What Losing My Daughter Taught Me About Friendships, Grief, with Michael Blackshire

Some losses you never "get over." You just learn to carry them differently. My friend Michael Blackshire knows this better than most.

🎙️ IN THIS EPISODE:

Michael Blackshire is a special education teacher in Dallas, a Grambling State graduate, military veteran, and one of my longtime friends. We met back in 2011 at Grambling, went through the military together, and built a friendship that's lasted over a decade. In 2017, Michael lost his daughter Leighton to SIDS at 6 months old. His story isn't just about grief it's about the friendships that refused to let him face it alone, and what it looks like when brothers show up for each other in the darkest moments.

💭 WE EXPLORE:

The instant transformation of becoming a father and why Michael needed a daughter first. Waking up to every parent's nightmare: losing Leighton to SIDS. What it's like when investigators walk through your home asking if you're feeding your child while your baby is at the hospital. Why some family members held him to impossible standards while our friend group filled his apartment for months. The difference between coping (alcohol, partying, avoiding) and healing (therapy, sitting in the pain, community). How grief reshapes itself: from "I lost my child" to "What would she be doing now?" Why Black male educators are essential for young Black boys. Moving to New Orleans as a reset and why sometimes you have to leave home to heal. The guilt of living a full life after losing a child. Why therapy became non-negotiable four years after her death.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:05

Welcome back to the Enter King Initiative. And one thing I like to preach is brotherhood. One thing I like to preach is having men around you who are willing to pour into you, willing to love on you, um, is to accept you for who you are and your faults, man. And good counsel, right? We have to have somebody in our corner or people in our corner who tell us when we're wrong, who tell us when we need to do better, right? Or when we can, you know, when we're trying to make a decision, sometimes we're like, I'm just angry, I just don't want it as it is. And somebody can come in and say, bro, chill out. My guess is that person for me for real through all these years, man. We we linked the what 2011 uh back in college. Yeah, we went to the military together.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

2012 somewhere in that ball. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

We went to the military together, but we were kids, bro. And now we're grown men, we're working in it. Um, we've both been through a lot, but we always been there for each other, no matter what, no matter if we've seen each other, and that's real friendship. You know, society has these rules on friendship that says, Oh, you have to see your friends all the time. Like, I gotta hit you up and be able to see you the next weekend. But sometimes, you know, you go your way, I go my way. And um, further, no further ado. Let me introduce my guest, Michael Blackshire. How you doing, bro? What's going on with it, man?

SPEAKER_01 1:17

What's happening? Man, loving life, bro. Happy to be here, bro. Hey, glad to see you, bro. Hey, it's been a minute, man. It has, bro. It's been a minute. Yeah, wrapped in a minute. I know, it's crazy. I think what was that 2024? Oh, yeah. I think that was it. I was out here for that car show. Yeah, that was the last time I saw you. So you said in the beginning, man. Friendship, hey, you know, here, there, anywhere, don't matter where we are. We still gonna keep it. Exactly, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:40

We've been locked in for a minute. Yeah, yeah. But let them tell them a little about yourself, bro. Who you are, where you from?

SPEAKER_01 1:47

For sure, man. Well, you know, I'm coming from Louisiana Street Report to be exact. Roger City, yeah. You feel me? You know what I mean? Uh I I I I love where I'm from, man, but uh currently I live in Dallas. Well, the DFW area. Um man, it has been a journey. Absolutely. You know, I graduated from Gramlin State.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

The Gremlin State.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

The Gramlin State University, home of the world-fame Tiger Marching Band. And the winning is head coach in football history. Okay. G. Robinson, sing you. You feel me? Um, I also spent some time in the military, which I have a love-hate relationship with. Um about that. One of the things that I really do appreciate is I really do appreciate me good people. Absolutely. You to be specific, because you were like one of the first people I met.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Um I think we met a little bit before that, though.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

In RSP. I think it was like kind of where we just started like conversing. Like I saw you, I saw you around. Yeah. But when we got to RSP, uh, that's when I was like, okay, that's when we started talking. And then we ended up at AIT with each other. I think I was like a class ahead of you. So a week ahead of me, yeah. Yeah, so things went, things went like that. I did that. Um I spent some time in New Orleans, which was even better. That was a great life experience. Um, I don't know how much time we got for that, but you know, we could talk about that one all day. And and ultimately that led me to the DFW area. Um, I've been in education for over 10 years. Actually, this is my 10th year, and currently I am a special education teacher at an alternative school. And I love what I do. I love my job, I love what I do. And I know the attitude um in general about education, you know, it is what it is. But for me personally, I like what I do, I like where I work, and I like who I work with.

SPEAKER_02 3:34

And I gotta commend you, bro, because being a black man and showing up in an educational space, a lot of men are not willing to do it because of the pay. Nah, but the impact is better.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

And the thing about it is, I mean, studies show that um for every student that has a blackmail educ, for the more blackmail educators that a student has in their life, um, the least likely they are the more likely they are to graduate, the least likely they are to go to go to prison. You know, this it's just it's just the the the just more likely to succeed. Right. Um, like you did cite the pay is an issue. I do think that's dependent on where you live. Okay. Um, because personally, I don't have any complaints. But some people might. You know, but some people might, you know, I also don't have a family to take care of, but like it's just me. Right. You know, so I mean, you know, I you know, everybody's you feel me, you know. I mean, you know, at this point, you know, I'm older now, so it's like, yeah, I am kind of starting to, okay, oh, yeah, it might be, you know, it might be time to go ahead and you know, tuck it on in. But um, but I love what I do. Um, and with what I'm able to see at work, it ended up pushing me into a space where I was like, okay, I think I need to do more with what I have, with my skill set. Um, and that's that's something similar to yours, but with younger men, you know what I mean? With our young fellas, because they're neglected. Oh, yeah. Our young fellas are neglected. Like, it's not like how it was when we were growing up, because it was still something there.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Kind of, kind of, depending on your people.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

You feel me? But like they don't have anybody now. You know what I mean? So oftentimes when you get to talk to them, like they're still people too, but it's kind of weird to just watch them be so forgotten about and thrown away to the side by virtually everybody, yeah. You know, in home and outside too.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

And that breeds a lot of like abandonment issues, self-worth issues, and so having somebody to um just show them some love helps.

SPEAKER_01 5:35

Yeah, I mean, because the thing about it is, I mean, if they don't get love at home, they'll find it somewhere else. In the streets, you know, in the streets is the number one place where they're starting to find it.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

Oh, yeah. Cause it's my bros love me. You feel me? Quote unquote, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Quote unquote. And you know, they're getting younger and younger. You know what I mean? So it's not like these are you know, these are 16, 17 year olds who are starting out, they're starting out young as 12 now. Yeah, you know, and maybe and to be very honest, depending on where you are, younger than that, which is crazy to me. So it would be dope if we had more black men in education in general, you know, uh, just because you know, we bring something to the table that a lot of other people can't. Right. And I've always had people ask me, like, well, what is it that you do with XYZ students? It's like it's nothing that I do, it's just that I I'm able to connect and talk to them in a way that a lot of other people can't.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

And sometimes that's better. Yeah, honestly. And I, you know, I seen it with Savannah, she's you know, she's an educator and everything, for y'all who don't know. Um, but seeing her and like she's like telling me about the kids, I'm like, okay, you really go in there and connect with these kids, like to the point where they trust you enough to tell you what's going on. Absolutely. And it's like most teachers just go in there looking for the check, and they just want their kids to act a certain way, but you're not really pouring into them.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah, you don't give them anything that they can leave with. And um, I mean, you I mean, if you want a check, it'll be there for you, it's available, you know. But depending on I would say this the more you put into it, the more you get back. Yeah, if you put a lot into it, if you put a lot into it, you get a lot back in return. Okay. You know, you it's it's a it's a great ROI because at the end of the day, you see success. You know. And you know, I have been able to see individuals who were headed down the wrong path, and then all of a sudden they made a pivot. And, you know, they're changing, you know, the trajectory of their family in general, you know. So that's always super dope. You know, and all it takes is one person. They do, you know, the black sheep of the family. You feel me? All it really does is just take one person, you know, to make things, make things right um for the rest of the family and everybody that comes behind them. It's just the example, the model form, you know. Right. But, you know, that's that's a little that's a little bit about me, man.

SPEAKER_02 7:43

Honestly, truly, even like looking back at my story, black educators is the reason why I'm still alive today. Man, just those men who were like, I'm gonna teach you more.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

You feel me? Let me put you aside real quick. I don't want to do that. Yeah, like come talk to me. But it's needed, but it makes sense though, because all it is is preparation. Oh, yeah. You know, it's preparation for the world in front of us. Um, and how we grew up is a little bit different than how you know these young men are growing up today. Um what I can say is that there is a lot of hope for the future. And I know that you know, there are some concerns, but uh sometimes what keeps me grounded is I think about what happened when I was their age too. Right, you know, and I do think about some stupid stuff that I said or did or you know, posted. So I try to come from a place of understanding more than judgment. Right. You know, because sometimes they genuinely just don't know.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

They're still children, you know, or they're acting out because they're not receiving something at home, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Behavior is communication, you know, you're trying to you're trying to communicate something, whether you need something, want something, like you said, trying to get attention, something like that. You know, people always want to people always will demonstrate what they need from you or what they're trying to get from you, you know. But um, outside of that, man, you know, I mean, we could talk about that all day. Oh, absolutely. You know, you know, there's other topics that I really want to get into. I mean, if we could, if we had the time, man, we could sit here and do a little pod a throne or something. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Because we got plenty, right? And so let's go back because a lot of people don't understand what it's like to grow up in Shreveport.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Um, my my dad's side is from Shreep, but I don't even understand how it feels to grow up. So I remember going there as a kid, but how was it growing up in Shreveport?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

Man, I'm not gonna lie to you, man. It was pretty good. It was pretty good for me. Um, I was fortunate, I will say that. Um one of my gifts and my talents that I recognized at an early age was that I knew academically I was alright. Right, you know, compared to a lot of my other peers. And I'm not saying that to brag. Like that was it was a definite, okay, yeah, I'm yeah, this is something I'm actually good at. Right. You know what I mean? You know, everybody had their thing. Some people had sports, some people had uh video games, some people had, you know, whatever. My thing was school, right? And I knew that at an early age. Now, there was a point in time where I'd say when I get to middle school, it's not clicking, it's not there. Right. You know what I mean? But I get to high school and I'm getting right back on track. So with me knowing that and understanding it, that kind of gave me a little space to do what I needed to do coming up. Um, elementary school was fine. I I had both my parents around. My parents are still married to this day. Um blessings. Yeah, and they love each other too, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:32

I seen them, I seen them interact in person, like they love each other for sure.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

All right. Go find a room, you know what I mean? Um as you should. But yeah, I have my parents, man. Um, I grew up around a lot of love. And I grew up around a lot of. This is important for kids, to be sure. My family is massive. Like when I say massive, there are three sides to my family. You know what I mean? Um, of course, you have, you know, mom and dad, but then I have my like my other side of the family as well. My Florida folks, my Florida people, you know, um, and it's a lot of relatives on every side of that fence. Okay. So I grew up around a lot of people. I grew up around a lot of love. As I got older, um, I wasn't around as much. Okay. And I will say that it's something that's spilled into my adult life. Um, there's nothing but grow until you stop it. I've grown to appreciate solitude. Oh, absolutely. Like I I don't like feeling it's it's not a feeling of loneliness, but um, I do appreciate solitude. But I had a great set of friends growing up. Um I played sports. I had a regular childhood. Right. You know, of course, we all go through stuff, right? Absolutely. But for the most part, I have nothing to complain about. Like, I'm not angry at my parents. You know what I'm saying? I don't hold any trauma from my childhood or anything like that. Like, I had a pretty, I had a pretty good solid childhood. All my needs were met, and some of my wants. Um, Shreeport at the time, when I was coming up as a kid, it was booming. Um some places surrounded it weren't as developed yet. Shreeport was still a major hood. Like when we were coming up, uh like I think I'm about to probably say when we first moved to Shreeport after my mom graduated from college. She graduated from ground two. You know what I'm saying? Her and pop shout out, you know. Um, I think I was about you know five or six or six. And there was so much there that left. Right. Like we had a Boeing plant, General Motors was there, ATT. There was this other plant corporation um called Lucent Technologies. I don't think it even exists anymore. They left or they went out of business or something like that. And then we had this other place called Libby Glass, which you know gave a lot of people in the city jobs. And of course, if you've ever been to, you know, been through Shreveport, you know, for the people at home, I mean, if you like to gamble, that's definitely a place you can stop. I mean, they got like eight casinos. Of course, you got some good crab legs. You feel me? And depending on where you go, man, you might get that crab leg buffet. Hey, hey, remember we went into the oh we went one day, we didn't do pay for us. And do pay for us, man. We were in uniform that day. I remember that. We we went and do show love. But um, Shreveport's an amazing place, even to this day. It's not what it was when I was coming up. And every time I do go home, I do get a little sad because there's some things that are no longer there. Yeah, you know, I went home for Christmas and I went through the mall, and the busier, bigger mall was basically non-existent. Really? Like I think it might have been a Dillard's in there, a Bath Body Works, and maybe a restaurant or two. But for the most part, what we had, our children don't. Right. You know, a lot of that has to do with politics.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

That's how I feel about here too. Growing up here. There's a lot of stuff that I remember seeing as a kid as gone.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

Celebration station, like all these different places, right? Phone Plex ain't even problem like that no more.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

And yeah, and the only place you really had those memories is either in pictures or in your head. Yeah. You know, and some of those memories are attached to people as well. You know, so it it's it kind of gives you a little somber feeling when you when you um when you drive by and it's like I remember that used to be such and such place. You know, it's not that anymore. But Street Board was cool. I had a good guy, school was okay, you know. Um high school could have been a little bit better, right? You know, but that was because of where I went, you know, which that is in a different space now. Like my high school's in a much better position than it is, much better position than it is it is today than it was when we were coming up in school. It kind of wasn't really intended to, it was kind of just there, right? You know, and school is what you make of it. So I tried to do what I could. I played sports. Um, I was in uh FCA, Fellowship of Christian Athletes. I did that, and uh, you know, I was honorable still, you know, moms and pops didn't really play about grades like they did. That wasn't really an option, right? Especially with my mom teacher, like oh yeah, yeah, I didn't really, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

I'm so happy my mom wasn't a teacher, but I'm happy that I married to one.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

You feel me? Mom's known when the report card came out. Like, by the time I get in the door, she she got her hand out like this. Like, where like where is it?

SPEAKER_02 15:03

You know, it's okay now online. Hey, bro, I walk the kids walk in the house. I'd be like, Ooh, yeah, yeah. Okay, good. Because I I let her do that because she is an educator. Yeah, um, but I, you know, I I'm as a man, I I'm involved in it, but uh, but I definitely gotta say, you have always been one person I know who put education first.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

Yeah, man. I mean, because education is the great equalizer. Oh, yeah. I know you'll hear people hear people say, Oh, education doesn't matter, or college is a scam. I don't think it's a it's not a scam at all, if we're just gonna be honest with you. You know what I'm saying? Majority of the people, you know, in this world you know, who have achieved a particular level of success are college educated. Yeah, you know, uh education is a key. And then I know that sounds cliche in because you've heard it so many times, especially growing up, but it really is. Right. I don't think I would have been afforded the opportunities that I had if I didn't go to school. You know what I mean? That opened up a lot of doors for me. Um, and by being younger and working through manual labor, I knew that wasn't anything that I was gonna be able to do for 20 years. Yeah, you know what I mean. So you hurry were you working at Lowe's when we were in college? I was working at Lowe's, UPS. I've done Lowe's, UPS, FedEx, Amazon. While we were in college. You feel me? And was still partying. And it was in the military too, like scam. And I was a I was a I was a server at a casino too. Like I stayed busy. Yeah, I definitely got to it. But you know, I got that from Pops though. Yeah, you know, Pops was definitely somebody who, you know, who really got to it, and I watched him. Um, and at the time, you know, when you're younger, you really you don't really understand what you're it's like you don't really understand.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Yeah, you're just going with your default of what you learned, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:47

When I got older, I realized like what he was trying to show. You know what I mean? And I really appreciate that because there were things that he would do, and it would really irk me. You feel me? But I understood it as I got older and became my own man because it's like, oh, he was he was basically saying, You're gonna have to do this someday. Yeah, you know, and he he he didn't say that, but everything he did was like I'm right there next to him as he's doing it, or he's having me do it, right? You know, as I'm younger. And so me and my father, we have a great relationship. We didn't always have the best relationship. Um it's funny because when I was younger, I used to say that my father was a man with good intentions, with bad execution. You know what I'm saying? And I had to have some conversations. I got old. I'm like, hey, look, y'all kind of did a, you know, like we didn't have to do all of that. Like we were cool, you know. But um, you know, I'm thankful though. You know, I am thankful. Um, because when that moment comes when I do have to, when I do have my own family, um, there are some there are a lot of tools that he gave me. Yeah, you know, there are a lot of tools that my mom gave me and a lot of things that she taught me as well, you know, and I really appreciate that because I do understand a lot of people didn't have that, right? And so that does, for me, that allows me to kind of recognize a little bit of uh a little bit of fortune in my life in that area because I was able to take those tools and you know, pretty much create a life for myself where I I'm all right.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

Yeah, you know what I mean? You you have no choice but to be grateful for the experience, especially when you got when you get to college, you learn people and what they've been through sometimes. And um, you don't know how many conversations has happened over drinking sitting in the calf, like whatever, you know, whatever's going on, right? And uh, but I've watched you man, we both grew. We broke, you know, we was always partying, we was always doing those things, but I watched us slow down and laugh and say, Man, we watched. But it's more so like, no, we just matured, it was you know, we let things go, and that that is a part of the journey. And man, I know it like we used to say at the beginning, like we've always been there for each other. There's been times where I was buckling, and bro, was like, pick it up, like get your life together, bro.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

It's the same thing like hey bro, lock it, lock in, lock in, you feel me?

SPEAKER_02 19:00

That's the importance of community, bro, no matter what. Um, but I know one big thing that happened for you was losing your daughter. Yeah, and I remember when it happened, and it's crazy because when we were texting earlier this week, and you was like, It's been 10 years. I really had to stop, and I was just like, I was like, damn, it has been 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 19:19

She would have been 10 October 1st. Yep. Yep, she was born October 1st, 2016. And she came early. Yeah, I mean, it was it's a funny, it's a funny story. Um I one another thing I'm fortunate for, the the her mother. Yeah, you know, um shout out to Skyler. Yeah, my my my daughter's name was my daughter's name was Lady Marie Blackshire. Um she passed from SIDS. So went to bed, everything was okay, woke up the next morning, and it wasn't okay. So just that alone was you don't know how to process that in that moment.

SPEAKER_02 20:01

You don't, bro.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 20:02

I can't even imagine it.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

I rem I remember like one of the things that I'm appreciative about is that I do have a very good memory, but that's also part of the problem too. I have a very good memory. So some stuff that I don't want to remember, I remember the details. You know what I mean? Um, so first things first, before she even gets here, I go to GameStop, right? So this is when she's still pregnant. Right. I go to GameStop, and I knew she had a uh she had an appointment that day. And I was always going to the appointments, but I knew they were like quick, they were like 10 minutes, check the heartbeat, all that type of stuff, whatever. And I'm just like, boom. So I'm like, I really want to go home and play this. Right. But I was like, I gotta pass the hospital to get home. So I said, let me just stop by, let me go to the hospital. Because I was gonna be like, you know, I've been to the rest of them, it's okay. Then I thought about it, and someone said just go. Right? Well, she gets admitted that day. Okay, you feel me? Yeah, and she is a little early. Long story short, we were supposed to have a baby Monday, and we had to have an emergency C section that Saturday.

SPEAKER_02 21:05

I remember that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Yes. So what made it even crazier is that that same Saturday morning, my aunt's funeral was that morning. So my mom and my grandma are in Detroit. Cool. You feel me? Right. So mom's and grandma over here, and you know, Pops is here too, but you know, I was looking for that. I'm looking for mama because mama, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 21:28

That's that thought state she's supposed to fall back on.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

Pops is there, and I'm not, and I wouldn't, and I wasn't mad at him, but but mom is, but I just needed moms there. You feel me? But she but as soon as she got off the plane, she headed straight to the hospital. You know what I'm saying? Long story showed that late. You feel me? Now, what I will say is I was very immature before I became a parent. I I will honestly say that I also wasn't really home a lot in the beginning. Those beginnings, because I really didn't kind of understand it. Like I was like, Yeah, I know I got a baby on the way, but I didn't understand, like, okay, it's also time for you to be a father, it's also time for you to be a partner. I didn't get that part. What made sense and what made everything feel real was the morning of when they like, yeah, we finna go ahead and you know get her out. Yeah. You feel me? I'm like, oh, the baby coming. It's happening. And I remember they were like, Are you ready? And you know, me and her in the room together. And I'm like, Yeah. And they pulled the baby out, hold the baby up. And I'm like, oh, that's my kid. You feel me? That was crazy feeling. Especially when it's a girl. Because you know how I was. I was not having no kids. Like, I wasn't doing that. We're the same way. You feel me? I was not, I was not, I was not a uh like I always wanted to get married, but the children was kind of like a mm, maybe, until I had one. Right. And then I was like, okay, I loved it. You know, I I I loved being a father. Right. You know what I'm saying? Even though, like, I didn't, it was a lot I didn't understand on the outside. Right. Like, how do you not come home to your kid? How do you not see your kid? How do you not talk to your kid? That's a question for me. How do you not see your kid? Like I understood, like I understood why some women would go on Facebook and go dog their baby daddy out. You feel me? Because the first few weeks, we tried to have like a little system where it's like your turn, my turn, or your week, my week, or my day, your day. It didn't matter. Right. If I'm up, you up too. Yeah. And vice versa. You know what I'm saying? Because we all up together. So I could understand that because you're not really sleeping. You know, you tired, you're exhausted. That first year and some change. It's hard. You feel me? Hey, you know, I think for us, we got her on a schedule really early. I think about that third month, she was asleep through the night. So she probably go to bed by 10, wake up about five. Right. You know what I mean? We got on a schedule like really quick. You know, we were lucky for that. Um, but I love being a dad. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 24:01

It's not how you have fun with it.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

Yeah, yeah. It was, it even though it wasn't, even though it wasn't that long, I enjoyed being a father. You know what I mean? Um, and I would say that was a life-changing moment.

SPEAKER_02 24:15

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:16

Having just have just becoming a father was a life-changing moment. Oh, absolutely. Because the like the moment I saw her was like your life changed. Oh, yeah. It changed one, but two, I was like, oh, we really gotta be a man about this. Like, she she's depending on you, she's counting on you. You know what I mean? And I'm like, okay, well, I can't fall off. Like, I gotta go ahead and lock in and get to it. You know what I'm saying? So I definitely love that moment. Now to fast forward to, you know, like you said, losing her. That was another journey in itself, which on the back end of it, I really I also appreciate. And I had to find I try to find the silver lining and everything. There are still some questions that I have regarding that that I'll probably never get answered for. Probably not. But you know, there were some things that I definitely had to go through as a person, as a human being, to pull me out on the other side of that fence. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

It it motive who you are today.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

No, for sure. Because I couldn't fix that. You know, and I'm always, you know, no, people come, you know, people are always trying to get me to fix fix stuff. You know what I'm saying? Everybody's trying to get me to fix stuff, and I'm trying to always fix something. And that was one thing I couldn't fix, bro. You feel me? So, you know, I wake up and you know, my kid, stiff. Right. You feel me? Like stiff. So in my head, I'm like, I already know. I just couldn't accept it in that moment. So, you know, boom, I call 911, they show up, go to the hospital. What I didn't know is that in Louisiana, when the child is under the age of two, there has to be an investigation. Right? So imagine me. My kid is off at the hospital, and I gotta sit in my house as they walk through my house and ask me questions if if we're feeding her, if she's sleeping, all that type of stuff. Like, I can't answer no questions right now. The craziest thing, though, the one of the investigating officers that was there, she said it's gonna be alright. You can make another one. I'm like, lady, I don't want another one. I want that one. That's mine. And I didn't have any more children after that because I also understood the importance of being married before I had more kids and understanding what that looked like. Um, that is something I'm that's big key, you know, and that's something I wish I would have done a lot differently. You know what I'm saying? Um, but you know, after they finish their investigation or whatever, it's time to go to the hospital. We go, and before I even make it, I get a phone call. So I'm kind of just there. Right. You feel me? I don't know what to feel, I don't know what to think. Numb very, very, you know what I'm saying? Um and uh that numbness was something that I just had to sit in. And that's a really uncomfortable thing to sit in. You expect to lose granny, you expect to lose granddaddy, you expect to lose mama, daddy, maybe a sibling, but you don't never expect to bury your kid. Yeah. I would wish that anybody. You feel me? Could I can't. You know what I mean? No matter how I feel about you, I can't wish that because the one the baby don't deserve that. But two, that is that's that's a pain. You can't you can't take that away. Right. Because that was 2017 when she passed. Here it is 2026, and the grief is still there, it just became a lot easier to carry. Like this story is easier to talk about. Right. Because when it first the first few years after it happened, I couldn't get through it.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

Yeah. I remember we didn't really talk about it much. But also, as a friend group, I can tell everybody rallied.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Yes. And and and that's why I love y'all so much, man. Nah, for real, like, like, like, like a lot of people don't understand. Like, when I talk about my friend group specifically, like I love my friends. You know what I'm saying? Like, I love my friends, because my friends are also a part of my family as well. Right. You know, they're part of my circle. You know, in that moment, I remember that day after I got home from the hospital. Um I saw I tell people don't come over here. Right. I remember going home, everything was as it was left. So it's baby stuff everywhere. You feel me? Right. I'm like, ugh.

SPEAKER_02 28:48

And I gotta see it. I gotta see all her stuff.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

You feel me? And so I remember just cleaning everything up and I put it in her room, and I remember closing the door. I kid you not. Me and her mom didn't open that door. I think for about four months. About four months. It was just all her stuff. Crib, decorations, clothes, pampers, wipes. We had a we had a we had a lot of stuff. Like a baby shower came, people donated a lot.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

I remember that.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

She ain't miss nothing, you feel me? So a lot of that stuff we we donated. Yeah. We donated, we gave away. And you know, I told people don't come over. You know what I'm saying? I was cool. And I think people just came anyway.

SPEAKER_02 29:30

Oh, yeah. People just people just because that was the the the love that we developed. And it's crazy because a lot of us was met in college, all right, and it was just the love that we developed. So people showed up. I remember um tip showed up for sure. Yeah, there was a couple other people I couldn't do.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

A lot of people showed up, bro. Like a lot of people hopped on that role. Like, and those are the moments where you realize, like, okay, you got some people in your corner, you got some people for you. Because of course, people are there, right? But when people are there in a moment like that, like my apartment was packed for like that. Was April. I don't think my apartment, my apartment was packed from that point forward till I moved to New Orleans. Because I moved to New Orleans at the end of that year. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? So from that point on forward, somebody was always at the house. We playing the game, we kicking it, we drinking, we cooking, watching. It didn't matter. Somebody was over there, somebody was coming. You know what I mean? And that was something I definitely was able to appreciate because that wasn't anything I don't think I could have got through by myself.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Oh yeah, absolutely. I don't think we're supposed to get through anything by ourselves, honestly. That's why having a community is important because as men, we tip you typically go into isolation. Um I just want to be by myself, like you said, don't come over. But getting that support, you realize, like, oh, I did need y'all to come over.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Yeah. Um, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be real. Uh I'm gonna be very real about this topic. Um another thing that I'm on the other side of the fence on is that experience. But I appreciate my friends for stepping in where some of my family didn't. Right. I needed a little bit more of that too. You know what I'm saying? I remember I'm not gonna put a name on it, but there was a person.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Which you know who you are.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

There was a person, right? It was actually two people, two people. I had a lot to say. Um mind you, I think my baby passes on a Friday, so Monday rolls around. We all to the funeral home. Stuff like that. But that Saturday before, um somebody tells me they're disappointed in me. Right? Right. I'm thinking they're joking, right? Right. Because my baby literally died the day before, so what are we disappointed about? Right. And they said, because I wasn't coming around. I said, I said, well, um, I don't think that was one of those, that was one of those situations where I don't think that people realize that I lost my baby too. Right. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know how to how to work that. How to navigate that. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know how to go through that. I know how to navigate that because I had never experienced that before. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, most of the time when you hear about dad, dad is off to the side, doing whatever, but back to work, my boots on the ground.

unknown 32:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

You feel me? So every appointment that she was at, I was at. Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

Intentionally.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Intentionally, you feel me? Like even when she was here, doctor, I'm there too. Cause I don't know, I don't know any of this. And at the time I'm 24. You feel me? So I don't, I don't know what's going on. I gotta learn this stuff, you know what I mean? So um it kind of showed that a lot of people kind of held me to a different standard, even though I was just sad. Right. Like I was flat out broke, bro. You know what I'm saying? And so it's hard for people, I guess, to recognize that in us as men, because we were expected to be the leader, but that was one place I didn't feel like leading.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Right. In some places you shouldn't have to leave. You know what I'm saying? I ain't want to leave. Well, you well, I won't say you shouldn't have to leave. It's there's some times and some seasons where you have to focus more on you than anybody else.

SPEAKER_01 33:13

Yeah, and I and I had to. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Um I I had to because I wasn't I wasn't here. Yeah. Like I don't know what's going on. Kids you not, I was supposed to start a job that morning. Oh, why do I remember that? Insurance. Yep. I got a job. I got a job selling insurance. Um, and I ain't going to work. Yeah, you can't.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Okay. I ain't gonna be able to focus.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yeah, brother. Hey, look, fam. Hey, look, man. You know, I had to call him and I told him I said what the deal was. But actually, he called me. Because by the time, because of course I'm not thinking about that. By the time I realized it, he called me and I had to tell him what it was and what was going on. You know what I mean? Um, there are parts of me that really wish that I had that same um ability to get things out. You know what I'm saying? Like her mom's could. Right. You know, because there was like there was you know what I'm saying? Like, of course, there's a rally around mom. You know what I'm saying? But there was like this expectation of dad. And I'm like, I don't know why y'all got expectations of dad. Like, I wanna cry. You feel me? I wake up in the morning, it's time to cry. I kid you not, man. I got people at the crib. I think we'd have took like six shots. We haven't a time. I done forgot for a minute, and then it hit. It hit, and I'm in the bathroom breaking down, yeah. In front of people. Oh, that's not that's not that's not that's not that's not how I do things. But in that moment, I didn't care because this hurt. Like this, this real pain. You feel me? And it was pain that I had to go through and I had to sit in, but it built me, um, it built me. Right. Every experience build you to who you are. That was that was definitely a break-you down, build-you up kind of experience. Because what what that also set off was me moving away from home.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah, because you left right after that.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Because I never I never really lived away from home outside of college.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

And you know that's an hour up the road.

SPEAKER_01 35:11

You feel me? That's our road. You know, there were points when I was in service, you know what I mean? We're doing some training, and I'm living here, like I I think of what I did, what I did boot camp, what I did boot camp in South Carolina, and I did AIT in Missouri, in Fort Lindawood, Missouri. And then when I had to go to Bowlick officer school, I had to go back to Missouri for that. So Boston Woods. You feel me? And it wasn't, they didn't even have chicken out there, bro. There wasn't even no black people out there.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

We was eating Pizza Hut and Charlie's Chaha and Charlie's, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Charlie's sandwiches, you know what I mean? So it wasn't even really no black people out there. But outside of that, never, I never, I never lived away from home like that. Right. Where I was like full-time gone. Far, far, far. You can't really reach out and touch me if you need to. So um, I moved to New Orleans. It was a wild card place. Um, because the original plan, you know how it is. At that, at that time, you went to three places here, Dallas, or Atlanta. You know what I mean? So of course everybody's looking at those three cities, but you know, there's always a charm to to New Orleans, man. Always. And you know, it was still able to allow me to be in Louisiana, and that was an experience in itself because I was able to do so much, see so much, um, in such a short amount of time. Because I lived there for five years. Yeah, you know, but I was able to do a lot, bro. Like my first year moving to New Orleans, I went to WrestleMania.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

I've never been to WrestleMania.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

You you know that's right. That was that that was that little in a six-year-old, you know what I'm saying, that was happy with that.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

Sometimes you have to accomplish what your inner kid wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Because you got the bread to do it.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Because now you got the bread to do it. You ain't gotta act like it now.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

You ain't gotta ask nobody for it. Because in Shreveport, we don't get those kind of events. Now we did get WWE, yeah, but it was always like on a school night or something, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

If your parents are serious about education, you're not going to no event like that.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

And not even that, my people worked. No, that's true. Like, my people worked hard, you know what I'm saying? Like, mom, like moms and pops both worked very hard, and so it's funny seeing them now because they're able to enjoy like the fruits of their labor, and they can afford to take their time and you know, take some steps, some some they take, you know, when they're walking, right? Because they just worked hard for that, you know. They don't have to giddy, giddy, giddy, giddy, grind, grind, grind anymore because they they did that already, right? You know, and they set themselves up. So, you know, I don't know what the future's gonna look like in America in 20 years. Right. I don't we don't know what it's gonna look like, but what I do know is what I do know is that my parents really gave me some tools for success, and it really set me up, and they gave me a mentality and a mindset to succeed and to thrive because it doesn't matter what I've ever set out to do, I've always done it.

SPEAKER_02 37:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

Like every single thing that I've ever set out to do, no matter how much I hated it, no matter because I complain about doing something while doing it in the military. You feel me? I'm not gonna quit. Right. But I'm gonna talk my complain. You know what I mean? Because it's just it's just what it is. But you know, they always they gave me this never quit attitude, yeah. Whatever it is that you wish important, you know, because you know, you you gotta have some resilience about yourself to get through life is hard already as it is, exactly. You know, and there are days where I'm like, man, I really wish I could go back to being a kid again, because you know, you didn't really have to do much. Yeah, do nothing but show up and play. Just show up and play, man. You show up, go to school, go to practice, do your homework, come home, chill.

SPEAKER_02 38:28

Games, you feel me? Talk to your friends, do whatever.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Be on the phone, be on the phone, caking, singing your feet. I missed you at school today, bro. I missed you too. I'll see you tomorrow. You feel me? Don't forget to write that letter. Right. So, um, so yeah, but it definitely pushed me in a push me in a space where I had to become become a man.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

That's good, though. You know what I'm saying? So outside of like, of course, you know, our friends, our friend group always came together. Um, for anybody, really. It's so when you had those moments of isolation where it's like nobody was around, but those thoughts were hearing you or hitting you, how did you get past those moments? How did you get over the grief? Are you still working on it?

SPEAKER_01 39:08

Um The grief never left. It just reshapes itself. Okay. Because now, like I said earlier, she would have been 10 in October. So it went from, man, I lost my kid to what would my child be doing now? Right. What would life look like for her, for me, if my child was still here? You know what I'm saying? It went from that. Now, as far as having to um when those moments would hit, it's nothing you can do but sit in it. Because the thing was, I didn't have any, I didn't have a lot of people with me in New Orleans. Right. Like I did have a small community. I met a lot of, I met a few good people down there too, a lot of people who took care of me for sure. I did, I really did. Um but it wasn't like I was at home. Right. You know, because at home, a lot of people at home is home, and I grew up with some of them people. Right. Like some of the people, like, you know, that's you in like third grade, something like that. You know what I mean? We're adults now, so of course we had we we naturally have something going on because we know we've been around each other for so long, we've seen each other in so many seasons, you know. Um, so we were able to grow up like that. You just I just had to sit in it. And it was really uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

That's where the growth happens though.

SPEAKER_01 40:24

It was uncomfortable for a while. I think like those first I had to sit in it, but I tried to cope at the same time. Cope how you know how we do. Don't do you know how we do, man. Back in the gap, how we did. I'ma say this. I ain't missing it. I ain't miss a jump shot. I'ma say that. I ain't miss a jump shot at all. It was what it was. And when it came to alcohol, there had been part, there had been moments where I had kind of paused. Like I would say, so she passed in April. I think for the rest of May, I drank. I think I was drunk like every day in May. That's all I did was just trying to try to numb it. You're trying to forget about it. Right. You know, honestly, I'm trying to forget about it. I'm trying to act like this never happened.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

But it's not going nowhere.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Of course not. You know what I'm saying? Because there's something in that house that she had, used, played with something.

SPEAKER_02 41:16

There's some memory of it.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

There's something there, you're right. There's some kind of memory there. So you can't really do that. But having people around and being able to do that, it did kind of make it a little bit, I guess, tolerable. Okay. If that makes sense. Um I took a pause, I think that June. That pause, I took, I took a pause like for 45 days. I didn't drink at all. Because I needed some clarity, because I wasn't sober. Right. You feel me? Like it was every day on a wake up, like all day. Because I also wasn't working either.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

No, okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

You know what I mean? So I'm kind of just at home like chilling.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

I'm just chilling. You got nothing but thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 41:52

I don't have nothing but thoughts. You know what I'm saying? So I think at a point in time, I was like, okay, let me let me lock back in. Let me at least tap back into what the world is offering and things like that. Because I'm still in charge of somebody's child.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

You feel me? So even though they gave me a little leeway, it wasn't a lot of leeway because the business still needs to be done at that time. Um that was it was like a three-year cope. Okay. From I would say about the summer of 2017 to I say right before the pandemic. It was like a three-year cope.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:36

Man, I remember I saw you right that weekend before the pandemic started. I came to New Orleans. You came to New Orleans. And then that Monday they was like, shut everything down.

SPEAKER_01 42:43

Shut it down. And then I think I think we ended up coming out to Atlanta when y'all, when y'all lived out that way. Yeah. And we went to uh what was it, Blue Canton or something like that? Oh, yeah, we started.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

Atlanta never shut down. Atlanta north. Atlanta never shut down.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Atlanta said everybody outside. Outside doing it, bro. We didn't line up for the trap music. You know, they got the little crab spot around the corner. I'm like, okay, cool, we good. You know, it's it was what it was. It felt it felt Atlanta felt like home.

SPEAKER_02 43:09

It felt normal.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Atlanta felt normal and Houston felt normal.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Yeah, we're gonna shut down.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Dallas felt normal too. Because I think I had a mask on at Dallas. You know, in Louisiana, everybody had a mask on.

SPEAKER_02 43:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:19

I came over here and I got a mask on. Everybody look at me like I'm the problem. Why got that mask on? Why you got the mask on? I'm like, damn, it's not coming going outside. But um, yeah, man, but it was definitely something that that that um I I spent a lot of time sitting with. Okay. I spent a lot of time sitting with it, and it forced me to spend time with other things too. Okay, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 43:43

So, what are some positive things that you spend time with? And I really ask because I won. Like I met a guy this morning who lost his daughter three years ago. He's still struggling. So it's like those guys who are struggling because they lost their child, yeah. Like give them some practical things that they can just like spend good time, positive time with.

SPEAKER_01 44:00

I'm gonna be honest with you, bro. Is not really a It's not really universal positive. I found positive. The only thing that I can say is don't do it alone. That is nothing you can get through by yourself. Absolutely not. It's nothing. It is nothing. Because to be honest, bro, she passed in 2017. I didn't start going to therapy until 2021. Which is a long time. You know what I mean? Because at that point I started realizing how that grief started spilling over into other things. So I would say if there's something that you can do to make that easier, talk to somebody. Talk to somebody. Like I know, you know how we are about therapy. You know, but overall, that that was a that was another experience that took me to a another gear. Right. You know what I mean? Just because that was something that it wasn't conventional, you know, for me, especially, you know, for for where I come from. You want to therapy. Psycho. You alright? Like you good? Like, no, nigga, I'm sad. Right. Like I've been broken inside for years. Right. And I'm kind of realizing it now because you don't realize it as you're going through it. You just kind of just going through the motions, and you know, that's how it was. Like, and I was fine. I had my own spot, my own place. Like, I had a my I was, you know, that's when I kind of really started teaching, like when I really got into education. Because at first it just was something to do because I found out I had a baby. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like my first teaching job was literally, hey, I need a job, I got a kid on the way. Right. You know what I'm saying? So when I moved to New Orleans, it was a little bit more serious. And so it allowed me to one reset and figure out what is it that you want out of this. Right. You know what I mean? But it was also an opportunity for me to experience as well. You know, because like I said, there's nobody around. It's just me on an island by myself. And it was a great experience. You know what I mean? I I I definitely got nothing but love for the 504. It was literally a great city to live in. But um when it was time for me to go, it was time for me to go. Yeah. Because it is definitely a place where you can get comfortable. You know, you can get very comfortable. I mean, you'll love it.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

You ain't gonna hate it. You know what I'm saying? But if you want, if you want more, it is gonna be a little bit more difficult for you to get that more there. That's because people leave. Yeah, it's a very slow city. It's a bit it's not slow, like you know what I'm saying. Like it's slow in a sense like everybody is relaxed. Yeah, everybody chilling, everybody good, nobody really in a rush. It really is a getaway. Yeah, you know, relaxation, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

And good food.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

You can definitely unwind. You know, if you need you need a good 72-hour reset, I always say, go there.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

You gotta detox after that though. Yeah, we like I told you earlier, we went like a couple weeks ago, yeah, and I came back and I was just like, I can tell I've been eating a lot different in the last couple of days than I normally weed every day. Man, beignets, po boys. I was going with every pole boy. We pulled up, and in 30 minutes, I had no, I actually had a podcast interview when I uh pulled up. But right after that, bro, I pulled up back to uh my uh mother-in-law's house with a big poi and a 10-piece wing plate for 13 cents.

SPEAKER_01 47:18

Right?

SPEAKER_02 47:19

For 13 cents, because you know the fella who cheat. Fed the whole family, bro. You feel me? Off of that one purchase, it was about 20, 30 bucks.

SPEAKER_01 47:25

Man, that's what that's one thing I miss about uh New Orleans, man. You ate good, you ate good, you drank good, and you had a good time. Oh, absolutely. Like every it's always something, it's always a party, always some kind of function, always something going on. You know, but there came a point in time where I was no longer interested in partying. All right. Because I tell people I lived a full life before 30. We were having a time for a while. I had a blast. Like, you know, there was a lot that I did. Like I did a lot of traveling, I saw a lot, I did a lot, I accomplished a lot. Um, so by the time 30 hit, it was like we gotta make a pivot.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:05

And that's how we get to Dallas.

SPEAKER_02 48:07

Dallas was a that was a transition for you too. I didn't get it. Not gonna get into that, but it was a transition for sure.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

I mean, we can.

SPEAKER_02 48:15

I want to go back a little bit though, because um, you know, you said you you moved and you're making all these transitions, you know, you're you starting your teaching career. So did losing her like help you see the kids that you're working with differently.

SPEAKER_01 48:35

No, not really, because the kids that I work with I can see some of my classmates in them. Okay. What losing her did make make me realize though, is I'm human. I didn't feel human.

SPEAKER_02 48:49

Not Superman.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

You feel me? At that age, you can do whatever you want to do. You know what I'm saying? Like the the world is really your oyster. Yeah. And at that time it was. Yeah. You know, like before responsibilities. You know, before exactly. Before I see that pretty says, show up positive. I'm like, it is what it is. Like, why then free? If I want to go here, I'm gonna go here. If I wanna do this, like, yeah, you know what? It's the middle of the week. I want to go see the Mavericks play. Right. Yeah, I'll go book a room and and make that trip. You know, it was it wasn't anything to do, right? You know what I'm saying? And like I said, I lived a full life. I did the partying, I've done the adventures, like I've been here, been there. So um losing her. Sometimes it felt a little guilty. Why? Because I wouldn't have done that if she was here.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

Okay. You know, you would have been more like apparent first.

SPEAKER_01 49:45

Parent first, you know, responsibility first, because the one thing my parents always prioritize was that you know, delayed gratification. You know what I mean? Which is important, fellas. Which is very important. You feel me? Because you don't understand the importance of it until you actually have to do it. Yeah, you know, it's like damn. Start seeing the benefits of it. Come on now, it's like, damn, I really want these shoes right now. But I need to hold on to this bread because I know I need to do XYZ. But when you do XYZ, you can end up, you know, you end up figuring that part out and you end up actually getting that and also what else you want it. Right. You know what I'm saying? So it's basically just kind of just you know, prioritizing what's real what really matters. And I would have prioritized her because that was what really mattered to me. Like, you know, I had to tell people like you finna come over here because I ain't going outside tonight.

SPEAKER_02 50:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:27

And so it went from going out. What's the play, where we at tonight, to I'm in tonight, but if y'all want to come over here, y'all can. You know what I'm saying? Because I'm at home with the kid, like it's cool. Like, I'm not, I'm not because I'm not missing much.

SPEAKER_02 50:41

You're not missing. You gotta think. The streets ain't got much, bro.

SPEAKER_01 50:43

You know what I'm saying? I mean, you know, what was that? I got to college in 2010, graduated in 15. Come on, man. Like, you know, I it that was a that was an experience in itself. It was. And so Graham was a time. And so I think I graduate, I come home. And then when I come home, it's kind of still something like that, but it's not as easily. It's not as easy as it was because she's pregnant too. You know what I'm saying? So I can't go that far if I'm gonna go somewhere, I'm gonna go do something.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Um, and then when the baby got here, I'm like, yeah, I'm cool. I got still every now and then, you know, of course, you know, because her mom or my mom, you know, or my grandma or her grandma, like where my grandbaby at? Right. You know what I'm saying? That was one of the beautiful things that I was able to see about community because we had a lot of love.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

I did.

SPEAKER_01 51:34

Layton had a lot of love, bro. Like, you know, both of our both sides of our family, because that was the first grandchild.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 51:40

You know what I'm saying? Well, it was my mother's first grandchild because I had siblings with my with pops, you know what I'm saying? But you know, that was my mother first, my mother's first grandchild and her mother's first grandchild. So, you know, that was a big deal for both of them. Oh, come on, spoil. You feel me? And she was a good baby, so she, you know, she, you know, people didn't mind. Yeah. You know, even there were times where um where Tiff and Joycelyn would drive from Ramblin', you know, in the middle of the week, like, hey, I'm gonna come to the street, we're gonna watch the baby, y'all get some rest, type deal. Like, we had a lot of love, we had a lot of care, we had a lot of support just through that whole process. Um, but you know, takes a community. It it took a community, it really takes a community, it really took a community, and even with the community, I said, I totally understand why you're mad at that man for giving you $200 in the last six months again. You feel me? Because another thing that tripped me out was I didn't know how much uh formula was until I had a baby.

SPEAKER_02 52:41

I didn't know how much any of it was going up, bro.

SPEAKER_01 52:43

I didn't know how much any of that stuff costs because at the time I'm thinking like a can or two maybe last you for the month. They like, bro, that can might be gone in the next two days. Oh, absolutely. I'm like, nah, I don't want to hear that. And so I went ahead, ignored everybody what they were talking about, bought the two cans. I'm like, damn, I gotta go back to the store. You feel me? And at that time, this is 2016, I think a month's worth of formula was like 180.

SPEAKER_03 53:10

Yeah, that's how you feel me.

SPEAKER_02 53:12

So I'm like because Mason was born right after she passed. And I remember I had that's when you went from her losing her, and I went into um my dad.

SPEAKER_01 53:21

Yeah, yeah. And you and you have a son too. Yeah, so now you're looking like, oh, I got a boy, gotta get it together.

SPEAKER_02 53:26

You feel me? You know, it really didn't hit me, it hit me when Mason was born because it was like I'm a father, but I and I think in that space, we had to give ourselves grace because like I you said when she first got here, you was kind of still, kind of, still doing your thing. Yeah. But yeah, eventually a part of you knew, like, okay, I need to be at home with my child.

SPEAKER_01 53:43

Yeah, it was like that for me and Mason. It was pretty much, it was pretty much immediate because I I can say this now because so much time has passed. I turned up the night before the baby got here. Talking about you, like old you. Like, and it wasn't one of those things like I purposely went to go do it. Well, okay, let me take that back. I purposely went to go do it, but it wasn't the intent. I was supposed to go home and get some clothes, right? Which I did. Which I did, but I didn't tell anybody outside of my family that we're in the hospital.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 54:12

Everybody knows that she's pregnant, but nobody knew she was in the hospital and that we were about to have this baby.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:17

Because we still had at least a little five weeks to go. So my partners we they had the little spot. Pull up. I got a I got a uh I got a fifth of 20 grand. You feel me?

SPEAKER_02 54:29

Oh, PTSD from that one. Hold on.

SPEAKER_01 54:32

Mind you, this is about 12:30 that morning. I don't get back to the hospital until about five. Now, when I walk in, she still asleep. So I'm trying to tiptoe in. Don't work. And I think that was like one of the few times where she just got off. And you know she don't say much. She don't.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Skylar real cool.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Sheep. Boy, she cut me deep. I mean, I gotta take it because she's not wrong.

SPEAKER_02 54:58

Right.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

Like, bruh, the baby is coming, bro. Like, she like, are she was like, is it that deep? Are you that childish? In my head, I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:06

Absolutely. I'm 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 55:07

Yeah, I'm real childish right now. You know what I'm saying? But it was something. When they held that baby up in the air, it was like, oh, it clicked.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

She had to tell me. That's the moment when it typically does click. Yeah. Because it's like, oh.

SPEAKER_01 55:20

She ain't had to tell me no more after that. I said, you know what? You're right, I got you. And we we we both, you know what I'm saying? When you know, of course, you know, when you're looking through the glass and stuff like that, you're looking at your baby, my baby all twitchy and stuff like that. I'm like, that's mine. It all made sense in that moment. Oh, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So I immediately went from outside, you know, high boy, you know what I'm saying, to Pops. Like overnight. And I needed that. Right. I also needed a girl too. That I needed a girl first. That changed a lot. You feel me? I did not want a girl first. I wanted a boy. But I needed that girl first because I needed that, I needed that compassion to develop.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Yeah. Because you you look at women differently when you meet your daughter for the first time.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

You do. You look at them completely differently. And you, you know, of course you look at mom and granny, all of them, of course. But nobody's your baby girl. Nobody tops your baby girl, bro. It's like, boy, I'm gonna hurt you over this. Like you feel me? Like, I'm gonna hurt you for real. You try to do something to mine. On gang. It automatically was like playing scenarios in your head. You feel me? I'm over here making sure, hey, go wash your hands before you come home with my kid, type deal. You know what I mean? I wasn't trying to, I wasn't trying to, I wasn't gonna play. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, I was gonna make sure that, you know, like that was already because I I had I had people that did that for me. Yeah, my parents did that for me. You know what I'm saying? They made sure that I was set up, made sure I was straight. You know what I mean? Now, of course, I was a boy, so things were different because I was a boy, and it would have looked different if I was a girl for sure. Oh, absolutely. You know what I'm saying? Because sometimes my parents were just like, You gonna do something? Right. Like, I guess you know, I figured out, you know what I mean? But you know, I knew with what I had experienced with some of that, I would have never wanted that for her. Because I know I could have done more if it would have looked different. I need you to do the most as you possibly can, right? You know, and that was the that was the thing, but you know, and it's still that, but you know, it'll be that whenever I have another child, gender won't matter. I don't care if it's a boy, if it's a girl, I'll be happy.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

You can't help to be grateful in a situation where you are having another one after losing one because it's like I really I was a parent, I lost it, but now I have another opportunity. But we you know, we always say things happen for a reason. Um and so, but us in closing, man, like with you going through what you went through with her, um, what would be your advice or what would be your message to the fellas who are have lost a child, or even the ones who are getting ready to be a father and are nervous about it.

SPEAKER_01 57:59

For for my for my for my guys who are getting ready to become parents, I would all I would say lock in with that woman more. Be there. Because another thing, bro, I didn't understand postpartum. None at all. I probably would have been a little bit nicer if I would have understood postpartum a little bit. Sorry, Skylar. You know what I'm saying? I'm so like, and I've I've apologized so many times, bro, but because I really I can't be I can be a motherfucker sometimes. Oh I'm saying like I it is there, you know it don't come out much, but it can be there. But I would say just lock in with that woman more and just be there for because bonding with her is gonna eventually cause you to bond with that baby harder. Absolutely, you know what I'm saying? Creates a family unit for sure. Your spiritual side gotta be right, you know what I mean? Stay stay in church, stay in church and find find an find a healthy outlet. You know what I mean? Because mine was outside, right? I didn't need that. Not a good outlet, ain't nothing out there. Not a good outlet. Ain't nothing open late at night besides legs and uh waffle houses a lot of stress at that age too. Right. I'm working book owls, you know, I'm a government slave, you know what I'm saying? And that's its own little mission in itself, and I'm also trying to do what I need to do at home, I would have done that a lot differently. You know what I'm saying? So I would say if you can if you can stay in the gym, stay in church, stay close to your partner, and I would honestly even say get you somebody to talk to professionally, right? You know what I'm saying, to talk you through that because it's new for you too. Yeah, it's new for her as it is for you. And as she's trying to navigate and figure out what she what she what her body is doing, neither one of y'all understand that. Right. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 59:47

Especially if it's the first time for sure.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

Especially if it's the first time, you know what I'm saying? And give yourself some grace and be patient with yourself and be patient with your partner too. You know, I could I could leave it at that because all of those things, you know, is is is what is what God is with us anyway. Absolutely, right? You know what I'm saying? So you know, and they say, you know, try to love your woman like Christ, love the church. It's hard. It's hard. It's hard, but it's kind of what you gotta do. It's worth it, though. It is hard. It is because it's it's it's it's it's all about your long term. You know, your long-term. You got a plan for the future. You gotta plan for the future, man. You know, your kids treat you the way that you treated them. And your spouse does too. Oh, yeah. Your family is a mirror of you. You feel me? If you if your spouse hates you, then hey. Them kids probably don't like you either. Them kids probably won't like you either. You know, and there's nothing worse than a man growing up and your kids and your spouse hate you. Yeah, yeah, that's a hard battle to battle.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:47

For sure. But man, I I definitely want to uh say thank you for coming on. It's all good. Um this is actually when I my very first podcast I was on was his. So this is a full circle moment for me. Five years ago? Yeah, we switching seats now. Well, we were remote when we did it, but we switched the seats now, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:05

Five or six years ago. It was 2020 or 2021.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:07

Yeah, I think it was like 2021. I remember. Um, but man, you you heard his story. Um, you know, losing a kid isn't easy. Um, like I told you guys before, I lost a miscarriage. But he actually got to sit with his child for six months and create that bond. I would not wish that on my worst enemy. I remember him going through this, and I remember being there. Um, that's why community is important. That's why just having a good friend group who loves you no matter what, um, is important. So don't try to do this battle by yourself, man. Make sure you find your community, your group, and it may not be people you know, you might come into a community, right? Yeah, um, but definitely find somebody to pour into you, um, even in your dark times, or even people you could pour into if you haven't experienced it, right? Um, but until next time, we will see you later. Peace.