Episode #122: Dr. Greg Lott

🎙️ Leading with Intention: Human Development, Culture, and Coaching Growth with Dr. Greg Lott (Otterbein University) 

In this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, Matt Rogers sits down with Dr. Greg Lott, Director of Athletics at Otterbein University, to explore what it means to lead with intention in collegiate athletics. Dr. Lott shares how a single message from his own college years shaped his approach to coaching, leadership, and student-athlete development—learn as much outside the classroom as inside it. 

The conversation dives into identity, emotional intelligence, and mental health in college athletics, and how coaches can create environments where young people grow as whole human beings. Dr. Lott also breaks down his practical framework for hiring coaches based on program needs—whether the moment calls for a recruiter, a tactician, or a culture-builder—and shares how Otterbein’s coaching pods foster collaboration, reflection, and continued professional growth. 

Learn more about Dr. Lott and his work at Otterbein University here:
 https://otterbeincardinals.com/staff-directory/dr-greg-lott/434
 

For more weekly coaching and leadership insight, and to subscribe to both the Significant Coaching & Significant Recruiting podcasts, visit:
 https://coachmattrogers.com/

Significant Recruiting Resources — Take the guesswork out of college recruiting with Significant Recruiting: The Playbook for Prospective College Athletes, sport-specific Recruit’s Journals, and the Significant Recruiting Launchpad. Practical tools to help families research schools, stay organized, and build a smarter recruiting strategy. Learn more at CoachMattRogers.com.

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

0:10

Welcome back to The Significant Coaching Podcast. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. Today's guest is someone who sits right at the intersection of athletics and education, Dr. Greg Lot, director of Athletics at Otterbein University. In our conversation, Dr. Lot takes us back to a single sentence from his freshman orientation. Learn as much outside of the classroom as inside it. That idea shaped his entire path as an athlete, a coach, a scholar, and now as an athletic director. We talk about helping athletes understand the place of sport in their lives, the reality of identity and balance, and the incredible range of experiences within division three itself from programs that are just trying to compete to those built to win at the highest level. Greg was officially announced as Otterbein Director of Athletics in July of 2023 after a successful tenure at Denison University, where he led the Institute for Development through Sport and served as Associate AD and a faculty member. He holds a doctorate degree from the Ohio State University with research focused on emotional intelligence and the mental health of student athletes. Before moving into administration, He coached at the NCAA division one and the division three level. mentoring, conference championships, a national champion and also he competed himself as a hall of fame, all American from Dickinson College, and later as a professional athlete with Team USA. He now serves nationally and internationally in coach development, including work with the ncaa, the True Athlete Project, and British Gymnastics. before we begin, don't forget to subscribe@coachmattrogers.com for weekly coaching and recruiting tips, and check out my new recruiting blog while you're there. And be sure to come back for part two on the significant recruiting podcast, dropping this Monday, November 11th, where Dr. Lot and I talk about what families and athletes really need to understand about the Division three recruiting landscape. Alright, let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Dr. Greg Lot. Dr. Lot. So great to see you. Thanks for being on the show. My pleasure. Excited. I want to dive in 'cause I love your track record. I love your background and your focus is on, on development of young people and really helping them find their path and you've done so much work, not only in your academics, but on the athletic side with helping them really understand who they are and their mental balance. Where did that start for you, where you knew you wanted to be a teacher and an educator? It's funny I actually can remember the moment where this concept really started to seep into my conscious. I was actually a freshman in college and I was at our new student orientation our then dean of students, Joyce Bylander. She came up to the podium and she said a whole bunch of things. And honestly, I wasn't paying all that. Much attention. I was scoping out my new social surroundings and trying to figure out what I was gonna do that night. But at some point in her remarks, she said this statement that I genuinely hope that you learn as much outside of the classroom as you do inside the classroom. And I don't know why but that moment it hit me like a ton of bricks because I had always, thought that I had so much of my development and my education through my co-curriculars, namely sport but other things as well. And no one had ever told me that it was supposed to be part of my education before. And so when she said that, it just, like something clicked and it really helped me be very intentional with my sport experience at the collegiate level and trying to use it to become the person that I wanted to become and try to integrate the stuff that's happening in the classroom with other types of things. And then I guess because I was paying such close attention to it, I started to notice that the learning and growth and development that I was receiving through sport wasn't. Happening uniformly with all of my peers. I think probably when I started becoming like a team captain, maybe my junior, senior year I started noticing some of my peers were navigating the experience, not really changing all that much. And it really started to get to me and I wanted to figure this out and, then later after I, I spent some time running professionally and got involved in coaching and I started experiencing the same things or some of my athletes incredible growth. Development, maturation, others not so much. If only they could do this, then all these other things would happen. And every coach I talked to, same kinds of conversations, they bang their head against the wall. Man, if I could just get this one person to do this thing, they would really excel in the classroom. They'd really excel athletically. And really it got to the point to where I decided to put coaching aside and go back and try to study that phenomenon within my PhD. And so it's really been something that started as a collegiate athlete and has spawned into something that's really taken over my professional life. Isn't it amazing if you talk to anybody our age and I think we're around the same age, but I think. When I've been telling stories to my, my, my kids that, my, my son and daughter, and I've been telling stories to the kids I work with, and I'm having these memories that are popping up and I haven't thought about in 25, 30 years. And the impact those things had on me and who I am today. And I'm, I haven't thought about it, but it equates so, so easily to the development of me as a person. With the work you've done on your doctorate, have you figured out some paths that we can get kids on, especially when they're athletes? Or does it bother you when that's their life? That's their identity. Is just their runner, just they're a football player, a basketball player. Do you encourage them to get more engaged with the community or is that enough just being on a campus and being a student athlete? I really don't, there's a lot of layers to that question. Yeah, I guess so. First let me jump in and say at Otterbein in this particular context, I really don't like for our student athletes and the particular teams to feel siloed. I really like for them to be visible, be part of campus, really be trying to, engage all the different types of things that they can while they have this opportunity as a student. But I will say that's, maybe what I personally believe in and value what I think is right for most of the students here at Otterbein. But maybe that's not the case in every context. I genuinely believe that it's important for young athletes and honestly, they can really start doing this, I don't know, middle school, junior high into high school, somewhere around that age. They can start exploring their values. And as they grow, they can really start thinking about the nuances of those and how they wanna prioritize in relationship to those values. And I don't ever wanna be, the kind of administrator that tells people what they need to value and then tells people what their experience needs to be like. I think it's really important that people come to grips with the place of sport in their lives. And that doesn't have to be the same for everyone. And so I really try, because I work with so many different athletes, outside of Otterbine too, with, my mentorship and the True athlete project and my work in the community with the Grand Belt Rec District and things like that. And I, when I have these conversations, I try to get people to think about what they value, what place sport is in their life, what they want that to look like, and then they have to realize that there are ramifications of those decisions. And I don't mean positive or negative ramifications, I just mean if they decide that they want sport to be X, it's going to impact them in these ways, and they need to be okay with that's part of that decision process. So while I don't think, going back to this identity question that you asked I don't think that it is ideal by any means for one's identity to get very wrapped up in their sport. I'm fully cognizant that if someone has aspirations of playing at the highest levels, it really needs to be a substantial part of their identity. And there needs to be lots of other supporting things. But I, I can't be completely idealistic and say, Hey, if you're gonna be an NBA draft pick, basketball can be one of the many things that you do. It doesn't quite work that way, and so I think that we just need to be able to be honest and have those kinds of conversations. Yeah. I agree. And I didn't phrase the question really well, but you handled it much better than the question was you were a professional runner. Let's talk a little bit about that. Where was your mindset in that transition from college to being a professional runner? Because I don't know if there's a lot of people out there that understand. You know what a professional football player is and a professional basketball player. What does a professional runner look like? What's that day to day? Yeah. And how did you make that transition? To be honest, it was a tough transition for me to move from being a division three collegiate athlete. Where it was, all about the team essentially. To now all of a sudden, if I was at a meet, I could walk off the track and it wouldn't impact anybody but myself. My agent would be pissed at me. But I, like it wasn't gonna impact team standings or something like that. I, and I was amazed at how much more selfish I needed to become to start to excel in that space. And I didn't like it. It was one of those kinds of things that I wanted to see if I could do it. I wanted to have that experience. But I only did it for two years. I got to the point, I came up short for for the US Olympic team in 2008, and, I had to then make the decision, do I, give it another four years or not, and, I, I just didn't really want. My existence to be that selfish, that focus, that wrapped up in that one particular thing. And so then I made the decision to, to move on. But that was me. Like I said I really, I enjoyed the experience. I valued it so much and what it did for me. But it's it just it wasn't what I went on long term. Yeah. I, I. I think we, at the end of the day, I think we're all healthier when we're a bit of a Renaissance man or woman. We're, yeah, we're, we can have, we kinda have the best of both worlds. We can have our professional life, we can have our personal life, we can have something in between. And I think the more we're able to get out of our own way and get out of our own comfort zone. The, just like your professional experience, the more you probably grew and you figured out who you are and you figured out it's okay to be selfish sometimes. Yeah, I bet. Matt, I will tell you right. Some of my teammates, they were incredibly happy with track and field being their life for as long as it could be, right? So and so for some of them. I don't know that they would've been as happy, like backing off their sport. They wanted to put everything into that and they wanted their existence to be that professional athlete. Yeah. And that's okay too, right? That's, yeah, it's, that's what I'm talking about. When you have to explore those values and what you explore, what you want your life to look like in this the place that sport plays in it. Let's talk a little bit about D three. 'cause there's a lot going on, and I know your president's starting to play a big role in the D three president's Council. Yeah, and I think we've been working towards this. What makes the D three landscape so unique in your eyes? And you can't, I think you can be that kid that says, I'm all in with my sport. I know I'm a D three athlete. I know I'm not on, I might not be on athletic scholarship, but I'm gonna ride this as far as I can. If I can play overseas. If I can get an agent and get a contract somewhere, I wanna do it. What does that landscape look like today and where do you see it going to be a D three athlete? Gosh the where I see it going, that, that could be a whole podcast in I agree. Yeah. Itself. What's really unique about division three is just how much difference that you find within the division. And that's what I think so many people outside of college sport just they're not aware of. There really are some division three experiences. That maybe the programs, the coaches, the student athletes aren't all that dedicated. When you look at that bottom quadrant of the division as hard as that is for you to say, 'cause you're so respectful, there's a huge amount of truth to that. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so I. I think that for the most part, if you are a moderately successful high school athlete, you could def, you could find a place to continue competing at the division three level somewhere. But on the other side of the coin, the top quadrant of division three. Man, it's tough's. We had, where I'm from the player of the year for boys basketball in his conference. So one of the top players in a handful of schools was having trouble landing a spot at the division three level when he was pursuing a basketball program. Otter or something along those lines. You have to be, a top level player to be able to be recruited and find a spot on the better programs in division three. And so you just have this this varied mix of resources whether that's like operational funds coaching staffs, there are in, there are institutions that may not have. Full-time coaches in some sports. And then there are some that have three or four full-time coaches for a particular sport. And all of that is within division three. There's roughly 450 schools just under, within division three, which is more than division one and two combined. Yeah. And so there's just such incredible variation and like understanding that landscape is I mean you can't blame people that aren't involved in it to not know but it's. That's really, I think, the most unique thing about division three. And there's certain principles that govern all of division three. But trying to get everyone in complete alignment sometimes can be challenging. And the experience of a Division three athlete could be vastly different from one institution to another. In my experience, I'm the perfect example of that. 'cause when I was in AD for the first time at Maryville in 2002 or 2003, I was the only full-time person on the entire athletic department. Wow. My secretary was part-time, my head coaches were part-time. Yeah. We didn't, I don't if when I took the job. And I changed all this 'cause I barked and yelled as till No, everyone but I don't think I had a head coach making more than 12,000 a year. And I was head men's basketball coach as, as well as ad trying to do this. So you, to your point, I think if you're a kid, if you're a family and you've got a teenager that wants to play in college, part of this conversation. Is thinking about, do you want to be a small fish in a big pond? Do you want to be a big fish in a small pond? Yeah. Do you wanna walk into some place and go, I'll create that legacy? Or do I need to walk into a place that's already got a legacy created? And then there's 90 different versions of that in between, right? Yep. So I love your take on that because it's so important for families to embrace. What college really is. And there's a different color, there's a different range for everybody that wants to go into. So don't think D three is D three, right? Correct. Correct. And it's funny, I, so I've got a son that he's in eighth grade now and we brought his last year, his seventh grade basketball team to an Otterbine game. Nice. And it was, it's funny because. 12, 13-year-old kids have a certain perception of what college basketball should be like, of what division one's of what division three is and so when the team got in the gym. All right guys, I just want you to go underneath the basket where our team's getting ready to warm up. And I just want you to walk. I want you to see what the bodies are like. I want you to see what the athleticism is like. Just let me know what you think. And so they're over there and they're watching our guys that are like. 6, 8, 6, 7 guys that are jumping out of the gym, coming through doing all different kinds of crazy dunks and just knocking down one three after another. And they're looking over at me like, oh my gosh this is not what we expected. And so to be able to say yeah like this is a good division three basketball program, right? And so if you all are thinking about playing in high school, thinking about playing in college, this is a good way for you to start learning what the landscape is like and Yeah, if you wanna be a college basketball player, you gotta work your tail off. It's not just oh, yeah. It's gonna happen. Yeah. It. But it what's cool about that is, is that doesn't probably happen the size and the elitism of your program, of your athletic program. It probably doesn't happen the way it does if you don't have certain things in place, if you don't have certain budget in place, if you don't have certain staff. You look at the Otterbine athletic staff directory online. It looks like a division two program. Yes. You are well funded, you're president, makes sure you're taken care of, speaks to the board on how important athletics is to driving the entire university. So full-time assistant coaches having athletic trainers that can travel with your teams. How much effect does that have on your head coaches knowing that you're supporting them? Yeah. And I try to be honest though, with all of my head coaches, yeah. You can't just say oh, I expect you to win a national championship. I expect you to win a conference championship. You've you hit the nail on the head where resources do impact what your ceiling can be. And I'll be perfectly honest, some of my sports are better situated than others in the overall landscape. When you think about. Location the type of sport within our conference facility, coaching staff, things like that. And it's really important as an athletic director to, to be able to have those transparent conversations with your coaches about what you expect from them holistically. But, winning, competition, recruiting, all that's a part of that. And so yeah, I'm doing my best to try to help each coach. Keep moving that needle in the right direction and keep being able to pursue the top end of their sport. But you also have to be a realist and we're funded nicely and we have good resources, but. There are also those that are funded better, with better resources. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. It's you look at the hopes and the Illinois Wesleyans of the world and the Washington universities and, some of those schools have endowments that are in the billions with a b. Yep. So if you're a school that has an endowment that's a hundred million, that's fantastic that you know you're doing really well. If you have a hundred million dollars endowment, but you're competing against schools that have 10 times the money. Yep. So it's, we talked about the differences in division threes within that division. It's the same thing within your department. There's certain things that you can give to certain sports that Yeah, you don't have the ability to give to other coaches in other sports, right? And that's just the reality of athletics. Talk a little bit about, 'cause I'm building an athletic department right now for a college that's starting athletics, so I Oh, very cool. I'm pick, I'm gonna pick your brain on this and I'm actually gonna be hiring a cross country coach at a couple of soccer coaches in the next month. Okay. So this is a great conversation for us to be having when you're thinking about hiring a new coach. Where does it begin with you? What are some of those things that you're like, I've got to have this, I wanna make sure I don't have this. Are there anything like that immediately comes to mind? Yeah, it's, I think a different kind of a conversation when you're starting from scratch. Yeah. Than when you're not for sure. Because I may make a completely different hire depending on where that particular program is situated. I'm talking about the culture of that program, the competitiveness of that program, the robustness of the roster in that program and Right. So I always try to ask myself, I, I try to step back and look without bias, what are we working with right now? Do I need, because realistically I can get a coach that's really good in an area. I can't get a coach very often. That comes to me, that's exceptional in every area. If they were exceptional in every area, they would be able to demand a salary that is, I'm priced out of that market. So I've gotta step back and ask myself do I need someone that is an exceptional recruiter that, can drive relationships in high schools, that can talk to families that, that knows the best way to connect. With all the perspective student athletes and can cultivate their social media in a certain way, that's really attractive. So they've got this kind of like marketing PR type feel to 'em. Do I need someone that is a great tactician, someone that, has a lot of pieces, but they need to be able to put those pieces together in unique ways. Essentially that can OutCo the competitors between the lines. Do I need someone that is a cultural builder that, the culture may not be in a great space and they've gotta have. That kind of background that can really try to establish the values and can establish the behaviors that are associated with those values and are, is great on the accountability side of things, right? So I always try to say okay, what is the primary skillset that I need when I'm making this higher? And then I start there. And kind of work backwards and, look at the strengths and weaknesses of different candidates. And I always try to target as well. If I've got a head coach opening I'll start to get into my network. Or even I just try to keep a good handle on the landscape and I may just straight up hold, call someone say Hey, I've heard these things about you. Like these attributes that seem to be really strong with you are exactly what I'm looking for in this role. Can we have a conversation? So that's how I go about it. I think if I'm in your shoes and I'm starting something from scratch it's gonna be probably number one factor of can I get people in the door? Can I make this thing exciting? Am I more, I don't know, am I more outspoken, outgoing? Am I a good connector? Can I just get some excitement? Going here because I've always found that you need some kind of like a critical mass on a team to start exciting better players. It's tough to go out and get that. Stud player right off the bat. They need to be able to come for a visit and say, oh, that's a fun group. I may be the best player in that group, but I at least I wanna hang out, I wanna roll my sleeves and get to work with this group. I wanna go be a part of it. So if you're starting from scratch, you need to have someone that can build that initial group from which to build. Y You're right on you it's great 'cause you're confirming the way I was thinking. 'cause as an athletic director I always put more weight into college experience. Anything else than, but for these roles I'm hiring now I'm really diving in. Okay. Who are the top club coaches in that area? Yeah. Who's got their hands into a couple hundred kids runner. Exactly. Soccer players that maybe will wanna come with them. 'cause there's already a reputation there, where we can build from there. So I'm thinking about that differently than I ever have before as a Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So I love that. That's great. That really helps me. And I think it gives families and high school coaches some in some perspective too. And I love the fact that you're pipelining and you're sourcing and you're not just vetting applications. Because I think that's where athletic programs stop growing. When our, the hiring people aren't going out and going, man, I've been hearing great things about this person. I'm gonna give them a call. I'm gonna see what their thoughts on our program. So I love that. Give us some things that you're doing with your coaches to help them grow professionally. Sure. This is something that's crucial. We ask so much out of our coaches. But most coaches aren't really taught how to facilitate deep engagement with an experience in a way that has particular outcomes. At least they're not taught in a formal way. They figure it out. Maybe they see other coaches do it. And so I think it's really important. To help coaches learn really how to get their athletes to be intentional with thinking about their sport as a me, as a mechanism for growth and development. How to teach them to think abstractly about how to do things differently, about how things might translate into other concepts, to teach them how to experi. Kind of those thought exercises to create mental models of, okay, I'm gonna try it out in this way. I'm gonna I'm gonna try these breathing techniques to help calm my heart rate before I shoot foul shots. And then I'm getting ready to go take a test or go have an interview. Maybe I can try the same things there and then teach them how to reflect upon those, that didn't work so well. Maybe it ain't to go about it in this way. And so I think it's important to really arm and equip. Our coaches with that. And then likewise, because we ask so much out of them, it's really important that we give them support. We give them access to one another. We try to cultivate ways that they can interact with one another, learn from one another because, a lot of them are that they just have such expertise and they're so great in some areas and they're so busy, there's not a lot of natural opportunities for them to engage one another and share that and help. Specifically at Otterbein. We've put together head coaching pods where we match a group up and, they have the autonomy to decide we wanna meet over lunch, or we wanna meet over coffee, or things like that. And I'm not very prescriptive. Every now and then I'll throw something at 'em and say, Hey here's a thing. Like I really want coaching pods to talk about the ideal on-campus recruiting visit. And I want us to try to create some commonalities with how we do that here. But more often than not, use the space in the way that you want it. That you need it. You can put someone in the hot seat like, Ooh, this coach does this one thing really well, and we wanna just pick her brain and, learn everything we can about it. Or someone may be struggling with. Interaction with a player or a parent or whatever it is, and, and so they have the opportunity to say, Hey guys I need this time today, I'm gonna, I'm gonna talk to you about an issue that I'm going through and just, any advice, any guidance that you all have. So they can do that. We have a resource bank where people can throw in podcasts, books, images, whatever, something that they've found meaningful, impactful, inspirational. And so if they want to grab onto that. Know they can. And oftentimes it's about things that don't even seem like they're sport specific, but can really create some great conversations about work-life balance, about prioritization, about, things like that to just help them flourish as human beings in this coaching environment. So the head coaching pods are big. Love that. We also do like a consistent curriculum for our younger coaches our GA's and things like that to, to really just, help them learn in areas that they just haven't had a lot of exposure to yet. And it's of course, open to any coaches but mandated for the newer, yeah. Coaches. It's awesome because if you're not thinking about your people that you have below your head coaches, if you're not helping grow them, you're really hurting your long-term pipeline to replace head coaches. Oh, heck yeah. Yeah. Oftentimes that's your easiest hire is that assistant coach that's been there for five to 10 years and already knows the kids already knows the system already is rolling down that road you wanna stay on. Yeah. For sure. And you know what, like on. On the other hand too I want everyone that works in my department to know that me personally and Otterbein structurally, genuinely wants them to be able to pursue whatever their aspirations are in their field. And so we wanna help with that growth and development. And if it's to be the best coach that can be at Otterbein, that's phenomenal. But if it's to open up doors to a different level, whatever it is that's fine too. In fact, I just gave a professional development session for my GA's on interviewing getting your foot in the door like we're trying to coach. Coach. That's awesome. I had some of my full-time coaches that wanted to come into the room and I started off with I hope you all know I will not be offended if you come to me and say, oh, this is the phenomenal opportunity, whatever. So great down the road. That is so great. 'cause if we get the reputation of really trying to help our people develop and pursue it is, it's important to them. And that's out there. More people wanna come work here, they wanna come coach here and it does, it grows the tree, the pipeline, whatever you wanna call it. Coach, you've been so great with your time and I know how busy you are. Let's end with some advice to younger coaches out there that wanna coach at the college level and wanna make that jump. Sure. It depends on where they're coming from, right? It's probably different kind of advice if you are, just finishing your career as a collegiate athlete or professional athlete and you wanna transition into coaching or if you're. Coming from the high school ranks or something along those lines at the club level, and you wanna get into college coaching you've I'd say you've got to figure out how you want to brand yourself. I know that sounds I don't know, maybe not authentic, but, you need to decide are you the person that wants to be known as an educator? Are you the person that wants to be known as a recruiter? Are you the person that wants to be known as whatever it is, and keep developing holistically the best you can. As our earlier conversation, explored, I try to look for something specific based on what I need. And it's really good if you can come into an interview and say, I do a phenomenal job at helping, student athletes excel in the classroom, and here's how I recruit the type of people that do that. And here's the structures that I put in place and that's the thing I care most about, or something different, right? So I guess like figure out, your brand your niche. Do your best to start connecting with as many people as possible. Help them get to know you. There's, coaching conventions. You'd be surprised. Here's like an untapped thing. How many college coaches are very willing to let new coaches just come observe practices? And so that's a huge opportunity if you can identify, three, four or five programs that are in your area that are doing well, and reach out to the head coach and say, Hey. This is really cool. You've had this success, or I've heard you've been doing these things in your programs. I'd really like to learn from you. Would you mind if I came and watched a practice and picked your brain a little bit before or afterwards? 97 times out of a hundred, they're gonna say yes. And if you get a no, you just, move on. But that starts to open up a lot of doors. It starts to help with your own. Knowledge base just, meeting people and they're gonna introduce you to people. And also if you get into an interview and you can talk about I observe this coach, and they do this thing well, but here's how I put my spin on it. Now all of a sudden, if you're an ad, you're like, Ooh, okay. That person's hustling, they're getting after it. They're trying to learn, they're reflecting. That's the kind of person I wanna bring into my program. I'd really encourage young coaches trying to get their foot in the door to to do that. I told you this was the last question, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask a follow up to this one. What does the cover letter do for you when you read it that says, all right, the resume's important. It's huge. And this is actually one of the things that we just spent a lot of time talking about in that professional development session that I just mentioned. You would be amazed at how many cover letters I get that I can tell they just changed the name, like whatever, like maybe it was to Illinois Wesley and announced it says Otterbein and sent it off. Matt, I, I. I don't know. At least 65, 70% of the cover letters I get are like that. Oh no. For jobs at a minimum. Oh, that hurts my soul to hear that. But because you're not trying, you're not caring about where you're going. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, I'm saying probably two thirds of apps that come in that's the case. Probably 99 times out of a hundred. I push those aside and don't engage them unless I know that's a person that I wanna engage with. But even then, like all of a sudden they've got a strike against them. As I start to to review that. I would say that like for cover letter. Just put in your homework and think about what is it that institution is trying to do, that athletic department is trying to do, and that program does uniquely, and how does that connect to you as an individual based on what you care about and what you bring to the table? You need to show that you are a good fit for this role, that you want to be at this institution. You want to learn from this coach. You want to be in this program. That's the kind of thing that makes me say, okay, all right I should take this person seriously. So that's that kind of like that personalization, that care, that homework has gotta be number one. Then number two, I need to see how their marketing and branding themselves, what is it that they want to be the thing that sets them apart? And there needs to be a couple sentences that jump off that paper and say okay. That's the thing that makes this individual special. And if I don't see that that gives me pause. What kind of self-awareness do they have? Are they really a good fit or are they not? I have to start then really doing some digging versus if they at least can initiate that conversation about what they're gonna bring to the table uniquely. And then you also touched on that notion of. I really do appreciate this one. In a cover letter isn't like a non-negotiable, but I do appreciate seeing something that shows they don't think they know everything. They have confidence and belief, but they're still trying to hone their craft and get better as a human, as a coach and right. That's, to me, something that's really important, especially because of the culture that we're really, trying to build here at Otterbein. I love your points on research, and I think it's so important the other side of that, 'cause there's been so many times over the last 30 years that I've applied for a job and in doing my research I've said, no, I'm gonna stop applying for this. It's not, yeah, it doesn't good for you. I'm gonna fail here, or they're gonna make me miserable. Yeah. Their value system doesn't match with mine. Yep. It goes back to what we were talking about, all the levels of division three. Every school has a different value system. Every school has a different purpose, and I try to tell kids this. I go, okay. Maybe you're Christian, but do you want to go to Bible study every Wednesday and have a dress code and you can never have a boy or a girl in your dormitory after eight o'clock? You might be Christian, you might like going to church and your faith might be important to you, but are you willing to sacrifice some of those things that you wanted out of a college? Or do you appreciate some of those things or do you appreciate that? And that's what you want, right? So I love that, and I think that's such great advice. I don't think we can talk to young people, not just young coaches. I don't think we can talk to young people enough about that journey they're on, about figuring out who you are. Whether it's a partner or a job, or a career or a culture or a geographic location, you gotta think about those things because there might be the perfect boss and the perfect title, but everything else around it might be terrible for you. Yep. So it's such great advice, Dr. Lot. You are so good at what you do. Thank you for continuing to bring your heart and your soul to your job. Thank you for sharing it with not only your people, but the community and my audience. And you've got a big fan in me and I'll be cheering for Otterbein and so long as you thank you. As long as you and Dr. Erford are there. I'm an Otter buying fan. I appreciate it, Matt. I appreciate the kind words. Thank you. We've had such a memorable season two of the significant coaching podcast, but I keep having conversations that end with me having more hope for the future of college athletics than when we started. And today's conversation with Dr. Greg Lott from Otterbein University was no different. I am so impressed with his focus on human development and the mental health of his student athletes. His commitment to building championship level programs at Otterbein is clear, but what stands out even more is how he centers everything on the growth of people, helping coaches stay healthy, and ensuring student athletes leave the university with self-worth confidence and maturity as they step into the real world. If this conversation resonated, make sure you're subscribed@coachmattrogers.com so you don't miss new episodes and you get the weekly blog of significance. And remember, part two of this conversation drops Monday, November 11th on the Significant Recruiting podcast where we dig into the division three recruiting landscape and what families really need to understand about that transition from high school to college. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance.