Episode #63: Ceanna Larson-Michalek

🎙️ Building a Winning Program with Coach Ceanna Larson-Michalek

On this episode of Significant Coaching with Matt Rogers, we sit down with Ceanna Larson-Michalek, Head Volleyball Coach at Centralia College, to discuss her journey in coaching and the transformation she's brought to every program she's led.

With 18 years of experience, Coach C has built successful teams from the ground up, including a remarkable turnaround at Blue Mountain Community College and now at Centralia College. She shares her approach to developing athletes both on and off the court, creating a supportive team environment, and empowering young women to become leaders in their communities.

Whether you're a coach, athlete, or parent navigating the recruiting process—or you're simply looking for insights on building a positive, winning culture—this episode is packed with valuable lessons.

🔥 Don’t miss:

• How Coach C turned around a struggling program at BMCC and Centralia
• The importance of creating a family-like atmosphere for athletes
• Her insights on developing athletes for success on and off the court
• What it takes to build a culture of leadership and excellence

💥 Hit play and get inspired by one of the best in the game. And don’t forget to visit coachmattrogers.com for more tools, episodes, and ways to connect.

Significant Recruiting Resources — Take the guesswork out of college recruiting with Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes, sport-specific Recruit’s Journals, and the Significant Recruiting Launchpad. Practical tools to help families research schools, stay organized, and build a smarter recruiting strategy. Learn more at CoachMattRogers.com.

Transcript

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Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Significant Coaching Podcast. I'm your host, coach Matt Rogers, and today we have another rising superstar in the world of college coaching. Sienna Larson Mahalick, the head volleyball coach at Centra College in Washington With over 18 years of coaching experience, coach C as her players call her, has transformed programs with her leadership and dedication to athlete development. I love that. Most recently, she took over the program at Centra College where she's made an immediate impact. She's building a competitive program while fostering an inclusive and empowering environment for her athletes. I. Coach's journey includes stints as a club coach, a high school head coach, a district program director, and she was a college recruitment coordinator at the scholarship level. She's proven time and again that her approach to coaching focuses not just on winning, but on building strong, well-rounded athletes if ever there was a definition of significance. That's it. Now before we dive into today's conversation with Coach c, I want to take a moment to remind you about all the resources I offer@coachmattrogers.com. From my latest book, significant Recruiting, the Playbook for Prospective College Athletes to my blog, where I share insights on recruitment, coaching strategies and leadership. I'm dedicated to helping coaches and families navigate the complex world of athletics. And recruitment if you're looking for more personalized guidance. I also provide recruitment, coaching, and consulting services to help families find the best college fit for their athlete. Maximizing scholarship opportunities and ensuring a smooth transition. I. To the next level, and if you're planning an event, I'd be honored to speak at your next conference or seminar on topics related to leadership recruitment, college planning, and building successful teams. Now let's dive into today's episode as we sit down with Coach Sienna Larson alack to hear how she's leading the charge at Centra College and empowering the next generation of athletes. all right, coach C, you and I had just a great conversation a couple weeks ago. We gotta see each other in Portland and gotta spend some time together. And I was just so smitten with you. we didn't even really know until we started talking that we have something in common and you have one of your freshmen we have in common, right? Yes. No, that was such, it's one of those small universe moments that kind of come full circle. I'd never put the two and two together. I remember seeing your name come through with the email. She has done amazing things as a freshman in our program, and so it was a great fit, but it just was so like, serendipitous of you to look at my badge and be like, I've sent someone to Cent for volleyball, like I'm a volleyball coach. I felt so dumb. I felt so dumb. I talked to so many college coaches every week that, sometimes my brain doesn't decompartmentalize who I've talked to and what school they're from, putting it all together. Use cadence as an example. But talk a little bit about, I, I'm just so curious about this. 'cause this was always my struggle transitioning freshmen, getting them, yeah. Getting them ready to play. And you've just done amazing stuff by getting your freshmen ready to compete. What do you feel like when you look at a cadence and you look at some of these freshmen that have just been rock stars for you, what do you feel is the key to their success and their significance as a player in your program? The humble coach part of me is always it's them. Like they do it. They really, it's the girls that do it, they make it happen. They amaze me every single year. Just their resilience and the way that they can just step in. 'cause I coached at a university for a few years and the difference between that senior athlete that's developed and where they're at in the program is it's it's world's different from those freshmen and it's, what I love so much about this level is you get these kids to come in right away and start to realize their potential early. Yeah. And you get them ready to go on to be those leaders. And they do so much of the work. And I tell the girls all the time, you are gonna get out of this experience what you put in. I'm all in, I'm all in as a coach. Yeah. I'm big on development. I really like to empower my girls to understand the big picture before they leave me because that's something I never had. Going into college, I didn't get the big picture and it was a very like scary and confusing time. Yes. As an athlete. Yeah. It's so scary. And so I always I tell my staff all the time that's where we have to come. We have to meet the kids where they're at when they get here. So you have a different team each year and you've gotta figure out as quickly as you can, especially for us fall sports, to figure out who they are as people. You gotta figure out what their strengths are in this moment and just really try to see how we can develop and we're right out the gate as fall sports. We get two weeks to get ready and then it's same time. Yeah. So how fast can we begin to develop and then continuing to do that throughout the entire season. Like I see a lot of coaches that get about mid-season and they're like, okay, game teaches game from here on out. You still have to teach skill. That's right. And then let the kids integrate that into the game so they can start to see the progress. And so I think we just, getting to know the kids is the key part. And understanding what they bring to the table, what they're excited about. and it really just becomes a melding, a mesh of the two. I'm gonna give you everything I have, you give me everything you have, and together we're gonna create something really amazing. I just, I love that. I have a really great relationship with Cadences, club coach, I love her a lot together. We do clinics together and I work with a lot of her kids. and she's a really good coach and she's really hardcore and does it right, and there's no slack. you're coming in here to learn. You're coming in here to get better. Yeah. But I've been watching Cadence's film all season and watching your games. There's an explosiveness to her, an aggressiveness that I didn't see as a high school player. So you can say all you want. I'm gonna tell you what I tell my high school kids when it comes to recruiting. You gotta put your humility and your modesty on the shelf a little bit. I'm asking you to do the same thing. What are you doing with these kids to bring out that confidence and that aggressiveness? Because that's what it, that's what a D two coach is telling me, Matt. Yeah, you're gonna recruit a junior college kid or a transfer over a high school kid right now because they're mature and they're aggressive and they play faster. What are you doing to get that out? It, the humility hat on the shelf is so hard. It appreciate it. You're really pushing me. Again, it's so much collaborative. Like it really is. And I think more and more each year these kids are changing and it's changing the game of the way that you have to coach and the coaches that aren't getting on board with that, I think that they're really missing the mark. Yeah. Of they wanna understand the game. They wanna understand why we're doing the things that we're doing, what's gonna happen, when we do these things the way that we do them. And so for me, communication is such a huge part of our program. Yeah. We don't do drills just to do them. I remember in high school I did drills where I'm like, this doesn't even make sense for my sport. Like, why do I have to run the mile in a certain amount of minutes when my entire sport is quick sprints? It doesn't make sense. So Coming from a mind frame of what do we actually need? What is important and what is the benefit that's gonna come from the drill, from this activity, and explaining that to the kids. And then they buy in and it's okay, if I get out of my comfort zone and I do this differently and I over-exaggerate it, then as I start to figure out how I mesh what was comfortable as a high school athlete versus what she's asking me to do, that's a little over the top sometimes. the two kind of come together and meet, that's where we find that sweet spot of progress and development and being consistent within it. It's gotta be that series of, we start here and we're gonna progress and add a little bit each day. So we're always circling back to the things that are important. but the girls do it. Like I bring in competitive athletes and they push each other. We talk a lot about iron sharpens iron. Yeah. You're right, I see kids. When I go out recruiting or I sit in on, different practices and they're apologizing to the passer because the passer shanked the ball. So obviously I gave her too hard of a ert, and I'm like, you don't apologize for that. They've gotta learn how to pass that ball. Do you think an opponent is gonna apologize? So we talk about those things too. There's no apologies. Iron sharpens iron. Yeah. She's making you better every swing that she takes at you, every block that they put up around you. And it's me and my development program that I have in my head. But it's them also understanding the outcome of what can happen and really buying in and pushing each other. So I think it is a balance. you look at great college programs, you look at the Olympics, you look at the pros. Somebody shanks the ball. It's I'm coming right at her. I'm gonna keep serving her till she cries. I'm gonna keep serving her till somebody pulls her off the court. That was my big transition when I was coaching men and then coaching women. I had to learn that. I'm like, oh my gosh. they're so coachable. They just wanna learn, yeah. they wanna absorb everything. And the boy's I already know everything, I coached boys for a few years and they are fun in that. Yeah. they're all in and they wanna do the peak of what they see on TV right now when they're still learning how to pass. And I'm like, I appreciate that enthusiasm. But then you walk on the court with a bunch of females and they wanna understand the whole picture. And it makes the difference to be able to map out the big picture for them and then let them start to dissect the little pieces within the big picture. And I think that makes a huge difference. And they execute that mission so much faster than boys. Yes. Don't they? Yes, they do. They do. And by the end of the day, they're going, okay, you told us to do this, we're gonna do exactly this. And they do it, yes. It's great. Yes. Little people pleasers, I call 'em. Love it. Alright, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna come back to this one more time because I work with these 17 and 18, 16, 17 8 year olds every day. And I know how quiet they are and I know how insecure they are. And you talk about the collaborative process and I love that. But there's still the aggressiveness and how we attack and the violence of the attack. What are you doing? is that drill work, is that mental work, is that getting them to understand? I want you to strike that ball, like it's gonna go through them. What does that conversation sound like? Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both really. And when we're talking about, especially when we're talking about attacking, like the girls need to, like we push to be aggressive. We always wanna be aggressive. We don't wanna back down and tip a ball at game point, like trust, we always say trust our training. Like we've done these reps thousands of times, so in the moment we can execute that rep. But I think that the mental toughness piece comes in. They also have to trust each other so themselves, but then their teammates. And so I always frame it as, we want our hitters to go out and go big. They can't do that unless they trust that our Libero or our Ds is right behind ready to pick up a ball if they get blocked. we have to be each other's backup or there's not gonna be that aggressiveness to go all out. My defenders too, they have to trust that my blockers are gonna get where they need to be so that they can line up in the best spot to read a hitter and get a dig. And if my blockers don't get up, then you've left your teammate alone to defend an entire court. And so we talk about those things too. And I think that helps a lot too with that confidence piece. I'm always amazed when I talk to coaches in other sports, I was a college basketball coach and we preached the layers of the defense. The top layer can be really aggressive if they trust that the second layer is gonna be there in help position. Exactly. There's so many similarities On how the, where that aggressiveness can come from when I know I can be aggressive here. I know my Ds has got me, yeah. I love that. and I don't know if we preach that enough, those ideals and being specific as coaches, because I think those are the things that kids really understand. They understand the logic of that. I think that piece gets lost so much in the X's and O's. I think coaches go in and they just think we gotta run. This is the way I want defense to run. This is the way I want offense to run, period. And you have to meet each year with what the kids in your program are successful at. I have things that I like to do as a coach. And it's funny in the recruiting process, I always have, like Sutters for example, their first question is always, do you run a five, one or six two? And my answer is always depends. Yeah. Are we in a year where you're somebody who can execute a five one and we're gonna be successful? Or do we have a surplus of hitters or are we maybe a little too undersized to be able to effectively run a block to defend or protect our defense? All of those things have to come into consideration. So while I might as a coach prefer one thing over another, I have to be willing to compromise and meet where my team's gonna be the most successful. Because if you can't adapt to your talent And you can't adapt to what you have, what your tools are. Then there's no way you're ever gonna be as good as you can be. 'cause you're always fighting, you're always fighting against the stream. if I don't have the size, if I've got nothing but five, four centers, we're probably gonna play a five two. 'cause either of you can get your fingertips over the top of the net. So we're not, you're not gonna be great blockers. This is what I need you to do. And when they're not able to, we just talked about it earlier, but when they're not able to immediately execute what you're asking, the confidence dwindles, and then the confidence in their teammates for them, it's a domino effect of the whole thing. And yeah, we just have to be more flexible as coaches and meet kids where they're at. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Coach, you've been doing this for 18 years, right? This is, you're 18 for you. That makes me feel so old. But yeah, I've been doing over 30, yeah. you've done it all. You got a great high school experience. You got great club experience. You've got D two experience as a coach. What drew you into the game and what's kept you into the game? Because I, I think that's a real challenge right now for coaches because it's so hard, there's so many obstacles against us. What brought you in and maybe what's changed to keep your motivation going? Yeah. This was not where I saw my life path. I went into college thinking that, I wanted to do one thing and I'm currently not doing even what I majored in. And so much of it is you have to be passionate to be successful doing what we do, because let's be honest, the pay isn't there. The recognition While you're hyping me up today, the recognition is not always there. The. When text messages come through with, from my athletes and they're like, Hey, coach, can I come in and talk to you today? I never think, oh, this is gonna be a great conversation. You come to me when you need help or there's a crisis. And you have to love it. You really have to love it. you have to see the value in it. And I think I came from a perspective of, I didn't learn to coach from my coaches. I learned what I didn't wanna be as a coach from my coaches that I had growing up. I didn't learn how to coach even from the head coaches that I coached under. I learned how to coach by sitting in rooms with other coaches, by sitting with the football coach and listening to the way that he runs drills. And the purpose and how that affects their quick twitch muscles versus, and you talk to baseball, softball, soccer and you take little bits and pieces from everything that they're doing. And I really had to dive in and teach myself a lot of the things that I do now. And I think from within that I've really learned how important what we do is, I remember being a freshman in college and how scary it was, and I didn't really have people that sat down and said, this is the way that this works. This is the path forward. Life's gonna go on. We're gonna make new decisions. And the path forward goes, whichever way you want it to go. And I find so much value in this level in particular because they are freshmen and sophomores. They are first time away from home. They are making difficult decisions and living life away from their parents. Being able to help set them up for success or keep them on a path where they're gonna get to where they always dreamed of getting to is so rewarding. And, that's why I do it. And I think if coaches are in it for their own recognition or they want the winning season because they did it. Yeah. You didn't do it. Your kids did it. You guided the kids to get there, but they did it. Listen, I appreciate your humility more than it's a great reason I wanted you on, 'cause the respect I have for you in a very short amount of time is immense. But let's be honest, you took over a job in 2023. Literally you got hired and you had about a month before the season. Two weeks. So you didn't get a chance to bring in your own kids. You didn't get a chance to develop 'em over the season. You didn't have a chance to build relationships, you didn't have any of that. You've gone from year one to year two, you've improved by 16 wins. There's a thousand new college coaches in the country this year, and they're all taking over programs for the most part. 99% of 'em are taking programs that are at the bottom of the league. Really rough situation. And they're all trying to do what you did in 24 months, in less than 12 months. is there some fingers you point at what the decisions you made in that first year that you can say that was the difference. This is what I learned in year one. This is the changes we made to get ourselves to year two. Can you pinpoint some of those? Yeah. year one was tough. Like you said, I came into a team that already existed and, I. Again, you're gonna hate my humility hat, but like those girls, I came in as a new face, had no idea who I was. our returners that, that group of sophomores had a fairly poor experience prior. and I came in and just said, this is what I wanna create. This is what I value in my program. I want us to be a family. I want you to develop, I want us to get out of this what you want out of it. And I put it on them as if you want to have fun and work hard and forget the losses 'cause it's gonna happen. We had nine girls on the team and five of 'em were DSEs. And it was like, all right, let's figure out how to hit in the front row today. That's what we were gonna do. And. Maybe we can't put a ball away, but we're a team of dss so we better be pretty good at Serve and Pass. And so again, you pick up what is successful for them, and then you just have to keep reminding them that what they're doing is important, that they have value outside of wins and losses. and for my freshmen, what do you want the experience to be next year for all of our incoming freshmen? And so we have those honest conversations of, this is, it's not gonna be what you wanted it to be, but we can make it better. And they really bought in and I appreciate them so much for trusting me, and allowing me to really just develop a space where we have these seniors coming in and visiting. And no, the wins weren't there. we won two whole games that whole season and. I was buying all new nets and balls and ball carts and jerseys and like we were basically wearing five-year-old t-shirts. Yeah. Last year, to play games in. And so you were digging dirt just to lay the cement. We were, you didn't have a roof. You were still digging the dirt. We were, but we had a campus community that was so supportive and really just wanted to see some change and wanted to see progress and is they really do take tremendous care of our students and our faculty and staff. And so I had that backup. I had the backup of, look, our volleyball program wasn't great, but here's what we're trying to build. Here's the support that you're gonna have here. And I really credit those seniors like cadence for looking at that and again, trusting me to come in when there was nothing to trust. And really buying in and turning it around. So I think to pinpoint it's. Again, just those honest conversations with kids and figuring out who they are and what's important to them, and how we move forward together to start to meet. We were only gonna win two games, so what are different goals that we can meet as a team where we're gonna finish this season feeling fulfilled, that everyone's gonna feel that they were important, that they had value, and what are your goals after here that I can help you attain that are realistic and really just start to set that foundation. So it's a, it was a lot of trust, but also just a lot of knowing that, I've built up programs in the past and these are the things that were important. And so just trying to drive that home with them. It's so cool. You look at your stats. That first year, you went into every battle with a knife and everybody else had ozzi and tanks. Yes. They did. Every game was oh 3, 0 3 0 3. You look at this year, you win 18 games and 11 of your 13 losses. You took two sets or one set. Yes. You were right there. Yes. You were points away from winning 11 more games last year. To me it's not the 16 win difference, it's how competitive you made that team in 12 months. That, thank you. That's really cool. Thank you. It's really impressive. I appreciate that. Credit the kids, which I know drives you nuts, but it doesn't drive you nuts because I'm the same one. it's the kids have to do it, but again, we gotta lead the horse to the water. I think it too is being very aware of who you're bringing in to the program. Yeah. in the recruiting process, I'm looking for good people first. That's always first. I want those kids that. Wanna be a part of a team that understand that it takes everybody, if you're that kid who's more concerned about how many times your name shows up in the newspaper because you had so many kills and forget about the rest of the team, as long as my name's there, that's not a championship program. It is the kids that want to be a part of something. The kids that understand that they represent our sport. For all of those young girls looking at them that wanna continue to represent the sport as well when they're that age, good people was so important. And then the athletic piece comes in and yeah, you have a solid foundation of skill, but if you don't think that you have space to improve, I can't do much with you. You're not gonna come in and just coast, I'm about development, so I need that kid that's bought in that wants to develop and knows that they're, there's more to it than where they're at right now. Being selective in that process, I think also makes a really big difference. how much of that did you get by being able to coach at the scholarship level? at Dakota State? did some of that get, did some of that get solidified and really fortified that I wanna recruit this way? Or did you get to see that through your experiences? No, I really learned it in time. Yeah. While I was there, I walked into it thinking, I've done everything you could do at the kindergarten through 12th grade level, and I wanted a challenge. And, I got there and the head coach said, you are the recruiter. You let me know when they're ready to sign. And so I had never recruited before. I'm like, can you point me in a direction of what platform do you use? Where do you start? And she did. But I just, I started asking questions. I'm talking to other coaches and I'm like, what works for you? I always wanted to be in a room surrounded by people who are smarter than me. And I'm that as a female especially, I think you're that quiet, unassuming person where I can just sit in a room and no one really realizes that I'm in there just absorbing it all. I'm not a part of the conversation. I'll giggle every once in a while and try to comment when I felt like I could, but for the most part, I was just in there taking it all in and hearing what worked for other people. And as I was hitting the road and finding these kids, like Dakota State is one of those where you have your varsity and your JV program, and so we're looking for 30 kids. We have 30 kids on a roster and not everybody's gonna play varsity. So how do you find those kids that are gonna come in and make an immediate impact and then also have the balance of those kids that are gonna come in and develop and have to wait until they're a junior or senior to be in that program. And those kids that are gonna develop, those are the ones that you really have to have the buy-in and they have to have that patience to wait. And I think that's where I really learned a lot of that is you have to find those kids Who wanna develop and understand what it means to be a part of a team. And that you're not, you might not come in and be superstar year one. That's just not the reality for every athlete. And I think that helped me a lot to be ready for this level of, okay, now you do get to come in and have a starting role as a freshman. I'm not gonna guarantee it for you 'cause you've gotta work hard and earn that every day in practice. But it helped me create a better balance to be able to do. This at this level with the financial assistance that we have. Yeah, so I credit a lot to starting big and then working my way down, if that makes sense. Not, I think the NAC is incredible, but to go from a 30 team roster to now I can have 15 to 16 of my or kids And really make it work. I think that helped a lot. Yeah. I had this conversation with another coach the other day. It's not really going down or up, whichever direction You go. In terms of division level, it's really about. Finding that fit for you, where your wheelhouse is, where you feel like you can make the biggest difference. And yes, we both know how many great coaches are at every level, and especially in the nac. Yes. And you're earning the description as one of those great coaches. But what you're doing now, I wanna talk about this because I was in a room with you two weeks ago and dozens of athletic directors and coaches, and the first question I asked is, how many of you were taught how to recruit, how to build a budget? Were you the person that kind just kept your hand down or did Yes, Matt, I was the person I started, I honestly just started jotting it all down because for me, with where I'm at now, like I've had to teach myself to do all of those things. But I also, it helps so much for you to list that out because I've also realized like I am a head coach and I do have a staff, and if they ever want to be head coaches, I have to do better. Giving them more than I had when I started. And so it was just a really great reminder of here's all the things that I'm not currently sitting with them and asking if they understand how this works. And I need to be better about that, of giving back to my staff and being a little bit of a better mentor on the coaching side and not just on the athletic side. and that's why you're going to continue to rise and do great things because of your humility, because of your understanding. Oh, I just learned that. I have to share that now. 'cause I think that's our biggest problem. And this is where wherever I speak, whether it's in high school with families and high school kids, or I'm speaking in front of a college and athletic directors and coaches, one of the things I constantly talk about is we have to coach our coaches. Yeah. Our coaches have to coach. They have to share their knowledge. I want every athletic director to have a staff meeting every month where they're picking a coach and saying, okay, coach, what's your master? What are you really good at? What can you teach the rest of us in this department so we can all become masters of that, yeah. I just don't think we're doing it. No. There's little pockets that are doing it, every once in a while, but most of us, and you're learning to be the athletic director and the coach. And how overwhelming that is. You're just trying to figure out where do I have time to put something in my mouth for nourishment and maybe go to the bathroom that I've been holding for three hours and when do I get to sleep at some point, right? Yes. Are you in the office next to me? Know Exactly. I've been there. I understand. I remember my first year as a head coach where I was the head coach and athletic director. It was just like I get to the office every day at seven and I leave every night at nine, and then I go home and I do two more hours of work. Just so my wife can see that I'm actually at home, even though I could do the work, yes. So how do you do that? So what are some of the things you're learning from an executive function perspective, just to keep yourself organized? Is there things that you've started doing in year two that you just didn't have time to do in year one? You're like, I'm tired. I'm not gonna repeat that every year. I'm not gonna keep rebuilding that form that I know needs to get done. Are you doing some of that? Yeah. My staff and I, we really try to lay the groundwork for setting up, especially now that you can archive so many things online, just through spreadsheets. We've got the things that we just duplicate every year. and that kind of helps keep things a little better organized that way and just starting to develop more processes and procedures for the different things that have to get done. And I think my biggest thing I. Because, and again, I started college coaching at a university where you have all of these people and resources to do different jobs. And then coming to I think junior college coaches don't get the credit that they deserve a lot of the time because we are doing more with less. Yes. There is less funding and, we are a little bit of a, we're a smaller school compared to the numbers that are at a university. and so you have to do more with part-time coaches or with part-time assistants who have full-time jobs and how do you balance that? And I've had to really learn and be better about delegating instead of doing everything myself. I really have to empower and teach people how to do it. And I have to also be okay when it comes back and it's not done the way that I would've wanted to have it done. And let's, how do we, then we have those meetings about how do we make this better and more streamlined for next year and really have to let them figure out how to help me too. it's so tough as someone who is used to having full control, to be better about delegating, but to be really successful at this level. There's so many people that wanna step in and help. There are those head coaches and assistant coaches and volunteer assistant coaches that wanna learn all the things that you listed out. we have to remind ourselves that they're capable and they wanna learn it. And I need to allow them to learn in a guided way. the things that I taught myself, it's almost like you have to take your young assistant or a staff member that's with you that you, that's a helper or support staff. And it's almost like you have to get to the point saying, I don't have time to do this. I don't need it polished. I don't need a finished product. But this is what we need. We need a travel document so every coach can fill out their roster, what time they're leaving, who's hurt. Where they're gonna eat if they need a hotel room. I want all that in a one sheeter. I want you to give me, that doesn't have to be perfect, but I wanna see a list of everything that we need on that sheet, and then we'll come back and we'll construct it the way we wanna construct it. it's that type of mentality. I remember doing those things going, we have 12 different travel forms. None of them make any sense. Some of 'em are four pages long. Yeah, there's no continuity to when the ad gets to see it, when the kids get to see it, who's building it, right? So it's almost like, all right, every year I'm gonna get two or three of those documents done. Two or three of those processes and procedures done. Are you feeling some of that? Yeah, and I, I talk to my athletes all the time about we're not gonna go from point A to point Z in one day. Like it's 1% better. It's one letter at a time to work our way there. And it feels so silly, but I'm like, Sienna, as an administrator, it's 1% better at a time, and I have to be, you have to get excited about the little wins. No, we haven't solved all of the world's problems yet, but we made this one document more efficient. We asked the question of why are we doing this the way that we've been doing it? I just think collaboration and being okay with those little wins. is so important. We're gonna get there. It just is one little thing at a time, and we don't, I don't think as coaches we use the word liability often, but often what we're really trying to do is get one piece of liability off of our shoulders and out of our head. Every kid's got an insurance document. it's electronic. We know if they get, we know what their injury history is, we know their medical condition. We have all that in our phone, or we have all that in a folder. It's just one less thing that you have to worry about. So now you can worry about volleyball, you can worry about the health of your players, the growth of your players, right? Yes. Absolutely. And I think that's what it comes down to. How can I take some of these big things that scare the heck out of me? How can I take them off my plate so I don't have to be scared about 'em? Exactly. And then you have the space to be creative with other things. on a day to day basis, now I have the capacity to take something new on that's gonna just continue to develop and better the program, the college of the department. And that's why I'm enjoying coaching coaches and doing the consulting I'm doing is because I get to speed up that process. I get to take an athletic director or a coach and say, okay, you don't need me to coach your team. You don't need me to help you build your program in terms of your practice plans and what you wanna do to win games. But let's see if I can take some pressure off you. So the three hours you're putting into this every week, let's see if we can get it down to 20 minutes. Yeah. So I look back, my first head coaching job was 25 years ago, And I go, why didn't anybody just help me out? Why didn't somebody throw me a bone and say, Hey, do it. Do these five things this way. Yes, it's gonna save you five hours a week. My first couple of years it was like my husband and I would look at each other July 31st and it would be like, all right, I'll see you at Thanksgiving. And a little bit here and there in between. And it was just like, he's surviving the season the same way I'm trying to survive the season. And it's, you just have to develop those processes that work for you where you can start to eliminate time and really be able to set those boundaries. Like I very much value my family time. And so I make it a point to regiment my day, hour by hour, so that I get the important tasks done. And then when those emergencies pop up, I can pivot really quickly. Deal with those and then I can still go home and have dinner with my husband. And yeah, sometimes we gotta put a movie on and I gotta bust out my laptop. But we're there and we're present or as present as we can be day to day. And it's not perfect. There's been years where I haven't had time, I felt as a coach to worry about my health and it was like, that'll, we'll figure it out later. And so you really just have to develop and set those boundaries and carve out pockets of time for the things that are really important. 'cause you, yes, I am what I do, but it's not who I am at my core. And it's the same for our athletes. Yes, you are a volleyball player, but you are so much more than that. and we've gotta teach those skills I think early on because it gets really hard when you are working and starting a family and, trying to also set bigger goals and just being able to delegate and regiment It's a learned skill, that's for sure. Yeah. And your health is so important. I think I was probably in my early thirties where I finally said, this has to be a priority for me. I have to get on that treadmill three days a week. I have to be in that dark room with, an elliptical. I'm gonna, lights are off the door's locked. Nobody knows I'm in there, but I'm gonna get 30 minutes on that thing. That's my priority. Unless there's fire and somebody's dying, I'm gonna be on that. you just have to make that commitment. that was really hard for me and once I did it, I never looked back. It is just, your health has to be important. Yeah. And I wanna talk about your husband a little bit because I think we realize as coaches more than any other couple, I. We made a good choice because coaching shows us, we married the right person, doesn't it? Yes, it does. It does. And it's so funny to be, because so many of my coaching friends are male. And so I'm on the opposite end where it's like I'm a coach's wife and I show up at every game and I'm like, I'm the coach. my husband is the coach's wife. And that poor guy, he sits in the gym every home game and love it. He just, he's there and he's so supportive, but he also is able to check me out of the coaching role. Like I can come home and vent and bounce ideas off of him, but at some point he's okay, let's be married. Yeah. I'm not married to coaching. I'm married to a woman who coaches And so he is really helped me mature in that too, of being able to separate. And so I think, like you said, you have to have that person that gets it. And understands that this is a passion of yours. Like you are in it for, all of these different reasons and money's not the biggest one of them. So having that supportive person behind you, makes a huge difference. It does. it really does. and it makes it all worthwhile when that person can accept that passion, yes. Accept that. All right. I'm not happy about it. I never get to see you. I'm not happy that, your mind is always in 10 different places when we are together, and I have to bring you back home. But I'm with you 'cause I love you. Yeah. I'm in it for the long haul and it's a great realization. I woke up 10, 15 years ago, we'd been married probably 12, 15 years at that point, and I was like, what am I worried about? There's no doubt she loves me. There's no doubt she's not going anywhere. She's put up with this. Yeah. She's not going anywhere. This is real. Yes. And I don't know why it took me so long. I don't know why that just, that light bulb went off and I was like, all I think this might be serious. I think we might be onto something. I might be pretty dang lucky. Very lucky. Very lucky. I think we're all very lucky, but to have someone in our corner that, that accepts it and gets it and is so supportive. Yeah. 'cause it is hard. There are days when he'll text me 'cause we, sometimes we have to schedule it. Yeah. And it's this is the time that we have together. And so then when we're together, I have to be very present and I need to do that for him. Absolutely. Because he is willing to let me not be present in so many key moments of my season or throughout the year. And it's sometimes it stinks to have to live by a schedule, but he'll text me and say, Hey, you're supposed to be home already. And I need that. I need that check or otherwise I'll just continue to work. Yeah, me too. let's talk about recruiting 'cause that's the world I, a lot of, the big part of the world I live in now, and I know you've gotten really good at it and you've learned what you want and what you don't want, and it's only gonna grow. Are there certain things that, when you see a film, as I tell kids, if you're gonna sound coach, see a film, you've got about 45 seconds in that film, or she's gonna move on, what are you looking for in those 45 seconds, that minute when you're gonna watch 10 film today, 20 film today, when do you wanna see before you go? Nope, that's not for us. Yeah. I think the overall is, I'm really looking for the energy and the effort. And I think there are some kids you get blocking film and a ball's coming over the net and they don't even jump and you're like, why didn't you jump? Maybe you weren't in the right spot, or maybe they hit way over you, but you had an opportunity to potentially block that ball or intimidate. Yes, absolutely. So I think the effort and the energy within the video is really important. Okay. We're always looking for that solid foundation of skill. If I can see that there's things that I'm like, I like that I can build on that, that's important. I think when you have like a hitting video, if you have an athlete who's going up and they are only swinging to zone six and it is just one swing after another at the same spot, it's like I as a coach, I don't know if you can hit anywhere else. So variety I think is really important. I think, and I have this conversation with DSS when we do camps that are skill specific, every kid loves to make that amazing play, right? We love to dive for a ball and it's a great dig and we put the, and we put it away and it's, it is exciting. As a coach's exciting. I'm not gonna take that away from any kid, but when you're sending me film as a DS and every single ball you have to dive for, at some point I have to look and say, are you actually good at reading or are you just lucky? Because if you were really good at reading, you wouldn't have to dive as much. You'd be able to get there. And sometimes when we flop on the floor, we're just making that hitter look really good. Did you, that hitter really knocked you on your butt or did you just do that 'cause you thought that was the motion you're supposed to make? And we talk about those things too. And I think that, some kids don't realize or aren't taught some of those things. Yeah. Again, this relates to basketball. I can't tell you how many times I've told the basketball team if I see you on the ground, unless it's a loose ball and you're diving for that ball. I'm questioning your balance. Yes. I'm questioning, your strength. I'm questioning your vision, how you're leading. And volleyball. It's so prevalent because I'll see girls, they're just, they're on the floor every time I'm just shaking my head, everybody's cheering and if there's a college coach watching, they're going, oh, she could have got to that ball. she should have been in front of that ball before it even got to her. You love the kid, that makes it look easy. Like they get the dig and then it's almost like the finger comes up that's no, not today. And you just, you thrive on that. As a coach, that's what you want is that ability for them to make that read. But again, I don't wanna take away, there are big plays where when we talk about it in our gym all the time, diving is a last resort. If you have to do it to make the play, do it. But if we can get our feet there and be more in control, that's what we want as a team is to have that read and control. Yeah. We all love that lib that's playing back and gets to the ball on the left side of the court. Yeah. She had to lay out to get it, but she got it up in the air and so that's great. But can you read the play and get your feet there and make it easy? Yeah. Because if it's easy, it's a two or a three. Yeah. If you're diving. It's a zero or one, right? Yeah. And I appreciate the kids that put errors in their film. I do. Cool. Like I love that I get videos all the time of a six rotation outside and they serve, receive, and it's a great pass. And then you see that the setter is setting 'em and they cut out that clip right before they swing. And I'm like, 'cause you hit it out of bounds. I'd love to see you hit it out of bounds. I'd love to see what happened with your shoulder and if I could tweak something or if there was something with your hand or even the set let me see those things. But as soon as you cut it off, it makes me think there's things to hide. And then you wonder why that is such a great point for teenagers because here's what they don't understand. You love coaching, you love teaching. Yes. Every opportunity you get on film to go, I can fix that. I can make that better. Yeah. I'm gonna take a chance on you 'cause I can fix That's right. Yes, that's right. I see everything I wanna see. You missed it. You made a bad ball, you made a bad pass, you shank whatever, but you did everything right. And I can fix that, that 1% or that 5%. Yeah. So you don't do it again, so you don't do it consistently. Yeah. Ah, such, so important. It's so important for these parents to hear and so important for these kids to hear that. Talk to me a little bit, and this is why I'm so impressed with junior college coaches. Talk to me a little bit about your approach to building those two years. Because if you're only focused on this year's class and you're not already thinking about, what do I need this year? What am I bringing in? What is strong? what is weak? What do I gotta make up? When you're in a gym watching club, and maybe there's sixteens here, seventeens here, maybe there's some eighteens here. What is it that you're just keeping your eye on and you're making mental notes long term for? Are there things that you really wanna see to get that kid's name on your paper? Yeah. I might be different from a lot of coaches, but I wanna see a kid fail. Yeah. I wanna see how you react when you fail. When I have a kid that I see go up and they just rip a ball right into the block and they turn to their teammates without dropping their head or saying anything like, my bad is something that drives me crazy because it's no, it's your better. What are you gonna do? The better the ball, how are you gonna respond? so I wanna see that kid that, we made a mistake, but they're locked in with their teammates and they're like, all right, next play. the earlier that you see that, I think the more exciting it is as a coach. And at this level too, and at the high school level, I see a lot of coaches who are, my tallest kid is my middle automatically. And maybe that's not where they're gonna be the most dynamic, but it's this old school, way of thinking of, my shortest person is this and I. Are they di at this level? Are they dynamic? I have no problem with a cadence who's five foot six hitting in the front row if she's fast enough to beat some of our slower blockers that we play. Sure, they're six foot one, but if you can beat 'em and hit into a seam. You can be successful at this level. So how dynamic are you? How adaptable could I make them in different positions? Do I see them somewhere where I'm like, man, if they would make this tweak, this kid could really do something for me in this position versus that position. And so I think you just have to, you really have to get creative and just find those kids that have that solid foundation that you're willing to continue to develop. when I'm walking the courts, I'm listening to parents and I generally go to these things. I say, I'm incognito. Yeah. I'm just hanging out in sweats. And I'm listening to parents and if I walk past a court and I hear that this parent is just dragging one of the teammates that's on the court, I'm gonna hyper focus and hear who they cheer the loudest for. 'cause now I don't want that kid. Yes. I don't want that parent in my stands cheering against any of my players' teammates. And so I think it's so many different layers of looking for athletes, but at this level, it's really just how can we adapt and make them better so that they're gonna go somewhere bigger than they thought they could. Outta high school. Yeah. That's always my goal. Yeah, you were talking to D threes, but can I get you to a point where now you're talking to D ones or D twos, how can I help you improve? How do we do that? How do we get, and how do we get those kids that come in as freshmen? How do we get them to 24 months from now, getting them ready to play at that next level? Are you seeing that in the recruiting cycle? Are you seeing that at 16 or 17 saying they're not ready for that yet, but if we can do this, we can get 'em there. Is that your mindset on the recruiting trail too? Yeah, I think that you can, and there's probably, d one coaches that are way better at it than I am. 'cause they're making those decisions when they're, sophomores in high school and juniors in high school. They make those mistakes too. Yeah, they do. And it comes down to when I have those initial conversations with kids, it is, you are gonna get out of my program what you put in. And you can almost tell when you're having that conversation. Is that kid checked out in that moment or are they like, okay, yeah, bet. Bring it on, bring it coach C. Yes. And so I think you have to, there's a little bit of reading and understanding the energy that they're giving back to you when you're having those conversations that I think. Helps in the read of can I really help that kid get where I think I can help them get to? and some of it is just taking a chance. I'm just gonna take a chance that I'm gonna help you get as far as I can, and maybe it's not gonna be the dream that you thought of, but we're gonna find you scholarship. We're gonna find somewhere where you fit the best, where you're gonna be cared for the way that you are cared for in our program, and continue to have that great experience. it's a hard balance, but it's learning how to read the kid. how much of it comes down before you make that offer? Do you want to see and almost hear? I'm gonna help myself. I'm gonna give you all, I've got to help me get where I need to be. Yeah. Do you need to hear that and see that? I do. I do. And I, for me too it's also the academic side. Like you have kids that come in and they're like, I just wanna play volleyball. I'm like, okay, but if you aren't going to class, no matter how much development I do on the court, you can't go on and play 'cause they aren't gonna recruit you with a 2.0 GPA. Sorry. But we gotta be able to back it up too. So do you have the ambition to also get your degree and take pride in that? I talk to my girls a lot about, my grandma instilled in me, taking pride in your education. Your education is the one thing that no one can ever take away from you. And I wanna see that passion in them too. Are, do you wanna get a degree, do you wanna go on to continue playing? Tell me what your long-term goal is. but do they see it for themselves? Because I can't see it for you. I see it for you, but Yeah. If you can't see yourself getting to that, then you aren't gonna be motivated to put in the work while you're here. and I need someone that's gonna be willing to just dive in and trust the process. it's almost like we have to teach these kids, and maybe we had to do this 20, 30 years ago. Maybe you and I needed this too, but I can see myself in a uniform at Nebraska, okay? I can see myself in a uniform at Penn State, but can I see myself in the process to get there? Yeah. Can I see myself running sprints? Can I see myself in the weight room? Can I see myself doing the two hours of study every night? can I see myself collaborating with my coaches and my teachers and asking questions? Yeah. I think I have kids in the recruiting process that. One of their first questions they ask me is, what do your jerseys look like? I'm like, that's what you care about. So we care about the dollar number that I can give you, what your jersey is gonna look like, what the locker room looks like. Is the gym up to your specifications for where you see yourself playing? What's your experience past day one? What happens once you're three weeks into practice? Are you still a valued member of that team? Can you go to the coach and ask for help? Do you feel that you're supported by your teammates? Is there the academic program that you wanna be in so that you're invested in going into class? Let's think past the initial excitement of recruiting and really think about what do you want out of your whole experience? Because you could go somewhere big and sit the bench there's programs that have 30 kids, and so their practices are two or three courts, and you might be on court two or three, where the head coach never even looks at you. Is that the experience that you wanna have? Or do you wanna come in where you're gonna be cared for, where we're gonna develop you? Where I can promise you those things. And it's hard for some of those kids and even parents to look outside of the initial, yeah. What does it look like? What does it look like to post on my Instagram that this huge university wanted me, but I'm gonna go there and sit and quit after a year when I could have come here and been the dude. if you can't reach those families, those student athletes, and really have them see that, then they're gonna go wherever they go and have the experience they have. But the kids that are able to separate it and really understand what we're gonna give them and the support that we're gonna give them, they're gonna come in and they're gonna do the amazing things that Cadence does in our program. Yeah, it's amazing. if a kid, the first question a kid asks me is, what do our uniforms look like? Or how big's our locker? Or, can I start, I'm just like, Hey, I'm sorry we wasted your time, but this is not gonna be a good fit for you. It's like, why am I spending another two hours with this family when you've just opened your mouth and told me you're not gonna survive here. You're gonna hate playing for me. We just don't think like that. And I think kids don't realize we can make the program what you want it to be. When you get here. you want a new set of jerseys. Every time we do a new set of jerseys, I ask my kids their opinion, what we vote as a team on what our travel gear looks like for the next year. we're pretty collaborative. You're gonna get those things once you're here, I think a little bigger picture. I want a kid to walk into your office and go, coach, can we watch some film together? I'd love to get your thoughts on what wouldn't that be amazing? Heck yeah, dude. Let's watch some film. Lemme show you why I like you. Lemme show you yes, you can get better at in the next six months before you get here. I love the kids that ask those questions. Why me? Yes, why me? Why did you wanna have a call with me? I love it. Yes, please challenge me to tell you exactly what it is that I saw and where I see you fitting in. I'm never gonna promise playing time to anybody ever. I'm just not that coach. You might come in and you decided that you were gonna eat potato chips and hang out at the lake all summer and you didn't work out, and now there's somebody else who busted their booty and they're ready to beach you out. So I'm never gonna promise that. I'm gonna promise you the experience that you're gonna have and then you've gotta show up and make that happen too. You gotta meet me halfway. those kids that ask those tough questions. I love that. That's who I wanna recruit. That's I do too. That gets me excited. Yeah. All right, coach, gimme one piece of advice for families that are starting this process, they wanna play for you, they wanna play in college. What's that piece of advice they need to hear, they need to understand? mine again, might be a little different from other people. I would encourage students to really think about, and we just talked about it, but what do you want your overall experience to be? Because again, if it's just volleyball, that's gonna be great until it's not. And so really thinking about from the relationship you have with the coach or the academic program that you really wanna be in, how far away from home is comfortable for you? And really start to think about those things and then shape, who you're talking to based on that. I think there's a lot of, like collecting offers is a really big culture right now and. You can collect all the offers you want, but if it's not the right fit, you're wasting your time too. And then I think the second part of that is persistence. I try really hard, but I can't be everywhere and neither can my staff. And so if you're interested in our program, reach out. I think so many people think that the offer just comes that I'm just gonna be at this tournament and these coaches are just gonna walk up to me. And it's not the reality. If you want it, you gotta chase it. And so email me if I don't respond. Email me again if it's another like email until they tell you no. And as soon as they tell you no, check 'em off your list and start on the next school. But if you don't put yourself in a position to be recruited, it's really hard to get what you want. Yeah. A no is a victory. That's a coach. That's a coach in a school. You don't have to spend your time on anymore. You can put your energy elsewhere. Always a victory. Just as much of a victory as a we're interested in you or hey, here's some feedback. All three of those are victories. is there a piece of significant advice that you'd like to share with our audience that you've been given over the years that you find yourself, and it doesn't have to do with volleyball or recruiting or anything like that, but is there just something that you think, this has been really important in my life? Surround yourself with the people that will defend you when you're not around, I think is a really great piece of advice. I think we tend to, We always want those people that tell us yes, and validate us, but it's so much more important to have the people that also challenge you. And we can walk into a room together and we can debate things or talk about what's right or what we feel. But as soon as we both exit the room, we're, you're that united front, outside of where you're at. I think that applies to teammates and friends, to assistant coaches, to staff. I wanna be challenged, I wanna learn from other people. I wanna collaborate, but as soon as we leave that space, do I have the people around me that we're all gonna stand firm together? It might not have been the decision that you wanted, but you understand why we're going in that direction and we're all gonna stand together on it. I think that's important. Be the person who defends others when they're not in the world. Yes, that too. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's just not enough of us. There's not enough of those people that are gonna say, Hey, we're friends. I've got your back. Yeah. I'm not gonna let people talk bad about you. I'm not gonna let people misunderstand you when I have the ability to say, Hey, no, that's not right. Absolutely. I love that. It's such good advice and it's such good advice for young people to hear, we got a problem with 40, 50, 60 year olds that don't get that right now. Okay. Yes. It's more prevalent than ever. It's we have to understand what's right and buy into what's right, and we have to speak up about what's right. And things always change. If you are, if you're at a point in your life where you're like, I don't need to learn anything new. I've got this. I think you're in the wrong. There's always, you can always, we have to adapt. The kids adapt. We have to adapt. As coaches, we have to be willing to learn. There has to be a passion in not being the smartest person in the room. The day that I don't want to be coached anymore is probably the day that I'll walk away from coaching. I just can't stay stagnant in it. Tell your husband he is got nothing to worry about, You blew my doors off in seconds when we started talking and you've done it again. When I gotta spend another hour with you, you're gonna do such great things, coach. You've got a friend in me forever. you can call me up anytime and say, Matt, I need you to shut up and listen. Or We need to talk, or he need some help and you've got it. But, I wish you so well. Thank you for the effort that you've put into the girls that I've sent you and just the conversations that you've had with them, whether they play for you or not, I'm just really thankful to have you and my world and so thankful that you're in the world of these young people. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that the universe brought us together in the weird way that it did. It's been great. you do amazing things for these kids too, so thank you. I try my darnedest, but, I'm always happy when I get them to someone like you, because I know whatever I've done, it's only gonna grow and get better. So keep it up. Thank you. I appreciate that. And that wraps up another fantastic episode of Significant Coaching with Matt Rogers. A huge thank you to Sienna Larson Alack for joining us today and sharing her insights on coaching athlete development and program building at Centra College. It's clear that her passion and leadership are making a powerful impact on the athletes she coaches. And it's exciting to see the success she's cultivating both on and off the court. Before we go, I wanna remind you about all the resources available@coachmattrogers.com. Whether you're a coach, a parent, or an athlete, navigating the college recruitment process, my book, significant Recruiting, the Playbook for prospective college athletes is packed with strategies to help you take control of your recruitment journey. You can also check out my blog for tips and insights or reach out for one-on-one recruitment coaching and consulting. And don't forget about my speaking engagements. I'd love to connect with you at your next event. If you enjoyed today's episode, be sure to subscribe to significant coaching with Matt Rogers on your favorite podcast platform so you don't miss any upcoming episodes. If you found value in our conversation, take a moment to leave a review and share this episode with someone who could benefit from it. Thanks again for tuning in. Until next time, keep coaching with purpose. And remember, great coaches are made by the impact they have on their athletes' lives, both on and off the field. I.