Episode #178: Kevin Clifford

🏀 From Coaching Ron Artest to the NCAA Sweet 16 | Kevin Clifford

On this episode of the Significant Coaching Podcast, Matt Rogers sits down with Kevin Clifford, Head Women's Basketball Coach at Roberts Wesleyan University for a fun and wide-ranging conversation about leadership, culture, recruiting, mental health, and the realities of coaching college basketball today.

Coach Clifford shares stories from his journey rebuilding programs at multiple collegiate stops, leading Roberts Wesleyan University to its first NCAA Division II Tournament appearance and Sweet 16 run, and even coaching former NBA great Metta Sandiford-Artest as a 15-year-old coach.

The conversation also dives into:

•  Building belief inside a program 
•  Mental Health Mondays 
•  Relationships in coaching 
•  NCAA Division II basketball 
•  Recruiting realities 
•  Leadership growth 
•  Old-school hip-hop and DJ life 
•  The changing landscape of college athletics 

Find more coaching and recruiting resources at coachmattrogers.com.

Transcript

0:09

On the latest edition of the Significant Coaching Podcast, a presentation of the Coach Matt Rogers YouTube channel, available audio only everywhere you get your favorite podcasts. I'm your host, Matt Rogers. This week, I'm joined by the head women's basketball coach at Roberts Wesleyan University, Kevin Clifford, and this episode was just a lot of fun. Like so many great college basketball coaches, Coach Clifford can absolutely tell a story. Honestly, that's probably the one coaching gift I was never blessed with myself, but I've always loved asking questions and letting great coaches take people through their experiences, relationships, and moments that shaped who they became, and Coach Clifford absolutely delivered in this conversation. We dive into his coaching journey, rebuilding programs at multiple stops, leading Roberts Wesleyan to its first NCAA Division II tournament appearance and Sweet 16 run, and what he's learned about leadership, culture, and building belief inside a program. And yes, we even get into those stories of him becoming a head coach at 15 years old and coaching former NBA great Metta Sanderford Artest, or as many of you may remember him, Ron Artest or Metta World Peace as a kid. That alone is worth the listen. We also spent time talking about the changing world of college athletics, mental health, recruiting, old school hip-hop, his early days as a DJ, and why coaches who love music usually have a pretty good feel for people too. It really felt like two basketball guys sitting around talking hoops, life, leadership, and music. And as always, make sure you check out this week's new blog and all our coaching and recruiting resources at coachmattrogers.com. So sit back and enjoy part one of my conversation with Coach Kevin Clifford. Coach Clifford, so great to see you. You and I have had so many conversations over the last couple months, and I'm excited that we get to be face-to-face to have a conversation together. Yeah. Thanks for having me, Matt. And a small world, Coach Dario says hello, yeah. Our, both of our mutual friend Dario, what a great job he just got. I'm excited for him to lead a college program. It's long time coming. So yeah I'm excited for him. Coach, I wanna get into your history a little bit. You've now rebuilt and elevated programs at multiple stops. What have you learned about the process of taking over a program and creating that belief early on? Yeah, great question. I appreciate having having me on, and thanks for all the tips in our conversation a couple weeks ago. Bob Segave, our athletic director, told me about your podcast and Coach Bett from our conference was on it. Yeah. And Coach Cleary. So I listened to them, and it really got me going, so that's how we kinda connected. But yeah, my journey's been yeah, very interesting. I started when I was 15 years old as an assistant coach. And interesting story, I was an assistant coach under this guy, John Mann, that coached me. He was just a neighborhood guy, and he was a volunteer. Great coach. And he started bringing me down, and we started doing skill work breaking up the guards and forwards, I think, before anybody... Doing it 30, 40 years ago. He was onto something there. Then next year I was an assistant coach with this guy, Ray. And he couldn't coach, so I become the head coach at 15 years old, coaching youth basketball. Wow. And guess who's on my team? Ron Artest. Metta World Peace. Metta. He came over from the projects with two other guys, Scotty and Arthur, and I was the coach. I had the parents drive me to the games. So I coached for a couple years, and then I went to prep school. And then my prep school coach, Jerry Quinn, great coach, he told me I was gonna be a teacher and a coach, and I was like, "Ah." I was coaching already, but I really didn't know it was gonna be my career. And then- I know a lot of people don't know what they're gonna do, right? I teach now in a business class, and some people don't know. Some people do have I'm gonna be a nurse, I'm gonna be a doctor," and they have it mapped out. But I didn't really know. And then I started, I played Division II and Division I basketball at Sacred Heart. When I came back home, I wasn't coaching, and then I started coaching boys' high school CYO again, high school, and then I moved up the ranks, started coaching Division III men's basketball, and then I switched over to the women's. I took over City College. They had four wins, three wins, two wins, one win, so just taking that over. I think it's about relationships. Recruiting was really the backbone, and I really didn't know what I was doing. I just had to learn, and I bought some books and looked at some itineraries and things like that. But I was just out there. Anywhere, any leagues, games, I was just out there. The next year I got- I become the women's head coach at City College. We're 0 and 25. So the progression was four, three, two, one, and then zero. I probably shouldn't have taken the job, but it made me a better coach. I had to do everything from community service, to fundraising, to recruiting, to coaching, and I was teaching part- full time. So it was a part-time job making a couple thousand dollars. So it's not the money, especially if you wanna get into coaching to start. Yes, the people on TV are making a lot of money and millions, but but I really wanted to do this. And my good friend Glenn got me the men's assisting job at City College, then I became the women's head coach. After that, we won 8 games and 13 games, so we won 21 games in two years. So we really turned the program around, and that's how the journey started. So did I answer your question or...? No, that's great. It's good to hear that history of... 'Cause I have a similar history in terms of the obstacles you have to go through coaching and what you have to overcome. So I, I love it. No, and it's a gr- a great transition too, Coach, because at Roberts Wesleyan you took over that program and you advanced them to the NCAA Division II tournament. And I think, was that the first time in the school history? Yes. So I went from City College to Mount Saint Vincent. I became the assistant athletic director and the cross country coach. I worked for Jay Butler, and now Jay Butler's back in Rochester. His wife is the VP for advancement, so it's full circle, relationships- connections. I really preach that in my class. And genuine, not trying to like just get a job, right? Really trying to connect and stay in touch with people. Yeah. It's not easy to do. I try to stay in touch with former coaches, former players. So at Mount Saint Vincent, we were in last place, worst to first. We played the song Started at the Bottom and Here We Are every day, I- in the game, for the games- Yeah every game day. So the players will now 10, 15 years later that they're laughing about that, right? They're, they don't remember any plays that we ran, but they remember that stuff. At Mount Saint Vincent, the first year we were the same record, seven and 18, and next year we went 18 and seven. We flipped the record. We, which was not really- Geez a goal, but we lost in the championship game, and I had a lot of freshmen mad. They were crying in the locker room. I had, I didn't know what to say. The next year I had to kick them out of the gym. I'm like, "Go eat. Go study." They were really in the gym a lot, and you knew the culture changed, right? Yeah. The next year we lost to Farmingdale twice during the season. They got player of the year and the coach of the year. A lot of people let me know about that. And then we went to the championship at Farmingdale, we beat them by 25 points in the championship game So we won the championship, we won a championship first time in school history. We were 22 and 6. So we did it in three years. So rebuilding is not easy, but I've On the boys side, we always really had pretty good teams. On the women's side, I've become the rebuilder and architect of that. Then I got the job at Buffalo State. I was there for three years. We made we struggled early on some injuries, good conference. And then our third year, we went to we were 14 points away from the championship game. And then I got recommended for the job at Roberts, and Roberts was a great program. Bob Segade was the coach and then Gary Andrews. They were NAIA to 2012. When I took over the program, they had a lot of wins. They, some- those better players either graduated or transferred out before I got there. So we didn't have a lot of players my first year. We had about eight to 10 players, and we also had a JV developmental team, Matt, that we talked about, which is not easy to to manage both of those. I don't coach both of them, but I oversee both programs. And it's good for our assistant coaches because they get to usually coach that team and and become a head coach and get it on their resume. So we try to give back to them. And then we won 15 games that year, and we were on demand. And then we went to we were three and six, and we won nine straight. We made a sor- a change up of the lineup at halftime against D'Youville, and we scored 30 points in one quarter. And we were averaging- Wow and we were averaging 35 points in up to that point. We had a really good team, a lot of freshmen. It was the year after COVID. We won nine straight, Matt. Three and six, we won nine straight, and then we lost to Damon by 70 points in three games, and we beat them in a championship game. And th- that was our first championship in school history And then we beat AIC, a really good team in the first round. We were in a bubble. We were all at Damon, which was like a crazy thing. I remember all that, yeah. Y- yeah, we were playing with masks on. We have pictures with all of us in masks and uniforms and suits and things like that And thank you for all the people that did the testing and the hosting, 'cause it was not easy. Then we played Dominican. They were undefeated. And funny story, Matt, Coach Rosati he's been coaching for over 50 years. He recommended me for the job. He coached our athletic director, which was the former basketball coach, Bob Segave. He listens to your podcast. And Coach Rosati comes in the locker room and goes, "We got them right where we want them." I was, we were down 14. I was livid. I was like... I, and you know what? He changed the mindset. I don't know if that was his intention, but he said, "They're in foul trouble. They're tired. The way we play, we really wanna play uptempo and fast." And all of a sudden second half we had a chance to beat them at the buzzer and we didn't, and we beat them in double overtime. And then we had to play Damon again in the Sweet 16. So we end up winning that game when we were down by 14. So just the resilience of that group, and then we lost in the Sweet 16 to Damon. Damon was really good that year. They beat us four out of five times, but we beat them in the championship game. And that was And we've been rebuilding a little bit now since the the transfer portal, but that was a really good team. That's awesome. And it, those are the stories when you're a college coach or a high school coach. It's not always the winning seasons. It's the kids that overcome obstacles or do some things that nobody expected them to do that you remember the most. Isn't that the case? I agree. My favorite team is probably the Mount Saint Vincent team, 'cause they're the closest, and that was our first championship, even for me. Yeah. But my first women's team at City College, we had six players, Matt. We had two players foul out, and the referees, they're asking me for five players. I said, "You just fouled two of our players out." I was like, "Whose is this?" I was like, "Our team's on the court," right? So- That's right. Gene Hackman, baby Yeah. So I was like, I had to do the four pass rule too. I had to do study hall the next year. We went from a 1.6 match to a 3.16 GPA. Wow and that really helped us at City College through the big turnaround. Yeah but my favorite team, like those players, like we weren't, we were 0 and 25, and we lost two games that we could have won. The other games were blowouts, but th- that team was like great kids, right? Great people, right? Even though it was not a winning season, I still remember them. I still stay in touch with a lot of them, coach, talk about we've had so many great people on from the ECC and from the commissioner through coaches and ADs, and it's just, it's a great conference, and it's a competitive conference, and it's a healthy conference. Academics is obviously a very high priority in your league. T- but talk a little bit about the community at Roberts, your assistant coaches. Talk, for those families and high school coaches that don't understand that it's not you running a practice two hours a day and that's the basketball program, talk a little bit about how that community builds Robert Wesley in basketball and how you're able to kinda get where you wanna go because of those people around you. Yeah I agree. I think it boils life, right? It's not just the practice, it's everything, right? Yeah. I'm getting better at it with the balance with my wife and my stepson and things like that. My advice to college coaches and coaches, take care of home court. And what that means is take care of your house. Like I just did the garden leaves- Yeah All that stuff. Take care of that stuff at your house, 'cause when you're away for three, four days, it's a little easier, right? Also, I played for Jerry Quinn, and our goal, our only goal, and we won the championship that too, so I won championships as a player and a coach. And we had a really good team. Eddie Cota played at North Carolina. Devin Adies played for Florida State and Iona some other guys. But Jerry Quinn then, he had Andrew Drummond at his... He's in the pros. He's coached a lot of legendary players, but his goal was to go undefeated at home. Yeah. He knew if we won all the home games, you'll le- at least finish over 500. We were 25 and 0, lost the last two games on the road, and then we won the whole thing. So he's a great coach. But so home co- so take care of your house, at your house, your home and your wife, kids, family cause work is gonna be there, and I know we get consumed with it. I do 12-hour days and things like that- yeah during the season. As you've been there. And then take care of home court, and we're trying to get better at that. Winning you wanna win on the road too, but I think if you gotta win at home too. But the conference, East Coast Conference, I love it. I'm from Queens, New York. We played down there three times, so former players, coaches, and parents come down. Recruits come to the games. It's really nice to see a lot of the College of Mount St. Vincent players. We play in Staten Island. I had six of them. They come to the games. So my brother my family, friends, so that's really good. And then we play, we travel a lot, right? We go to New York City, we go to Buffalo, we go to Pennsylvania. A couple years ago, we went to Florida. And but our team, Roberts Wesleyan is a great place. The community, the family. We have a new president. We're excited about him. He starts in the summertime. Bob Segave, our athletic director, was a former basketball coach. So Kelly does it all for us on game day and things like that. I do wanna shout out Paula, Femi, Sharon, Sean Sim, Kelly, the people that do all the game day stuff. I don't wanna forget anybody. Yeah Marissa and Sarah are also administrators, and Mike Deedee, so they really help us with all the programs. And then Andy, the women's volleyball coach, does the book for us, so we have so many people. And Coach Mark, the men's coach, as I get along with them. You hear some stories about other schools, men and women, they fight over gym schedule. We're really flexible. But Roberts is a special place, community, family. We have a lady, Aunt Sue, that makes birthday cards and birthday cakes for all the recruits and parents. Matt, funny story. I c- come back February, around the 22nd. We have a home game. I go to the office. We win the game, and there's a cake on my desk, and I'm like I'm thinking it's for one of the players. It's for me. My birthday's March 22nd, but she gave me an early birthday cake. So it was pretty exciting. But it's awesome the relationships, the people, like Tammy Butler now. Jay Butler's my athletic director. She's the VP of advancement. So I teach a class there. I teach a sports management class. It's a really fun, hands-on class, and people... I meet so many student athletes and students. So I walk around campus, "Hey, Coach Cleff. Hey, Coach Cleff." So I really like that atmosphere. It's smaller, the classroom size is but parents and families, you're looking for a great Christian private school, it's a safe place. The the campus security are retired sheriffs. But the professors are the ones, Matt, that really make it happen, 'cause we do travel, and they do miss some class time, so we have to FaceTime in. We w- doing work on the bus. We have study halls and things like that, but to me, it's inclusive, family, community. It's just a special place. This is the pl- longest place I've been at. Yeah City College was seven years, but this is- been eight years so far, so they've treated me really well. And and we've had ups and downs, but we've had a pretty good consistent run. The conference has gotten a lot better now, too. Our staff is unbelievable. Dan Dunne was the... Played for the first Big East team. He played against Patrick Ewing and Olajuwon, and all those guys. A- and that's when Big East was Big East, man. Nice. I loved that time. My brother Brian played Niagara in the Hall of Fame. He's in the Hall of Fame there. I'm not sure if you kn- knew that. But so him and Coach Dunne have similar paths. They both went to Loyola Lutheran, and they're in the Hall of Fame there. My brother's at Niagara, he's in the Hall of Fame, and Dan Dunne coached at Niagara. And then Dan ended up becoming assistant coach with us. Sure Small world in terms of that. My brother played for Jack Armstrong. Jack is the color commentary for the Raptors, so I got to go to game three for the Raptors, so that was pretty cool. And then Coach Esposito he was a high school coach. I've known him for years from recruiting. I recruited his player when I was at Buff State, and I didn't know that he knew Coach Rosati. And when Coach Rosati retired, C- Coach Esposito wanted to get into coaching, but he came to all our practi- a lot of our practicing games already, so it was an easy transition. Coach Sheila works in admissions, and she's also our assistant coach. So she has four kids. I don't know how she does it. They come to the game, and they try to go into my office and steal all the chocolate and candy, but, And then we have a lady coach, Agent Callie, helps out with our JV program, and we're looking to hire- Nice a new coach. Nice. I it's... I asked the question, I really appreciate your love for your people and the love for your community and I think families need to hear that, that to, to run a college program, especially at the D2 level it takes an army. And it takes, G- 'cause you're not just bringing these kids in to get a degree and say, "See you later." There's so much that goes into these kids every day in terms of their mental health, their physical health, their academic health, and making sure they have the support they need. But on top of that, they're there to play basketball, too, and you want that environment to be awesome for them. And it's the people around that you, you spoke about that make it healthy and make it fun and give them that experience that they hope it's gonna be. So I love that. I wanna talk a little bit about the differences that you see. Again, I think it's important for high school coaches and families and club coaches. I think too much goes into, "I wanna play Division I, that's my only goal," or, "I gotta earn a scholarship." You've coached at every level. Talk a little bit about what as the real differences between D3 and NAIA and D2 and D1. Yeah, great question. I sent you some stats, Matt, before. Yeah. And we could try to share that with them. Real quick I love Division II because of the balance. With our school, we have film, we work out, we have pre-season, during the season, but we have r- hours and CARA hours that people don't know about, C-A-R-A, the accountable athletic relatable activities, and it's all through Teamworks now. So we just have to plug them in, and we can't go over that time. Now, they could do extra if they want on their own. So that really makes it a good balance, because I played DII and DI, and I've coached a lot at Division III level and Division II. And also we do mental health Mondays. It's every day. Oh, wow. But Coach Shield does that with our staffs, with our players, and we really care about our players. We do a lot for them. They do a lot for us. But I think, like you said, it's not just practice and games, it's the travel, it's the academics, it's the community service. We're really w- ranked one, I believe in the community service, so that's awesome. To compare DI, DII, DIII, we were NAIA. I know NAIA and junior college is a little different but I wanna speak on DIII, DII, and DI. They're both great. I think the best advice is go watch a game. If you live near Buffalo State, go watch Buffalo State. If you live go to UB, University of Buffalo, go watch Canisius, go watch Niagara. And I try to go to those games, too, because I learn things as well, and pick up a play or meet somebody or something like that. And I just love watching the game. Go to watch St. John's if you're from New York City, right? Go watch Colorado. My brother lives in Missouri. Go watch the game I think go and watch that level to really see if you could play at that level, right? So Division III I don't get caught up in the level so much. I coached in the Skyline Conference, I coached in the CUNY, and then I coached in the SUNYAC. The SUNYAC they could beat some of the Division II teams, yeah. It's changed a little bit now. Some of those teams changed moved out of the conference due to geographic and travel and cost. Division II is really good. Division III now is usually October to March, Matt, as yes. They do have some like they gave them 10 days now. Per se, I'm out of that a little bit, but I know they have 10 days, and most of them use it in the preseason, which I wish I had when I would coach Division III, because- Yeah I walk by the gym in September, I see a player maybe not holding their follow-through. Yeah. And I wanna stop them, and I really can't do that, right? Division II is basically September to May. You got the preseason, then you got your October to March, which is your 20 hours per week, not including travel, and then you have your postseason which is April, May. But June, July, August, Matt, they're pretty much off. They could go on vacation, they could work, they could be a normal person and have fun. They... The key is to come back in shape, right? And then obviously if you're a fall sport or something that's different, but for basketball, right? Division One now is a little bit all year round. Obviously you get a full scholarship. I think they give out 12 to 15. It's changed a little bit now. And then obviously the scholarships from D1, D2 and D3. But Division One I played at Sacred Heart. We were D2, and in my junior year they went Division One. And I got to play two years. I played against UNLV, Sean Marion, where you got your Vegas, where you get your hat. Oh, yeah. And they were really... It was a great experience. So I played two years, but it was really... It felt like all year round. Job we were down in the summertime. Yeah, I loved it, but it felt like a job, right? Work. It depends on what you're looking for, but you have to understand, double sessions, film, practice, right? I love Division Two of just because of the balance. And it's still commitment, it's still dedication, but and I like shorter practice, right? We had some long practices during the break when I played, and I try to, not to do that as much. I played for a legendary coach Dave Bike at Sacred Heart but I think also now t- we're gonna talk about the scholarships, Matt. So Division Three is mostly at academic scholarships, so really get your grades up. Hit the books. We have these four A's, academics, athletics, attendance, and attitude, and that's how we build our philosophy from playing time, so you could be a great person, great teammate, 4.0, you're there every day, but you can't make a layup. Yeah. All right? You can make a layup and you're a good teammate, but you're ineligible. You c- you can't play, right? So the four A's really s- Coach Rosati presented that to us and so Division Two- Most schools are partials, so academics financial aid, FAFSA. So get your FAFSA in, get your grades up get tutoring. Great thing about Roberts is we have free tutoring. We have a writing center. We have study halls. We have progress reports. We have academic support. Our compliance person, Paula, helps with that as well. So it's really good that we have that stuff in place, right? We have a learning center. So that's really... So y- if you need help get that stuff so you get your grades up. A lot of schools, the tests have gone the SATs and things like that have gone to the side a little bit for most places. But still get your grades up. Go to class. I look at the transcripts, Matt. I look at the attendance. K- a player's been late 25 times, that could be a r- red flag, right? Yeah. And you want to get to know the story about that and things like that. Division II, like I said, have partials. Some schools do have full scholarships. We have part-time coaches, Matt, so it becomes challenging for us, where some other schools might have a full-time assistant or a GA, right? And then Division I, I think they do have full scholarships. They did have some walk-ons. They changed the rules a little bit. Okay. I think the transfer portal and NIL has changed that a little bit, did I answer your question or? Yeah. That's perfect. Yeah. It's a lot of depth. I wanna go back and kinda hit on something you talked about with your mental health Mondays. Talk a little bit about why you started that and what that looks like. What are the young women in your program getting out of that mental health Monday? Yeah, great question. So right above my office, our office, we have a nurse, and we have a counseling center, and they're really good. And they could go up there, and then we have an app, too. If you're going to a test and you're feeling nervous, you could call somebody. I wish I had that, me too. Yeah. So it's real- it's really good. I think since COVID they talked about it a lot, right? And I did a lot of research on this, 'cause I didn't really know anxiety, depression, sports anxiety just mental health mindset s- negative self-talk, I'm really big into positive self-talk. I used to have to run a mile in six minutes just to try out for Sacred Heart, and I'm not a runner, Matt. And I used to say, "Kevin, you got this. Kevin, you got this. Kevin, you're not tired." But I was doing this, my brother was really into motivation stuff I my brother Michael. So I, I kinda just got it from him. We used to lift, Matt, 10 curls, and he would say, "One more." And I'm telling you, he would say one more 10 times. So we would have 20 reps. It's 18. One more. One..." And you're not thinking t- 10 more, you're thinking of one more, right? Yeah. So it's a mindset. It's actually called Mindful Mondays but it's the mental health. So Coach Shelor started it. We do a little prayer with it, and then she just did different things. But she wanted to start it. It was kinda her idea. But we thought we needed something just to talk about, 'cause a lot of people- it was out there, but I don't know if they were talking about it, right? Some people give players a mental health day, almost like a vacation, like in a workplace. We just try to connect with them, meet with them. We meet with them during the year just to see how they're doing, not just about basketball. "Hey, how's life? How's school? How can we help you?" but Coach Sheila really does something like breathing techniques, visualization things like that. So- it's a little bit of everything. Every week is different. She had them write things down on Post-Its, like negative thoughts, Matt, and then crumple them up and throw them out. Love it. Which was pretty cool. And if we don't do it on Monday, we might do it a different day. We try to do themes. We do trick shot Thursdays and open mic Mondays where people- Love it can talk about anything. So we really try and make it a safe space. I had a story a couple years a- my first year there, we had a player I won't say a name, but really good player, but she was struggling, and she opened up to myself and Coach Azadi. And I'm telling you, Matt, she, we cried, she cried, and I only knew her for a couple months. For the trust for her to tell us, right? And I'm telling you, after that, she was playing beautiful basketball, great basketball. So whatever was weighing on her. So I think talking about those things a- and sharing those things do help people. I have a psychology background that's my major, but I'm not a doctor, right? But as a coach, you gotta you're the bus driver, you're the, you sweep the court. Things like that. But I- Yeah I think it's, I think it's important, and I think since COVID, the stats, it went from 20 to 30% anxiety to it almost doubled and tripled, right? So- Yeah it's, it, I think it's real, and I think culture, your mental health, the standards. We coach, we try to be demanding but not demeaning. But I think, again, I think the mental health is really important, and not just for players. Coaches, families, parents. I always think, Matt, think about this. You play high school, you play travel ball, it's all year round. The parents are exhausted. Not for just the players. The players are the ones playing, but the parents are traveling. So I really appreciate the parents that go and travel and, but that's exhaust- I think, for people to do. So I think their mental health's important. But me I really try to take care of myself, Matt, now. I used to run on fumes, but I really try to take care of myself now, because if I'm in a good place, I think I can help the team and help the program. Yeah, absolutely. I went through that too. I had to lose weight. I had to get back on on a workout cycle, because when you're out recruiting, dinner might be a hot dog at a gas station and a bag of popcorn at the gym. Yeah. You do that, y- you do that for three, four months straight, and all of a sudden you're not healthy. You're physically not healthy and you're mentally not healthy. What I love about Mindful Mondays and the focus that you're putting into it is when you and I grew up, there was no, there wasn't even a conversation that the, that was- Reality. Th- depression wasn't anything that was real. Anxiety wasn't real. And I think the fact that your young people, your young women in your program, you're telling them, "Hey, we know this is hard. We know that you have to overcome some things. We know there's things going on in your life that maybe you're not able to tell us, or you don't feel comfortable telling us. We wanna give you some tools, number one, to deal with some of that. But number two, we wanna make sure you know that we care about you much more than just being an athlete." And I think the fact that you're making that a focus and it's important to you is huge. And we just... It needs to be a common part of our world Yeah, I agree. Coach Shields and Coach Adrien k- take the lead on it. Yes. I talk about it and I do brain breaks during finals and midterms. We try to just get them some snacks and things like that. Yeah. And now they do Sack does it now, too. They took they took the idea and ran with it and made it better. Yeah. So I think it's just a good thing. You get them, you get to see them during finals and midterms, and then sometimes they even work out, too, which is good to see. But just to give them some here's some water, here's some hummus," instead of eating pizza and wings every day, yeah. Yeah, I love it. Coach, this has been great. I you and I talk quite a bit and we text quite a bit, but I love talking hoops with you, and it's so great to see how passionate you are for these kids and for what you do, and that's what gets me excited about you every time I hear from you. Because- Thank you I know we got a guy in the world that cares about kids and cares about doing it right. And I love it when you're winning and because it's, all those things are coming together. Thanks. I lo- I love when we're winning, too, Matt, so my wife is happy, too. Matt, real quick to add on to that, 20 years ago when I started coaching college, right? Yeah. So I finish year 21 this year in college. That's great. 19, 19 as a women's head coach and two years as an assistant. I coached high school for a couple years, and I coached CYO. So I probably have about 30 years of experience even though I'm not that old. Yeah. But it, but 20 years ago, Matt, I was about X's and O's and winning. I really am. I was, too. I cared about the players. But now, I'll text them right now, I text... We had a player who was sick. I said, "How you feeling?" Yeah. I have another player that's home. I said, "How you doing?" just, hey, good luck on your test." The four seniors, we wrote them cards in graduation, our assistant coaches and us, and said congratulations and thanked them for everything. So I think just the relationship piece and that stuff, and then there's motivation, there's mental health, there's leadership, right? But I used to read books about e- every book I had e- early on was X's and O's and press break, and now it's it's like this one I'm reading Let the Team, Let the the Let Them Lead. That's a good one. It's a leadership book. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's a really good book about a hockey team. Just learning. Someone gave... Jimmy Johnson, he does some podcasts, too. I don't know if you know of me, he has a J-Mac story. Really good guy to connect with. But he g- he gave me that book as a gift, so I'm starting to read that. That's good. That's great. I wanna do a little rapid fire with you. I want, I wanna let our audience get to know you a little bit. Okay. Are you a music guy? I am. What's your- I used to DJ. I used to DJ. I had a feeling. I had a feeling you had some rhythm to you. No, I don't really. I can't dance or I wanted to be a rapper when I was younger, but I I was awful, so my friends used to make fun of me. What's your- what was your favorite group or band or singer growing up? You know what? So my nick- my DJ name was DJ One. Old, new, and everything. I played... That, that's why I came up with DJ One, but, Oh I wanted to be number one. I, again, I was into spinning and stuff. My brother had records and things like that, and then I bought CDs. Remember Sam Goody? I used to go to Sam Goody and buy- Yeah A ton of CDs just... And I'll give you a story on how I fell into DJ-ing, but I my brothers had restaurants, and my dad had a place by Yankee Stadium in the '50s called Clifford's. But we kinda got into just the restaurant business and like- Yeah I was serving tables when I was like 14 years old. We'd had, we were playing sports but doing just working. We got that in common. Yeah. I was serving and cooking at 14 too. Yeah. Blue collar stuff, yeah. Barbacking, waitering, yeah. Had many different jobs. My dad was a custodian the corners man. He was big on not cutting corners. But the music- to be hon- like, I listened to a little bit of everything now it's changed. I'm listening to highway, to country songs now. Yeah. But growing up it was probably the Beastie Boys Oh, yeah and House of Pain. But again, d- with the DJing I had to play so many different songs. Matt, funny story. My roommate Billy in college was a short, strong little hockey guy, and he was into Garth Brooks. And I was... I went to prep school, and on the vans they would be listening to Biggie Smalls and Notorious B.I.G., underground rap. He didn't even come out yet. I didn't even know who this guy was. And I was like- Ah, this is not..." At first I was like, "This is not good. This is terrible." And then I'm like, "This guy's good." I go to college. By our senior year I'm listening to Garth Brooks and my roommate's listening to Biggie Smalls. That's awesome But I- Yeah my brothers grew up with rock and roll, Stevie Nicks, Journey, my wife. So hon- my concert list is very I've s- I've seen Stevie Nicks, Bruno Mars Beastie Boys, House of Pain, Cypress Hill. I, we saw The Fugees at S- Sacred Heart had The Fugees. Oh, did you really? Yeah. They had them for senior- Oh, that's a great one they had them for senior grad senior weekend. It was, I couldn't believe it, that's great. So I would say old school hip-hop, but I I like... I really- You know, it's interesting. It's not like I used to buy CDs, but I liked that one song, I liked that one song. Yeah. So I started just buying singles, 'cause I'm like, "I don't wanna buy the whole album just to listen-" Yeah to one or two songs. But Journey Def Leppard things like that. So I could go on and on, but interesting story how I DJ, Matt. So we're in the Hamptons, a- and I was probably about 21, we're gonna say. All right? I might've been 20, but my brothers, they had a pool party, and the guy Mike was DJ-ing, this guy Mike, and he's really good. And he just had the mixer and the tables, and he goes, and goes, "Kev," I'm standing next to him, hanging out with him, and he goes, "Kev, can you take over for a few minutes?" I had no idea what what I was doing, but I knew music and I knew how to read people. My brothers were there. They're five, 10 years older than me. I... They love The Who. So if I'm playing Biggie Smalls, they're not gonna like it too much, right? He goes to the bathroom. They're all just hanging out, 30, 40 people really afternoon just chill. He comes back out, I got people dancing, jumping around. I'm playing- I'm playing House of Pain, Beastie Boys, and then I just started switching up. So I did it f- he let me go. I did it for half an hour, so I loved it. Then I go back to Sacred Heart, and the DJ, I think it might've been him, he used to work at our place, but they had it all set up. I didn't have to bring anything except for my CDs. When they started going to the computers- Yeah I kinda got out of it, right? But I should've stayed in the... It was kinda like a side thing, but I did it more for fun. So they called me up and they said, "Our DJ can't work this weekend. Will you come down?" I took the train from Sacred Heart, went... So it cost money. I went to Sam Goody. I spent $100, 'cause I... If someone asked me for a song, I used to not like the DJs when I asked them to play a song or, or- they said they didn't have it or they didn't wanna play it. I really took requests and I tried to play it at the appropriate time. But I, if you asked me for a song, Matt, I would wanna have it. So I went to Sam Goody, got 10 CDs of the newest stuff or popular things and they have it. And then I would get paid 150, so I probably broke even. But I loved it and I did that for a couple th- I did it couple times a year, and then I kinda started doing it, and then... But that's my- That's fun beginning. Yeah. I did a little bit of it in college, too, and I just had a blast. It's so much fun playing music and- what's your favorite songs or groups or...? I'm all over the place, too. I everybody you've listed I love. I'm a little bit more old school. I love The Beatles, I love The Eagles, and Huey Lewis and the News. I kinda grew up, that was, those were the three that I love, but I love everything. I love hip hop. I, there's... I'm not crazy about the new rap, but I love early hip hop and everything from about '75 to about '85- yeah '90 I'm pretty excited about. But yeah. Yeah I'm all over the place. It's- Kind of whatever my brain is feeling that day, I listen to I hear you. I like Drake but some of the new songs I don't really know- Yeah so I don't like him as much. But- Yeah I love Das EFX and like Scenario and the old schools, the Sugarhill Gang and stuff like that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Now you're talking my speed. Yeah. Yeah. But I also like the like Stevie Nicks and Journey and Def Leppard and- Yeah That, that stuff too. But again, my and I've been listening to the highway. There's a song called Ride Ride- Yeah by Lou Brien. I... Man, people should start listening to it just because it's basically like never give up. I go by this quote, never give up, can't fail. And what that means is can't fail things, like a lot of people say, "I can't do this. I can't do this," right? Yeah. Cross out the T and the comma and I can't and says I can. So it's can't never quit, can't fail. And then this song is Ride by Lou Brien and s- some other guy. And they're it was, it's... I just started listening to it, but it's on my Sirius on my car but it's basically talking about adversity and like not giving up- and fighting through and keep riding kind of thing. Yeah. My wife's a huge country fan, so I'm sure it'll be on, on my... I'll hear it. We listen to the highway a lot, oh, yeah. Coach, this has been a joy, man. It's so good to get to know you. It's hard not looking at you and not thinking about Chris Mullin. Do you get the Chris Mullin doppelganger a lot? Yeah. I'm gonna give you a quick story. You know me with the stories. So can you see me okay, Matt? Yeah, I see you. Yeah. Great. So I'm walking into c- BJ's in New Y- in New York City by Christ the King. This is like 20 some years ago. And when I shaved my sides- Yeah Chris Mullin was a lefty about 6'7". I'm 6'5". I actually know his brother, Terence Mullin. I went to Chris Mullin camp. But I get it sometimes depending on who it is. And, but I'm walking by and these three guys are looking at me like, I'm like, I, like I told them beat me up and I'm like, I'm just walking forward. And then they go, "Hey, yo." They go, "Hey, yo." And I look back. I'm like... And they're, "Are you Chris Mullin?" I was like, I just started laughing. I said, "No, but I know who he is." And I said, "Thanks for the compliment," and I kept walking. You guys sound like you're from the same borough too. You got the same accent. Oh, yeah, he's from Brooklyn. He's from Brooklyn, I'm from Queens, so- yeah it's yeah- That's great we sound alike. For anybody that's enjoyed this, come back on Monday. We're gonna, we're gonna dive into recruiting with Coach and get some advice from him for you families and coaches out there and kids out there that are trying to get to that next level. But thanks for doing this, Coach. It was a fun conversation. Oh, this is awesome. Thanks for having me on, Matt, and we could talk for hours. And thanks for listening everybody. And they could always message me, Matt, if they wanna reach out. Coach Clifford I'll just give you my my Twitter is kclifford123, and I could help you throughout the process. I just love impacting people and helping people. I love basketball. I've been playing since I was six years old, Matt. I'm actually going to play I played in a league last night, and I still try to play and but it's all about the relationships and having fun with people and and having passion for- you definitely have that. And definitely connect with Coach on Twitter. You'll be glad you did. You'll be glad having a friend like this in your life. So thanks, Coach. Oh, thanks Matt. Appreciate it What a fun conversation with Coach Kevin Clifford. He just sounds like New York, doesn't he? You can hear immediately how passionate he is about basketball, relationships, and helping young people improve. I loved his stories, especially when he talked about coaching future NBA great Ron Artest, or Metta World Peace, when Coach was just 15 years old. Thanks, Coach Clifford, for your authenticity and just being you. Make sure you come back for part two, because we're diving into recruiting, scholarships, division two basketball in that second part. Coach dropped some very important stats and analytics in part two and as always, you can find more coaching and recruiting resources, blogs, and podcast episodes at coachmattrogers.com. Until next time, stay focused on what you can control, stay humble, and keep chasing significance.