Stories Sustain Us #19 – The Journey of a Monarch Advocate

In this conversation, Monika Maeckle shares her journey from being a first-generation American to becoming a passionate advocate for monarch butterflies and conservation. She discusses her immigrant background, childhood experiences, and the pivotal moments that led her to discover her love for nature and storytelling. Monika's narrative intertwines her personal life with her advocacy work, highlighting the importance of understanding migration, both in humans and in nature, and the interconnectedness of life. She also emphasizes the significance of community efforts in conservation, particularly through the Mayor's Monarch Pledge in San Antonio. In this conversation, Monika Maeckle discusses her extensive work in pollinator habitat initiatives, the evolution of the Monarch Festival, and the intricate natural history of the monarch butterfly migration. She emphasizes the importance of community engagement, the interplay of science and politics in conservation efforts, and the critical role of the Texas funnel as a migration pathway. Maeckle also highlights the need for planting native plants to support pollinators and shares her vision for a hopeful future that embraces change and interconnectedness in ecosystems.

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Transcript

Steven (00:01)
Welcome back to Stories Sustain Us, where we dive deep into the lives and journeys of those working to make a positive impact on our world. Today's inspiring guest is Monika Maeckle. Monika's life story is rooted in her experiences as an immigrant and her profound love for nature, a passion sparked by childhood days spent outdoors, which has evolved into a lifelong dedication to conservation. In this episode,

Monika shares her transformative journey into the world of monarch butterflies, a path that began with a simple fascination and grew into a full-fledged mission. She'll take us through the art and science of tagging these butterflies, the thrill of the annual monarch migration, and the urgent need to protect these delicate pollinators. From her blog, Texas Butterfly Ranch, to the Mayor's Monarch Pledge in San Antonio.

Monika has found ways to make conservation accessible and meaningful for her community. Monika's story highlights the interconnectedness of life on earth and shows us that something as small as planting a garden can help preserve the fragile web of life we all rely on. Let me tell you bit more about Monika before we jump into her story. Monika Maeckle is a long time journalist and nature writer based in San Antonio, Texas. Her first book,

The Monarch Migration, Its Rise and Fall was published in 2024. And our next book, which is Plants with Purpose, 25 Plants that Multitask in Warm Climates, that comes out next spring in May of 2025. Monika graduated from the University of Texas at Austin with an American Studies degree, hook 'em horns, and Monika applies a holistic lens to all her endeavors.

For years, she has worked to raise awareness of monarch butterflies, pollinators, native plants, and the ecosystems that sustain us all. She's a master gardener, monarch butterfly tagger, recovering beekeeper, and a curious student of nature who loves the whole life cycle. With a long career in media and marketing, including stints in Central America and New York City, Monika has a national following for her website, the Texas Butterfly Ranch.

She founded San Antonio's Monarch Butterfly and Pollinator Festival in 2016 and co-founded with her husband Robert Rivard San Antonio's independent nonprofit news site, The Rivard Report in 2012. The site became the San Antonio Report in 2018 and Monika continues to serve as a contributor covering urban nature. There's so much more to Monika's story, but it's best if I let her tell you.

So join Monika and me as we explore the power of storytelling and environmental advocacy, the beauty of monarch butterflies as ambassadors for ecological awareness, and the resilience needed to foster hope and drive change. This is an episode you won't want to miss. So let's get started here on Stories Sustain Us, where we are inspiring action through the power of storytelling.

Steven Schauer (03:11)
Monika welcome to Story Sustain Us. How are you doing?

Monika Maeckle (03:15)
Alright, how about you Steven?

Steven Schauer (03:17)
I'm doing well. It's good to see you. It's been a while. So it's always nice talking with you. Hope you're doing well back in Texas.

Monika Maeckle (03:26)
Surviving the heat, we finally got a break this week. been a long time coming.

Steven Schauer (03:31)
Yeah. well, thank you so much for taking time for joining me. I can't wait to get to talking about your book. It's a great read, by the way. I'm about halfway through it. is absolutely, I love nonfiction and this is such a beautifully written book. It just pulls you in. It's not just like facts and figures. It's really a story and it's so colorful and it's so...

I'm loving it. So I can't wait to talk to you about it here in a few minutes, but let's talk about you first. What's your story? Monika, tell me a little bit about where you grew up and how you got to be who you are today.

Monika Maeckle (04:01)
you

grew up in Dallas, in the Dallas area, outside Dallas in the suburb of Richardson. And I think one of the defining traits of my upbringing is I'm a first generation American. So my parents came over from Germany in 1953 after World War II. And the plan was my father who had a very difficult childhood, father who was not the nicest guy to him.

Steven Schauer (04:29)
Hmm.

Monika Maeckle (04:42)
He wanted to prove that he was a good man. And so he said, you know, they were going to my mother and he were going to come make a million bucks. And then I think his plan was to go wave it in my grandfather's face and say, see, I'm actually a guy. But they came over and my brother and I were born here. And as I say in my book, and I think, you know, I'm completely transparent about how this colors my point of view that, you know, migrating is very hard. Migration is a very difficult thing. And

Steven Schauer (04:52)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (05:09)
creatures migrate because they have to or they feel compelled to. But it is very, very difficult and challenging. And so when my parents got here and everything was so hospitable, you know, my father was a tradesman, a carpenter, had a building company, built custom homes in the Dallas area. My brother and I were born here. Everything they needed was here, welcoming community, good job, receptive economy. And so why would they go back? I mean, why would they return after having left everything they know and loved when everything was going so well?

Steven Schauer (05:09)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (05:39)
So that really colors my point of view about monarch butterflies as well as like, as the climate's changing and the environment's changing, why would a creature undertake this arduous, often fatal journey if everything they need is available locally? So anyway, I grew up as a child of German immigrants. We were kind of like a very nuclear family. It was not cool to be German in Dallas, Texas in the 60s.

Steven Schauer (05:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, I was going to ask you about that dig a little bit deeper. there's I'm assuming there was some post World War II hangover. So yeah, tell me about that. Just the difficulty of being a German immigrant.

Monika Maeckle (06:11)
you

So I mean, our family really stayed to itself. We had a small community of other German immigrants and there were poker parties and umpamussik and I learned German. visited my, I met my grandparents for the first time. I guess I was eight months old, then the one time I remember I was like eight. And so there was always a sort of distant family that we didn't know.

And also we didn't have a support group of family. Like I had like two cousins in the whole world that I knew I had one aunt. And so it was a very nuclear family, very tight. And I kind of, I think I've continued that tradition with my own family. We're a very tight family, which you know, is a pretty good thing. I'm proud of everyone in my family, but I think it does shape you and makes you sort of independent in a way that maybe other situations don't. So anyway, I went to the University of Texas.

Steven Schauer (06:46)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (07:15)
First person in my family to get a college education. I got an American Studies degree starting out in journalism, but then realized I wasn't going to read a lot of books in journalism. So I wanted to be a journalist, but I took American Studies, which I think really also shaped my perspective, which is more of a kind of holistic view of the world, reading lots of stuff, drawing conclusions, critical thinking, all of that. And I found I just loved it. And it really, really shaped the way I view the world.

Steven Schauer (07:37)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (07:41)
And it's completely apparent in this book about looking at all these different elements using the monarch butterfly migration as a lens to examine sustainability, climate change, cartels, politics, everything. And I think it makes those issues accessible, but also educates people about the issue at hand, which is the decline of insects.

Steven Schauer (07:56)
Yeah.

Yeah. Can I, can I back you up in time a little bit? before you got to college, you know, you talked a little bit about, you know, there's this insatiable desire to read and, and, and, and learn and critical thinking. I'm assuming that that started at a younger age. That wasn't, you know, something that, that, you've just kind of discovered that you had an interest in a passion for in your college years. So, I is that, am I, am I telling the right story in my head that, that you were

You know, as a child, preteen, teenager, high schooler, you were already kind of going down that path of, you know, loving to read and loving to explore and learn and pick apart and understand the world around you. Is that kind of an accurate description of a younger you?

Monika Maeckle (08:54)
Yeah, I think I was very much nature focused, outdoor focused. I was kind of a tomboy. My father came from a farming family and so we always had gardening. We had a small farm as we called it, about 40 miles north of Dallas where we would go for the weekends. And my father had, I think like 30 cows for a while and we had all these adventures, know, ganging, frogs, fishing, hiking, exploring the ghosty, know, spook house next door.

But yeah, I was always outdoorsy and always really loved being outside. And one of my favorite things to do as a child, when I was like a teenager or a kid, to come up from school and have a snack and then go down to the creek. That's what we call it, going down to the creek. We'd be down at the creek from like four to six until dinner and then come home at dark. you know, just to have adventures. I'll never forget, there was this really cool crashed up, we called it the crashed up car and there was a car.

Steven Schauer (09:34)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (09:46)
was embedded in a hill down by the creek. And of course we figured that this is where Bonnie and Clyde were murdered or because there were bullet holes in the cold. We made up stories and we all made up stories. I always liked to write and I was looking back on that recently because I think the reason I like to write is because there was nobody, we didn't have a family narrative except that we came from Germany. And so I wanted to make sure that the narrative.

Steven Schauer (09:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (10:14)
was told. And I think that's sort of continued through my life. And my husband loves Winston Churchill. And I always love this quote that he keeps telling us like, history will be kind to me because I intend to write it. So, you know, if you want, if you want history to be kind, then write your own story and tell your own story and embrace the narrative. I guess I'm kind of doing that too.

Steven Schauer (10:27)
You

Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I appreciate that. that, thank you for giving me that insight too. mean, that ties back into the immigrant family and not, you know, leaving behind that story and, you know, coming here, you know, to the States with a blank slate, but there's positives and hardships associated with that as well. So I appreciate that insight about, you know.

your desire to create that narrative for your life and for your family. And I can see that thread knowing you now for many years, I can see that thread still in you today that that narrative is an important aspect of who you are. So that's a great tie and thank you for giving me that little insight into a younger you. And I think that's it sounds like that was very formative that shaped your life in many ways.

Monika Maeckle (11:26)
Yeah, it's funny when I went to UT, I always tell this story because when my son's, and like I know everybody I know who has kids that grow up and, okay, we're going to go look for, you you fly to different places and you tour the campuses and you're going to go on the tours and everything. It's like when I went, I applied to one school, UT Boston, I got in and when it was time to go to school, I just got in my car and I drove myself to Austin. I'd never been there before. My parents had no interest. They were very intimidated by college and the whole concept.

Steven Schauer (11:57)
sure.

Monika Maeckle (11:58)
I remember showing up at the dorm and like the RA, the residents said, okay, well, know, orientation is tomorrow. I was like, okay, what's that? I should just go down to this building. And I went to orientation and they told me all about the different classes and everything. And then while we were there, there were all these young women outside and they were saying, you need to pledge Greek. You need to go Greek. And I was like, Greek? I'm German. I didn't have any idea what they were talking about.

Steven Schauer (12:24)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (12:26)
about pledging to a sorority. I like, I didn't know what that was. I'd never heard of it. so, I mean, that just kind of gives you an insight into, I mean, you could say the ignorance or maybe, you know, a blessed, you know, blessed ignorance, I don't know, of, you know, what it's like to grow up in that situation. And I have great empathy for all the immigrants here in San Antonio that come here and have these challenges. And I know a good friend of mine at Trinity University is Kelly Lyons is in charge of a program

Steven Schauer (12:30)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (12:56)
that now mentors first generation Americans through college because when you go to college, there's just all this stuff that's new, you don't understand, and it allows you to sort of find your way. But I didn't have that, and so we figured it out, and I did fine. But I think it's funny hindsight.

Steven Schauer (13:12)
Yeah.

Now it's definitely an adventure. was, you know, my mother was the first person in my family to go to college, but I can relate to, you know, showing up to college as well, you know, 18 and just unclear as to some of the processes and some of the things that, you know, it was whole new world because it wasn't, you know, deeply embedded.

in my family history as well. And it was always, you know, I raised to like, you're going to go to college, higher education is important. And that was something that we were going to pursue. But there was a lot of it that was just new to my family and me in particular as well. So I can, I can relate to that story that you just shared about the just some of these things were brand new. didn't know what they were talking about. So I did not, I did not. I was a

Monika Maeckle (14:06)
Did you agree? Steven, that's what I want to know.

Steven Schauer (14:12)
soccer players. I, my, my tribe was on a, on the soccer field. So I had, I had my built in kind of a group to be associated with. yep. So you're moving through, tell me a little bit more about life in Austin in your college years and, and

Monika Maeckle (14:14)
You

There you go.

Yeah, it was the 70s in Austin. So like I try not to be that person. was like, I remember when I go to Austin now, but it was really magical armadillo, Antones. My best friend for life, Peggy Garvel kind of like knew the ropes and introduced me to all these, you know, music and the blues and whole group of friends. And that was very fun. When I graduated, I got a job at the Dallas Times Herald.

Steven Schauer (14:41)
Hahaha

Armadillo, yeah, yeah.

Monika Maeckle (15:04)
which is one of two newspapers in Dallas at the time. I met my husband there, Robert Rivard, and several years later we got married and we lived down in Central America for several years. He was a foreign correspondent for the Times Herald initially in the Newsweek and I was a freelance writer down there. So I lived in El Salvador and Costa Rica and we learned Spanish and traveled all over. We went to the Falklands War, we were in Nicaragua, we were in Honduras. And so that was a real adventure. And I really...

I kind of like adventure and I get bored easily. So that was really, really fun. When I look back on it now, I'm kind of shocked about it because if I had a daughter who did that, would be like, I'm not sure this is a good idea. And that's how my mom was. She was kind of like, whoa. But my father was like, you know, let her do her thing. And I was like, okay, cool. Thanks, dad. So yeah, we were there for four years. Then we moved to New York City. We had our first son in El Salvador. When I was in El Salvador, we had the baby in Dallas.

Steven Schauer (15:32)
Yeah.

you

Monika Maeckle (16:01)
And then we moved to New York City because Bob got a big promotion. I was chief of correspondence for Newsweek Magazine and we lived in New York for five years before coming to San Antonio in 1989. We've been here ever since. So, really wanted to get back to Texas. We had two sons by then and they were in daycare. I was working full time at a wire service and I would get on the bus in the morning, drop the kids off and then pick them up on the way home.

Steven Schauer (16:15)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (16:29)
and they started to have lovely caretakers, but they started to have these New York accents and see dog and talk and walk and no offense to anyone, but I was like, this is not happening. They're going to have Texas offense. And so I told my husband, it's my turn to drive and you know, we need to go back to Texas and get closer to my parents where they can enjoy their grandchildren and we can have some more support. So we made the decision to back here and Bob started working at the San Antonio light.

Steven Schauer (16:37)
You

Yeah.

Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (16:57)
newspaper which is now out business and eventually became the editor of the Express News here and you know I've had many jobs since then but that's how we ended up in San Antonio. I'm really glad we ended up here. I love Texas. I love the hill country. This is where my roots are and really happy to be home.

Steven Schauer (17:16)
Yeah. Well, tell me a little bit then as we're getting back into Texas and starting the tie in to your book, your passion for monarchs, I'm assuming then started in this 1990s era. I know you certainly as a child, you were already kind of down by the creek and playing with bugs and everything, but did your...

you know, interest in specifically in the monarch butterfly. Tell me a little bit about that story. You write about it. But how did that kind of come to be?

Monika Maeckle (17:53)
It was, it was the day. Yeah, it was definitely later. And, you know, I was a busy working mom. We were, we had two sons, my husband traveled a lot. I was working full time. I was always garden, a gardener, and always, you know, trying to get outside as much as possible, but I didn't have the time or the energy, you know, to really dig into the monarch thing until, you know, I was an empty nester and I had this

I had this incredible experience when I was in like 2004, our family, we had acquired a small piece of property on the Atlanta River and we built a house out there, brought water in and did all of that and enjoyed going out there on the weekends and stuff. And I have my friend from college, Peggy, her sister, Jenny Singleton, she had a ranch nearby in Menard, we were near Mason. And one weekend she invited us to come.

tag monarch butterflies on the roof. And I was like, what? And she goes, yeah, just come on out. It's this cool thing in October. I was like, okay. So we got in the car, we drove to Menar, which is like a three or 40 minute drive. And we were waiting for these butterflies to drop from the sky. She promised them when we got there, was like, where's all the butterflies? She said, just wait. So we waited and literally as the sun was setting, hundreds and hundreds of these monarch butterflies just dropped from the sky. And Jenny has been doing these,

Monarch Butterfly Weekends for years. She had these long PVC pipes with butterfly nets in them and the guys would like, know, swing way high into the trees to swoop, you know, 30 or 40 butterflies in one net, bring them to the ground and then everybody else would pitch in and put tags on them. And we'd even have so many that we'd have to put them in ice chests temporarily because we couldn't get to them quickly enough and then we would tag them, record the data, release them.

Steven Schauer (19:33)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (19:47)
And I was just like, I couldn't believe this was happening. I was like, how did I not know about this? I was just so enchanted that, know, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands probably of these butterflies were gathering and I had never heard of this and I didn't know anything about it. And so we left there that, that night and the next day, you know, Sunday, we to get back in the car, go back to work. And then Monday when I got to work, could not stop thinking of monarch butterflies. And I just started doing this deep dive.

know, researching Monarch butterfly migration, you know, what's that? And I dug in and I just couldn't stop. And the following year, after having read about it, I bought tags for Monarch Watch, which is a citizen science organization at the University of Kansas-St. Lawrence that oversees the Monarch butterfly citizen science tagging program, but you know, like 50, 100 tags from them. And I thought, you know, they've got to be here on our ranch. And so,

Steven Schauer (20:14)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (20:43)
One day in October, I got my kayak out and I set out to find them and I was just paddling along and found this place on the other side of the river. It was very similar to Jenny's setup where you have tall trees, kind of a limestone escarpment that generates heat in the evening. You've got a river for water, you've got flowers and nectar. was like, and I literally stepped out of my kayak when I stepped at this eruption of monarch butterflies and just flittering around.

other year, can't believe it. It was crazy. I, I, you know, I started tagging. I tagged like 25 butterflies in 15 minutes. I went back to the house, got another sheet of tags, got another 25 tags. And the next day I dragged my husband over there and we tagged another 50 butterflies. And it was just like, that was it. I was hooked. It was like this magical outing that I will never forget. And every year I was just there last weekend. I go back to that spot, which I call the Monarch spot and,

Steven Schauer (21:12)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (21:41)
check it. Unfortunately this year there was nothing there. It was really sad. monarch migration for our latitude is October 10th to 22nd and my birthday is October 13th. So typically I have birthday, Monika's monarch birthday party at the ranch and I invite people out and we go tag and like this year was the first year that it was incredibly disappointing in my memory. Like there were just a couple butterflies there. So.

Steven Schauer (21:45)
no. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (22:08)
You know, the weather's been very strange this year with the hot weather and the wet August and very hot weather north of here. It's just been very challenging. It'll be interesting to see how things shape up.

Steven Schauer (22:21)
Yeah. Well, thank you for telling me that story again. I read it in the book and your writing is so vivid. was there with you and just reading it and being familiar with that part of Texas, that Texas Hill Country area. For those who aren't familiar, the areas kind of northwest of San Antonio, west of Austin and that kind of

what's called the Hill Country area of Texas. Your writing is so, paint such a vivid picture. You know, I was there, you know, in the kayak with you going across the river, I could see it in my mind's eye. You just made it so, so vivid and with your storytelling that I can see it now in my mind, you know, where you are, even though I've never been there, I've been there with you and it's, it's...

sad to hear that this year's such a small showing of monarchs this year. you talk a lot about the different impacts of what kind of the monarch migration has been over the last 50 years since they were kind of their wintering.

Roost was discovered in Mexico, which by the way, you also painted so vividly. I'd seen that iconic picture before, but the way you told the story of how that iconic picture came to be, again, it's just such a beautiful writing. So do you want to, I don't want to take away from your story yet.

because I appreciate learning more about you, but we seem to be getting into a transition here more into the story of the monarch as well. So maybe you can weave, continue to weave your story in now with the story of the monarch and some of, of some of what you are sharing with us in your, in your book. So, where do you want to go next? Is there more to Monika's story or do you want to start transitioning into the monarch story?

Monika Maeckle (24:37)
I think they're very interwoven and like so many wonderful things in life, it was not something I planned to do. It was just something that happened and it was like, it's an opportunity that presented itself. And interestingly, right at that time when I kind of got seduced by Monarch butterflies, my job at Business Wire, the wire service where I work was changing. And there was this thing called the internet. Have you heard about it, Steven? And it was sort of really...

Steven Schauer (24:45)
Yeah.

I've looked into it. It might be something someday.

Monika Maeckle (25:05)
It was intruding on the newspaper business. husband was a newspaper editor and the commercial wire sort of side work for business wire was very tied into the newspaper business because it was basically a way for companies to send press releases on the AP that then fed into the business sections of the newspaper on like sort of a sidebar wire. And as the internet

Steven Schauer (25:10)
Sure, sure.

Monika Maeckle (25:27)
came about, it was like, whoa, this is really going to change everything. And so I got a new job as vice president of new media at the company where I worked to of learn how this is going to impact and educate our clients about how to deal with press releases, what is a blog and all of that stuff. And I was assigned the task of creating the company blog. And I was like, OK. And so I thought, you know what? I'm just going to start a blog for myself.

and I'm going to do it on butterflies. And I set up a blog called the Texas Butterfly Ranch on WordPress. And I was like, you know, I can do experiments over here. And if I script so well, you know, it's my thing, there's no risk. And so I would like do stuff on my blog, the Texas Butterfly Ranch, where I could apply to my business life. And so I was like, okay, cool, this is great. And so that's how the Texas Butterfly Ranch started, which is my website now that I use for all kinds of things. write, you know, about pollinator advocacy. We've had, you know, pollinator habitat.

program, did the Monarch Butterfly and Pollinator Festival here in San Antonio, but that's how that happens. I think that's really, you know, another metaphor, if you will, you know, to keep with butterfly language about how things just kind of come together and everything's interconnected. And I just find this theme in my life and my sons make fun of me because whenever they're going through a transition, say, you know, you're just morphing to the next stage or whatever, you know, so.

Steven Schauer (26:48)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (26:48)
I can take that and pretty much apply butterfly stuff to just about anything that comes up in life. So I think that's an important aspect. But I started writing about monarchs and pollinators and getting to know the scientists. And then we had the drought in 2011, which was, honestly, feels very familiar. I'm having a little deja vu with what's been going on this year. But that really set in motion all of the monarchs.

Steven Schauer (27:13)
Yeah, sure.

Monika Maeckle (27:16)
conservation advocacy that we're witnessing right now. And I go into that a lot in my book about, you know, we had this drought, and they compared it to the drought of the fifties, the following two years, we had the lowest count of migrating monarchs since records have been kept. of this country, know, Obama started a pollinator, a national pollinator strategy to save the bees and increase pollinator habitat and pollinator plants.

And one of the aspects of that that came about was the National Wildlife Federation started the Mayor's Monarch Pledge, which is a program basically focused on the I-35 corridor, which is the migratory flyway for many insects, creatures, wildlife, and went and approached cities along that corridor to get them to commit to pledging to plant, you know, to sort of change habitat for pollinators and favor pollinators. And they're like,

26 things on the list that you could do and to participate you to three things and to be leadership circle you did eight things. And so when they came and approached San Antonio I was very involved with that and you know, we're trying to get the mayor to sign the Mayor's Monarch Pledge, worked with the mayor for a while, Mayor Ivy Taylor. And ultimately San Antonio signed on and said they were gonna do all 26 things on the list. And it's like, whoa.

Steven Schauer (28:32)
Mm-hmm.

Monika Maeckle (28:40)
And the National Wildlife Federation was kind of taken aback by that because they didn't really think anybody would do that. But because of the Sanctuary River Authority, which Steven, you're very familiar with,

Steven Schauer (28:49)
Yeah, that's where we interacted I think the first time is during this time period because yeah, I was very involved in that mayor's monarch pledge as well because of the River Authority. So yeah, that's where our intersection, our integration started happening. Absolutely.

Monika Maeckle (29:07)
So 18 of the action items were already completed because of the riparian restoration to the San Antonio River Authority had undertaken. So there really weren't like, know, any more things to do. And so, you know, we were the first, the National Wildlife Federation had to have a conference call and say, Hey, we need a new category for somebody that will commit to do this. And, know, of San Antonio wanted to be the monarch capital city. And they were like, no, what if another city comes along and it's okay, fine, monarch champion. And so they created a new category.

Steven Schauer (29:34)
champions, yep.

Monika Maeckle (29:35)
Monarch Champion and San Antonio became the first Monarch Champion city and I that was in 2015 if I'm not mistaken. Yeah 2015. So then the following year we had you know we were looking at our obligations and one of the things on the list that we still had to do was to have a festival and so since I kind of you know had a lot to do with getting this status I felt obliged to sort of follow through on the pledge and I started

asking around town about, we really need to do a festival. He said, we do it. Talked to my friends at the Pearl, which is a really cool local development. Elizabeth Farsow and Romero Cavazos, and they're like, yeah, cool. So we ended up starting a festival that we did for, you we're still going on. It's not at the Pearl anymore, but for four years we did it at the Pearl every year. It was very successful and it led us to check that box. And later we also, you know, in 2018 we did a monarch

Steven Schauer (30:11)
Yep.

Monika Maeckle (30:32)
we did a pollinator habitat initiative because that was one of the items on the list that we had to do a local community pollinator habitat initiative. 2018 was San Antonio's 300th anniversary, so we launched an initiative to do what we call 300 for 300, 300 pollinator gardens for San Antonio's 300th birthday. And that, you know, that's still going on. We changed the name because at first it was just San Antonio, but they were like, you know, who cares? I don't care where they do it as long as they do pollinator habitat. So now we've got like yards and

you know, Ontario and go to Lahara register and you have 1160 or so. And that's on my website at the Texas Butterfly Ranch. Anybody can go and register for that and get on the map. so yeah, that's how the journeys progress. And like in the course of all of this, you know, I've been writing about, you know, on my website, pollinator advocacy, when we did our festival, we were inviting scientists to come to San Antonio and participate in the festival. got to know these scientists through the festival in person and also just

Steven Schauer (31:07)
That's wonderful.

Monika Maeckle (31:30)
you know, calling him every year for like, what's going on with the monarch migration? And so I had a lot of sources. I had a lot of information. I had a lot of personal experience and I thought I always wanted to write a book. And so I ended up putting all that into the book, The Monarch Butterfly Migration It's Rise and Fall.

Steven Schauer (31:34)
Yeah.

And I always appreciated the way you approach the festivals as well. I again had an opportunity to interact with you over many years when I was there and supported all the amazing things that you were doing with the festival. The interconnectivity of it as well when you talk about the scientists and the people, you were really...

In the spirit of the monarch migration, you were bringing in speakers from Mexico, the United States, Canada. mean, you were, were, you were mapping, not just, for people to understand this magical migration of these insects. you know, literally you were, you were also then doing that with your festival by tying it into this international field. It just wasn't a San Antonio centric thing or United States centric thing. was, you know, this.

really international approach that is mimicking and is certainly significant and important to the migration itself of the monarch. So I always appreciated that global approach that you took to creating this festival and bringing in these really incredible guests and speakers. I'm glad, having been in Antonio for a while, I'm glad to hear that it's still going on. mean, that's, it was such a fun educational.

and engaging activities, so I'm glad that it's still happening.

Monika Maeckle (33:16)
Well, that in so last year was the first year in 2023, I handed the festival over to my collaborator, Ashley Bird, a bloomer, and she has taken on the festival and it was it's been at Braggenridge Park the last two years and it has morphed to the next stage. I mean, it's a very different festival than it was when I was doing it. Totally fine with that. I mean, I think everything has to evolve and change and adapt to whatever the facing moment is. But the festival is much more of

Steven Schauer (33:26)
good. Yeah.

Sure.

Monika Maeckle (33:45)
children and family oriented than it was in the past. you know, it'll be interesting to see how it continues to evolve and I'm really proud to see it continue its life in a new way.

Steven Schauer (33:56)
Yeah, well, I'm glad it's still going on. And yeah, Ashley was always a great collaborator and someone to work with as well. So I'm glad to see that it's continuing on and how it will evolve as they said, this kind of life, life evolves. So Monika, let's talk a little bit about the book here. I appreciate you kind of getting us the history of how you came to the book. And obviously, we want people to go buy it. And so we can't.

I don't want to tell every story that's in the book, but tell me a little bit about the book itself and some of the stories that are in it to kind of tease people to get interested to go get it. And I'm going to keep singing its praises because it's just an enthralling read. But tell us a little bit about what's in it and what folks can anticipate getting their hands on when they get it.

Monika Maeckle (34:54)
think, I mean it's basically a natural history of the monarch butterfly migration from 1976 to the present. And 1976 is where I start because that's when National Geographic, the cover of National Geographic featured monarch butterflies on the cover and literally put monarch butterflies on the coffee tables of America for the first time. And I really believe that that was sort of the start of our love affair with monarch butterflies. I mean everybody...

sees butterflies in their yard and there's different ones. But really the monarch is the one, it's the most recognizable, it's the most charismatic and it has this incredible story of this multi-generation migration from Canada to Mexico. So yeah, the photo of Catalina Trillin, that cover is very captivating and the story of her and the teen that was with her and how that all came about is part of the story.

in the book and starts with that and then kind of goes from there to backtracks to, you know, some scientific rivalries between Dr. Fred Urquhart, who started the tagging program back in the 50s, and Dr. Lincoln Brower, who passed away recently and, you know, sort of challenged some of the conventional wisdoms. And, you know, again, you see this in science, you see it everywhere, but there was a generational shift going on in science where

Dr. Fred Urquhart, who was the scientist leading the initiative to figure out where the butterflies go every year. mean, until 1976, they didn't know where the butterflies went. They didn't know, you know, the details of this incredible journey that monarch butterflies make and that multi-generational aspect of it in the roosting sites in Mexico until those moments in 1975 when Catalina and Ken Brueger...

you know, chanced upon the roosting sites after two years and driving around the mountains on their motor scooter in their Winnebago. So, so that was a huge discovery that rocked the world of lepidoptery. But then that led to all these other scientific deep dives, including the one by Dr. Lincoln Brower, who, you know, was moving forward with DNA fingerprinting and grinding up butterfly bodies to figure out what the milkweed constitution was. And so there were these two scientists that were kind of like,

Steven Schauer (37:11)
Mm.

Monika Maeckle (37:13)
at odds with each other about, as usual, who's more important? What's the prevailing narrative? Who's on top? And I find that so interesting because we see that happen all the time in science. And I'm not a scientist. And I find it, I mean, it's just in human nature and it happens in every profession. With science, you kind of expect more, I guess, or maybe that's not realistic. But anyway, that's a theme throughout the book of sort of scientific rivalries.

Steven Schauer (37:18)
You

Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (37:41)
And then we get into the drought and then we also explore just how human intervention, I have a chapter that I call The Monarchy, which is basically the sort of sphere of influence that determines the prevailing narrative at any given moment of what we're thinking and believing about monarch butterflies. Like right now, are they going extinct or not? Is the migration gonna continue? And there's all these questions.

Steven Schauer (37:59)
Sure.

Monika Maeckle (38:09)
And there's basically this three-legged stool of influence. You've got academia and the researchers and the nonprofit organizations. You've got journalists and then you've got citizen scientists and monarch butterfly aficionados and they're all interacting with each other on various levels through social media, through email, research papers, through journalism. And it's just a fascinating sort of chemistry.

And at various moments, one prevails and the other doesn't. And it's shifting and moving all the time. And I think it's a very apt lens for so many things, because we see that in politics. We see that in science. We see that in everything, that there's just all these different points of view. And you start to ask yourself and wonder aloud, know, truth is a moving target. It depends on where you're sitting. Your reality is based on where you sit. And that's what you're seeing. And for you, that's truth. And so...

Steven Schauer (38:51)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (39:04)
It's just a sort of an exercise in critical thinking, which I think going forward, I kind of wish I had had a little bit more of a delay, although it took seven years to get this book published. Now that we have AI, if I had to do it again, I mean, there would be a chapter on that because I think AI is going to make all kinds of impacts on every kind of stuff, including the modern migration.

Steven Schauer (39:28)
Sure.

Monika Maeckle (39:32)
So anyway, just trying to figure out what's real and what's not, I think is a big challenge. And I do encourage people to look at all sides of the equation and kind of figure out where they sit and what the truth is for them. But we even get into things like the cartels and avocados and like, have chapter on, there's all this political competition and control.

Steven Schauer (39:48)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (39:56)
in Mexico where the roosting sites are because this is a very special place in the Mexican mountains at 10,000 feet. It's mostly controlled by JIDOS, which are community organizations that resulted from the Mexican Revolution. And they don't have the typical law applied to them as other parts of Mexico. And so it's very difficult generally to enforce or have law enforcement there. so there's a bit of a Wild West aspect to this part of Mexico.

And that's also a place where avocado, same place, the same goldilocks climate where monarch butterflies thrive is exactly the same climate where avocados thrive. And avocados are considered, they call it oro verde, which means green gold. Excuse me, it's very, very lucrative crop, like way more lucrative than so many other things that are exported from Mexico. And so there's this whole competition to sort of...

Steven Schauer (40:40)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (40:53)
take out trees and avocado orchards, and then the cartels are coming in and forcing families to give up their, you know, whatever, to even give up control of their avocado orchards to the cartels. They can use it for money laundering. They can use it to make money. And so there's just all this conflict around this part of Mexico. So there's just a lot in there that leads us to the place that we end up at in the book about talking about are monarchs endangered or not, what's gonna happen.

And I think it's really interesting that, you there was a study just released this week by Andy Davis, the University of Georgia, talking about, you know, we kind of every monarch scientist that I've talked to says monarch butterflies are not endangered, but the monarch butterfly migration is endangered. And I think everybody agrees on that in a recent paper, reinforced that. And that's kind of the point I make in my book as well is that, hey, and you want a hopeful message. mean, the migration is going away, but that doesn't mean monarch butterflies are going. And that might mean that monarch butterflies are more

prevalent in your neighborhood than they were before because they won't just be there part of the world. They'll be there year round or they'll be there more often in greater numbers because the climate and everything they need is available locally. They don't need to migrate. So, but you can change about a debate about that as well. I mean, just like there is about, you know, what kind of milk we do plant. But I like to think that, I mean, everyone also agrees that monarchs are highly adaptable.

Steven Schauer (41:55)
Sure.

climate, yeah, there's all these different factors. Right, right.

Monika Maeckle (42:19)
and that they are going to define in terms of adapting to the new ways of the world, especially if people plant appropriate habitat and don't necessarily meddle in their business so much.

Steven Schauer (42:33)
Yeah. Well, I appreciated just those ties and connections that, know, someone who's familiar with monarchs, but kind of on a 60,000 foot level, so to speak. mean, I know they, their life cycle, I'm understanding of their migratory path. know, kind of novice in all ways of the monarch in your book.

really, you know, critical thinking, it really is tying in all of these different aspects that, you know, I, I just, it never occurred to me before, but as you tell these stories about how your guacamole on Superbowl Sunday might be impacting the, you know, habitat of, you know, the monarchs and, and, know, everything you just talked about with the cartels engaging like cartels and monarchs, like what's going on.

You tie all of these things in in such a clear way when as you're reading the story these things that I might not have thought about you tell the story you're like that makes perfect sense now I see how this is all intertwined I see how this is all connected and and and it's a very human story as well because you get into you know

the lives of some of these individuals that you focus on and that rivalry that you talked about, the scientific rivalry. I found myself similar to what I think you said. These are scientists, why are they doing this? I have scientists in my mind at some higher level and like, yeah, they're just humans, they have egos too. It just ties all of these things that to.

a passerby like me who loves monarchs but may not fully have ever done a deep dive. You just put it all right there for you and tie all these different stories together. And it's such a great read. And I love the fact that you're talking about the evolution of it as well, that monarchs themselves may not go away, but it was just great, right? We don't need any more.

things being extinct because of human activities, but the migration might change and climate change may mean that they don't have to fly thousands of miles to migrate to winter and summer habitats for better or worse. That might just be the way things end up being.

Monika Maeckle (45:14)
Yeah. I I called the Monarch and I look at the Monarch, I call it the gateway bug because I think the other really incredible thing about Monarch butterflies, because they don't sting, they don't bite, they have this very dreamy flight pattern when they just kind of glide along and you're just following them. They're so enchanting. And once you go and you start to look at Monarch butterflies and how the whole system works, and you use the word interconnected, which is a big thing for me, it's all connected.

Steven Schauer (45:14)
So.

you

Monika Maeckle (45:43)
It's not just about the Monarch Butterfly, it's about everything. It's all connected. And earlier you mentioned Mexico and Canada when we did our festival. think that's one of the most powerful aspects of it is like this creature that starts in Mexico, goes to Canada, comes back. It really binds us together in a very meaningful way with so many different kinds of meaning attached to it. But once you dig in and you start to look at it closely and the interactions of it and like...

okay, it needs these plants and it needs these plants in the spring, it needs those plants in the fall and you start to realize the complexity and the sort of engagement of it. It's just like a fascinating way to view the world and I think that's kind of what happened to me. I mean, like you said, know, monarch butterflies and cartels, how did that happen? I've got a way to look at that. It all fits together and it actually has been written about a lot, but I think that's very powerful and...

you know in terms of getting people to think about nature and the ecosystem differently that's one way to get to people is to give them you know the access and understanding and engagement that allows them to come in and really see it for what it is.

Steven Schauer (46:51)
Yes, that's really the whole point of this show, Stories Sustain Us, is exactly that. That facts and figures are important, right? We need data, we need information. But if you don't share that in a story in a compelling way, as you mentioned, truth is where you sit. So facts and figures, people can dispute those. People can...

bring their own facts and figures to an argument that's different from somebody else's facts and figures. But if you can find a way to take your position or your facts and figures and tell it in a story that grabs somebody. You know, by their heart, as much as it does by their mind, that's when you can get people to move into action. That's when you can get people to change their behaviors and say, I, maybe I should plant this type of milkweed instead of that, or I should do a pollinator garden instead of.

You know, a lawn of Augustine grass, you know, these, can get people to do something different through the power of storytelling, not just by telling them, here's a spreadsheet with data on it. So I love that that's what your book is doing. It's full of details and data and information, but your storytelling is so enthralling that I don't want to put the book down. And I do want to...

Monika Maeckle (48:00)
Yeah.

Steven Schauer (48:15)
do something now to make the world a better place. And I really appreciate your abilities and your talent to tell engaging stories around these important issues. So thank you for putting this book out into the world for people like me to enjoy and feel motivated to go do something different now to change my behavior. So thank you for that.

Monika Maeckle (48:39)
Thank you.

Steven Schauer (48:41)
Well, I want to, before we get to the kind of your call to action, something I do want to ask you to talk about, because I think it's really important and you talk about it in the book as well. But for those who may not be familiar with it, you touched on it little bit, that I-35 corridor, but this Texas flyway or the Texas funnel, that particular geography that just happens to be there in this.

you know, central south, south Texas corridor. talk a little bit about that. Cause it's, it's significant, not only for monarch migration, but for all other types of species. But, I think for people who are unfamiliar with that Texas funnel, it's, it's important to know what it is. so can you explain what, what that is? And you're in, you're like right in the heart of it. So.

Monika Maeckle (49:34)
We are right in the heart of it. I mean, there's just the area where we live in San Antonio and here in central Texas is called the Texas funnel. You've got the Rocky Mountains on one side, you've got the Gulf Coast. And so you have this sort of natural flyway or passageway for insects and other creatures, birds, all kinds of migrating wildlife to go up and down, you know, from.

from the north to the south depending on conditions and their inclinations. In terms of monarch butterflies, we have a population, we call it the eastern population, which is all the monarchs east of the Rocky Mountains typically migrate down to Mexico in the fall. And then there's also a west coast population that goes up and down the west coast. And sometimes they end up mixed in with ours, but generally that Rocky Mountain border is sort of like pretty.

It's got to be pretty intimidating thing to like get over. And so it's sort of just naturally, and then there's, you know, wind patterns and drafts and things like that, that also affect it. so that Texas funnel and typically in San Antonio and in the Texas Hill country in the fall, when butterflies in particular are migrating, you know, it's late in the year, we've had a hot summer. And the only place that you're going to find blooming plants is typically along river systems. And so for example, in our situation at our place,

We're on the Atlanta River and the only place that anything's flowering because of the dry, hot, long summer in Texas is along the river where there's water. And so you'll have frostweed or goldenrod or different kinds of, you know, native plants blooming. if naturally the insects and the birds are gonna come to that area because that's where the food is, the monarchs and the butterflies are gonna come for the nectar. The birds are gonna come for the, you know, for the seeds and the insects to eat. The bats are gonna come.

Other creatures are going to come. So rivers are very important. So we do have a lot of rivers in the Texas Hill Country. So that makes for a very welcoming overnight stop on their way to and from. we've had pretty much acknowledged that Texas, in terms of the monarch butterfly migration, Texas is the most important state because when monarchs leave Mexico in the spring after waiting out the winter and...

you know, roosting and then like, okay, they get the kids from the sun, it's warming up, they start heading north in search of milkweed to lay their eggs on. Texas is very often the first place where that first generation of eggs are laid and starts the next year's migratory cycle. And so typically here where I live, have, you know, antelope horns, milkweed or swamp milkweed. But what's happening, what's really interesting, and I actually covered this in the book too, is a word that I didn't know what it meant because I'm not a scientist, but

Steven Schauer (51:59)
Mm.

Monika Maeckle (52:12)
Phenology, which is basically the study of the timing of the seasons is getting very much disrupted by climate change. so for example, a year or two ago when we had that famous storm, Uri, in a very warm February or whenever a couple of weeks before the storm, can't remember the month of the storm, but know, plants started coming out of the ground and the milk was started popping up. And then we had this crazy freeze for like several days, which we don't typically experience in Texas. So everything.

Steven Schauer (52:20)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (52:40)
that popped out of the ground that normally would continue to flourish and put out leaves and shoots and flowers and nectar and provide a host plant. Just got completely shattered by the freeze and was killed in its tracks. And so then when the monarchs, you know, their usual phenological timing of leaving the roosting sites in March and started moving north and they got to Texas to lay their eggs, there wasn't any place to lay them because the milkweed had all been stopped in its track by the freeze. So they continued to move north.

Steven Schauer (53:05)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (53:10)
And then further north they go, the colder it is, and they're less and less likely to find milkweed as they move north. And so they might die in the process. so that might, I mean, I think we're going to see this year that that is going to have, that has affected the migratory population because that first generation then sets the stage for the second generation. You have fewer, know, sometimes they build up, you know, over the, over the course of the summer. And there's a lot of research and evidence that the breeding

Steven Schauer (53:27)
Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (53:38)
know, summer population of monarch butterflies is pretty stable and is not at risk. It's the migratory population that is suffering so much and suffering declines. But anyway, the point is that, you know, with climate change and the timing off of these, you know, formally syncopated occurrences of things that happen, trees, you know, put out their leaves at a certain time, fruit sets at a certain time, flowers set at a certain time, insects, birds, other creatures expect that and they move in that rhythm.

And when that's disrupted, changes everything and disrupts the cycle. So we're seeing a lot of that as well. But here in the Texas funnel, this year was very weird. We had a very, very wet, I believe it was August. We had a super duper hot September. And like I said, we didn't see a lot of butterflies here in October. We haven't seen, I don't think I've seen, I've seen maybe less than 10 in my yard this year, which is pretty, pretty severe.

Steven Schauer (54:10)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Monika Maeckle (54:36)
So it'll be interesting to see where it ends up.

Steven Schauer (54:37)
Yeah.

Well, it definitely could keep talking with you. There's so much more that you talked about in the book. The disputes over which type of milkweed, the disputes over kind of farm raised butterflies and releasing versus just allowing nature to be nature. There's so much covered in this book that we don't have time to...

talk about today, but thank you for touching on the significant impacts of climate change as well, obviously tying into sustainability and the kind of foundation of this show as well. There's so much in your book that I just hope folks go out and get it. what's your call to action? Obviously tell me and tell everybody how they can get access to your book, where they can buy it, but whatever else you want.

people to do after hearing or watching this interview, what's your call to action for the audience, Monika?

Monika Maeckle (55:43)
mean, obviously the most important thing people can do is to plant appropriate plants, native and well-adapted plants for pollinators and wildlife. And honestly, I mean, my book is out. It's available on Amazon, know, bookstores online, your favorite bookstore. And you can order it or go buy it. But I have another book coming out in May.

called Plants with Purpose. And it's interesting, again, these things in life we don't plan, but as I was doing the Monarch book, I started digging into what can we do and what we can do is plant appropriate plants that do more than look beautiful. And in that book, I talk about how you need to look at your yard or your landscape like you're hosting a dinner party. And you're gonna be shopping for planning, preparing, cooking, hanging out, cleaning up after these guests.

in your yard or your dinner party for weeks, months, maybe years. And so if you were going to do that, would you only invite people to your dinner party that were beautiful? Because that has always been sort of the signature call for people who plant plants and for the nursery industry, know, beauty, color, know, you know, razzmatazz, how does it look? And so just like Doug Tallamy, who wrote Nature's Best Hope has done these calls to action about

we need to plant plants that serve the ecosystem as well as look good. And so that's kind of the point of my next book. But you can do that right now, like in your own yard today, you know, in Texas, this is the time we plant plants because it's cooling off and I'm going to the herb market this weekend to buy a bunch of stuff to, you know, restock my yard after the brutal summer that we've had. know, plants that serve multipurposes, you know, there's lots of plants that are beautiful. There's many, many plants that are ignored because they just

you know, maybe don't have the wow factor that other plants do, but they serve all kinds of incredible purpose. They're host plants, you know, they're, they're, you know, they serve defensive landscaping purposes. They, you know, help avoid erosion because their root systems keep the earth intact. So there's just so many ways to look at plants. And it really annoys me that, you know, we all know the names of a monkey or an elephant, which don't live in our neighborhoods, but we don't know the names of the plants that live in our neighborhoods.

Just like with the monarch butterfly, the first step towards conservation or protection is knowing and understanding the organisms. So I really want to encourage people to the names of plants and insects and creatures, not just elephants and monkeys and lions and tigers and bears, my, but like those plants in your yard, those weeds in the sidewalk, those things that you walk past, get to know those plants, look into them and look at what their purpose is in the environment because they all.

Steven Schauer (58:13)
Yeah, putting a name to it,

Monika Maeckle (58:31)
serve a purpose of some sort and they have a role to play in the ecosystem. And as we continue to homogenize our ecosystems, that's one of the things that's getting us in so much trouble with climate change and everything else and contributing to these declines that we're witnessing of insects and plants and other creatures. So dig into it.

Steven Schauer (58:41)
Yeah.

Fantastic. We will put links, make available where folks can get in touch with you, Texas Butterfly Ranch and the book and looking forward to the Plants with Purpose coming out next spring. And fully understand and agree with everything you just talked about, you know, of encouraging people to really look at.

at ecosystem health, not just, you know, monoculture, you know, this plants pretty, so I'm just going to plant this one, just what's best for a healthy ecosystem, which is a variety of things, which is, you know, a mixture of things. That's a fantastic call to action. Thank you for sharing that. So kind of coming to the end, ask the same three questions of all my guests. We talk a little bit about hope here as we end and, you know, climate change and declining

know, migration patterns and everything that we talk about on the show, it's sometimes hard and the future can sometimes certainly look challenging if not bleak given some of the circumstances we're facing. So in addition to the cause of action, I also like to ask people what they're hopeful for and looking at hope in the sense of how it's kind of defined by those who study it. It's you have a vision for a better future.

And you feel you have some agency to get there, that there's something you can do to help make this vision come a reality. You not get there, you might fail, you might stumble. It's going to be hard. Can't do it alone. But you have a vision and some sense of agency to get there. So I'm going to ask you three questions, Monika, about what makes you hopeful. And it's kind of rapid fire. Don't think too long about it. Just kind of first gut feeling to the questions. And we'll kind of...

learn a little bit about what a hopeful future looks like for you. So you're ready for the hopeful questions? Yes. The first question is, what is your vision for a better future? It can be for you personally or professionally or for the world. Just what's your vision for a better future?

Monika Maeckle (1:00:57)
I hope so.

I think that accepting the fact that change is inevitable is a really important concept to embrace, to quote our presidential candidates, we're not going back, the world is changing. I always get a bit frustrated sometimes in the monarch debate because we see all these organizations talk about monarch butterfly populations are down 90 % in the...

the statistic that they cite is from one year in 1997, which could have just been a moment in time. We don't know if that was an aberration. We don't know if that was typical. That's always the statistic they cite. And it's very dramatic and it's very motivating and helps save the monarch butterflies. But it's kind of like, wait a minute, that was just one year. Why are we citing that? And we're not going back to 1997. We didn't have iPhones in 1997 either. So I mean, the world is changing and I think we all need to embrace that.

accept that and manage for that. And I think when we do that, there will be a whole new world opened up to us that will provide all kinds of new opportunities for us that we just need to make ourselves open to, to stop trying to make things like they used to be, because they're not going to be like that again.

Steven Schauer (1:02:27)
Yeah. So I think you touched on the answer to this next question by being open to the possibilities. But just to allow your chance to dig a little bit deeper into your hope for the future that people accept change and be open to it, tell me why that's important. I know you touched on it a little bit, but is there any more you want to add to why that's important?

Monika Maeckle (1:02:54)
I mean, hope is what keeps us going. We can't just resign ourselves to dismay and despair and depression. We have to keep striving. We have to keep pushing. We have to look to the future and try to figure out how to make it the best it can be. That is the nature of humanity. And that's what always has kept us going, I think.

Steven Schauer (1:03:20)
Perfect. So the last question, imagine now we're in a future where people are more open to change and accepting that things evolve and are different and we're looking to the possibilities as opposed to lamenting what was lost in the past. So we're in that future now, we're living there. How does that make you feel?

Monika Maeckle (1:03:51)
think it makes me feel reflective and while I agree and I try not to be that person that's waving their fingers saying I remember when. I do think context is important and I think history is a great teacher and history does repeat itself and hopefully we can apply those lessons going forward and learn from them rather than repeat them.

Steven Schauer (1:04:17)
Right on. Well, Monika, thank you so much for joining me on Story Sustain Us. I really appreciate all that you've shared. It's been great working with you over the years. just, you know, since I've left San Antonio, it's nice to watch from afar that things are still progressing and moving forward in such a wonderful way and really excited for your book that's out looking forward. I'll get a copy of The Plants with Purpose when that comes out as well.

So just keep doing all the amazing stuff that you're doing. You're making the world a better place. And I'm grateful for that. So I'll leave you with the last word.

Monika Maeckle (1:04:56)
Well, thank you so much for having me, Steven It's been great to be on your show and I appreciate all your kind words and I encourage everybody to go out there and plant some native or well-adapted plants.

Steven Schauer (1:05:08)
Perfect. Thank you, Monika. We'll talk to you later. All right. Bye bye.

Monika Maeckle (1:05:12)
All right, thank you, Steve. Take care. Bye.

Steven (1:05:12)
And that does it for episode 19 of Stories Sustain Us. I want to thank Monika Maeckle for sharing her incredible story with us today. It's truly inspiring to hear how Monika's journey from her immigrant roots and childhood love for the outdoors has led her to become such a dedicated advocate for monarch butterflies and conservation. Monika's insights into the parallels between human and wildlife migration remind us of the shared interconnected world we live in.

and the importance of embracing our role within it. Her work in San Antonio with the Mayor's Monarch Pledge and the Monarch Festival clearly demonstrates how community-driven efforts can create meaningful change and inspire others to take action. I also appreciate the wealth of knowledge Monika shared about the monarch migration and the critical role of Texas as a passageway for these beautiful creatures. Monika's call for planting native plants to support pollinators

and her emphasis on hope and resilience in conservation efforts remind us that small, thoughtful actions can indeed make a world of difference. Don't forget about Monika's book, The Monarch Migration Its Rise and Fall. I got my copy right here. It's a wonderful book. I encourage you all to get out there and go buy your copy soon. It's a really insightful book. I'm telling you, the storytelling in it is simply masterful.

Finally, I want to thank Monika for showing us that conservation is more than a cause. It's a community, it's a movement, and it's a powerful story. I'm really grateful for all of Monika's hard work, her top-notch storytelling, and her thoughtful advocacy. And I'm grateful she took the time to come and inspire me today, and hopefully you too. I wish Monika all the best as she continues to create change, one butterfly in one community at a time. And for you, dear audience member,

I hope you're inspired and continue creating change in your community. One kind, compassionate and loving act at a time. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe, rate and leave a review. And please be sure to tell your family and friends about Story Sustain Us. I appreciate all the support. The next inspiring episode of Story Sustain Us will be available on November 19th at storiesustainus.com, wherever you listen to podcasts and on YouTube. Till next time.

I'm Steven Schauer. Please take care of yourself and each other. Take care.