Stories Sustain Us #41 – Exploring the Healing Power of Music

Summary
In this conversation, Steven and Leïla Six explore her journey as a musician, which began through therapy and a deep connection to her emotions. Leïla discusses how her songwriting reflects her experiences and the importance of embracing sensitivity and complexity in life. They delve into her cultural background, musical development, and the significance of her song 'River,' which highlights the relationship between humans and nature. The discussion emphasizes the need for more music that addresses big themes like the ecological crisis, friendship, and the human experience. In this conversation, Leïla and Steven explore the themes of interconnectedness with nature, the inspiration behind Leïla's songs, particularly 'Stateless' and 'Erosion', and the importance of compassion in addressing societal issues. They discuss the role of music in conveying messages of hope and community, emphasizing the need for a shift in narratives to embrace a more inclusive and compassionate worldview.

About the Guest
Leïla Six is an indie singer-songwriter who uses music to question the narratives we were raised into and to try and tell different stories that can help us cultivate better relationships with ourselves, others and the rest of the Earth. Her goal is to create a musical prism of what it feels like to be alive here and now, documenting her own faith in the future as well as her despair; her awe and appreciation for everything that exists as well as her fear and cynicism. 

Show Notes
Linktree: https://linktr.ee/leilasix
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/leilasix
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/leila.six/

Takeaways
•Leïla's journey into music began through therapy.
•Music serves as a tool for emotional processing.
•Embracing all emotions, including discomfort, is essential.
•Cultural background influences artistic expression.
•Learning guitar opened new avenues for songwriting.
•The dream about singing sparked her creative journey.
•Songs can address complex themes like ecology and friendship.
•Art can help people feel less alone in their emotions.
•Sensitivity and complexity are vital in understanding life.
•Music can inspire positive change in society. Interconnectedness with nature enhances our understanding of ourselves.
•Music can serve as a powerful medium for expressing complex emotions.
•The song 'Stateless' reflects a critique of nationalism and a call for compassion.
•Art can be a response to societal issues, blending anger with love.
•Leïla's new song 'Erosion' explores the theme of healing through nature.
•The importance of recognizing our shared existence as a planet.
•Compassion can coexist with anger in artistic expression.
•Borders are human constructs that often divide rather than unite.
•The need for vigilance in maintaining open-heartedness in society.
•Music can inspire listeners to reflect on their values and beliefs.

🎙️ Stories Sustain Us is more than a podcast—it's a powerful platform that shares inspiring stories from people working to make the world a better place. Through honest, heartfelt conversations, host Steven Schauer explores the connections between people, planet, and purpose. From climate change and environmental justice to cultural preservation and human resilience, each episode aims to ignite meaningful action toward a more sustainable future.

🌍 Learn more about the podcast, explore past episodes, and discover how storytelling drives change at storiessustainus.com.

🔗 Follow us and join the conversation:

Facebook: @storiessustainus
Instagram: @stories_sustain_us
X (Twitter): @stories_sustain
Bluesky: @storiessustainus

💚 Your voice matters. Share the stories that move you—and help sustain us all.

Transcript

Steven 
What if the very emotions we're taught to suppress, our grief, our fear, our rage, were actually the keys to healing not only ourselves, but our fractured world? And what if music could be the bridge, turning pain into connection and despair into action? Hey everybody, I'm Steven Schauer. Welcome to Stories Sustain Us, the podcast where we explore the extraordinary journeys of people working to build a more just, sustainable, and compassionate world.

Today's episode is a powerful one. I'm joined by Leïla Six, an indie singer songwriter whose music is born from a dream, literally, and rooted in deep emotional honesty, cultural awareness, and ecological connection. Leïla shares how music became a form of therapy for her, a tool for processing the full spectrum of human emotion, and ultimately a medium for societal critique and hope.

We'll talk about her creative journey from discovering guitar and songwriting to writing songs like River, Stateless, and Erosion, which challenge nationalism, question the stories we've been raised with, and explore healing through nature. Leïla invites us to embrace our sensitivity, complexity, and interconnectedness with the earth and with each other. A little more about my guest. Leïla Six is not your typical artist. Through indie folk and pop rock sounds,

She creates what she calls a musical prism of what it feels like to be alive here and now. Her music seeks to replace dominant, oversimplified narratives with deeper, more compassionate stories, one that honor nuance, embrace contradiction, and inspire listeners to reflect, reimagine, and reconnect. Whether she's singing about friendship, ecology, or collective grief, Leïla's songs are intimate calls to action for the heart, the mind,

and the soul. So get ready to explore how melody meets meaning, how anger can coexist with compassion, and how one voice can help us all feel a little less alone. Here on Story Sustain Us, where we are inspiring action through the power of storytelling.

Steven 
Hello, Leïla, how are you? Welcome to Stories Sustain Us.

Leïla 
Hello, Steven. I'm well, and you?

Steven 
I'm doing great. It is a early morning here in Seattle, a little bit cloudy and rainy as typical in Seattle. ⁓ And it's afternoon for you. Where are you in the world?

Leïla 
I'm in Bilbao, Spain and it's actually very sunny here which is not typical weather for Bilbao but I'm enjoying it a lot.

Steven 
Yeah,

good. Enjoy that sun. We can get it. that vitamin D. That's how it is here in Seattle. We got to get outside anytime we can when it's sunny. So, well, thank you so much for joining me. And I also want to thank you for reaching out to me. You've kind of contacted me and kind of introduced yourself and ⁓ I went and kind of listened to some of your music and it's lovely. It's wonderful. I can't wait to talk to you about your music.

Leïla 
Thanks.

Steven 
But first I want to get to know you a better. So what's your story? How did you get to where you are ⁓ as a musician? So let us know a little bit more about you.

Leïla 
As a musician, everything started when I started therapy a few years ago. It was 2017 when I started therapy. The next year, realized out of the blue that, thanks to a dream actually, I that my love for singing, because I had...

loved singing my whole life could actually be a tool for therapy and for processing emotions and life in general. I had...

Steven 
for healing, yeah.

Leïla 
tried to write a few things before that, years before that, but I was never satisfied with any of the things that I tried to write. So I just figured it wasn't for me. I wasn't good at that. But then when I tried again with the tools I had learned in therapy, I was suddenly happy about what I wrote. And I guess it's because in therapy I had to learn ⁓

I had to learn to answer increasingly precise ⁓ questions from my therapist. So I had to learn a vocabulary that I didn't necessarily know before, which is super helpful to write in general and to write songs ⁓ specifically for me. ⁓ But I think it's a skill that's very important for anyone in all circumstances of life. So yeah, that's how my music adventure started basically.

Steven 
Sure, sure, sure.

Nice.

And thank you for your vulnerability and openness about sharing about your therapeutic journey. I too have been in therapy and it was life-changing for me as well. ⁓ it's something I highly recommend to everyone. We probably all need it. We all probably have some traumas and some things to explore with professional help. so that, sounds like I'm... ⁓

Leïla 
Absolutely. Thank you.

Steven 
You know, looking at some of your bio statements and things are really intriguing to me about what you're trying to do with your music is really document. says here your own faith in the future as well as your despair. know, so it sounds like obviously you're very much in touch with your emotions and you're really identifying how you feel, the highs and the lows of being a human.

Is that an accurate assessment?

Leïla 
Yes, I think I'm definitely in touch with my emotions. If anything, think for me therapy was more an exercise in ⁓ learning to canonize them and to channel them and to deal with them better because I already very much felt them. And yes, ⁓ for me, my music, my songwriting specifically ⁓ journey has been

Steven 
Yeah.

Sure, sure.

Leïla 
obviously different like there are different phases but what I love in every phase is that it's always about like I said ⁓ documenting my emotional life and because I think I'm not necessarily special I think it kind of applies to most humans and ⁓

Steven 
Sure.

Leïla 
Yeah, I think it's a good way for me to really, to not shy away from some specific emotions because they're not worth it. For example, lot of people won't write about joyful things and I think it's amazing to write about...

all inspiring things and I also think it's cool to take a moment to really feel all the sadness and all the like yeah it's like pockets of time or like small places where I can go and anyone can go to really be with an emotion and we have such a wide range of emotions so yeah.

Steven 
The hard things, yeah.

Yeah,

and in my journey as well through Therapeutic Health and just learning that all of these emotions, as I understand it now in practice in my life, ⁓ they all serve a purpose. mean, even the uncomfortable ones. I no longer identify emotions as good emotions or bad emotions. I identify them as comfortable or uncomfortable. ⁓ And the emotions that are uncomfortable.

⁓ They really serve a purpose. So it's, you know, getting into practice of, there's a Rumi poem that I love about, you know, welcoming your emotions as friends, as guests into your home. And so even the ones that are kind of, you know, disturbing or uncomfortable, welcome them and...

⁓ Be curious like why is it here? Why do I feel this way? What is this emotion trying to tell me and help me? It may not be like telling me the truth factually about what's happening, but it's still trying to provide me some direction and some insight into what's happening in my life. Is that similar to your experience as well?

Leïla 
Absolutely,

and because I'm such a hippie, I want to make a similar analogy, but using the image of nature and...

Steven
Yeah.

Leïla 
we could see these uncomfortable emotions as weeds. we typically, especially in traditional or more like conventional industrial agriculture, we tend to see them as nuisances that we should get rid of. But they're actually there. They also play a role in the realm of the entire biodiversity and...

and we can decide to pretend that they shouldn't be there or just try to work with them and appreciate their beauty too. ⁓ So yes, I absolutely relate to that.

Steven 
Right.

Right.

Yeah, wonderful. Well, can I ask you a little, I saw, I did read somewhere else on one of your profile pieces on ⁓ the website as I was learning about you. I know you're in Spain now, but I believe you are from France. that, yeah, can you tell me a little bit about that journey from France to Spain? ⁓ If that's something that you're okay sharing about.

Leïla 
Yes, I'm French.

Yeah,

absolutely. ⁓ It's not super exciting. I came here a few years ago because my boyfriend was offered a transfer here and ⁓ he's from Latin America, from Colombia. And we wanted to go back to France and he was offered a ⁓ transfer here too, which was not France exactly, but close enough. And we decided that yes, it was close enough and we came here.

Steven 
Pretty close, sure. Yeah. Yeah,

nice, nice. So what part of France, if you don't mind me asking just one more French question, I'm just curious. Did, yeah. Paris, okay.

Leïla 
⁓ I was born in Paris, but then

I grew up mostly ⁓ in the south between Aix-en-Provence and Marseille, which is ⁓ one of the best parts of France, maybe the best parts of France, the part of France. So yeah.

Steven 
Nice. What makes it

the best part?

Leïla 
First of all the weather. I'm used to very nice weather. The people are nice, the scenery is where I grew up. I had the sea, mountains, rivers, like everything very close to where I lived and I didn't live in the...

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Hahaha

yeah, perfect. Yeah.

Leïla 
in a rural area, know, but everything like two hours away you can have so many different ⁓ landscapes and ⁓ yeah and the weather.

Steven 
Yeah. Yeah,

I can relate to that here with Seattle, maybe not the weather part, but the full on, I can get to the mountains or the ocean, rivers, forests. I can get to anything within a couple of hours as well. And so I can really appreciate that and how important that is for me. I can.

I guess I gotta go visit the Marseille ⁓ area of France one of these days. I've been to Paris, which was lovely, but apparently I didn't get to the best part of France yet, so. ⁓

Leïla 
Maybe I'm not the most objective person on that one.

Steven 
Well, I appreciate your life experience nevertheless. ⁓ So, musically then, you said your journey really started in therapy, but did you have a history of already being, already knowing how to play the guitar or something before? all of this kind of come to you in the last five, six, seven years?

Leïla 
No, I learned to play the piano I think when I was six or something like very young. ⁓ And then I stopped and since then I've forgotten everything I knew about piano. Sadly, very sadly. ⁓ But basically I've always been ⁓ very annoying, singing all the time, humming, singing. I remember being very annoying to...

Steven 
Sure.

Sure.

Leïla 
I I don't remember anyone to make my sisters or my parents complaining, but now I think about it and I think how annoying it must have been for them to be around someone who was always making noise. And so that's definitely always been very important for me. I didn't realize that before ⁓ that dream that I shortly mentioned, but.

Steven 
You

Yeah.

Leïla 
It was always absolutely a part of my, just my way of being. And I only learned the basics of guitar playing ⁓ in 2020. ⁓ Yeah, because I was in Spain, we only had...

Steven 
Really?

Leïla 
around two months of lockdown and I didn't have any instrument with me and I was a bit frustrated because I couldn't make music how I wanted to and I couldn't yeah, collaborate with my music partners as easily as I wanted to. And around September of 2020, we were hearing rumors of another lockdown maybe and I was like...

Steven 
Sure, sure.

Leïla 
If that happens again, I need an instrument at home. I don't have a piano here. It's too big. It wouldn't fit in my apartment. So I'll just get a guitar and learn basic chords. And I bought a 40 euro guitar second hand. We didn't have another lockdown in the end, but I start learning a few basic chords. And ⁓ it's so much fun. And yeah, since then... ⁓

It took my songwriting to another level because at first I was really focused only on the lyrics and melodies, but now I can actually use, I think it's the vibration of the guitar, like of the sound. It really helps me see where I want to go and like what resonates with the feeling that I'm feeling. And so yeah, it's a whole other level of...

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Leïla 
a company I want to say. Like I feel a company of the guitar when I'm composing. Thank you.

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Of course, yeah. Well,

I certainly wouldn't have guessed you're only a few years into your guitar playing journey because listening to some of the songs that think you're also playing the guitar on, certainly seem... Not always you? Okay. I appreciate... Well...

Leïla 
not not it's not always me i should say it's not always when it's

very good it's probably not me

Steven 
Thank you for your honesty.

Well, can I ask you, you've mentioned it a few times. So it seems like this is an important part of your story, but can you share the dream you had that, you know, part of, at least whatever you're comfortable sharing of that dream, but it seems like that was a kind of an important part of your journey into music.

Leïla 
to know.

It is and it's funny because I think I only remember last week or two weeks ago, remember remembering about that and that's when it all started. So yeah, I can absolutely tell you. ⁓

Steven 
Yeah, yeah, please tell me about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Leïla 
One day, one night, I dreamt that I was with my brother-in-law who I've made a lot of songs with. He's a guitar player. He used to be in a band. He's good at music. But we had never made music together. We had never done anything like that. And I was with him and his dog. And in my dream, I was speaking, but the sound coming out of my mouth was like...

Steven 
Yeah.

Yeah.

Leïla 
kind of the sound of the cello. I think it was the sound of the cello. And I was surprised and I didn't understand what was happening. And for him, it was like super normal. He didn't react in the dream. And I was like, how do you not react to that? Like, it's not my voice, it's the cello. And I remember waking up.

Steven 
wow. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Leïla 
and thinking, what a weird dream. And I told my therapist and she asked me, and ⁓ what does singing mean to you? And I was like, well, I always sing. It's like so normal for me. And she said, I remember her phrase and her saying, I can't believe it's been like over a year of therapy and never have you mentioned that you like singing.

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
And I was like, oh well, yeah, I don't know. It's not like a topic for me, it's so obvious. And a few days later, I don't know if you know the board game Dixit.

Steven 
No, don't think I do. Yeah.

Leïla 
⁓

Basically you play with cards that are very... You have a bunch of editions made by different illustrators and they're very... almost esoteric, like they can be very strange. And I was playing with my family and I pulled a card and I had a card that portrayed a woman with a face with her body was a cello.

Steven 
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Cello.

⁓ Yeah, the universe is talking to you. Yeah. Nice.

Leïla 
And I swear I was like, my God, this is like my dream. And I stopped the game and I said, this is my dream. And

so yeah, it's, I guess from that and from talking to my therapist and then ending the therapy because she had to stop working at the time. And I was left kind of.

I didn't know how I was going to be able to process my emotions by myself. And I thought, okay, how do people do that? ⁓ Art, okay, what kind of art should I make? Okay, I can sing, so maybe I can try that. And that's how it all started.

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Just started.

That's a beautiful story. Thank you, Leïla, for sharing that. I love it. Love all of that. Does the cello have, beyond the dream that you had and the vision that kind of helped instill in you, is there a history of classical music or orchestra music in your, prior to this stream? Has that been kind of in and out of your life in one way or another, or was it just kind of...

Leïla 
I love how it sounds, I love how low it sounds, but actually after that I remember Googling, I think I found ⁓ something on Wikipedia, I think saying that the cello sound is the most similar to the human voice. I think I read that, maybe I'm transforming a memory just to make it suitable for like to make it fit my narrative.

Steven 
Yeah.

Yeah, sure, Sure, tying it into your dream. Yeah,

of course. We do that, yeah. Yeah, well, cell is a lovely instrument and absolutely whether that ⁓ is an imagination you put together or if that's reality, either way, it's such a lovely instrument and certainly had obviously a great impact in you and your journey. So that's fantastic. Thank you for.

Leïla 
That's what I think I remember.

it is.

Steven 
for sharing that. really appreciate tying all that together. Yeah, yeah, no, that's lovely. So I want to ask a little bit about your music and then maybe we can talk a little bit about some of your songs and your process and some of the messages you're hoping to get across and dreams and visions for your career ahead. again, going back to your bio, one of the things that I really

Leïla 
Thank you for asking.

Steven 
appreciated when I read it and I was like, well, I gotta ask her about this is your bio says she she blends elements of indie folk and pop rock to Infiltrate the mainstream with this call to embrace sensitivity and complexity. I Love that idea of this call to embrace sensitivity and complexity. Can you

Tell me a little bit about what that means to you and, you know, obviously it was important enough to put it into your bio. So what does that mean to you? Because it sounds wonderful to me.

Leïla 
Well, basically, I think a lot of today's problems were just in general misunderstandings, be it between people or between cultures or between us and the situation that... ⁓

demands some things from us that we don't want necessarily to do, for example the ecological crisis. ⁓ I think ⁓ a lot of that is because we're not taught to embrace complexity and sensitivity in the sense of our emotions, but I don't say just emotions because I always really love that sensitivity also applies to the body. So for me it's not like

Steven 
Right.

Leïla
It's not me, like emotions happen in the body. it's all of it is very bodily and I like that word because it encapsulates all of that. ⁓ basically with my music, what I want to do amongst other things is ⁓ to help people, to offer people ⁓ opportunities to recognize the richness of their ⁓ capacity to feel and to

Steven 
Of course.

Leïla 
to exist in some way, shape or form. I think one ⁓ of the ways we can do that is by noticing, by learning how to notice different kinds of emotions that we don't necessarily think about or like feeling all the time. For example, one we don't think about too much, I think, is awe, like I was mentioning before, just in general, extreme... ⁓

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Leïla 
joy and just being impressed and being yeah absolutely ⁓

in awe of what we have all around us. And I like also using the word impressed because we use it all the time for very human things, like we're impressed with someone or a movie, whatever. But we forget to be impressed with things that seem more mundane, for example, a tree or even an object that's made of the same matter as me.

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
is crazy to think of. So yeah, it's a small invitation, a three-minute invitation to maybe ⁓ think about that huge complexity that can seem very simple when you disconnect with the emotion. An emotion can be very simple to think and to feel, ⁓ but if you let it take your body and your mind then you realize, whoa, there's so much

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Leïla 
to see, that encapsulates so much. So there's that, more positive things. also, like I was mentioning before, one of things we don't want to see the complexity of is the ecological crisis, and in general, just the ecosystem. And I think I want to try with my music to...

Steven
happening right.

Yeah.

Leïla 
create a space where people can acknowledge feelings that they don't always want to hear within themselves. For example, being scared for your future or... and not even just the ecological crisis. That's not all I write about, although I like it. I mean, like writing about that, but it's not all of it. ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

Sure.

Leïla 
but also feeling sad or lost after a friend disappears from your life, for example. That's something I've been through and it's very hard and we don't have, I think these are things that sadly mainstream culture doesn't do a great job at portraying. And so...

Steven 
Right.

Leïla
At least I didn't have the vocabulary to name these things and to talk about them and to process them and to hope and to feel like someone could understand me and maybe give me some advice or discomfort. And so, yeah, I hope with my songs people can feel a little less alone in these emotions and acknowledge them and hopefully.

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
If more people can name and acknowledge these things, hopefully that can bring about some positive change. so, for example, change towards a more sustainable...

system, you know, or change for healthier friendships or change for a culture that's, that's something that I'm interested in, a culture that's centered around romantic relationships because we know that it's not necessarily the most healthy model. so yeah, I, that's one of the things that I try to do with my music, but I hope I can do, I mean, that's the aim.

Steven 
Right, right.

Yeah. Well,

I think you're accomplishing it. mean, the songs that I've listened to, I mean, cover that spectrum of things that you just talked about from eco anxiety and fears about the future to, you know, the joys of the love of friendship, you know, not necessarily as you point out, there's all kinds of romantic love songs, but the song that you have about, you know, loving friendship and.

And then obviously the nature, some of the songs that you have that are inspired by the world that we share with others and the environment. And I saw on your Linktree page as well, the little tag description of yourself says little songs about big things like nature, friendship, death, and being human. So I love that because it is... ⁓

You know, and I'm saying little songs as in three minute songs, not little as in scope, because the scope of what you're covering is huge. It's the breadth and width of being a human. so I love that little tag and yeah, you're tackling some really big subject matter in your artistry and in your lyrics.

Tell me a little bit about your writing process when it comes to your little songs about big things like nature, friendship, death, and being human. What's your creative process? What inspires you to write about these things? if you can kind of walk me through...

What's going on in you as you're like, gotta get this song out, I gotta create this, I gotta tell this story.

Leïla 
think it's a difficult question because ⁓ I don't feel like I have a specific process. think it's just like if I feel something even a small one, a small feeling because I said like I said I'm very connected to my emotions I can easily say ⁓ I'm feeling this or that and because also I have ⁓ fortunately now I have

Steven 
Sure, sure.

Yeah.

Leïla 
the tools to try and really define what it is. If I feel like it's interesting, I'll try to elaborate on it. Or sometimes it just feels urgent. Most of the time that's the case actually. It just feels like I have to take this little thing and make it big. ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
And even if it's just for me, you know, I have a bunch of songs that I've never released and I hope to release them one day because I like all of them, most of them at least. But ⁓ yeah, not all of them are super, you know, ⁓ relatable or anything. But I think my process, if you can call it that, is just being very sensitive and enjoying. ⁓

Steven 
Sure.

You

Leïla 
taking, making these things take more space than they maybe they, I was gonna say maybe they should, but no, I think they should take more space. ⁓ yeah, and in terms of the subjects, I think there's two categories for me because anything that's very personal, for example, my songs about friendship are directly, ⁓

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Leïla 
things that I felt and that I've written for myself. And there are the other ones that, I some of the ones that I've written more because I think the world needs that. Can you hear me? I don't know what's happening.

Steven 
You're still here. I still have you, Leila. Yeah.

Leïla 
Okay, sorry,

my screen tells me something but I don't know if it's...

Steven 
Yeah,

no, yeah, the, from the internet connection, I think we have a little bit of a, ⁓ of a interesting connection this morning, but I can still hear you when you're talking. So even if you, even if you kind of, ⁓ look like it's gone away for a minute, I can still hear you. yeah, we're okay. Sorry for the weird connection we're having this morning, but it's. Yeah, but yeah, I still have you. It's still good.

Leïla 
Okay.

Okay, okay. No, no, it may be from my end, I have no idea. ⁓

Okay, so I was saying ⁓ some of the some other songs I really think the world needs them ⁓ I'm not saying I have like the best ⁓ songwriting ever and they're gonna heal the world but but I do think that we don't have enough songs about these things for example ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
⁓ about the ecological crisis but also about nature in general because ⁓ about the good parts of our relationship with nature and about our relationship with nature as a concept because we tend to think and to learn about nature as something that's outside of us and that's just like a

a reservoir for resources that we can use. And we forget the aspect of like the very ecological and biological aspect of it, that it's an actual relationship. so I like...

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Leïla 
Highlighting that in my songs and these are not necessarily songs that I that I'm Like feeling like this is urgent. I have to get it out right now It's more like huh, I have this thought and I think it would make for a beautiful image or a beautiful Three minutes where you can yeah, just

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Leïla 
⁓ think about it and it's nice to think about it and hopefully if we think about it more in that way we can change the entire way we relate to nature.

Steven 
Yeah, but kind of sounds to have, you know, kind of a great transition. I was going to ask you about your song River, a love song to water. I mean, it sounds like that's what you're trying to capture in that song. This this relationship to rivers and waters. Can you tell me a little bit or tell the audience a little bit about that that song? Yeah.

Leïla 
Yes.

This one is actually a bit special because it's I adopted an animistic point of view in this song where I talk to the water and it's called river. So I do talk about a river, but really I talked to the water in the shape of a river. So I consider in that song that it has ⁓ that it has agency and it's

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
kind of decides to take that form in that moment. And not only that, but also I, in the chorus I say, carry me and we river together. So I use river as a verb and not as a noun, which is inspired by an indigenous language from, I don't, the North of America, but I don't know exactly the area. And... ⁓

I thought it was really nice because it's an animistic, ⁓ they have an animistic worldview in this tribe, I guess I can say. And so I was inspired ⁓ by that to write this chorus because... ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
The river itself is just the shape that the water takes and it's also, in a way, the shape that I take because when I say we river together, I suggest that I myself am a body of water, which I kind of am because I'm a body. My body is made mostly of water. if you know that, So I really like, and I've always liked thinking of myself as a body of water even before the song.

Steven 
Mostly water, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Leïla 
And so as I enter the river, I become one with the river. I become one with the water rivering. So I myself am participating in that action. ⁓ And yeah, it's a different way of thinking. I could have just said, I am at the river and it's so beautiful. And I'm enjoying myself and the water is cold and it's nice.

But I think it's interesting and it's important to create these new images, ⁓ which are not that new actually, it's just like new for Western culture. But for us, at least for me, it is new, it is different. And I think it's important because it allows us to remember that the water that I'm seeing right now

Steven 
Right, right, right, exactly.

Yeah.

Leïla 
as I'm on the, you know, just sitting by the river is part of the water cycle. And the water in my body is two. So it's really the same water. so that also means, so this is the beautiful part because it's poetic and it's a beautiful, like ⁓ it's a positive message. But if you integrate this and then you see industries polluting ⁓ waters all around, like, ⁓

Steven 
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Leïla 
the clothing industry, the agro industry, everything. Then you can also realize that it's the same water and it doesn't make sense to keep doing that. If you acknowledge and accept and even like that it's the same water, if you think it's beautiful, if you think it's a beautiful relationship, then it doesn't make sense to keep polluting them and to keep...

Steven 
clothing industry is notorious for that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Right.

Leïla 
warming the waters up and acidifying oceans. I think these different narratives around natural elements can help us ⁓ basically create or remember that we have a much more intimate relationship with nature than the one we think we have.

and also much more exciting because a lot of times, know, activism around nature in general can get a bit... People feel scolded, like people feel like they're doing something wrong and also like they're gonna lose something. And it's true, we're gonna lose some convenience. But also...

Steven 
Sure. Yeah.

Leïla 
it's a, we can gain a lot more beauty and lot more excitement just thinking about these, the place we have in the world. It's a lot more interesting. So yeah.

Steven 
Yeah.

No, I love all of that. I love the interconnectedness of it. You know, our interconnectedness with nature and ourselves and our body and each other and how it's all intertwined in, inescapably intertwined. You know, we can imagine that it's not and we can talk to each other like we're separate from, like, you know, we have for centuries and in Western culture for the most part.

But we're not, we're not separate from, we are intertwined. are part of, love the vision in the word choices and the creativity. I it's a beautiful song. I'm really drawn to it. And obviously it will admit my biases as well. I've worked in rivers and waters for 20 plus years in my career and you know, got rivers behind me and the wall and...

Leïla 
Thank you.

Steven 
part of my morning meditation every day. When I start my day, I thank my body for being a part of and carrying me along the river of life. know, rivers are very central part of my own thinking of creation and connectivity to everything. So this song truly, truly resonated with me and I was like, this is great. This is, you know, there's so many layers to this song. So thank you for explaining that to the audience and ⁓

Leïla 
I'm glad you liked it.

Steven 
If it's okay with you. ⁓ it's

beautiful song. ⁓ And the artwork that goes along with the thumbnail on YouTube where you're scrolling the lyrics to the song as you're singing, is that your artwork or what's the story of that artwork? Because it's a beautiful piece of artwork as well.

Leïla 
I can tell you this story, I love this story. ⁓ It's a friend of mine who made it. ⁓ His name is Jorge Carvajal, Colombian illustrator. And he's actually the boyfriend of one of my best friends. And I was with my best friend. ⁓

at one of her favorite rivers spots in Colombia last year when I wrote the song. And she loves rivers. For example, my favorite body of water is the sea and hers is rivers. So I started writing the song there and I asked her, since you love it so much, since you have such a strong connection with rivers, like give me, know, keywords that are what it represents to you. And so for me, this song was always connected to her and

Steven 
Yeah.

Yeah.

Leïla 
And so when I was about to release it, I contacted her boyfriend and said, hey, what do you think? Like at first I asked him if he had any, you know, any sketches about rivers or whatever like that I could use and he didn't have any, but he said I can make something and it can be like a double gift because it was going to be, this song was going to be a gift from me to her.

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
And so he made that illustration for the song and I think it's beautiful. I love it. And if you zoom in, which I don't know if you can, but if you zoom in, can, on Instagram you can because I published it too. Even the rocks, the face of the river is a rock and it has like, ⁓ you know, it's a bit fractured. has like small details. I love it. I love it.

Steven
It is.

Yeah,

yeah, it's a beautiful illustration and to go along with a beautiful song. it's really encouraging everybody. I said I'll link to it on our show notes page so people can go check it out, listen to the song and see the illustration. It's together as a package. It's perfect. It's really beautiful. So ⁓ could I ask you about another song that I was really drawn to as well? It's your song Stateless.

Leïla 
I'm going to it.

Steven 
Can you talk a little bit about that song and tell us what it is, what it's about, and because it's another song and I'll, I'm going to preface this before you answer the question by saying it, it, different lyrically in different melody, but it reminded me so much of John Lennon's Imagine. It was, when I listened to it, I was like, oh, this is, this is like part two of that amazing song. So.

Yeah, I mean, it's a brilliant song.

Leïla
gonna cry because... ⁓

Steven 
Yeah, I'm almost crying too, because it's such a great song.

Leïla 
When I released the song, I actually told people even like on Instagram and things, like on social media, like if you like, no, I think I was saying ⁓ this is kind of my more an angrier version of Imagine by John Lennon. And I'm so happy that you saw that. ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

I made that connection right away. was like, oh, is

if I am confident if he was still with us and Lord knows wish we was, he would appreciate this song. mean, it's such a great song.

Leïla 
⁓

That's so nice to hear, thank you so much. Well, wrote it initially years ago. I wrote it in French at first and then I didn't like it in French because I don't like how I sing in French or how it sounds. I don't know what happens French to me. But I translated it ⁓ in English. And basically I wrote it when... ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

⁓

Yeah.

You

Leïla
French president Macron was mentioning at some point that, or his first prime minister, I don't know, someone in the government was mentioning that they were gonna implement ⁓ like a pledge of allegiance basically in schools or something like that. And which in French sounds crazy, in France, sorry, it sounds crazy because I know in the US it's super normal, but in France it's like nah.

Steven 
Mmm, yeah.

Yeah.

Meh. Yeah, yeah,

yeah.

Leïla 
And only very certain people from a certain political view would be super on board with that in France. And I was like, this? It's like, how are you gonna? Yeah, and for me, seemed like such a, first of all, such a ⁓ poor... ⁓

Steven 
Sure, yeah. The far right, more nationalist kind of folks. Yeah.

Leïla
initiative, like how are you going to solve big problems like the ones we have? Obviously they were going to try to solve like ⁓ fears around, you know, terrorism and because that stands from a lack of integration and a lack of trust in the like all of that, which is another complex topic. But precisely because of that, like, do you really think you're going to solve this such a complex thing with

Steven 
immigration and

Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Leïla 
Like making people pledge allegiance in school, I thought it was ridiculous and really ⁓ infuriating because that's not the level of policy that we expect from people who are supposed to be super smart and have all the resources to make the best decisions for all of us. And so I wrote this song at ⁓ first because of that. And so basically...

Steven 
Right.

You

Leïla
I mean, ⁓ our listeners can go and listen to it, basically ⁓ I say that I don't care. I've always been... I don't know if I've always been, but I've never been ⁓ interested in nations. Like the notion of a nation just doesn't do anything for me. ⁓ And I think it may be because... ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
I'm the daughter of two people who were born in a certain nationality and then became another nationality when their country became independent. And so I guess just that family history made it very clear to me that borders are made up. Both of my parents were born in Africa, which is just, if you look at Africa on the map, it's just straight lines, obviously drawn up by Western guys.

Steven 
Yeah, absolutely.

Yep. ⁓

Leïla
to

just divide up resources. So it's like it's so obvious to me that I can't really take any border seriously in general. Obviously I do ⁓ respect the law and I travel with my passport and things like that. As a concept and as a worldview. ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

Sure, sure, of course. But yeah, it's all made up.

the right, there's not an actual line physically on the earth that is like gravity that's there because nature put it there. It's human fiction that we've ⁓ all come to. Yeah, well, it's stuff we've made up and we've come to collectively agree that that's the truth, even though it's something we created.

Leïla 
Exactly.

Exactly, I like that lot.

Yeah.

And I think that would be fine if the whole system, ⁓ like if the rest of the system was okay, like if everything was working out. But when you have...

issues that involve nationalities and like are we exposing them and are we or this is because of this or that religion that comes from this in that culture and this in that country then then it comes from that like you can't for me what it becomes serious and it becomes ⁓ a big deal when these this fiction ⁓ becomes more important than our

Steven 
Sure.

Leïla 
core values. And in France, we're supposed to hold very, like, these values of fraternity, like fraternity, like brotherhood almost.

Steven 
Yeah.

Yeah, very liberal democratic

view of the world.

Leïla 
And solidarity, like this is so... It's at the core of our culture. And when suddenly that becomes less important than a fiction. And of course these values are also in some capacity fiction. ⁓ But they translate values that are fundamentally human. yeah, for me it's like...

Steven 
Sure, sure.

Leïla 
we have to get our priorities straight. And so that was my, it was not my attempt at being constructive. This song is because normally I like trying to be constructive in some of my songs. This was not that I was just like, yeah, pissed at the lack of intelligence of this proposal, which I don't even think made it in the end. But yeah, it was just like,

Steven 
Yeah, yeah.

Leïla 
a waste of attention and time and resources.

Steven 
Yeah.

Well, it's interesting you say that was that you were angry and it was kind of like a protest song, I'm imagining ⁓ for this policy, but it's still infused, at least in my listening and in my mind, it's still infused with this. ⁓

I don't know, kind of love is the word that kind of is what it's infused with to me. mean, even though it is, I appreciate the understanding now of how, what the background was that, that inspired you to write it was, was anger. Um, and, and how you described it, not necessarily being constructive from your perspective, but for me, I don't know, it still comes across as instructive. Like, Hey, we should, there's a different way to live. There's, there's a different way that we could.

Leïla 
Thank

Steven 
um, treat each other and not that, you know, a sense of belonging isn't important that we, we belong to this area or we belong to these people, but that those, those artificial boundaries and, and borders that we put up, uh, are harmful, you know, in, you know, so it's still kind of felt that that's why I equated it to, to imagine is that there's still this really deep sense of compassion.

in the writing of it, in the lyrics of it, even though, you know, and I don't know that anger and compassion can't go hand in hand. I mean, I think, yeah.

Leïla 
No, no, no, that's true. And

I did try to be compassionate in it. And it's funny because I guess I'm just, you can still feel love because I'm a hippie, like I said, it's my core, it's my base. And also I'm not a very angry person. I always, yeah, I can start with angry, with anger, but then it morphs into a...

Steven 
Hahaha

Leïla 
Yeah, like you said, compassionate. remember writing it, especially the English version. I was trying to... I wanted it to be irrefutable. I didn't want to say anything that anyone could say, yeah, but... No, I wanted to say like very basic truths and statements and... ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

Sure.

Leïla 
But yes, in a compassionate way. for example, when I say like towards the end, when I say, history, you and me, what is that? My own lyrics? It's been so long and I have so many other lyrics in mind. ⁓ Basically, I do remember trying to be, to not come off as arrogant because arrogance is my, I think is the...

Steven
Hahaha

Yeah, yeah, no worries.

Leïla 
the flaw that I despise the most. And I'm sure I can come off as arrogant sometimes, especially being French. But it's truly something that I try to stay clear from.

Steven 
Sure. ⁓

Leïla 
⁓ most of the time because I know it's so easy to seem arrogant when you're just so sure of what you're saying. And so I was trying to be to say definitive things but in a compassionate way so the person wouldn't feel attacked but like more invited to think of it that way.

Steven 
Yeah.

Yeah,

I like how the word choice you just use are invited to think differently, because that's the sense I got from it. When I listened to it, I didn't feel like you were preaching down ⁓ from a place of greater wisdom than anybody else. were person to person, peer to peer.

⁓ expressing a point of view and inviting somebody to open their mind to a different perspective is what I got out of this song. I think it's a brilliant song and I think it's really lovely. So I'm grateful that you put it out there for us to appreciate. And yeah, I think all of what you're saying, I'm hopeful people will ⁓ think about and open their ideas and their minds to these concepts that you put in those lyrics.

Leïla 
Thank you.

Steven 
Thank you for doing that. ⁓ I know I want to be respectful of your time today. There's ⁓ kind of a leave it up to you. I want to talk about one more song, but I've got a few songs on the list. But I saw I'll let you, know, the the eco anxiety song that you had your ocean of tears, the or your friendship ⁓ love song.

Leïla
Thank you.

Thank you.

Steven 
or any other song we haven't talked about, is there another song that's really special to you and important to you right now that you would like to share about ⁓ and tell us a little bit about?

Leïla 
Actually, I'd like to talk about a song that's when this airs it will be out but it's coming out May 2nd and it's actually from a new generation of songs that I'm writing because it's part of an EP that I'm writing with a specific yeah theme and ⁓

Steven 
Great.

Leïla 
really excited about that and it makes it's in the same line as everything I just said but ⁓ with an even more specific focus because basically I'm really obsessed with the fact that we're all made of the same matter. I'm utterly obsessed with that and it's funny because it's my it's kind of my form of spirituality but it's not really spiritual because it's not spirits but

Steven 
Perfect.

Yeah.

Ha ha!

Leïla 
matter so it's like materialism I don't know but I find a lot of oneness in that and I think it's super helpful also to remember that to just on a fundamental level and so ⁓ the approach of the EP is like each song it's going to be six songs and ⁓ four of them are about one element that we share like

Steven 
Yeah.

Yeah.

Leïla
⁓ one of the four elements and how we are made of how each element is present in us and not just in nature, know, like the four elements of nature. then two other songs that kind of fit in that. And the first one, the one that will be out when this airs is called Erosion. And so it's about the element of Earth. And it's basically... ⁓

Steven 
Yeah.

Yeah. Love it.

Leïla 
It's an invitation to see ourselves as matter, like I said, and as matter that can get eroded with time and by the touch of the elements, like the wind and the rain. I think it's... It's specifically our pain because in the song it's about the pain. And so I kind of imagine our pain and our heart...

Steven
Mm-hmm.

Sure.

Leïla 
when it gets very cold and hard because we've been hurt and we're afraid and we don't want to open it for anyone else, ⁓ just to trust that the elements will ⁓ erode it and will soften ⁓ the matter and the pain. And so yeah, that's what the song is about. And I'm really excited about it because it's the first of...

Steven 
Yeah.

Yeah.

Leïla 
of this EP and for me it's a whole exercise in trying to include nature in language which I've done before but in this one I was really specifically trying to do that because I'm really interested in using language, the English language, really include nature not just as a context or as a

as a, I don't know, a source of, you know, of metaphors, but really to situate our emotional experience in its broader natural context. And so, for example, one thing I'm trying to do is, and I do in this song, is ⁓ name, not necessarily name, ⁓

Steven
Yeah.

Yeah.

Leïla 
like explicitly, but I want to use the aspect of nature that I'm using, like in this case, Earth. I want to use it as a character and not just as a metaphor because I think, okay, this may sound a bit not controversial, I know a lot of people love symbols and symbols are great and they can be very helpful, but I also think that...

Steven 
Sure. Yeah. Very powerful. Sure.

Leïla 
But they can also lead to anthropocentric thinking. think like I've seen it so much and it's fine. Like that's fine. But I want to balance that with another way of using. ⁓

Steven 
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Leïla 
the images that we can see outside of us and by really using it ⁓ as a character or as a force that's not just there, that doesn't just serve a purpose of, yeah, a simple metaphor, but actually to integrate us humans in that natural context where that other aspect also exists. ⁓

Steven 
Right.

Leïla 
So that's not about the song that I'm talking about, but just as a phrase to give you an example, to flow like water, that can be just a beautiful image, but we are like we were saying before, we're also made of water. So if I see myself as water, which in a certain sense to a certain degree is accurate, ⁓ then I can say flow like water in a more...

Steven 
Mm-hmm.

Leïla 
literal or natural sense and then it becomes, to me at least, becomes a song about the both of us. Not just me extracting lessons from a natural symbol for my own selfish purposes, but really including nature to see how I relate with its different elements and yeah. ⁓

Steven 
Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Leïla 
Going back to the song, erosion is... I'm trying to do that in erosion with the element of earth and just trying to create... Actually, I love the dichotomy of... I don't know if it's really a paradox, rather between, you know, we think of earth, of rocks, these hard objects.

Steven 
Yeah.

Leïla 
And I want to invite people to see them as something that any mountain is going to become sand at some point. At some point it's going to become sand. We won't be there to see it, but at some point. And so even the hardest of pains, if you feel like it's just too hard and you're petrified with pain and with fear, let the elements...

Steven 
Right.

Right, But I love that. Yeah.

Yeah. Let the natural processes happen. Yeah. Well, that I can't wait to hear it. I can't wait to hear it. And thank you for sharing about that. And I'm glad this episode is going to be coming out right around that same time. those listening to this or watching to this as soon as this is finished, they can head over to your site and check out that new release. That's fantastic. So it's erosion is the name of the song as well. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect.

Leïla 
do what they do.

What is?

Steven 
⁓ Besides checking out your music, ⁓ what's your call to action? We're kind of coming to the end of the hour here and I want to give you an opportunity to direct people to your website or your Instagram or wherever you want people to go to check out you and support your work and whatever else you want people to do now that they've heard your story. What's your call to action for folks, Leila?

Leïla 
Mainly if they want to, they're interested in this type of new narratives or rather different narratives than the one we are living in, they can go listen to my music on any music platforms. I'm on Spotify, Apple Music, everywhere.

And if they want to support my work, they can join my Patreon, which is... They can join for free and I share like behind the scenes and each month I also share my favorite sentence of a song. But they can also support financially if they feel like it. And because that's...

I'm not into the super polluting ⁓ music industry, so I'm trying to create another path for myself as an artist. And yeah, they can follow me on Instagram ⁓ and also on TikTok and YouTube, but on Instagram I do tend to share more.

Steven 
You

Sure. Sure.

Leïla 
messages about why the songs came to be and what messages I'm trying to convey with them in other words than the ones I use in the song and so yeah and if they want to leave with anything from me, my music and my message in general is it's that we are

basically earth feeling itself and thinking about itself and so let's embrace the wide spectrum of experience and of existence and my songs are just there to try and highlight this spectrum which can feel a bit

Steven
Yeah.

Leïla 
I can feel it shrinking a bit in everyday life. So I try to keep it wide. And so if they need a little help remembering that they are Earth and that it's fine to feel everything, they can listen to my songs.

Steven 
Yeah.

Perfect. Well, that's, I hope people do and I hope your music takes off and touches as wide an audience as possible. Cause I think it's a voice and it's a message that is desperately needed in the world right now. So thank you for your creativity. Thank you for putting your lyrics and your music out for us to appreciate and learn and grow and hopefully.

change our way of thinking about things. So thank you for all of that.

Leïla 
Thank

you for the best compliment ever saying that. That sounds like... hard to imagine.

Steven 
It's the truth. ⁓ I'm glad

it connected with you. That's my honest to goodness truth. That's what it meant to me. was like, wow, this is great. You're very welcome. It's what you put out there. I'm just giving it back to you. We end every episode, Leila, talking about hope.

Leïla 
Ha ha.

Steven 
yeah, obviously we've, we've talked a little bit about emotions and some of them are hard and uncomfortable. And in your new song, erosion is about that, that hardness and, and how, ⁓ it can, ⁓ change over time. ⁓ climate anxiety, know, the nationalism, there's a lot of stuff that has some hardness and difficulty associated with it in the, in the world these days. So I like to end every episode, asking my guests about hope and.

Hope not being a pink cloud emotion, hope being kind of a state of mind that ⁓ hope is this idea that we can have a vision for a better future. ⁓ There are some steps or a plan of action that we feel can help us get to that vision and that we have a sense of agency that there's something we can do about it. this is ⁓ kind of what defines hope. So I wanna ask you a few questions about hope.

and would encourage you not to think too long about it. Just kind of give your first, you know, kind of heartfelt response to the questions. ⁓ So the first question, Leïla, is what is your vision for a better future? It can be for you personally or professionally or for the world, but what's your vision for a better future?

Leïla 
Can I ask the timeframe?

Steven 
It is open to your interpretation. It can be tomorrow, it can be a thousand years from now, whatever, you know, it's, and there's no wrong answer. It's your answer.

Leïla 
Hey.

Okay. I think a future where people are less afraid of sticking to their values, despite the inconvenience of what that can mean for them ⁓ practically. And a future where we're not afraid of...

caring for each other and not just each other in a very narrow sense of community but understand again that we're a huge planetary community and that everyone and everything in the world exists in the same community and yeah a future where that's that's not frightening to open our hearts so much for

everyone to be able to fit there. ⁓

Steven 
that answer. Can you tell me why is that your vision for a better future?

Leïla
Because the other, the alternative doesn't make sense to me.

Steven 
Yeah, perfect.

So the last question then, Leïla, is imagine that future you just described, this future where our hearts are open to love the world as a community and see our interconnectedness and those fears of the other have dissipated and we're living in that world right now. How does that make you feel?

Leïla 
I wanted to say proud, but as soon as I thought that, I thought also vigilant. I think vigilant because I don't think it will ever be a one battle. ⁓ I think we'll always have to be vigilant about not falling back into our...

Steven 
⁓ Nice.

Leïla 
the wrong way of thinking of things.

Steven 
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

yeah. I'd love that. I've asked this question now 41 times. You're my 41st guest, and I don't think anybody's answered from that perspective yet. that's really eye-opening. I really appreciate that. ⁓ well, Leila, thank you so much.

Leïla 
Maybe that says

a lot about my pessimism.

Steven 
⁓

I think it is realism ⁓ touched in there as well. I think it's a beautiful answer. I I think that there's that idea of ⁓ appreciating the beauty of it, but also not wanting to backslide into ⁓ old ways. think that is certainly...

the spirit of your music as well. think getting us to think differently ⁓ and open up to the interconnectedness of it all so that we can not continue to follow these old paths. think that's being true to you is what that answer speaks to me. So wonderful. Well, Laila, thank you so much.

Leïla 
you

Steven 
for your time. Thank you so much for reaching out and introducing yourself to me and to your music. I'm grateful. I feel better because of this connection. And I'm incredibly honored to have you on my show. And I wish you all the best in all that you do in your music. I just want to be a big supporter of yours. And I just can't encourage you enough to keep doing what you're doing because the world

Leïla 
Thank you.

Steven 
The world needs your voice and the world needs your music and your ideas. So thank you for sharing them with me and sharing them with my audience. I appreciate you very much being here with me today.

Leïla 
Thank you so much, Steven. I had a really fun time too talking with you and ⁓ I really appreciate the message you try to convey with that podcast, just the name. So that's why I was like, yeah, I want to be on that because I think it's such an important, like it's the, what we need to do. The first thing we need to do is to change to...

expand the narratives that we have. yeah, I'm really honored to have been able to speak on your podcast and thank you for giving me that time and your support.

Steven
Yeah, I appreciate it. I'm glad my show's resonating with you as well, so that you captured kind of what I'm trying to put out there also, is let's change the narratives, let's tell better stories and move the world in a more sustainable direction for all of us. So, well, Laila, thank you so much. And I look forward to hearing Erosion when it comes out and all of the rest of the EP when it's released. So we'll stay in touch and stay connected. All right. Bye bye.

Leïla 
Yes.

All right.

Thank you.

Steven
What a beautiful and thought provoking conversation with Leïla Six. Today we explored how music born from a dream and nurtured through therapy can become a powerful tool for emotional processing and collective healing. Leïla shared how learning guitar further opened the door to her songwriting and how songs like River, Stateless and Erosion give voice to complex themes like nationalism, ecology, healing and compassion. We talked about embracing discomfort

honoring our full range of emotions and recognizing the deep interconnectedness between ourselves, each other, and the earth. Personally, I'm so grateful for Leïla's compassionate message. One that reminds us we don't need to hide from our emotions. In fact, our emotions are the very thing that connects us more deeply to the world around us. Now you might be asking yourself, why is a musician on stories sustain us? And here's why.

Artists have always played an essential role in social movements. They move ahead of the curve, expressing ideas, emotions, and truths that society may not yet be ready to face. Through their art, they invite us along. And that's exactly what Leila is doing. Her music doesn't just inspire. It challenges us to reflect on our values, on how we treat ourselves and each other, and on how we live in relationship with the planet.

Leïla's willingness to talk openly about her therapeutic journey and to share her awe, her joy, her fear, and her hope. That vulnerability is a gift. We talked about the full range of human emotions from comfortable emotions to the uncomfortable ones. The uncomfortable emotions like fear and anxiety are often discussed and seem to be very prevalent feelings in the world right now. Just turn on the news.

or go to social media and there's an endless stream of stories driving fear and anxiety about our politics, the climate, economies, and our own basic safety. Recognizing the emotions that are stirred up in us by these difficult stories is important. Equally important, however, is making room for emotions on the other end of the spectrum, which is why I so appreciated Leïla for also speaking about awe and joy.

reminds me of something the great Brene Brown writes in Atlas of the Heart.

And about joy, Brene says, joy is vulnerable. That's why we're afraid to let ourselves feel it. Don't squander joyful moments by waiting for the other shoe to drop. Lean in and practice gratitude. So with that, let me lean in and practice gratitude by expressing how much joy I experienced by speaking with Leïla today. Her music embraces that vulnerability and channels it into something truly transformative.

I want to thank Leïla for sharing her heart, her voice, and her vision with us. Her music is helping make the world a better, more compassionate place. And to everyone listening or watching, if you felt some joy today, and if today's episode moved you, please consider taking action. Support artists like Leïla who are using their gifts to drive change. Visit Leïla's website, listen to her music, share her songs, and support her musical journey however you can.

Allow her music to stir something in you. Let your emotions be a guide toward kindness, reflection, and meaningful connection. Maybe you'll start writing, creating, or reaching out to someone you've lost touch with, or simply spending some time in nature to remember who you are in the bigger picture of life. And if this episode resonated with you, please share it with someone else, like it, and follow the show. Your support is greatly appreciated.

And finally, please join me again for the next episode of Stories Sustain Us, which drops on May 13th. You won't want to miss it. I'll be talking to an extraordinary guest who is restoring the UK's native woodlands and showing how woodland restoration and expansion are building more resilient, connected communities. So be sure to catch the next episode of Stories Sustain Us on May 13th at StoriesSustainUs.com, wherever you listen to podcasts and on YouTube.

Thanks so much for being here today. Keep finding inspiration, keep making the world a better place. Until next time, I'm Steven Schauer. Please take care of yourself and each other. Take care.