Kelsey Conley: Dog Grooming Insights from a Certified Master

If you’re new to dog grooming, this episode is for you! Hannah has been lucky enough to find not just a good dog groomer, but a national certified MASTER groomer who Otto sees every couple months for his haircut - Kelsey Conley.

In this episode, Kelsey provides her expert insights on:

• What it takes to become a high-quality dog groomer
• How she makes dogs feel at ease throughout the grooming experience
• When and how to introduce your dog to grooming
• Best practices for maintaining grooming at home

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Transcript

Welcome back to the subwoofer. It's me, Hannah, and I'm so glad you're back for another episode. If you're new to dog grooming like me, this episode is for you. I started taking auto to a groomer because he has little hairs that grow out from his nose in front of his eyes, and I don't trust myself to cut them without poking him in the face. But before him, I rarely took any of my dogs to the groomer. It was maybe a once or twice a year thing, just to get a top notch bath and brush. In my search for a good groomer, I happened to stumble upon one of the absolute best and one of the few national certified master groomers in the state, Kelsey Conley. I knew I wanted to go to Kelsey because she does one on one appointments with her clients, which makes things so much easier for a dog like Otto, who sometimes has big feelings about other dogs. Kelsey has made each of our grooming experiences so positive, and even though Otto's haircuts are pretty simple, her skills are obvious. He always looks like a polished, distinguished little gentleman when he leaves her salon. Not to mention the other impressive cuts I've seen pictures of on her Instagram channel. She can handle everything from a quick trim to a show quality cut on any breed you throw at her, and she's dedicated to making the process fun and comfortable for every dog she works with. Kelsey has some great insights for you about how to set your dog up for grooming success tools every dog parent should have at home, and more. Let's dive in. Today I have with me Kelsey Conley. She is Otto's groomer here in town and I'm so, so excited to talk to her about all things dog grooming. This is a really unfamiliar topic for me. I know very little about it, and I feel like it's an extremely underrated field in the dog world. There's a lot that must go into doing this job, so I'm stoked to dive in. Here's a little bio on Kelsey. She has been obsessed with dogs her entire life. She started training, showing, and grooming her Springer spaniel through for age as a kid, which led her to her passion for grooming. Kelsey's career started in Wyoming in 2009. She received her national Certified Master Groomer certification in 2017, which had been a longtime dream for her to accomplish. In 2021, she began her journey into the dog show world with her first standard poodle, Wolfgang, who had met, and he is like, so he's striking, I love him, I she retired his dog show career in 2023 after achieving his AKC championship. I didn't do that. Yeah, yeah. Champion. And we're actually I'm considering bringing him back into the ring next year to go for his grand championship. That's amazing. Yeah. How cool. Kelsey's business, Groomed by Kelsey, launched in October 2020 as a mobile pet spot and has since relocated into a home based salon. Kelsey is a phenomenal groomer. I say this with confidence because not only does auto love her, but I was able to find her information through some at dog training who, if you all have been listening for a while, you should know who they are because I've interviewed all of them as well, and she's just got a really great way with getting dogs comfortable. I've seen her do it with auto, and it makes me so happy that we have you, and thank you for being here for this. Awesome. Well, I am excited to dive into the details on grooming, but before we get into that, I wanted to ask you personally. I know you've been in the dog world obviously for ages since you were a child, and you have tons of experience with showing and training as well as grooming. And I'm curious, what drew you into grooming specifically? Like, what about that really ignited spark? Well, I kind of naturally got into grooming because I was interested as a kid, and I was doing my dog when I was probably 13 years old. Wow. And so then from there, it just almost I got like a lucky position in a, in a shop to like learn. And it just I just stuck with it. Since I was 17 I've been professionally grooming. That's amazing. Yeah. So 15 years now. It's just crazy. The passion honestly, I would say developed over time as I got better at it and saw like, how good are you guys? Yeah, so it sounds weird, but yeah, well you are. I've seen pictures of your grooms on your Instagram and there are some seriously impressive things that you've done. Thank you. I shouldn't I should be posting more, but I mean it's it's amazing. I saw, um, some recent ones with Wolfgang where he just looks like, incredible and like a continental cut. And then you have, like, the Yellow Dionysia. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And then I saw one dog. Who did someone ask you to groom her? Like Elvira's dog? Oh, yes. It got drawn. I think it was names. Yeah. We do that for Halloween. Matched it pretty well. Yeah you do. But I was super impressed by that. It's amazing. So I feel like I mentioned already, I feel like dog grooming is a really underrated skill set. And I heard someone else mention that to one of the summit trainers. Angela was recently like, hey, he got a good groomer. Appreciate them. This is this is a difficult aspect of the industry. And so I'm super curious about what training you went through to become a certified master. Well, I mean, you can take a lot of a lot of routes to be a dog groomer. There's dog grooming schools that people go to, which I did not. I'm from small town Wyoming, where that's not the thing there. I had to move, but I just got into a shop as like an intern, basically, and just learned through my bosses and people I worked with. Later on, I started doing some seminars and continued education. And then you get your master groomer certification. That's. A series of tests, written tests and grooming tests. Practical tests, which includes a sporting which is, like all types of spaniels and stuff like that. Um, I tested with the cocker spaniel and then there's non-sporting, which is like poodles and business and the grooming world. Anyway, um, and then you test on two types of terriers, basically like a long legged terrier, a short leg interior. The difference would be, uh, like a Scottie versus a schnauzer. And so I did my testing on a West Highland terrier and a miniature schnauzer. That's the practical part. Yeah. Then you have, um, judges to go and critique it all, and then based on your score, either pass or you don't. Mhm. It took me two years to get it because I did all my I did my poodle testing the first year and then all my, all the rest of them, I did it the next year which I've heard that is kind of quick. A lot of people will do like one task at a time. Apparently it's a little overwhelming to do all of them at once. So, I mean, that's it sounds like a lot of work. It does because you're working with and I don't know what the stats are on this, but a really wide variety of code types. And then you're also working with a wide variety of temperaments, I would imagine, within those breeds. Right? Yeah. And a lot of the dogs, when dogs are used to occurring for so long that you're not dealing with a whole lot of temperament in that. Sure. But the breed the testing is based on, like hair types and the different patterns that you put on those types of dogs. Okay. Like this other the different haircut requirements and stuff like that. Yeah. The master certification. That's extra. Okay, technically to be a groomer, like it's not super regulated yet, so you don't have to have a certification or anything to be a dog groomer. Right? So that's just like for the people that really want to take. Their skills to the next level. We would do that, and I think there's probably only two. Two that I'm aware of, including myself here in Fort Collins. Well, yeah, there there could be there could be another, another one by now. But yeah, I mean, you'd probably know, right? Um, I'm also like populated estates with master groomers are Colorado, Texas and California, I think. Okay. That's just like so there aren't that many overall. Not really. I would be willing to bet Wyoming doesn't have any. Wow. Yeah. It's just those are the three states that seem to, in my in my experience and be the most advanced in, in the field. Those states are really trying to like push towards regulation and stuff like that, whereas other states are certainly still catching up. There's so much unregulated stuff that happens just within the animal industry in general. Completely. I mean, dog training is still unregulated as well and can call themselves a dog trainer, which sure is wild to me. Yes, that is how I feel about dog grooming too. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's crazy, I'm sure. I mean. I feel like it's more difficult than cutting human hair by far, by far, because you can't sit there and talk with your client. And how are you liking it? Are you feeling okay? The nervous you kind of can kind of can. Um, but yeah, it's just a difference. Whereas, you know, animals are known as like a property, right? Instead of a being. Right. Which I'm guessing is where that legislation. It's just a matter of those crazy. I mean, we are animals. Um, I am an animal. You're an animal. So. Yeah, that's that boggles my mind. But in any case, we're we're definitely going to come back to it. I want to talk more about that unregulated aspect of immigration. I'm speaking of that. What red flags should people look out for when they're trying to find a dog groomer? Slash what green flags? What should they definitely look for and groomer to have? Okay, I'm sure um good question. Um, I would say definitely, as far as red flags go, um, any facility that looks dirty or smells dirty. Especially just because Dawn is carrying things. And if it's not kept up with the cleanliness that those things can transfer just like out of that clinic or anywhere else. Right? So since anyone can call themselves a dog groomer, is there. I mean, she look for a certain number of years of experience or should you look for testimonials from clients? When I found you, that's what I looked at. Yeah. Like, okay, what do people make? And then your credentials were I was like, yes. Because you had all of this experience and qualification, not just in grooming, but I know that you have experience in training too. And I was like, this is good. I want someone who understands reinforcement and what that looks like. Yeah. So that's true. I always sell people to get recommendations. I want to talk a little bit about how dogs feel about grooming. Right. And I think it's pretty common for in any unfamiliar environment for a dog to be like, I don't know how I feel about this, especially if they're weird noises, clippers going or a blow dryer. How do you feel like most dogs react to grooming or being in a grooming environment at the very beginning, when they've never done it before? I still need a lot of dogs, even if they've done it a million times. Sometimes I just don't like getting baths right? So maybe they'll put their brakes on at the door a little bit. That's pretty normal as long as they're walking away happy in the end. A lot of dogs, when the mom is there, I always hear I don't have kids, but I've always heard it referred to similarly to like when you drop your kids off at daycare. Yeah, I was really surprised that for you to go, they don't want to see you go as soon as you're out the door. As soon as you're out, the door closes. They turn around like, okay, what are we doing? Yeah, Switzerland. What are we doing? You've told me about that with Otto before. Hell, yeah. I drop him off and he's like, oh no, no, no, are we? And then I leave and you're like, he decided everything was completely fine, right? It's not always like that. Like this guilt trip you're making feel that unless I'm doing something. Yes. Oh, that's definitely not the case. I always try to incorporate treats or something to better it, but also, a lot of dogs in situations like that are not willing. You know, this is it's just new. More often. You bring your dog for grooming or the earlier you start it, the better. So it's like if you're getting your dog around once every six weeks and from the start, then they just learn that that that's normal. That's just the thing that we do. Whereas if you only bring your dog every six months or once a year, then it's almost like a punishment that that's going on instead of just a thing that we do in our lives. Yeah. Well, that's kind of random there. Like, I don't expect this, you know, it never happens. Last time it happened, I hated it. That type of thing. Yeah. And a lot of people, they see their dogs not exactly wanting to go get groomed or, you know, and specifically enjoying that experience. And so for that reason, they hold off and they don't do it as often. But when in reality, if you just kept it up and you have the right groomer, that's an important part. It will get better. Absolutely. Yeah. I've been guilty of that before. Our old dog, Simcoe, he I mean, he didn't need extensive grooming, but he had hair, blinking on long wispy collinearity and like needed to be cleaned up in a slick sanitary area and his pores cleaned up. And because he used to go ice balls on his feet if I ever was too long, if it was snowy outside, they would just relax on his feet. I only met him when he was. He was nine when I met him. Does certainly makes it harder. Well, so yeah, he was already still alive and not really mature. I think that's super important. So how young is too young for grooming? At what age is a good age to start? I mean, generally I would say once we have our shots is like the sooner the better really. I always hear now that doodles are crazy and a lot of the people breeding those dogs are uneducated. And so I get a lot of doodles. Well not anymore now that I'm in my own practice. But when I was working at a busy salon, you would you would see a lot of doodles come in L.A. anywhere from six months to a year, and their breeder told them that they don't need a haircut for the first year. Which just sets them up for failure, you know? And yeah, I mean, if you let that go for a long time and I should ask you this at a different time. But I imagine that when you're grooming dogs that have hair growing in their ears and do not shed, you have to find some way to remove that. Yeah. Yeah, sure. Move your hair. Um, it's just kind of space. Dog by dog bases. Some dogs have hair in their ears that's really easy to pull out, and it's not a big deal. Or some dogs that, like, literally are growing bushes out of their ears and doesn't want to remove. You just kind of gotta go with the the dog's skin and what they can tolerate. But really, when you're waiting that long, the ear hairs almost, it's not even the not all in the big deal because it's way with certain breeds. If you wait that long, like they'll just totally get matted to their skin and that which becomes a big overall health issue, you know? And then you cut, you cut it off and their skin could look bruised or you can they can develop hematomas or something in our ears. So yeah. So what do you do like with a. Let's say someone comes in with a 4 or 5 month old doodle puppy. What do you use you to set that puppy up? To have some really positive first experience and get them in the right? Sure, I always try to make it fun. Kind of. I mean, you get you're too fun and they're not going to cooperate with you and listen to you. So you gotta find a good balance. Give them like some breaks in between. I always just introduce things pretty slow, especially in the blow dryer. And really with a lot of the things I do is communicated through body language. Okay, another thing with young puppies is for their first appointment. I always try to do like a introduction type of appointment where they just learn the bath and the blow dryer and do a like maybe some trimming around their eyes and their feet, get the toenails done and then save the big ear cup after they've had a little bit of experience. That usually helps kind of get them into it a little bit. I generally keep puppy haircuts on the longer side, okay, just because it's. And, you know, a little bit less invasive. You can do a lot more a bit with scissors, which are quiet. Yeah. I feel like, you know why this must be a long. Yeah. With with puppies and young dogs or even just dogs that aren't familiar with grooming. A lot of it is desensitizing them to touching them and touching their body and being handled around their feet or their face, especially getting used to it is a big, big component and all that. That just takes time and practice, you know, because I've done some desensitization with Otto, specifically after a first wave and you're like, okay, the fee bite does not like his feet being handled. So we went to work and did like some really step by step, like me touching his foot, treating him, then grabbing it, treating it. Is that the type of thing what you did? Yeah, exactly. And you did a great job too. Because then our next appointment, he was very much less less sensitive towards as he getting touched. I was so happy. We did good buddy. A lot of times I'll tell people if I get like a puppy that's really reactive and very like scared of. So the clever noises especially, I can even tell them to get like anything that vibrates in your house. Like maybe a toothbrush or something. An electric toothbrush. Yeah. And just get them used to that buzzing sound near them. Yeah. And I usually helps as well. Yeah, I think that's a great idea. I have a Dremel tool that we've not use. I thought put it to his nail. It does still make a noise and I did. I should do more of this, but I did a little bit of turning it on recently and delivering a treat and then turning it off. So I should do more of that. Do you feel like? Sounds are the biggest trigger for for dogs and grooming. Like that's what makes them. He's not really actually I think the the hardest part for dogs to get over is the handling. The handling. Yeah. Because a lot of a lot of our handling with our dogs is kind of like at home it's a little bit more relaxed. Whereas I'm putting a dog on a table and I have one sitting there and I've got my hands all over their feet, in their ears, in their face. And that's just not generally like it at home. That's really not what we do the same way. Yeah. Plus the we're strangers to the, the Lynx. Right as well. I feel like there's been a really positive focus on consent for being touched in the training that like I've done with Otto, I've. And that's what I've been encouraged by steps on other kids to do. Like, hey, pay attention to how the dog is responding to you, be watching them and then give them a break and see what they do. They move away. They're ready to be done. If they nudge you for some more. I get closer to like you that maybe they want some more. And so yeah, I feel like with grooming that's it's harder because that's what they're, they're being handled where they have handled something that makes a good dog groomer is is how they can read, read the dog, what their behaviors are and what they're showing me or how they're feeling, and kind of working with them on that. And maybe like, you know, something I really like to do is when we when doing something, especially with younger dogs or dogs that are not so familiar with the process is we'll, we'll finish something up. And then I really like to celebrate like we did it, um, and I that usually helps to help them realize that. Yeah, you know, they're doing good, and most of us want want to do good for you. What cues from a dog during grooming, which you take is like a definite like, okay, they really don't like this. And if I continue I'm I am I get nervous, am I get bitten? What does that look like? Um, a lot of it will be like back in the way. I mean, when they're on a growing deal, most of the time we'll have them secured somehow around the the neck or something. So you really have to be careful for their movements on the table. Make sure they're not doing anything. A lot of dogs, when they're uncomfortable with their nails, they'll start jumping around and stuff like that. Um. Like pulling. Yeah, he's done that with his feet with me at the beginning of counter conditioning to like, nope, don't touch that, don't like it, or like curling his lip at me, which is all gone away now, thankfully. But I love that you celebrate, like through little parties. That's adorable. Yeah, honestly, that's one of my favorite things about working on my own now, because I don't I don't not have to worry about other dogs in the salon at the time. It's just me and the other dogs. I do one on one appointments. Yes. Um, so we're able to get on the ground to kind of like, shake it out a little bit and have some fun. I love that, and, um, that's one of the fact that you do one on ones is one of the big reasons why we came to you in the first reality. Because Otto, who likes other dogs, but he can definitely be reactive at times. He's a little terrier who's frustrated when he can't just do whatever he wants all hours of the day. So seeing another dog in a crate and not be able to get to them can be frustrating for him. Or hitting me in a crate. Another dog. Being out having fun right? Can be frustrating. Always anxiety in the dark. That's waiting. Yeah. And a lot of times that'll that anxiety will like pass over on to the grooming. Once they're right, once they're done waiting. Well it's like being trigger stacked you know like yeah that makes perfect sense. So that I mean that's a huge help for him. Yeah. One on one is really nice for a variety of of different behaviors. Like for dogs that are kind of scared of the process in general, in my experience makes it worse to, you know, make them sit and wait in a kennel. That's that's true. That's another thing I wanted because he has this barrier frustrations. I don't want to take him somewhere where he's kind of in the line, and spending a good amount of time just waiting in an unfamiliar, enclosed space. Is that for him? Because I know him, that can be incredibly frustrating, right? I don't want that experience for him or for the person who's going after him. And I'm not trying to I'm not trying to say anything. They didn't necessarily about salons that do stags or women's like that because sometimes, sometimes do great. You know. Yeah. It's just dog dog basis like everything. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. This is a really good one. And we touched on a little bit with turning on a toothbrush or doing some counter conditioning and desensitization at home, but other than those things, what are some ways that dog parents can set their dogs up for successful grooming before they go and in between their appointments? Sure. I mean, practice with all types of tools is always going to be helpful in brushing especially. Yeah. You'd be surprised at how much better a dog that gets brushed at home will be okay for me than a dog that doesn't get brushed at home. And even, I mean, even if the dog doesn't have a lot of hair, it's it's almost it kind of imitates the, the handling a little bit. Yeah. So anything like that also a big part I think would be. Kind of getting your dog excited to go do it. And always acting like it's a really positive thing we're doing. And and another big part of her, a lot of people say like, oh, you saved my dog and you was so sad afterwards. What? Right. Actually, I don't think your dog was very sad. I think you were sad. And the way you were reacting to the haircut you picked up on her. Right? And that makes them sad because they're highly empathetic. Absolutely. So they can pick up on that kind of thing also lead to so much projecting onto our dog. Yes. I think we look at their emotions often in a more simple way than we should be looking at them, because they're really complex, nuanced creatures. And so, yeah, I agree with that. I talk sometimes with my stepson about that. He'll be like, Otto looks sad. Why do you think he looks sad while he's laying down with his with his head resting? I think that just means he's relentless. Yeah. And he's like, well. And he's kind of looking at me with his eyebrows, like, I think he's just noticing you. I don't think he's sad. That's worth talking about for sure. We project that. Yeah, absolutely. While I'm just the difference between like, oh my God, you're so beautiful until you look so silly, you know? And I know that dogs don't necessarily understand their words, but it's how you're how you're. Yeah, it's the energy, how they're being delivered to building the energy behind. Half the time when I sign up with something you shouldn't have, I'm like, what do you have? You're not supposed to have it. That helps me approach, but he's more amenable to me coming toward him. Rather than saying, you have they can pick up on that energy. Yeah, absolutely. Energy, in my opinion, is a very big part of dog grooming, just in handling and making them comfortable. Yeah. Every time I pick up order from you, look at you. You're so fluffy. You look so good. Like, are there people that don't. I can't imagine people not having that reaction because that's how I would feel. I mean, lately the that's generally the reaction I get. Yes. But there's there's always some people, you know, who wait too long and you have to take their dog to a really short. It's a shock and type of thing. They're like totally different where some breeds do look totally different. Yeah. And when they have a drastic haircut, which is kind of fun, you're like, okay, we got some style choices. Yeah. We can. It's fun when that's what you want, right? Right. But most of the time, people are not getting their dog groom because they like them nice and fluffy, right? But they don't realize if you want to keep it that way. I gotta get them groomed more often. Yes. I mean, it seems like I'm kind of targeting my answers towards like, doodles because, yeah, it seems to be the the broom. Is that a comet that comes up most often? You know, she's like that. They're everywhere. Do it everywhere. Everybody has one. And yeah, I can see that. So yeah, the key is people understanding if you want like a fluffy long cut. Right. You do have to maintain it. Yeah. Or if you only want to go to the groomer once every three months, you need to have a haircut that that works for that time frame, right. Rather than having a long cut and then waiting three months and then coming back. Right. And I just had the same thing. Right? And even I'm I tend to be a people pleaser. So if it's something I can brush out without hurting the dog, I'm usually going to do it right. But even though I'm not hurting the dog, a lot of dogs don't. They're still not gonna totally enjoy that. So it's like when you have tingles in your hair, right? That doesn't feel good. Yeah. So. I'm curious, is this just a curious question for me? How often do you groom your poodle? Okay. She. Well, I keep them very fluffy. Yes, I read. At least his legs are very fluffy. Yeah. Um. And his head is huge. And he gets bathing mode right every two weeks. Okay. Right. And and he gets mad. And in that time. Really? Yeah. I mean, I'm particular about his hair. I'm super picky because I can be. Yeah. So I don't like to really brushes hair when he's dirty. I don't want any breakage to happen. But, um, he's also a show dog. Yeah, right. He's not a pet dog, so it's when he is a pet, but. Right. But you. I mean, you do show him, and he's like an actual competitor, so. Yeah. Breakage. I didn't even think about that. Like, oh, yeah, that's a human hair thing, but. Right. But I'm familiar with. But so poodles are prone to breakage. I mean, any, any dog can be really brushing a lot and saying usually like double coat and dog or the time of coats at dull continuously grow as less as less common. Ah, okay. Yeah. No break. It's just some shedding. Oh, yeah. Um. Oh, it cures it. Okay. You'll have to remind me of the term last time we came to you for a room, you mentioned to me. So he has kind of a I don't know if you call it a combination code or what. There is some hairs are a little bit longer. And you mentioned, oh, like, these can actually be manually cleaned up. Right. Pulled out without a scissor. What is that that you were. So that's called hand stripping. Hand stripping or plucking and. John's was a wiry coat generally. It depends on how the winter is previously. So if if you shaved your wire haired dog, then typically it doesn't grow back the same way. So Larry Coats have multiple layers to it. And then when you're shaving it, you're shaving all the layers off at once. And you know, this, this first layer is going to grow a lot faster, whereas the other ones grow at a slower rate. Okay. So these guys, if you have a wire coated dog and you're not shaving it using their hair like really just easily plucked right out of the skin. Mhm. Which is so interesting. And you can show and he did like didn't react right. No no no no. And I don't have the exact like education to be able to tell you why. Right. But. Oh that's young. It's so interesting. I'd never heard of that before. And you bring up another good point. We were headed into some warm weather at the time that we're talking. I don't know when I'm going to put this episode up, but speaking of summer right now, and I know people with double coated dog, malamute, huskies, dogs with a ton of fur who are really tempted to shave them or something just in them. Cool, right? And this is something I don't know very much about, but can you speak a little bit to what coats are meant for that and what coats are not. Yeah of course. So I definitely understand the temptation. When I growing up we had a lab who shed like crazy and we would shave him in the summer because we're like, we're cooling him down and we're getting rid of this. The shedding. Yeah. When in reality, what we were doing was damaging his coat. And then it doesn't grow back. Right. And it's not the Coe isn't doing this job to protect the skin anymore. Right. So those double coat ingredients, those coats are actually designed to protect their skin and insulate the. So the hair is the sun instead of shining right onto their skin and heating them up, it's reflecting off of their hair. So it's assisting with keeping them global and keep them cooler in the summer. Keeping a warmer in the winter. God is that's yeah, that's really good to know. It seems counterintuitive, but it makes sense. Yeah, totally. So double coats not for shaving in general. Are there any other types of coats that you wouldn't recommend shaving? I mean, not really, but any any dog that has hair that's growing continuously, you can cut it off. Okay. But I mean, still you got to worry about how short you're taking it, how often they're outside underneath the direct sun because they can absolutely get it. Sunburn as well. Right. Which is not something that I, I haven't had dogs that. Well, that's not true. I did have a dog years ago who's a pet, and she definitely was prone to see sunburn. Yeah, I was for round her nose, stuff like that especially. Yeah, I have a hairless Chinese crested. And so in her first few years of life, while I was really trying to nail down how to take care of a hairless dog, she had some bouts of getting sunburn, too. Oh my goodness. Yeah. So what do you do for her? For her grooming since she's primarily hairless? She gets a bath. That's it. It's really easy and I don't have to do it too often. I actually got pretty lucky in my hairless. A lot of your dogs can have just like heroes. Cats can have, like, a lot of problems with acne and different things like that. Interesting. Yeah. So some of those dogs require super regular baths. Mhm. I just got lucky with mind where I can just kind of leave her. What are we. So do you for dogs that have and cats that are acne prone. Is there a different type of product you would wash them with. Oh there's every there's different products for everything. Wow. I have different shampoos that I like to use on like a dog's different shampoos on like warrior dogs or just for any type of reason. There's a there's a product out there for it. Wow. Just like with human, if I think of it as so simple. But there's always more to it when it comes to dogs than we think. So okay, there's a different product for every type of code. And yeah, acne, I didn't even. I didn't even think about that. Yeah, I don't think that could be happening. Blackheads is actually a lot of coated dogs would get. Can get blackheads. Yeah. A really common spot that I see all the time is like, right you the tail right in your face, probably like a few inches from the base of your tail. Who is is you super prone to blackheads on some dogs? I bet 50% of people listening to this will be like, hey, I'm a dog and they're going to go check. Yeah, I'm definitely gonna check. I wonder if that's just where like more oil tends to collect, right? It has going or just friction from I mean if they do sit on their tail that would make sense. Mhm. I'm sure that out there has a better answer for that. I know that that's super interesting and stuff we don't even think about. But yeah I mean they've got skin just like ours with paws. So I mean totally makes sense. That's crazy. You've so you've groomed cats as well. And I haven't talked with you as much about that. Yeah. I don't do as many cats anymore now that I'm working by myself. Right. There's so much easier when you have like a helper helping to hold on to them, I would imagine. Um, yeah. I think I've kind of gotten to the point. I used to love growing cats. Yeah, I loved it. I don't now, I'm not really sure, I don't know. It's not worth the the risk to me anymore. Okay. The risk of them tearing your face off. Yeah, it's raining outside. There's some food to react. And I'm pretty good at watching body language and understanding when they're going to. But, you know, even if they just scratch you, that could send you to the to the hospital. Oh, you know, I got scratched up by a cat real bad in my hand once, and it swelled up so bad I couldn't, like, work the next day. Oh, God, I, I can't imagine deserving cats. I've always had short haired cats like jinx that haven't really required a groom. But yeah, that's, in my opinion, really brave. Yeah, yeah, it's definitely, definitely need a helper. What are the general differences in your experience with grooming cats versus dogs or cats like way pickier, less amenable to coming in and getting used to it? Or do you have some cats that were, well, easy? I would say most cats are not fond of the process. Yeah. I mean, for any of it really. But but you do have some cats. I have, I have kept one cat client now that I'm on my own and she's just like a dog, it's the craziest thing. She'll just stand in the bathtub and everything. But like, even my own cat, you'll never allow me to do that. Oh, you'll be Connor way out of there. Oh, yeah. This one. It wouldn't be a no go for sure. And although personality wise, she does have a lot of dog like traits, but yeah, I don't think that would work out right. A lot of times I mean, those long eared casts, they could get matted really bad too. You have to shave it off and that's that's okay. But usually they're a lot of fun. They have they have like their women's. Right. So you can you can do a salon. And then when they're secluded they're you're you have to be done or else someone's going to get hurt in that situation. Yeah. But and then there's always ciliated grooming through that which is there if you actually absolutely have to. Right. Oh yeah. I used to groom out of that client and this time they had a sedated dog that came to me. I mean, cats, cats are one thing. Being sedated but sedated. Working on a sedated dog is. Pulls out your heart strings all the way. Sure it does. I'm sure it does. You feel like over sedation? I'm sure this depends on the dog and how much of a reaction they're having to the experience. But would you recommend some muzzle conditioning over sedation cases? I mean, honestly, for regular grooming, I really don't like any type of sedation. Those sedated dogs I was grooming, it was like you couldn't even touch them without a title situation. But now I have a lot of clients that'll be like, oh, I gave them their this pill or that pill. The try to calm them down. But I've actually noticed a lot of the times owners will they'll give their dog this calming then because they think it's gonna help relax on for it. Right. But the only time they're getting this calming man is when they go to the groomer. And so they're not used to that feeling. And so now they're having this weird feeling and they're in a weird place. And it really does almost makes it. They were so just way more stressed. Doesn't make sense. And they don't have agency in taking that pill like you're giving it to them. They don't have a choice. Then it and honestly just depends kind of salon to salon on how they how you work with muzzles or not. You know in a busy salon it might be a little bit more necessary to use them. But in my practice, where it's one on one, I try to do everything I can before that. But most of the time was the time the dogs realized. Once they're wearing it, they're like, oh, I can't do anything now. So I start to choke. They really do come down crazy. I just can't get it. Some of them, not all of them. That's another one. Fair share of dogs that are just too wild, right? Do you have some regular clients that just come in having condition their dog to a muzzle, and they have the muzzle on the whole time? Personally, no, not not now than in my current clients, but I've seen it before. So finally I want to talk about today brushing. I have the impression that a lot of people only have their dog's teeth brushed when they're going to a grooming appointment. Sure, growing up, the dog we had, that's what happened with her. Whenever she got her bath at Petco, she got her teeth brushed and we never brushed him out. So yeah, I feel like a lot of people don't realize the impact of neglecting dental health between grooming appointments. Sure. I mean, I can't really speak to that with that. Just as my own personal opinion on it. I think that if you're getting your dog's teeth brushed at your groomer, um, and you think you're doing a good job or getting brushed, I my comment back to that is what good would it do for your teeth? You're only brushing them once every six weeks. Or, you know, less often than that. Like it doesn't. Really do anything. Brides. You know, they get some practice in, but otherwise. Right. Especially recently, you're a lot warm people saying brushing regularly is becoming more of like a popular thing to do. Yeah. But I mean I have had I it's not something I do. I don't brush my dogs teeth okay. But they eat a lot of chews and a lot of different types of food that take care of themselves. Yeah, yeah, I give him a beef. She could choose, which I've heard because of the kind of spongy, abrasive texture can really help with that. Yeah. Different enzymes. I mean, I know when I was eating the raw diet, the enzymes in that raw meat, like really would eat away at the tartar and stuff in there. Nice. And so that's another good way to that's good. But yeah, I would say if you're worried about your dog's teeth, that's something you definitely you have to keep up on on your own. Because doing it once every six weeks, it's hardly matter. Exactly. Yeah. Maybe it'll make their breath fresh. Caffeine is right. And also with nail trimming. I know we've talked about like frequency for that before. And I try to get because auto come to you I think. Between the first two of Whitman's, it was like exactly two months. So I tried to give them to him a month after he's had his groom. So that way is getting his nails trimmed. Um, is that a standard frequency? Once a month is great. Um, nail trimming is really big for me. I think it's very important. Yeah, a lot of dogs don't. They'll naturally wear their nails down and they don't have to really worry about doing it regularly. But for those dogs that aren't wearing their nails down, it can cause so many issues in it. In dogs, when they're how overgrown toenails. Especially dogs who regularly have overgrown toenails. So what it does is the extra nail, right? It adds pressure onto the ground and then it's pushing up on their joints. Um, and so long term, it can cause their toes to start to deform, turn, turn out and stuff. And it just really ultimately causes a lot of arthritis and stuff in the paws. If they're constantly walking on those long toenails. That's good to know. Yeah, that's really good to know. For people that are not accustomed to how to properly trim their dog's nails, or for people that have dogs that have black nails where it's kind of hard to see. How are you entrenched? What do you recommend as an approach? Is there a general rule of thumb, or is there like a certain. Yeah. I mean, you can always bring bring your dog to the groomer or the vet to. I honestly kind of recommend going to the groomer for nails over the vet, because the groomers do it 20 times a day, every single day to do right. And it's cheaper. Yeah, but there are lots of ways for you to do it at home like they do make those the drum rolls made or the grinders made for dogs that are really lightweight. But in my experience, unless you have a little dog with easy nails, they don't do a whole lot. But if you're trimming at home, there's a lot of ways to judge what to do. In clear nails, you can see like a quick on the inside and that goes to a point. And so you can see, right. Basically you can see right through to where you can and can't cut. Um, dark nails are more of a challenge. But usually if you tip the paw upside down and you're working from the underside, if you just kind of whittle away at it, eventually you're going to see like a little black dot in the middle. It shows you where when the quick is almost about to start out. So you stop. Once you see that little dot in and you're good, okay. But even I mean, we don't like teeth clicking or dogs nails and cause caused trauma around getting our toenails cut. But if it happens, it's not. They're not going to bleed to death. He was about to toenail that bleeding, right? You can so easy to like figs at home was just cornstarch or something powdery like that. It just caught the one and they saw. That's good to know. I'm terrified of quaking my dogs. So. And all my dogs have had dogs. I was so with Otto. I like I take the tiniest bit off when I do trim his, because I know that this is safe, or sometimes I can see a little bit of the nail coming down farther at the end. Yeah, yeah. And that's what we're close legged to. Yeah. I mean, and and it's, there's nothing wrong with doing a little bit at a time more often. Yeah. Or Dogs Island, you know, dogs that don't like it, that don't like the whole display made out of cutting your nails. I just think when they're like laughs and stuff, just go in there and clip one nail and clip one nail. Every single line. There you go. And then, you know, and then you're taking that trauma away from people having to hold them down and wrestle them to get it, to get it done. Yeah. Are there any popular at home grooming tools? Like the firm, and there were certain types of brushes that you would recommend someone not using as DIY a friend. Well, there are a lot of grooming tools out there, like with blades on them, which aren't always a bad thing, but used in the wrong hands can be very dangerous. It's always advised to be very careful if you're ever using a comb to some type of tool with the blade on it and like undercoat, rakes and stuff like that will generally have the blade and it works really great. But if you don't. But if you're not being careful. Yeah, you could, you could easily like catch something in there. And its differentiator that came out was like such a huge popular thing when it first came out. Yeah, I remember it actually. It's good on some coats, but the majority of the coats don't handle that very well because it's really just whereas you have a blade where it has the top blade and then the bottom cutting blade, just like any other razor type of situation. What the Terminator is, is like just the top plate. And so it's literally a blade that you're just brushing your dog with. Yeah. So some coats, that's okay. But some coats, you're cutting it, you're cutting the corners. Right. And it damages it. Right. Breaking it. Yeah. It looks like you're doing a really good job do shedding that dog. But really it's like a really heinous pile of hair is hair that just got cut. Yeah, I don't hear this, but. Needed. Yeah. Um, I've seen a big trend, like on social media, all these advertisements for, like, the vacuum attachment. Yeah. Things. Yes. I'm skeptical. It just seems like something that was. Seems like an easy market thing to sell. Yeah, that's what that is. Yeah. I mean, it's like you remember that hair vacuum? Do you remember that? No, it's called the Cape. It's a joke or something, but human. But like, there's a vacuum that trimmed your hair in it, and I'm like, oh, gosh. Like, you could not pay me. No, you could not pay me to do that. No, it's it's kind of scary, though, honestly, when I talk about tools, the best tools out there, especially for dogs like a poodle or a doodle that have that type of coat that needs brushed out is just a slicker brush, like a regular pin brush and a comb. Okay, there are a lot of ways different brushing methods and stuff. I always recommend something called line brushing, and it's basically you just take like a line of hair at a time. You start from the bottom, go lining at a time, and then that's how you can really, like get through it easily, really thoroughly. Yeah. I think the number one grooming tool is just this, like a brush. Thanks. You know, nothing fancy as I mean to like, get them getting used to it and. Caitlyn ready for her the grooming of women's. So this brings me to the next thing. And this is going to bring us back to grooming being unregulated. All right. So I think it's tempting for a lot of people, especially people with dogs that might have a tough temperament or might be fearful or reactive to say, I'm just gonna learn how to do my dog myself, and I'm gonna do it at home. And I know people that do it. And then there are people who, you know, maybe they learn to groom their own dog at home. They decide, I should make this mess out of this. Then they start grooming. What's your take on all of them? Well, that's a Milton. It's a layered glass question. Yes. First of all, I don't necessarily see anything wrong with DIY. You know, it's as long as you're kind of researching what you're doing. I mean, it might not look good. Um, but it's definitely like a bonding activity between you and your dog, and that's always great. And in my eyes, like. I'm not going to take offense because you're throwing your dog at home. It's better that you're taking care of it in. The grooming is being done. Mhm. There are benefits to bringing your dog to the groomer as it like. I've caught a lot of dogs like with anal gland issues or different scary things like on their skin because they've got that blow dryer I can see down to the skin and it's just I've got more trained eyes to catch things. Yeah. So that's always definitely positive or stuff when it comes to like ear hair and stuff like that. I just have more training and experience for it. But yeah, I mean, definitely you can do it at home when it comes to DIY groomer and deciding they're going to make a business out of it. Mhm. That's a little bit scary mom. Just be on only if like if they're very don't have any other experience, any um type of formal training at all. Right. Just because there's really no one watching over over you. Mhm. I think it's really important as any groomer before you go out on your own to get experience with other people, to help guide you in the right direction and teach you what you're doing. Correct and what you're doing wrong. But with anything, it's all in a way. Dog ring is kind of an art form. So as long as you're making your client happy and you're being good to the dog, I guess I guess, but then you're not getting everything out of it if they're not fully trained. Say someone who's not as experienced, if they should be, is running a grooming business. And then. A client dog has a really bad experience. You can actually put a bad name to punkers in general, but you're gonna have that even try and curse, right? You hear horror stories often. It's just based on the person, right? Um, that's kind of goes with your how to find a Good drummer question and someone who just really, it's so important to find someone who really understands the dog and can tell it's what's best for them, whereas someone without education might not really know. The more I find out about dog behavior, dog training, and how dogs emotionally navigate the world, the more I come back to the idea that there is no one way writing work for all dogs with anything. Dogs are individuals. There are so many different things contributing to how they feel, their breed, how they were raised, the environment they're currently in, how they physically feel, their individual personnel, like there's so many elements. And so I feel like. It's good to encounter a glimmer that recognizes that. Yeah, you gotta have someone that can read the behaviors of your dog and and work accordingly instead of getting frustrated for slowing you down or something like that. Right? So if you do, you regularly extend appointment times as needed for dogs that are taking a little bit more time to cope with the process of grooming, like, is that something that you generally do? Yeah. I mean, every dog, every dog is kind of different. I've got an idea of how long anyone's gonna take me, but it's it's normal for something to go over time. And so I think it's kind of a good sign whenever like that last day that we came to you and you texted me and you're like, okay, I've got these dogs. They came in more matted than I anticipated. It's going to take me a little longer. That's the type of thing that, you know, I don't care if my appointment gets pushed back. I'm glad to hear it from you, because it tells me that you're making sure that the way that your dog clients are being groomed and being treated is, is the way they should be groomed and treated. Yeah. And that's just something that I've kind of developed on my own two years of grooming because, you know, in a busy salon, it's really common where a dog will show up for their appointment in the groomers behind, and that communication just isn't there. And then the dog ends up waiting an hour or two for you to get to it. And I feel like in a lot of cases, That's kind of really the type of thing that upsets the owner as well as can help stress out the dog. So I just like to for people to have the option that if they don't want to leave their dog sit around their way, I mean, they don't they don't have to. I think that that's huge for me. That's something I really appreciate about working with you as our groomer, because I can tell that you you're willing to implement that kind of flexibility to make sure everybody's taken care of. Right. And that matters. I think your the almost anything else come over of the dogs of my care is what's most important for sure. Yeah definitely. If you liked this episode, don't forget to share it with a friend and remember that the best way to motivate me to create more is to leave a five star review to make sure you don't miss the next one. Follow and subscribe to the subwoofer on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever else you're listening. If you have thoughts or questions about what we talked about in this episode, I would love to hear from you genuinely. Feel free to DM me on the social channels for this podcast, or send an email to the subwoofer podcast at gmail.com. We'll see you next time on the subwoofer.