Episode #29: Spencer Henke

Spencer Henke was named the Interim head men's basketball coach at Saint Leo University in St. Leo, FL in May of 2024 for the 2024-25 season following four seasons as an assistant coach on Lance Randall's staff from 2020-24.  Randall took the Assistant Men's Basketball Coach position at the University of Wisconsin this summer.

Henke first arrived at Saint Leo as a graduate assistant (2020–21) and helped lead the Lions to a Sunshine State Conference tournament title in 2021. In the summer of 2021, he was promoted to the Head Assistant Coach and Director of Recruiting positions. Henke coordinated individual workouts, weekly recruiting and team schedules, and all team travel. On top of this, Henke played a pivotal role in developing scouting reports. Prior to the 2023-24 season, he was one again promoted to associate head coach.

Learn more about Spencer Henke here:  https://saintleolions.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/spencer-henke/631

Significant Recruiting Resources — Take the guesswork out of college recruiting with Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes, sport-specific Recruit’s Journals, and the Significant Recruiting Launchpad. Practical tools to help families research schools, stay organized, and build a smarter recruiting strategy. Learn more at CoachMattRogers.com.

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On this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, I sat down with one of the youngest head men's college basketball coaches in the country, Coach Spencer Henke, the new head men's basketball coach at St. Leo University down in Florida. Coach Henke has spent the last eight years developing his skills and experience under two giants in the college game, Steve Wojo Wojkowski, the former star Duke point guard and former Marquette University head coach, And one of the true gentlemen of the game and an old friend of mine, Lance Randall. If you're going to take the reins as a head college coach, there's not two better guys to learn from. I'm very thankful for Coach Hankey recording this episode when he does, because at the time of this recording, he was scheduled to get married to the love of his life the next day. Congrats to Coach and his beautiful new bride. I hope they got a few days away before he was back in the gym for the start of the school year. We had a great conversation in this episode and you'll hear some really strong advice for all the young guys and gals looking to break into the college game as a coach. And I was impressed with his passion for the game and what he's done the past eight years to put himself in a position to earn this opportunity that's now in front of him. He's a great role model for all young coaches out there. I'm thankful to call him a new friend and thankful for his wisdom he shared with me that I now get to share with all of you. Enjoy! Coach Spencer, it's so great to see you and so great to have you on the podcast. Spence, he just got the job at St. Leo. That was really exciting for me. I've known coach Randall for a long time. Tell me what this feels like, taking over this job and being a head coach. I don't think it's quite sunk in yet a little bit more. I think the biggest change is obviously going from being an assistant the last three years with coach Randall, where I got tasked to do and now I can tell people what to do. No, I'm just kidding. No, it's been awesome. I've been very fortunate to obviously step in this role in such a great program. in the warmth of Florida, which is never a negative either. But it's been great. It's been a whirlwind for sure without a doubt because it all happened very quickly. But selfishly I think I was ready for it. And that's a credit to, all my mentors so far. And I think as well, coach Randall too, really giving me A lot of leverage the these past four years at St. Leo leading up to this point where, in terms of campus connections, community connections and really just having my voice I think ready for that. Obviously, there is a lot to learn. I always tell our guys that we're just as much of learners as them. And I think I've done more learning in the last, Oh, geez, what over a little over two months now than anything which has been awesome, but I've loved it so far. And hopefully, we keep this thing rolling in the right direction. I'm really excited for you. I tell the story way too much, but the big reason why I wanted you on is you're the same age I was when I got my head coaching job. And. And I remember I got it late. I think my first day on the job was like June 1st, the coach that they'd let go had done zero recruiting. So I was trying to recruit on June 1st and this was 20 years before the portal. So I was, I'm really intrigued to talk to you about what this experience has been like. And what was. What was your number one objective when you took the job? Where did your brain go? And I know you've been with this program and you knew these kids, but what was your number one objective when you got the call to take over the program? Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head right away is, you go to recruiting right away, right? That's the first thing, cause we can put the best staff in the world together, but you gotta have some guys that can put the ball in the hoop and get some stops defensively. So in all reality I was pretty fortunate of the timing of when coach Randall left. And when I got that call and kind of the, Idea of, hey, this is where, we're moving the program and you're gonna be, in charge of it going forward. We actually had all our guys signed, but one so our high schoolers and one transfer, we had one transfer spot remaining. When we zoom from the team and let them know what coach Randall was going that was the first thing. I was on the phone, I think till about 3 AM that night, Eastern time. And I think the biggest thing was with that is, again it helped, like you said, with the fact that I had been here I was fortunate enough to be the director of recruiting in my previous role as associate head coach. So those relationships really existed, I wasn't going in there cold Turkey where it was like, Hey, I'm Like I've never talked to you before. This is what we're doing. On that side of things. So I think When coach Randall informed the team and then our AD kind of gave me the floor to talk, just was like, Hey guys got the relationships with you. Obviously coach Randall, what we all he's joked was he was the closer, he sealed the deal with it. But I'm very fortunate in that those relationships persisted. And honestly, it was a pretty cool experience to me. Still probably the, Best thing that's happened so far since I've been on the job is, I zoomed with them all, called them all. And when I left campus that night we have a beautiful lion statue, right when you get into campus. And it was like pitch black cause in Florida, I don't know how much you've been in Florida. It is so dark at night. There is nowhere in St. Leo is more inland on that side. But there's these strobe lights that, that, that show on, the lion. And I just took a video of it. And I was pretty much just Hey guys this is a start of a new era. Like the light is shining on the lines from that. They were all asleep at that point, but then the next morning. And I don't know if they talked or what they did. They all took videos of themselves, like coach, like we got your back, like we're in this, like we're in this together, like you recruited us from that standpoint. So that was like, It brought a tear to my eye when it first happened. But it was really cool. Cause that's the first thing you worry about, and you see it all the time at the division one level division two, division three with just the way the portal is, it's easy for that. And I get it because coach Randall obviously has a ton of experience that was part of the reason why those guys came to St. Leo just really hit the relationships on the head. And then we're fortunate enough that actually right when. The next day after we announced that he was leaving, our final visit was coming knowing that, so we got that wrapped up too. So that was step number one. And thankfully it was a pretty seamless transition on that side, but I'm obviously very thankful for our guys for believing in me and believing in obviously the staff that I hired. Because that's always important. On that side of things, I feel great about the group we have just. In terms of the returners, the, obviously the transfers we have coming in and the freshmen. So that was project enemy number one, and it was relatively simple, which I don't think a lot of people can say. So I guess I'm pretty lucky with that. Yeah. I was going to ask you how the guys reacted to you. So that's, it's perfect. You couldn't have asked for anything better. It's when you take over a job, people don't understand. Yes. You got to recruit right away. Day one, you recruited, you were on the phone. But you also have to recruit the roster you already have. And now more than ever, you have to recruit the kids that are still there. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I, and I agree with that a hundred percent. And I think that, and I gotta give a credit to Owen Amar and Logan and Alex and Dylan for really leading the charge on that. Just cause obviously they had seen me. As an associate head coach, as an assistant coach, in that role and developing more and more. And I think they really, when I was talking about that conversation where they must all talk, I really got the sense from the new guys that was like, hey They called and vouch for you on that side. So that's a credit to them. And obviously I'm very thankful for them on that side of things, but a hundred percent, that's where the difference is now, in the old days where, the portal wasn't the portal and transferring wasn't so easy that if you take over a job, you're going to have six guys that are just there. Like it could have very easily been that day. I had zero guys here and it was reassuring to not have that problem. But yeah the relationships were important obviously as part of it. And I think that's a credit to, not only just the guys they are, but just really in general, how. Our program approaches recruiting. I'm a very strong believer that like, what is what you get. St. Leo is a great place. It's beautiful, but I'm going to pick on you. I'm going to talk to you about your girlfriends. Like I'm going to mess with you. I'm going to, I'm going to talk trash about your sports teams, but like just really building genuine relationships, where, in a situation like that, I think that kind of. supersedes everything else in the sense that you're like, listen, like he's my coach. Like he cares about me more than just, the fact that I wear the number one on my Jersey or the fact that I wear lions and we practice two hours every day on that side of things for sure. So I think that was a huge key for sure. Most, and I say that humbly, but I just think the fact that I was able to be here for the previous four years with these guys, a lot of them, two years, three years and that they knew what they were getting which I think is reassuring for them. And then obviously it was reassuring for the new guys. That's fantastic. And you've worked for a really great guys. Lance Randall, Steve Wojcicki, when you talk about Randall and Wojo I'm assuming, because I know Lance a little bit, I, I've seen where wo Joe's come from with, in Coach K's umbrella. What did they give you in terms of enabling you to be a leader and enabling you to be your authentic self? What did you get from those two guys in terms of. Knowing I'm ready for this. No, for sure. Most definitely. And I think it really starts all the way back. With coach Wojo is the fact that, I was fortunate enough to be a student manager at Marquette all four years. And I think it is an unbelievable route to get into coaching. So anyone that's listening that, may be, Firing to be a coach, whatever the case is I cannot emphasize that enough is that if you're not blessed athletically to continue your college career you want to be a coach, which I always knew I want to do the student manager route. It is a grind. Do not get me wrong. Like you are in there late at night. You are doing a lot of different things, but coach Wojo and really the entire staff at Marquette were unbelievable to us. It is. Probably the best manager experience. I think anybody could have in the sense that when you talk about enabling. is they pretty much, once you earn your stripes for lack of better terms, and show your commitment like how you want to approach it and how you want to really start to blossom your coaching career. They gave you that leeway and I was very fortunate for that. So like for my avenue, for example, I love the skill development aspect. Like I absolutely loved it. That was one of those things where like I saw I guess for lack of better terms and okay, I'm going to be in here every single time a guy wants to work out and build that relationship with the player. Really I got to give credit to Kate and Reinhardt and Andrew Rousey to really good players for Marquette. And what first of my couple of years is I would be in there rebounding. And then it got to the point where they were like, Hey do you want to work me out? Put me through a 30 minute workout, whatever the case may be. And obviously as a freshman dealing with guys who want to be in the NBA, you get a little nervous with that. And then on top of like, all right, I'm going to do something wrong for the coaches. I don't want to get in trouble on that side of things, but I think really, once Kate and Rousey started that Marcus Howard came along and Sam Hauser and Sakaar Annam and Kobe McEwen and Theo John. And I think it was one of those things where, I'm thankful that they trusted me. But then, Coach Wojo, Coach Stan Johnson, Coach Jake Persutti, Coach Dwayne Killings, like they taught me things along the way hey we love what you're doing, but why don't you focus on this, right? Because again, we're always learning on that side of things and ultimately you're serving them, you're serving the program. So I think that's where I would say I really started to get my confidence in terms of like my voice and kind of working with guys is just that ability that, I think is very unique for a student manager role, right? That our coaches at Marquette trusted me to do that. And I was very fortunate for that too. Marcus Howard is killing it. And I'm not saying I'm a major reason why by any means overseas, but just to be able for me to really, to learn from him and learn from Sakaar and see Sam Hauser just rattle off 50 straight made threes, like it's nothing and just see like that work of it. And then, obviously as well, learning the film, the scouting report stuff like that. And then really when I graduated from Marquette. I would say I had a choice to make it is I could have stayed the division one route and it was COVID. So opportunities were limited to a hundred percent but could have stayed the division one route, and done a graduate assistant. But again, I say this humbly. I felt like I. needed a little bit more in the sense that I had done so much at Marquette and was so thankful to be able to do so much that, when I really talked to those guys, they were like, Hey you could consider division two in the sense of that, division two is not like Marquette, right? We got three coaches here. This is what we're doing. You are both feet in the deep end day one, like you are recruiting, you're doing scouting reports, stuff like that. And I was fortunate enough to actually find St. Leo through LinkedIn, believe it or not. And I saw it and the connection point is so from Wisconsin, where I'm originally from coached at my high school, my assistant coach in high school played for a state championship team. So I just reached out to him and I was like, Hey is there any way you can get me in contact? Like I hadn't previously known coach Randall at all. And then I ultimately got connected and in a week was. Ready to go to Florida. So it's awesome. And then, once I got here, I think it's obviously a credit to coach Randall and the way that he you know, delegates on that side of things. Still something that I'm trying to learn out, learn how to do as a head coach. Never easy. You'll learn as you go. Trust me, you'll fail more than you succeed at delegating. Exactly. So I think that too is just laying the standard, but then also. For the first year I was here during COVID, obviously it's a crazy year where, you go from practicing, not practicing, playing, not playing, whatever the case may be. But Ryan Ham, who's actually an assistant at Cal State Fullerton, who was above me my first year here did a really great job of teaching me. He had been with coach Randall nine years in total. So he really showed me the ropes for lack of better terms. And I can honestly thank COVID for that because a lot of times it was just me and him in the office in terms of, Learning things, showing things, stuff like that. And really just soaked it all in that first year. And then obviously once coach ham left it was fortunate enough to I guess have coach Randall trust me enough to take over as a top assistant. And it was just really about learning. Honestly, that first year after we won the conference championship did not go the way we wanted. And for me, it was a whirlwind too, because it happened very late. So I felt like I was treading water a little bit. But. Always with the goal of learning and seeing what it can do better with it. And yeah, I'm very fortunate. I've worked with some good guys so far. That's for sure. Who held me to some high standards, but I'm very thankful for it because I think You know, they know I want to be great. They know I want to do great things in this profession. So I wouldn't want them to hold me to any less expectations. I'll tell you this from a guy that's been doing this a long time. It's a lot easier to be a good guy to a guy that's already a good guy. And yeah, it's a lot easier to put my energy into a guy like you, because you are so passionate and you are so humble, And you love the game and you love teaching so much. It's easy to say, I'm going to give this kid everything I got. I'm going to give this coach everything I've got to make sure he succeeds. Cause we all were there, we all had somebody give us a hand up. For me, it was Charlie Spoonhour and Ray Shovlin and Jerry Pettigrew, without those three guys, I wouldn't have had my coaching career. So I love that. Hey, I love the story of you being a manager for Wojo. Yeah. And you did a great job of talking about how you got to Lance and the hustle. You got to really put yourself out there. Talk to me about being a, an 18 year old and getting Wojo to say, Hey, yeah, we'll bring you out as a manager because I'm sure there's 200 guys that want that job. So how do you, what advice do you give that 18 year old who's going to college that knows they're not going to play, but they'd love to be a part of a program and grow in a program? Yeah, no, for sure. So the route that I took. So when I reached out to coach Pursuti and Dan Medhava Palil, who is, coach Pursuti is now the associate head coach at Buffalo. He was the director of operations when I was, when I first started at Marquette and then Dan Medhava Palil was a graduate assistant at Pursuti. Marquette, who is now at Albany as an assistant coach, but long story short, reached out actually got fortunate because another one of my assistant coaches knew Travis Diener, who was on the staff at that point, got me in connection there. And then they basically were like, Hey, the first level of interview is work our summer camps. That's what they say, but they probably. Meant it to but no, but part of it is just because they wanted to see you around, right? See you around the environment, stuff like that. Got in my 2001 Saturn and made the hour and a half trip down to Milwaukee. And works the first two weeks of summer camp. So very long, a lot of little kids running around. Really just tried to do a great job with that. Show them teaching, volunteer to do stuff, be there early. Just stuff like that. And then. Once I got through that just followed up, wrote him a letter was just thanked him and was just like, I'd really love to be a part of the manager process, an interview process. And then once school started they held like open tryouts basically for managers like interviews and stuff like that. But I think What really helped me is just working those summer camps. You got to know them, you got to see the faces of them and stuff like that on that side of things. And that's one thing that I think I've learned in the positive light is that, obviously you see, programs, posts, or summer camps and stuff like that, but really that's honestly how I got. That opportunity was through that is, I must've did enough of a good job, of, corralling little kids for three weeks in total. But really it's important, right? Cause you can send as many text messages as you want. You can send as many emails as you want and paint yourself any which way. But. Now, obviously in this role, it's the same way, right? Guys reach out about being a manager, being, an assistant coach, like you want to see them in action, right? Do you want to see them communicate? You want to see if they're on time and doing all those things. So I think that helped me for sure. And actually two other guys that were managers with me all four years there did the same thing. So it was a kind of a cool little thing for us. And looking back when we graduated, the summer camps paid off at the end. And then it was really, like I said, once school started and you were in the next round of interviews is just prioritizing this, right? Cause that in that role, a hundred percent, like you got to show you want it. You gotta be a grinder. Like you really do yes, there's going to be some late nights for sure, but. If a guy texts them at 11 o'clock at night and Hey, can someone rebound? Like you gotta be okay with it if you really want it. And you make your own luck with it. And I really tried to prioritize that probably a little too much. Sometimes my mom would be like, you need to go to bed. But no, it was good. And again, I'm very thankful for how it worked, long story short. Anyone that's doing it, don't be free, be afraid to reach out. And then, if you get the opportunity to do it, you really got to go 150%, not even 110 percent because those are the guys that are going to last because it is not an easy. The job, it's a thankless job. Like it is very rarely. Are you going to, are you going to get your roses with it? But when you do, it makes it feel that much better. I went through the same process. Grind is the word. Anybody who thinks you're going to get into college basketball and you're going to make a ton of money and you're going to do a lot of you're going to get, you're going to be the lead recruiter and the associate coach. And day one, you're crazy. You have to grind. You have to meet people. You have to show your work ethic. And I did the same thing. I worked every single camp. I got my first job, my first real job out of a camp because I made a relationship with a high school coach and that high school coach hired me. And then I became the head coach. And then those relationships turned into a head college coach. So I love it. I love it. And it's real. If you don't want to work, it's the wrong job for you because it might be 10, 15 years before you make a decent living as a college basketball coach, you've got to put the hours in and you got to be committed to it. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I was dumb enough to get married at 22 and have a wife and then 15, actually I get married officially tomorrow. So congratulations. Thank you. What are you doing? Talking to me the day before? Don't worry. It's all set. No, but I don't want to be getting evil voicemails from your bride tomorrow. No, she'll be all right. Congratulations. Fantastic. What's her name? Let's give her some props. Emily Baker. So she is about to be Emily Hankey. So that's fantastic. Is she a Wisconsin girl or did you meet her? Oh, so actually She's actually from England. Believe it or not. So she worked at St. Leo when I got down here. And then after two years of being afraid of being friends we started dating and now we we are doing the thing tomorrow. So tomorrow is our. Is our courthouse wedding to start like her visa process with the marriage license and stuff. And then May is the big shebang. So good for the price of one baby. It's very familiar. My wife and I, we eloped to the courthouse. We had a judge marry us. Then we got, we had a big wedding and a year and a half later, it was May when we got married. So congratulations. And there's no better way to start. A marriage than being friends first. So I, and to have two years to be somebody's friend and really figure each other out without the romantic side. God bless you. That's fantastic. Good, smart man. All right. So let's talk hoops, Spencer. Cause if I don't talk hoops with you, man, I'm going to be. Tell me about, you've worked for Lance, you've worked for Wojo, you've seen what works, what hasn't worked, you've been a manager you've learned everything from the ground up and learn how to be your own man. When you think X's and O's, when I asked you about offense and defense, what's the first thing that pops in your head? What do you want to do with a group of guys? Yeah, for sure. No great question. So I really think It's twofold. And I think a lot of it is, if you would have asked me when I first started, my answer would have been very different now. And I think, in terms of offense, and I think part of it is just the way that basketball in general has really developed. Obviously you really want to pay, play with pace. That's the first thing we talk about. And I think pace is, it is, A catch all phrase that really encapsulates a lot of things, obviously pays for first and foremost is in transition. So I love transition. I want to get out and go we were really strong believers here at St. Leo. And I think the years we've been, really successful early threes are great for us. Like we always used to say coach Randall and I always used to say that early threes in transition are our best offense. Kind of the, what Steve Kerr says about Steph Curry, even though we haven't had Steph Curry, but just in the idea that, that in between period of, okay, the defense is going back, right? Not necessarily transition defense, but they're not set yet. Okay. And can we get a quick three off and go from that? So obviously, We recruit to that. We really like guys that can really fill it up and really shoot it. To make plays off the dribble. But then, once the kind of the hustle and bustle transition, semi transition settles, I think pace also comes into play there in terms of our reads and being efficient. And I think really probably efficiency is really the more direct, terminology with our pace. It's just okay, we do a lot of chin action and a lot of zoom action is really what I envision us doing this year. Yeah. And that's where pace comes in that giving the guys the freedom out offensively, okay, these are our reads, right? Back cut, curl, pop, whatever the case is, but the pace in your decision making needs to be efficient and it needs to be, violent. We, one term that I love that coach Randall used to use all the time is violent second action. So just okay, if I curl great, okay, a curl is a curl, but your cut needs to be violent and the pop needs to be violent. And I think that's really where. Pace comes into play. And for me, that's where, okay, I want to play with pace, but what does pace look like? Does pace just mean in transition? No, not necessarily, because there's more to that. It's the pace of your cuts. It's the pace of the decision making. It's the pace of, if I go to a dribble handoff, I'm not walking into it. I need to go with it, at the guy's defender and go from there. So I think really, I guess in terms of offenses, really, like I said, pace is it. But for me, pace is not just playing fast because playing fast can be great at times, but you can really get out of control. I think you make a lot of bad decisions. And defensively, I think we've had to really be flexible over the years. I've been at St. Leo specifically and really started to grow into college coaching just because I think we've had some teams that can really defend like the, my first year here when we won the conference championship. Those dudes were some dogs defensively. We could get up into guys and we could really pressure and we could trap and we could switch ball screens. And then, two of the years we couldn't. And then, two years ago, we could again. From that side of the point, and then this year, I think in terms of just kind of ideology and just plan, putting it in places, obviously you're a culture of your environment. I got to give credit where credit is due. Nova Southeastern has been unbelievable on division two of these past couple of years and the way they play is, it is impressive. Okay. They are pressing you the entire time. And for anyone that hasn't watched one of their games, watch one of their games because it is one of the most unique systems in the entire country and it is unique to them and they do an unbelievable job with it. So I think I really plan on probably, not being them by any mean, but you got to. Culture, your guys program, your guys, for lack of better terms of, what's in front of you, and the reality of the situation is they've been in front of us the past couple of years. Getting playing faster, working on some pressing and stuff like that. But I really think again, defensively is just being active. The difference between. feeling a guy and actually feeling an activity level from a team where you're talking and you're communicating. And those are things that we haven't always been great at. When I've been at St. Leo and I hope that we're better at it this year than we have been, those not productive years, but it's really important. I'm a man to man guy. I want to play man to man. I want guys to embrace the challenge of guarding and we're, we can't give away all our cards obviously, but we're we plan on playing that way for sure. And just being aggressive and just really, switching some ball screens, trapping some ball screens, playing straight up heads, whatever the case may be with it, but just truly getting an identity of. I think just having a presence on the defensive end, because the two years we've been really good that I've been here, we've had that for sure. The other two years where we've just been okay. I think that's been a little lackluster, but at the end of the day, The guy's got to want to play defense. Defense is not a, is not knight in shining armors by any means. It's you're in the mud with it. You are in the cellar and you got to really get after it with it. And I think that our guys this year have that which I'm excited for sure. Good. Anybody that's watched my team's play knows that as I'm listening to you, the hair standing up on my arms, I'm so juiced up about pressing and running and trapping and getting in their face. I love all that stuff. You've used some terms, and I love the terms you use because they're, Yeah, but for those people that don't know basketball lingo a little bit, talk a little bit when you say chin and zoom, talk about the perspective of entry points with that. And really what you like to do out of an offense when that breaks that there you don't get that early three. What do you want to do with entry points to get your offense moving? And yeah, for sure. That's great. So actually so with the chin series specifically, we actually use the terminology lift. That's what we call it. But it's essentially chin at the end of the day. So for us, it really depends on where our lift guy, who's typically our five man ends up. So a lot of times is your five, your rim runner. Yes. Yeah. So that to that point is, if we're in what we call like a 41 alignment which is one rim runner, excuse me and four guys around, around we'll have our trailing guy and it doesn't have to always be the four man. It can be the three, it can be the two, whatever. Brush through. So what we call that is essentially like you, you cut through the middle of the lane and you clip the five man's defender and then he comes up to the elbow and he gets a Catchpoint from there. So really it's an open post at that point, an elbow entry at the open post. And then from there, that's where you go to your different reads. So you know, if you go to the strong side where the guy that had brushed through always empties out. To the opposite corner. We go to our shuffle action and we go to our back cuts and our flex screens and stuff like that. And then a little change that actually will be different. This year is in the past when we went to the same side as your past. So if you pass and filed, for example we did what is called kiss cuts, which were, are basically like a zoom action. But I've tweaked it a little bit this year. I guess that's what happens when you're in charge. You can do that now. You can do anything you want for sure. But I think that, so in terms of the chin the brush through is what really triggers it in terms of it. And there's different things we can do in terms of ghosting that guy. He doesn't always have to hit it. He can set a flare for the guard and go from there, but really the biggest change for us this year with the zoom is not using that brush through guy as much anymore. And I think we really have. a good set of bigs in terms of like our five men, and it doesn't just have to be the five. It can be different guys playing that position. But I think they're really on high Q and high IQ guys enough, excuse me, that we don't need that brush through guys. So basically if they lift up from, the baseline side and catch it anywhere in the top of the key or at the top of the. Three point line. That's going to be our cue with that. Okay, this is our reads. This is where we're getting your trigger to run your shot or your whatever your kiss screen is. Okay. Exactly. It's if you can get kids to buy into the reads and the defense on the slip, the cut, the curl, cut, whatever that is, understand where your shooters are on the floor and you can have so much fun in that offense. And it's so hard to guard. Yeah, exactly. And I think it doesn't matter how much you practice it. Yeah, for sure. And I think that's what excites me so much about this group is that I really don't envision any lineup where we don't have five guys that can make those plays at all times. And yes, they're going to be old, man. That's just gold. That's great. Yes. There's going to be some learning for our freshmen, and new guys and stuff like that. But I think again, when I go back to, the recruiting, like I talked about before of the pace and recruiting to that and that side, You also have to recruit to the specific, system you want to run. And I think that we really have gotten to the point now. And again, this was with the help of coach Randall is, pinning those guys down of just being like, okay, this is exactly how they fit and how they fill in from there. I'm excited. They better not mess it up and disappoint me, but I'm excited. They won't be all in man. Cause you're giving them freedom. You're giving them flexibility to make reads and yeah. And that's the right way to play too. I know old school, bull Ryan swing offense, basketball has value. Don't get me wrong, but the new age of giving guys freedom and, encouraging them to grow. Every single read, right? What they make one read and just giving them the flexibility and the confidence, honestly, at the end of the day to understand, okay, if the defender does this, I should do this. And if the defender does this, I should do this and vice versa. So that's, what's excites me about that way of playing for sure. Even Bo Ryan and in those last five or six years, and I coached, I played against Bo when I was at Co, when he was at Plattville. So I saw those 25 years of transition with Bo's offense. And even in the swing, man, they went to set that swing screen, they cut, they dive, they'd slip, so that's why those Wisconsin teams were so good. They could take that formula and go. We're going to make it ours. Yeah. A hundred percent. So I love that. You use the term violent cuts. That was one of Lance terms. I want people to understand from you that it's not, we're not going through, we're not cutting through the lane, punching somebody. Yeah. It's the idea of. Of what in terms of my action, even if it's not physical, I want it to be physical. If I run hard at you, you're going to jump back a little bit mindset when you guys talk about violent cuts, right? For sure. So we use a ton of hammer actions and staggers and that's really where it started from. Is Jeff. What we call is like hammer jam. Okay. Let's say, my guy in the corner, we set a hammer screen for him. He's going to rip up to try and get a three, but to finish it, the violent second action is rather than, the first screener, just going to the corner and the second screener, just cutting to the rim, we're going to screen again. And that's your violent second action of just, okay, there's. the action and then there's a second layer to the action on top of that and a lot of times you know what we've seen and what we've had success with is that violent second action of That second pin down for the, the first screener, he gets the shot much more than the first guy does. Cause everybody knows the stagger is coming. You see it. Okay. From there, but then, on that side of things and it, and you really create, some good offense and some different situations out of that. And like I said, with the shuffle cut, like if we set a back screen, okay, great. The guy's going to come off the back screen. We know that's going to happen. Okay. But the screener has the violently second action pop hard. And you need that split second indecision where again, if I'm guarding the back screen guy, okay. I'm going to help for half a second or else it's a dunk at the rim. Okay. But don't give that defender time to recover, to help you to guard both basically force them into that decision making process. They're like, man, this dude just screened the heck out of my teammate, so I have to help, but then he just popped just as hard, so now I'm caught in between on that. So I think that's really Where it stemmed from and what we try to do in terms of offensively really with that. Yeah, no, we're not cutting in the lane, throwing elbows or anything like that. A little rub of this good coach. A little maybe a little love tap here and there, but no but no, it really stems from that is that, there's always. A second action, like I said, to what we do in terms of, and again, like it may be as simple as just popping hard. Okay. But the difference between again, when I talk about pace of just doing that half hearted or doing that, just, not all the way bought in, that's going to make the difference. That's where, again, like I was saying before, where pace for me is such a, such an important part when it comes to offense of just, Everything you do has to be bang on that side of things. And not crazy or anything like that, where you're running around like a chicken with his head cut off, just doing it in a way that is effective. And a lot of times it's creating for your teammate just as much as it's creating for you. I teach. I teach a linear offense that, every coach in the country teaches as a defender, you stay between the basket and your man. Yeah. So when I teach, when I'm training a high school kid, a college kid, a pro kid, we're always talking about how do I get that defender out of that line? And so for the young high school kids that are listening to this, that are basketball players, your advice is so great is okay. Okay. Let's say you're not, you don't have the ball in your hands and you're a screener, it's can you get into that space? Can you make a violent screen, a physical motion to get out of that line wherever that defender is where now that passer has space to make a pass? There's more space for those defenders have to make quicker decisions and get to you faster. So I can't wait to watch your teams play. That's fun basketball and it's fun to play if you'll buy into it. So that's great. All right, coach. I recruiting is my game. Now I wrote a book on college recruiting. I I help kids get recruited. I help college coaches find their, find, fill their rosters. I want you to give. A couple of pieces of advice to those high school players out there that want to play at a St. Leo, they want to play for you and they don't know when you're coming. They don't know when you're going to be in the gym. They don't know when you're going to watch their film. What are those one or two things basketball wise that you're looking for that just get you excited about a recruit, what do you want to see when you're watching? Yeah, for sure. And I think the first thing, every coach. Says this and they believe it for sure. But I always say, and it holds true. And this is really what I learned from both every mentor I've had is just competitiveness is the number one, non negotiable like that. I cannot emphasize that enough. Is it like coaches are going to say that, but St. Leo, we mean it like we live and diet and believe it. And I always tell guys in parents in the recruiting that like, if you are not A competitor. And I'll touch on this in a second, cause I think people get what a competitor actually is a little misconstrued is it won't work at St. Leo. Like it will not. And that is not a hard feeling. That is not a threat. That is not a shot by any mean. It's just a simple reality. The situation is, like I said, is it's one of those places that it's in Florida. It's beautiful. It's in the best division two basketball conference in the country. But because of that, Because every single night there is not a drop off that the worst team in our league any year, the very next team could be the best team in our league, like you have to be a competitor and you have to be willing to do the little things. And I think playing hard and being a competitor is very different, right? And a lot of guys think that if I fly around and I dive on the loose ball and I do all of those things. Then I'm a competitor. Yes. That's one part of it for sure. Most definitely. But that's not just what it is. You got to be willing to show up on time every day. You got to be willing to call it your teammates. You got to be willing to learn. You got to be able to go to class and be a representative. That's truly a competitor because you're trying to get better and win in every single thing that you do. So that's the first thing. And We really do thorough background checks on guys and the amount of times that in my time here and I'm sure and going forward as a head coach that this kid might come to my desk with 27 points a game and dive on a loose ball and all that stuff, but he's not a competitor and everything else in the aspects of life and it really that's important to us. Saint Leo is a place that you can ask any parent that. I've talked to that. I recruited I truly believe St. Leo is a place that if you're here for one year, two years, three years, four years, five, sometimes six now with that. You are here to set yourselves up for the next 40 years of your life. And it is a place that the support staff is unbelievable on that side of things. Our resources are great. The gym, the coaches, all that stuff. But really I want guys that. See that, that they're like, okay, St. Leo, if I'm here for one year, two years, like I said, whatever the case may be, it's setting me up for the next 40 years. And that's really, again, that competitor mindset that like how you do one thing is how you do everything right though. Maybe one of the oldest quotes of how you do it, but really I want guys that believe that, that are going to buy in and are going to understand that. And then, obviously the skill part of it too, it is obviously a factor there's I'm sure there's lots of guys that. Have those check marks, but then there's the physical side of it. And the skill part, because like I said, I know you've had other division, two coaches on here, but I will go tooth and nail with them that this is the best conference in the country. It is not even close. Like it, it is. A grind. It is a dog fight. There is a reason why we get so many bounce back division one guys. There's a reason why every single year, our all conference guys go mid major high major plus that it's just that good on that side of the thing. So obviously. The skill part of it too, like I need guys that can really fill it up, like I said, based off the way we can play high IQ guys that, play in different reads and stuff like that. And I think, for us, it's a little bit easier in the sense that a lot of guys and coaches play the way we play now. So they're used to it, right? There's not that big gap where, you're old school. Ball screen continuity or anything like that. Now, a lot of people are playing with zoom and chin and different stuff like that, but really like that, the number one thing is being a competitor and it's being a competitor and every single thing you do, because like I said, playing hard and talking and diving on the loose, down the ground for loose balls, yes, that is an aspect of being a competitor, but for us being a competitor is wholesome. It's being a competitor in the classroom, community. With your teammates, with your family all sorts of stuff like that. Yeah. And I think what young guys need to understand is we might only get to watch you for five or 10 minutes in a live session. And we're looking for competitiveness and tell me if I'm wrong here, but I want to see when the official makes a bad call. Yeah. Come back and compete. Do do you come back or do you fight the official or an arguer? Do you get in and play harder defense? Do you run more harder? If your coach pulls you out of the game, are you still in the game? Are you still focused? Are you still a cheerleader? Are you still active? Are you on the bench pouting? That speaks to competitiveness too, right? We go a hundred percent. Yeah. It's all that, it's every single aspect of it is your success has to be most of the time, honestly, put to the back burner over the team success and being, a great teammate and all those things, cause mistakes are going to happen. Your teammates are going to miss shots. Officials are going to make a bad call, but again, like you can't let things drag on because the best competitors, they're just going to make up for it. They're gonna be like, all right, you mess this up. I don't care. Like I'm I'll fix it myself on that. Yeah, that's right. My shot's not going, man. I'm going to get six offensive rebounds. That's right. I'm going to force three turnovers this half. I'm going to shut my man down this half. That, that competitiveness is so huge and so important. All right. You've had to deal with a lot of parents over the last four or five years. Okay. And we all know that. 99 percent of parents, their heart is in the right place. They want their kid happy. They want their kid healthy. They want their kid to have every opportunity. What advice, when it comes to recruiting, do you give parents or would you give parents if you had the opportunity about how to go through the recruiting process with their kid? Yeah, for sure. The first thing I always tell guys and parents and it's actually funny cause we just had our elite camp on last Friday. So it was a talk that I figured this was fresh in your head at the end. Yeah, no, for sure. Is even if coaches don't respond to the emails that kids send and the NCSA profiles and all this other stuff, like That's your first step that you will never, it's never wrong to send coaches emails. Okay. And I mean that truly, like it really is. And then I think once you start the recruiting process, and you get parents there and yes, there are some delusional parents out there, but that's in any profession. It's not just coaching. I think really, how I approach it with them is, I definitely try to always create a relationship with them, but. Again, I go back to the point that, that really trying to encourage your kids to go to a place that yes, is going to support them and do without a doubt. But really, like I said, like we always approached the relationship with parents and the communications with parents of, like I said, like St. Leo is a place where listen, like you. You have to trust us for the years that they're there of just the sense that you may not be happy with the fact that your son's not playing. Okay. But there's two sides to the story while your son's not playing. So just re rating your coach and just going in there and doing that is not part of it. Or the reality of the situation is maybe he's not good enough yet. Maybe this is part of that plan. And it's part of the situation that. Like I said, if you're coming to us, like our parents, and honestly, we've had a pretty solid parent group in general since I've been here. Again, go back to just the simple fact that I tell them and I told them and will continue to tell them. St. Leo is a place, if you are here for 1, years, it is to set you up to be successful for the next 40 years. And I think, from the parent side of things, is, obviously is, when I have kids and if they're good enough to play college sports, whether it's basketball, whatever the case is, it's you really got to find a place like that, that you've got to understand that it's not high school anymore. It's not, a, you, where you're doing that, like your son, your daughter is given an opportunity to play a college sport, but hopefully it's at a place that approaches that that way. And the success. Rate of how those setting you up for the next 40 years may be very different. We've had guys here that have been here for all four years. And they didn't play till their fourth year, but that fourth year, they were unbelievable. They killed it. We've had first team all conference freshmen that, they've gotten to a level and they were ready there. And again, I think not looking in the mirror, and seeing in the background of, okay, just cause my roommate is playing as a freshman, or just because my roommate is playing more, as a transfer, that doesn't matter. If you're worried about that, you're in the wrong sport, like you're in the wrong thing. Like it is a team sport. You've got to dig in and grind your way through it. And again, like I said, you got to be a competitor in every single thing you do. And that goes to it. Like we don't want the drama, like no coach wants to hear that. And yes, if every coach could play. Every kid, 30 minutes, they would do that, right? We want to see the kids be successful. Of course, reality of the situation is it doesn't work like that, right? There's only 40 minutes on the clock in a college game and you got to go from there with it. Very long winded answer, but really, The initial reach out is important. Like never be afraid to reach out to coaches and send emails. Cause I promise they see it. Even if they don't, I have about 80 unread emails just from today from kids, which is awesome. I love it. Cause they're kids that are eager. You're that everybody, 80 emails today. You're not exaggerating. Yeah, literally like I have 80 emails just from today and it's not even one o'clock Eastern. But then again, when. Opportunity just does present yourself. Just be present in their journey. That's all don't be, a hindrance. Don't be a roadblock. Yes, you can be upset that he may not be playing and you may think he may be playing, but get the full story, get understand. And if you don't like the full story, then maybe it's not the place for them to be, and maybe it's not what you thought. And that's okay. Like that, that is. Part of what college sports has gone to. Like I don't encourage kids transferring 9 million times. Nobody ever wants to see that, but the reality of the situation is if that's what you want to do, that's what you want to do now. And it's part of it. Yeah, I'm the guy on the pedestal with the big drum pounding the drum saying loyalty, because it's not about being loyal to a coach that recruited me. Who's not playing me now. It's understanding that loyalty is reciprocal. You're going to get something out of that loyalty. Yeah, the more you're in a program, the more you're going to understand how to be in that program, how to work, how to be competitive. And you got to build relationships. I'm sure you want all your kids to walk in your office, say, coach, this is relationship I want with you. How do we get there? Yeah. How do I, how do you want me to talk to you? How do you want me to come to you for help? And when you don't do that, when you don't work on building that relationship in your coach, and you bail after one year, because the coach didn't create the relationship with you that you wanted, and you never asked for it, you never asked for help, you didn't go to The manager and say, Hey, will you rebounding for me for 30 minutes? You failed yourself, so I love the advice and you're gonna do so well Koki. And thank you for your time today. I'm amazed that you're getting married tomorrow, so congratulations Thank you. I hope you and your new bride get some time. I hope you get a, at least a long weekend to go enjoy life and be together and but you're gonna have a great career and. I'll be cheering for you every step of the way. Awesome. No, I appreciate the opportunity and I'm looking forward to staying in touch and glad you gave me some good questions to answer. It was fun. I love talking hoops and you're as good as anybody talking hoops with. So good luck tomorrow. Enjoy your day. Thank you. I appreciate it. That's a wrap for this episode of the significant coaching podcast that is available. Audio only. Wherever you get your favorite podcasts. I'd like to thank my great guests, coach Spencer hanky. He's going to do big things in that highly competitive sunshine state conference. He's got his priorities straight and a great mind for the game. He was a fun, fun conversation, and it will be fun watching him grow that program down at St. Louis Leo university. I'm Matt Rogers. Thanks for listening. Have a significant week. Goodbye until next time.