Episode #81: Dan Mickle on Recruiting

🎙️ Significant Recruiting Podcast – Featuring Dan Mickle

In this episode, I’m joined by Dan Mickle, Head Volleyball Coach at York College of Pennsylvania and a certified mental performance consultant. We dive deep into what it really takes for volleyball players to stand out in today’s recruiting landscape—and it goes far beyond stats and highlight reels.

Dan shares:

• How mental performance plays a critical role in recruiting
• What coaches are looking for beyond talent
• How parents can recognize when their child is struggling mentally
• Tips for helping athletes play with joy, confidence, and purpose

Whether your daughter is navigating high school, club, or starting the recruiting process, this episode is packed with perspective every volleyball family should hear.

📘 Now available on Amazon:
The Softball Recruit’s Journal – Your step-by-step guide to owning the recruiting journey with tools for communication, visits, decision-making, and more. Volleyball edition coming soon!

🌐 Learn more, listen to past episodes, and schedule a free recruiting or coaching session at: coachmattrogers.com

Transcript

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I want an email from your email account to my email account, Gmail school account, whatever that may be. Yeah. I don't want it from your recruiting platform. I'll be honest, my email is set up and it's filtered anything that comes from all. Recruiting platforms and I'm not bashing them. They serve their purpose and I absolutely get them. Yes. They all go into one inbox and everything else goes into another inbox. And that first inbox gets the looks first, and then I move to the recruiting website emails. Welcome back to another bonus episode of Significant Recruiting. I'm your host, coach Matt Rogers. Today's episode is different. It's honest, it's bold, and in some ways it might make a few people uncomfortable, but that's kind of the point. When I sat down with Coach Dan MiCell, head volleyball coach at York College of Pennsylvania. We didn't just talk about volleyball recruiting. I hope you'll stick around to the end of today's podcast because we did talk about something. I believe many in our world of college athletics are afraid to address the ways that public expression of your personal beliefs can impact your recruitment. Now, let me be clear. This is not a conversation about judgment. We are not telling people what to believe nor criticizing how anyone makes their choices, but. What we are doing is pulling back the curtain on a real truth for recruits and their families. When you post something online, no matter how genuine or well intended, it becomes part of your digital footprint, and coaches are watching. Coach Michel and I went there. We went into the darkness, into the uncomfortable, into the, aren't we not supposed to talk about that zone? Why? Because if you're a young athlete with dreams of playing in college or a parent helping that child on that journey, you deserve to know the full picture. You deserve to be informed about how your online presence may affect your opportunities, even when maybe it shouldn't. So buckle in. And just a heads up, this is part two of my conversation with Coach Mickel. So I encourage you to go back to Friday's episode so you can fully understand how a college coach evaluates their roster and how they build culture and community. Coach Mickel is great at it, but for now, this is one of the most layered conversations we've ever had on the show. Here's my conversation with Coach Dan Mickel, York College head volleyball coach, USA volleyball, Paralympic coach, sports psychology expert, and someone who isn't afraid to talk about what really matters. Let's get into it. Coach Mickel, thanks for being on today. You and I just had a great conversation on coaching and mental performance, but I really want our audience to get a great sense of how you think about recruiting, how you recruit. I know that you told me that you, right now, you're roster sizes around 21 and you brought in nine freshmen. Let's talk about that mentality. Where does that start? Why the 21? Why the nine freshmen? Yeah, so my typical roster size is around 18. What we ran into is I, we just have some injuries that I'm just not sure, are we gonna be good to go at the beginning of the year? So I could walk in with a roster of 13 that are playable if I didn't recruit heavily. And the other part was there's just. Some really good talent that was available to us, and I would've been kicking myself if I saw them in another uniform. Yeah. And the plan was, the plan started during the recruiting process being very open and honest with everyone saying, look, we're gonna have a big roster. Not only do we have 21, but I only graduate two, positive is this is gonna be our group for a few years. Yeah. But just getting everyone to understand look, you're gonna have to work for this. If you're not the type that's going to fight and work, then this isn't gonna work for you. I don't care if you're a senior, I don't care if you're a junior. It's gonna be who's gonna give us the best team? And that's subjective, right? That might change from week to week, night to night. And maybe some of them won't agree with the decisions we make, but it won't be because of lack of effort right now. And but everyone coming in knew, Hey, this is how many we have in your position. This is what we're looking at. This is the long-term plan. As long as there's truth on the front end. We know that competition is the cure for complacency. We know kids are gonna come in and they're gonna have to give their best because if they wanna play, they've gotta, they've gotta work hard. A lot of my questions are really designed for you when it comes to recruiting. If I put you in a gym or put you in your office watching film. How much weight do you place on a recruit's mental game? Things like resilience, focus, composure compared to their physical skills a ton? Probably more than most because for me athletically, such a fine difference between players and their skillset. There can be a huge difference between their mental mindset to set them apart, and I think we're really good at coaching the skills of volleyball. So I feel like if we have someone that comes in with a good mindset, it's easier for coach them the volleyball that we want them to play than to coach them the mindset we want them to have on the team. The mindset could hurt. The culture of the program a lot more than being bad at volleyball. On the other side of that, are sometimes you looking for a uniqueness of that mental side of that kid that can make your team stronger as much as you're looking for the red flags. Yeah. I have a player coming in this year that was gonna play on a top team, but another team. And the program was going to fold because they didn't have enough players, and she opted to play with that team to help that team not fold in a position that she's not going to play for us in college. It's rare that you get a big beacon like, yep, you pick the right one. But that's absolutely a sign like, yep, this is exactly what we should be recruiting. She absolutely put that program and that team and those girls before her,'cause she could have just stayed on that top team and played her position and, been whatever. She didn't love that. That gets me so excited too. It's a great transition into this question. What does fit mean to you when you're evaluating then and can a player highly skilled but still not the right fit, fit your program. Absolutely. It's tough to define fit. Yeah. You just know it, right? Yeah. When you have it. I'll tell you my secret for recruiting. I don't wanna spoil any of your questions that you might have, but I almost always show up day one, not wearing any of my school stuff. I have my headphones on, so I'm not hearing anything. I'm just watching the body language, what that player's doing, how they're interacting. I'm not being biased by what parents might be saying around me or what I hear going on. Most of the time they don't know it's me because I'm not wearing any of the York stuff or whatever, and it just gives me a chance to see them. Without them knowing I'm there. And that's where the fit part comes in. What are you like during the timeout? For me, that's huge. What are you, like in between matches? What do you like in a timeout? How do you take correction? I always liked Who are you looking at when things go bad? Are you looking in the stance for mom and dad? Are you looking for advice? Are you looking at your coach? That, that, that's always so huge for me. Yeah. And are you looking at yourself ex Exactly. Are you, and I love that. I'm not a big fan of the players that like, redo the play. Like you miss a pass and then they stand there and do the pass motion like three times. I'm not a huge fan of that, but I like when they sit there and go, okay, what could I have done? If I can't figure that out, then I'm gonna ask my coach or look at my coach. Yeah. And you can, and some people I'm like how can you tell? Like you can tell. Yeah, you can tell when a player's on the court and they're thinking through it versus being over critically of I'm horrible. I suck at this. You can just see it in the body language and the tone when they're actually working through trying to figure out versus being overly critical of themselves. Okay. Let's give some advice to parents. Got a kid that's doing that. I've got a kid, she'll shank a ball and she'll, she'll do the motion three or four times. It drives me crazy too. You got a kid that's beats themselves up and they, you can see that they're going down a hole'cause they shanked one or two or Mr. Serve. What advice do we give to parents that they can give their kid and they can have a co healthy conversation about how to deal with those situations? As a player, you just give it some time. If you miss a pass, cares. Now, if you miss three passes, now we gotta have this talk. We're so quick to over adjust. For one simple mistake, you pass 300 balls in a tournament, it's your 301st ball, and you pass it bad, and then you're gonna dwell on it, but you pass 299 of them perfectly right? Or adequately, so it's just a matter of, come back to me when this mistake happens again. And that's even something I do with my team, not just like when I'm looking at recruiting, is what happens after that mistake. Is she dwelling on it? And if she is it because she's upset that she missed it or is she actually again, trying to figure out what went wrong? And if it's that kid trying to figure out what went wrong, we have to tell them growth happens from the mistakes. Yeah. You don't have to reflect on it now. I really, and I watch a ton of club volleyball like, like you do. I love the kids that respond with energy. They go, all right, that was mine. I want another one. Bring another one. They don't let their energy go down because of a bad play, because I think that's sinking into sand, that quick sand, now I'm gonna, now I'm gonna get small. I'm gonna let my whole energy get small because I made a mistake. Nope. I wanna see that energy go back up. Do you like that? Yeah. I like to see the throttle down. Keep the energy going. Yeah. And sadly on the recruiting trail, you see it so bad the other way. A kid will make a mistake. They know that I'm standing there and then they go small. Yeah. I just messed up. They're not gonna want me. No. Everyone messes up. I wanna see how you recover from it. That's right. Because that tells me more about you than your actual skill is how you recover from it. Are there any not obvious red flags that are an immediate, I'm taking this kid off my list. I know they can't play for me. I know that this is gonna be a pet peeve or an issue for me. I struggle connecting with silent ones. Yeah. The ones that'll make a mistake. Then just go to the end of the bench or hide and you would think it might be the opposite. I don't mind the confrontational ones. If you are arguing. If I see you arguing with your co Now I should say there's a difference between arguing and advocating, right? If you mess up and the kid is hey, I went for it. This is why I went for it, and I'll go for it. And there's that argument with the coach. I respect that.'cause you're passionate about what you're doing. There's a difference if you're like, I'm not doing that play. This is, bs. You know what I mean? So it's there's that fine line. But I deal I find I can deal with the confrontational players a little bit better than I can with the silent ones because the silent ones you I just don't know, are like, are they just upset? And at one point they're just gonna completely unload and explode and it's gonna be this big mess. Or are they scared to say something and afraid and, so it's tough. So not only that I would say it's a complete red flag, but if it's a toss up, and I'm looking, that's something that's gonna sway me is are you passion enough to fight for what you believe in you did? Tell me if I'm wrong, or tell me if you see this differently, but for me. Trust is such a big part of recruitment. I need to be able to look at that kid and go, I can trust you. And we talked about this in the beginning of our conversation. I can trust that when I think you're hurting and I ask you if you're hurting, that you're gonna tell me, yeah, coach, I can play, but my shoulder's bothering me, my knee's bothering me. And the quiet ones, I'm worried that I'm gonna be able to build that trust with them. Yeah. It's almost like they're so scared to say the wrong thing. They don't say anything. And I need that data. Like I need those conversations so I can build my profile of you. I have, I literally get probably 30, 40 emails a day and trying to parse all these kids. Sort them before you even get a chance to look at them. It comes down to what are you saying to me? Yeah. My daughter's club team, there's 11 girls and 10 of them. If I say, Hey, great game, or keep your head up I get a response back. Thank you. Thanks for being here. Appreciate that. And then there's one that won't say a word to me. I won't say thank you. It's like I'm not even sure she heard me and we were looking at each other in the eyes and I'm so wor that's the kid that's got the most potential to play college volleyball outta the whole group. And I'm worried that she can't communicate with coaches. Yeah. And I think this is where I run into problems where it gets blurry between the sports psych side and the college side for me is I. Then I start to worry. It's what? Shut her down or has she always been shut down? Yeah. Or did she have a coach that was just always yelling at her? So now she just doesn't want to talk Because and I don't worry, I don't worry so much that kid won't be a fit, but that's usually a sign that they're headed for burnout. Yeah. So then it's not always so much the, is this kid a fit for my culture? I go in to invest a year or two years of my time and then his player's gonna wash out because they just don't enjoy it anymore. When you're getting 30 to 40 emails and 10, 15 phone calls a week from kids that wanna play for you, do you really need to put much energy into a kid that's, that you automatically are like, I'm not sure if I can coach this kid. I don't know what it's gonna be like to coach this kid. And that's. I have very specific questions that I ask when we have that phone call, when we start things off, that typically help me gauge that to try and break through that wall to find out, are you just shy? Are you just introverted? I get that and I appreciate that and I can work with that. Or is it just going to be. Struggle, constant struggle every day in the gym. Yeah. Am I am I going to have to fight just to build a foundational relationship with you to get to figure out who you are and to figure out how I can coach you, right? Yeah. Yeah. One of my biggest things, and maybe this should have been on the other half of the podcast but it comes down to the recruiting side, is. Short of having to call 9 1 1 for a medical emergency. Once you're on my team, I need to be your first call for everything. Yeah. Your meal plan's not working. I'm your first call. You can't get the class you want. I'm your first call. My car broke down on my way back from my inter I'm your first call and it's not because I'm going to fix everything, but it's because. I'll help you, but I also need to know what's going on. And when you have the big moments where they need to call you, then it's not hard for them to pick up the phone, right? Like I might be failing a class. Okay, you need to call me first and we'll talk about how you need to talk to your professor. I. It's much easier to have that than the, Hey, I got busted for underage drinking last night at a party. But if we do the low hanging and the easy conflict first, when it is, hopefully it never is, but when it is a big issue, that phone call's easy. Yeah. So that's what I look at when I'm recruiting and I know that's looking maybe at the bad side, but am I able to have a conversation with this kid that I'm recruiting if something goes wrong? Is that the vibe I'm getting or is it not? Let's talk about communication a little bit more. I teach my clients, the kids I work with to send an email. And I say that's important because the coach needs your information. They need to know where they can find your film and your grades. They need all that. But if you're not having a phone call or a face-to-face conversation with that coach. Getting a chance to hear their voice and their tone and their energy, and giving that coach a chance to hear your voice and your tone and your energy. Something's wrong. In the last five, 10 years, texts, dms, social media, someone has told these families that's more important to be on social media for recruitment. Where do you stand with the ever evolving world of communication and recruiting? I want an email from your email account to my email account, Gmail school account, whatever that may be. Yeah. I don't want it from your recruiting platform. I'll be honest, my email is set up and it's filtered anything that comes from certain all. Recruiting platforms and I'm not bashing them. They serve their purpose and I absolutely get them. Yes. They all go into one inbox and everything else goes into another inbox. And that first inbox gets the looks first, and then I move to the recruiting website emails. Yep. I was, same way. We're on social media. I'll look at social media, but I won't recruit through social media. If you DM me, I will maybe send you like, Hey, here's my email, or here's our recruiting questionnaire, but I'm not gonna have a conversation over social media. Thank you. It's just, it's crazy it's just, it's not efficient. But more importantly, it's hard to go back and look at information by the time I go through all my dms and I look, I don't remember who that middle was that I just talked to two days ago with an email. Everything's tagged. Like I tag every email that comes from a recruit, what year you are, what position you are. And whether or not you filled out our questionnaire. Yep. Everyone's tagged. Yep. The social media, I just push now from a visibility standpoint. Sure. Like my team I'll tell you anyone we look at, I'm very open. Hey. This recruit's gonna be on campus. This is who we're looking at. My team scours social media, because they don't want anyone coming into our program that doesn't fit our culture. Yep. So by the time it gets to me, they've already been vetted for the most part. And there absolutely has been. One of my players says, Hey, this recruit you're looking at, just post a whole bunch of videos of her drunk at a party, at 17 and. That's a deal killer for me. There are very few deal killers for me, but, and I get it, we all went through high school. I'm not saying everyone needs to be perfect. I just don't need the whole world seeing you getting drunk in high school. Yeah.'cause if you're gonna do it, then what are you gonna do when you're under my care? So like that and drug use are just an absolute killer for me. Yeah. Everything else. Might, go in the pros or con lists and we'll figure it out. Yeah. But those two are me. But that's been the downfall of social media. Yeah, because,'cause here's and here's another secret, and everyone's gonna get upset about everyone makes these, Jenny Smith, 26 accounts, that's the name of their Instagram account. Jenny Smith 26. Then we scour and we find Jenny Smith's real Instagram account that isn't her volleyball recruiting account. And that's what we look at. That's right. And we'll find it too. We will every, everyone will and again, for the most part, nothing's really gonna take you outta my range unless, like the drinking thing's just really tough. Yeah. It's just. It's a hard environment to bring someone in, knowing that they're already gonna be an issue with that. For me it's politics and religion because I appreciate that you've, you have a political leaning. I appreciate that you're religious, but if you're constantly pouring it down my throat on social media. I'm probably walking away from you. I don't care if you're the best six four middle I've ever seen. It's gonna create conflict in my program. It's gonna create conflict with me and I can go either way. If I've got 18 kids in my program and nine of'em are Republican and nine are Democrat, and nine are Jewish, and nine are Catholic, and I don't care that, that I don't care. But if you're using social media to dump your value system on everybody that's listening, I'm walking away. Those are interesting for us. Like we, in our conference, we have a few teams that are religious schools in our conference. And from a team standpoint, we're usually all over the spectrum of levels and I don't know if that's just phased its way out that we don't even really talk about anymore, but everyone's just like. Hey, I'm gonna do my thing. You do your thing and it's not even an issue. Yeah. And we've gotten really com'cause it could be awkward. We play certain teams that, that pray after a match and they always invite the team, Hey, would your team like to pray? And I always tell my team, that's up to you. It makes no difference to me whether you want to join them and pray with them or not. I'm totally down. Do what you wanna do. And I love that. You want to. It doesn't affect anything. I'm not gonna think highly of you. Less highly of you. That's right. It's a nothing for me. But they are very comfortable with, Hey, I'm gonna go pray with this team. Okay. I'll wait to have my talk. And that's, and for me, that's what it is for me. All's I care about is if everyone's gonna go or no one's gonna go, just changes. Are we gonna have a talk about the match we just played now or are we gonna wait? That's right. And I don't want you to feel like it's gonna affect you anyway or the other. That's right. I've had parents flat out ask me, especially now what's your stance with transgender? Athletes, during the recruiting process. And it's been like this is what the NCAA in my school tell me. That's right. Sorry, my dog's going a little crazy in the background. If you can hear that, don't even hear. Don't worry. Yeah. It's, yeah. That's the biggest thing. That's a big trouble now with recruiting is Yeah. That's a flashpoint for a lot of people. And for me, it's, that's my simple answer. It doesn't matter what my opinions are because I'm governed by the ncaa, I'm governed by the school. I'm not even on any committee. Yeah. That would even roughly think about that. Yeah. I'm the most open-minded coach you could imagine. I want a great kid who can play. And I don't have to worry about you in the classroom. If you're those three things I am happy to recruit you, yeah. It's, if I feel like you're gonna be a problem for the culture I already have, or you're gonna be a thorn in my side in any way, I'm gonna wish you all the best select, but you're not gonna be a good fit for us. Yeah. When you're looking at the sheer numbers of recruits and people that you're looking at. Every little data point matters. It does. And again, it's not about the beliefs either way, fine with whatever. It's just how you deal with it and how you present it. Two quick ones, and these aren't really quick ones, but I want to get your thoughts on it. The role of how you evaluate parents when you're recruiting a kid, you have to be a really bad sport parent. For me to have that effect Recruiting your daughter. But it has happened. Okay. I don't like holding a player accountable for their parents, but if the actions of the parent are going to take energy and attention away from me, that's not fair to me, and it's not fair to the team. Yep. I agree as, as long as they're not bigger than their kid or acting bigger than their kid, or acting as that their needs are more important than their kid. I'm all for it. I love it. Just because it's so important, I think it needs to be beaten into the heads of everybody that listens to this. What's the role of academics for you in recruitment, even though I probably already know the answer, I want you to say it. I'll answer this in a non-direct way to start. We just got our team GPA for the year, and it's a 3.55 team GPA with four, four point ohs on the team. Fantastic. Wasn't, and I wasn't happy. We typically have been the highest or second highest GPA of any athletic team last eight years. And we've dipped this year. I'm proud of them. They all worked really hard. No one's on probation, no one's even close to, any academic ineligibility, but we just have such a high standard right now. That being said, I have three nursing students for exercise science majors, so it's not like it's basket weaving, that, that we're having the issue with. So they get a little bit of a pass on that. For me, that has to be number one because if I recruit you and they're the most, you're only as good as your availability. And if you're not good academically, what good is recruiting you if you can't play? Yeah. That's really big for me. We try our hardest to make sure that every recruit gets on campus to sit in on classes before they commit to us. This is what it's going to be like. I want you to have this visit, even if it's not an overnight come for the day. I've never had to do a study hall or anything crazy. They just do it. Like it's just expected that we're going to have a high GPA. But it's how you're recruiting. You're purposely looking for those kids that can come in and have those routines and they have high expectations for themselves in the classroom. Yeah. And it comes down to by degree too, if I have a nursing student come in, I. I evaluate her academically different than if I have a sports management student coming in because it's a different workload. It's not, that one's easier than the other, but sports management doesn't have a clinical, like I literally have players that go to clinical from 4:00 AM until 3:00 PM and then come practice at 4:00 PM Yeah. That's different. And that wasn't a misspeak 4:00 AM in the morning to 3:00 PM Ian. And here's the part and I've had great conversations with my nurses about this and it really opened up, not only are they doing these 4:00 AM to 3:00 PM like these 12 hour clinical shifts, they're seeing nasty stuff. Some of them are ICU nurses. Like you literally just watched someone died before you come to practice. I never would've thought about that. Like I just think like you're doing your clinical and like I've had players come in, I'm like, go home like a player want. She looked completely exhausted. What happened? I was in the ICU today and I literally watched a baby die as part of my clinical. Go home, go to your dorm. Go do whatever you have to do. I don't care about the game tomorrow. You're still starting. Go home. That's right. So it's like just understanding what they go through as students has been huge for my recruiting process because I'll tell kids like, I don't know that you'll be able to handle this load. This might be tough for you. Yeah, coach, it's fantastic. And I just, I wanna make this point because I brought up religion and politics. It, I know you're the same. We don't differentiate by race, by color, by religion, by sexuality. Any coach that's doing that should not be in the business. They really shouldn't. Yeah. But it is a matter of how you handle it. It doesn't matter if you're straight or gay, it's how you handle it and what kind of person you are and the character. Are you kind? Are you generous? Are you a great teammate? Are you somebody that understands student before athlete? Are you somebody that understands empathy? And no matter your religion, no matter your politics, at the end of the day, that's what coaches are looking for. And it's important that we're not allowing those really high character points to decrease because of our faith, because of our politics, because of anything that might be, might hurt those characteristics. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. No and if anything, it also gives us an opportunity to learn. And that's how I look at it. I'm not naive to the fact that I'm a 50-year-old white male coaching college volleyball. So I love to learn what is it like being an athlete of color on my campus? What can I do as a coach to make you feel more comfortable? And that's hard too but that's part of the recruiting, because I'm recruiting players that I might not be familiar with their socioeconomic or their background. That's right. So I. Maybe that's why they're on the team. They are had nothing to do with their ability. They're on the twos team because it's a single parent family and it's tough to make ends meet. And they're a heck of a player and they're gonna be awesome, but they're getting overlooked'cause they're not on that top team. But it's not because of talent. Yeah. And the last point I know this is rapid fire and I don't wanna hog up a whole bunch of time, but it, for me, it all boils down to I made a shift. We made a shift a few years ago. We really rely heavily on certain clubs. Like we know which clubs teach and attract the players that we like. That's right. So they're always my go-to when I'm looking for a middle player, I gotta find a middle for next year. I'm calling those same six clubs that I always club'cause I know they're coached. I know they care about the kids and typically the kids coming in fit our program and all culture. Yeah. I no longer am doing the needle in a haystack, looking at 3000 middle recruits from all over the country. I'm cashing in on those relationships with the clubs and the coaches that I know well, they're clubs. They're recruiting. They're recruiting like you are, and they're literally probably doing, looking for similar kids that you're looking for. You hope. But there's also clubs out there that they'll feed you the line of BS'cause it looks good for them to say, oh look, we got five kids going on to college. The, the six coaches or club directors that are gonna give you the straight scoop. Dan, I don't think this kid's a good fit for you, Dan. I don't think this kid fits your culture, Dan. I don't think this kid's gonna be happy at your right. Yeah. Yeah. I've absolutely had coaches that say she would be great, but I don't think she's a fit for your style. I don't think she's a fit for your culture. Yep. And then on the flip side Hey look, I know that this girl's undersized for an outside or a middle, but I'm telling you, she will grind and make it worth it. And nine outta 10 times, that's what's happens. We get that kid that people passed on because they were just athletically looking, but I. Trust the coach. Coach, you're awesome. I hope you know how much I respect you. I hope you know how much I've enjoyed our friendship over the last couple months and getting to know you and just very much appreciate and respect who you are as a person, as a coach, as a dad, as a husband, and just thankful that we have you in this world and keep doing what you're doing and, if you need anything, you've got me and I'm always happy to help. I'll send you the check in the mail for that one. Again, appreciate we, we have to have these conversations. We, there just has to be more conversations like this going on. Thanks, coach. Have a great day. That's a wrap for this week's significant recruiting podcast. Thanks again to Coach Dan MiCell for joining me today. What a great conversation. I learned so much, and I'm so thankful that Dan's willing to have. Those big picture conversations that I think every parent, every coach, every student athlete needs to hear. So thanks to Coach. If you wanna learn more about his work and performance psychology and coaching, visit dan mickel.com. You'll find great tools for athletes, coaches, and teams. And if you haven't yet, check out my brand new book, the Softball Recruits Journal now available on Amazon with two awesome covers to choose from. It's packed with tools to help athletes take full control of their recruiting journey. You can find the journal free resources and schedule your free recruiting strategy session with me@coachmattrogers.com. Until next time, lead with significance, live with purpose, and as always, own your recruiting journey.