The Clutter Conversations
A podcast for anyone who has ever dealt with clutter, personally or professionally.
The Clutter Conversations
Turning Teenage Chaos into Household Harmony
As a professional organizer since 2014, I reflect on the emotional connections tied to organization within families. We discuss the delicate balance between my love for order and the chaotic reality of my children's rooms. Recognizing individual differences in how people handle clutter is crucial, and we emphasize the importance of allowing children control over their own spaces—even if it turns their rooms into "junk drawers." This episode is a heartfelt exploration of understanding and respecting one's organizational needs while navigating a child's growth and ever-changing priorities.
In our final segments, we tackle effective communication and conflict resolution techniques to manage family dynamics. Jenna introduces the concept of a "safe word" for managing heated situations and the importance of setting a time frame for resolving issues. We also touch on the whimsical side of our discussions, like associating personality traits with dog breeds, which keeps our conversations genuine and relatable. Tune in for a blend of valuable insights and lighthearted moments that will resonate with anyone juggling clutter, conflict, and family life.
For more information or to schedule a FREE consult call with Katie, be sure to check out KCH Organizers!
Hi and welcome to the Clutter Conversations, a podcast for anyone who has ever dealt with clutter personally or professionally. Hey, today on the Clutter Conversations, I get to share a conversation with Jenna Renzo, a conflict coach and mediator. We talk about conflicts with teens, letting them learn to live their best lives and understand their own values and how to keep your cool when you're not feeling quite so cool.
Speaker 2:And don't forget, you're also going to learn whether or not Swedish alligators or crocodiles was it? Crocodiles make good ambassadors. Crawfish, crawfish. Okay, this is how we tease things on a podcast. This is how you get people to listen. What are they yammering about?
Speaker 1:I'm not yammering. I was being purposeful. You are yammering.
Speaker 2:Again, that's how you do it.
Speaker 1:Enjoy the podcast. Hey, jenna, I'm so glad to see your beautiful face today. Thank you for joining me on the Clutter Conversations. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3:I'm happy to be here. It's good to see you again too.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Jenna and I met at the NAPO 2024 Summit. Met at the NAPO 2024 Summit and she kind of blew me away, because NAPO Summit is actually for professional organizers, and so I thought I was going to be networking with a bunch of professional organizers and she sat across from or, more realistically, I sat across from her at a dinner one night and we were all just just chatting and she mentioned that she's not a professional organizer. So what are you? I?
Speaker 3:am a part of me and you know, I think. Attending the conference, I also realized that professional organizers do a level of coaching themselves.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, anytime I work with couples I'm like there's let me be that kind of go between, because it's about the stuff, and I definitely see that kind of they don't know how to interact when it has to do with the stuff that they share, or the stuff that they brought into a marriage, or the stuff that interests them that has nothing to do with what the other person in the relationship wants, likes, enjoys, looking at. Do you deal with that kind of a client when you talk about conflict coaching?
Speaker 3:I would probably say I deal with the conversation of clutter or responsibilities around the home, more so with parents and teens. So I've been working with parents and teens for going on four years now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can you tell us? I mean without, obviously, without spilling the beans about specific clients, but can you kind of paint us a picture about what that looks like? Because one of the reasons I started this podcast was that people that have ever professionally or personally dealt with clutter can understand the resources that are available to them, whether it's a professional organizer or a conflict coach, just like yourself. So can you kind of paint a picture about what that might look like for someone?
Speaker 3:So can you kind of paint a picture about what that might look like for?
Speaker 1:someone.
Speaker 3:What that like in terms of like the issues that they're dealing with. Yeah, yeah, when they get into those teen years, you know that parental authority that you have starts to dwindle a bit as they're exercising that independence and need for autonomy.
Speaker 1:Yes, no, tell me more.
Speaker 3:I am so glad Jason is on this call too, please tell us more, as we have a 12, 14 and 17 year old. So preach, yeah, and I mean even when you have really obedient kids. It just you know, and as you probably know with the ages, that your kids are there, are there's just a lot on their plate. Are there's just a lot on their plate, you know, with regards to school and homework and social aspects, world issues, social media, you know extracurricular activities, and so they're juggling all of these things on top of crazy hormones and brains are not yet fully developed and so emotions are, you know, felt on a much grander scale, and you know mom or dad saying I need you to unload the dishwasher.
Speaker 3:It's just not at the top of their list. No, no, you know. Have you been hiding in our?
Speaker 1:room or something, because, my God, you know. Okay, jenna, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Have you been hiding in our room or something? Because, my God.
Speaker 1:You know. Okay, jenna, I don't know if I told you when we were at Summit, but I homeschooled my kids for a little while. Did I tell you that? I think you did.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:In part of elementary school. So I did it for a total of five years for the three kids, and part of that was so I could instill the kind of routineness that life offers of grocery shopping and how to start a load of laundry and how to empty the dishwasher or load a dishwasher. I know for myself. I'm like I really don't want to be so particular that they think they're doing it wrong and then they'll pull back and they'll be like nope, I'm out. You know, if I can't do it right, I'm not going to do it at all.
Speaker 1:But, jason, we literally were just talking about this that the kids will like come home and they'll make dishes and they'll put them in the sink. And he's like oh, I just wish they would do their dishes. And I was like well, when you and I live by ourselves with emptiness, I'm like we get to enjoy a clean sink as much as we want. And I'm like but I think that life is going to kind of hit them in the face a little bit of these are the things that life expects of you, otherwise you're going to have bugs in your room, like you're going to have things that happen. Our oldest is going off to college and she wants to have a roommate and I'm like that roommate is going to put her in her place.
Speaker 1:If it's an unacceptable living situation, is that the kind of thing that families come to you? I mean, I see it as it's just, it's the family dynamic right now. I see the kids growing and I mean what they could do when they were 10 is different than what they can do and be expected of doing at 17. And is that, or are you talking like something that's a little more of an intense issue? I mean, can you clarify?
Speaker 1:a little bit.
Speaker 3:Well, I will say I have worked with a number of like parenting relationships where it's a single parent, sometimes the teen has been in trouble with the law, maybe they're on probation or they're at risk, and so a lot of times these teens are dealing with much bigger issues. But invariably the topic of chores always seems to enter the conversation, like almost 100% of the time, and I don't know if it's, you know, just because it's. It's just such an easy target, yeah, and oftentimes around chores, the word respect comes up because a parent feels like the child isn't respecting them if they're not doing the chores, or if the child doesn't see that the parent is, like, exhausted and needs help. Yeah, but then at the same time, a teen doesn't feel respected and so you start to get into okay, well, what does respect look like and sound like for you? Because that really helps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for you. That's like do you ask that question Because respect to Jason looks very different from not super different but looks different to my level of or vision of what respect looks like. It's not a leveled thing, like he wants more respect. I don't care about as much respect, it's not about that but do you find that everybody's definition of what that looks like is different?
Speaker 3:Yes, it can vary, and sometimes respect is just the top level. It may be the word that's thrown out there first, but sometimes, if you get underneath it, it might be, there might be an element of being seen. So it helps in the sense that it can broaden, you know, the parent and teens understanding of each other. Like, what does this mean for me? Like I'm not like, for from a parent's perspective, I'm not just asking you to do the dishes, like this has meaning for me. It might make me feel less stressed, it might make me feel supported, seen, and those are important elements. But at the same time too, you also get into that dynamic that, you know, is that the role? You know, is that the responsibility of the teen. And you know, at the same time, you know you want the teen to. You know love and respect the parent, and so it's just a balance.
Speaker 1:You know you're constantly kind of figuring out, yeah, and you know it's not like a box that we can check like a to-do list Make my teen respect me Check Like I like a good list. But it's not like that because it kind of it morphs and it's like this it depends on the situation and the perspective of the peoples that come to that relationship. You know, because it's the respect that I have for Jason is a different respect than what I have for my dad or my mom or my kids, and just being able to appreciate the individuality and the leaning into needing to not look for the same kind of respect, because for me, those acts of service you know my love language. I'm a professional organizer. I love to serve, I love to do for people and when I and I tell the kids, that is also how I receive love. But really, if they were to write me a poem or sing me a song, even better. If they were to sing me a song, oh, you can't wipe the smile from my face, I'm just like gushing, but it makes me feel seen, it makes me feel appreciated for the things that I do and I know that.
Speaker 1:I mean I tell clients. You know I've been a professional organizer since 2014 and you should see my 17-year-old's room. Oh, my goodness, I can't decide if I'm going to have an explicit tag on this podcast yet or not, but I would definitely have one inserted here for what kind of a show it looks like in her room, I mean. But she was also the three-year-old that would empty out her dresser and pile it in the middle of the floor during quiet time and try to reach the fan above, like her ceiling fan, so she could turn it on and off. She never quite made it, but like that kid's always reaching for the stars, thinking she can like pile clothes on the floor and make, you know, a real big difference. I don't know how that's working out. Well, I do know how that's working out for her. We're not going to get into that. That's a whole other conversation, jenna.
Speaker 3:I think you can appreciate this as a professional organizer Well, one also, you know, getting into values, because maybe the teen doesn't value the cleanliness the way that the parent does. They're individuals. They're not carbon copies of us, but also like just how our brain works. You know, some people operate fine within clutter and they and everything's out where they can see it and they and and that's the way they like it. And other people need, like a really clean desk in order to focus, and I think I told you this story before. But you know, my house is very organized, like my spices are like alphabetical.
Speaker 1:That's leveled up for me. I don't. I don't do that. My mom used to come in and alphabetize everything. I'm like what are you doing? Just lay off my spices? It's by size. For me it's by size and then frequency, but anyway, you know my children's rooms.
Speaker 3:You couldn't see the floor and I, you know, I would joke with my friends like how do they have the same DNA? But one day I saw my daughter's binder and it was insanely organized and she was a straight, a student. And I realized this is what she values and this is her priority. And the reality is I always say, with organization, maybe you would agree or disagree, but it's always good to have a junk drawer where life doesn't have to be perfect. And so if my whole entire house is organized and her binder is organized, then maybe her room is her junk drawer, just allowing her to have that space and sense of control over a space in the house. To, you know, do with what she wants, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's behind a door. It's really like you can close the junk drawer. If you can't close and open the junk drawer, okay, I'm like there's too much junk in your drawer. So let's clear it out a little bit. Like I call them multifunction drawers, I don't call them junk drawers. So because I mean when I go into a junk drawer what a client would typically call a junk drawer I find batteries and I know I'll find a bandaid, and I know I'll find paperclips and I know I'll find a chapstick and a hair tie. I know what's going to be pens. I know what's in that junk drawer. So to just give it order, so you know what you have is where my function comes in.
Speaker 1:And I do appreciate and I made a pretty conscious decision, maybe a year and a half ago, two years ago, maybe during gosh, maybe longer than that COVID kind of screwed things up for like timeline stuff, right. Longer than that COVID kind of screwed things up for like timeline stuff, right. But I made the conscious decision to not continually stress about the kids' rooms. It needs to not smell. I need to be able to have access to my dishes and bring the things that you take from my room back to me because I'm only as good as my tools are. I want them available. Your room can be a show, but I need my things. Because I have learned that I need my things, that I take care of them. I put them where I expect them to be, I know when I need to replace them and I have that. But in reality I didn't understand that about myself until I was close to 35 years old. That didn't resonate for me. It didn't make sense for me until I started my business and saw that kind of routineness in helping clients and a lot of my clientele has children and I've done so many tween rooms and one of my favorite things I like to say that we help bring their lives relevant. And so if your teenager is growing up and they are moving on in what is a natural progression of capabilities and you know friendships and all of that dynamic, you know a lot of the stuff on their plate that if you as the adult in the relationship are committed to keeping the stuffed animals and the baby book and the you know and the wall decor from when they were in the nursery, but they are itching to let go of those things as they're going from tween to teen. The toys are going away, the baby dolls are going away, and for parents it's really hard to let that go because it's like oh, oh, my goodness.
Speaker 1:I remember the feeling of my husband wanted to keep the baby's crib. All three of our kids slept in the same crib. He wanted to keep the crib and kind of refashion it. It was one of those like expandable creates a full size bed kind of thing. I had a hard time getting rid of the rocking chair, the glider that I spent countless hours nursing those babies in, and I remember both of the pieces of furniture when I knew that the kids weren't going to be using it anymore. We were out of the we're going to snuggle for reading bedtime books. We're not nursing anymore. The kids aren't sitting in the chair Like it's run its course in our lives and our house is small it's 1,285 square feet. With three kids, three dogs and a husband with many, many hobbies. It's a full-time job keeping up with all of that stuff. So to be able to recognize that's no longer relevant in our lives.
Speaker 1:Both the crib and the glider sat in our garage as like a not yet, we're not ready yet, and for both of us it took finding the right person that felt like this is a good opportunity. And actually, for the crib we had a garage sale and it just happened to be in the garage of. We had a garage sale and it just happened to be in the garage and this family that lived down the streets the girl comes in, waddling, all big and pregnant, and she's like, oh, we just have a bassinet. And like they were a young couple and they were with their parents. So I felt like they were I don't know. It just felt like an interesting living situation. And I had the crib and they said, oh, is that crib for sale? And it wasn't. And I was like this is the right person, this is it. And then I ended up offering them the glider and I delivered it to them because it just felt so good to find that right home for that thing and to bring this back to working with teens and all of that is that the kids we're doing a good job by them growing and developing into not needing dolls anymore.
Speaker 1:There's a time and a place, a season for that kind of life and what I encourage clients to do parents specifically, and not just parents, just people that struggle with the past is to appreciate the past. If it was a difficult past, appreciate that you've made it through and here you are. If it was a wonderful past, take those amazing memories and relationships and cherish them. That is how I try to help people work through their own internal conflict about letting go of some of those things.
Speaker 1:And as I see my 17-year-old specifically because I mean she graduates in a month and life is going to change for her and she graduates in a month she graduates in a month and life is going to change for her and the conversation that Jason and I had just this morning was trying to find a way that she can be as most adult as she can be at 18 years old years old that she can feel like she can leave the house and pay her bills and live and work and make friends and socialize all of that good stuff.
Speaker 1:It's very difficult to make that happen here, because when you talk about the different values she won for senior superlatives best note taker, just like your daughter her binder is highlighted. She will rewrite her notes so that they look uniform. Everything is color coded, but her room is ridiculous and I think of giving her that space and I don't know if the next iteration, her next year, is going to be here or if it's going to be somewhere else, because I think somewhere else she's going to be able to really hone in on those values If she appreciates that clear space. She's going to make that clear space, right. Yeah, she's going to make that clear space, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I mean, you never know what happens when they go outside the home and now they're living with other people with different styles and and suddenly every you know, maybe they, they, they liked the, you know they're, it's familiar for them to have a clean home. Yeah, so maybe they start to implement some of those things that seem so hard to get done at home, but it's in there and maybe their room's still a mess, but maybe they're like starting to do the dishes. They're kind of developing in that way. They're still developing their values and figuring out what they like and don't like and what works for them and doesn't work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is such a good reminder. I mean I know that I align very much with that train of thought, but I could definitely see when you listed off all of those things that they have on their plate. As a parent, I just get so sucked into our everyday that it's hard to remember that they have a lot on their plate. That's a really good reminder and I can imagine that your clients appreciate that kind of a reminder as well. I want to know because I mean, as parents we kind of lose our cool and you can't in your profession Can you give the parents out there that are struggling with this kind of conflict with their teens maybe one or two tips for keeping their cool when they are trying to help their kid be the best they can be? Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 3:You know, a lot of times this has worked a lot.
Speaker 3:Ironically it's so simple, but we will come up with a safe. And so when the parent and teen recognize that their emotions are getting high or that the conflict is getting high, if someone says that word, they you know, we've established what does that word mean. It means, and typically it means they need to take a time out, they need some space just to calm down, and then we get into. You know, some people need a few minutes, some people like they want to take care of it, but I'm not going to be okay unless I take care of it today and the other person's like well, I could, I need like tomorrow. And so we try to find that happy medium and help them communicate. I can, I can be ready and in an hour to talk about this, but we try to help them come back around. And a safe word is not a word or phrase. That is like something that you use all the time. It has to stand out so that it's kind of like a trigger for the brain, and parents and teens seem to like it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like the time sensitiveness of it, whether it's okay, go take your 15 minutes. If you say you need 15 minutes, have your 15 minutes. If you say I need an hour, if you say this feels really big and I need to talk about it in the morning, or whatever. That is that it's not just this open-endedness, because another one of our kids would be like flowers just to avoid a conversation.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And so I think, with practice and it's a level of respect, respecting the word, respecting the agreement that you have come together when something is feeling so, so big that you can recognize that tool that you have and have a respect for that. It's not an avoidance tactic, it is expressing of needs, it's saying I can only get this one word out and you have to know what that means. Okay, flowers, because I believe that we had flowers for our youngest when she was maybe five, but we found she was not quite ready for a code word for us.
Speaker 2:I'm over here thinking of all kinds of clever phrases that are just absolutely nonsensical, you know.
Speaker 1:Swedish alligators make great ambassadors.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, that Right. I'm thinking of all kinds of clever phrases that are just absolutely nonsensical. You know, swedish alligators make great ambassadors.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Right, that's how my brain works.
Speaker 1:But when you're in fight or flight, you're not going to think about Swedish ambassadors.
Speaker 2:Swedish alligators. Oh see God, dang it man.
Speaker 1:Or if you just throw out a bunch of random, nonsensical words together, like my family always did book tree, sky, man flower. I have no idea where it originated from, but it was like what are you even talking about? We would say book tree, sky man flower and I mean, if I said that to any of my family, they would repeat it right back to me, any of my family of origin. Anyway, jenna, you have been wonderful today. I'm like we've talked a little bit about chores and potentially collaborating on something there. So I'm hoping that there's more conversation to be had with you, because I love every minute that I spend talking with you and I hate that I have to wrap it up, but I do have to wrap it up. Can you please share with us how we can find you? If anybody wants to learn more about you and what you do as a resource, ask extra questions. How can they find you?
Speaker 3:So the name of my company is the orange principle and the website is the orangeprincipalcom. Principal is P-R-I-N-C-I-P-L-E, and that's probably the easiest place to find me and learn more about what I do.
Speaker 1:Awesome. I love that you are there to be a level, cool head when, within the family dynamic, that's a difficult thing for people to have, and so you are providing this wonderful service for people that man, I don't know, I'm like racking my brain about. Oh well, we could talk to her about that, let's okay, maybe Because, I mean, we have some big personalities in our house and we have some big opinions and I think that just a lot of people are dealing with that. So I really appreciate you sharing your expertise and a couple of quick little tips for people that find themselves losing their cool, and I can't wait until our next conversation. Me, too, I enjoyed it. Thank you for having me Okay. Thank you so much, jenna.
Speaker 2:I love talking to that girl, you know what's amazing, as a kind of fly on the wall, as the producer of the show and all that is.
Speaker 1:You're a loud fly.
Speaker 2:I get to interject every once in a while and I didn't know what to expect because I didn't know Jenna. But just listening, I picked up some, some little clues on how to deal with our children. Yeah.
Speaker 1:What I? I was actually curious about what your response was.
Speaker 2:Well, the first thing that I thought about was kind of what you brought up in the show about how they have their values and the example she gave of the kid's notebook. I mean, that's, that's our child. That, the example she gave of the kid's notebook. I mean that's, that's our child, that's, that's our eldest. I mean she's an immaculate note taker and a fantastic mind, but my God, it looks like somebody served a search warrant in her room. It looks terrible, but maybe that's something that that's more of a thing for me and you to let go as long as she brings out the goddamn dishes and puts them in the sink for you to do.
Speaker 1:I will come across this table with you, I know it is a multi-leveled process and that's like we have to look for progress where we can find progress. And I really like the idea of the safe word. I'd rather use it as like a code word, because safe word doesn't really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a whole other context everybody.
Speaker 1:But you know that's sorry about that, that's what happens when you have your husband in the conversation, it's fine. But no, I like the idea of a word or a phrase that, just even if we are the ones that use it, can kind of deescalate a situation just to get a pause, yeah, just to get some perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not devaluing what the other person has to say. You're not, you know, being disrespectful. This is a pre-agreed upon thing that just says, hey, we're all getting heated, let's chill out for a bit, and whether or not you come up with a, we're gonna do a one hour mark, or if it's just.
Speaker 1:I think it depends on the situation and what you feel like you need at that time, like it's okay for you to shout out the phrase, but you need to come back to the conversation. It's not a get out of jail free card. You have to be introspective enough to say I need 10 minutes of just quiet for a second.
Speaker 2:I'm going to need more than 10 minutes, just FYI.
Speaker 1:Or if we need to pick it up at another time. I think that that's really important and I think it's what is really important in terms of what Jenna was sharing with us. Is that our kids. Is really important in terms of what Jenna was sharing with us is that our kids teenagers are going through that exact same kind of development and they need to learn how to be introspective. So if they can shout out the phrase, then we say, okay, that's a, that's a stop point. Let's now ask them how long do you need? Because it's a time-sensitive thing. We're not just sweeping anything under the rug, we're not going to do that, but you know what this means, right? What?
Speaker 2:Come on, we've met. What does it mean, dear Family meeting?
Speaker 1:Oh no, I wish that family meetings were more fun. In my head, I think that they're gonna be so like productive, but they, they really are not. If anyone has any clues about that let's get jenna back on the horn, I know I just end up feeling like I'm just telling people what to do again and but I like anyway I there needs to be some kind of a communication with them about this code word while we are not in the heat of an argument.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, or a conflict, to be more accurate to the conversation today Indeed, indeed so.
Speaker 2:I did, you know, the other thing I thought about was podcast names, clutter conversations. Podcast name is clutter conversations, and when I think of clutter I think of all the crap that the kids leave on the counter, but there's mental clutter and, you know, relational clutter that is beneficial to organize. You know, I, I think it was an interesting guest that I don't know, like the whole thing, that she goes to a professional organizer conference and you're not a professional, I mean I, it was so hard for me not to unmute and be like so you crashed a party, basically, which I think is awesome. That's great.
Speaker 1:She paid for a ticket, so she didn't crash the party and actually I think it was quite brilliant of her to go to a place that she is the only standout.
Speaker 1:Like like that is is right. You know what I mean and I feel really fortunate that I sat across from her on a kind of a whim, um, a little impulsively. I sat across from her and we had a nice conversation and we picked it up the next day and then we picked it up the next day and we've had one other one since. That, like it was a good move on her part. I'm really excited that she's out there being a resource and I hope more organizers think in terms of conflict coaching. How can we level up? Because you know in our conversations privately she does refer to therapy and I think that that's the kind of resource I'm thinking of If I'm working in the hoarding arena, that there are times that I am not the right professional.
Speaker 2:And it's nice to know that there's the next level of that kind of help. Building out a network for your business is a great idea and a good example to other professional organizers that happen to be listening now, like oh hey, this is a good idea, a good example to to other professional organizers that happen to be listening now, like oh hey, that right, this is a good, it's a good idea yeah, hook up with jenna absolutely, she's a wonderful woman all right, so we are at the about the 45 minute mark ish at the moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what do we got uh coming up in the in the hopper in the future? You want to tease anything, or should? We just drop it and be done.
Speaker 1:No, I'm going to tease a couple of things.
Speaker 1:All right hit me, I am going to do a couple solo conversations. When I say solo, it's not just me in my head, because that's a weird podcast to just have silent air because I'm having a conversation in my head, but I am going to do a couple of solo episodes where I'm just kind of dropping some systems that really work for me and tenets that I really strongly believe in, such as slowing down. We have a couple other interviews coming up as well one with the Institute for Challenging Disorganization Board President Carolyn Caldwell. Board president Carolyn Caldwell. She's incredible and a wonderful resource in terms of the ADHD community and the chronically disorganized community. Other than that, I'm going to keep some things close to the vest and let you guys wait with bated breath, as I know you are.
Speaker 2:There you go. I'm looking forward to being a part of all this. This is not my wheelhouse, so it's cool to sort of be a fly on the wall.
Speaker 1:You are not a fly, so we're going to have to find a different animal because oh, it can't be crocodile, because Especially not Swedish ones. You don't talk as much as a husky does, but God, that's true. I feel like it's absolutely accurate. I feel like it's a dog breed of some kind. That you are, you're friendly, you're cute, like let's, let's, let's find your breed babe.
Speaker 2:Fair enough.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, thank you for joining us on the clutter conversations and this past conversation that we had with Jenna Renzo. I look forward to chatting with you guys again soon.
Speaker 2:Don't forget, can find Jenna at the orange principal dot com and it's not principal like at school. Principal, principal, principal. There you go.
Speaker 1:Why are you looking at me like that, god? This is where you hit the stop recording button.
Speaker 2:Oh, sometimes I keep stuff like this in because I bet you do it just humanizes you.
Speaker 1:I bet I'm, I'm, I am not human. I sound like a cyborg.
Speaker 2:I can change that for you if you'd like.
