Episode #103: Brandon Elliott on Recruiting

 🎙 “Which Kid Wants It More?" Recruiting Lessons with Brandon Elliott

🥎 Virginia Wesleyan University’s Brandon Elliott has built one of the most successful programs in NCAA Division III softball—3 national championships, 11 ODAC titles, nearly 700 wins, and back-to-back trips to the College World Series. But when it comes to recruiting, his message is simple: the athletes who show they truly want to be there are the ones who stand out.

In this episode of the Significant Recruiting Podcast, Coach Elliott explains what coaches are really looking for when deciding between two equally talented players, how genuine investment and communication can set a recruit apart, and why “want-to” often outweighs raw ability. His insights give student-athletes and families a clear picture of what separates prospects who get recruited from those who get overlooked.

For families navigating this process, I’ve created tools to help you take ownership of your recruiting journey:

📚 Available now on Amazon:
 

• The Basketball Recruit’s Journal →  https://amzn.to/428PDQd 
  
  
• The Baseball Recruit’s Journal →  https://amzn.to/4lO9ivT 
  
  
• The Volleyball Recruit’s Journal →  https://amzn.to/45I3WOb 
  
  
• The Softball Recruit’s Journal →  https://amzn.to/4lSXY1E 
  
  
• Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes → https://amzn.to/4nXiTCO
  

🔑 You can also find all of these resources at https://coachmattrogers.com/.

Significant Recruiting Resources — Take the guesswork out of college recruiting with Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes, sport-specific Recruit’s Journals, and the Significant Recruiting Launchpad. Practical tools to help families research schools, stay organized, and build a smarter recruiting strategy. Learn more at CoachMattRogers.com.

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which kid is recruiting us more, right? Is we're gonna be all in on those kids. But of those, if I've gotta decide between those two kids, which one of those kids has shown that they want to be here more than the other because that's gonna be the biggest piece. If you're coming just because we want you versus you want to be here, that's gonna be a distinctive difference for us. Welcome back to Significant Recruiting. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. You just heard three time National Champion Coach, Brandon Elliot, head softball coach at Virginia Wesleyan University, and I love the way he framed it, which kid is recruiting us more. At the end of the day, coaches want athletes who truly want to be on their campus, not just because the program is interested in them That level of commitment can be the difference between getting recruited and getting passed over. And speaking of commitment, I'm excited to announce that the Sport Recruit Journal series is officially out today for basketball, baseball, volleyball, and softball, and they're all available@amazon.com or@coachmattrogers.com. These journals are designed to guide any student athlete through the recruiting process, helping you stay organized, focused, and prepared for every step of your journey. They're the perfect companion to my book, significant. Recruiting the playbook for prospective college athletes. All right, let's dive into the second part of my conversation with coach Brandon Elliot. Okay. we just had a great conversation about your program and about what you've done to build that culture there and protecting that culture. I want to dive into recruiting with you because I know it's such a big thing that you do, and it's such a big part of what we all do as college coaches. We talked about great pitching and you gave a lot of love to your pitching coaches over the past. This really goes back to helping a parent think about the recruiting process the right way. You got two pitchers, you love you. You think they both can come in and be a big part of your program, but you really only have a spot for one of them. What are some deciding factors when you're making that decision to make an offer? Talking about two kids. Same ability? Yeah. Let's say they're both righties. We'll do apples to apples, both righties throwing 62 63 mile an hour. Both can hit the strike zone. Both throw three or four pitches. Both of 'em throwing. If both of 'em are throwing 63, I'm gonna take 'em both. All right. Let's say they're both throwing 59, but I think it comes down to, comes down to final spot on your roster, right? And you're looking at, and it's got, and you got two kids. The most piece for me really is gonna be in which kid is recruiting us more, right? Is we're gonna be all in on those kids. But of those, if I've gotta decide between those two kids, which one of those kids has shown that they want to be here more than the other because that's gonna be the biggest piece. If you're coming just because we want you versus you want to be here, that's gonna be a distinctive difference for us. It's so important for a 16, 17-year-old to know a, as much as we want them to be 50 50 in this, that you have to choose the school as much as the coach has to choose you. You cannot be so vague with your emotion and your love of the game and where you're gonna go, that you forget that. You've gotta want that place, you've gotta want those people just as much as they want you. No doubt. Yeah. It's just relationship. That that's what it boils down to. And everybody says you gotta be 50 50. There's some days at home that I'm doing 75, my wife's doing 25 very minimal days, but there's some days that she's doing the 90 and I'm doing the 10. And it's, are we adding up to that? Because that's what does it. And same thing with recruiting. Like early on it, it might be 95 us and 5% you. As we're building relationships, we're getting through this. I also need to know that I'm wanted as well, because that's gonna have a kid that's gonna really buy into what we're gonna do culture wise, what our goals and objectives are. And that's also gonna be a kid from a longevity piece is, I'm not trying to recruit two year kids. I'm trying to recruit four year kids. Yeah. And so if a kid's that is the place I want to be, that's where I want to be. That's who I wanna play for. That's the women I wanna play with. That's a big deal to us. Yeah, it should be. I love that. I have some rules about social media. 'cause 10 years ago, if you would've asked me about social media, I'd say, I don't want my kids on it. I don't wanna be on it. Now I'm on everything. But I have a rule that I don't get into arguments. I don't get debates. And I hardly ever comment outside of, Hey, congratulations, way to go. But there was a. There was a prep school coach that put something out on Twitter the other day, and he was all upset that one of his kids got an offer from a D three coach. They go, how can this guy lie to these kids about an offer when there's no scholarship at D three? He was so upset about it and I had to respond 'cause I, I wanted to strangle him and I couldn't, I didn't know where he was, so I wasn't gonna strangle him. How do you feel about the offer that you're able to provide a student athlete? What does that mean to you as a D three coach? First of all, we're, if that's what it's is we've gone to a place where offers, the word offer's been thrown out there, right? And offer as in scholarship and then from a division three piece, even for me, it was saying, Hey, this kid came and she visited and you didn't offer her. I remember saying a couple years ago what do you want me to offer? We need you to offer. I'm like, I told her we want her here, we want her a part of the program. And that was very distinctive. That, but you didn't say offer. I'm like, oh my gosh. And so for us it's like understanding that we telling a kid at the end of their visit that we want you here. If you wanna be a part of this program, we want you here. And that's a spot for you that's involved with that. And when it comes to offer, as long as, I think his thought process and it, and I'm just guessing, but I think his thought process in this is maybe people were saying offer, and then families thought that there was money involved with that. Whereas if you're visiting and you're communicating the right way as a division three coach, you know that you're communicating, there is no athletic scholarship and so you should be going as a part of that in your visit, in that part of the process. Yeah. And so if you're doing that and making sure that they offer. What can they offer? We're gonna talk about the academic piece, but they don't have to play softball here to get that. They're going to get all that for us. It's offering them an opportunity to be a part of our program, whether they wanna see that as a big thing or not. If they don't see it as a big thing, then they're not gonna come anyway, right? But it's an offer to be a part of our program and what comes with that? What's gonna come with that is two things that I promised kids in our visit is number one, as Coach Elliot and our staff, we're gonna bust your tail. And number two, we're gonna love you. Those are the two things that I can promise during an offer. You come here and play for me. I'm gonna get everything I can out of you, more out of you think you can get. And number two, I'm gonna, I'm going to love you. And those are two things I can promise. Graduating on time, winning a championship, doing all those things. I would love to say it 'cause every women in our program's done all of those things, but I can't promise you 'cause those things are hard and the academic piece is on you. And so that's really, when we talk, offer, that's what it's a spot opportunity to play in this program. I'm not sure what else you could say that it's you can say it's offering your spot or. You're getting an opportunity. I don't know what verbiage folks want you to live and be in, but until you've been in that part of the business, I don't think you really understand anyway. To me it sounds like a person that doesn't understand D three athletics. It's not intramurals where anybody that comes to campus can just have a jersey and beyond the team. You're busting your butt, whatever it is, 20, 25, 30 girls, whatever your roster size is. It's important for you that you're filling that roster with great people who can play and make your team better. And everyone's making their recruiting decisions based off their non-negotiables that are unique to them. And to, to that coach's point, if finance, if finances are the number one driving force for that child and that family to make their decision. If that's the only and the number one driving force and they have opportunities to get athletic scholarship, junior colleges in ai, whatever it may be, if that's the number one driving force, then maybe Division III isn't for them. And that's what I try to tell people is that's okay. It is okay. That is your non-negotiable. So what are your non-negotiables in this process and how are we ranking them? If it's opportunity to go out and play right away, then let's find a program that you're gonna play right away. And if somebody else that you're not gonna play for makes you an offer, a financial offer, and you don't want that 'cause you wanna play right away, then that's what you wanna do. And that's okay. 'cause that's up to you If it's, I want big school. That's great. We're not for you. I want football. I've heard that before. I gotta go to school that has football. Okay. In my opinion, I don't think that's a, an area where you should be making your decision on, but this is a four year decision for me. It's a lifetime decision for you, so you need to make a decision for you. And I try not to put people in buckets when they're doing those because everybody's decision making is gonna be based on what their non-negotiables are with their family dynamic and what it is. And that's okay. That's what makes this thing great and there's so many different places that you can go, but it's looking at that and, in a perfect world if a kid has put themself academically in a position or a family's put themselves in a financial position, that the money side isn't going to matter. Those student athletes also need to understand how very blessed that they are. Step mom and dad have put themselves in a position to go there and then they can figure out where they want to go. That's right. The D one or bus mentality, if that's a kid's non-negotiable, good for them. That's great. Let them do that and they can go to any division one that they or have an opportunity to play at. And who am I to join? Yeah. And so I just careful not to do that and I read it. If that's your mentality and that's the direction you wanna go, then we're gonna go ahead and slide in and go in a different direction. Everybody's got their non-negotiables and those are important to each family. Yeah. I teach families that, this is what I do for a living and, but I teach families the money should be the last thing you worry about. 'cause at the end of the day, everybody's gonna give you a financial aid report. The D two might give you a $7,000 athletic scholarship, but your bottom line. Might be better at Virginia Wesley and the D three 'cause they're giving you more academic money and grant money and institutional money, even though nothing is athletic, you might be getting more money there. Correct. It's great advice for families to, that you're giving, and I know you don't wanna step into it and give you opinion on and make kids decide what's best for them, but at the end of the day. You're gonna be happier if you go to a place where you love the people, you love the culture, you love the academics. And if the money is right, great, right. Everything else has to be there first for me but everybody's price on happy factor is different. And That's right. Sometimes we've gotta be sensitive to that and. Certainly have families that are investing in that, that, that didn't think that they would and others that, that have chosen not to. And again, at the end of the day I, at the end of the day, I think God's gonna put people in our program that are supposed to be here anyway. He just wants to make me work a little extra harder some days for that. As a believer too, right? I think at the end of the day, that's what I try to tell a lot of kids. I'm early in the process, I'm late in the process. I'm like, you're not early or late. You're in your own lane running your own race. Everybody's gonna run a mile. You just might run it slower or faster than the other person. And that's fine as long as you finish the mile. But for those that claim to be believers, at the end of the day, you're gonna be where you're supposed to be anyway. All right. Let's put you on a field. You're recruiting, you're watching two teams play live. What are some of those things that get your internal bell ring and we'll go around the field for a, let's start with a catcher. What are some of the things you see a catcher do at 16, 17-year-old that just goes, oh God, I gotta see more of this kid. As soon as they come out on the, on, on the field, right? And whether it's the fist bump to the umpire or that, that confidence in that swag and how they're receiving, and it's not a show, but it's just easy and the throw down and how they're managing the game. So that confidence piece from a catcher is like, all right, let's start taking a peek at this kid a little bit. So it's not the 1.8 pop time and how strong their arm is. It's a, it's about presence first. Yeah. And I can tell you right now that, everybody's gonna scream and pop times are great, but who's recording? It could be Johnny Fat Fingers. When are they starting it? When are they finishing it? All that type of things. If they're throwing every base runner out that steals, then I don't really care what their pop time is, because, like somebody says with slappers. How fast do you want your kids from home to first? And my answer is always the same. Safe. I want 'em to be safe. If every time I go see her, she happens to be safe. I don't have a stopwatch and I'm different. Yeah, but pop times are great, but there's this caveat that everybody wants their kids to be a 1, 6, 7, a one, seven A one, whatever. But in a day I can throw a 1, 6, 7 up to the top of the, top of the can, and my kids are jumping up to catch it and we're still safe. I, honestly, I think a catcher can be a 2.0 pop time straight down. And if that catcher's a 2.0 and she's right on top of the bag every time she's gotta, throw more runners out than the one eight that's a little bit erratic. And those things are great, but I'm not looking at those numbers until I'm looking at something live and seeing how they respond. All right. Let's jump to the outfield and I'm gonna put some context with this one. Let's say you're gonna graduate your three and four hitters. You're losing a lot of power. Kids that hit those doubles of the wall, give you a couple home runs every season. Are you thinking about replacing that power or are you thinking about, boy, that kid can really play, I'm going at that kid can really play? I think it's a slippery slope when you start replacing people. And trying to get kids to fill shoes is ultimately what we want to do, is we want, we may lose we may lose an All American at third base, and I don't want to be like, Hey, I gotta replace my All American. And then I put all of that into that kid. You know that's coming in as a freshman to hit four 20 and hit eight home runs with 50 rbis. No. I would love if that happens, but if that kid can come in and hit 360 play good defense. Maybe shit's a couple home runs and hits 30. Okay, then we've lost some numbers. Now I expect my. Junior shortstop, who's a senior now to have a little bit better number. So we should recover some of those numbers from that position. Or, Hey, we had a kid playing this position and now we've got a kid coming in that's a little bit better. So we replaced the senior with a kid that's offensively. And so it's really more so trying to take the team as a whole and saying this is what we gotta do as a team. Here's what we got coming back. Here's what we've lost, and then this kid should be a little better. This kid should be a little better. This kid should be a little better. And then we fill the gaps in with everybody else versus. I'm gonna replace one kid with one kid. When Hannah Hall graduated, how are you gonna replace Hannah Hall? I'm like, hell no. Probably not gonna replace her. And so maybe we got deeper in the circle. So instead of having one big time arm, we had two or three arms and we worked through that and navigated and we just started playing better defense. That's right. So it's just trying to nit, nitpick that a little bit. I'm not gonna not recruit a kid that I really because I'm worried about replacing something else. I hate to use baseball as a, as an example here, but, and I, and this is hard for me to see out loud. 'cause as you can see, I'm a Cubs fan. What we're seeing the Milwaukee brewers do with their lineup and the pitchers that they've lost and the hitters that they've lost, it seems like every kid in that lineup knows how to see the ball and drive the ball where it's pitched. And they can all run. They can all run. I'm a Mets fan, so it's been a really hard life for me. But but yeah, I, one of the things and I didn't dig into the context of it, but they said everybody in their lineup was under five 10. Yeah. Or under six foot, I should say. Yeah. And that's an anomaly in Major League baseball. But they do all of the little things and they do them very well. Yeah. So I love that's your approach to recruiting. Is there something that gets you excited about outfield when you're watching outfielders? Is there something that you're just like, God I love that type of game. Outfield, outfields my jam. That's my jam. That's where I live. And I talk about it all the time. I need to go get 'em outfielder. That's the kid. And that's usually in center field that's just happening to run everything all the way every everything down, and tracking balls and taking away balls in the gap and doing those things. And I think it's undervalued, right? And those things and very seldom do you see a GoGet 'em outfielder 'cause nobody really zones in and focuses specifically on outfield. And yeah, I think you can find some corner kids that can do things and swing the bat and be sufficient out there. But a really go get 'em center fielder that covers a ton of ground is just really. It's elite, but it's also they don't, you don't, they don't make 'em like that anymore. No. As a Mets fan, I'll personally thank you for Pete Crow Armstrong. We really appreciate it. Yeah, that was that was a tough pill to swallow. I appreciate it. How I'm gonna love watching him play for the next 15 years out there, Ridley. All right. Let's go to the infield third base. I know everybody talks about short stops, but for me, for softball. Third base has to be a rockstar. What are you looking for when you're recruiting third base grit. Somebody's not afraid to get in their cookies, right? You like to see somebody that can get up in front of the bla in front of the bag and really take away the short game and do those types of things but also is athletic enough to move, behind the bag. And we like to play behind the bag quite often and then come in front to take away the short game. And so if we're able to take somebody that's agile enough as a shortstop and move them over to third base. But they're a little bit, a little bit arrogant in what they're doing and coming and taking things away. That's just powerful for us. Fearless component too. Oh, no doubt. Because that's a position I wouldn't wanna play. Yeah, me too. Yeah. I was a catcher all the way through school and, but I, when I got a chance to play third, it was just, it's a whole different world in terms of your confidence and your grit. No doubt. Let's talk about up the middle. What are you looking for up the middle? Honestly, and nobody's probably gonna say this out loud, I look at their glove, not their glove work. If a kid goes out there and the gloves' formed a little bit different and it's got a little swag to it and it's got that kind of baseball atmosphere that draw, I'm zoning in that draws my attention and I'm gonna watch that kid a little bit longer. Maybe I'm the only one. But it's just one of those weird things that you gravitate to and you're like, Hey man, usually bad players don't have great gloves. And I said usually not all the time, but usually. And so that, I'll see that and just kinda how they move and you see a kid that works really hard, just to, getting the pre, in between inning ground balls and how hard it is. And then you see those free flowing kids that it's just a game and it's quick and easy and it's almost like they're showing all Yeah. And you just watch that. And that's the thing that makes me wanna watch a little bit more. Yeah. It's the Captain America. Keep bringing it. I can do this all day. Yeah. The glove looks like it's received more ground balls than what a glove should have received. Yep. Yeah. I love it. All right. Talk about your first baseman. What do we, we get at every level. Doesn't matter if softball, baseball, doesn't matter if it's club all the way through pro. Seems like that's a power position. Is that a power position? Is the bat important for you over there? It certainly is, but I think it's super underrated defensively, especially in a game that's so fast. And a game that's so fast, I think we can get away with some things in baseball a little bit more. But in softball, those picks and backhand picks and those types of plays and covering the bunts are just, they're so quick and so it's just a little bit more important with the small game, the way that goes to be more efficient defensively over there at first base. But again, it's glove work for me, right? If they've got a, I've got a dead bunny ear over there that's swapping around in the wind. But I wanna see somebody that's popping off the bag, that's receiving, snapping through it, throwing the ball around and really has some energy over there. Is just really important, what we're looking at. We've talked about it already in the past podcast, but you've had some stud pitchers you talked about Hannah, again what do you have to see are there red flags to the picture that maybe you'll walk away from? Or are there certain things that you're like, God. That's a kid that can throw, that's a kid that's gonna develop into something special because it's seems like it's so hard to identify some of those things. Yeah. And I think that's why film's so hard because you don't really kinda get a grasp of it on film, but. I want a kid that commands the circle. A kid that commands the circle with confidence. And one of the things we talk about, Hannah Hurl, who's with us now, not Hannah Hall, who was with Hannah Hurl, that's with us now that makes her great. Is sometimes you go watch her and you're like, is this is, and people I've heard people say, is this kid that special? I don't understand. Everywhere Hannah Hurl is played, Hannah Hurl has won. Something about it. And I think about a young lady named Carla Hall that played for me. People were like, oh, she doesn't do a whole lot. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about, but she wins. When she gets the ball, she wins, her teams win. She's in championships. And so following kids that just seem to always win and always be in that moment is good. And for us it's swings and misses and weak contact. Watched a kid the other day, that from a velocity standpoint wasn't where I like to see velocity, but every time I see her pitch, she gets a ton of swings and misses and a lot of weak contact. And there's something to be said about that. That ball's doing something to confuse hitters or she's hiding it or spinning it. Is important. And yeah, we wanna light the radar gun up, but there's a couple kids this summer that were 61, 62, which is really exciting for us. But every time I saw them play, it was really hard contact. Yeah. Hard contact every time we play, which tells me the ball's not moving as much. And those are the things that we I identify a little bit with pitching and it's worked out for us to be successful. Hannah Hall I saw, speaking of Hannah Hall, who's gonna get in our Hall of Fame here in October. She I remember watching her as a sophomore. A friend of mine sent me out to see her and she was 54, 55. She was okay. But what I saw was very high legs very very high legs and very long levers. And I was like, this kid's got a shot and she was left handed, so that didn't hurt. So let's just follow up with her or follow it up with her as a junior. All of a sudden it was 58, 59 with a little bit of life, and it was weird. It was a weird 58, 59. There was a lot of swings and misses, a lot of weak contact. Nobody was really paying attention to her. And then that was like, Hey, we need to go get this kid and we need to go get this kid now. Yeah, and that was on a Saturday. She visited her on a Tuesday and committed and. The next six months we were just praying that nobody else would steal it from us. And then we did that for the next four years. We were praying that nobody stole it from us. I don't miss, that's one of the things I don't miss, waiting, the, waiting for that great player to tell you they, oh, I just gotta make sure they're here and in class on the first day. Yeah. Exactly. That's the difference with being a D three coach. You're it's not the commitment on February 15th, it's the first day of school on August, whatever it is, 26th. Are they in class? You know what I mean? Gimme a piece of advice for a kid that would love to play at Virginia Wesleyan. How do they get ahold of you? How do they reach out to you in a way that you want that says, Hey coach, I'm interested in you. Would you evaluate me? Certainly, everybody's gonna go to email, right? Certainly email. But we'll see. Just since you and I have been talking here, I've got 138 emails not that just came in there, but since you and I have been talking on this smaller 15 minute segment I've gotten 27 new emails in there and some of 'em, and it's not even tournament time, right? And so some of that gets lost in the shuffle. We see everything that comes through and we filter all that. But what's unique about is the kid that continues to send stuff, and so sending emails and communicating without. Being okay without getting a response. And I say that for my division one colleagues and some of my division two colleagues because there's certain times that they can't respond. That's right. That's right. And so us not responding isn't necessarily normally not seeing or not reading it. If I continue to see Brandon Elliot. Brandon Elliot. Brandon Elliot. Brandon Elliot, and I'm deleting these Brandon Elliot emails, but they keep coming in. They keep coming in and we're trying to file 'em. Eventually they're like, we've got to go see this kid. This kid's continuing to follow up on us, continuing to send and those are the genuine emails and. When we won the National Championship in 2017, somebody said, you need to make sure when they're on visits, you tell 'em that. Like they know. Everybody knows. They don't because it'd be interesting. I get emails like, congratulations on a season that you guys had. So it was a generic even, instead of, Hey, congrats you guys won a national championship. I'm super interested in that. Or, for us this year, man, what an incredible run. You guys, finished this runners up. That's a program and what, so doing some research in that email because. You're gonna have your email that you're sending out to the masses just like we do. But then you're gonna have that email that I'm sending just to Virginia Westley or just to, Brandon Elliot. And so somehow, if that school is important to you, making that email personable so we know that this is coming just to us, not to somebody else. I beat parents up a lot more than they deserve because I'm a tough love when it comes to parents, especially on the recruiting side. 'cause there's so much cl head in the cloud kind of talk about recruiting. What's your best piece of advice to parents that have a daughter that's going through this journey? Think to be transparent with them at the beginning of the journey of what you can do. Whether that is financially, whether that is distance wise, whether like, where are your thoughts on that? Because sometimes those conversations happen after a kid's fall in love with a place. And again, we talked earlier, there's some non-negotiables. There's some kids that are paying their own way. There's some parents that have a set dollar amount and this is what I can afford to help my kid. And being able to have that, that if it's not a concern, then Hey, you go where you want. But if there is a thing like, Hey, I, I've got $18,000 a year, mom and I have saved and that's the best that we could do. And we're help, we're happy to take out loans and, but you're gonna have to help from $18,000 plus, or whatever. So then that kid knows, alright, where am I at in the ballpark? And being able to walk through that. Just that transparency of what the expectations are from a parent. And, and it's hard because I, I'm figuring it out with my own kids and it's hard 'cause I'm not in that decision as the parent. But giving them your opinion when they ask for your opinion, because you're gonna go on these visits with them and you're gonna have your opinions, but sometimes your opinion doesn't match up with theirs. And I think when it comes down to that important of a decision, that there should be a relational piece where it's alright dad, I'm struggling between school A, B, and C. I would like to hear what your thoughts are. Can you help me walk through it? Versus feeding them that immediately. Because this has to be a selfish decision for them. This is the first decision in their life that's all about them. As parents, we've gotta be supportive in any way that we can to support them in that decision. And if it's a complete red flag for you as a parent, you're gonna know that and your knower. And I'm not saying to keep that away 'cause you don't want your kid going if you saw something crazy you don't want. But just trying to kind white glove it a little bit. Let them walk through the process. And I think the last thing is for parents not to get up in arms about a deadline. And what I mean by deadline, I'm not talking about schools that deadline you. I think if scholarship dollars are involved or if roster spots are at stake, each program can deadline and give deadlines because I understand the importance of that. But sometimes we have these arbitrary deadlines like September 1st, my 2020 sevens, gotta figure it out. That's the beginning. That's when division ones can reach out. And just because social media shows that these 15 kids committed on September 1st doesn't mean that's the same timeline for your child. That's right. Is they're dead. I honestly believe kids are gonna know when they know. That's right. And I, one of my best friends, his daughter called me last year on, on her way back from a visit, and it was between two schools. And she said, my dad told me I needed to call you and you help me through making this decision. And I said, all right you tell me about the schools. She talked all about school A, she talked all about school B. She talked glowingly about both of them and their programs and their coaches, but I could tell in her voice that she was leaning one way. Yeah. And all I told her was I just said, Hey listen, you have already made up your mind. You're just wanting somebody else to tell you what to do. I said, but you already know. She's which 1:00 AM I leaning to? I said, I'm not gonna say it. I said, could, because I said, where you're struggling is you are so in love with both programs and both coaches. You just don't wanna disappoint one or the other. Yeah. And I said, this is a big girl conversation and you just need to go ahead and call that coach and tell them that you're looking to go to the other school. And I said, because you've already made up your mind. She called me the next day and she said, I'm going to so and and I said, that's where I figured you were going. She's like, how'd you know? I said, I heard it in your voice. I said, you loved both of them. Yeah. You just wanted somebody else to give you the answer 'cause you're afraid to make the wrong decision. So that I think that's key into that is those open conversations forward. Yeah, I love it, coach. It's a true joy to get to know you and meet you and to have this conversation with you. Virginia Westland's really lucky to have you, and I'm sure they know that. But I'm so happy that we have an audience across the country now that now knows there's another great school out there that they can look at. And if they have a daughter that's playing softball, this would be a great opportunity for them to take a look and learn more about it. So thank you for doing this and we'll be cheering for you. I appreciate it. And reach out Virginia Wesleyan and Virginia Beach is a great place to be. There's no question. Thanks, coach. Thanks you, sir. That was my conversation with Coach Brandon Elliot, and what a powerful reminder about what really matters in recruiting. Coaches aren't just evaluating talent, they're asking which kid wants to be here more? Effort, intentionality and genuine interest can matter almost as much as skill. If you're recruit, that's a challenge to you. Show them every step of the way that you are fully invested, and if you're looking for tools to help you stay focused and organized on your recruiting journey. Remember, the Sports Recruit Journal series is out now for basketball, baseball, volleyball, and softball. Soccer is coming soon, I promise. They're designed as week by week guides for any student athlete who wants to own their process and stand out. They're also a perfect companion to my book, significant Recruiting, the Playbook for prospective college athletes. You can find them all today@amazon.com and@coachmattrogers.com. Until next time, stay focused, stay humble, and keep working to be the recruit who truly wants to be there.