surely is not there. So it it was it was trying. I think we had our fair share of arguments. We, you know, I did I run away or did she kick me out? I think I ran away. I think I ran away one time. I can't remember. I either ran away, I think I came back, and then she kicked me. No, no, no. Nope. She kicked me out. That's what it was. She kicked me out. I think I was 16 and I left, and my grandmother made her take me back. I think I left for like a day. My grandmother made her take me back. My grandmother picked me up from wherever I was, brought me back to the house. I think I stayed there for 10 minutes and I left again. I left. So I like got kicked out and ran away within 48 hours. Yeah. What made you leave? I just didn't want to be there. There was there was some freedom in like, which is crazy because I didn't know where I was going. Right. But there was some freedom in like getting kicked out, feeling like, okay, well, I ain't got to deal with her no more. I don't have to deal with her rules. You know, you know old black mamas, my house, my rules. Oh, yeah. I don't have to deal with that. So I was just out in the world like for 24 hours, right? I did end up going to a friend's house, so it wasn't like I was sleeping outside, but living your best day. I was living my best day. My at least 48 hours. My best 48 hours, right? But eventually, I did have to go home because I was like, okay, this climbing up in my friend's room window on the second floor, because they mama don't know I'm here. It was it was becoming too much. So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's it was it was a time for sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

You're going through all these things as you're a kid, right? Um, where did you see it affecting you in like your adult life? Because sometimes, well, a lot of times we especially we as men, we talked about it earlier, we don't like to talk, right? We don't want to say anything, we don't want to look weak. But a lot of them are dealing with right, a lot of men are dealing with like childhood trauma and not realizing that that trauma is still affecting them. So all you went through, how did you see it affect you in your adult life? Hyperindependence.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

So my father was not there. Um, my dad was uh, and I will answer your question, but I think it's important to lay context because I don't want to make it seem like my mom was the end-all be-all of you know how I ultimately showed up in the world. Um but my dad, he lived down the street. Um, but from what I was told, my mother restricted access from him from him, excuse me, for a time because when I was young, like one, maybe two, one of my mother's friends saw my father have me on the corner with him. And he well, you know what they was doing on the corner. They was making uh transactions. Okay, understand. So my mother's friend saw it. My mom came and got me and restricted access. And subsequently, he went to jail after that. Now, um, I will say this that wasn't always his life. He was a high high school football star on his way to uh the league, he went to Texas Christian University, got a scholarship, all the things, but had an injury that took him out of the game.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

And learning his story too. So I just gotta put this out there because it's I think it's important for us that have endured imperfect parents to know that they have a story as well. They do. Thinking about the time in which he grew up in being a football star, they never made him do anything but play. It's not like today, well, you need to pass to play. Now it was like, hey, pass him so he can play. Yep. So he didn't have a particular set of functioning or deductive reasoning outside of playing football. So when he gets to college and has the injury that takes him out, they subsequently have me. Right. This is a person who thought they was on their way to the league, dreams are crushed, has no skill set to fall back on because you've been passed through just because you need to play the game, but now you can't even play the game.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

Okay, so now we turn to street transactions and such. So yeah, nowhere. I think context is important.

SPEAKER_01 16:07

Yeah, you know, it is important because it shows that like one, you shouldn't just beat sports into your kids. A thousand people, especially as black boys. It was like, I'll play football, go play baseball, go play basketball. But it's like education still has to be first because you have to learn something because your body can break at that point. So that context was needed. Thank you for giving that.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah. So he's down the street. You know, my mom restricts access, so he's not there, goes to jail, comes back out, but it's still not very much in my life. Like he'll pick me up, but I'm like at his mother's house with my cousins. So I would go to my dad's house, but he wasn't there. Right. You know what I'm saying? Um, so you know, I grew up learning from having an absent father and an emotionally absent mother, that I have to do it. I'm I I am all I got. I am the one that has to figure it out. And I did that, and I think that it worked. What one of the things that I tell my clients a lot is some of our survival skills, they work for a time, but then you get to a space where it no longer works. So when I look at, you know, when I go to college and then when I go to grad school, even though I took a little detour from the therapy and then all the subsequent years, I have operated on I am the one that has to get it done. I am going to do it because nobody else is going to do it, and that has been my driving factor. And it has proven to be very successful. Right. Up until I got married. That's what everything changes. Up until I got married. Up until I had a kid, those survival mechanisms that yielded a good fruit now are doing great damage to a relationship that I actually want and care about. So it shows up, but you got to learn some new stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Yeah, I've seen that even in my life. I had to let go of a lot because I was bleeding onto the family. I'm sure you can relate to that. Oh, that's crazy. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Father not around. No. Uh well, down the street. Down the street. Mom emotionally unavailable. We kind of we sound similar. Okay. What's up, twin? Right. My dad was there, but uh he was that dad who was always at work, present but not present. That's what I call it. Yeah. Um, and then just as harmful. Just as harmful, just as harmful. And sometimes even two parent households are harmful, though. Thousand percent. But people think though, I used to think it too, because you know, everything I saw. Yeah, they think people who came from two parent househomes were like, God's crumb de la crumb the best of the best.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Not that they hate each other, or not if they're still not taking care of you, not if they're not, you know, cultivating a space where you can be as a child, affirmed, seen, lifted up, taught. Right, you know, a lot of parents, I'm I'm actually doing a workshop in a couple months for people who had emotionally unavailable parents, because what they didn't realize and what we don't realize sometimes is that like we teach children everything.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

Intentionally and unintentionally. Because they watch everything. They're watching everything. I'm always got eyes on me. If I tell my kid, hey, don't steal, that's an intentional lesson, right? We don't steal, we pay for what we want. If we can't get it, we just can't get it. Right. But if she comes home every day and wants me to, I mean, incessantly, you know, you got a young one, always talk, which I love, but then it's like, please give me a moment. Please. But always, daddy, we did this, daddy, we did. And if she comes home every day and I'm either in this phone or I'm on my computer, or I'm not really listening, I am in unintentionally teaching her that one, maybe she doesn't matter. Right. Two, her voice doesn't matter, her experience of the day doesn't matter. Now I would never say, like, I am going to teach you that you don't matter. Right. But I could unintentionally do it by the way in which I show up.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

That is true. So and it's a hard balance because it's like, I gotta take care of this, but you're very much important. Yes, yes. It's it's all ever growing. Ever growing. It is ever growing. I do want to go back because it is important for us to learn our parents' story. I think so. I learned a lot about my parents just by asking questions. And I was like, okay, now this makes sense in this part of my life. Um, but it's just that that self-reflection and just that empathy. Because right, you have that empathy for yourself, but you also have to figure out, okay, what happened to me. Yeah. Um, we all expect expected like these perfect parents, but as kids, like you said, we didn't understand that. Um, and so it's good for you to actually have gotten that, gotten that from them. And it helps you develop, it helped you heal home.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

It it's I I I don't think it it doesn't change the impact. So that's what I want to be clear on. Like, it does help me understand. Okay. Um it does help me understand and realize that some of the things that I experienced from them weren't intentional. Okay. It wasn't intent, and I'm very big on intent versus impact. I still think you're responsible for both, right? Yeah. So it I intended, you know, to show up here today. Right. And the impact, hopefully, y'all get something out of it. I don't know. Let us know in the comments. Uh, you know, uh, but but I I am responsible for both of those things within my capacity, right? So even as a parent, like I intended, you know, to toughen you up as a boy, but maybe you were too heavy-handed with me. Right. And so the impact is either I am now heavy-handed with everyone else because that's how I see the world, or you were so heavy-handed that you kind of beat me into putty, and now I'm this sh this shell of myself. So um, I think learning the story from my parents is is helpful to assess the intent, but for me, it doesn't negate the impact. But in that, I also try not to hold them, which is difficult, it's forgiveness. Try not to hold them hostage to their mistakes, their mistakes, what they may not have known, what they may not have been aware of, even though it impacted me greatly.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

So, how was it when you finally broke free, like 18, you were able to leave?

SPEAKER_00 21:44

Oh, I wowed out. What you oh, you went back over there. Oh, goodness. Oh, so I have a running joke with the wife. We call that my lost year. You know how everybody you would now people take gap years? Okay, I took a gap year before it was a gap year. Before we had language. Yeah, but no, we call that the lost year. We don't do maybe, oh, maybe that's something I was talking about. Go ahead and I'm not gonna do it today. Yeah, we call that the lost year. 18, 19. I think I was done by 19. I I can say this. A time was had. A time was had. I was I was in these Houston streets heavy. I don't even know how I survived, to be quite honest. Meaning I don't I don't know where the money came from for us to go out every single night.

SPEAKER_01 22:31

I had that same question. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

Like, because I don't remember, I'm like, we couldn't have been working that good of a job. Like we was, I was always outside. Priorities though. Oh, maybe. And you know what? Maybe we were all living together. So maybe maybe maybe there was a way it worked, but like in my mind, like, how are we able to afford, you know, you want to you gotta buy something to go out. Then you, you know, you're going at the drinks. Well, I know you're 18, but you know, the the the whatever that's available. Don't drink. Don't, don't, do not, PSA, do not drink if you're under the age of 21, okay? It's against the law. All I'm saying is, for me, my experience, things were available. How about that? They were available.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

And it's crazy how it is at that age, but it's not supposed to be.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

No, it's not supposed to be. Don't do it. Okay, we didn't say do that. But yeah, so it's it's my lost year. Cause I mean, I did a lot of I did a lot of partying. I did a I made a lot of mistakes that year. I mean, I still make mistakes, but I mean I made a lot of mistakes that year. Uh, was in relationships that I definitely shouldn't have been in. Um just I would hate to even say young, while and free because I feel like that statement carries a connotation of like the good life. And maybe in the time at that time while I was in it, it felt like the good life. Right. But really, I'm I'm 37 now. In hindsight, it was another the Lord is kind because so so much happened.

SPEAKER_01 23:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

You know, that could be really detrimental to my life today, but it just it just wasn't. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

So how at what age did you find God? When did he when did he call you?

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Hey, Hyundai Bibi Ashata. That's my fake tongues, by the way. Uh you said what age? Yeah, what age did you get called?

SPEAKER_01 24:11

I think we all get called at some point.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

How old am I right now? 37? When I'm even else. I think I was turning 32. I wanna I might have been 30, 31.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Okay. That's about me.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Yeah, I'm gonna say 30, 31, because I I met my wife at 32.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

And it was it was probably like a year and a half before her, if I if my timeline is right right now. Nobody's ever asked me. I don't think anybody's ever asked me that. So, okay, yeah, by third, by 30, 31. So I think come on now. So I I mean, I grew up in church. Let me let me put that there. I grew up in church, but that's why I always tell people that don't mean nothing. Like they don't. It it it's great we should raise our children in the way in which they should go, right? That's what scripture tells us. So like I have my kid in church, but when I say it doesn't mean anything, it's like there is still a personal uh responsibility, application, acceptance of who thus saith the Lord is, right? Right. So that's what I mean by that. It is important to, you know, be in church. But yeah, I grew up in church, but I was always in my mind. I was like my body was there, but I never really was there. Um I still participated, like I was in drill team and choir, and you know, the Lord spoke to me while I was a kid too, and but I still was just doing my own thing. But at 30, 31, whatever age, um it was different. It was different. And I know that I know, yeah, I know that. Yeah, so I was in Vegas at the time. I lived in, I had been living in Vegas. Okay. Um, I was a travel social worker, so I have bounced around. Let me tell you how the Lord the Lord is funny. Now, the king in it is we're finna have a Bible study. Okay, let me go on T. Okay, okay, okay. So um I was a travel social worker prior up to this point. I was a travel social worker, so I had you know been in Atlanta, I had been in LA, I had been in um uh uh northern Northern California, just kind of bouncing around, filling these employment holes really good. If you know anything about a travel nurse, same job or same type of job, different title. Okay, background social work, but we the function is the same about it. Traveling into these interests. Traveling, the coin, hello, uh, all of that. Right. So I go to Vegas and I'm thinking, okay, I'll probably stay here. The contract was three months. I was like, at most, I'll do an extension. I stay here for six months. Okay. I end up being there a year and a half. Oh, because at the end of every contract, they came back and gave me more on the following contract. And so I start adding the numbers. I say, well, shoot, it don't make no sense to leave if y'all, if y'all are gonna keep upping it the way you're upping it, right? I'm not gonna be able to make this somewhere else and then just adjust for cost of living and all that. So I was like, well, shoot, as long as y'all want to ride, I'm gonna ride. Right. So I think the Lord did that intentionally because money was definitely my God at the time. And so it kept me. Oh, it kept me there.

SPEAKER_01 26:57

He's showing you.

SPEAKER_00 26:58

What?

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Money would hold you hostage if you're going after a lot.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

Listen, but we he ain't even revealed himself at this point. This is just me in hindsight. So there's this lady there. Um, her name is Adrian. I'll never forget her. I I can't forget her, she's too integral to the story. She's an older woman. Okay, it's always an old one. It's you know, she's an older woman, she has a son my age. Okay, and um, one of the other social workers introduced her to me. She was a chaplain at the at the hospital, and it was a hospital that had three hospitals, so we would kind of rotate. And so she was like, Yeah, I want you to meet, you know, Adrian, because sometimes people ask for a chaplain and a social worker at the same time, so you should meet her. So I met her, lovely woman, and uh, she says something, she said something about prayer, something. And I was like, Yeah, go, yeah, go on, throw one up for me too. Like, real, real life I feel like right. And I that woman looked at me in my eye and she said, Don't play with me. And I was like, No, go on say a prayer. This woman touched me and she touched me like this, but I felt yanked. She never yanked me, but I I I literally felt yanked. And she prayed, and I said, Oh, she got some power on her. Now, now I didn't understand what all that meant, right? But I was just like, nah, that was different. Right. Something was off. Or on. Or on. Fast forward. So, you know, I'm still working and working at me and her, you know, develop a relationship. I would start, you know, telling her stuff and just talking to her, um, talking to her about the relationship I was in at the time. And um she would just listen. And at the end of everything, or you know, my day, whatever, she would pray. It like clockwork. She would just listen and pray, listen and pray. And mind you, I was still very much whirly, and I was very much like not holding back, not holding back my goings and comings. Hello. Okay, no pun. Jesus will meet you where you are. Listen, and but I what I realized here's the hindsight, I was like, you know what? This woman always prayed. She would never pray, you would, or at least I would think. I don't know if you would think or people would think. She would never pray about the things that I would do in, like the sin that I was in, but she would always pray for me to like, you know, the Lord has a plan for you. I you know, pray that the Lord reveals himself to you, you know, go on.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

That's actually a better prayer.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

Never about touch the relationship. I wasn't supposed to be in a relationship, no way. You know, be here and be that never that. And so one day I had a college friend. Um, we were in a business fraternity together. We were getting closer, not one day, but prior to this one particular day. We were getting closer and um he ended up passing suddenly. Like he was asking me to help him plan this trip for him and his wife, um, because they never took a honeymoon, and so they wanted to take a honeymoon, and I think they had they had just had their baby and was like, they want to take a honeymoon, so I'm like helping them, like, look at this, look at that. And it was it was a Saturday he crossed my mind because I hadn't talked to him in a week. And I was like, oh, you know, I'll figure it out later. And then that Monday is when you know I start seeing the Facebook stuff, and I was like, Whoa, but what? So, you know, you I'm in disarray, like, wait, hold on. Is this real? I'm calling his phone, he's not picking up more and more people posting. He dies suddenly. And um I tell my boss, I was like, Yeah, I gotta go. Um I I I just can't be here today. Pick up my little stuff, walk out the door, here's Adrian. Like walking down the hallway as if the Lord sent her down this hallway, which I'm sure he did. He probably did. Probably did. I tell her what happened, and I just broke. I have never cried. I didn't even cry like that with my grandfather past. Never cried the way I did, and then never broke in someone because again, my mother was emotionally unavailable, my father wasn't there. I got it. I'm gonna hang on. I I'll fit. I mean, just I just broke in this woman's arm. And I'm six foot, 200 something pounds. This woman, she like 5'7, 5'8, maybe 130, but she was able to hold me. I I mean, I broke when I say I broke, I broke, and I'm crying and I'm sobbing, and we in the hallway, and I can I can still hear the elevator, like people were still getting on and off the elevator. We were standing, and I'm just crying, and you know, so I get it all out, tell her what happens, and you know, she prays, and I go home. And it was something I feel like the Lord softened my heart in that moment to show me what a Christian was.

SPEAKER_01 31:30

And I I kind of would you say that's the first time you didn't feel judged for being human? I know men would be scared to show up in that moment like that.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

Sure. I don't know that I ever felt that way. So I didn't have a normal, I didn't really have a like like a lot of normal quote unquote experiences that other men did. Like I ain't never been scared. It is what it is. Like I've always been vocal, I've always, you know, kind of shared how I felt. I just defaulted into the hyper independence, which I think I do share with a lot of men. But like expressing myself, that's never been an issue for me, per se. Um so I didn't I I can't say that I never felt judged, but it just she felt there. That that like that's all I could, that's the that's the only word I got. She was there. Okay. That I think that was the first time I felt like someone was there. Okay. And as a Christian, we should be there for people. And so I saw her in a different light, and then it made me be a little more interested in God. Like, that's why I say the moment, even though it was a very tragic moment, my friend died. Um her being there kind of like started to pique my interest. Like, okay, well, who is the Lord? Like, who and so I started finding myself, you know, kind of like asking her questions, and it would move from asking questions to me being like, I wonder what God thinks about this. So I would Google it and then I would go to the Bible to see like what the script, you know, because I don't know if Google's gonna be right or wrong. Yeah, I got to see. You know, you and so I started, I started to what I didn't know then was I'm starting to inquire of the Lord. I'm starting to seek him out. Yeah, right. Um, and from there, I mean, my world was radically changed. I would say probably like three months later, I'm getting ready for work. At this point, I'm listening to uh uh some gospel artist, I can't remember who it was. I remember the song, but I can't remember who it was, which was also not the norm.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

No, no.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Getting ready for school, uh, getting ready for work. And um I just fell to the floor crying. I just felt the song was on, I'm preparing, and I was just I just fell to the floor and I was like, I'm sorry, Lord. Like I just started apologizing. And I had this like out-of-body experience. I've only had two. This one, and then a couple years later, when I knew my wife was my wife, um, where remember I told you how Adrian touched me and I felt yanked. Yeah. So I'm on the floor crying, sobbing, but then I have this out-of-body experience where it's like a white light hand touches my shoulder, and I can't see the being. I see the hand, and I can see me on the floor crying. And in that moment, I felt, and I knew that I knew I was forgiven. So I knew like I knew that moment, like those, I'm sorry. I didn't even know that I was saying I'm sorry to like actually repent and all the things. I was just, I just think the weight of all the things that I had been through and had done because of what I've been through, I was just apologizing to the Lord. Because at this point, I'm reading my Bible. At this point, I'm inquiring of like, okay, how you say I'm supposed to live? What's supposed to be this? What's supposed to be that? Well, what about this? What about that? And to be to be clear, you know, does the Bible give us, hey, do this, do this, do this? Not in everything. Some stuff, yes.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Something, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:49

But as you begin to uh read and spend time with the Lord, you will begin to understand his ways, right? You will begin to understand like movements and then listen to the Holy Spirit on what you should and shouldn't do. Absolutely. So, you know, that was the moment that I felt forgiven, and I knew I was forgiven. And I mean, my life looks radically different ever since that moment, like radically different at that point.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

So that's a good point, fellas. Like, start somewhere. Um, even if you just read Genesis, that's where I started. I just started reading Genesis. I was like, I'm gonna read the Bible all the way through. Um, and your life just changed. When you start going into it, you'd be like, huh. Huh. It's like, okay, this word really does have life to it. Like, I'm feeling it, fill me up. So every morning it has to be like a I'm reading this. Yeah, um, but I do want to switch gears a little bit. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Can I say this before you switch gears? You say read Genesis, I'm gonna say read Romans. You want something to cut that too? Romans. I love me good, I love me some good Romans. I love it because again, just what I said, like everything is not so the the Bible does have like very clear directives, some stuff is black and white, but then some stuff, like you have to do a lot of work to get cultural context of what it meant, and then like some stuff you could read, and I'm like, Lord, where did you? I don't even know what you're saying. What is this? What is the purpose of all these genealogies? Yeah, you know, but there's a purpose because it's there. But that Romans, Romans, that Romans black and white. We ain't got we ain't got to do too much debate. You know the thing a little bit of debate. Romans is it is what it is, exactly. I love that book because it's just so clear.

SPEAKER_01 36:22

Yeah, but you see, you always know where to go to. So let's just pick it up and just try it. But um, just switch gears, let's get more into like your professional life. But first, I do want to talk about how did you get on traders? If you don't know the traitors, hey, the good and the bad. Yeah, and if you don't know what traders is, it's a TV show on Peacock, um, actually one of my favorite shows. So how did you get on that?

SPEAKER_00 36:47

I was recruited, really. Yeah, I was recruited. Um, yeah, some the the recruiter found me online, found me on Instagram, and uh reached out and was like, hey, we we're casting this game show, and I think that you'd be great at it. And I was like, oh, okay, well look, what is it? Right. She said you can win$250,000. I said, yeah, sign me up. Sign me up. So I'm hoping my application can pull. Hello. Hello. So, you know, that that's really how it went. You know, the casting process, it was it was quite extensive. I will say that it took about took about six months, right, from the initial uh conversation with the recruiter and then you know, the recruiter's boss, and then from there, if I remember correctly, I think it was the recruiter's boss and then the company, because like the network and the recruiting agency are two different things, right? So the network will hire a recruiting company to go find the people. So once you make it through their list, then you come over to the network and then you start, okay, line producer, and then maybe the executive producer, and then everybody who's makes the decision. So it was it was quite a few, um, quite a few interviews. Okay. Um, you know, you have to submit, yeah. I can say this, because we under NDA, but I can say this part. You can submit, you have to submit like some of your life. So, like, okay, do you have videos of doing X? Because they're they're trying to paint a picture of who you are, right? Right. Um, so you do that, they send it off, and then they, you know, you have interviews asking about your life, asking about what would you do if this and that, like really life stuff. You don't really know what's going on in the game or what the game will be about. Right. Mind you, I was season one. Season one. I only say that because there is so much criticism, but we had nothing to go off of. Yeah, you should criticize the rest of the people that's playing now, because y'all got seasons to look back on. Yep. We were the first season. We didn't know what to expect. What to expect. So everyone should learn from our wins and losses. But yeah, so the yeah, that was that was pretty much it.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

It was good. But it was pretty good. I started what season three? So now we're going to go.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Who was on the who was on that season?

SPEAKER_01 38:51

Wasn't that like Phaedra season?

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Phaedra season. I feel like it was Phaedra season two or three. I thought she was. I do think that the season Phaedra was on is what really made it boom. I think it made it boom in black America because white people was watching it. Because we had on my season, we had a uh we had quite a few white contestants. I think I think I want to say there was only three black people on the show. You, Shelby, and us. And Suri. So they on my season. I was a good trader. You write about it. She was an excellent trader. She's an excellent trader. That's why she won. It ain't no spoiler. We're four years uh old now. Yeah, and so in my season, they did 10, they did 10 civilians, that's what they called us, and then 10 celebrities. Yeah. So even of the black people, the two of the three, we were civilians. And so if you weren't a survivor fan, you don't know who Saria is.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Yeah, I didn't know who she was.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

You didn't know who who she was. And then everybody else, they were like, they were white, you know, well, the celebrity side. Um, what season was Phaedra in? Two. Two. Yeah. So I feel like Phaedra being there, that was a smart pick for them because it brought in your Bravo, and then by extension, anybody that knows anything about that, it brought them into like now, what is this? Because the housewives be in there heavy. Oh, yeah, the housewives are in there. Well, if Peacock is owned by NBC. That's true. And NBC Bravo, NBC, like it's all one family. That's true, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 40:12

So going like from your background, how did that experience change you at all? Oh gosh, I'd never do a show like that again. Well, I asked because you would do at least. You know, we how we are. It's that's not our stuff. I don't want to do that. You know, that's they stuff. Yeah. And I always tell people, like, man, try new things, right?$250,000. I'm gonna try. So how did that experience affect you? Or how'd it change you trying something new like that?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

It it was so a lot of things that were happening were new. I was still in the first year of my marriage, and I told you we got pregnant on the honeymoon. So we were five months pregnant when I left. Yeah. So, and I'm a very involved dad. Um that's hard too. Very hard. And when you're playing a game like that, whether you're playing traitors, you know, Big Brother, Survivor, whatever, you don't have access to your phone. Right. They take that. They take that, they take your computer, your Apple Watch. You don't, you don't get to have access to the outside world because you're supposed to be in the game. Okay, so yeah, so it was difficult because you know, my wife is older. She was it was considered a geriatric pregnancy. So I'm like, okay, is the baby okay? Like, what is going on? Right. I can count on one hand how many doctors' appointment I missed while we were pregnant, particularly from traders. Right. So, like when I say I'm in it, I'm in it. So, game aside, it was hard not even just being there and not having access to the information of like, how was your health? How's the baby health? We had a dog with the dog doing, you know, and then you know, my brother came and moved in for while I was gone, like, and you know, that was a whole thing. My brother's younger, we love him, love you. Uh, but it was still just a whole thing, you know. So that was difficult within itself, and then you know, being in a game, not knowing anyone, not knowing who to trust. Right. Nobody. And then also correct, well, fish versus minnows, if you really want to talk about it. See, I went in there trying to be friends, trying to make friends with folks. That's why I got where I end up. But I got where I ended up. Really the lore. Oh, we got something to talk about. Okay, really the lore, too. But I'm I'm gonna tell you in a minute. I'm gonna tell you guys and come back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, but for traders, for traders for sure, I gotta say this because nobody ever listens when I say this. Or I at least I perceive they don't listen, but I will come back to it. But it's difficult. It's different, it's cameras everywhere, much like we have now, it's lights everywhere, you're mic'd up all the time. Um, you don't know who to trust, it's drama happening, which hindsight being 2020, not even realizing like some of the hold on, let me make sure I can say this, some of the celebrities, they've done TV before. Right. And I remember maybe about halfway through the show, one of them, I won't name names, told me. I was like, why are you always da-da-da-da-da? Just why? And they were like, TV time. And I said, What like, what do you mean? And it was like, TV time, it's gonna get me more time.

SPEAKER_01 43:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

And when I watched the final cut, they weren't wrong. They were not wrong, but I had never done TV like that. Like I've done, I had done a lot of uh newscasts, right? Because I was in my political advocacy bag at the time. And so, you know, I've been on your black news channel and NBC LX and all the things, but we're not trying to stir up drama, we are analyzing the politics of the day. Right. So I go in there just being me, not really thinking just being me was enough to get adequate airtime, not understanding no drama sells. Yeah, and you could tell who was a vet and who was a newbie based on watching that season. And so now they don't even do uh civilians versus celebrities. Traitors on Peacock is all celebrities, they're bringing a civilian traitors to NBC, which I think will be better for them anyway, because like for us, I didn't really get a boost in like social engagement from that show. I thought this was gonna catapult me in a certain position, it did not. It didn't still a great experience, but it did not translate into what I think it would. People, when they go to NBC, I think it may do better for them. One, because the show has name recognition now.

SPEAKER_02 44:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 44:16

And then two, NBC is a wider audience. You got to pay for Peacock. NBC is on regular cable. Yep. So that was that. What I wanted to come back to was do what thus saith the Lord. So at the end of the show, so I make it. If you don't, you can, I'm just gonna spoil it. I got it wrong all season. You seen my season yet? We're watching it now. I'm watching you get it wrong. Oh, okay. I already know what happened. Okay, you already know what happened. Yeah, I got it wrong the whole time. I look good though. So, you know. I said he got some nice suits. Yeah, I came through. They should. Do you know they wouldn't even? I can't say that. NDA. So, um I get it wrong a lot.

unknown 44:55

A lot.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

But I make it all 10 episodes. I make it all 10. So I still say, you know, there's something to say about that. But really, the Lord, the Lord was keeping me. Um, but I learned I learned something about myself. It's two things I want to say. I really did learn something about myself because I didn't realize how wrong I could be, especially if I don't like you or I feel like I have an issue. Okay. And that was the thing my wife is grateful for that I went to Traders because she was like, the the issue is you are mostly right. You're not always right. Right. But you operate like you're always right. And in that show, if you watch me, oh, I'm right. You right though. In my mind, oh, I'm right. It's him. I know it's him. Conviction and passion, and maybe I can give a speech now. Oh yeah. Who said it? He was like, uh, Quentin is well spoken.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

I forgot who said it.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

Michael.

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Michael.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Yeah, and he got dragged because of that. He got dragged, and he didn't mean it that way. Uh, because this white man saying this black man is well spoken. What do you mean by that? He got dragged, and honestly, I love Michael. I still talk to Michael to this day. My wife and Michael are cool. Oh. So, like, shout out to Michael. Like, he didn't, he truly didn't mean like that. He didn't mean it like that. But I see how it came out.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Because honestly, everybody said the same thing. They just aired his part. So, you know, take with that what you will. At the drama. Well, it sells. It does. So seeing myself get it so wrong humbled me in a way that I don't think I would have ever been humbled. Because to me, what you saw on TV is really how I lived my life. So it ain't no telling how many times I've been wrong that I didn't bulldoze over people. And because we're not in a scenario where everyone can watch and know what's going on, who knows how many people have just come along with the ride with me based on how I present, based on my level of conviction. And we're gonna go over a cliff and not even know it. So that was very helpful and humbling for me. That was a life lesson that I don't think I would have ever learned had I not done that show. Uh, but two, you got to do what the Lord says. So, what you don't see on the show is episode eight or nine. I think it's probably nine. How far are you? Are we on the speedboat yet? Nine yet. Okay. When we get to the speedboat. We just went home yesterday. Shelby? Oh, Shelby here just went home. You know Shelby in Houston. Really? Shelby living in Houston. I didn't know that. Oh, I don't know if I'm supposed to tell all her business. Well, she's on social media. She posted. Yeah, Shelby living Houston. Oh, but King's initiative. Okay, well, anyway. Anyway, all right. I'm trying to get Shelby a booking. Um, so we get down to final five. Since you hadn't seen it, I'm not gonna tell you who's final five. But we get down to final five, but you do know how it ends. I do know how it ends. So you see. I know who the last three are. You know who the last three are. So those last three, the three of us, make a pact. Okay. We all look alike. So we make a pact that we gonna ride out and get to the end. Right. I don't know. Are you a big brother fan? No. Okay, so I used to love Big Brother. I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_01 48:01

I watched it as a kid, but I haven't like watched it.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

I couldn't do it now. Not doing Traders, I could never do Big Brother. Because they're there. If you make it to the end, you're there way longer than we were in Scotland. I just I just couldn't do it. But I used to love Big Brother. A couple years prior to Traders, there is no, there had never been a black winner. Okay. And on this particular season, there were six black people on the show that decided they were gonna be an alliance called The Cookout. And come on now, called The Cookout, and they were all gonna make it to the end. And so what they did was with the rest of the guests, they all made alliances with other people to always keep them safe, knowing that the six would never vote for them to get out. Right. And we get all the way to the end with all six black players, so it's guaranteed that somebody black is going to win. So the cookout does this. We get our first black winner. His name is Xavier. I forget his last name. We follow each other. He's a lawyer in real life. He wins$750,000. Okay. Traders increase the pies. Okay. All right. So cookout happens about three years prior to traders. Okay. Okay. Put us back in traders at that speedboat. You'll know, you'll know the episode I'm talking about. There's water, there's helicopters, there's speedboats. Yeah, I'm gonna name it. This is this is the scene. We make a pact that, hey, the three of us, we're gonna get to the end. We got we we locked in, we all we got, all the things. At this point, I finally decide to share that we're pregnant. I hadn't told anybody up until that point. Hey, we're pregnant, this is gonna be great, the money, yada yada, yada. And we do just that. We get all three of us to the end to the end. Before we get to the three, there's four. And uh I can't say this without telling you how it actually do you know who the fourth is, or you just know who the final three are.

SPEAKER_01 49:44

I think I remember who the fourth is.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Let me let me say you said You go ahead, tell me. Okay. So Sari is a traitor. Yeah, Ari is a traitor. Dang, I don't even know how far we are. But at this point, Ari had not been a traitor. Ari gets converted to being a traitor. He's recruited, we just recruited. So this whole time we think he we No, he's not, he's not, he's not. So then he flips. So Sari basically uses the fact that the three of us have made a pact, and Ari is uh, he was a former bachelor. Okay. And he, I think him and his dad like race cars for NASCAR. So like they got money. Uses the fact that, you know, you're already well off, you don't need this money, you know, this money could do good for us. I'm gonna vote you, we're gonna vote you out.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:28

Mind you, we were all going to end the game. So the rules were if we decided to vote and end the game, if there were energy any traders left, the traders win. The traders win. So I throw in the end of the game because at this point, like again, Ari had been a faithful this whole time in the game. Andy, in the game. Ari, in the game. Sari votes not to end the game, makes the speech about it. I say, well, shoot, she decided not to end. We got to vote anyway. Right. So look, that's it. All right, Ari. Ari gets voted out. Ari tells us he's a traitor. I I'm flabbergasted because I was like, oh my gosh. So I'm thinking Sari just saved us, not realizing that the man, the man turns to us and basically, in so many words, kind of like out Siri, but not really. But we so caught up in the fact that, like, oh my gosh, didn't even see it. Right. Okay, now hey, it's three of y'all left. You want to vote to end the game or you wanna vote again? End the game. Before I throw mine in, I hear clear as day, used the same argument against her that she used against him. And I immediately went to, oh my gosh, I can't do this to this black woman. We black people, we said we was gonna be together. The cookout just happened, and she and she had lost Survivor several times. She had made it to the end, but she kept losing somebody with it. And I was like, and she done lost, and I mean I reasoned my way out of it, which is crazy because that's what I was doing the whole time. At this, Shelby just went home. I don't know. I don't know. Does has Christian gone home yet? He about to. He about to. So the whole time I had reasoned myself away from Christian too. I saw Christian day one. I remember it clear. I was like, that boy a traitor. And then I was like, well, you know, people act different at work. Maybe, you know, maybe he knows how to put it on, but then don't. I reasoned. That's another thing that I learned about myself. I will reason my way heavily out of something if I really want to, right? So, real good life lessons. Chose to not end it. I'm telling you, heard it clear as day. These people in the game. This woman says she a traitor. Roll the clip. My jaw is on the floor. It's a meme. It is. It is a meme. My jaw is on the floor. I mean, flabber gasted. And you just knew you was rich. At least$70,000? Because we were gonna have to split$250. But shoot, that's a salary. I was like, shoot, we're gonna be good for at least a year. We could do a little, you know, I could put down payment on a house, or you know, whatever. Flabbergat, the woman won the money, stole the money. Stole the money. From day one. From day one. And she played, like watching it back, I was like, oh, this girl was in there cooking. She was. Now she played the game. She played the game. I but when you get to the reunion, I won't spoil that. When you get to the reunion, I do make my voice, I make it known why I was so upset with her. I understand the game, but there was there was something that didn't need to happen. Because you had already won. You had already had us in your pocket. At this point, you already had us in your pocket. Now that I'm watching. Yeah. You didn't need to. Andy is definitely in her pocket by now. 100%. So again, heard that, right? We lose, we go away, we come home. Me and Andy talking about it. You know, the cash. You know, you just you're talking about because it doesn't, it doesn't air for like a uh almost a year. Okay. You know, from when we film it. And um I said, let me just ask Andy. Because me and Andy had had a lot of conversations. Now, Andy is a uh trans man. Okay. And uh, but we had a had a lot of conversations about faith and how, you know, just what does say the Lord, how do you feel, what do you think, all the things. So Andy knew, you know, where I was, and so I said, Andy, on that last day, when all that happened, I said, I just gotta ask. I said, I heard God tell me to use the same example on Serena as she did against R. And truthfully, if I would have done that, would you have voted for me? Would you have voted with me and kicked her out? Andy tells me that it's probably gonna be. Well, no, because Andy told me this. This is not on the show. Andy tells me that Andy would have voted with me because Andy was sick that day and didn't know it. Like we didn't really know it, but Andy would Andy said I was really kind of sick that day, and Sari was moving weird. And I thought it was just because of how I was feeling that I was misreading what was happening. But that whole day, and I and I can cosign it because even when we I'm gonna tell you, even when we vote Kate out, because we finally get Kate. Finally. Finally, we finally get Kate. Even when we vote Kate out, the the the the um how Sari justifies her vote was weird. It was weird to me because she turns to me and basically says she was about to vote me out. And I was like, what? And I remember taking it back, but I was like, okay, she's probably just playing the game. Well, she was playing the game. But in my mind, I'm like, oh, she's just playing the game right now. But Andy said, no, she was moving weird that day. But I was sick and I misread it. I thought it, I really thought it was me. But even though we was cool, if you would have said vote for her, I would have voted for her in that time. Real talk.

SPEAKER_01 56:03

Damn, you was that close.

SPEAKER_00 56:05

Do you know what the story would have been to be wrong all that time? And finally get it right at the end. And then finally get it right at the end. Because really the gag is I was getting it so wrong that Sari kept me around because she knew I would never see her. Yep. So really, I got played the whole time. That's how I got to the. I didn't really get to the end, if you think about it.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

I got carried to the end. To be a good trader, you have to have somebody to go to the end with.

SPEAKER_00 56:29

Oh, well, she did it. No, the chef's kids, what'd they say? Yeah, what Carisha said? You know it's T when you see them two fingers. Yeah, yeah. That's what Carisha said. So she did her job. But what would the story have been? And then for me to be on the other side and say, the Lord told me to do that. The Lord gave me guidance in this. So, you know, all things work together for the good of those that are called according to his purposes, right? So, even in that, he still gets the glory because he got he showed me myself.

SPEAKER_02 57:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

And myself was heavily flawed. I would have never learned. I mean, I'm still flawed, I'm not perfect, but I would have never been able to, my wife wouldn't have been able to explain to me that you're really thick-headed and you don't see everything that you think you see.

SPEAKER_02 57:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:15

If I had not gone through it and been able to see myself on camera get it so wrong. Damn, the whole world seen me get it so wrong. The whole world, very much. But y'all ain't gonna embarrass me. It is what it is. I was on TV. Look, my seat didn't want an Emmy. And so you can say what you want to say. I was wrong and the Emmy came home. Okay. So now, you got entertained, but but and seriously, seriously, seriousness, excuse me, um, those were the life lessons I learned for myself and what I would just give to people that I feel like maybe because we don't have a long enough conversation, you know, for me to fully explain it is that like when the Lord tells you to do something, do it. Oh, we're gonna hit part two. Do okay, well, do it. Because we can't have part two, because he done told me to do some stuff and it ended out wrong. And I'm like, why would you do this? So but for the traitors example, do it. Obedience is better than sacrifice. Yeah. So you never know what that obedience could get you. Because that obedience could got you a lot of money. It could have gotten me a whole lot of money. And think of think, I tell you, I didn't really get a career bump from it. Like what you see now is not because of traders. It's just not. I did not get a career bump from it. Okay. But being so wrong all that time and getting it, do you know how many more shows I would have got on? How many more shows I could have booked? Do you know what the story would have been? Because again, they have to give you the audience the story. There we film, but they're still crafting a story. Yeah. I would, if I would have got it right at the at the end, do you know how much more TV time I would have got throughout that? Because they would have had to, they would have had to, okay, like Kate. Kate, this is basically Kate's show. Kate has a lot of TV time.

SPEAKER_01 58:45

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

I guess I kind of gave it away from what I said earlier. Kate has a lot of TV time. That was Kate's show. But I targeted Kate. Kate still made it very far, and she caused drama. She knew what to do. That one uh mission y'all go up that hill, she started thinking about stuff. Or I wish they would have played. They ain't they didn't even show y'all what happened at the end. I can't tell you because they ain't aired. I wish they would have showed y'all what happened when we finished that challenge. Everybody was pissed. Oh, yeah, I could tell. Everybody was pissed. Um but think about and but think about just for me and talk about the career boost, they would have had to give y'all so much more backstory on me. They would have had to make me integral to the show, not up until like you get to see more of me, like really my personality, at least I think episodes seven through ten.

SPEAKER_01 59:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 59:36

I feel like for the first half of the show, is like I'm just kind of I heard your voice, but there's something I didn't see you. Yeah, you hear me, but you don't really see me because I'm not integral into the larger story that they had to tell based on how things played out. So do what the say it's a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

That that hey fellas, that is uh oh, learn something from that. I know I like traders, so of course we had to talk about it. But the lesson I just got from that is be obedient because you never know where your obedience is gonna take you. Like he said, he could, if he would have listened to God, he would have won 125,000, right? Yeah, we'd be split. And then he would have got more TV time, more shows that bring in more money. So be obedient. Um, but before we wrap up, I just want to ask you what is your message to the world? Be obedient. If you had to give one advice to be obedient, not for real, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

Nah, let me stop playing. No, for real, for real. Obedience is definitely better than sacrifice. Um yeah. Definitely. Can I give two messages? Go ahead. Okay, yeah. So obedience is definitely better than sacrifice, be obedient to what thus saith the Lord. Um, and then the second thing, just based on the work that I do, I think it's important for uh people to learn about their history. And and when I say history, I mean like their upbringing. Learn your parents' story, learn where they come from, and then find yourself a good therapist that can help you see it from a different perspective. I like to tell my wife all the time, like, you can't see all of you. If you stand in front of a mirror, you can only see in front of you in the parts you can turn to the side. I'm your husband. I can see what you can't see. Uh-oh. I can see what you can't see. Do you hear that, wife? Uh, I'm just trying to hello. Let me let me help a help a marriage ahead of day. But vice versa too. Right. Right? And so the same way in therapy, like a therapist, I don't know your whole life story. So I don't come with the context and the bias and all this other stuff, but I can see things that you can't see. Like, I love getting like two months into it because at this point, now I'm noticing patterns, I'm noticing thought processes, and I can give you something that you may not be aware of because that's what you're used to operating in. So I guess my other part will be like get yourself in the seat of a qualified therapist if you are a man, if you are a couple, particularly. I love doing couples therapy, uh, because it's just so illuminating to see like couples be on the verge of fracture to being you know communicative and integral in each other's lives.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:02

That's a good one, y'all. Um, we definitely gotta do a part two. Let's do it. Because I definitely want to get more into the therapy part of it. Come on, let's do it. But guys, uh, remember like, share, subscribe, leave a comment, feedback, send this to somebody. Um, we'll see you guys next week.