Episode #153: Dawson Dickson on Recruiting

🎙️  The JUCO Reset: How Junior College Helps You Rebuild and Move Forward 

Sometimes the recruiting journey doesn’t go the way you planned.

The good news? Junior college can be the reset that changes everything.

In Part 2 of my conversation with Dawson Dickson, Head Men’s Basketball Coach at Great Bay Community College (NH), we talk about how the JUCO pathway gives student-athletes the opportunity to grow, develop, and reposition themselves for the right four-year opportunity.

In this episode, we discuss:
 🎯 Who the junior college path is right for
 📹 What coaches look for when evaluating JUCO recruits
 📈 How athletes can improve their value at the next level
 🚀 Why JUCO is a chance to rebuild confidence, maturity, and momentum

For many athletes, junior college isn’t a backup plan—it’s a reset and a second opportunity to move their career forward.

If you’re a recruit, parent, or coach trying to find the best path after setbacks, missed opportunities, or a late start, this conversation will give you a new perspective.

🎧 Listen now: CoachMattRogers.com/podcast
▶️ Watch on YouTube: www.youtube.com/@CoachMattRogers

Subscribe on YouTube, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify, and share this episode with a family navigating the recruiting journey.

Transcript

0:09

on the latest edition of The Significant Coaching Podcast, the recruiting focus presentation of the coach, Matt Rogers YouTube channel. Also available audio only everywhere you get your favorite podcast. I'm your host Matt Rogers. Today's conversation focuses on one of the most misunderstood pathways in college athletics, the junior college route. Too often families see JUCO as a backup plan. The truth is, for many student athletes, it's an opportunity to grow, develop, and position themselves for the right four year fit. That's why I'm bringing back Coach Dawson Dixon Head, men's basketball coach at Great Bay Community College in New Hampshire today. Okay. Every year Dawson works with athletes who use the junior college experience to improve academically, physically, and mentally, and create new opportunities for themselves at the next level. In this conversation, we talk about who the JUCO path is really for and what college coaches are looking for at that level, and how student athletes can use the junior college experience to build real momentum in their recruiting journey. And before we get started, a quick note for athletic directors, high school leaders and club organizations. I'm currently booking my spring speaking calendar if you'd like me to come speak to your families and community about how to navigate the college recruiting process and help student athletes take ownership of their journey, you can schedule a quick 30 minute speaking inquiry with me@coachmattrogers.com. All right, let's get into part two of my conversation with Dawson Dixon. Coach Dixon, if anybody listen to the last episode, they know I have a little bit of crush on you'cause I, I love the way you coach. I love the way you think and you remind me so much of myself when I was your age i'm excited to talk recruiting with you.'Cause I think junior college recruiting. Maybe it's the toughest job in the country, but it's also maybe the most rewarding job in the country because what you get to do and get to do it so fast and your kids aren't just going to get a teaching job or going to med school, you get to go send'em somewhere. They get to keep playing and you get to see that development somewhere else. What's the biggest misconception about junior college basketball recruiting for you? It, it's a, it's a step down for a lot of kids. That's, that's the big piece. A lot of kids, like, they wanna go D one, D two, D three, and all of a sudden the, the junior college team gets involved in their recruitment process and it's like, ah, and, and all of a sudden you go to watch a junior college game and you're like, holy cow. There's a ton of talent out there. You know, so it's, it's, I think that's the biggest, there's a what's the word I'm looking for? They, they, it is just that, that. The recruiting is just looked at, looked at in a different way than, than the NCA level. It's a false impression. Yep. Very much so. Big, big misconception. There. Junior college is so great. I, I compare it to like, if, if you wanna be a plumber. Okay, you can go to a trade school and you can learn all about the parts and everything else. But in that two years at a trade school, if you were working with a plumber that's been doing it for 30 years and on the job right, you'd be 400 years ahead of where that trade school's gonna get you. Absolutely.'cause this guy knows what's going on and I, I kind of feel that's junior college basketball. You get to grow up, you get to make those mistakes live. You're not sitting on the bench, you're not waiting for that junior and senior to graduate. You're thrown into the fire and you better learn fast or, or you're not gonna get anything you want. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Who is the ideal junior college recruit? Paint that picture for what you see as that kid that really fits this level. I know, you know, I was a D three coach for a long time, so I really know what that D three kid looks like, but I'm not sure I know what the junior college kid looks like. Yeah, maybe, maybe a kid who, who, who's rawly and or like is, is maybe engaging in basketball now that he, he, he knows he can play at the next level, but he might not know what that looks like. A kid. It. That's the, the beauty of junior college level is we jucos for, for anybody you know, academically. If, if you're struggling academically, you're struggling body-wise, you need to get bigger, stronger, or you need to lose some weight and get in better shape skill-wise, your skill needs to develop. I think junior college is for anybody, and I think that's the, the great part about it. Some kids just need somebody push them and put them in the right position to succeed, you know? Go back. Go back to like your first year there, your first year two coaching juco, and you're maybe two weeks into practice. Is there a memory of a kid? You're like, this kid shouldn't be here. This kid's so much better than this level, but they didn't even know it. Yeah, absolutely. They're, they're picking things up so fast and they're driven and their heart, you know, they got the heart, they go to a D three and they just, they kick the senior's butt'cause they already know how to work, you know, and aren't gonna, don't, there's no quit in'em. They're, it's all dog. Do you have a memory like that? Yeah. So my, my first year at it was a, I coached a school called Vermilion Community College out in Minnesota. And I, I had this kid, his name's VOT Douglas he was a top five leading scorer in, in all of NJCA averaged like 27 points a game. And so he just comes out and practice one day and he's just, it's not missing. It's just, it's, he's just not missing. And, and all of my players, I hope they listen. It's because this was just frequently, it was every day. This isn't just the, the first two weeks of practice, it was every day in practice. And he just, he just doesn't miss, he's a jump shooter. And he's very, very skilled. And I just remember looking at where, at my assistants and other players, and I'm just like, why is he here? Why, why is Kuvan here? You, you know? And that's just, that's just the beauty of, of junior college athletics and a lot of under, under recruited. Talented kids. Now tell, tell me his story. Was he, was he the kid that shot 500 shots a day? Absolutely. Was. Okay. Absolutely was. He, he's at a he took a year off of school last year. And then he ended up back out in the school at North Dakota called Lake Region State. At Division one Junior College. Yeah. Vermilion was a division three junior college. He had a very, very successful year for us. He took a year off from school you know, just some, some other stuff going on. And he, he, he ended up getting himself recruited to a division one junior college. Okay. You know, so just, it's just, I'm, I'm very happy for him and his, his growth as a, as a human and, and a player. And, and like you're saying, it's just, it's, it's, it's, it's incredible to juco with what he can do for people. When you, when you talk about. Love of the game that gets you to the floor every day, gets you on that court at 6:00 AM shooting those shots and doing the extra sprints and the pushups in the weight room, or is it, I wanna win and I need that routine. What, what do you, what do you think that weighs at down that scale? I think there's a mixture of both.'cause I think, I think fear of failure, I, that's what I run on. You know, I wake up in the morning and I'm like, like I can't let my. Players down. I can't let my assistant coaches down, my family down, the people I care about you. You know what I mean? So that's why I work as hard as I do. And then it gets into alright. Now that you're here and you're doing your work, what are you doing with your work? Right? Are you just in the gym, are you just, are you just shooting shots or are you consistently trying to make every single rep, every single shot every whatever you're doing, or you're trying to do it the best you can possibly do it? Yeah. I, I was the kid. I would come home at eight o'clock when the lights went off and I'd just be covered in asphalt, dirt. I, because, you know, I'd go throw a basketball at about every, every two or three months'cause I would pound it so much. I just, I loved to play. Yeah. I just, whoever would play one-on-one, if there was three more guys, we'd play two on two. If they, if they wanted to go 2 0 2 0 1 versus me. Great. You know, I, I just love to play. Has that been lost in our country? Is I think a little bit. Are there kids that just, I, I think it's like instant gratification. Everybody wants it like now, you know? And I think that's why I think that's why the transfer portal is what it is. You know, kids want it now and you need to learn. You need, you need adversity. You need failure. Yeah, I mean, I'm in my fifties now and I'll do, I'll do a camp with elementary kids, you know, 8, 10, 9 year, nine year olds, seven year olds. And I, I'm back to being 18 again. Because I, I'm dribbling between my legs and behind the back and they're chasing me and I got eight kids chasing me and I just, you know, used to be, I used to be able to do that for three or four hours. Now I do that for 20 minutes and I need oxygen and I need a, an emergency stint. But that, that's what, what hurts my heart. I don't see kids playing anymore. Yeah. Don't. I don't, I don't, I don't, you know, we had to pick the phone off the wall and call somebody. We had to memorize their number. Now, you know, I don't see'em calling the cell and say, Hey, I'll meet you at the gym at two o'clock. I'll meet you down the courts at two o'clock. Right. Can we get that back or does that ship sail? I, I, I think you can. I think, and I'm not, I'm not talking bad about a a u basketball, but I think a a u plays a part in it too. Kids just want play like, like games. Yeah. You know, and, and like, like we're saying, making 500 shots and, and playing at the y and, and playing at outside, at the parks and stuff, they kind of want to just play AAU games. And I think that that takes away a little bit of the love for the game, like you're saying. Yeah, because I didn't have au right. I've drive, my parents would've drive me an hour and a half, two hours to even consider playing au and there, that that wasn't gonna happen. So, no. I've, I've already asked this question. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask it this way because I wanna see if you've got a different look at it. What type of players benefit most from the JUCO route? I think the kids that might not have gotten a right opportunity out of high school and or were overlooked. Kids that under recruited kids Blossom late. I think that's, those are the type of kids that really, really traditionally do best at the junior college route. You know, I hear so much of the, the scholarship coaches. I would just talk to the coach at Queen University D one and, and I hear this a lot from them about who they recruit and they go, well, we like championship programs. We like, we like going into those schools that are winning conference championships to state championships. Every year we, we, we have a field, you know, they, they produce really good kids. Is that kid that maybe didn't have great coaching, wasn't a great program, but had everything else. They were stuck. That was their high school. That was the place that, and they, they didn't get great coaching. They didn't get a lot of love. They didn't get a lot of development. But the game, the love itself never left them. It was always there through it. Is that a good fit for junior college? That kid that just needs that? Yeah, I think so. Like you're saying like some, some. Some programs and, and some players come up around like some certain stigma, right? Like, like there's this, like, winners win. Losers, losers lose, right? So there's, there's things that winners do that losers in losing programs just don't understand, right? Like, why do we clean up the benches after the end of the game? Right? Just little things like that. Just little, little tiny things that Winnie programs do that that translate. To the it to success, you know, and, and just, so maybe teaching a, a, a, a kid who's not having success or didn't grow up in a high school or middle school or AU program, whatever, that had immense amount of success. Teaching'em a little two to three things that translate that winters do. You know, I would imagine those type of kids are drawn to you that they just. They know you, you're gonna bring something out of them that no one's ever even attempted before. Absolutely. I would, I would want my son to come play for you. I feel like you would, you would get him excited about his capabilities. You know, it's, it's, it's stuff like, you know, picking stuff off, off the bench and cleaning up our mess after a game. Those aren't the kids that when they're 30, that leave their shopping cart in the middle of an aisle in the middle of the road. You know, they go quick back. They put it all absolutely all the way in because they know somebody's gotta come in and clean that up, or that might hit another car. Right? Yep. Those life lessons. That it doesn't take long for a kid to go, I, I wanna be like that. Yeah, absolutely. I wanna know lead by example type of kids. Yeah. I wanna work hard. I wanna be the example for once. Right? Yep. And, and like you're saying, my, my job is to teach these kids how to lead by example, you know? So, so a lot of times at the beginning of the year, particularly, I'll, I'll be walking around the gym, picking up the gym like crazy. Then all of a sudden it like, kinda like you're saying, it's going through their mind. Why is coach picking up after us every day? Yeah. And if they don't then we have an issue. And I recruited the wrong players. Yeah. You know, those are the type of kids I wanna see. Oh, they, they, they see me and they see other leaders and, and captains and whoever, assistant coaches, staff members leading by example. They want to be like them. Yeah. It's, it's funny, I I, I remember my first couple years as a head coach, the kids would get so frustrated with me because I wouldn't let'em throw the ball. You, you know, like, we're, we're going to a new drill. We're gonna do, you know, do, we're gonna do five on five on this end. I wouldn't let'em just throw the ball down to the other end where the cart was. We sprint down, I love Yep. Put it on the cart. We sprint back, right? Yep. And it was by, you know, again, about 18 months into my, that next six months into that next season, it was like. Now my older guys were yelling at the younger guys, Hey, we don't throw the ball. We, if you were shooting with it, you're the one that's going to the cart. You're the one that's putting on the cart and you're going, right. That's awesome. All of a sudden, I didn't have to, I wasn't the one having to do the talking, you know, so I, I love that component from a recruiting standpoint. Think about how you want to be perceived, but think about. That next level's gonna be harder than you think. Absolutely. The expectations absolutely are probably gonna be much higher of you as a person, let alone as a basketball player. Yep. Let's get into your evaluation.'cause I, I'm really intrigued with this. When you watch film. Somebody sends, you know, I know everything's online now. You, we used to get VHSs and DVDs. Now they just send you an email. When you watch film, what are you looking for first? Is there stuff that just like, come on, I got a minute and a half here. I'm, I'm heading to a meeting, I'm heading to practice. Show me something in 90 seconds. What are you looking for? The grit and toughness. Those, those are the first couple things that I look for. Like demeanor, like how do they carry themselves on the court the type of teammate they are right away. Those are the first few things that, that, that I look away after, you know I, I think, I think arrogance lose. I, I think if you, if you have a, an entitled or, or arrogant player in the sense of he's too good to do anything, dive on the floor, take a charge box out those are the type of kids I try to cross out right away. Regardless if he can score, he can shoot. Like those are the kids. No. Immediately. Immediately. No, you cannot.'Cause like we just talked about, all of a sudden he's gonna be the entitled kid that won't pick up after, won't. Lead learn from leading by example. He'll always be the type of person in his mindset that he is, you know it might be harder to, to bridge that gap in, in teaching. So those, those are the first three things I try to, like you're saying, in our valuation process, I try to eliminate those things first. And if you've made it through that first cut line. Alright, then I'll dive into the deeper stuff. Yeah. All right. Now I'll, now I'll watch a full court. You know, how, how, how do your parents react at games? Yeah. I, I'm at the junior college level and we're the lowest level in all of New Hampshire College basketball. I've gone to more high school games this year and crossed out kids because of how parents in, in their how they're just acting. Acting. Yeah. Hello, mom and dad. I know you're listening. Let's get into it a little bit. Let's talk about what you're seeing and what turns you off from their kid and they don't even know it. Oh, the, the biggest thing, one of the biggest things is social media talking either about their kid team, other people, how they're promoting their, their, their child's success. It's very it's, it's, it's scary. It, it, it really is. What if it's all positive, but it's constant flow of that's, that's where it even gets even more. It's, it's, my son is, is cannot do no wrong. He, he's on a pedestal almost, you know? And so those are the ones, it's even scarier where, where it's like, all right, you gotta go to the next level, and I'm trying to hold your son accountable and coaching him hard and he might not be able to to receive it because he is only been told how good he is his whole entire life. I hear you. All right. Point guard. I was a point guard. I know you're a point guard. To me, it's the hardest position to evaluate. Absolutely. I, I can watch a center, I can watch a shooting guard and. I don't need to see'em a whole lot to know they can play and they can do the things I need'em to do. Point guards. I may watch six films. I may see'em play live three or four times. I may make them come in and play with my guys and get my guys' opinion of them. Where are you at with evaluating point guards? What do you, what do you have? The, the two biggest things that I, I, I try to evaluate is their emotional and, and mental stability. Can they make decisions when they're not having success? Let's say they have a turnover, they miss a free throw, they. They have a messed up defensive assignment, but that next possession, you gotta get us into offense. And, and you gotta get four other guys, three other guys, two other guys in a correct position. But you're all messed up mentally. Are you able to be mentally tough enough to get through that situation? Yeah. So mentally and, and emotionally. The two biggest things that, that I, that I look for right away, I like the fire. I like a point guard with fire. I was a. Squared on my sleeve, kind of point guard. Yep. So I'm, I'm drawn to that. I'm drawn to the fire, the, the Isaiah Thomas', the Jason Williams. But I find myself craving the John Stockton's, the, you know, even though John was quite a trash talker and people don't know that dirty as hell. But the guys that are just level, is there one that you like better than others? Like, like type of point guard are you saying or? Yeah. The, the guy that's not afraid to get into the six, nine, you know, 5, 8, 6 nines face. Yep. I need you to catch the ball. You're not running. Yep, far. I need you to be looking at me all the time. Don't turn your back to me.'cause I'm looking at you. Is it that guy or is it. Yeah, I,'cause I, I grew up in the northeast area, so I've always been obsessed with like the New York City point guards. Yeah. In the sense of like, you know, just dogs like tough, physical gritty, get up in you type of point guards pass first, you know, not, not a, not a shooting is obviously now changing the game. But, but I, I don't care if my pointer can or cannot shoot. I need somebody who can get us into offense, be the tough, more physical leader. A person that the other guys on the team are looking for in those moments. You know, those are the, that's my type of point guard. Yeah. I, I want you to make sure that their point guard. Wants to put up the white flag about 15 minutes to go in the game. Absolutely. I want you to ly dog him so hard that he wants to quit. He's asking and then even like then, and then getting even deeper at the, the next level. You, you know, and when, when we do our scouting reports, you know, absolutely everything about the scouting report in our, in our, in what our game plan is. You know,'cause then all of a sudden when you're on the floor. I can't be out on the floor all the ways with you. I, I, I, I'm not in the, you know, in the mix at, at times. And, and if, you know, as our, the starting point guard what he should be doing, you're extension of the coach. So then on the floor you can coach the kids up. Absolutely. You know, so right now sorry to, to cut you off. No, go ahead. I was cutting you off my, my you know, my starting point guard's a freshman right now. So that's what we're going through right now. And, and he's like, he's like, yeah, but I don't always want to say it. And I'm like, no, that's your, that's your job. Like, like, you know, I know. You know. So now it's just you having the confidence as a, as a freshman to tell the sophomore, Hey, this is what you should have been doing. Hey, this is your type of closeout on this type of kid next time. Like, just little things like that. Yeah. I would stop practices. And I would look at my point guard and I go, is there something you wanna say to your, your two? He go, no, coach. I was like, you sure he, I don't know what you're talking about, coach. Did he run the lane hard for you? Well, kind. Yeah, he Did he run his route hard for you? No. Coach. Was he looking at you? When he was wide open, was he, was he ready to receive the ball when you were ready to throw it? No. Coach. Tell him, Hey man, you gotta run. You gotta run the floor harder. No. And then make sure he knows it so he knows he's not gonna get the ball from you ever again until he starts doing it the right way. Absolutely. And I would make him. Say it the right way with the right tone and the right voice, and I'd kick him in the butt until he does it. And then I look at the shooting guard and I go, do you have any problem shooting guard with him talking to you like that? He goes, no, coach. You know,'cause how are we gonna get there if we don't understand? We're gonna get on each other a little bit. Yeah. Can't just be Coach Dixon pushing us all the time. Right. It's, we gotta start challenging each other. That's what I want out of my point guard and from my high school coach, that's what I learned. Exactly like you just said. It is so much easier to hear it from a teammate than always hear it from the head coach. Absolutely. So if you got your leaders and your teammates consistently saying the right things that I'm gonna be saying anyway. Oh, we're already better off. So, so much better off as a program. Yep. And, and I teach my guys too, and my gals this too, whoever I'm coaching is if you can do that in a group, so if the point guard speaks up, but the other senior who's a three, speaks up and goes, come on John, you better than that. Let's go. You heard him? Let's go. And, and all of a sudden that pack, that pack of wolves. Every, you don't wanna be the outside wolf. Absolutely. Right? Yep. And, and it's so easy to see that when it's, it's a little harder on film, but when you get to see a kid play live, you get to figure that out pretty quickly, don't you? Very, very apparent. How important is it for you, and I already know the answer to this, but I want you to put some context with it. How important is direct communication? From an athlete you're recruiting, do you like when they reach out to you and say, coach, I'm interested in your program. Do you like that direct communication? And what do you like it? In what form do you want it in? Like, like social media, like email, text is, is that what you're saying? How, however, do you want'em to call you? Do you like phone calls from recruits? Is there something you prefer? If every co recruit did this for you, what would you prefer? Yeah. I, I think the biggest piece right now especially is, is forming the correct email, how to get to coaches. Okay. That is, I think that like, I think there should be a class on that in college right now or for, for high school athletes is just how to send inform. Somebody should write a book on it. Did you really coach Dixon? Somebody should, somebody should write a book on all these things. I'm, I'll send you one. No, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I need one. I need to read it bad'cause'cause it's just, I, I think what you're saying, I think college coaches need to know what athletes are interested in their program. Yes. If you were interested in my program, I des you deserve time from me to dive into why you were interested in this program. Right. I want kids who want to be here. All right. So then now, so then if I need, I need film, I need transcripts. I need to know where you're from. If you send me an email, Hey, I'm John. I'm interested in your program. What am I do? Why? Like, I need to know something about you more. Then, then just, John, interested in your program. Where are you from? What grade are you in? How old are you? You, you know, I just, I, I think this stuff is very, very important. The, the more time you save a college coach that you're reaching out to, that he doesn't have to dive into, the more you're gonna get back, the more feedback. If I have to, all of a sudden you're, you're drawn. I have to look, you look you up, find your film, and you didn't provide it in that email. Okay. You're wasting the college coach's time and or you're hurting yourself in the recruiting process. That's right. I teach kids if, if you're not making their job easy to recruit you, you don't want to get recruited. And, and I, and so then like we can go further into it, like your social media page, you know, so like in your social media page, do you have film in there or do you have your contact information? Do you have your hometown? Is your profile picture you. You know what I mean? You reach, you don't, you won't even know how many kids reach out to me that you're interested and their, their profile picture is Superman. Yeah. I don't even know what you look like. Yeah. But you want, you're interested in my program and you want me to come watch you play, but I don't know what you look like. Right. I have no clue what you look like. That's right. That's not, and then you don't have your number. You don't even have the school you go to on your bio, but you're interested in our program. Just little tiny things. I think separate kids, it's huge. I, I, it drives me crazy when college coaches will say, Matt, I, I don't like it. That kid kids will use recruiting services. I was like, coach. Your job would be so fricking hard if kids didn't use recruiting services. Yeah. Because that is your opportunity to see film, grade, schedule, contact information, transcripts, coaches', information. Yep. Picture, you know, you name it, you gotta click a link and 90 seconds, everything you need, everything. Decide if that kid's worth your time is in that. So I absolutely reach kids. If you're gonna have an Instagram account, a TikTok account, a Twitter account. Get a link up there. It could be field level, it could be sports recruits. It could be NCSA, it could be YouTube, but make sure everything is in that link for Coach Dixon to click on it and go, oh, all right, this is, this. Kid's worth my time. Absolutely love it. Four things I teach you. Tell me if I'm wrong. When I, when a kid sends an email, this is why I'm interested in you. You got a nursing program, you got a biology program. I wanna be close to home. I love your style of play. Number two is why should you be interested in me? I'm a junior, two year starter, average 10 and 10. I love leadership. I'm, I'm, I'm the guy that wants to be coached, whatever that may be. Third thing is that link. Where's that, where can I find everything I need? Here's, here's how you recruit me. Film grades. And then the fourth thing is, what do you want in return from Coach Dixon? Does that help you to know, I want some feedback. Would you look at my film and let me know what you think? Would, would you let me know if I can play at your level? Would you be open to a phone call? Right. Do you want those four things? Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Those, those, those, those four. Nailed it. Nailed it. Four sentences. And that's a, that's a good enough email for you, right? Absolutely. That's perfect. That's all I need. Yeah. Alright. Awesome. If a player wants to use Juco. As a pathway to four year college, what should their focus be from day one? Just being where their feet are every day. Like, like, like there's no, there's no stone unturned or leave no stone unturned. Like, like did you do absolutely everything academically today? Did you take care of your body? Like, is your, is your feet hurting? All right, so you need to ice. Did you get your 500 shots in? Did you prac, like, did you practice as hard as absolutely possible. Just leaving, like, like taking each day, just one day at a time and just trying to improve each day. It's, it's like the old motivational statement. Don't worry about the scoreboard. Yep. Do what you're supposed to do. And the scoreboard. Yep. Process, right. Process based. You bust your butt every day and you bring it and you're prepared and the production's gonna come, and it's gonna be a lot easier to get you recruited to the next level if you're bringing it every day. Right. Absolutely. And like, and like you're saying, the thing I teach my kids the coolest part about JU going JUCO is we don't really if you're the four year program, you're, you're gonna go to, doesn't really care about your high school transcripts anymore. That's right. You know, it's all about, it's all about your, your college transcript. So you know, it's what you do right now that really, really matters for your next, your next two years. And it doesn't really what you did before. You know what I mean? So it's, everything's left in the past if you were a 2.0 student in high school. You know, they, it's great. Okay. Now you can be a 4.0 student at the college level. That's right. It's, it's, it's, it might be the greatest thing you could have said, coach, because how many times in life do you get to reinvent yourself? Ex abs? None. Like, barely, ever. And, and Juco gives you that ability to go. I was a dummy. I didn't work hard. I know I messed around. I'm not being that guy anymore. Yep. This is who I'm gonna be from here on out. Right? Yep. Absolutely. What separates JUCO players who move on from those who don't? Those guys that just get those two years, or those guys that get those extra years play? I don't, I, I, I think there's a lot of kids and, and I think it's changing a little bit now. I think a lot more colleges are looking into recruiting junior college athletes. But I think there are still tons and tons of kids at the next level or at the junior college level that don't get recruited to, to four year programs. You know, there's just, and, and, and like you're saying, they're just waiting until the last opportunity and. And then it might just, might not, not come, you know? And I, I just, I think it's a shame. And, and there's just, so, there's only so many roster spots at the division one, division two, division three level. There's just, it is what it is, you know? And I, I, I think there are tons of kids that I've competed against in the next. The, the last few years that I know who are not on a college roster right now. That should be and or could, could be. You know so I, I, I, I really don't know. I just, I, I think there are tons and tons of talented kids at this level who, who just don't get a fair share and, and, and or you know, the right, take the right path at times. And there's so many four year programs out there, NAID three. The nnc a, a a, you know, NAID two, there's so many kids on the ends of some of those rosters that have no business being there. Yeah. They just didn't work. Right. They made Right, right. They sent the email. Right. They showed up. You know, so I, I think all the advice you've given about recruiting goes right to those JUCO kids that are freshmen and sophomores that wanna play it the next year. You gotta keep doing the same stuff when you go to juco. Yep. Right? Yep. And, you know, so I, I'm thankful for my opportunity going out and, and, and being in Minnesota for two years and coaching out there.'cause that league was incredible. That league was full of four year players. So for me personally, I, I hope to continue to. You know, work my way up as a, as a coach and hopefully get back to the four year level at, at one point. And I will always be recruiting that Minnesota JUCO level. You, you know what I mean? That's what, that's what I'll, that's what I take out of that. It's, it's just loaded. It's just, you can win, you can win national championships at every level with the best kids outta that, the league. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's, that's what's crazy. That's, that's a really great point. Coach, give a piece of advice to a 7-year-old that wants to play in college. What's the best advice you can give? Just honestly be where your feet are every day. Every day. You just have to get better. You know, and it might not call it might take 700 days, right? It might almost take two years, and then the 701st day it finally clicks. Right. So just, you just gotta keep going every single day until it happens. If, and you just, if you make up your mind, like, what do you wanna do? If you wanna do something, set your mind to it and then don't falter, don't, don't make any excuses. Oh, all right. Well so and so got to this and then he stopped. Or I got to 300 days in and now I'm gonna change my mind. No, give it your all for whatever, whatever you have left. Love it. Is there, I wanna say this the right way. Is there a path for every kid that wants it or Absolutely. Or should some kids move on? No, I, I think like looking at Kurt ti the, the head coach at Indiana University this past year, I think he, I think he just turned 65, was it? Yeah. And he, he left, he, he was a head coach in Alabama, or an assistant coach for Nick Saban at Alabama. And he left to become D two head coach at like 50 something years old. Yeah, right. You know, so everybody's path is different and I think that's what the cool part about life. And, and I, I just, that's, that's how I take it. And I know my path is gonna be different. It's different than the. Whoever's path, but I think that's, I think that's the beauty of life. We talked about the how important it was to email a coach. If you're interested, what weight do you put on that kid that sends the email and calls you and says, Hey coach, I just want you to hear my voice. I really wanna talk to you. I'd really love your opinion on me. I'd really love your feedback. Is there more weight to that phone call than the email? Is that, is that important to you? It, it, maybe not, not the phone call, but like, like the kid consistently reaching out and, and consistently showing effort and, and, and wanting to be recruited and wanting to be at the program. I think that that speaks volumes. Like, I want kids who want to be here and want it, you know, so if you're, like, if you're at the top of my inbox every time I open up my phone, I, I think there's a good chance that, that you're gonna get recruited and or evaluated and talked to and can, by by somebody on the staff. Yeah. Way quicker than somebody who's just one email and then never hear from'em again. The persistence that, that's the kid that really, you know, they're, they're serious about you. There's, they've done their work. Absolutely. Absolutely. I always liked the phone call because it, it told me they had the courage. There's yeah, the courage to pick up the phone.'cause I work with kids that have never left a voicemail. They're 17 years old and they've never left a voicemail in their life. And I'm just like. Ugh. How does that happen? How do you never leave a voicemail for your parents? And because they's funny grown up texting and I think it's, it's, it's baffled me, but I I I want them to understand when a coach can hear your voice, that's where the relationship really starts. Right? Right. They, they hear your character. Absolutely. You're nervous, you're shy, you're, you're, you're getting out of your comfort zone To make it clear, I wanna play for you. I, you know, I'm gonna mess this call up, but I, I'm calling you even though it's hard, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Give a piece of advice to parents going through this journey. What's one thing they need to be thinking about for that kid that wants their child, that wants to play at the next level? Just let your kid make mistakes and be your kid. You know, like, like I, one of my pet peeves as, as a coach if I go to an AU game or a high school game, the kid looking at the parent in the stands for when he makes a mistake and or makes, makes, like, has success. Yeah. And it's just like, no, like, just, just you be, you. Like, just allow your kid to be a kid and, you know, my, some of my friends are, are having kids now. And they, they're, they're playing sports and it's the same kind of thing. Like all of a sudden they're coaching from the sideline and it's like, just let their coach be their coach, and you can coach'em when you get home and you can, and you can talk to'em then. But in, in the moment, just let your kid be a kid and make mistakes and learn. Let your kid fail. It's okay. Can't wait till you have a 13-year-old girl. I'm just gonna, I'm gonna be all over you. It's so hard. I can only imagine, tell my daughter, I can't even imagine. I can tell my daughter, don't look at me. Just, I, I love you. You know, I know you're looking for help, but that person there on the bench that coaches you every day, that's the person you're looking to for help. I, I will talk after the game. Don't look at me. Yep. It's, it's hard as a parent, it, it, it's, it's not easy. I've been asking this question more and more because I feel like. There's so many high school coaches that don't feel like it's their job to help their kids get to the next level, or they just simply don't know how to do it. Yeah. What advice would you give to a high school coach about maybe building a relationship with local college coaches or helping their kids with that step to get to that next level? What role should they be playing? Yeah. It's, it's huge, you know?'cause it's like the, you're, as their high school coach, you're around them every day. So like, I, I, I have to reach out to high school coaches when I recruit a kid.'cause I wanna know how that kid responds to coaching. Is he a great kid all the time with like, what does he do? You know, I, I wanna know what type of person this kid is. So I think hearing from the high school coach is the most important thing. So I think high school coaches should be consistently reaching out to. College coaches. Yeah. But then the, the, the, the other biggest pieces is understanding the evaluation process, right? So in our area, I, I don't think my high school coach should be reaching out to Dan Hurley at Yukon being like, Hey, I have a kid for you. You know? So I, I, I think it's understanding the, the level and or no, no program is, is is bad or, or like, like, or what, what's the word I'm gonna, no program is too good for, for the kid I have. Right? Like your kid has zero recruitment. You probably shouldn't be sending'em to a division one, division two kid. The program being like, I have a scholarship player. Right. No, you should be sending'em to the, the, the local junior colleges. The local division threes, and trying to gain interest in that sense. Yeah. And just, I, I. Talk. Talk to Coach Dixon. You're gonna understand your kid's value better. Absolutely. And you assuming what their value is. Coach Dixon's gonna tell you, Hey, yeah, I think he could play here. Or, you know, he needs to work on this, this, this, if he wants to play higher. But I think he can play here, you know? Absolutely. Absolutely. And like you're saying, I, I just think simple, simple emails. I think you can do it on, like using social media, posting your roster roster size, contact information. I, I think it's, it's very, very simple. Like I think every high school team in the country should have like a social media post that has their, their roster, the coaches on it, the coaches contact information. You obviously not putting high school kids. Contact information out there, but you can, the high school coach's contact information, 1000% should be. I love that. That's gonna be my coaching tip of the week in my newsletter. I love that. That's so smart, coach. It really is. I mean, why wouldn't you, why wouldn't you post your roster on your social media and pin it? So any college absolutely that happens upon you or goes and watches your film, they know exactly who's on your roster. They know their number, they know their size, they know what year of school they are. They've got your phone number there if they wanna call you about a kid. Man, that is really great advice. Gosh, that's. As I, as you know, as a junior college coach I, no, no, I can't leave a stone unturned, so I go watch random games all the time. I, I go out and I go recruiting anywhere and anywhere, you know, I wanna know everybody. And so all of a sudden I'll be like, oh kid from, I'm from Manchester, so I'll just use Manchester. I go watch a Manchester game. And then I go to their website and I can't find a roster. I go to their social media. I have no clue who this kid is. So I could be, as I'm just sitting there in the stands, it could take me 10 seconds to find out who this kid is and who the coach is and, and find the coach's contact information in 10 seconds. That's right. But now then if, if, if you don't have anything up there, it takes a little bit longer. You, you know what I mean? And it's, it's becomes a little bit harder and trickier. So many coaches, they won't update the numbers. Right. So you like number 10 and on the website it's like, kid wasn't five foot six, right? Right. Freshman, you know. Right. Number 10 was six foot one and 190 pounds and looked like a senior, you know? Right. So that drives me crazy too. Take take the 20 minutes before your season and get your roster. Right. It's like, yep. I'm sure you use max preps or something like that. Yeah. Yep. I was a high school coach. It doesn't take that long to get that information out there and get it right and keep it updated. No, Nope. Coach again, man, thank you so much for doing this. You're everything I thought you'd be and a hundred times more. Your future is so bright. And I hope you don't mind. I'm gonna be calling you and, and pastoring you to talk. Great talk, switching defense and everything else under the sun. But if I could ever help you or your players in any shape or form, you just call. You got me. Awesome. No, thank you so much for having me, and it's been so much fun. And thank you for all the kind words. It, it really, really means a lot. Good luck in playoffs. We'll be cheering for you. Thank you. I appreciate it. That was Dawson Dixon head, men's basketball coach at Great Bay Community College in New Hampshire. The junior college path isn't a backup plan, it's a developmental plan for the right student athletes. It creates growth and maturity and the opportunity to reposition yourself for the right four year fit. You heard Coach Dixon and I talk about when do you ever get a chance to get a do over junior college gives you that opportunity. The key is using the experience the right way, both academically and athletically and personally, so that when the next opportunity comes, you're ready for it. If you're looking for more tools and resources to help you take ownership of your recruiting journey, you can find my books, the Recruiting Journals, podcasts, and you can subscribe to my weekly newsletter for exclusive recruiting and coaching tips@coachmattrogers.com. And if this conversation helped you. Or you just had fun listening to it, make sure you subscribe on YouTube, apple Podcasts or Spotify. Leave a comment. I love to hear what you have to say And share this episode with a friend or family who's navigating that recruiting journey, or a coach who just needs a little direction, and maybe to hear what other coaches have to think about their program. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control. Stay humble and keep chasing significance.