How to Get the Most Out of Premed Shadowing [Episode 620]

What does it take to maximize your premed shadowing opportunity, and why does this experience matter so much in your application?

In this episode of Admissions Straight Talk, Dr. Valerie Wherley speaks with Dr. Rachel L. Schreiber, a board-certified allergist/immunologist and former president of the Greater Washington Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology Society. Recognized as a “Top Doctor” by Washingtonian magazine, Bethesda Magazine, and Washington Consumers’ Checkbook, Dr. Schreiber shares practical advice on finding shadowing opportunities, keeping a journal, and asking the right questions.

Additionally, Dr. Wherley and Dr. Schreiber address the nonnegotiable topic of patient confidentiality. From HIPAA requirements, to what you can safely write about in your application essays, to the risks of discussing patients on social media, the bottom line is this: you must conduct yourself with professionalism from the moment you walk in the clinic, including after you walk out. If you are preparing to apply to medical school, this episode will change how you think about every hour you spend shadowing.

0:00  Meet Dr. Rachel L. Schreiber

0:30  Finding and Securing Premed Shadowing Opportunities

3:14  The Real Purpose of Shadowing Before Med School

4:23  Why You Should Keep a Shadowing Journal

7:08  Asking Questions and Choosing Specialties

13:25  Patient Privacy and HIPAA

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Transcript

Dr. Valerie Wherley (00:38)
And Dr. Schreiber, would like to welcome you to the podcast.

Rachel Schreiber (00:41)
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (00:43)
You are welcome. And today we are talking about making the most out of a shadowing opportunity. So first, let's start with how can students find a shadowing opportunity? During COVID, shadowing was not allowed for safety reasons. And post-COVID, it seems as if pre-med students are still struggling to find physicians and clinics that will host these in-person experiences. So what advice do you give

regarding the best way to network and reach out.

Rachel Schreiber (01:13)
It is challenging. And I know that because sometimes students will email me and they'll ask if they can shadow. And it's hard for me because there's only so many hours in the day. So I can't say yes to everyone, although I try to. I try to help people because I know that the kids need the experience and they need students need the experience. They need the time with the physicians and they need it for their applications and for their personal growth. So you need it for both reasons.

I would just say cast a really wide net. You can reach out to your own doctors. You can reach out to your parents' doctors. Even if you're, you know, your friend's parents and your parents' friends, I just think wide net for this because it is challenging. And I think be persistent. You know, if you write someone and they don't write you back right away, it's okay to ping them again. Just say, hey, send a little tickler about that because people are busy and they do forget and...

you know, it's okay to send a little reminder and ask again. The other thing is there are probably some resources like at some of the universities. So for example, I know that University of Maryland has a program where you can apply for their shadow program and they have a list of docs that, you know, they'll pair you with. So that's another option. And then another option is some of the hospitals, some of the local hospitals have volunteer programs.

And within those volunteer programs, they may have shadowing opportunities. So, you know, as with so many things in life, sometimes one thing can lead to another. If you're volunteering, if you're out there, you're meeting people, all those things can help you just widen your network.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (02:48)
Right. All really great advice. Follow-up question. Is it appropriate to write to an office manager or a clinic manager, or should students be reaching out directly to a physician?

Rachel Schreiber (03:01)
I think that many offices now, they're bigger, they're consolidated, and you may actually have to write to the office manager. It's always nice if you can write directly to the physician, I think, but I'm not sure that that's realistic for many offices. And that's a little harder, right? Because then you have another layer of someone to go through, but that office manager may be...

the person you have to go through. In other words, if you're cold writing, then you just have to sort of follow whatever that office procedure is. So you may have to go through the office manager. And I would just say, be persistent. Don't go overboard, but it's okay to email again in a few weeks, or even in a week, just to say, hey, did you get my email? Just following up.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (03:52)
Right. Agreed. Okay. Moving on. In your opinion, what is the real purpose of shadowing?

Rachel Schreiber (03:53)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I think there's a couple of purposes. So number one, you can see a day in the life, right? You come, you see what it's like for us to interact with our patients, what it's like with our workflow, the different kinds of issues that we're dealing with throughout the day. And I always think a shadow has an interesting perspective because you're very objective as a shadow, right? You understand it as a patient. You are seeing how the doctor interacts with the patient. And I always find that, you know,

kind of interesting, like what does my shadow really think? Like is this, how valuable is this? I like it, of course, for it to be worth their time. Everyone's time is precious, so of course I want them to feel like it's worth their time also. But I think, you know, things that we hope they get out of it is seeing what it's like really in the trenches daily for what it's like when you're a physician treating patient and going from room to room and.

dealing with phone calls and dealing with other things that could be going on in the office. These are all things that are really like the day in the life of a physician.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (05:01)
So very important. So when I work with students and work with pre-med students and talk to them about shadowing, I encourage them to make it an active process. Not as if they're actively doing something in the room, but I want them to have as many takeaways as possible. And one of the things I typically recommend is for students to keep a journal. To have a record of number one, what they saw,

Rachel Schreiber (05:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (05:30)
and number two, what they heard, and number three, maybe most important, what they learned. And I was wondering what your thoughts are on this and if you would add anything to that recommendation.

Rachel Schreiber (05:35)
Yeah.

You know, I love that idea and I think it's really, really important for a couple reasons. Number one, just for your own personal growth, for you, for the students to remember what they saw, what they heard, what they learned. Number two, the reality of the medical school application, which is, you know, a thorough and complicated potentially process is that you will be writing about these experiences. You will need these experiences. You're going to be writing about them.

what kinds of things did you learn? Like this is, it's gonna be part of that process. And so I think if you see something interesting or you see an interaction that really meant something to you, it's good to write it down because of course people forget things as time goes on. So you wanna write that down because you could use that later on in the application process. Listen, shadowing can be passive.

Right? It is a passive activity. And so in order for you to make it as active and as interesting as possible, I think writing it down and trying to recollect how that day was helpful for you will be helpful for you in the future. So I really do think those suggestions are very, very important. Yeah.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (06:50)
Great.

And one thing for people who might be listening to this to remember is you may shadow a physician when you are a first year undergrad and then submit your application during your gap year after you've graduated. So that's a four to a five year time gap. And when you have to recall some of these stories for your primary application or your secondary application,

Rachel Schreiber (07:10)
Yep.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (07:16)
those stories can get a little fuzzy. So to have this record can be so helpful when you're thinking of something specific and meaningful that happened during that shadowing opportunity.

Rachel Schreiber (07:26)
Absolutely,

even if it's a quote that you hear a quote from a patient a quote from a doctor like write that down use it in the future Yeah, yeah

Dr. Valerie Wherley (07:33)
Yeah, absolutely. Okay,

here's a big ⁓ important question. Should students ask questions during the shadowing experience to either the supervising physician or the patients in the room?

Rachel Schreiber (07:46)
Okay.

That's a tough one. I think, let's just take this theoretical situation. Let's say the student asks a question. It may not be something that the doctor wants to address in front of the patient. It may not be appropriate at the time. I think probably a better time. First of you have to read the room. Okay, like you have to read the room a little bit. I think that is something you can ask the physician if it's okay to do.

I have a question for you. How are you, are you generally advising students to to ask questions?

Dr. Valerie Wherley (08:18)
Typically not, or I advise a student to ask that in advance. Sort of what professional demeanor would you like me to have in the room? Am I quiet? Am I just observing? Or will there be an opportunity maybe during the lunch hour to ask questions? Or maybe at 5 PM, do I have 10 minutes to ask questions?

Rachel Schreiber (08:20)
Right.

Yeah.

I think that's totally appropriate. The best thing to do would be to check with the doctor because everyone's different with that regard. But I think in terms of professionalism and in terms of just making the most of it, most of your time, I think it would make sense to observe.

actively observing, right? And then if you have questions, actually bring in a notepad and like write down your questions. And then when you're out of the room, you can ask the doctor the questions. I do like it when my students ask me questions because it feels like they're paying attention. I'm like, okay, good question, you know, and there's no bad question. We don't expect anything. I'm not evaluating you, right? Like

Dr. Valerie Wherley (09:09)
Right?

Rachel Schreiber (09:17)
I don't expect really anything, but for you to, if you ask to come to my office, that you're engaged and you're interested and it's okay to ask me questions, but I think the better thing to do honestly probably would be when we're not in the room.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (09:30)
Right. Okay. Great.

And is, in your opinion, is there an ideal time for students to start a shadowing experience? Do you think it's high school? Do you think it's early undergrad, late undergrad? What do you think?

Rachel Schreiber (09:42)
I really, to be totally honest, I do get requests for high school students. I prefer college students. And the reason is that there is truly a need for the college students to have shadowing hours. There's not that need when you're in high school. When you're applying to medical school, they're not asking you what you did in high school, right? Now it may help your personal growth, but also from the standpoint of...

time is limited, I can only take so many shadows. I do want to concentrate on those kids who really need the time for shadowing now. And I think it's okay to start shadowing freshman year. think that may be more, I would encourage people to do that. And the reason is, is because you do need a lot of shadowing hours. Life is busy, you're busy in school, you're busy with extracurriculars, you may have...

summer jobs, you mean I have time to shadow. So spreading that out over the few years, think is totally reasonable. Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (10:35)
Yeah, absolutely.

Let's talk about shadowing one specialty versus shadowing a variety of specialty areas. I've worked with a client before who as a pre-med student seemed to know they were going to be a surgeon before they even started medical school. So the only specialty shadows they had done were surgical specialties.

Rachel Schreiber (10:46)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (11:03)
and they had just shadowed a lot of surgical specialties. Do you think that is short-sighted? Do you think there's an advantage to shadowing different specialty areas?

Rachel Schreiber (11:13)
I do. I think you should shadow a wide range if you can. Again, it's not always possible. get that. I think a lot of people got that. But I think it shows general interest in medicine if you are willing to put yourself out there and look at different specialties. Look at, listen, when you're a surgeon, or actually let's take it a step back.

When you're in medical school, you are going to rotate through all these different specialties, right? You're going to do internal medicine and pediatrics and OB-GYN and psychiatry and whatever else and surgery, of course. But so to have that background going in, I think will only serve to help you and make you a better physician in the future. It is good to see these different specialties. And even when you think I am so committed to this is the only thing I want to do, things can change.

They can, they can, they don't always, but they can. And I think it's important to see how different physicians approach different kinds of problems. So I do think it is very valuable to sort of, to look widely. Yeah.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (12:20)
Absolutely. Right. When I worked

at the medical school where I worked, this is one of my favorite stories. I talked with a year three student embarking on clinicals and they were very sure that they were going to go into surgery. And then we talked at the end of the year, right before they were going to head into year four. And they said, I've decided on OB-GYN.

Rachel Schreiber (12:25)
Yeah.

right.

Right.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (12:47)
Yeah, I said,

Rachel Schreiber (12:47)
Exactly.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (12:49)
talk me through that process. And they said, well, what I love about OB-GYN is the continuity of care. And there is some surgical aspect to that practice. So I love that there's some surgery, but I love the longitudinal care that OB-GYN has that I hadn't thought about before. All I knew was surgery. So sometimes it does take the exposure

Rachel Schreiber (12:56)
Yeah.

there's surgery.

Right.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (13:16)
to different specialty areas that you didn't even know about for that light bulb moment to go off.

Rachel Schreiber (13:21)
Of course, of course. And sometimes people have light bulbs and sometimes it's just, it's a process. And sometimes you, I've realized that in my experiences, when you go through experiences, everything sort of builds on each other. And you may have an experience that you think, ⁓ I don't know if that was that helpful to me. But when you look back on it, there's something that did actually help. And maybe you met someone who you didn't.

you wouldn't have otherwise met, you know what I mean? Like I would just say, just keep a really positive out view whenever you're with, whenever, with whatever you're doing, because there can be some positive growth factor that happens from that experience.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (14:02)
Sure, absolutely. My final question is this. We end on a little bit of a serious note. And can you talk about the importance of patient privacy and confidentiality as it pertains to students during a shadowing experience?

Rachel Schreiber (14:17)
Well, obviously it's so important. And I think that in certain programs, like if you do find a program to shadow with through a medical school or through a volunteer program, you may even have to take a HIPAA class. Like some of those programs actually have you do that. Obviously that's our job to maintain HIPAA. So if a physician is inviting you into their office to see patients with them, that is your job as well.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (14:27)
Mm.

Rachel Schreiber (14:42)
that's extremely important that you are maintaining that patient confidentiality because it's our job and then by inviting you in, that's your job too. Yeah.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (14:55)
Absolutely. And

it starts the minute you leave the clinic or the office. So you're not posting on social media. Even in the journal that I talked about earlier, if you do talk about a patient, you're either using a pronoun or you're making the name anonymous. And then when you write about the experience in a primary or secondary application, it's the same thing. So you're certainly not making a patient recognizable. It's just...

Rachel Schreiber (15:11)
Yeah.

of course. ⁓

Dr. Valerie Wherley (15:21)
critically important, even if you go home that evening and you say to mom and dad or whoever's in your home, hey, I saw something really interesting today. It's got to be absolutely non-recognizable to maintain that confidentiality.

Rachel Schreiber (15:29)
Hmm.

100%. 100%.

And speaking of social media, obviously that's very important. And if you are thinking of posting anything about that doctor or about that office, like you have to check with that physician if that's okay. know? Yeah.

Dr. Valerie Wherley (15:47)
Yeah, absolutely.

Well, thank you so much for your time. I do know several students who have shadowed with you, and the experience has been incredible. You're so gracious with your time. And thank you for sharing your insight about how students can maximize their shadowing opportunity.

Admissions Straight Talk (16:05)
Thank you for listening. Please be sure to check our show notes to learn more information about Dr. Schreiber. If you enjoyed this episode, please share, rate, and subscribe to the podcast. We'll be back soon with more conversations to help you get accepted.