The Clutter Conversations
A podcast for anyone who has ever dealt with clutter, personally or professionally.
The Clutter Conversations
Tackling Phone Distractions and Mental Clutter with Angie Hyche
Discover the secrets to decluttering your life, both physically and mentally, with Angie Hyche, an author, speaker, podcaster, and certified professional organizer. Join us as Angie opens up about her journey from organizing client homes to focusing on writing and podcasting, sharing her profound insights on clutter that extend well beyond just physical items. Angie emphasizes the often-overlooked aspects of mental and schedule clutter, guiding us on how to identify and manage "attention clutter" to help prioritize what truly matters.
We explore the love-hate relationship many of us have with our smartphones and their pervasive impact on our mental clarity and personal relationships. Uncover startling statistics about phone usage and learn about "phubbing," the act of snubbing someone with your phone. Angie offers practical tips like using airplane mode or focus settings to foster better connections and reduce mental distractions. By being mindful of our phone habits, we can significantly enhance our attention spans and improve our interactions with others.
Lastly, Angie shares her expertise on maximizing productivity through trusted systems. Drawing inspiration from David Allen's "open loops" idea, we discuss the benefits of using reminder apps, digital calendars, and brain dumps to manage our mental load effectively. Hear personal anecdotes and strategies for staying organized, even for those with ADHD, to regain control and focus on the present. Whether overwhelmed by physical clutter, mental distractions, or an overloaded schedule, Angie's practical advice offers valuable lessons to help you prioritize and simplify your life.
For more information or to schedule a FREE consult call with Katie, be sure to check out KCH Organizers!
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Clutter Conversations, a podcast for anybody who's ever dealt with clutter personally or professionally. I'm your host, katie Hochschauer. This episode has been in the works since April and I'm very excited to have a wonderful guest that I met at NAPO Summit 2024. It is a flurry of activity at this professional conference for organizers and productivity consultants, and I was so happy to connect with our guest, who Jason is going to share a little bit about. Take it away, my man.
Speaker 2:Oh, I get this. This is where I get to step in as the producer and be like OK movie phone.
Speaker 2:We've already full disclosure. We've already had the conversation with her. So the little part, the curtain for you, you know, see the great and powerful Oz. Sometimes we did the conversation and then do the intro stuff, you know, after the fact and put it before the show. It's a whole thing. But the cool thing is now I'm going to tell you about who Angie is, but I can picture her in my head and I know what she's about now. So it's it's pretty cool. So today we're going to have Angie Heitsch.
Speaker 2:She's an author, speaker, podcaster and certified professional organizer. She will write for anyone who feels overwhelmed with the clutter in their homes, their schedules or their minds. She spent seven years working in client homes to help them simplify and bring order to their lives. I believe she said she started in 2016 and has stopped working in homes in 2023 and really focused on the stuff I talked about earlier with the authoring and the podcasting and all that kind of good stuff. She believes that only by eliminating what doesn't matter can we prioritize what does matter. Her first book, unholy Mess what the Bible Says About Clutter, was published in December of 2020. Her second book, uncluttered Shaping your Heart and Home for what Matters Most a book of devotionals, with co-author Leanna George, was published in June of 24, just a few months ago. Yeah, two-time author, I dig it. Angie and Leanna also have a podcast with the same title that launched in January of 23. It's available on all of the major podcast platforms.
Speaker 2:She lives in East Tennessee, which I wish I had known that little factoid, because I would have asked her about East Tennessee, because Tennessee is really cool. When she's not organizing or writing, you'll find her on a hike or a bicycle trail with her husband, eric, visiting her adult daughters oh, what's that like? Adult kids. Someday, someday you see it's not a podcast without singing Her daughters, emma and Lydia oh good name reading or performing in community theater. You can learn more about Angie at the website shipshapesolutions. So, without further ado, here is our conversation with Angie Heitsch.
Speaker 1:Angie, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thanks for being here, Sure Katie. I am super excited to be here we are happy, happy to have you.
Speaker 1:I met Angie at the NAPO Summit in 2019, and we reconnected this past year at Summit 2024. And, Angie, tell us about the topic that you are excited to talk about, because you reached out to me and said I got something good for you. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I love, love, love to talk about clutter. It's like a love-hate relationship and I think there are so many conversations, clutter conversations. I love your podcast title.
Speaker 3:Um, and I think we are mostly tuned into the clutter of stuff and it is an issue, for sure, but I have found over the years that we tend to not think broadly enough about clutter, and I really believe it is anything that it distracts us from our priorities, and that can be things, but it can also be a lot of invisible things. They tend to be the ones I struggle with the most, the invisible ones.
Speaker 2:So clutter- in our schedule. Are we talking about ghosts? I just I want to make sure I'm on the same page. It's not no.
Speaker 1:Angie Jason.
Speaker 3:It may be something that haunts us, such as it could be like worries, regrets, whatever, but but the one we talk about. The least that I want to talk about today is the clutter in our minds, and that sounds kind of like a daunting topic, but again, I think we kind of avoid this one. I know I have, but those distractions have big time consequences. So that's what I would love to talk about today.
Speaker 1:Clutter in our minds.
Speaker 3:I call it attention clutter.
Speaker 1:I love that because it is super true. We just recorded a different episode and I set my timer so that I could not think about all the other things that are happening up in my brain hole and because sometimes it's a little bit like a vortex, so I call it my brain hole. And it's so true because we get pulled in so many different directions. Yes, we do. Parents I know I'm preaching to the choir here. I used to call it the mom tab, my mom computer that my attention was pulled in so many different directions. Yes, so what's your experience with that? Is this like a coaching that you do with people? I mean, how does this, how does this serve our audience?
Speaker 3:Well, you know, I worked with I started my organizing business in 2016, ship Shaped Solutions and working with clients in homes, primarily some businesses. And it's funny because I used to be pretty arrogant about how clutter-free I was. You know, I would come home to my home, where I have a home for everything. You know, I don't have things sitting around and think I don't have a clutter problem. And the more I studied about how clutter is more broad and kind of identified these other areas and thought, okay, no, I have a big time clutter problem and mine might even be more dangerous.
Speaker 3:But although I did work some with clients talking about schedule and attention, it is primarily something that I've addressed in my writing and my speaking and my podcasting. So, and I gave up working with clients I haven't worked with a client other than nonprofits that I helped for free occasionally, but the beginning of 2023. So my focus now is on content creation, speaking, writing and podcasting. And so and I always talk about the big three physical clutter, schedule clutter, attention, clutter and it's interesting, I just did a conference yesterday, a half-day conference at a church, and I talked about all three kinds and people were relating to all of them. But I think it's so easy for people to talk about the stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Relatively easy, yeah, relatively easy yeah.
Speaker 1:When it comes to the word clutter, but when you have to get down to like that really deep, that really deep soul searching work of talking about your thoughts.
Speaker 3:It's a little harder, so people are a little more reluctant and hesitant, and I get it. It's hard. I've had to do a lot of personal change relative to this topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I'm. I'm glad that you touched on that, because we this podcast, as much as it's called the clutter conversations. I have found that very naturally. It has embraced the fact that it's holistic in nature. It is not just about the stuff. Yes, the stuff is part of it, but there's also that, that the information that we take in and now what do we do with it, the projects that we take on, or the yeses that we give, when really we should be saying no to some things.
Speaker 1:That is because when I left Summit, I kind of accidentally signed up to be on the board of my chapter, not accidentally like I really wanted to do it. I wanted to show up, I wanted to include that. And when I accept something like that, I know I want to do a really good job. And when I think of that kind of clutter, of what am I spending my time doing? Where are those yeses going? Can I be an effective member of this board and of my chapter?
Speaker 1:The whole reason that I wanted to step up in the first place is there space in my world to be able to do that? And that has been because I'm also on the board for my daughter's choir and so I'm, when I come to having to figure out that balance, I have gotten much better at delegating or saying that is not something I can take on, Because us, as professional organizers very type A, very structure-minded we're like, well, yeah, we know we can do it, we are fully capable of doing it. Yes, yep, I got you, I'm a fixer, I'll do that, I'm a helper, I got that. And I have been able to minimize the amount of attention clutter by saying that is not something that I can bite off, but that's the whole point of a board position.
Speaker 1:We are a team, we are to work together. It's not that I have all the ideas and they just sure, katie, just you run with it. That would have been the past Katie, which was very cluttery in my brain and it was really hard to manage and led to all kinds of problems, not just on the outside and how I presented and showed up for people, but how I felt about my own ability to present and be as helpful as I wanted to be, as I knew I could be, because I was saying yes to too many things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up to show that how those two categories, they are tied so closely together. If our schedule is cluttered, our mind is cluttered, absolutely, and vice versa, and so sometimes working hard on one area benefits you and one that you wouldn't have thought you know. If, then, that the schedule and attention are very closely tied, so saying no and freeing up your schedule will allow your brain to have more space, you know, our brains were created to have ideas, not to hold them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's one of the things we'll talk about today. But yeah, so attention clutter is in a. It's my favorite because it gets talked about the least. In a way, it's my least favorite because it's the one that's the toughest for me personally, challenging-wise Can you kind of give an example of one way that you were attention cluttered and how you have. I can give you plenty of examples of ways that I still am. I'm making some progress.
Speaker 3:Yeah, aren't we all Okay, just in the last week let me think of all the examples. In the last week, I left my water bottle at this restaurant around the corner because I was thinking about too much. I asked my husband a question and, before he even finishes answering, I didn't remember what the question was because I was on my to-do list.
Speaker 2:Seriously, I think he and I should go get a beer.
Speaker 1:I feel seen right now.
Speaker 3:Thank you, angie, me too so much, oh, my goodness, leaving things, forgetting things, constantly late because I want to get one more thing accomplished, distracted, oh, at church today, during the sermon, I was like redoing my slides from yesterday's conference for the next time, because I thought of a way to make it just it is constant yeah, yeah plenty of examples interesting.
Speaker 1:So I've recently been diagnosed with ADHD, um which really all of the signs were pointing that way from very very young but, um, you know it is what it is. Here's my journey at 45. And that is one of those things that I have come to not just accept that that's how my brain is wired, but to acknowledge the outside sources of that. I actually just had a conversation with Jason the other day. We were in the car and he said something about I don't remember like exactly what it was, but it was.
Speaker 2:I'm sure it was brilliant.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, no, no, it wasn't on the brilliant side, it was. I feel like you've already told me this, but this past week was really difficult for me, and so some things went in one ear and out the other. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So some things went in one ear and out the other. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that kind of an appreciation of that is something that I do, but also letting the people that matter the most to me my family members, my clients, the people that I love and hold dear that I can communicate that to them. That says this is still something I'm working on. You know they come to us for all these solutions. I'm like I can only hold so much up here.
Speaker 1:Yes, if all of that stuff is overwhelming and I could easily recognize that, yep, this was a busy, busy week in my head, because extracurriculars had just started and you know I have personal goals and professional goals that I've been working on, and the board membership things, and so to be able to say this acknowledge this was a busy week, please just remind me, because now my brain is uncluttered, Now my attention is here and this is relevant right now. I talk a lot about relevancy with clients of, mostly with their stuff, but it does translate well into what do I actually, what information do I actually need to store and have access to, and what can I just let go for right now and know how to get back to that if I need to, like you, refreshing your slides. Are you going to be doing it at church? Probably not, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So I think we have. There are so many sources of things that clutter up our minds, but I want to for sure mention two. One you've already kind of touched on a little is how the schedule and the attention go right hand in hand, and I think that is huge and anything that you can do to say no to more, because when you say yes to something, you're saying no to something else and the no, that is usually the more important thing. But there's two other things that I think are huge, that a conversation on attention clutter would not be complete without mentioning these two things. What's that? Number one is your phone. Yeah, yeah, a blessing and a curse.
Speaker 1:Am I right?
Speaker 3:Yes, I have a devotion in my new book, or the first sentences I have a love-hate relationship with my phone. I am a digital girl, okay, everything is on my phone. I am a digital girl okay, everything is on my phone and it does wonderful things. However, my family begged me for years to break my addiction. I am not proud to say so. I have come a long way, but I mean it is a staggering problem and I know a lot of listeners have probably already like zoned out or they've thought oh yeah, I'm telling you those teenagers they're on their phone all the time and a lot of them are. But this is all ages, all genders, all demographics. It really is.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, it's kind of In some ways, I think you know I've read like our average attention span has gotten to this to the size of a goldfish. Now, apparently science shows that. But we've become so attuned to be able to get information exactly when we need it because we just go straight to our phones. And that's not always wrong, but all the times that we are just so tied to's, it's not, overall, been a healthy thing. I sometimes wish that had never been invented. Most of the time I'm thankful, but you know just a few stats that I never. I don't necessarily want to spend a lot of time on numbers, but I think it just blows me away to think and this is 2019, so it's way worse than this but the average smartphone user touches their phone 2,617 times a day. What, what? Yes, 2,617 a day. Is that like each?
Speaker 1:individual swipe counts as one tap A, tap a, swipe a, whatever, yeah, wow, I mean think of how many times you touch it when you are just doom scrolling and doom scrolling. There's got to be something good on here finally. No, yeah.
Speaker 3:And the way it affects our relationships. This right here 85% of smartphone users will check their device while speaking with friends and family and, whether or not you intend this to be true, when you are with someone and you are checking your phone unless it's an emergency, you are communicating to them that whatever is on this device is more important than you are.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And that's what I did to my husband and my kids, and that's it's horrible.
Speaker 2:I always like to have information, like verified, like more sources and what you just said. One of my favorite people on the planet, simon Sinek, was giving a talk and he said you'll notice that in my hand right now, I'm not looking at my phone, I'm not touching my phone other than just the grip I have on it. I have not referenced the screen. How important do you feel right now versus me putting it down, using my hands to express myself? What have you and it? I mean it's. It's such an unconscious thing for us to just have this stupid device in our hands. But I mean, I used to have a supervisor. I was in law enforcement and either a supervisor or the chief was the worst at it. He'd come in to give us a pep talk and he's got his damn phone in his hand the whole time and he's checking his phone. You're not pepping nothing up right now.
Speaker 2:So, that's what you just said. Could not ring more true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's true that we are distracted whether we're looking at it or not. Yeah, we just are if it's in our pockets, Because we're unconsciously thinking about oh, I wonder if any emails have come. I mean, it's just yeah.
Speaker 1:I had a, so have you heard of fubbing snubbing someone with your phone.
Speaker 3:Fubbing P-H-U-B-I-G.
Speaker 1:No, but it sounds like something I do Probably unintentionally.
Speaker 3:We all do it Okay.
Speaker 1:so oh, because it's you giving the attention to the phone instead of the person in front of you is fubbing. Yeah, you're snubbing them with your phone.
Speaker 3:Boy.
Speaker 1:I feel like I'm going to test my teens on this and be like hey guys, don't fub me.
Speaker 3:Don't even know what it sort of has that like when you get the F sound.
Speaker 1:So I went to dinner with a friend of mine a number of months ago and he pulled out his phone and he I just kind of gave him a minute, but I do remember thinking like, um, aren't we like having a dinner? Or something Like I thought we were catching up and you're on your phone. And he said to me I'm just putting it on airplane so that I can be present.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, yes, I do that now I'm like I just got chills thinking about it. And when I'm out, specifically out for a meal, where I want to be able to focus with that person, where I want to be able to focus with that person, I'm just going to stick my phone on airplane for a little bit and I think that's beautiful. I think that I mean, I've started really using the focus. I have an iPhone so I use focus a lot. So if I'm working out, that's a great example. I don't want to have distractions of, hey, what about this board thing? Hey, mom, I need this. Hey, kate, what's? Blah, blah, blah. I need 45 minutes. Can I just have 45 minutes please?
Speaker 1:And so when I put that I'm exercising, my phone automatically only allows me to see my Amazon Music and the fitness app, that's it. And I'm like sometimes I don't have the discipline to say I'm just not going to see it or it's like that's it and it will tell me later, while you were in fitness, these are the things that happened. So that's another little tool to be able to stay present in that moment and that also encourages that balance. You know I was talking a little bit earlier about I have some personal projects working on, and one of those things is making it to the gym, but making it to the gym not just showing up, but actually doing something. But if I'm constantly being bombarded by text and text and text and email and ding, ding, ding, what good is that Like, like it ends up just being a very unhappy experience.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, now two statements. This one I didn't write and I should have written down who to credit this one, but I think it's so true. One of the greatest compliments you can give one another is your undivided attention. Yeah, I love that. Think about how rare that is. And even if someone is not on? So let's say you're having a conversation with someone, even if they're not on their phone. You know what it feels like when you're talking to someone, especially if you're saying something you know it's really near and dear to your heart, but you, their eyes are glassed out, you know they're not there. It's really hurtful, you know. So it doesn't necessarily have to be phone, but in my first book, unholy Mess, what the Bible Says About Clutter, I wrote at the end of our lives. We may say, and we probably will, I wish I'd spent more time with family and friends, but I don't think anyone will ever say I wish I'd spent more time on my smartphone.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it is a part, it is a huge part of what we do now and I accept that. But we have to be able to limit. I had to do some really, really severe choices, changes in my actions, to be able to cut that addiction and it's still, it's still difficult.
Speaker 1:So it's funny when you think about how you spend your time and the things that you choose to spend your time on. No one ever says I really should spend more time on my phone. You know that is not when you no one. No one says I really should drink a fifth beer. Well, some people might, but that's not if you find yourself thinking I should probably cut back on X, y and Z. There's a reason that that's the case. Your body is telling you, your brain is telling you, everything is telling you. This is not a healthy choice for what you're doing with your time, your brain, your money. You know that's important. It's an important distinction.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and if you're willing to listen to them and and I dare, I challenge and dare anyone out there that to ask the most important people in your life am I paying attention to you? Do you feel like when you want to speak to me, do you feel like I, you know that you have my full attention.
Speaker 1:Hey, let's try that. Hey, jace, uh-oh.
Speaker 2:Are you sure? You won't go there If you think for a second I'm going to fall into this trap, it's a trap.
Speaker 1:No, just the fact that he thinks it's a trap tells me what the answer is. Oh, it's a trap. No, just the fact that he thinks it's a trap tells me what the answer is. I mean, so I am. My family has told me hey, you're on your phone a lot. Most of my work I do on my phone, not on the computer. I do a lot of stuff on my phone and that was an excuse. Jason and I just talked about excuses earlier today. That was an excuse about why I was on the phone earlier today. That was an excuse about why I was on the phone.
Speaker 1:But when we go places like camping, we go to this wonderful music festival that I just try to soak in every moment that I can at this place, because we only get to go once a year and I've loved it for my entire life. So I really try to embrace every single aspect of that and I will intentionally leave my phone events. I will take one picture and one video and put my freaking phone away. I only want it to be able to say, yep, I went to this concert at this live event and that's that. Yeah, I don't need to.
Speaker 1:I mean, I'm honestly never going to go back and look at these videos again. Let's be real. Let's be real people. Yeah, that I'm not. I'm not going to go back and do that and I have made a very conscious decision. Even though I'm really loving this moment, that I can remember this moment, it's almost like having to put it on the phone isn't trusting my own memory in those things, yeah, which it's cool to be able to just oh, that was a great concert, like. We just went to an amazing concert on Friday blew our minds and I just the feeling for me is enough.
Speaker 2:You know, I can't believe you're not going to say who it was Lindsey Stirling. If you've never seen Lindsey Stirling, she is an incredible violinist and you, my youngest daughter, thought that it was going to be like orchestral. Lindsey Stirling, she is an incredible violinist and my youngest daughter thought that it was going to be like orchestral. So she's also an amazing dancer. I don't know what kind of dance she is Ballerina.
Speaker 2:I would assume, but she literally played the violin whilst hanging from a hoop and spinning around Upside down, upside down. It was insane. That's great. I'll never forget that.
Speaker 1:No we'll never but those kinds of being present in that moment. You don't have to add it to the phone to have experienced it and in some ways that almost takes away from it. You know. You see the sea of people just recording, watching it through their lenses instead of enjoying that actual moment. You know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so here's one more, and this is kind of related to like organizing and productivity in a way. So have you heard of or read the book? It's David Allen, Getting Things Done. Oh, yes, Okay, Yep, so I am a big believer in this. One concept from that book changed my life completely and I talk about it all the time.
Speaker 3:So he says you know, our brains were made for having ideas, not holding them, and but we have so much in our minds that we're just trying to remember because we don't have a good system to get it out of our brain. So David Allen calls it putting open loops into trusted systems. And an open loop is any unfinished commitment and it could be anything from I got to stop on the way home at the grocery, I got to call my mom. I got to send this email to so-and-so. I need a gift for this party next weekend. Oh, I got to get concert tickets.
Speaker 3:And our brains are full of just spinning all these things, all these things. But a lot of these things that we're trying to hold in our brains are we could put those things into something that would allow us to not keep trying to hold on to it and those trusted systems. It can be a piece of paper, it can be your Google Calendar, the Reminders app on my phone so many different things when we're trying to hold on to all that. It's another reason that we can't be present in the moment, because we're afraid we're going to forget.
Speaker 3:There's so many of them.
Speaker 1:That's how Jason and I have conversations. I'm like I just have to tell you right now, or else I'm going to forget. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Having just talked about the phone, I feel maybe a smidge hypocritical. Talked about the phone, I feel this, uh, maybe a a smidge hypocritical, but that you were just talking about the reminders app throughout my day. Because I don't I don't carry a piece of paper and a pen or anything like that. I've got my phone. So if I have an idea of, oh shoot, I was supposed to do this thing at home, I am never and I mean never going to remember it. So if I don't tell the machine, hey, remind me to, you know, do x, y and z at 2130 this evening, I will set a specific time to be reminded in the moment and my ability to follow through on things that I have either said told somebody else this one that I will do something, or for the satisfaction of me seeing a job through that particular app, is wildly helpful.
Speaker 2:And I'm not a. I hate texting, so I'm not going to, I'm not going to open the app and push all the buttons. I hit Siri and I just say, hey, remind me to do this thing at this time, and that, and then I, literally 10 seconds later, have forgotten about it. But when the thing goes off, I give myself a little pat on the back. Good job, jason. You remembered to do this very small, very easy thing.
Speaker 3:Yes, it is so helpful. Yeah, I have reminders for, like, take my medicine. I have to do like I had to do. Remind me at a few minutes before this to get ready for this. I mean it's ridiculous, because I've got so many things swirling. So I use the technology a lot in that same way and a lot of people don't know that you can do things like remind me when I get home to do so-and-so and if you've got your home address in there, your GPS knows. Or remind me when I leave, or remind me every third Thursday I got to go deliver meals on wheels or whatever. So, even though we don't want to be tied to our phones too much, but using it like that is an excellent way to let that technology work for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's funny that this open loops into trusted systems. One of my takeaways from Summit was independently formed, really was just all of processing all of the information that you get at a conference like that, how to then use it, and I know you and I have spoken about that before that I wanted to make sure that my trusted systems I understood and that they were my first line of defense. So as.
Speaker 1:I would go up to my hotel room. I had blocked off time that I knew I was going to be by myself, nobody was going to be asking me for anything and I could process them into these trusted systems and I will disclaimer. I've never actually. I have the book, I can see it, it's right up there, but I've never actually read the book. So this feels very validating that this is exactly how I manage.
Speaker 1:My ADHD is that I have trusted systems that I go back to again and again and again. And I know if I have my you know, some people will use the unread. I see a lot of people using unread for their emails to remind them to go back to look at it. For me, I have too many unread emails because I'll look at a piece of junk mail and be like I don't have time, desire, want, whatever it is, to go in, unsubscribe and delete all of that. It's a whole process, right? So I get my you know be in my bonnet at some point and I do it, but that's why I have so many unread emails. So an unread email to me is not a reminder, a good enough reminder. It's not a trusted system. However, the remind me is. So if it pushes it up to the top of my list, I'd be like, oh, that's something that I need to do. There's a reason that it says remind me, because I went in there and I said, hey, don't forget to do that.
Speaker 1:I actually had a very, very busy early year, from January to March April, and I mean life was just so fast. We were working full time, I had a second semester senior in high school. It was off the rails. All of my volunteer work was coming to a head in April and May and it was just so much and I actually lost sight of my trusted system and I was speaking with my therapist about it and she's like when was the last time that you felt like you were back in control of life? And I was like, really, it was like December, and December was the time that I decided to try to move from a paper planner to online only. I had been working on this kind of hybrid calendar where my work stuff and my family stuff was on my Google calendar, but I still kept a paper calendar, because I'm a paper girl, I like to write things down. I like what it feels like. I'm a paper girl, I like to write things down. I like what it feels like.
Speaker 1:But I had thought that I had successfully transitioned to only being digital. And when she said, well, what were you doing differently to manage things? In December, and I was like gosh, I didn't buy that new planner because I said 2024 is the year it's going to happen. And I maintained for about three months and then I just like, it was like a whirlwind. It was almost scary to the point of I need to start therapy again because I could not manage my own life with those, with all of the things that were happening and I didn't have that trusted system. And now that I reintroduced my planner into my life, I'm using it a little bit differently because I also reevaluate relevancy for how things are operating and it's been very successful to welcome back my trusted system.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's not uncommon and usually very healthy to have a combination of a lot of different things as a part of your trusted system. And there's no right or wrong, really. You know, it's just like with everything we do with our clients organizing wise, it's what works for them, and when something works and then all of a sudden it starts not working, okay, stop back up. Why is it not working? That's a really good example. Okay, all right, let's readjust. It's a constant readjustment.
Speaker 1:I work a lot with ADHD clients, not just myself. We will overcomplicate things, and that is also then we're like well, I don't trust my system because I don't understand my own system, you know. But I do want to. I would love to have a whole conversation about that. We only have a few more minutes left of our time together and I'd love to know just a distilled takeaway that our listeners can take from your expertise. You have such wisdom to share and it's been great so far. So what can people you know be mulling over?
Speaker 3:Okay, I would say, do that dare. Ask your most significant people in your life if you're paying attention to them. And I would also say carve out 20-30 minutes for a brain dump. All the things you're trying to remember, just jot them. This is paper, pencil paper, not digital. Just get it out, get it out. Get it out, write it down as quickly as you can, try to get it all out, and then say, okay, now what am I going to put that in? Put this into action. You don't have to read the whole David Allen book. If all you did was this one principle, I didn't even read the whole book. But this one thing, it really does work. And the more you are able to unclutter, you're going to have so much freedom. We say at the end of every episode of our podcast an uncluttered life is an abundant life. We think abundance is more, more, more, more, more, more, more, more. And then we just are so cluttered we can't even enjoy. So get the clutter out.
Speaker 1:That is so good. It's not just about your stuff, it's about everything in your life. Again, that holistic approach to balance and that abundance mindset that will serve you further on down the road than you can even imagine. But it doesn't mean more, yes, yeah. So I do want to ask you to please let my listeners know where we can find you online and tell them your podcast name, because she's got so much more good stuff to share with you guys.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my website is shipshapesolutions and we also. So Leanna George and I have a book and a podcast of the same title Uncluttered Shaping your Heart and Home for what Matters Most, and both are faith-based, so this is biblical principles and practical strategies. So we have a website for that unclutteredfaith. You can find out all about that. I love to talk clutter, so send me an email. Angie at shipshapesolutions. This has been awesome, katie.
Speaker 1:I am so grateful to you. It's always a pleasure talking with you, whether it's in person, over the phone or a Zoom call like we're having. Sorry, guys, you don't get to see her beautiful face, but I do. I can't wait until the next time I get to share a space with you though. Angie, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:All right, I'll talk to you later, okay, bye, bye.
Speaker 2:That was a great conversation. I really liked what she was talking about with the. What was the quote? The holding them in your head, or we're meant to have?
Speaker 1:ideas, there you go, not hold them, not hold them yeah.
Speaker 2:And I liked the idea of getting things out of your, like the brain dump she talked about.
Speaker 1:Like the brain dump. She talked about getting things out of really important you can, you know if it's a bunch of errands that you have to do, you can then outline how they get done. When they get done, what day it's going to happen if it's, you know, assessing your, your schedule. All of that stuff is so much easier to do when you can look at it and it's a very black and white way of yeah, it's a visual representation of what you want to accomplish.
Speaker 2:So, having that ability to see it on paper in front of you instead of oh wait, what was that thing? And you're going going through the mental Rolodex. That's certainly not the most efficient way of doing things and I'm not a paper person like you, but I know that if I have a lot of stuff I want to get done on a weekend, for example, I write everything down and that's all I do. I don't say, okay, from one to two, I'm going to do this, and from two to two 17, I'm going to do that Now that that might work for somebody else. All I know is, if I can look at it and see it, it's going to get done in those two days. However, I want to do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's. That's the way that you are wired.
Speaker 2:And yes, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:Um, I'm. There are some things that have to happen at a certain time, like kids get out of school at a certain time and you have to leave the house if you want to be there on time at a certain time or early, and then what do you do with that time in between? I love it when you are on the podcast and have things to say to our guests, because it just brings you into my world a little bit. It reminds me of me riding on the back of your motorcycle. It's like my favorite times, because you spent so many years on the back of or on a motorcycle for work and I never got to be a part of that world. And this is like you getting to be a little part of a part of my world.
Speaker 2:Where's that button to end the show here?
Speaker 1:it goes. It's not a. It's not a Katie podcast without a little bit of singing.
Speaker 2:Okay, all right, this doesn't have lyrics.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna make them, I'm gonna make them, I'm gonna make them, I'm gonna make them.
