The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Welcome to "The Vine" with Joe and Katie Devine, where we embark on a journey through the twists and turns of life, love, and faith in our formative twenties. Join us as we candidly share our triumphs, trials, and everything in between, inviting you into our world of learning and growing together. Through heartfelt conversations, we navigate the complexities of marriage, relationships, and spirituality, reflecting on our missteps and milestones with humility and grace.
As branches of the same divine Vine, we embrace the power of community and the guidance of faith, aiming to inspire and uplift our listeners as we collectively journey toward greater understanding and connection. Welcome to a space where vulnerability meets wisdom and where, together, we discover the beauty of being intertwined in the vine of life.
The Vine with Joe & Katie Devine
Your Daily Catholic Survival Guide
Have you ever found yourself spiritually exhausted while just trying to make it through another day? In this deeply practical episode, we peel back the layers of Catholic spirituality to reveal what daily faith really looks like when you're juggling work, relationships, and yes—even pregnancy and moving stress.
We start with a revolutionary perspective shift: beyond Mass attendance and sacraments (which are vital), what are the simple, tangible practices that help Catholics navigate everyday challenges? Katie introduces Maslow's hierarchy of needs as a spiritual foundation—acknowledging that addressing our physical and mental health creates the necessary space for spiritual growth. This isn't separate from our faith journey; it's an essential component God designed into our human experience.
Joe emphasizes the power of perspective, reminding us that many of the things that overwhelm us aren't as permanent or important as they seem in the moment. We discuss how surrounding yourself with positive people fundamentally changes your outlook, while negative relationships can subtly pull you down. One particularly practical suggestion we explore is maintaining ongoing conversation with God throughout your day—whether through structured morning prayer, adoration streaming on your TV, or even texting prayers to yourself under God's contact name!
The conversation turns deeply personal as we share our own struggles with maintaining faith amid life's distractions. Katie reflects on her pregnancy journey and the physical realities that have made spiritual practices more challenging, while Joe opens up about how daily examination of conscience has transformed his self-awareness. We wrap up with an unexpected revelation: creating a "joy inventory" can counter our natural tendency to focus on negative experiences.
What makes this episode truly special is our willingness to admit that Catholic living isn't about perfection—it's about progress. We are broken people capable of extraordinary love only through God's grace. Ready to transform your daily spiritual practice? Join us for this conversation that will leave you with practical tools and renewed hope.
An exclusive from Dery Media Podcasts. Explore diverse perspectives and enrich your knowledge at derymedia.com. Telling stories that matter, sparking meaningful discussions.
Hello everybody.
Speaker 2:Hello, pregnant Katie.
Speaker 1:Wow, yes, I am pregnant.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I didn't even know how to respond to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, hello.
Speaker 1:How's it going?
Speaker 2:No, I'm Joe.
Speaker 1:And I'm Katie.
Speaker 2:And welcome back to the Vine.
Speaker 1:this, this is your idea I know, I know, I just wanted to like facilitate normal conversation. I just I need to have like a little bit in the beginning.
Speaker 2:Then I can play the intro music and it fades in and out, and then I'll have to do it every time, because I refuse to just copy and paste from our previous episode.
Speaker 1:He's making fun of the way that I edit and, to be honest, I know there's probably a more efficient way to do things. I'm just not smart enough to figure it out.
Speaker 2:My system works. It does work. Your system does work. Give yourself more credit. You are smart enough to figure it out, you just don't feel like it.
Speaker 1:I don't, I don't feel like it yeah that's fine, such is life. Well, we hope everyone's doing okay. Welcome back to another week. Another episode, not week.
Speaker 2:Yeah, whatever it is.
Speaker 1:Another episode. This one took some thinking.
Speaker 2:It did, it did take some thinking. I thought so. Yeah, it took about 20 minutes of thinking outside old Europe. Uh, bakery, that was fun.
Speaker 1:That was a lot of fun, but before we go into how much thought we put into this Eating a bloated cheesecake. You were bloated, not the cheesecake.
Speaker 2:Both. We were both bloated. Um, let's get into our peaks and pits shall we wow you actually, I know, okay, we need to like, we need to stop the patterns, okay, I like it, stop the cycle break, the bad cycle, the cycles, um. So then you have to go first, because I always go first that's not true.
Speaker 2:I always go first that's not true either, but I'll go first. Um, I would say my peak in the past couple weeks, I would just say, is our house, is our new house is getting ready, um, and being built and that's just really exciting and like it's just down the road from us so we get to like keep looking at it. Um, and it's just been fun, like it's been really exciting to like watch the progress and how quickly like they get stuff done. I will also say I have another peak that probably is more important, what?
Speaker 2:we had our 20 week anatomy scan oh, and we got to see the baby, and that was also really cool.
Speaker 1:That was really really fun and I felt her for the first time yeah, that was oops. I said oh, it's okay, it's not a secret okay, it's not a secret.
Speaker 2:We're having a girl she's a girl yeah, um, but yeah, it was, I felt her and that was really neat, um, and like seeing, we saw her little footprint.
Speaker 1:So tiny katie's, like she has my nose and I'm like she's not even fully developed, yet how do we know? We're just a little human. It's crazy yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'd say those those are my two peaks is watching the development of both our new house and our new baby. Yeah, pit, I would say. I mean it was good, we needed it to be done. But yesterday I was just really tired at the end of the day because we've just started the process of moving, of like clearing stuff out and packing, and like it's one of those things where, like you watch like a, a sitcom or like a you know a drama, and you're like why is this couple fighting when they're moving? Like there's no need, no need to do that, and we like didn't really even fight, but it's just so easy to get my.
Speaker 1:My hands are on his neck. I was ready to strangle him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she was no, but like I was napping on the couch, we were napping on the couch, but like it's so easy. It is easy, like I would say, moving, or I'm trying to think of like other places where this is really common, but like I feel like moving is a big one where, like it's just easy to get frustrated with each other it is because it's just a frustrating situation yeah, like I found myself getting like frustrated at you and me for like literally no reason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like when you're like, when the garage is like so messy, it just feels like digging into your own Like it just feels like a reflection of your brain, you know, and you're like.
Speaker 2:I don't want to clean up my brain. Do you mean me in particular?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no, no. That's why I get so flustered when the house is really cluttered, because it feels like a reflection of how I'm feeling and I don't like that. It just stresses me out more. So that's why I feel like we avoid cleaning the garage, because it's like who wants to clean up their own mess.
Speaker 2:We're very out of sight, out of mind people.
Speaker 1:Yes, and we don't see the garage.
Speaker 2:And my car doesn't get parked in the garage and you don't really think about it when you pull in and out.
Speaker 1:Nope, I think nothing about it actually.
Speaker 2:And growing up, neither of us really had access to our garages or used them, so yeah, well, anyways. What's your peak and pit?
Speaker 1:Um, I'll start with my pit. I've just been like, and I'm grateful for it. I've just been like, and I'm grateful for it. I've just been feeling like the physical changes. This is the first week that I've been like, oh okay, like. I can't deny that I am pregnant like before and I know this is not everyone's experience and I felt very, very lucky to not like to feel very minimal symptoms like yeah, you did not get morning sickness.
Speaker 2:You did not have cravings.
Speaker 1:I mean like mild, weird food. Things were like nothing, that was like hindering, like I just loved to eat. That's not new. So like for the most, like the first half. I guess this is like we just finished the first half of my pregnancy, but I was just in denial. I was like this isn't real, like you couldn't feel the baby. I didn't feel any denial, I was like this isn't real. You couldn't feel the baby. I didn't feel any different. I felt bloated, but that's not uncommon either.
Speaker 1:And then all of a sudden, we hit the weekend and I was like whoa, I can't digest. It's taking me 48 hours to digest this sourdough bread that I ate in its entirety.
Speaker 2:It was a tough evening for you it was horrible.
Speaker 1:I woke up at 3 o'clock in the morning and my stomach was like yeah, we're not done with this. We still got some work to do, so it's just. It's just really hitting me like that. I'm feeling those things and I'm grateful to feel that way, but it was an adjustment and, um, that's also kind of my peak Like. It just feels more, more real, you know, like yeah feeling her kick.
Speaker 2:Like you, being able to feel her kick, like seeing her in person not in person, but on the screen was like really, really cool it is funny though we were, we literally just came from brunch with some friends and, uh, they have a baby as well and they the you and, uh, his wife were complaining about not, um, like the husband's not being patient enough to feel like the kicks and stuff, and I definitely just have to wait.
Speaker 2:Just keep your hand there, it'll happen and I'm like no, I felt it and I'm kind of shocked like I'm only.
Speaker 1:I'm 20 weeks now and maybe this isn't like abnormal, but I thought it was going to take a little bit longer to feel like her activity and like I mean I could see her kick from the outside a couple days ago and I was like that was neat crazy, um. So that was a big peak and pit and then a side peak is uh, I've been a part of like a. I mean I've been a part of like women's groups for a while, like there's a like a vibrant community here in greenville, um, but vibrant a new community, like a new group came out with, like actually some of our new album drop.
Speaker 1:A new group was formed. Can you stop with the bodily noises?
Speaker 2:I really can't, honestly, I really can't joe.
Speaker 1:It's that time of year where Joe, like, cannot clear his throat.
Speaker 2:I'm just screaming, coughing.
Speaker 1:But a new group was formed and it's like a good like a couple of our close friends that we've been friends with for a while. So it's cool to like see them all come together and then like a couple other new girls and so we've just started that a couple weeks ago and it's been really nice and refreshing and I think the biggest reason why I've like really enjoyed it is that all these girls like live really close to each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and close to us.
Speaker 1:And close to us, so it's not like a 30-minute drive, which I'm willing to do, but it's a lot less likely. I'll go. But it's a lot less likely, I'll go.
Speaker 2:But it's like a 15-minute drive. It's a lot less likely that you'll go if it's a 30-minute drive.
Speaker 1:It's true, and so the convenience and the quality community. It's a lot of fun. So that's been a big peak lately.
Speaker 2:We love that. So, Katie, our episode topic today is we haven't nailed the title. Yes, correct.
Speaker 1:That's why I asked you you always do that and we're always like oh, I don't, I actually haven't, I haven't asked chat gpt yet no, we do not support ai.
Speaker 2:We definitely don't use chat gpt.
Speaker 1:Okay, I'm not gonna lie, they come up with clever names they do come up with clever names but something along the lines of your daily catholic survival guide yes I kind of like that.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll go with that yeah, and I think you and I are going to have very different answers on this yeah like I think you're going to have. This is actually one where I think your answers will probably sound a lot more like mine, and mine will sound a lot more like you, in the sense that I feel like you're going to have a lot of very like actionable practical things and I'm going to have a lot of very like actionable practical things, and I'm going to have a lot of like, mental Like lofty, yeah, yeah, but we each, we each figured we'd come up with five and I think it's this I would say is more so.
Speaker 2:This is more about like the day to day, so like, of course, like you know, going to mass and the Eucharist is super important and making sure that you know you're praying all the time, but this is more of like, what does that actually look like? Or what's the day-to-day mindset you need to have, trying to just live a Catholic life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then, like this kind of went from like a very like lofty idea, Like at first we wanted to talk about different spirituality, and then I wanted to you did and I was like to be honest, I've just never like put a name to my spirituality, like there are some orders that you will choose.
Speaker 1:And you choose to do Ignatius spirituality or you choose to do the Franciscan way and like it's really cool that we have all those options. But when you're just like us, like just going to church, trying to like be good Catholics, trying to raise your family in the church, like you kind of find your own thing and there may or may not be a spirituality that you like are diehard, a part of Correct, or you might do a little bit of everything and that's totally fine.
Speaker 2:Well, I think what and I think we're going to do a podcast topic on this when we do maybe some more research and think a little bit more about it but the idea is that there's not necessarily like what spirituality that you belong to, but how do you experience your faith and how to kind of get in touch with that on your own self. Because, like I think you're very self-aware of your faith journey and I think hearing you deconstruct your own faith journey is helpful and it allows people to like realize, like, oh, I'm on a very different journey, but I can deconstruct it in the same way, and like that brings you to, like you said that you've never really thought about what type of spirituality you have, which I think is fair, but only in only in the sense that, like you don't know what saint you would put it with, but like you have thought about your spirituality a lot, you know yeah, that's true but anyway, this is.
Speaker 1:This is not that podcast, this is a different podcast no, but I guess I brought that up was like that's kind of a component of like what we're talking about, and although we we narrowed it down to like the daily, like survival guide, because every day is a journey, like we're constantly on a journey, but I also feel like it kind of correlates to like how do you handle big life changes, whether it's hard, whether it's good, like do you have like a survival guide, extra plan, yeah, bonus, or like how do you amplify your survival guide? Or how do you handle that and like include god in that journey, and I just feel like that's something we can maybe touch on a little bit too I think we can touch on it I think we can I think we can too.
Speaker 2:What's your number one?
Speaker 1:well, I was gonna have you go first, because this was your idea okay, I'm just pretending to be sassy, let me pull it up all right, you actually wrote it down.
Speaker 2:Of course, I didn't I was gonna forget if I didn't write it down. Do you have five things? I do, I do not believe you all right. Number one, and this is why, again, this is why I said I think katie will have more, because this is just how you operate, you're like in your actual day-to-day spirituality. You'll have more concrete things. I'll have more. I don't know mindsets, I don't know how we're gonna phrase my.
Speaker 1:Number one is perspective okay, I see I had no idea what direction you were going to take this.
Speaker 2:That's why I wanted you to go first so, but I also think it's important to have in this like like a different.
Speaker 2:I know I also have a different approach the morning prayer but I was just interested in how so mine and this is number one, and I would say this is important just in every day-to-day decision making is perspective? Um, because I think it's just so easy to get overwhelmed with the minutiae of day-to-day life, like we don't even have a kid yet. But I imagine you know, and we already can get overwhelmed with, like you know, hey, have you done the grocery shopping? The lawn needs to get mowed, the dogs need to be fed, like there's so much going on. When you have, even you know, especially when you have kids at home or things like that, it's like, oh, my gosh, like you know, the baby needs to be fed, changed, the house needs to be cleaned, we've got company coming over this weekend.
Speaker 2:Did you go to the grocery store? Did you make? And so it's easy to get bogged down in those things. Right, I think when you have the perspective of like we're here to love God, we're here to enjoy our lives, to be present, that perspective, I think, is important because it's easy to also, I think, just focus on the stuff that sucks. It's easy to focus on oh, the country is so divided right now. I just don't feel like I have any friends right now. I feel like my relationships are lacking. I'm unhappy with my spouse at home.
Speaker 2:It's easy to get bogged down in that Some of those are real problems that need to be addressed, but it's important to have the perspective that we, like we're only on this earth to you know to do one thing and that's to love God and then hopefully get to heaven. Yeah, you know and how that meant. You know there's multiple ways to do that. And the other thing I think you know and we've talked about this probably on the podcast before, but like I think our generation feels like the quote unquote adulting decisions are so permanent, like people are terrified, like oh well, if I, if I date this person, then I just have to marry them, you know?
Speaker 2:or if I, if I buy this house and I can't afford it, then like I, then I'm, I'm going to go to jail and die you know, it's like. No, like there's's always. I think that's one of the things that um it can is easily missed is like there's always other options. There's always always more um. I know I'm talking a lot about this, but I do think it's one of the most important things.
Speaker 2:sorry, can I say one more thing? Yeah, so the other reason I think perspective is important is because you can also, like I know we are experiencing a lot and me personally, I've really started struggling with, like comparing myself to my friends and my peers, especially when it comes to finances and houses, and you know how much do you have saved and what's your 401k and everything like that. And I think that it's easy to think like oh, like, like I always need more or I'm not, I'm not good enough, and I think the perspective that can come in and can show you like no, you have plenty, you know, and there's, there's. I think everyone has plenty, even those of us with that feel like they have nothing like there's so much in the world that that, if you have the right perspective, you can see and can bring into your life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, someone out there is dying to have what we have you know exactly, there's somebody out there who wishes and prays for this, and we just get to live it yeah um.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I think that we are just naturally optimistic people, though that's fair we have natural optimistic perspectives and I feel like to tell somebody who I realize I think just like working in the workplace and being in the real world, that that's a little hard to find. Like you're actually more likely to run into people who have pessimistic perspectives because, guess what, like life is hard. So, like, how would you, how would you like, give somebody advice or tell them to change their perspective, when, like, that's the only perspective they've ever had?
Speaker 2:I mean, at a certain point you are who, you are right, so I'm not going to sit here and say that like there's. There's no way to change that. I think the number one thing is what are you focusing on?
Speaker 2:yeah right, like, what are you actually spending your time? And and how are you spending that time? Are you only, you know, are you a pessimistic person? Because you're already inclined to be pessimistic? And then the only thing you're watching is youtube shorts about how the country's falling apart and how jen's, you know, like um, I was watching somebody and they said he was like making fun of people who are like posting memes and TikToks and stuff about like our age, childhood of like look at what they took from them and it's like a picture of like an Uncrustable and like a Capri Sun. Or like the you know all the fun stuff that we used to do in kindergarten, first grade. Like the you know finger painting in the Christmas trees, and it's like like this guy had a kindergarten. He's like no dude, they're still doing all of it. Like they're still having a great time. Like they're going to see the minecraft movie, just the same way that we go see you know delilo and stitch the first version of the movie you know or like like there's.
Speaker 2:You're just not a child anymore. You're choosing to focus on what you feel like was taken from you or that's no longer there, instead of focusing on what's around you. You know, if you constantly and that's one of my later topics, but like if you're just constantly surrounding yourself with negativity, then of course you're going to be pessimistic. So I guess my my real piece of advice to somebody who feels like the only thing they can do is be pessimistic surround yourself with more optimistic content.
Speaker 1:Yeah, eliminate the pessimism.
Speaker 2:And like we, just all of us are just little content goblins, right, we're all just consuming content, and negative content plays a lot better than positive content.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people remember their trauma.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or it's so traumatic that you forget it and suppress it, but, like the negative things that happen in your life, you carry with you. It's actually. We talked about this at our women's group last week.
Speaker 2:Oh really.
Speaker 1:Last Tuesday. How, like the way that you grow up, regardless of whether or not you had a good childhood and good parents, you remember the things that you didn't like about it, about your childhood 100. Like that sticks out to you more than maybe like the one time that your mom was like you know what.
Speaker 2:Let's have dessert for dinner like best day ever, but you didn't remember that yeah, or like you remember the like, like I remember you know an embarrassing, awkward moment in middle school and that like sticks in my head. No one else thinks about it, only me. And I don't remember like the hundred times I had like an awesome day at school. Yeah, you know, and I can't even actually remember.
Speaker 1:I remember that one horrible day that you were bullied or whatever it was. And I think, from a faith perspective, like it's really hard to maintain optimism when you don't see like the good outcomes.
Speaker 2:No, no, no, go ahead. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 1:I mean the resurrection, like that is our hope. That is what we get to look forward to, but you can't get there without the crucifixion.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, and I think kind of honestly, actually tying along with that, and this is again going back to perspective, if you always say that you are the victim of the circumstances of your life, you're going to be pessim. Your life, you're going to be pessimistic and you're going to be unhappy and you're not going to be prepared for the the day to day grind.
Speaker 2:You're just not if everything, if you only have an external locus of control and nothing is your fault, you're not responsible for anything and you are always playing the victim. It's just not going to end well and that's not to to say. There, of course, are people who are victims and are victims of their circumstances, but that you shouldn't let that change your perspective.
Speaker 1:you know because you can still make good out of this situation.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent. There are so many amazing stories of people who could very easily have claimed, you know, been a victim of their circumstances, but decided to overcome it because they had the perspective to see that they are more than just a victim. They're more than just the sum of the you know their circumstances.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:You're number one.
Speaker 1:Number one for me I don't know how to phrase this like well, but like what do you need? And by that I mean like Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:I know you're impressed. I remember that Because I don't think surviving is possible without addressing your basic survival needs Of course. And like you're not going to be able to understand, like what God is calling you for that day if you don't eat breakfast in the morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you would never steal a loaf of bread until you're watching your child go hungry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly so. Like number one, I think is like addressing, okay, in a situation that you feel like you need to survive or you're discerning through something or whatever, am I like? Am I hungry? Like, am I feeling really emotional Cause I'm hungry? If so, let me go eat something. Um, am I? Have I not been outside because it's been depressing? And haven't gotten any vitamin C, like maybe I should go for a walk before I make this really big life decision.
Speaker 2:That's a great point.
Speaker 1:Have I been exercising regularly. Like just addressing your physical needs are so important. Like God created us as humans and like he knows that we operate that way and human, it's humanly impossible for us to function past like the human need before, like before getting to you know a relationship with God.
Speaker 2:We would never have been able to dive into the mysteries of the world, understanding our faith, understanding our God as much as we do today, not that we even come close to truly understanding him. But these revelations wouldn't have happened if, like some dude, didn't start farming so that we could you know, so that St Thomas Aquinas, instead of having to literally plow the fields every day, could think about religion you know like it and I think that that's that's a little bit of god revealing himself in the world.
Speaker 2:Through that too, you know, like and it's an amazing grace and like that's that's a beauty that comes with, like technological advancement and stuff like that is that our needs are beginning. There's a lot more ways to fulfill our needs that we then can come back and say, okay, my physical needs have been taken care of. Now, now I have to take care of my spiritual needs.
Speaker 1:Well, I feel like there's a step before that too Physical needs and then like my mental health.
Speaker 2:Where's that at?
Speaker 1:Like have I addressed my mental needs? Like, have I my emotional needs? And then that's when I think we can get to like the spiritual aspect of things.
Speaker 2:Yes, and I think that people think that if I'm addressing my mental health, that they that is not I don't know what the word like that's not faith-based. Like that's not I'm not, you know, working on my spirituality if I'm working on my mental health, but that's very much the case. Like God wants you to be in a healthy mental state and in a healthy physical state.
Speaker 1:it's a very real thing and I feel like I mean with him it's becoming more popular now to address, because that was always the mindset forever. But even my own spiritual director was like there's going to be times that I'm going to tell you this is not a me thing, this is a therapist thing, and at that point I will tell you you need to bring this to like a therapist or counseling session because that's not a spiritual thing. We need to work through 100, which I think is really important to separate, like you shouldn't go to spiritual direction expecting for therapy and you shouldn't go to therapy, expecting for spiritual guidance and don't go to the doctor expecting them to help you work through your marriage yeah, exactly exactly like they are.
Speaker 2:They are unless they're just like a good person for different things.
Speaker 1:But I just feel like that's something we forget because all of it gets so mixed together. But like maybe your marriage is feeling really rocky and you don't understand why. But have you addressed?
Speaker 2:our marriage is feeling great. By the way, we've talked a lot about rocky marriages.
Speaker 1:We're doing great in our marriage um, like, or just like you're like a relationship with somebody. Have you addressed maybe the fact that this person that you were really close with has not addressed one of these things? Maybe they're speaking out of an SOS signal as opposed to this is an actual offense to your heart.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I think that I can agree more with that, so that's my number one.
Speaker 1:See where you're at I like that are you surviving or are you thriving?
Speaker 2:and I think like you could even phrase it like um are you meeting your needs?
Speaker 1:yeah, like, what do you need first? I?
Speaker 2:can't you pulling out maslow's hierarchy of needs? Do you know what the highest point in the pyramid is? This would be fun if we actually just broke down, if I had you break down maslow's hierarchy.
Speaker 1:Isn't it like self. You're right there, Self-fulfilling self.
Speaker 2:Self-actualization.
Speaker 1:That's it. That's the word. I would have been a psychologist. If I wasn't a nurse, you would have been a good psychologist, or a news reporter, or yeah.
Speaker 2:Katie came over. This is a little break. Katie came out yesterday while I was mowing the lawn at this saturday at like 10 30 am and she said how do I turn the news on? I was like what she's like? Oh, I just want to have the news on and I'm like the news isn't on it. I mean you could turn on like fox news but like local news isn't on. At 10 30 on saturday.
Speaker 1:I just want to know um.
Speaker 2:My second one surround yourself with good people okay with that.
Speaker 2:And I think it's pretty self-explanatory. We used to do this and again, I'm sure sorry if I repeat myself a million times over these podcasts but we used to do this activity. I used to do it a lot on confirmation retreats, where I would stand up on a chair or a bench and I would have a volunteer come over and I would say all right, let's, you know, grasp, grasp hands. And I would say I'm going to try and pull you up onto this bench or this chair and you know, I'm not the biggest guy in the world, so it's very hard for me with one hand to just pull somebody up onto a bench, right, and then I would. They would get back off the bench and then I'd say, okay, I need you to pull me off this bench. And it was super easy for them to pull me off a bench because I'm unsteady, I'm unstable, I'm on a higher position. It's very easy to just pull somebody down and the symbolism of it is it's so much easier to drag someone down than it is to pull them up.
Speaker 2:And if you're surrounded by people who are negative, they don't have good perspective.
Speaker 2:They're, you know, constantly saying what's wrong with the world, they're constantly unhappy that's going to drag you down you. You do manifest into the people you're around. It's just the case, like you know, I'm sure everybody's seen married couples us us included who just begin to act like the same person. The reason that happens is because they're spending so much time together or a friend group that all acts the same, and if you're around co-workers who are constantly negative, stuff like that. So I think it's important to surround yourself with good people and then take a targeted approach to people who you know, reach out to people and just make sure I don't know, just make sure you're around good people. Like I think, if you're around happy people, it's really hard to not, although the one caveat I will say is sometimes it can be very isolating if you're around of very positive people and you're having a really hard time, yeah, but again, that's where, if you're surrounded by good people, you can go to them and be open and honest and vulnerable and say hey, I'm really struggling right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I realize that we say that a lot and I guess I've just had more conversations with people and I do think it's a lot harder than it sounds like to be around Just find the good people, and I think that's where both of our things come in. Before you can find the good people, you need to address your own needs, because it becomes very obvious around other people that those things are not being addressed.
Speaker 2:So, yes, everything you said is right. You can disagree with me? No, I. What I disagree with is the idea. I know it's um, it's simple. It's just hard to be surrounded by good people. The reason people say that they have a hard time finding good friends and surrounding themselves with good people, I think, is because what they really mean is I haven't found somebody I enjoy yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And my counter is you'd rather be surrounded by good people and learn to enjoy them than be surrounded by people that you maybe enjoy a little bit more, but are bringing you down and just hope that it gets better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I guess my thought process has shifted from like actively seeking the good people versus the good people are a, a counter, not a counter. Are a product of your like, your happiness, like your joy, like when you suddenly start to pour into yourself, start doing the things that you like, then the good people like trickle in, you know uh, yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 2:But like I guess what I'm saying is, somebody could say well, I just have a hard time finding people around me and my answer is go to church, sign up for a group and go yeah, no, but you do have to put effort in.
Speaker 1:That's not what I'm saying yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I just I feel like people are like well, I just, you know, I'm waiting for someone that like really vibes with me.
Speaker 1:Well, and I guess maybe that's where I'm like we're differing, like it's okay to have superficial friendships, like the connections, like the in.
Speaker 2:Yes, of course.
Speaker 1:And then what I'm saying is those really really strong connections, suddenly, like they will develop over time, it'll become a product of you just figuring out your your heart, your community, what you like, those friendships, those trickle in later that's fair, and maybe I'm.
Speaker 2:Maybe I'm being harsh because I, I mean, I do know a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm just like saying that because you are a really social person and can make a lot of friends very easily and like thank you, I am I'm the person that's like, oh, I'm not really like connecting that hard, that well with this person, like is it worth reaching out again?
Speaker 1:I don't know like I've learned a lot from you to just keep pursuing a friendship even if you know, like the first impression wasn't like the best. It's like dating yeah, it's literally we've talked about this a million times like friendship, and adulting when you're married is just dating again.
Speaker 2:You go.
Speaker 1:Okay, number two yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll just do three.
Speaker 1:Oh, because we've got so much to say We'll see. Maybe we'll speed it up. Okay, number two, conversation with God. So I was going to say rosary, but to practically Rosary. Because that's truly entering battle. What is my weapon? It would be a rosary Like that is that's what I would bring with me. Um, but to say that I pray the rosary every day would be a lie. Like I don't, I wish I do.
Speaker 2:I'm pretty close though.
Speaker 1:I love praying the rosary, but I I'm not gonna just flat out lie and say that you need to pray it every day, cause I prayed every day. I don't think I, I just don't. I would love to, but exactly like I, most people probably don't it's, but it's a beautiful prayer and what I've come down to the conclusion is just are you having conversation with God? Are you whether that is like I've got the I breviary app or the divine office app, like it takes three minutes to pray, like the morning prayer, like there's there's scripture included in there, there's liturgy in there. There's a lot of good substance in just a three to five minute prayer and sometimes that's all I have time for, but that is like my number one priority, outside from making myself breakfast.
Speaker 2:That is actually number one.
Speaker 1:And drinking my coffee, because what do you need? That's what I need right when I wake up. Number two, that's funny.
Speaker 2:You really do operate off of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. I do it's like okay, I have to eat breakfast first. Then, when I eat breakfast, I do my mental needs where I pray my rosary. So I feel good when I'm spiritually fulfilled Drinking my warm coffee, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy on the inside I'm not.
Speaker 1:This is my literal day-to-day Some kind of conversation with God. If I have an hour of quiet time and I have the time for it, I'll do it all, but mostly I don't, and so I will at least try to pray like the morning prayer, with the divine office in the background, and I feel like this is kind of cheesy, but I've really loved doing it and joe's just accepted it, but I I just put on adoration on the tv she does like it like just leaves it on for the dogs to we're all here worshiping jesus.
Speaker 2:It's just a.
Speaker 1:It's a still image of adoration but I, I it's impossible to go to mass every day. I mean, it's not impossible, but it, it, it's realistically to make time for it every day. I'm sure we could, but I do know and I love like the idea of just like setting. I mean, like catholics are all about setting the scene. We light the candles, the incense, everything, the gestures.
Speaker 1:We do everything we can to get into the prayerful mindset, and so I have really leaned into that lately. I'm not saying that you have to, I'm just going to simplify it. To conversation with God that is just what I do. So, whatever that looks like, and not just in the morning. But are you it to conversation with God? That is just what I do. So whatever that looks like, and not just like in the morning. But are you like engaging in conversation with God in every exchange that you have throughout the day?
Speaker 2:I think I've told you this. I used to and I don't do it anymore but I used to put my own phone number in my phone as God, and then I would text myself throughout the day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And I would just say, like you know, worried about this, like just in the same way that I would text you with you know, questions, comments, concerns, whatever, and it kind of just became like a running conversation for me in my head of like, what am I talking to God about? And that was helpful. I like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I remember you doing that and I was like God. God texted you God texted you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he did. I'll tell you like that. That's how I knew it was a baby girl and nobody else believed me, but I knew.
Speaker 1:I knew, in my heart of hearts, I knew Okay.
Speaker 2:Um, my number three, and I think this is my favorite one, because this one is very real to me, but I think it will be helpful to a lot of people. I think in your day-to-day you need to have something to chew on, and when I I know, I don't know why I did that.
Speaker 1:I did not like that. I did not like that.
Speaker 2:What I mean by that is, I think you should constantly be either some form of media, whether it's a song, a podcast, a book, a show, something that is making you think and something that's making you think and I wouldn't even say it's like a learning thing, like you don't need to read a book.
Speaker 2:that's about like now I guess I am currently reading a book about the history of the early church, but it is something that just is making you think, and I think it's important because I think self-introspection, self-reflection, that's how you get through.
Speaker 2:Like that's how you understand your place in the world, that's how you go about changing your place in the world, that's how you go about changing your relationship with God to make it better, changing your relationship with friends and family. Because when you have that self-reflection and that thinking and just realizing what's going on? I don't know, I just I think it's very helpful.
Speaker 1:No, I totally agree.
Speaker 2:And again, it doesn't have to be necessarily like a straight prayer book or a straight a book, you know, like just reading the Bible, but just something that you have in your day to day life that is just encouraging you to think.
Speaker 2:Yeah, to just use your brain and not not again, I don't even know not necessarily in like a I'm doing Sudoku puzzles, but like a thinking about your surroundings and about you and the more that you can do. That I think it just it helps you get through the day to day and it breaks up some of the minutia.
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, the first time that was really introduced to me was when I was discerning the religious life, because we were not talking.
Speaker 1:I know, surprise we were not talking. I know, surprise we were not talking. And I was talking to a friend that was in seminary at the time and I remember he because he was just like helping me walk through it, I know flashback, um and he was like, well, what are you reading? And I was like the bible, like I don't know, what do you mean? I don't read. Yeah, um, he was like, okay, that's great, but like you should always have some kind of spiritual read outside of the Bible, just to help challenge you and like grow and learn. And now that's morphed kind of into like like a podcast, like a good podcast that it like is that is, you know, has a lot of truth to it and a lot of good wisdom or or whatever that might look like for you.
Speaker 1:Maybe you do like reading but I that was the first time someone was like you need this in order to go through this. Yeah, um, so that I like that one that was good.
Speaker 2:I know something to chew on, something to think about.
Speaker 1:I like it, um, since we're stopping at three.
Speaker 1:And then my big last one is examine your conscience I think that's actually kind of similar, something that you want yeah, yeah, and you think you say examination of conscience and you literally think of the, the usccb examination of conscience, like the list, and that's great, that's a really good, like solid way to examine your conscience. But just like and and I'm saying this because I realize I need to do this more but at the end of the day, just thinking through how your day went, different exchanges you had with people, decisions that you made that may or may not have been good decisions, the way that those affected your relationship with God, and like I'm realizing, while although majority of us are probably not committing mortal sins on a day to day, like you're not just out here like oh man, I really struggle with more murder, or like adultery, like majority of us are not struggling with those, but are we really diving deep into our hearts and understanding the way that?
Speaker 1:wow, like when I was talking to this person and said this, I felt this kind of way about it yeah and that stood out to me and remember we were like literally watching tv the other day and somebody, like there was a therapist talking to somebody and the therapist was like okay, but like how did that actually?
Speaker 2:oh yes, what was how did that actually? Oh yes, how did she phrase it? She said how did it feel?
Speaker 1:How did it feel In your body? Yeah, how did it feel in your body.
Speaker 2:Which sounds very new agey, but I think that's actually an awesome question.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I don't think we pause enough to.
Speaker 2:What show was that?
Speaker 1:Friends and Neighbors.
Speaker 2:It was Friends and Neighbors, not exactly the best Apple that friends and neighbors.
Speaker 1:It was friends and neighbors not exactly the best like apple plus, but it was it really. It stood out to me because I feel like that is a great way to examine your conscience, like thinking back at the last 12 hours of your day and like this situation happened and I felt like my stomach drop when you do something bad, 99% of people out there you will feel your body will feel bad, yeah, if you do something. I was sweating, like it made me sweat, like it made me turn red, like.
Speaker 2:I was tingly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like so many things that we just totally brush off and I'm like, wow, like that, there's a reason we feel that way and we need to dive deeper into that. And so I say that because I'm like I need to do that way better, because Isn't it amazing that our bodies know kind of what's right or wrong, red? Flag. Something's wrong so yeah, go ahead. That's it. That's it really. And if you don't know where to start, you can totally just look up the examination of conscience and start from there.
Speaker 2:But Well, I think that self-reflection Again it's they're all Everything we've kind of said Unplanned.
Speaker 1:Sorry, Excuse me you literally can't, I can't Dude.
Speaker 2:I'm a mess right now. Everything we said unplanned, kind of all ties in together and I think it really goes back to being able to self-reflect and see where you're at and then push past it and move forward. And when you look at that examination of conscience you know it's just. It gives you so much perspective on where you're at if you do it every day, if you really look back and say, ok, what did I do? Because, honestly, a lot of times we're afraid to look back at our day.
Speaker 2:We're afraid to say like, oh, what did I do wrong? Or this. You know I don't want to have regrets, but again, how can you move past it if you don't?
Speaker 2:know if you're not trying to figure out what's wrong. You know, it's kind of like the old saying, like if the house is on fire and you, you know, you open a window to like try and let some air in, or well, that's not what the saying is. Wait, what am I talking about? I just completely lost it. I completely, yeah, I had it and then it completely left and you, like it's like, pretend like it didn't happen oh yeah, I I don't know. It's something about a window and a door in the house.
Speaker 1:I don't know what I'm trying to get at this could have been a really good way to end the episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's going to be amazing. What I'm trying to get at is you could be trying to fix a problem, but you don't even know what the problem is. You're trying to treat the symptoms, not the problem, and I think if you have a lot of self-reflection at the end of the day of every day, you will hone in on what the actual problem is and be able to treat the problem.
Speaker 1:It's habitual, like you just create these habits and, on the flip side, you can include in your reflection okay, what was happy about today, like what were the good things that came out of this day. Like every week or so, I'll do a little joy inventory on Instagram.
Speaker 1:It's been like my favorite thing, where you literally just take inventory of the joy. That's not a new thing, a bunch of people do that. But when you literally just take inventory of the joy, that's not a new thing, a bunch of people do that, but you can implement that in your daily reflection?
Speaker 1:True, let me count the fruit. What was good about this day? Create those habits. It doesn't come natural to us. We are incapable of the unconditional love that you experience in relationships and family and marriage. We're literally incapable of that without the help of God. If God was not here, then all these relationships would fall apart.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:And so don't put like, don't be so hard on yourself. Surviving is hard, but God makes it possible, Like he really does, True true. He mends those pieces, those broken pieces.
Speaker 2:We're broken.
Speaker 1:We are.
Speaker 2:You ready for a marriage meeting?
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's do it Okay.
Speaker 2:So I thought this would be fun. I'm sure we're going to do it at like a baby shower or whatever, but I thought it'd be fun to do it on the podcast first.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to ask you some questions. I'll have some answers too, and we'll see who's closest to right. We'll reconvene in five months.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right. What is the actual day you think the baby is going to be born? Our expected due date is October 18th.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's going to be my birthday, October 10th.
Speaker 2:I'm going to go with.
Speaker 1:But I also feel like it's going to be later, so I don't know.
Speaker 2:She's definitely going to be born on a Ravens game, so let me look when that Sunday is. I think it's actually their bi-week, because I remember looking at it.
Speaker 1:You're like oh nice, nice, nice.
Speaker 2:She's going to be. She's really concerned. I'm going to say the 12th because that's a Sunday, so I'm going to say October 12th. That's my cousin's birthday.
Speaker 1:I have so many family members born in October. She's going to land on one of their birthdays.
Speaker 2:What time?
Speaker 1:Hmm, it's going to be, I feel like three o'clock in the morning and this is funny. I don't have any real reason, other than when my stomach was hurting the other day it was three o'clock AM on the dot and I'm like and I woke up.
Speaker 2:Dear Lord, deliver me from this evil.
Speaker 1:I woke up in pain, truly thinking like is this what contractions feel like? Nah, it was just gas pain. Oh my gosh, so I'm going to go at 3 am.
Speaker 2:I like 7.14 pm.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay.
Speaker 2:Yep, we do know the first letter of the baby's name, so we'll keep that one safe. Hair color.
Speaker 1:Brown, dark, dark, dark brown. My jeans are definitely dominant in that department baby's eye color brown all right baby's weight I think she's gonna be seven pounds, oh there was there was a loud booming noise in the kitchen and there's only two dogs in the kitchen at the very moment interested to see what he got into.
Speaker 2:Um, what'd you say? Um, I forgot what was the baby's weight oh seven pounds I'm gonna say seven pounds, eight ounces okay and then finally, baby's length.
Speaker 1:I don't, I have no idea what how long babies are, so oh, I don't even feel like I can make a guess on this I'm gonna say we're gonna go in inches.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna say baby's gonna be. We're both looking at our hands.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna say 13 and a half inches think baby is going to be three hand sizes large.
Speaker 2:What are we selling? A horse, she's 17, hand spans tall.
Speaker 1:From shoulder to hoof. I think she's going to be two of my hands, yeah.
Speaker 2:All right everybody.
Speaker 1:I'll take a picture when she's born with my hands in front of her.
Speaker 2:All right, well, I have a question?
Speaker 1:Okay, Because I haven. I have a question.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because I haven't told you today purposely what fruit is our baby today? Because we are just 20 weeks.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, can you remind she was an eggplant? I believe?
Speaker 1:No, she was a bell pepper last week.
Speaker 2:An eggplant.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Smaller yeah, grapefruit no One more guess.
Speaker 1:Oh, I uh a banana, but like plump, no bananas next week. Okay, so smaller than a, I guess, because bananas are long, she's a pear.
Speaker 2:Oh, a bell pepper is bigger than a pear. I don't quite understand this thing is wrong and she was a grapefruit, like three weeks ago, so I'm out on this at that.
Speaker 1:I don't understand. I don't understand, but according to my app she is a pear. No shot she's bigger than a pear. She's kicking, though. I mean she's strong for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks guys.
Speaker 1:This was fun. Thanks for joining and we hope you have a great week. I forgot my line. Oh, let's keep growing together. Let's do it.
Speaker 2:Bye y'all. I'm going to use a little bit of water to get rid of the water. I'm going to put it in a container and put it in a container. I'm going to put it in a Thank you.