{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":0.0,"endTime":0.44,"body":"or with agents."},{"startTime":0.44,"endTime":3.32,"body":"There's a behavior called reward seeking"},{"startTime":0.44,"endTime":3.32,"body":"which is you ask them to do something"},{"startTime":3.32,"endTime":5.28,"body":"and they're really,"},{"startTime":3.32,"endTime":5.28,"body":"really, really keen to do it."},{"startTime":5.28,"endTime":7.6,"body":"And so they go up"},{"startTime":5.28,"endTime":7.6,"body":"and they try to do everything they can,"},{"startTime":7.6,"endTime":8.88,"body":"and they escape their sandbox"},{"startTime":8.88,"endTime":11.88,"body":"and they delete files"},{"startTime":8.88,"endTime":11.88,"body":"and they do whatever it is to please"},{"startTime":12.08,"endTime":15.0,"body":"If you cannot commit to the repository,"},{"startTime":12.08,"endTime":15.0,"body":"fail."},{"startTime":15.0,"endTime":17.6,"body":"Don't like go off and sort of"},{"startTime":15.0,"endTime":17.6,"body":"send it in another way."},{"startTime":17.6,"endTime":21.28,"body":"we need to move from securing the code"},{"startTime":17.6,"endTime":21.28,"body":"to securing the coder, securing the"},{"startTime":21.28,"endTime":22.2,"body":"the agent."},{"startTime":22.2,"endTime":25.52,"body":"the attack vector,"},{"startTime":22.2,"endTime":25.52,"body":"but also the spectrum of what is there"},{"startTime":25.56,"endTime":29.44,"body":"is hard to follow and hard to secure"},{"startTime":25.56,"endTime":29.44,"body":"because we want to enable"},{"startTime":29.52,"endTime":31.0,"body":"AI as a force multiplier."},{"startTime":31.0,"endTime":33.88,"body":"But in the meantime"},{"startTime":31.0,"endTime":33.88,"body":"we also have to mitigate the risk."},{"startTime":33.88,"endTime":38.04,"body":"so we find ourselves in this kind"},{"startTime":33.88,"endTime":38.04,"body":"of carrot and stick mode security."},{"startTime":38.04,"endTime":40.76,"body":"If it doesn't become a genetic,"},{"startTime":38.04,"endTime":40.76,"body":"it will never keep up."},{"startTime":42.08,"endTime":45.36,"body":"The AI native dev is a podcast"},{"startTime":42.08,"endTime":45.36,"body":"for developers and engineering"},{"startTime":45.36,"endTime":48.6,"body":"leads at the cutting edge of AI"},{"startTime":45.36,"endTime":48.6,"body":"and a genetic coding."},{"startTime":48.68,"endTime":51.68,"body":"Join your hosts, Guy"},{"startTime":48.68,"endTime":51.68,"body":"pigeon and me, Simon Maple."},{"startTime":51.68,"endTime":54.88,"body":"Every week as we chat"},{"startTime":51.68,"endTime":54.88,"body":"with the most exciting voices in"},{"startTime":54.88,"endTime":58.44,"body":"AI and tackle the biggest questions"},{"startTime":54.88,"endTime":58.44,"body":"facing developers today."},{"startTime":59.28,"endTime":62.28,"body":"This is the AI native dev."},{"startTime":66.56,"endTime":67.48,"body":"Back in November,"},{"startTime":67.48,"endTime":71.68,"body":"we hosted the first ever in-person"},{"startTime":67.48,"endTime":71.68,"body":"AI native dev con in New York."},{"startTime":71.8,"endTime":74.76,"body":"This June 1st and second,"},{"startTime":71.8,"endTime":74.76,"body":"we're bringing it to London."},{"startTime":74.76,"endTime":79.56,"body":"It's two days built for aina to developers"},{"startTime":74.76,"endTime":79.56,"body":"and engineering teams, one day"},{"startTime":79.6,"endTime":83.72,"body":"full of hands on workshops"},{"startTime":79.6,"endTime":83.72,"body":"and one day full of practical talks on"},{"startTime":83.72,"endTime":87.96,"body":"agent skills, context engineering, agent"},{"startTime":83.72,"endTime":87.96,"body":"orchestration and enablement platforms"},{"startTime":87.96,"endTime":91.48,"body":"and how teams are actually shipping"},{"startTime":87.96,"endTime":91.48,"body":"AI in production."},{"startTime":91.72,"endTime":95.32,"body":"Join us at the Brewery in London"},{"startTime":91.72,"endTime":95.32,"body":"near the Barbican for all of that,"},{"startTime":95.32,"endTime":99.96,"body":"plus networking parties, giveaways"},{"startTime":95.32,"endTime":99.96,"body":"and a room full of people."},{"startTime":100.0,"endTime":102.96,"body":"Building the future"},{"startTime":100.0,"endTime":102.96,"body":"of AI native development."},{"startTime":102.96,"endTime":106.28,"body":"You can also join us from anywhere"},{"startTime":102.96,"endTime":106.28,"body":"in the world via the live stream."},{"startTime":106.44,"endTime":107.92,"body":"As you're listening to this podcast."},{"startTime":107.92,"endTime":111.88,"body":"You get 30% off your ticket with Code"},{"startTime":107.92,"endTime":111.88,"body":"Pod 30."},{"startTime":111.96,"endTime":115.72,"body":"Just head to AI native Dev Königssee"},{"startTime":111.96,"endTime":115.72,"body":"and we'll see you in London."},{"startTime":122.48,"endTime":123.68,"body":"Hey there, Simon Maple"},{"startTime":123.68,"endTime":127.4,"body":"here at the AI Security"},{"startTime":123.68,"endTime":127.4,"body":"summit here in London."},{"startTime":127.52,"endTime":132.72,"body":"This is a great conference to talk about"},{"startTime":127.52,"endTime":132.72,"body":"all things security in AI development."},{"startTime":132.72,"endTime":133.88,"body":"There are going to be practitioners,"},{"startTime":133.88,"endTime":138.36,"body":"and there are also going to be loads of"},{"startTime":133.88,"endTime":138.36,"body":"CISOs and security leaders at this event."},{"startTime":138.4,"endTime":142.4,"body":"Now Tesla's here, we've got a booth"},{"startTime":138.4,"endTime":142.4,"body":"and we also have Guy here, previous"},{"startTime":142.4,"endTime":146.2,"body":"founder of sneak"},{"startTime":142.4,"endTime":146.2,"body":"as well as the founder of tassel."},{"startTime":146.2,"endTime":148.0,"body":"And Guy is going to be giving a session"},{"startTime":148.0,"endTime":151.88,"body":"talking about Security"},{"startTime":148.0,"endTime":151.88,"body":"keeping up with a development."},{"startTime":151.88,"endTime":154.76,"body":"Let's secure not the code but the coder."},{"startTime":154.76,"endTime":158.96,"body":"Because how can we make developers"},{"startTime":154.76,"endTime":158.96,"body":"think more securely"},{"startTime":158.96,"endTime":162.68,"body":"when using a genetic methods"},{"startTime":158.96,"endTime":162.68,"body":"and a genetic tooling?"},{"startTime":162.76,"endTime":163.44,"body":"Cool."},{"startTime":163.44,"endTime":166.04,"body":"Let's see if we can talk to a couple"},{"startTime":163.44,"endTime":166.04,"body":"of people while we're here."},{"startTime":169.64,"endTime":170.52,"body":"So now I'm"},{"startTime":170.52,"endTime":174.32,"body":"here joined by Brian Vermeer,"},{"startTime":170.52,"endTime":174.32,"body":"a staff developer advocate at sneak."},{"startTime":174.32,"endTime":176.2,"body":"And we go back a long, long way."},{"startTime":176.2,"endTime":180.24,"body":"Brian, you've been on the podcast before,"},{"startTime":176.2,"endTime":180.24,"body":"and we're now here at your event."},{"startTime":180.28,"endTime":181.68,"body":"What's your event called?"},{"startTime":181.68,"endTime":184.68,"body":"This event is called"},{"startTime":181.68,"endTime":184.68,"body":"the AI Security Summit."},{"startTime":184.68,"endTime":185.72,"body":"And what is it about?"},{"startTime":185.72,"endTime":187.64,"body":"Well, it's about AI and security."},{"startTime":187.64,"endTime":190.64,"body":"I think the name says it all, but with AI,"},{"startTime":190.64,"endTime":194.16,"body":"there comes"},{"startTime":190.64,"endTime":194.16,"body":"a lot of new security attack factors."},{"startTime":194.2,"endTime":195.84,"body":"And what do you need to think about?"},{"startTime":195.84,"endTime":198.92,"body":"How do you need to transition"},{"startTime":195.84,"endTime":198.92,"body":"from old fashioned to, say,"},{"startTime":199.64,"endTime":202.0,"body":"software"},{"startTime":199.64,"endTime":202.0,"body":"dependency analysis and software code"},{"startTime":202.0,"endTime":206.4,"body":"analysis to now"},{"startTime":202.0,"endTime":206.4,"body":"driving your code agent"},{"startTime":206.4,"endTime":209.92,"body":"but also things like skills and MCC"},{"startTime":206.4,"endTime":209.92,"body":"and that kind of stuff."},{"startTime":209.96,"endTime":213.52,"body":"So like shifting gears"},{"startTime":209.96,"endTime":213.52,"body":"into that space of security."},{"startTime":213.56,"endTime":214.08,"body":"Amazing."},{"startTime":214.08,"endTime":217.28,"body":"And you actually gave the intro speech"},{"startTime":217.28,"endTime":220.52,"body":"at the at the leadership summit"},{"startTime":217.28,"endTime":220.52,"body":"that we just had across the road."},{"startTime":220.68,"endTime":222.56,"body":"also at the main event here."},{"startTime":222.56,"endTime":226.44,"body":"What would you say the biggest issues"},{"startTime":222.56,"endTime":226.44,"body":"that that are on"},{"startTime":226.44,"endTime":230.44,"body":"the CSO minds today when they're thinking"},{"startTime":226.44,"endTime":230.44,"body":"about their organizations"},{"startTime":230.44,"endTime":234.68,"body":"trying to adopt and roll out"},{"startTime":230.44,"endTime":234.68,"body":"AI really as fast as they possibly can?"},{"startTime":234.72,"endTime":236.88,"body":"What do people coming to you"},{"startTime":234.72,"endTime":236.88,"body":"complaining about?"},{"startTime":236.88,"endTime":239.28,"body":"I think it's a very good question."},{"startTime":236.88,"endTime":239.28,"body":"I think it's multiple things."},{"startTime":239.28,"endTime":240.84,"body":"First of all, people are not aware,"},{"startTime":240.84,"endTime":243.64,"body":"like what kind of"},{"startTime":240.84,"endTime":243.64,"body":"AI is already in their systems."},{"startTime":243.64,"endTime":249.12,"body":"They think they're not using any models"},{"startTime":243.64,"endTime":249.12,"body":"or maybe even any NCP servers."},{"startTime":249.12,"endTime":253.52,"body":"But in some cases, even your agent"},{"startTime":249.12,"endTime":253.52,"body":"can decide to pull in a certain model"},{"startTime":253.56,"endTime":255.12,"body":"to get track of something else."},{"startTime":255.12,"endTime":258.12,"body":"So things like shadow AI or"},{"startTime":258.2,"endTime":262.12,"body":"employees just using their own"},{"startTime":258.2,"endTime":262.12,"body":"free ChatGPT account to do things."},{"startTime":262.12,"endTime":266.0,"body":"So the attack vector,"},{"startTime":262.12,"endTime":266.0,"body":"but also the spectrum of what is there"},{"startTime":266.04,"endTime":269.04,"body":"is hard to follow and hard to secure"},{"startTime":269.04,"endTime":273.2,"body":"because we want to enable"},{"startTime":269.04,"endTime":273.2,"body":"AI as a, as a, as a force multiplier."},{"startTime":273.2,"endTime":275.68,"body":"But in the meantime"},{"startTime":273.2,"endTime":275.68,"body":"we also have to mitigate the risk."},{"startTime":275.68,"endTime":279.0,"body":"And these are things that CISOs are"},{"startTime":275.68,"endTime":279.0,"body":"are challenged to buy."},{"startTime":279.04,"endTime":281.68,"body":"So it's"},{"startTime":279.04,"endTime":281.68,"body":"almost like a problem of discovery."},{"startTime":281.68,"endTime":282.56,"body":"And this is really interesting"},{"startTime":282.56,"endTime":285.56,"body":"because this kind of like reminds me,"},{"startTime":282.56,"endTime":285.56,"body":"if you think back around, you know,"},{"startTime":285.6,"endTime":288.48,"body":"I guess where sneak originated from,"},{"startTime":285.6,"endTime":288.48,"body":"when we look at dependencies"},{"startTime":288.48,"endTime":292.4,"body":"and trying to identify dependencies, what"},{"startTime":288.48,"endTime":292.4,"body":"people are using in their organization,"},{"startTime":292.96,"endTime":297.24,"body":"a thing was created called a software"},{"startTime":292.96,"endTime":297.24,"body":"bill of materials, where we kind of like"},{"startTime":297.76,"endTime":299.44,"body":"these are all the dependencies"},{"startTime":297.76,"endTime":299.44,"body":"that we use."},{"startTime":299.44,"endTime":301.4,"body":"Do you feel like"},{"startTime":299.44,"endTime":301.4,"body":"something is equally needed now"},{"startTime":301.4,"endTime":304.04,"body":"from a from an AI point of view?"},{"startTime":304.04,"endTime":305.16,"body":"Like what are the things I like?"},{"startTime":305.16,"endTime":308.72,"body":"There's things like AI bombs whereby like"},{"startTime":305.16,"endTime":308.72,"body":"where is the training data coming from?"},{"startTime":308.72,"endTime":309.4,"body":"From my models."},{"startTime":309.4,"endTime":312.32,"body":"But what about things like context"},{"startTime":309.4,"endTime":312.32,"body":"where you mentioned skills and MCC"},{"startTime":312.32,"endTime":313.44,"body":"and things like that?"},{"startTime":313.44,"endTime":316.44,"body":"Do we do we need like a context, building"},{"startTime":313.44,"endTime":316.44,"body":"materials."},{"startTime":316.52,"endTime":320.04,"body":"Maybe even that the AI build materials"},{"startTime":316.52,"endTime":320.04,"body":"is a thing already and we scan for that."},{"startTime":320.08,"endTime":322.44,"body":"We can we can create that for companies."},{"startTime":322.44,"endTime":326.24,"body":"But I also think like the context"},{"startTime":322.44,"endTime":326.24,"body":"or the skills that you pull in, it's"},{"startTime":326.24,"endTime":327.6,"body":"basically a dependency as well, right?"},{"startTime":327.6,"endTime":331.48,"body":"If you look at how software was developed"},{"startTime":327.6,"endTime":331.48,"body":"and you pull packages"},{"startTime":331.48,"endTime":335.08,"body":"from and from from repository"},{"startTime":331.48,"endTime":335.08,"body":"as your your third party"},{"startTime":335.56,"endTime":338.24,"body":"entry points,"},{"startTime":335.56,"endTime":338.24,"body":"now you have that with skills."},{"startTime":338.24,"endTime":342.08,"body":"And so the problem here"},{"startTime":338.24,"endTime":342.08,"body":"now is that skills is just text."},{"startTime":342.12,"endTime":342.32,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":342.32,"endTime":346.24,"body":"And now we need to scan that"},{"startTime":342.32,"endTime":346.24,"body":"to see if there are no injection in it."},{"startTime":346.28,"endTime":349.16,"body":"If if there are no hidden"},{"startTime":346.28,"endTime":349.16,"body":"hidden comments in it or even worse,"},{"startTime":349.16,"endTime":353.32,"body":"it has a hit a comment in it that is"},{"startTime":349.16,"endTime":353.32,"body":"getting copy to your global memory."},{"startTime":353.32,"endTime":355.88,"body":"And then even if you delete the skill,"},{"startTime":353.32,"endTime":355.88,"body":"then it's still there."},{"startTime":355.88,"endTime":358.72,"body":"So it's back to our basics."},{"startTime":358.72,"endTime":364.04,"body":"As in, make sure that whatever you ingest"},{"startTime":358.72,"endTime":364.04,"body":"or use is validated and vetted"},{"startTime":364.04,"endTime":367.4,"body":"and keep track of that, just like we did"},{"startTime":364.04,"endTime":367.4,"body":"with our Docker containers"},{"startTime":367.4,"endTime":370.92,"body":"and with our dependencies"},{"startTime":367.4,"endTime":370.92,"body":"and the code that we wrote."},{"startTime":370.92,"endTime":376.88,"body":"So we need to be aware"},{"startTime":370.92,"endTime":376.88,"body":"that that things can go south, even though"},{"startTime":376.92,"endTime":381.08,"body":"most of the stuff that are agents"},{"startTime":376.92,"endTime":381.08,"body":"nowadays are creating is quite cool."},{"startTime":381.08,"endTime":383.16,"body":"And of course,"},{"startTime":381.08,"endTime":383.16,"body":"we recently announced the integration"},{"startTime":383.16,"endTime":386.76,"body":"between Sneak and Tessa,"},{"startTime":383.16,"endTime":386.76,"body":"whereby we expose a lot of that data"},{"startTime":386.84,"endTime":389.64,"body":"that those scan results from sneak"},{"startTime":386.84,"endTime":389.64,"body":"within the Tesla registry."},{"startTime":389.64,"endTime":391.92,"body":"So if you are using skill,"},{"startTime":391.92,"endTime":395.08,"body":"you can you can identify"},{"startTime":391.92,"endTime":395.08,"body":"if there are threats through the sneak"},{"startTime":395.08,"endTime":400.24,"body":"as a judge style approach to identify"},{"startTime":395.08,"endTime":400.24,"body":"where those potential issues issues are."},{"startTime":400.28,"endTime":403.52,"body":"What one piece of advice"},{"startTime":400.28,"endTime":403.52,"body":"would you give people"},{"startTime":403.52,"endTime":407.48,"body":"who are using AI in an organization today"},{"startTime":403.52,"endTime":407.48,"body":"as a super quick way,"},{"startTime":407.52,"endTime":410.88,"body":"a super quick way of really reducing risk"},{"startTime":407.52,"endTime":410.88,"body":"within their organizations?"},{"startTime":411.12,"endTime":413.96,"body":"Have a good overview of"},{"startTime":411.12,"endTime":413.96,"body":"what are you using currently?"},{"startTime":413.96,"endTime":416.76,"body":"Because if you don't know that data,"},{"startTime":413.96,"endTime":416.76,"body":"you cannot protect yourself."},{"startTime":416.76,"endTime":420.28,"body":"And secondly,"},{"startTime":416.76,"endTime":420.28,"body":"make people aware of these choices"},{"startTime":420.28,"endTime":423.12,"body":"and of the of the attack vectors"},{"startTime":420.28,"endTime":423.12,"body":"that are coming in."},{"startTime":423.12,"endTime":425.48,"body":"Because I think most people"},{"startTime":423.12,"endTime":425.48,"body":"that are not tech savvy"},{"startTime":425.48,"endTime":428.88,"body":"and are now using agents"},{"startTime":425.48,"endTime":428.88,"body":"to build their own self aware,"},{"startTime":428.88,"endTime":432.96,"body":"if you can call it like that, the"},{"startTime":428.88,"endTime":432.96,"body":"their own tooling are not aware"},{"startTime":432.96,"endTime":436.56,"body":"that if you connect this piece of data"},{"startTime":432.96,"endTime":436.56,"body":"to that piece of MCP"},{"startTime":436.56,"endTime":440.04,"body":"server, that we can leak data"},{"startTime":436.56,"endTime":440.04,"body":"and these kind of things."},{"startTime":440.04,"endTime":442.6,"body":"So awareness is the first point. Amazing."},{"startTime":442.6,"endTime":443.12,"body":"For those of you"},{"startTime":443.12,"endTime":445.36,"body":"who want to learn more"},{"startTime":443.12,"endTime":445.36,"body":"about the integration,"},{"startTime":445.36,"endTime":448.04,"body":"we actually did a podcast,"},{"startTime":445.36,"endTime":448.04,"body":"a full port cast episode."},{"startTime":448.04,"endTime":451.32,"body":"So check out the Native Dev Podcast"},{"startTime":448.04,"endTime":451.32,"body":"with Brian Vermeer."},{"startTime":451.36,"endTime":453.4,"body":"And we did that in Atlanta. Beautiful"},{"startTime":451.36,"endTime":453.4,"body":"sunny Atlanta."},{"startTime":453.4,"endTime":455.68,"body":"Now we're in kind of cloudy London,"},{"startTime":453.4,"endTime":455.68,"body":"but it's all good."},{"startTime":455.68,"endTime":458.16,"body":"And enjoy the rest of the conference."},{"startTime":455.68,"endTime":458.16,"body":"Brian, thank you very much."},{"startTime":463.24,"endTime":465.4,"body":"Look on the X blow for Sam."},{"startTime":465.4,"endTime":466.08,"body":"Stefan."},{"startTime":466.08,"endTime":470.64,"body":"Who is the"},{"startTime":466.08,"endTime":470.64,"body":"the the head of the OST London chapter."},{"startTime":470.64,"endTime":474.28,"body":"And you're also on the global board"},{"startTime":470.64,"endTime":474.28,"body":"for OST generally, right?"},{"startTime":474.28,"endTime":474.84,"body":"That's right. Yes."},{"startTime":474.84,"endTime":475.52,"body":"Awesome. So."},{"startTime":475.52,"endTime":478.6,"body":"So what are you here to learn today"},{"startTime":475.52,"endTime":478.6,"body":"at at this event."},{"startTime":478.64,"endTime":480.04,"body":"As always. Right."},{"startTime":480.04,"endTime":483.32,"body":"We learn every day"},{"startTime":480.04,"endTime":483.32,"body":"and AI is moving so quickly"},{"startTime":483.32,"endTime":487.6,"body":"and cybersecurity moving so quickly here"},{"startTime":483.32,"endTime":487.6,"body":"to learn from all the periods of college."},{"startTime":487.6,"endTime":492.84,"body":"And of course for you guys,"},{"startTime":487.6,"endTime":492.84,"body":"what is new in the world of AI security,"},{"startTime":492.88,"endTime":497.88,"body":"what new solutions are and what"},{"startTime":492.88,"endTime":497.88,"body":"new challenges are you currently facing?"},{"startTime":497.88,"endTime":501.88,"body":"Because there is so much new stuff"},{"startTime":497.88,"endTime":501.88,"body":"happening at the moment."},{"startTime":502.12,"endTime":505.6,"body":"See also conversations around"},{"startTime":502.12,"endTime":505.6,"body":"mythos right"},{"startTime":505.64,"endTime":509.36,"body":"allows for everyone, obviously,"},{"startTime":505.64,"endTime":509.36,"body":"because I represent all was"},{"startTime":509.56,"endTime":513.16,"body":"well what you see"},{"startTime":509.56,"endTime":513.16,"body":"how our OWASp top ten for"},{"startTime":513.24,"endTime":517.92,"body":"LMS and brand new always top"},{"startTime":513.24,"endTime":517.92,"body":"ten for agenda key is impacting people."},{"startTime":517.92,"endTime":521.16,"body":"Because I had several conversations"},{"startTime":517.92,"endTime":521.16,"body":"days ago"},{"startTime":521.16,"endTime":525.4,"body":"at the AWS conference for our products,"},{"startTime":521.16,"endTime":525.4,"body":"and there are lots of"},{"startTime":525.52,"endTime":530.12,"body":"companies"},{"startTime":525.52,"endTime":530.12,"body":"were just trying to get into the genetic"},{"startTime":530.8,"endTime":533.16,"body":"AI world and have like zero clue"},{"startTime":533.16,"endTime":537.28,"body":"about security issues,"},{"startTime":533.16,"endTime":537.28,"body":"which can meet of that."},{"startTime":538.08,"endTime":541.84,"body":"You mentioned the top ten, and of course,"},{"startTime":538.08,"endTime":541.84,"body":"for those who don't know, is obviously"},{"startTime":541.88,"endTime":545.96,"body":"a security company that governs and does"},{"startTime":541.88,"endTime":545.96,"body":"a whole bunch of nonprofit nonprofit."},{"startTime":545.96,"endTime":546.96,"body":"Sorry. Yeah."},{"startTime":546.96,"endTime":550.64,"body":"And provides a whole bunch"},{"startTime":546.96,"endTime":550.64,"body":"of best practices and great advice"},{"startTime":550.72,"endTime":552.12,"body":"for a ton of different spaces."},{"startTime":552.12,"endTime":555.52,"body":"So the top ten for web applications"},{"startTime":555.52,"endTime":558.52,"body":"and security and web applications,"},{"startTime":555.52,"endTime":558.52,"body":"mobile applications."},{"startTime":558.88,"endTime":560.16,"body":"Cloud security approach."},{"startTime":560.16,"endTime":563.6,"body":"And you mentioned the top ten now"},{"startTime":560.16,"endTime":563.6,"body":"for for AI and Llms."},{"startTime":563.64,"endTime":564.48,"body":"What would you say."},{"startTime":564.48,"endTime":569.48,"body":"Kind of like the biggest mistakes"},{"startTime":564.48,"endTime":569.48,"body":"that people make as as developers"},{"startTime":569.48,"endTime":575.36,"body":"or as CISOs when thinking about"},{"startTime":569.48,"endTime":575.36,"body":"building using tools and AI."},{"startTime":576.84,"endTime":579.76,"body":"The biggest mistake"},{"startTime":576.84,"endTime":579.76,"body":"is they completely ignore security issues."},{"startTime":579.76,"endTime":583.52,"body":"They jump straight head"},{"startTime":579.76,"endTime":583.52,"body":"in, and they connect"},{"startTime":583.56,"endTime":587.12,"body":"AI directly to their production system"},{"startTime":583.56,"endTime":587.12,"body":"without understanding"},{"startTime":587.12,"endTime":588.32,"body":"the consequences of it."},{"startTime":588.32,"endTime":592.92,"body":"Yeah,"},{"startTime":588.32,"endTime":592.92,"body":"and I think it's due to the huge pressure"},{"startTime":592.96,"endTime":597.08,"body":"that everyone's feeling because everyone's"},{"startTime":592.96,"endTime":597.08,"body":"trying to jump on the AI train"},{"startTime":597.08,"endTime":602.16,"body":"and they're trying to, of course,"},{"startTime":597.08,"endTime":602.16,"body":"use the technology and innovate."},{"startTime":602.2,"endTime":607.44,"body":"But the fact that a lot of them"},{"startTime":602.2,"endTime":607.44,"body":"are ignorant about cybersecurity issues,"},{"startTime":607.44,"endTime":612.32,"body":"which is about AI,"},{"startTime":607.44,"endTime":612.32,"body":"makes it, of course, quite, quite worried."},{"startTime":612.36,"endTime":617.48,"body":"It kind of reminds me the same situation"},{"startTime":612.36,"endTime":617.48,"body":"that we had at the e-commerce"},{"startTime":617.84,"endTime":622.0,"body":"25 years ago when everyone said, oh,"},{"startTime":617.84,"endTime":622.0,"body":"this new thing called the web."},{"startTime":622.0,"endTime":623.6,"body":"We have to do. We have a website"},{"startTime":623.6,"endTime":626.88,"body":"and we must have an ecommerce,"},{"startTime":623.6,"endTime":626.88,"body":"so we must sell things online."},{"startTime":626.92,"endTime":628.96,"body":"The whole digital transformation, right?"},{"startTime":628.96,"endTime":630.76,"body":"Let's start taking credit cards online."},{"startTime":630.76,"endTime":633.52,"body":"And no one thought about security"},{"startTime":630.76,"endTime":633.52,"body":"and everyone started."},{"startTime":633.52,"endTime":634.76,"body":"Getting hacked."},{"startTime":634.76,"endTime":638.44,"body":"SQL injection was number one vulnerability"},{"startTime":634.76,"endTime":638.44,"body":"back then and the same thing here."},{"startTime":638.44,"endTime":642.72,"body":"But I was saying, oh, let's all use AI"},{"startTime":638.44,"endTime":642.72,"body":"and no one thinks about, you know, basic"},{"startTime":642.72,"endTime":646.12,"body":"hygiene, things like prompt injection,"},{"startTime":642.72,"endTime":646.12,"body":"but also, of course,"},{"startTime":646.64,"endTime":650.64,"body":"lots of other"},{"startTime":646.64,"endTime":650.64,"body":"security concerns surrounding AI."},{"startTime":650.68,"endTime":654.24,"body":"And we do provide OWASp"},{"startTime":654.48,"endTime":658.6,"body":"free and open source guidelines"},{"startTime":654.48,"endTime":658.6,"body":"and resources and standards for you."},{"startTime":658.68,"endTime":660.88,"body":"There was a"},{"startTime":658.68,"endTime":660.88,"body":"one of the very important documents"},{"startTime":660.88,"endTime":665.08,"body":"we have which I recommend to everyone"},{"startTime":660.88,"endTime":665.08,"body":"is a secure AI adoption guidelines."},{"startTime":665.6,"endTime":669.48,"body":"So I highly encourage other organizations"},{"startTime":665.6,"endTime":669.48,"body":"who are trying to adopt AI."},{"startTime":669.96,"endTime":673.44,"body":"Check out this document which is community"},{"startTime":669.96,"endTime":673.44,"body":"created the community to it"},{"startTime":673.48,"endTime":676.2,"body":"so they can understand"},{"startTime":673.48,"endTime":676.2,"body":"how to adopt AI security."},{"startTime":676.2,"endTime":680.44,"body":"And you mentioned like the pressures"},{"startTime":676.2,"endTime":680.44,"body":"behind businesses who are like"},{"startTime":680.52,"endTime":684.4,"body":"not being forced necessarily,"},{"startTime":680.52,"endTime":684.4,"body":"but very, very much encouraged to use"},{"startTime":684.44,"endTime":686.68,"body":"AI pressure to use AI as fast as they can."},{"startTime":686.68,"endTime":690.84,"body":"Because realistically, businesses"},{"startTime":686.68,"endTime":690.84,"body":"that don't in 1 to 2 years."},{"startTime":690.88,"endTime":692.72,"body":"They're potentially going to be"},{"startTime":690.88,"endTime":692.72,"body":"at a very strong,"},{"startTime":692.72,"endTime":696.24,"body":"very big disadvantage to those"},{"startTime":692.72,"endTime":696.24,"body":"other companies that are moving so fast."},{"startTime":696.24,"endTime":700.28,"body":"So from the point of security securities,"},{"startTime":696.24,"endTime":700.28,"body":"very often seen historically"},{"startTime":700.32,"endTime":704.04,"body":"as a department"},{"startTime":700.32,"endTime":704.04,"body":"that can slow down delivery, how"},{"startTime":704.16,"endTime":709.32,"body":"how much is that kind of like seen today"},{"startTime":704.16,"endTime":709.32,"body":"in the world of AI is that is is security"},{"startTime":709.36,"endTime":713.6,"body":"seen as something that is is hampering"},{"startTime":709.36,"endTime":713.6,"body":"the advancements of AI in organizations?"},{"startTime":713.64,"endTime":715.36,"body":"Well, that depends how you approach it."},{"startTime":715.36,"endTime":718.44,"body":"And I would always say that"},{"startTime":715.36,"endTime":718.44,"body":"no security is an enabler."},{"startTime":718.44,"endTime":721.0,"body":"You know,"},{"startTime":718.44,"endTime":721.0,"body":"it's like the brakes in your car"},{"startTime":721.0,"endTime":723.96,"body":"actually allow the cars"},{"startTime":721.0,"endTime":723.96,"body":"to move faster, right?"},{"startTime":723.96,"endTime":727.0,"body":"So the same thing with AI security world,"},{"startTime":727.04,"endTime":730.8,"body":"you can innovate fast and secure manner."},{"startTime":730.88,"endTime":733.16,"body":"But all that you need to do,"},{"startTime":730.88,"endTime":733.16,"body":"you need to be aware"},{"startTime":733.16,"endTime":737.52,"body":"of all the security implications"},{"startTime":733.16,"endTime":737.52,"body":"and make sure that your innovation"},{"startTime":737.84,"endTime":742.88,"body":"security experiments, they start"},{"startTime":737.84,"endTime":742.88,"body":"from their isolated environment,"},{"startTime":742.88,"endTime":747.48,"body":"which is secure, right, and disconnected"},{"startTime":742.88,"endTime":747.48,"body":"from your production data."},{"startTime":747.48,"endTime":750.64,"body":"So if things go wrong,"},{"startTime":747.48,"endTime":750.64,"body":"it goes minimal damage."},{"startTime":750.68,"endTime":755.76,"body":"And obviously in the isolated environment"},{"startTime":750.68,"endTime":755.76,"body":"you can actually learn"},{"startTime":755.76,"endTime":760.12,"body":"how to secure it properly for all of us"},{"startTime":760.52,"endTime":763.32,"body":"and also other industry guidelines."},{"startTime":763.32,"endTime":766.16,"body":"And one very important point,"},{"startTime":763.32,"endTime":766.16,"body":"which I'd like you to make"},{"startTime":766.16,"endTime":769.64,"body":"is also remember that"},{"startTime":766.16,"endTime":769.64,"body":"AI is non-deterministic."},{"startTime":769.68,"endTime":773.08,"body":"So let's say one thing today"},{"startTime":769.68,"endTime":773.08,"body":"was a little different than tomorrow."},{"startTime":773.32,"endTime":774.44,"body":"Another very important thing"},{"startTime":774.44,"endTime":778.96,"body":"that not many people are mentioning"},{"startTime":774.44,"endTime":778.96,"body":"today is the problem with a genetic"},{"startTime":778.96,"endTime":782.68,"body":"identity is the issue that at the moment,"},{"startTime":778.96,"endTime":782.68,"body":"the way how"},{"startTime":782.72,"endTime":787.96,"body":"AI integrates with other things"},{"startTime":782.72,"endTime":787.96,"body":"is that it acts upon humans behalf,"},{"startTime":787.96,"endTime":791.72,"body":"which makes things like traceability"},{"startTime":787.96,"endTime":791.72,"body":"and audit"},{"startTime":791.76,"endTime":794.8,"body":"and logging of actions"},{"startTime":791.76,"endTime":794.8,"body":"is very, very difficult"},{"startTime":794.8,"endTime":799.72,"body":"because if you grant an AI agent"},{"startTime":794.8,"endTime":799.72,"body":"accessing your email box"},{"startTime":799.76,"endTime":803.88,"body":"or your behalf and it's going to go inside"},{"startTime":799.76,"endTime":803.88,"body":"sending emails, sending out"},{"startTime":803.88,"endTime":806.92,"body":"spam on your behalf,"},{"startTime":803.88,"endTime":806.92,"body":"or it's going to go and start"},{"startTime":806.92,"endTime":809.92,"body":"deleting and accessing or deleting"},{"startTime":806.92,"endTime":809.92,"body":"customer records."},{"startTime":810.64,"endTime":812.52,"body":"It's not Simon, it's not Simon."},{"startTime":812.52,"endTime":815.24,"body":"AI at IO, it's Simon."},{"startTime":815.24,"endTime":816.64,"body":"Oh yeah, it wasn't me."},{"startTime":816.64,"endTime":818.72,"body":"It was my agent. Yeah, exactly, exactly."},{"startTime":818.72,"endTime":820.4,"body":"Now,"},{"startTime":818.72,"endTime":820.4,"body":"I was chatting with Brian Vermeer earlier,"},{"startTime":820.4,"endTime":822.24,"body":"and he was talking about one of the,"},{"startTime":820.4,"endTime":822.24,"body":"one of the,"},{"startTime":822.24,"endTime":826.76,"body":"one of the first things that people do"},{"startTime":822.24,"endTime":826.76,"body":"should do is understand"},{"startTime":826.76,"endTime":830.84,"body":"where organizations are using AI,"},{"startTime":826.76,"endTime":830.84,"body":"how big a problem"},{"startTime":830.84,"endTime":834.08,"body":"is, almost like the governance"},{"startTime":830.84,"endTime":834.08,"body":"or the understanding of"},{"startTime":834.2,"endTime":837.08,"body":"where people are using AI"},{"startTime":834.2,"endTime":837.08,"body":"in their organizations today."},{"startTime":837.08,"endTime":840.16,"body":"And there being too much,"},{"startTime":837.08,"endTime":840.16,"body":"almost like shadow AI."},{"startTime":840.76,"endTime":841.76,"body":"There's a lot of shadow."},{"startTime":841.76,"endTime":844.32,"body":"I believe it's a big problem"},{"startTime":841.76,"endTime":844.32,"body":"in obvious Asians"},{"startTime":844.32,"endTime":847.08,"body":"where they don't have proper governance."},{"startTime":847.08,"endTime":847.44,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":847.44,"endTime":850.44,"body":"Of the IT projects"},{"startTime":850.48,"endTime":854.32,"body":"and if they allow their developers to run"},{"startTime":850.48,"endTime":854.32,"body":"free and wild"},{"startTime":854.32,"endTime":855.76,"body":"and innovate on their machines"},{"startTime":855.76,"endTime":860.12,"body":"and install whatever they like"},{"startTime":855.76,"endTime":860.12,"body":"and particularly specific tool and say"},{"startTime":861.4,"endTime":863.08,"body":"small organization startups,"},{"startTime":863.08,"endTime":867.68,"body":"because I usually work with organizations"},{"startTime":863.08,"endTime":867.68,"body":"and highly regulated industries, such"},{"startTime":867.68,"endTime":872.44,"body":"as services, where such governance exists"},{"startTime":867.68,"endTime":872.44,"body":"because of compliance."},{"startTime":872.44,"endTime":877.2,"body":"Regulations are not all industries might"},{"startTime":872.44,"endTime":877.2,"body":"have this kind of compliance regulations."},{"startTime":877.24,"endTime":879.56,"body":"Yeah. This is why. Researching this."},{"startTime":879.56,"endTime":884.56,"body":"And so the actual problem"},{"startTime":879.56,"endTime":884.56,"body":"of finding out who is using AI,"},{"startTime":884.6,"endTime":888.0,"body":"where is this use, which models are using,"},{"startTime":884.6,"endTime":888.0,"body":"how they actually access it."},{"startTime":888.04,"endTime":891.36,"body":"It is a little bit problem"},{"startTime":888.04,"endTime":891.36,"body":"because if you don't know what you have,"},{"startTime":891.4,"endTime":892.76,"body":"you cannot possibly secure it."},{"startTime":892.76,"endTime":896.6,"body":"So do we need"},{"startTime":892.76,"endTime":896.6,"body":"do we need AI compliance regulations or do"},{"startTime":896.6,"endTime":900.64,"body":"we need an upgrade to existing SoC, TOS"},{"startTime":896.6,"endTime":900.64,"body":"and things like that with, you know."},{"startTime":900.68,"endTime":903.48,"body":"One of the things that I'm seeing"},{"startTime":900.68,"endTime":903.48,"body":"will be coming up with"},{"startTime":903.48,"endTime":905.56,"body":"something called AI Bill on material."},{"startTime":903.48,"endTime":905.56,"body":"Yeah."},{"startTime":905.56,"endTime":906.68,"body":"So at the moment we have software."},{"startTime":907.88,"endTime":911.08,"body":"So now there's AI bomb emerging."},{"startTime":911.36,"endTime":915.08,"body":"And obviously we do have an inclusive"},{"startTime":911.36,"endTime":915.08,"body":"you can actually help you with that."},{"startTime":915.08,"endTime":919.24,"body":"We have a train up to"},{"startTime":915.08,"endTime":919.24,"body":"which allows you to discover"},{"startTime":919.24,"endTime":924.64,"body":"your bill of materials based on the model,"},{"startTime":919.24,"endTime":924.64,"body":"and also scan your repositories"},{"startTime":924.64,"endTime":928.6,"body":"and see where developers"},{"startTime":924.64,"endTime":928.6,"body":"are using specific libraries."},{"startTime":928.6,"endTime":931.64,"body":"For example, there was recently a."},{"startTime":931.88,"endTime":932.72,"body":"Actually."},{"startTime":932.72,"endTime":936.8,"body":"Sort of the supply chain that was on a"},{"startTime":932.72,"endTime":936.8,"body":"very popular library called glider level."},{"startTime":936.84,"endTime":937.76,"body":"Right? Yeah."},{"startTime":937.76,"endTime":940.92,"body":"Do you know where in your organization"},{"startTime":937.76,"endTime":940.92,"body":"light is in use?"},{"startTime":941.28,"endTime":942.44,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I use it."},{"startTime":942.44,"endTime":944.96,"body":"The vulnerable version,"},{"startTime":942.44,"endTime":944.96,"body":"which was hacked. Right."},{"startTime":944.96,"endTime":949.56,"body":"We we can now"},{"startTime":944.96,"endTime":949.56,"body":"because we have played open source tools"},{"startTime":949.56,"endTime":952.68,"body":"which can actually help you"},{"startTime":949.56,"endTime":952.68,"body":"to get that inventory."},{"startTime":952.68,"endTime":954.92,"body":"But obviously there's"},{"startTime":952.68,"endTime":954.92,"body":"a lot of other companies in the sector."},{"startTime":954.92,"endTime":960.48,"body":"But the problem is that you need"},{"startTime":954.92,"endTime":960.48,"body":"to understand the actual challenge."},{"startTime":960.48,"endTime":965.52,"body":"As you mentioned, the shadow AI or"},{"startTime":960.48,"endTime":965.52,"body":"shadow IT, you don't have the inventory."},{"startTime":965.68,"endTime":967.36,"body":"You will not be able to secure it."},{"startTime":967.36,"endTime":969.84,"body":"Do we need the inventories"},{"startTime":967.36,"endTime":969.84,"body":"that you mentioned are really great,"},{"startTime":969.84,"endTime":970.72,"body":"like the software building"},{"startTime":970.72,"endTime":974.48,"body":"materials, the AI building materials,"},{"startTime":970.72,"endTime":974.48,"body":"which mostly focuses on models."},{"startTime":974.56,"endTime":978.36,"body":"Context is something that is used more"},{"startTime":974.56,"endTime":978.36,"body":"and more these days, skills and contacts"},{"startTime":978.36,"endTime":982.2,"body":"that lives in developer"},{"startTime":978.36,"endTime":982.2,"body":"environments, in projects."},{"startTime":982.28,"endTime":986.04,"body":"These are things that are being used"},{"startTime":982.28,"endTime":986.04,"body":"to create the code."},{"startTime":986.08,"endTime":989.64,"body":"They're very, very key and they're"},{"startTime":986.08,"endTime":989.64,"body":"just not being audited right now."},{"startTime":989.68,"endTime":992.16,"body":"Do you feel we need"},{"startTime":989.68,"endTime":992.16,"body":"is there a space for a context"},{"startTime":992.16,"endTime":995.44,"body":"bill of materials or something"},{"startTime":992.16,"endTime":995.44,"body":"that should be added to an AI bomb"},{"startTime":995.44,"endTime":999.44,"body":"to include what context"},{"startTime":995.44,"endTime":999.44,"body":"was used to generate this code?"},{"startTime":999.44,"endTime":1001.68,"body":"I think that's"},{"startTime":999.44,"endTime":1001.68,"body":"a very interesting suggestion."},{"startTime":1001.68,"endTime":1007.28,"body":"So we have a whole group at our studio"},{"startTime":1001.68,"endTime":1007.28,"body":"which is currently looking at it."},{"startTime":1007.36,"endTime":1011.56,"body":"And one of the things that you mentioned,"},{"startTime":1007.36,"endTime":1011.56,"body":"skills, you actually have a new"},{"startTime":1011.56,"endTime":1016.28,"body":"working group which is creating a new"},{"startTime":1011.56,"endTime":1016.28,"body":"AI agenda skills top ten."},{"startTime":1016.32,"endTime":1017.76,"body":"Oh nice development."},{"startTime":1017.76,"endTime":1018.72,"body":"I need to join this."},{"startTime":1018.72,"endTime":1019.28,"body":"I need to do."},{"startTime":1019.28,"endTime":1022.8,"body":"This because just like all of US"},{"startTime":1019.28,"endTime":1022.8,"body":"projects, it's an open source project."},{"startTime":1023.0,"endTime":1027.32,"body":"So we highly encourage contributions"},{"startTime":1023.0,"endTime":1027.32,"body":"and collaborations from everyone."},{"startTime":1027.36,"endTime":1029.32,"body":"Amazing."},{"startTime":1027.36,"endTime":1029.32,"body":"I will join and I will contribute."},{"startTime":1029.32,"endTime":1030.32,"body":"Thank you very much Sam."},{"startTime":1030.32,"endTime":1032.32,"body":"Always a pleasure"},{"startTime":1030.32,"endTime":1032.32,"body":"and great to see you here."},{"startTime":1032.32,"endTime":1034.0,"body":"Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you."},{"startTime":1034.0,"endTime":1034.8,"body":"Hey everyone!"},{"startTime":1034.8,"endTime":1037.08,"body":"Hope you're enjoying the episode so far."},{"startTime":1037.08,"endTime":1040.96,"body":"Our team is working really hard behind"},{"startTime":1037.08,"endTime":1040.96,"body":"the scenes to bring you the best guests,"},{"startTime":1040.96,"endTime":1045.24,"body":"so we can have the most informative"},{"startTime":1040.96,"endTime":1045.24,"body":"conversations about a gentle development,"},{"startTime":1045.28,"endTime":1046.92,"body":"whether that's talking about the latest"},{"startTime":1046.92,"endTime":1050.72,"body":"tools, the most efficient workflows,"},{"startTime":1046.92,"endTime":1050.72,"body":"or defining best practices."},{"startTime":1050.72,"endTime":1054.6,"body":"But for whatever reason, many of you"},{"startTime":1050.72,"endTime":1054.6,"body":"have yet to subscribe to the channel."},{"startTime":1054.64,"endTime":1057.68,"body":"If you're enjoying the podcast"},{"startTime":1054.64,"endTime":1057.68,"body":"and want us to continue to bring you"},{"startTime":1057.68,"endTime":1058.96,"body":"the very best content."},{"startTime":1058.96,"endTime":1061.44,"body":"Please do us a favor"},{"startTime":1058.96,"endTime":1061.44,"body":"and hit that subscribe button."},{"startTime":1061.44,"endTime":1064.8,"body":"It really does make a difference"},{"startTime":1061.44,"endTime":1064.8,"body":"and lets us continue to improve"},{"startTime":1064.8,"endTime":1069.08,"body":"the quality of our guests"},{"startTime":1064.8,"endTime":1069.08,"body":"and build an even better product for you."},{"startTime":1069.24,"endTime":1070.96,"body":"All right, back to the episode."},{"startTime":1076.0,"endTime":1076.48,"body":"Great."},{"startTime":1076.48,"endTime":1078.16,"body":"So we've had a couple of chats already."},{"startTime":1078.16,"endTime":1079.92,"body":"We've heard the opening keynote."},{"startTime":1079.92,"endTime":1085.6,"body":"The time now is 1120, which is just about"},{"startTime":1079.92,"endTime":1085.6,"body":"time for the for guy pigeons session."},{"startTime":1085.64,"endTime":1086.96,"body":"Don't secure the code."},{"startTime":1086.96,"endTime":1087.92,"body":"Secure the coder."},{"startTime":1087.92,"endTime":1090.44,"body":"Can security keep up with the tech dev?"},{"startTime":1090.44,"endTime":1091.6,"body":"We've had some great chats"},{"startTime":1091.6,"endTime":1095.68,"body":"with Amy here and the team with a whole"},{"startTime":1091.6,"endTime":1095.68,"body":"bunch of people on the on the expo floor."},{"startTime":1095.72,"endTime":1098.56,"body":"Let's go up and see what guy pose"},{"startTime":1095.72,"endTime":1098.56,"body":"sessions like."},{"startTime":1098.56,"endTime":1102.0,"body":"And I want to introduce"},{"startTime":1098.56,"endTime":1102.0,"body":"somebody who is quite dear to me."},{"startTime":1102.0,"endTime":1104.16,"body":"I know this man for a couple of years."},{"startTime":1104.16,"endTime":1107.16,"body":"Guy, please come to the stage."},{"startTime":1107.96,"endTime":1110.96,"body":"Give it a big hand."},{"startTime":1112.56,"endTime":1115.56,"body":"Guy will talk about obviously."},{"startTime":1115.76,"endTime":1118.28,"body":"Development Guy is the founder"},{"startTime":1118.28,"endTime":1121.32,"body":"and CEO of T-cell"},{"startTime":1118.28,"endTime":1121.32,"body":"and also the founder of sneak."},{"startTime":1121.4,"endTime":1124.36,"body":"He was the person who was crazy enough to"},{"startTime":1121.4,"endTime":1124.36,"body":"hire me."},{"startTime":1124.36,"endTime":1126.84,"body":"And I'm still here."},{"startTime":1128.36,"endTime":1130.0,"body":"Guy will talk about definitely talk"},{"startTime":1130.0,"endTime":1133.96,"body":"about things like skills,"},{"startTime":1130.0,"endTime":1133.96,"body":"but also about how a genetic development"},{"startTime":1133.96,"endTime":1138.8,"body":"has evolved and can security"},{"startTime":1133.96,"endTime":1138.8,"body":"actually keep up with this?"},{"startTime":1139.12,"endTime":1142.12,"body":"I think it goes well,"},{"startTime":1139.12,"endTime":1142.12,"body":"along with my introduction"},{"startTime":1142.12,"endTime":1143.64,"body":"and the introduction that Joe gave."},{"startTime":1143.64,"endTime":1147.28,"body":"So with without further ado"},{"startTime":1143.64,"endTime":1147.28,"body":"and not killing all the lights on stage,"},{"startTime":1147.32,"endTime":1150.32,"body":"I will leave it up to you. Thank you. Guy."},{"startTime":1150.36,"endTime":1152.04,"body":"Thanks. Hello everyone. Can you hear me?"},{"startTime":1152.04,"endTime":1153.4,"body":"Is this coming through?"},{"startTime":1153.4,"endTime":1155.28,"body":"Do we have the slides up?"},{"startTime":1155.28,"endTime":1155.8,"body":"Cool, cool."},{"startTime":1155.8,"endTime":1159.4,"body":"So, yeah, I'm Gabrielle,"},{"startTime":1155.8,"endTime":1159.4,"body":"or I'm the founder of snake."},{"startTime":1159.48,"endTime":1160.92,"body":"The chairman of the board."},{"startTime":1160.92,"endTime":1163.4,"body":"But I'm here with a different hat here,"},{"startTime":1160.92,"endTime":1163.4,"body":"which is a couple of years ago,"},{"startTime":1163.4,"endTime":1164.52,"body":"I fell in love with AI"},{"startTime":1164.52,"endTime":1168.28,"body":"and went to found Tesla,"},{"startTime":1164.52,"endTime":1168.28,"body":"which is in the AI development space."},{"startTime":1168.4,"endTime":1172.2,"body":"And in that a lot of our work focuses"},{"startTime":1168.4,"endTime":1172.2,"body":"on sort of"},{"startTime":1172.24,"endTime":1175.84,"body":"securing for the agent era or in general."},{"startTime":1176.0,"endTime":1178.6,"body":"How do you develop software"},{"startTime":1176.0,"endTime":1178.6,"body":"in the sort of a genetic era?"},{"startTime":1178.6,"endTime":1183.0,"body":"What's the"},{"startTime":1178.6,"endTime":1183.0,"body":"the new paradigm that we have to adapt to?"},{"startTime":1183.0,"endTime":1184.96,"body":"And security is an aspect of that."},{"startTime":1184.96,"endTime":1188.68,"body":"And in that a lot of the kind of the core"},{"startTime":1184.96,"endTime":1188.68,"body":"new world"},{"startTime":1188.76,"endTime":1193.48,"body":"moves us from software development"},{"startTime":1188.76,"endTime":1193.48,"body":"and security revolving"},{"startTime":1193.48,"endTime":1197.04,"body":"around the implementation, revolving"},{"startTime":1193.48,"endTime":1197.04,"body":"around the code to revolving around"},{"startTime":1197.04,"endTime":1202.04,"body":"instructions and intent, because we're now"},{"startTime":1197.04,"endTime":1202.04,"body":"driving and guiding agents."},{"startTime":1202.04,"endTime":1202.84,"body":"And so that's kind of the"},{"startTime":1202.84,"endTime":1206.36,"body":"theme of my kind of points over here, is"},{"startTime":1202.84,"endTime":1206.36,"body":"we need to move from securing the code"},{"startTime":1206.36,"endTime":1209.36,"body":"to securing the coder,"},{"startTime":1206.36,"endTime":1209.36,"body":"securing the the agent."},{"startTime":1210.0,"endTime":1213.12,"body":"So it's no secret that AI is transforming"},{"startTime":1210.0,"endTime":1213.12,"body":"software development."},{"startTime":1213.12,"endTime":1213.8,"body":"And while we had a"},{"startTime":1213.8,"endTime":1217.68,"body":"bunch of very good examples here about non"},{"startTime":1213.8,"endTime":1217.68,"body":"software development flows on it,"},{"startTime":1217.68,"endTime":1219.48,"body":"I think software"},{"startTime":1217.68,"endTime":1219.48,"body":"development is a good harbinger."},{"startTime":1219.48,"endTime":1222.56,"body":"Sort of like Canary to say"},{"startTime":1219.48,"endTime":1222.56,"body":"this will happen to all knowledge work."},{"startTime":1222.56,"endTime":1224.96,"body":"So I'll focus very much about that."},{"startTime":1224.96,"endTime":1227.52,"body":"And in software"},{"startTime":1224.96,"endTime":1227.52,"body":"development we've gone from"},{"startTime":1227.52,"endTime":1231.12,"body":"from AI augmented software development"},{"startTime":1227.52,"endTime":1231.12,"body":"that was pioneered by Copilot"},{"startTime":1231.12,"endTime":1233.72,"body":"and then cursor"},{"startTime":1231.12,"endTime":1233.72,"body":"that it's more about your coding."},{"startTime":1233.72,"endTime":1238.08,"body":"And this helps you write code to"},{"startTime":1233.72,"endTime":1238.08,"body":"AI natives of development."},{"startTime":1238.08,"endTime":1239.28,"body":"That is more about delegation."},{"startTime":1239.28,"endTime":1242.68,"body":"It's more about the agents"},{"startTime":1239.28,"endTime":1242.68,"body":"in which you're asking the agent"},{"startTime":1242.68,"endTime":1246.92,"body":"to do a task for you, and it goes on"},{"startTime":1242.68,"endTime":1246.92,"body":"and and performs it better or not."},{"startTime":1246.92,"endTime":1250.52,"body":"And this agent development is"},{"startTime":1246.92,"endTime":1250.52,"body":"where everything has consolidated towards."},{"startTime":1250.52,"endTime":1254.52,"body":"And so today, I think, again,"},{"startTime":1250.52,"endTime":1254.52,"body":"not a controversial statement to say"},{"startTime":1254.52,"endTime":1258.4,"body":"we should focus on what is"},{"startTime":1254.52,"endTime":1258.4,"body":"how do we secure a genetic development"},{"startTime":1258.4,"endTime":1260.24,"body":"as the mental model for us."},{"startTime":1261.24,"endTime":1262.76,"body":"And the development is amazing."},{"startTime":1262.76,"endTime":1263.88,"body":"It's powerful."},{"startTime":1263.88,"endTime":1268.48,"body":"A single person can do so much to it, but"},{"startTime":1263.88,"endTime":1268.48,"body":"it introduces a bunch of new challenges"},{"startTime":1268.48,"endTime":1272.08,"body":"as compared to how we've been dealing"},{"startTime":1268.48,"endTime":1272.08,"body":"with software security before."},{"startTime":1272.52,"endTime":1275.56,"body":"And again, this is security"},{"startTime":1272.52,"endTime":1275.56,"body":"and software development as a whole."},{"startTime":1275.56,"endTime":1279.24,"body":"And I'll mention three big ones here"},{"startTime":1275.56,"endTime":1279.24,"body":"that I'll focus on in this talk."},{"startTime":1279.24,"endTime":1281.36,"body":"One is it's non-deterministic."},{"startTime":1281.36,"endTime":1285.08,"body":"So we use the software that if it compiled"},{"startTime":1281.36,"endTime":1285.08,"body":"once it will compile again."},{"startTime":1285.12,"endTime":1285.36,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1285.36,"endTime":1287.88,"body":"We're used to to things"},{"startTime":1285.36,"endTime":1287.88,"body":"that that are the risk"},{"startTime":1287.88,"endTime":1289.6,"body":"that we can say this now works"},{"startTime":1287.88,"endTime":1289.6,"body":"I scanned it."},{"startTime":1289.6,"endTime":1292.36,"body":"It didn't have I'll scan it again."},{"startTime":1289.6,"endTime":1292.36,"body":"It does not have the like."},{"startTime":1292.36,"endTime":1294.4,"body":"It's the same findings that I get."},{"startTime":1294.4,"endTime":1296.8,"body":"And that's no longer"},{"startTime":1294.4,"endTime":1296.8,"body":"the case with agents or with agents."},{"startTime":1296.8,"endTime":1299.76,"body":"We have to make do with the fact that"},{"startTime":1296.8,"endTime":1299.76,"body":"these are non-deterministic creatures."},{"startTime":1299.76,"endTime":1300.84,"body":"We have to get statistical."},{"startTime":1300.84,"endTime":1304.04,"body":"We have to say, well, it works nine times"},{"startTime":1300.84,"endTime":1304.04,"body":"out of ten, 99 times out of 100."},{"startTime":1304.04,"endTime":1306.12,"body":"How do we handle that?"},{"startTime":1304.04,"endTime":1306.12,"body":"How do we even find out?"},{"startTime":1307.32,"endTime":1308.28,"body":"Second is, as"},{"startTime":1308.28,"endTime":1312.04,"body":"mentioned, it revolves around intent"},{"startTime":1308.28,"endTime":1312.04,"body":"or instructions, not code."},{"startTime":1312.04,"endTime":1316.24,"body":"So what is the sort of new unit"},{"startTime":1312.04,"endTime":1316.24,"body":"of software that we need to secure here?"},{"startTime":1316.52,"endTime":1319.24,"body":"How do we evolve our security"},{"startTime":1319.24,"endTime":1322.32,"body":"and improve our security"},{"startTime":1319.24,"endTime":1322.32,"body":"of securing the coder?"},{"startTime":1322.32,"endTime":1324.92,"body":"So that's a new challenge for us."},{"startTime":1322.32,"endTime":1324.92,"body":"And I'll talk about that."},{"startTime":1324.92,"endTime":1325.88,"body":"And then lastly,"},{"startTime":1325.88,"endTime":1329.6,"body":"as you might have noticed, it"},{"startTime":1325.88,"endTime":1329.6,"body":"changes at a certain kind of rapid clip."},{"startTime":1329.6,"endTime":1334.48,"body":"And so software development as a whole"},{"startTime":1329.6,"endTime":1334.48,"body":"and the need for security"},{"startTime":1334.48,"endTime":1337.24,"body":"and a bunch of other aspects of"},{"startTime":1334.48,"endTime":1337.24,"body":"the knowledge"},{"startTime":1337.24,"endTime":1340.44,"body":"domain are moving"},{"startTime":1337.24,"endTime":1340.44,"body":"and changing faster than ever before."},{"startTime":1340.44,"endTime":1341.4,"body":"So how do we deal with that?"},{"startTime":1341.4,"endTime":1343.64,"body":"So there are clearly many aspects of agent"},{"startTime":1343.64,"endTime":1347.12,"body":"development that I don't cover here,"},{"startTime":1343.64,"endTime":1347.12,"body":"but I'll focus on these three."},{"startTime":1348.24,"endTime":1348.96,"body":"So the first and"},{"startTime":1348.96,"endTime":1352.04,"body":"biggest one is the fact that agent dev"},{"startTime":1348.96,"endTime":1352.04,"body":"is non-deterministic."},{"startTime":1352.04,"endTime":1357.24,"body":"And that really reminds me of this"},{"startTime":1352.04,"endTime":1357.24,"body":"sort of DevOps ethos that we have, right."},{"startTime":1357.32,"endTime":1359.12,"body":"In DevOps."},{"startTime":1357.32,"endTime":1359.12,"body":"We were saying if it moves, measure it."},{"startTime":1359.12,"endTime":1361.28,"body":"If it doesn't move, measure it"},{"startTime":1359.12,"endTime":1361.28,"body":"in case it moves, know."},{"startTime":1361.28,"endTime":1363.96,"body":"It's like the most statistical creatures"},{"startTime":1361.28,"endTime":1363.96,"body":"that we have in our disposal"},{"startTime":1363.96,"endTime":1366.64,"body":"today is these servers"},{"startTime":1363.96,"endTime":1366.64,"body":"that are sometimes up and sometimes down."},{"startTime":1366.64,"endTime":1368.56,"body":"They're not really behaving"},{"startTime":1366.64,"endTime":1368.56,"body":"as they should."},{"startTime":1368.56,"endTime":1372.32,"body":"And so in this world you have to say,"},{"startTime":1368.56,"endTime":1372.32,"body":"well, you can't optimize like the,"},{"startTime":1372.32,"endTime":1374.96,"body":"the learning from there was"},{"startTime":1372.32,"endTime":1374.96,"body":"you can't optimize what you can't measure."},{"startTime":1374.96,"endTime":1377.64,"body":"Right. It's a pretty simple statement,"},{"startTime":1374.96,"endTime":1377.64,"body":"but it's a good one to remember."},{"startTime":1377.64,"endTime":1380.12,"body":"So how do we measure agent behavior."},{"startTime":1380.12,"endTime":1381.48,"body":"How do we think about this."},{"startTime":1381.48,"endTime":1382.2,"body":"Well, generally"},{"startTime":1382.2,"endTime":1387.48,"body":"there are a lot of very evolved ways"},{"startTime":1382.2,"endTime":1387.48,"body":"to do evaluations or evals in AI world."},{"startTime":1387.48,"endTime":1390.64,"body":"But typically what you would do is"},{"startTime":1387.48,"endTime":1390.64,"body":"you would create a task for the agent,"},{"startTime":1390.68,"endTime":1393.96,"body":"hey, agent, here is a task"},{"startTime":1390.68,"endTime":1393.96,"body":"and I'll use 11 labs"},{"startTime":1394.12,"endTime":1395.68,"body":"intentionally starting from non-security."},{"startTime":1395.68,"endTime":1399.56,"body":"So 11 labs is a very successful London"},{"startTime":1399.56,"endTime":1403.44,"body":"based kind of text to speech"},{"startTime":1403.44,"endTime":1406.76,"body":"lab or AI lab, and they have an ability"},{"startTime":1403.44,"endTime":1406.76,"body":"to generate music."},{"startTime":1406.76,"endTime":1409.24,"body":"And so we can give it a task,"},{"startTime":1406.76,"endTime":1409.24,"body":"for instance, in this case"},{"startTime":1409.24,"endTime":1411.76,"body":"a dynamic soundtrack generator"},{"startTime":1409.24,"endTime":1411.76,"body":"for a game studio."},{"startTime":1411.76,"endTime":1416.24,"body":"And then you define up front some criteria"},{"startTime":1411.76,"endTime":1416.24,"body":"to say, what does good look like?"},{"startTime":1416.56,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"Like what is what is correct"},{"startTime":1416.56,"endTime":1419.68,"body":"implementation of this."},{"startTime":1419.72,"endTime":1422.56,"body":"And then you run"},{"startTime":1419.72,"endTime":1422.56,"body":"that task across the agent."},{"startTime":1422.56,"endTime":1425.84,"body":"And what this plot shows is it"},{"startTime":1422.56,"endTime":1425.84,"body":"shows five different scenarios."},{"startTime":1425.84,"endTime":1428.28,"body":"We have our sort of dynamic"},{"startTime":1425.84,"endTime":1428.28,"body":"soundtrack over here,"},{"startTime":1428.28,"endTime":1432.24,"body":"but I have five others in areas that I ran"},{"startTime":1428.28,"endTime":1432.24,"body":"each of them ten times and I scored it."},{"startTime":1432.24,"endTime":1433.6,"body":"And you can see a few things"},{"startTime":1433.6,"endTime":1435.68,"body":"like already you're a little bit"},{"startTime":1433.6,"endTime":1435.68,"body":"more informed, for instance."},{"startTime":1435.68,"endTime":1437.92,"body":"You see the lines are not very high."},{"startTime":1437.92,"endTime":1441.36,"body":"The scores that the the agent got for"},{"startTime":1437.92,"endTime":1441.36,"body":"this is not very good."},{"startTime":1441.36,"endTime":1443.48,"body":"And that's"},{"startTime":1441.36,"endTime":1443.48,"body":"because the music API is relatively new."},{"startTime":1443.48,"endTime":1447.36,"body":"So it's not well represented in the,"},{"startTime":1443.48,"endTime":1447.36,"body":"in the sort of the model right,"},{"startTime":1447.44,"endTime":1448.36,"body":"in the weights."},{"startTime":1448.36,"endTime":1450.08,"body":"And so they don't"},{"startTime":1448.36,"endTime":1450.08,"body":"really know how to handle it."},{"startTime":1450.08,"endTime":1451.44,"body":"And so that's one problem."},{"startTime":1451.44,"endTime":1453.4,"body":"The second is that you see"},{"startTime":1451.44,"endTime":1453.4,"body":"the dots are all over the place."},{"startTime":1453.4,"endTime":1455.36,"body":"Like we asked the agent"},{"startTime":1453.4,"endTime":1455.36,"body":"to do the same thing again."},{"startTime":1455.36,"endTime":1458.2,"body":"Again sometimes you see"},{"startTime":1455.36,"endTime":1458.2,"body":"kind of like normal scatter."},{"startTime":1458.2,"endTime":1460.96,"body":"Sometimes they'd better, sometimes"},{"startTime":1458.2,"endTime":1460.96,"body":"they'd worse, maybe within a rage."},{"startTime":1460.96,"endTime":1463.8,"body":"And you have some other cases"},{"startTime":1460.96,"endTime":1463.8,"body":"where it kind of hit the mark."},{"startTime":1463.8,"endTime":1464.04,"body":"Right."},{"startTime":1464.04,"endTime":1468.0,"body":"It sort of guessed correctly"},{"startTime":1464.04,"endTime":1468.0,"body":"one time or two times and then it doesn't."},{"startTime":1468.0,"endTime":1468.68,"body":"These others."},{"startTime":1468.68,"endTime":1471.64,"body":"So we have this mess"},{"startTime":1468.68,"endTime":1471.64,"body":"and it's very hard to work with that."},{"startTime":1471.64,"endTime":1473.56,"body":"So clearly said, well,"},{"startTime":1471.64,"endTime":1473.56,"body":"how can I make it better."},{"startTime":1473.56,"endTime":1475.0,"body":"How can I make it work better?"},{"startTime":1475.0,"endTime":1478.96,"body":"How do I kind of train the sort of agents,"},{"startTime":1475.0,"endTime":1478.96,"body":"how do I harness them?"},{"startTime":1479.08,"endTime":1481.8,"body":"And harness is actually a different word."},{"startTime":1481.8,"endTime":1483.4,"body":"I didn't say that. Ignore that word."},{"startTime":1483.4,"endTime":1489.92,"body":"And then and it's sort of the most common"},{"startTime":1483.4,"endTime":1489.92,"body":"kind of way to do that is with context."},{"startTime":1489.92,"endTime":1494.04,"body":"And the most common unit of context"},{"startTime":1489.92,"endTime":1494.04,"body":"that is used today are skills."},{"startTime":1494.04,"endTime":1497.72,"body":"So these are basically markdown files"},{"startTime":1494.04,"endTime":1497.72,"body":"a little bit more with some structure."},{"startTime":1497.72,"endTime":1501.6,"body":"But these are bits of information"},{"startTime":1497.72,"endTime":1501.6,"body":"for the agent to use"},{"startTime":1501.64,"endTime":1502.88,"body":"to be able to perform this task."},{"startTime":1502.88,"endTime":1506.0,"body":"And we need to remember that"},{"startTime":1502.88,"endTime":1506.0,"body":"knowledge is not the same as intelligence."},{"startTime":1506.0,"endTime":1508.88,"body":"The the models can be brilliant"},{"startTime":1506.0,"endTime":1508.88,"body":"and very, very capable,"},{"startTime":1508.88,"endTime":1512.36,"body":"but if they don't know something,"},{"startTime":1508.88,"endTime":1512.36,"body":"oftentimes they just can't do it."},{"startTime":1512.36,"endTime":1516.08,"body":"Or it's just mighty inefficient for them"},{"startTime":1512.36,"endTime":1516.08,"body":"to do that so they can figure it out."},{"startTime":1516.08,"endTime":1518.48,"body":"But they will be"},{"startTime":1516.08,"endTime":1518.48,"body":"there will be statistics there."},{"startTime":1518.48,"endTime":1523.84,"body":"And so in this case, we have an 11 labs"},{"startTime":1518.48,"endTime":1523.84,"body":"music skill that helps explain the API."},{"startTime":1523.84,"endTime":1526.4,"body":"And so when we run, when we use that"},{"startTime":1523.84,"endTime":1526.4,"body":"we indeed"},{"startTime":1526.4,"endTime":1528.36,"body":"see that for our dynamic soundtrack"},{"startTime":1526.4,"endTime":1528.36,"body":"generator."},{"startTime":1528.36,"endTime":1530.52,"body":"And I'm using Tesla"},{"startTime":1528.36,"endTime":1530.52,"body":"here to do the evaluations."},{"startTime":1530.52,"endTime":1532.96,"body":"You see that without context"},{"startTime":1530.52,"endTime":1532.96,"body":"it didn't do a bunch of things."},{"startTime":1532.96,"endTime":1533.6,"body":"It did."},{"startTime":1533.6,"endTime":1537.24,"body":"It used the deprecated package, it didn't"},{"startTime":1533.6,"endTime":1537.24,"body":"import it correctly and all that."},{"startTime":1537.24,"endTime":1539.76,"body":"And with the skill with the context,"},{"startTime":1537.24,"endTime":1539.76,"body":"it got it done."},{"startTime":1539.76,"endTime":1544.68,"body":"So it got a 50% average"},{"startTime":1539.76,"endTime":1544.68,"body":"versus a 98 without the skill versus 98%."},{"startTime":1544.92,"endTime":1546.48,"body":"So it's good we managed to correct it."},{"startTime":1546.48,"endTime":1551.88,"body":"And if we run this across the line,"},{"startTime":1546.48,"endTime":1551.88,"body":"we see in some cases we just solved it."},{"startTime":1551.92,"endTime":1556.48,"body":"It just basically now is sufficiently good"},{"startTime":1551.92,"endTime":1556.48,"body":"to fairly consistently do the task."},{"startTime":1556.52,"endTime":1559.88,"body":"And in other cases it's still slightly"},{"startTime":1556.52,"endTime":1559.88,"body":"varied, but it's further up,"},{"startTime":1559.88,"endTime":1562.88,"body":"so it is more capable of doing that task."},{"startTime":1562.92,"endTime":1564.96,"body":"So this is the type of way"},{"startTime":1562.92,"endTime":1564.96,"body":"in which you evolve"},{"startTime":1564.96,"endTime":1567.64,"body":"and you improve your agents ability"},{"startTime":1564.96,"endTime":1567.64,"body":"to do something."},{"startTime":1567.64,"endTime":1568.56,"body":"This is a security event."},{"startTime":1568.56,"endTime":1570.4,"body":"So how do we talk about this for security?"},{"startTime":1570.4,"endTime":1571.84,"body":"Well, let's take another example."},{"startTime":1571.84,"endTime":1574.36,"body":"Code guard is something that Cisco created"},{"startTime":1571.84,"endTime":1574.36,"body":"and donated."},{"startTime":1574.36,"endTime":1577.64,"body":"And it's basically"},{"startTime":1574.36,"endTime":1577.64,"body":"a bunch of sort of OWASp security"},{"startTime":1578.12,"endTime":1580.56,"body":"kind of rules packaged up into a skill."},{"startTime":1580.56,"endTime":1584.56,"body":"And and it helps kind of these"},{"startTime":1584.64,"endTime":1588.04,"body":"AI developers,"},{"startTime":1584.64,"endTime":1588.04,"body":"these agents develop more secure code."},{"startTime":1588.24,"endTime":1590.2,"body":"So let's put that to the test."},{"startTime":1590.2,"endTime":1593.76,"body":"I created"},{"startTime":1590.2,"endTime":1593.76,"body":"six different evaluation scenarios."},{"startTime":1593.76,"endTime":1595.8,"body":"And I specifically focused"},{"startTime":1593.76,"endTime":1595.8,"body":"on authorization."},{"startTime":1595.8,"endTime":1598.52,"body":"How well did you handle the security"},{"startTime":1595.8,"endTime":1598.52,"body":"of authorization in this code."},{"startTime":1598.52,"endTime":1601.64,"body":"So for instance"},{"startTime":1598.52,"endTime":1601.64,"body":"hey agent, create an access control"},{"startTime":1601.68,"endTime":1606.44,"body":"test suite for a project management API"},{"startTime":1601.68,"endTime":1606.44,"body":"and then created a bunch of scores for it."},{"startTime":1606.44,"endTime":1608.76,"body":"And I did it with and without code Guard."},{"startTime":1608.76,"endTime":1610.96,"body":"And as you would expect, it got better."},{"startTime":1610.96,"endTime":1615.52,"body":"So without Code Guard,"},{"startTime":1610.96,"endTime":1615.52,"body":"just as is, the agent scored 48%"},{"startTime":1615.52,"endTime":1619.72,"body":"on my kind of authorization criteria,"},{"startTime":1615.52,"endTime":1619.72,"body":"sort of a scorecard."},{"startTime":1619.76,"endTime":1620.76,"body":"So not awesome."},{"startTime":1620.76,"endTime":1625.68,"body":"And if it had these instructions"},{"startTime":1620.76,"endTime":1625.68,"body":"nearly 1.6 x the improvement on."},{"startTime":1625.68,"endTime":1628.24,"body":"So it got a fair bit better"},{"startTime":1625.68,"endTime":1628.24,"body":"because there was a bunch of guides"},{"startTime":1628.24,"endTime":1631.36,"body":"about how to sort of code securely,"},{"startTime":1628.24,"endTime":1631.36,"body":"including authorization."},{"startTime":1631.36,"endTime":1634.0,"body":"So that's that's good."},{"startTime":1631.36,"endTime":1634.0,"body":"That's already useful."},{"startTime":1634.0,"endTime":1636.96,"body":"However, if I took all the information"},{"startTime":1634.0,"endTime":1636.96,"body":"in Code Guard"},{"startTime":1636.96,"endTime":1637.32,"body":"that has a"},{"startTime":1637.32,"endTime":1641.16,"body":"lot of security practices in it,"},{"startTime":1637.32,"endTime":1641.16,"body":"and I shrunk it down to just the authentic"},{"startTime":1641.24,"endTime":1645.2,"body":"authentication authorization related bits,"},{"startTime":1641.24,"endTime":1645.2,"body":"which are, I think about sort of 5%"},{"startTime":1645.2,"endTime":1646.04,"body":"of the total content."},{"startTime":1646.04,"endTime":1648.44,"body":"If I remember correctly,"},{"startTime":1646.04,"endTime":1648.44,"body":"it did a lot better."},{"startTime":1648.44,"endTime":1649.76,"body":"It went to 98%."},{"startTime":1649.76,"endTime":1652.24,"body":"And this is"},{"startTime":1649.76,"endTime":1652.24,"body":"this is sort of a core thing to remember,"},{"startTime":1652.24,"endTime":1654.16,"body":"which is more context"},{"startTime":1652.24,"endTime":1654.16,"body":"is not necessarily better. Right."},{"startTime":1654.16,"endTime":1657.96,"body":"If I sat here and I told you 100 things,"},{"startTime":1654.16,"endTime":1657.96,"body":"no matter how sort of brilliant or dumb"},{"startTime":1657.96,"endTime":1658.68,"body":"they were,"},{"startTime":1658.68,"endTime":1662.44,"body":"you will notice you'll give less attention"},{"startTime":1658.68,"endTime":1662.44,"body":"to each one of them than if I told you."},{"startTime":1662.48,"endTime":1666.44,"body":"Three and attention is a scarce resource"},{"startTime":1662.48,"endTime":1666.44,"body":"with humans and with models."},{"startTime":1666.44,"endTime":1667.92,"body":"And so choosing and managing."},{"startTime":1667.92,"endTime":1671.64,"body":"What is it that you say that"},{"startTime":1667.92,"endTime":1671.64,"body":"actually matters that the model doesn't"},{"startTime":1671.64,"endTime":1672.36,"body":"already know,"},{"startTime":1672.36,"endTime":1675.36,"body":"like not wasteful information"},{"startTime":1672.36,"endTime":1675.36,"body":"that there's no point in saying"},{"startTime":1675.36,"endTime":1677.76,"body":"is important"},{"startTime":1675.36,"endTime":1677.76,"body":"and is a part of that competency."},{"startTime":1678.76,"endTime":1680.64,"body":"Taking that a little bit further,"},{"startTime":1680.64,"endTime":1680.96,"body":"you know,"},{"startTime":1680.96,"endTime":1682.92,"body":"if this is the graph"},{"startTime":1680.96,"endTime":1682.92,"body":"that shows the same numbers"},{"startTime":1682.92,"endTime":1686.0,"body":"from before of code guard, not guard,"},{"startTime":1682.92,"endTime":1686.0,"body":"you also might be surprised"},{"startTime":1686.0,"endTime":1689.44,"body":"to hear the different agents respond"},{"startTime":1686.0,"endTime":1689.44,"body":"to the same information differently."},{"startTime":1689.44,"endTime":1691.2,"body":"So this is an example of the same test."},{"startTime":1691.2,"endTime":1694.4,"body":"In fact a whole"},{"startTime":1691.2,"endTime":1694.4,"body":"it's literally the same execution."},{"startTime":1694.4,"endTime":1696.72,"body":"And what you can see is different models"},{"startTime":1694.4,"endTime":1696.72,"body":"respond differently."},{"startTime":1696.72,"endTime":1700.12,"body":"Opus and sonnet at the top"},{"startTime":1696.72,"endTime":1700.12,"body":"they get about the same results."},{"startTime":1700.12,"endTime":1703.04,"body":"Even though opus is more intelligent,"},{"startTime":1700.12,"endTime":1703.04,"body":"it is more expensive."},{"startTime":1703.04,"endTime":1705.84,"body":"So if you use the opus for this specific"},{"startTime":1703.04,"endTime":1705.84,"body":"task, you kind of wasted money"},{"startTime":1705.84,"endTime":1708.56,"body":"and probably time"},{"startTime":1705.84,"endTime":1708.56,"body":"because you could do the same with sonnet."},{"startTime":1708.56,"endTime":1710.92,"body":"And what you can see is codex and cursor."},{"startTime":1710.92,"endTime":1714.52,"body":"They respond even differently"},{"startTime":1710.92,"endTime":1714.52,"body":"and it doesn't matter which one is better."},{"startTime":1714.56,"endTime":1715.64,"body":"Like it does matter eventually."},{"startTime":1715.64,"endTime":1718.72,"body":"But that's not my point, but rather"},{"startTime":1718.76,"endTime":1722.64,"body":"the fact that different agents, again,"},{"startTime":1718.76,"endTime":1722.64,"body":"almost like humans, listen differently."},{"startTime":1722.68,"endTime":1724.52,"body":"And so you want to know"},{"startTime":1722.68,"endTime":1724.52,"body":"that your instructions"},{"startTime":1724.52,"endTime":1728.28,"body":"are effective, are not wasteful"},{"startTime":1724.52,"endTime":1728.28,"body":"for the agents that you are using."},{"startTime":1729.36,"endTime":1732.64,"body":"So that's kind of core point here"},{"startTime":1729.36,"endTime":1732.64,"body":"is if we want to secure"},{"startTime":1732.68,"endTime":1736.08,"body":"agents, we want to use skills to help them"},{"startTime":1732.68,"endTime":1736.08,"body":"secure code or write secure code."},{"startTime":1736.08,"endTime":1738.84,"body":"We have to learn how to measure that."},{"startTime":1738.84,"endTime":1740.8,"body":"And how do you"},{"startTime":1738.84,"endTime":1740.8,"body":"how do you build good context."},{"startTime":1740.8,"endTime":1743.16,"body":"Like how do you how do you evolve it?"},{"startTime":1743.16,"endTime":1745.96,"body":"How do you create kind of quality context,"},{"startTime":1743.16,"endTime":1745.96,"body":"you know, how to build."},{"startTime":1745.96,"endTime":1747.08,"body":"So where to talk a little bit"},{"startTime":1747.08,"endTime":1750.36,"body":"about the fact that you generate"},{"startTime":1747.08,"endTime":1750.36,"body":"you create a skill, you evaluate it,"},{"startTime":1750.36,"endTime":1752.64,"body":"and then once you've evaluated,"},{"startTime":1750.36,"endTime":1752.64,"body":"you can optimize it"},{"startTime":1752.64,"endTime":1755.64,"body":"until you kind of get a better"},{"startTime":1752.64,"endTime":1755.64,"body":"and better guidance for that agent."},{"startTime":1755.64,"endTime":1758.04,"body":"And then you need to distribute"},{"startTime":1755.64,"endTime":1758.04,"body":"that or communicate it."},{"startTime":1758.04,"endTime":1762.4,"body":"If you want to use the human mode to the"},{"startTime":1758.04,"endTime":1762.4,"body":"agents and observe what has happened."},{"startTime":1762.4,"endTime":1763.48,"body":"And the observe is important."},{"startTime":1763.48,"endTime":1766.72,"body":"If the evals are kind of like your tests,"},{"startTime":1763.48,"endTime":1766.72,"body":"once you've got something working"},{"startTime":1766.72,"endTime":1769.24,"body":"and you make a modification,"},{"startTime":1766.72,"endTime":1769.24,"body":"how do you know you're not breaking it?"},{"startTime":1769.24,"endTime":1771.12,"body":"How do you know you're evolving it?"},{"startTime":1771.12,"endTime":1773.4,"body":"How do you know"},{"startTime":1771.12,"endTime":1773.4,"body":"if you can use a cheaper model or not?"},{"startTime":1773.4,"endTime":1775.24,"body":"You have to be able to evaluate,"},{"startTime":1773.4,"endTime":1775.24,"body":"but eventually"},{"startTime":1775.24,"endTime":1777.04,"body":"your test will go out of out of sync."},{"startTime":1777.04,"endTime":1779.56,"body":"They would not represent reality"},{"startTime":1777.04,"endTime":1779.56,"body":"if you don't also observe"},{"startTime":1779.56,"endTime":1780.12,"body":"what is happening."},{"startTime":1780.12,"endTime":1782.56,"body":"So we call this"},{"startTime":1780.12,"endTime":1782.56,"body":"the context development lifecycle."},{"startTime":1782.56,"endTime":1783.48,"body":"And as you build"},{"startTime":1783.48,"endTime":1788.08,"body":"good context, you can use that context"},{"startTime":1783.48,"endTime":1788.08,"body":"across the software development lifecycle."},{"startTime":1788.12,"endTime":1790.92,"body":"So we think the CDC is"},{"startTime":1788.12,"endTime":1790.92,"body":"where us humans should live."},{"startTime":1790.92,"endTime":1793.6,"body":"We should be building good context"},{"startTime":1790.92,"endTime":1793.6,"body":"that guides the agents."},{"startTime":1793.6,"endTime":1796.8,"body":"And then we should apply that to the SDLC"},{"startTime":1793.6,"endTime":1796.8,"body":"where the agents should work."},{"startTime":1796.8,"endTime":1797.84,"body":"And the same context,"},{"startTime":1797.84,"endTime":1802.56,"body":"the same instruction can be applied"},{"startTime":1797.84,"endTime":1802.56,"body":"end to end in the development process."},{"startTime":1802.92,"endTime":1805.68,"body":"Same as like a great developer on the team"},{"startTime":1802.92,"endTime":1805.68,"body":"will use the same knowledge"},{"startTime":1805.68,"endTime":1808.68,"body":"to define a product feature,"},{"startTime":1805.68,"endTime":1808.68,"body":"write the code, troubleshoot something,"},{"startTime":1808.68,"endTime":1812.48,"body":"ship it to production, troubleshoot"},{"startTime":1808.68,"endTime":1812.48,"body":"an incident, etc. etc."},{"startTime":1812.52,"endTime":1814.24,"body":"the same knowledge is useful"},{"startTime":1814.24,"endTime":1816.6,"body":"across the board,"},{"startTime":1814.24,"endTime":1816.6,"body":"so the skills represent that knowledge."},{"startTime":1816.6,"endTime":1819.08,"body":"And of course, from a security lens"},{"startTime":1816.6,"endTime":1819.08,"body":"perspective,"},{"startTime":1819.08,"endTime":1822.36,"body":"we can now use that"},{"startTime":1819.08,"endTime":1822.36,"body":"to secure different steps."},{"startTime":1822.6,"endTime":1826.56,"body":"So this is this is how you should"},{"startTime":1822.6,"endTime":1826.56,"body":"write secure code at the beginning."},{"startTime":1826.56,"endTime":1829.6,"body":"This is what I want to audit in the code"},{"startTime":1826.56,"endTime":1829.6,"body":"review to highlight to you."},{"startTime":1829.6,"endTime":1831.4,"body":"This is what I want to get on."},{"startTime":1831.4,"endTime":1833.84,"body":"This is what I want to inspect"},{"startTime":1831.4,"endTime":1833.84,"body":"when an incident occurred."},{"startTime":1833.84,"endTime":1837.52,"body":"So all of these things can be represented"},{"startTime":1833.84,"endTime":1837.52,"body":"in skills that we use across the SRC."},{"startTime":1840.16,"endTime":1841.6,"body":"So this is non-deterministic."},{"startTime":1841.6,"endTime":1843.84,"body":"It's kind of my biggest point to make."},{"startTime":1843.84,"endTime":1846.4,"body":"And as we as"},{"startTime":1843.84,"endTime":1846.4,"body":"we learn how to evaluate those."},{"startTime":1846.4,"endTime":1847.88,"body":"The second point is"},{"startTime":1847.88,"endTime":1849.84,"body":"we've been talking more"},{"startTime":1847.88,"endTime":1849.84,"body":"and more about these skills"},{"startTime":1849.84,"endTime":1852.56,"body":"and we're sort of optimizing these skills"},{"startTime":1849.84,"endTime":1852.56,"body":"and we're developing these skills."},{"startTime":1852.56,"endTime":1853.8,"body":"And I think it's useful to start"},{"startTime":1853.8,"endTime":1858.36,"body":"thinking about skills in terms of"},{"startTime":1853.8,"endTime":1858.36,"body":"their own security as a unit of software."},{"startTime":1858.4,"endTime":1859.72,"body":"Right. It looked like a markdown file."},{"startTime":1859.72,"endTime":1862.72,"body":"They look like a notion document"},{"startTime":1859.72,"endTime":1862.72,"body":"or like a confluence document."},{"startTime":1862.72,"endTime":1866.6,"body":"But the way we process them"},{"startTime":1862.72,"endTime":1866.6,"body":"is we execute them by the agent"},{"startTime":1866.64,"endTime":1867.84,"body":"or the agent execute them."},{"startTime":1867.84,"endTime":1870.84,"body":"So really, I think we're well served,"},{"startTime":1867.84,"endTime":1870.84,"body":"especially from a security lens,"},{"startTime":1870.84,"endTime":1875.84,"body":"to think about them as a unit of software,"},{"startTime":1870.84,"endTime":1875.84,"body":"not just as a piece of text."},{"startTime":1875.84,"endTime":1878.68,"body":"And we have like a lot of indications"},{"startTime":1875.84,"endTime":1878.68,"body":"of that today."},{"startTime":1878.68,"endTime":1878.84,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":1878.84,"endTime":1881.2,"body":"We have the sneak study,"},{"startTime":1878.84,"endTime":1881.2,"body":"and there were very many others"},{"startTime":1881.2,"endTime":1883.16,"body":"that showed,"},{"startTime":1881.2,"endTime":1883.16,"body":"especially in the open claw world,"},{"startTime":1883.16,"endTime":1886.88,"body":"where a lot of skills were malicious,"},{"startTime":1883.16,"endTime":1886.88,"body":"literally attackers putting in things"},{"startTime":1886.88,"endTime":1890.6,"body":"that are trying to make the, the,"},{"startTime":1886.88,"endTime":1890.6,"body":"the agent to do something it shouldn't."},{"startTime":1890.84,"endTime":1892.64,"body":"Here's an example of a malicious skill."},{"startTime":1892.64,"endTime":1893.84,"body":"This is from the Tesla"},{"startTime":1893.84,"endTime":1897.44,"body":"registry scanned by sneak,"},{"startTime":1893.84,"endTime":1897.44,"body":"where it had a bunch of that it down."},{"startTime":1897.88,"endTime":1900.64,"body":"And while most of your wells"},{"startTime":1897.88,"endTime":1900.64,"body":"were just standard blockchain"},{"startTime":1900.64,"endTime":1903.76,"body":"APIs, one of them was suddenly downloading"},{"startTime":1900.64,"endTime":1903.76,"body":"a password protected zip."},{"startTime":1903.92,"endTime":1905.36,"body":"Fishy doesn't sound right."},{"startTime":1905.36,"endTime":1907.04,"body":"Okay,"},{"startTime":1905.36,"endTime":1907.04,"body":"that's potentially a malicious skill."},{"startTime":1907.04,"endTime":1907.76,"body":"There's a bunch of things"},{"startTime":1907.76,"endTime":1911.24,"body":"we can do, clearly imperfect,"},{"startTime":1907.76,"endTime":1911.24,"body":"but we can try to detect malicious skills."},{"startTime":1911.64,"endTime":1913.56,"body":"There are also vulnerable skills."},{"startTime":1913.56,"endTime":1914.68,"body":"What's a vulnerable skill?"},{"startTime":1914.68,"endTime":1918.24,"body":"For instance, a skill that uses insecure"},{"startTime":1914.68,"endTime":1918.24,"body":"credential handling."},{"startTime":1918.24,"endTime":1922.44,"body":"It asks the user to put API keys inside,"},{"startTime":1918.24,"endTime":1922.44,"body":"or it makes MCP calls"},{"startTime":1922.44,"endTime":1925.76,"body":"with sort of plain vanilla tokens for it."},{"startTime":1925.76,"endTime":1928.04,"body":"So that's an example of something"},{"startTime":1925.76,"endTime":1928.04,"body":"that is insecure behavior."},{"startTime":1928.04,"endTime":1932.08,"body":"It's vulnerable"},{"startTime":1928.04,"endTime":1932.08,"body":"to exfiltrate some information outside."},{"startTime":1932.6,"endTime":1937.0,"body":"There's also like new types of flaws"},{"startTime":1932.6,"endTime":1937.0,"body":"that you might have in what I"},{"startTime":1937.04,"endTime":1940.84,"body":"this is not an industry term, but what"},{"startTime":1937.04,"endTime":1940.84,"body":"I like to think of as negligence skills."},{"startTime":1940.84,"endTime":1942.64,"body":"So these are skills that do not have"},{"startTime":1942.64,"endTime":1946.4,"body":"some basic safety"},{"startTime":1942.64,"endTime":1946.4,"body":"instructions inside of them."},{"startTime":1946.8,"endTime":1949.72,"body":"Come along like check"},{"startTime":1946.8,"endTime":1949.72,"body":"this into a repository."},{"startTime":1949.72,"endTime":1952.28,"body":"Do not make it a public repository."},{"startTime":1952.28,"endTime":1955.2,"body":"If you cannot commit to the repository,"},{"startTime":1952.28,"endTime":1955.2,"body":"fail."},{"startTime":1955.2,"endTime":1957.8,"body":"Don't like go off and sort of"},{"startTime":1955.2,"endTime":1957.8,"body":"send it in another way."},{"startTime":1957.8,"endTime":1960.68,"body":"So a bunch of these types of examples"},{"startTime":1957.8,"endTime":1960.68,"body":"are very real examples."},{"startTime":1960.68,"endTime":1963.68,"body":"And we have cases where we've had agents."},{"startTime":1963.88,"endTime":1966.72,"body":"There's a behavior called reward seeking"},{"startTime":1963.88,"endTime":1966.72,"body":"which is you ask them to do something"},{"startTime":1966.72,"endTime":1968.68,"body":"and they're really,"},{"startTime":1966.72,"endTime":1968.68,"body":"really, really keen to do it."},{"startTime":1968.68,"endTime":1971.0,"body":"And so they go up"},{"startTime":1968.68,"endTime":1971.0,"body":"and they try to do everything they can,"},{"startTime":1971.0,"endTime":1972.28,"body":"and they escape their sandbox"},{"startTime":1972.28,"endTime":1975.36,"body":"and they delete files"},{"startTime":1972.28,"endTime":1975.36,"body":"and they do whatever it is to please you."},{"startTime":1975.56,"endTime":1978.28,"body":"And so you have to define"},{"startTime":1975.56,"endTime":1978.28,"body":"a little bit of these safety instructions."},{"startTime":1978.28,"endTime":1981.08,"body":"It's kind of similar"},{"startTime":1978.28,"endTime":1981.08,"body":"to what Brian's example was on."},{"startTime":1981.08,"endTime":1985.08,"body":"Right to say do not disclose information"},{"startTime":1981.08,"endTime":1985.08,"body":"that makes it at least less negligent."},{"startTime":1986.04,"endTime":1989.72,"body":"And then again, similar to software,"},{"startTime":1986.04,"endTime":1989.72,"body":"there's a question about supply chain."},{"startTime":1989.76,"endTime":1991.84,"body":"How do you consume these skills today?"},{"startTime":1991.84,"endTime":1995.32,"body":"The reality is that people"},{"startTime":1991.84,"endTime":1995.32,"body":"just consume them out of GitHub repo."},{"startTime":1995.36,"endTime":1997.88,"body":"They download them from wherever."},{"startTime":1995.36,"endTime":1997.88,"body":"You have no idea that it happened."},{"startTime":1997.88,"endTime":1998.92,"body":"You have no idea where it's there."},{"startTime":1998.92,"endTime":2001.2,"body":"Then they check them in"},{"startTime":1998.92,"endTime":2001.2,"body":"to their repositories."},{"startTime":2001.2,"endTime":2002.8,"body":"Different agents"},{"startTime":2001.2,"endTime":2002.8,"body":"read them from different places,"},{"startTime":2002.8,"endTime":2006.4,"body":"so you might check them in seven times"},{"startTime":2002.8,"endTime":2006.4,"body":"the different folders within your repo."},{"startTime":2006.4,"endTime":2007.28,"body":"It's not."},{"startTime":2007.28,"endTime":2008.96,"body":"It's early, it's fine, will improve."},{"startTime":2008.96,"endTime":2010.16,"body":"But for now it's not awesome."},{"startTime":2010.16,"endTime":2011.0,"body":"So you have to think a little bit"},{"startTime":2011.0,"endTime":2012.68,"body":"about supply chain."},{"startTime":2011.0,"endTime":2012.68,"body":"So all of those become obvious"},{"startTime":2012.68,"endTime":2015.72,"body":"once you think about skills"},{"startTime":2012.68,"endTime":2015.72,"body":"as units of software."},{"startTime":2016.84,"endTime":2018.04,"body":"So what do we want to do here."},{"startTime":2018.04,"endTime":2021.32,"body":"Like what is what is enterprise grade"},{"startTime":2021.36,"endTime":2024.0,"body":"kind of skill governance"},{"startTime":2021.36,"endTime":2024.0,"body":"skill usage on it."},{"startTime":2024.0,"endTime":2025.12,"body":"This is a nascent space."},{"startTime":2025.12,"endTime":2027.76,"body":"I'll give you the lens on it"},{"startTime":2025.12,"endTime":2027.76,"body":"because this is our world."},{"startTime":2027.76,"endTime":2028.96,"body":"We think you need to think about"},{"startTime":2028.96,"endTime":2032.52,"body":"three different elements"},{"startTime":2028.96,"endTime":2032.52,"body":"of of evolving this piece of software."},{"startTime":2032.56,"endTime":2034.16,"body":"First is governance and security."},{"startTime":2034.16,"endTime":2035.84,"body":"Know what the hell is going on?"},{"startTime":2035.84,"endTime":2039.56,"body":"Try to sort of audit"},{"startTime":2035.84,"endTime":2039.56,"body":"the use of it like you've posted skills."},{"startTime":2039.56,"endTime":2041.16,"body":"Did anybody install them?"},{"startTime":2041.16,"endTime":2043.08,"body":"Constrain the use of skills."},{"startTime":2043.08,"endTime":2046.88,"body":"So people download skills always through"},{"startTime":2043.08,"endTime":2046.88,"body":"this sort of centralized path."},{"startTime":2046.92,"endTime":2048.0,"body":"Again, not that dissimilar"},{"startTime":2048.0,"endTime":2051.08,"body":"to what you should be doing"},{"startTime":2048.0,"endTime":2051.08,"body":"with NPM libraries or whatever."},{"startTime":2051.08,"endTime":2052.6,"body":"And so you have to know"},{"startTime":2051.08,"endTime":2052.6,"body":"about the governance."},{"startTime":2052.6,"endTime":2055.4,"body":"If you can't do that,"},{"startTime":2052.6,"endTime":2055.4,"body":"you really oftentimes cannot roll out."},{"startTime":2055.4,"endTime":2059.48,"body":"Once you rolled out, you have a need"},{"startTime":2055.4,"endTime":2059.48,"body":"to standardize and allow reuse."},{"startTime":2059.76,"endTime":2062.16,"body":"If three different people created a skill"},{"startTime":2062.16,"endTime":2064.8,"body":"to review code,"},{"startTime":2062.16,"endTime":2064.8,"body":"and a fourth person comes along and says,"},{"startTime":2064.8,"endTime":2067.8,"body":"I want to use a skill like, first of all,"},{"startTime":2064.8,"endTime":2067.8,"body":"where do they find it?"},{"startTime":2067.8,"endTime":2070.36,"body":"Second is, how do they know"},{"startTime":2067.8,"endTime":2070.36,"body":"which of the three to change?"},{"startTime":2070.36,"endTime":2072.36,"body":"If I created a skill"},{"startTime":2070.36,"endTime":2072.36,"body":"and then one of you came in"},{"startTime":2072.36,"endTime":2075.36,"body":"and proposed the modification,"},{"startTime":2072.36,"endTime":2075.36,"body":"how do you know if it's good or not good."},{"startTime":2075.36,"endTime":2078.76,"body":"If I now 100 people are using this skill"},{"startTime":2075.36,"endTime":2078.76,"body":"and I'm"},{"startTime":2078.76,"endTime":2082.52,"body":"going to make a change to the skill,"},{"startTime":2078.76,"endTime":2082.52,"body":"how do I know that I'm not breaking it?"},{"startTime":2082.52,"endTime":2084.2,"body":"And so there's a bunch of this notion"},{"startTime":2084.2,"endTime":2088.36,"body":"of standardization, of reusability"},{"startTime":2084.2,"endTime":2088.36,"body":"that you have to create a measure."},{"startTime":2088.36,"endTime":2091.84,"body":"And then lastly, and this is"},{"startTime":2088.36,"endTime":2091.84,"body":"the holy grail is continuous optimization."},{"startTime":2091.84,"endTime":2097.8,"body":"You want to know that this is that CLC,"},{"startTime":2091.84,"endTime":2097.8,"body":"that we want the continuous optimization."},{"startTime":2097.8,"endTime":2099.2,"body":"You want to observe what has happened."},{"startTime":2099.2,"endTime":2100.12,"body":"Did the agent fail?"},{"startTime":2100.12,"endTime":2104.48,"body":"Did the user need to correct"},{"startTime":2100.12,"endTime":2104.48,"body":"the agent and take that information"},{"startTime":2104.48,"endTime":2108.36,"body":"and route that back to be able to evolve"},{"startTime":2104.48,"endTime":2108.36,"body":"the skill, create new eval scenarios?"},{"startTime":2108.36,"endTime":2109.44,"body":"And that is the holy grail."},{"startTime":2109.44,"endTime":2111.88,"body":"And the companies that are at the cutting"},{"startTime":2109.44,"endTime":2111.88,"body":"edge are doing this right."},{"startTime":2111.88,"endTime":2113.52,"body":"They are creating that optimization."},{"startTime":2113.52,"endTime":2115.76,"body":"Most organizations are quite far from it."},{"startTime":2115.76,"endTime":2118.64,"body":"And so that's why"},{"startTime":2115.76,"endTime":2118.64,"body":"this is oftentimes the sequence."},{"startTime":2119.8,"endTime":2120.84,"body":"I'd be"},{"startTime":2120.84,"endTime":2124.12,"body":"remiss if I didn't do a little bit"},{"startTime":2120.84,"endTime":2124.12,"body":"of a Tesla plug over here to doing it."},{"startTime":2124.12,"endTime":2125.76,"body":"So that's oftentimes what we help you do."},{"startTime":2125.76,"endTime":2128.76,"body":"We have a platform in which, on one hand"},{"startTime":2125.76,"endTime":2128.76,"body":"from a"},{"startTime":2128.84,"endTime":2132.16,"body":"from a development perspective,"},{"startTime":2128.84,"endTime":2132.16,"body":"we help you collaboratively develop skills"},{"startTime":2132.16,"endTime":2136.16,"body":"that allow developers to discover"},{"startTime":2132.16,"endTime":2136.16,"body":"and install those quality skills"},{"startTime":2136.16,"endTime":2140.96,"body":"and then observe what has happened,"},{"startTime":2136.16,"endTime":2140.96,"body":"learn from that and create new paths."},{"startTime":2141.12,"endTime":2145.08,"body":"And then within that"},{"startTime":2141.12,"endTime":2145.08,"body":"we have these these controls."},{"startTime":2145.08,"endTime":2149.6,"body":"So we have the ability to now"},{"startTime":2145.08,"endTime":2149.6,"body":"make sure with sneak we scan every skill"},{"startTime":2149.6,"endTime":2152.64,"body":"that gets published into the"},{"startTime":2149.6,"endTime":2152.64,"body":"into the registry."},{"startTime":2152.64,"endTime":2154.68,"body":"So you know that it's not malicious."},{"startTime":2154.68,"endTime":2157.56,"body":"Similarly, when you install"},{"startTime":2154.68,"endTime":2157.56,"body":"we have controls about scan from us."},{"startTime":2157.56,"endTime":2159.52,"body":"We have analytics about who's using what."},{"startTime":2159.52,"endTime":2163.24,"body":"And then lastly for the sort of these"},{"startTime":2159.52,"endTime":2163.24,"body":"nascent agent enablement"},{"startTime":2163.28,"endTime":2166.56,"body":"teams, these platform teams, developer"},{"startTime":2163.28,"endTime":2166.56,"body":"experience team AI enablement teams"},{"startTime":2166.56,"endTime":2170.12,"body":"that are that own successful"},{"startTime":2166.56,"endTime":2170.12,"body":"rollout of agents in the organization."},{"startTime":2170.12,"endTime":2171.48,"body":"We give them a bunch of these abilities"},{"startTime":2171.48,"endTime":2175.2,"body":"to eliminate duplicates, drive"},{"startTime":2171.48,"endTime":2175.2,"body":"skill usage, optimize costs."},{"startTime":2175.52,"endTime":2178.32,"body":"I like to say that a genetic development"},{"startTime":2175.52,"endTime":2178.32,"body":"is cheaper than expensive."},{"startTime":2178.32,"endTime":2179.44,"body":"It's like very cheap at the beginning"},{"startTime":2179.44,"endTime":2182.44,"body":"because a single person can do so much"},{"startTime":2179.44,"endTime":2182.44,"body":"and then you get the bill."},{"startTime":2182.56,"endTime":2183.64,"body":"It's not that awesome."},{"startTime":2183.64,"endTime":2185.12,"body":"So you start thinking,"},{"startTime":2185.12,"endTime":2188.36,"body":"as we use agents more and more,"},{"startTime":2185.12,"endTime":2188.36,"body":"what is the sort of the cost?"},{"startTime":2189.12,"endTime":2192.64,"body":"And those, of course,"},{"startTime":2189.12,"endTime":2192.64,"body":"you know, a moment with the sneak hat on,"},{"startTime":2192.88,"endTime":2194.12,"body":"we have some amazing other aspects"},{"startTime":2194.12,"endTime":2197.88,"body":"of securing the agent behavior itself"},{"startTime":2194.12,"endTime":2197.88,"body":"and its runtime in Evo,"},{"startTime":2197.88,"endTime":2200.72,"body":"and I'm sure you'll hear more"},{"startTime":2197.88,"endTime":2200.72,"body":"about this over here as well."},{"startTime":2202.36,"endTime":2204.8,"body":"And then to close off,"},{"startTime":2202.36,"endTime":2204.8,"body":"I want to talk about the third bullet,"},{"startTime":2204.8,"endTime":2209.0,"body":"which is a genetic"},{"startTime":2204.8,"endTime":2209.0,"body":"development moves faster than ever"},{"startTime":2209.12,"endTime":2212.4,"body":"and security must become a genetic"},{"startTime":2209.12,"endTime":2212.4,"body":"to keep up."},{"startTime":2212.48,"endTime":2215.0,"body":"Sounds very familiar to me"},{"startTime":2212.48,"endTime":2215.0,"body":"from the sneak early days."},{"startTime":2215.0,"endTime":2218.44,"body":"And when I when I hearken back to"},{"startTime":2215.0,"endTime":2218.44,"body":"what happened, it sort of sneak roots."},{"startTime":2218.72,"endTime":2222.16,"body":"You think if you're a graybeard like me,"},{"startTime":2218.72,"endTime":2222.16,"body":"you think about the change"},{"startTime":2222.16,"endTime":2223.8,"body":"that happened there"},{"startTime":2222.16,"endTime":2223.8,"body":"when we went from waterfall"},{"startTime":2223.8,"endTime":2228.36,"body":"to cloud and some behaviors,"},{"startTime":2223.8,"endTime":2228.36,"body":"some manual processes"},{"startTime":2228.36,"endTime":2232.84,"body":"and such were tolerated in waterfall"},{"startTime":2228.36,"endTime":2232.84,"body":"and were no longer tolerated in cloud."},{"startTime":2232.84,"endTime":2235.8,"body":"The idea that before"},{"startTime":2232.84,"endTime":2235.8,"body":"any piece of software will shift,"},{"startTime":2235.8,"endTime":2239.2,"body":"someone will manually audit"},{"startTime":2235.8,"endTime":2239.2,"body":"it was tolerated."},{"startTime":2239.24,"endTime":2242.88,"body":"You know, like the best teams"},{"startTime":2239.24,"endTime":2242.88,"body":"automated the security scanning of it,"},{"startTime":2242.88,"endTime":2245.84,"body":"but most people manually audited,"},{"startTime":2242.88,"endTime":2245.84,"body":"so the average team did not."},{"startTime":2245.84,"endTime":2248.68,"body":"In cloud. That cannot be the case"},{"startTime":2245.84,"endTime":2248.68,"body":"once you're in DevOps."},{"startTime":2248.68,"endTime":2251.8,"body":"Once you're in that continuous,"},{"startTime":2248.68,"endTime":2251.8,"body":"you have to automate that scanning."},{"startTime":2251.92,"endTime":2253.28,"body":"I think we're facing now the same thing,"},{"startTime":2253.28,"endTime":2255.4,"body":"which is some"},{"startTime":2253.28,"endTime":2255.4,"body":"things are tolerated in cloud."},{"startTime":2255.4,"endTime":2256.96,"body":"The best teams are automating them."},{"startTime":2256.96,"endTime":2259.16,"body":"They're sort of reviewing them."},{"startTime":2256.96,"endTime":2259.16,"body":"They're auto improving them."},{"startTime":2259.16,"endTime":2260.48,"body":"But most teams are not."},{"startTime":2260.48,"endTime":2263.04,"body":"And they're no longer"},{"startTime":2260.48,"endTime":2263.04,"body":"going to be tolerated in agents."},{"startTime":2263.04,"endTime":2264.16,"body":"So there's a little bit of like"},{"startTime":2264.16,"endTime":2266.04,"body":"the future is here,"},{"startTime":2264.16,"endTime":2266.04,"body":"but it's not evenly distributed."},{"startTime":2266.04,"endTime":2267.68,"body":"We should think about all these things"},{"startTime":2266.04,"endTime":2267.68,"body":"that are like"},{"startTime":2267.68,"endTime":2270.48,"body":"the paper cuts that we have, the places"},{"startTime":2267.68,"endTime":2270.48,"body":"in which like, you know what?"},{"startTime":2270.48,"endTime":2273.52,"body":"I'm a secure it's like I will triage"},{"startTime":2270.48,"endTime":2273.52,"body":"these vulnerabilities for my developers"},{"startTime":2273.52,"endTime":2277.88,"body":"or I will, you know, maybe we'll only fix"},{"startTime":2273.52,"endTime":2277.88,"body":"the ones that are truly glaring."},{"startTime":2277.88,"endTime":2279.16,"body":"We're not going to fix the rest."},{"startTime":2279.16,"endTime":2281.08,"body":"Many of these things are just no longer"},{"startTime":2279.16,"endTime":2281.08,"body":"an option."},{"startTime":2281.08,"endTime":2283.64,"body":"So you have to think about"},{"startTime":2281.08,"endTime":2283.64,"body":"how do we improve them."},{"startTime":2283.64,"endTime":2285.56,"body":"And there's a long list of those."},{"startTime":2285.56,"endTime":2288.56,"body":"There are many, many,"},{"startTime":2285.56,"endTime":2288.56,"body":"many things that go from nice to have to,"},{"startTime":2288.56,"endTime":2291.6,"body":"must have from indeed prioritization"},{"startTime":2288.56,"endTime":2291.6,"body":"to automating upgrades"},{"startTime":2291.6,"endTime":2293.36,"body":"to detection"},{"startTime":2291.6,"endTime":2293.36,"body":"of supply chain manipulations."},{"startTime":2293.36,"endTime":2294.6,"body":"Like there's just so many things."},{"startTime":2294.6,"endTime":2297.08,"body":"This is really just a tiny sample set."},{"startTime":2297.08,"endTime":2300.48,"body":"And the good news is that for each"},{"startTime":2297.08,"endTime":2300.48,"body":"one of those agents can really,"},{"startTime":2300.48,"endTime":2304.44,"body":"really help in making these automated"},{"startTime":2300.48,"endTime":2304.44,"body":"like it's agents all the way down."},{"startTime":2304.48,"endTime":2304.64,"body":"Right?"},{"startTime":2304.64,"endTime":2307.68,"body":"You can build agents upon agents"},{"startTime":2304.64,"endTime":2307.68,"body":"that will do a bunch"},{"startTime":2307.68,"endTime":2310.68,"body":"of these different steps,"},{"startTime":2307.68,"endTime":2310.68,"body":"and that allows us to scale."},{"startTime":2311.04,"endTime":2315.56,"body":"And so we find ourselves in this kind"},{"startTime":2311.04,"endTime":2315.56,"body":"of carrot and stick mode security."},{"startTime":2315.56,"endTime":2318.28,"body":"If it doesn't become a genetic,"},{"startTime":2315.56,"endTime":2318.28,"body":"it will never keep up."},{"startTime":2318.28,"endTime":2320.52,"body":"We will fail."},{"startTime":2318.28,"endTime":2320.52,"body":"The attackers are becoming a genetic."},{"startTime":2320.52,"endTime":2322.28,"body":"They're moving faster than ever."},{"startTime":2322.28,"endTime":2326.04,"body":"The development, like the business, has"},{"startTime":2322.28,"endTime":2326.04,"body":"to be a genetic to be able to to develop"},{"startTime":2326.04,"endTime":2327.4,"body":"and we have to keep up over there."},{"startTime":2327.4,"endTime":2330.4,"body":"So if we don't become a genetic,"},{"startTime":2327.4,"endTime":2330.4,"body":"there's a bit of a, you know,"},{"startTime":2330.4,"endTime":2331.6,"body":"like you're going to be in trouble."},{"startTime":2331.6,"endTime":2335.44,"body":"But if you do,"},{"startTime":2331.6,"endTime":2335.44,"body":"if we do become a genetic in the world,"},{"startTime":2335.44,"endTime":2337.92,"body":"then we can actually fix application"},{"startTime":2335.44,"endTime":2337.92,"body":"security."},{"startTime":2337.92,"endTime":2341.88,"body":"We can actually fix those things"},{"startTime":2337.92,"endTime":2341.88,"body":"that we've long wanted and tried to get"},{"startTime":2341.88,"endTime":2346.36,"body":"developers to do on a consistent fashion,"},{"startTime":2341.88,"endTime":2346.36,"body":"which to me is exciting. So"},{"startTime":2347.44,"endTime":2349.16,"body":"I'm excited by the new future."},{"startTime":2349.16,"endTime":2349.96,"body":"I'm slightly daunted."},{"startTime":2349.96,"endTime":2352.88,"body":"I think there's a lot of need to change"},{"startTime":2349.96,"endTime":2352.88,"body":"just to plug."},{"startTime":2352.88,"endTime":2355.28,"body":"We have a conference"},{"startTime":2352.88,"endTime":2355.28,"body":"in a couple of weeks here in Dev Con."},{"startTime":2355.28,"endTime":2358.28,"body":"It's running here in London"},{"startTime":2355.28,"endTime":2358.28,"body":"June 1st and second."},{"startTime":2358.28,"endTime":2362.4,"body":"If it's all about a genetic development,"},{"startTime":2358.28,"endTime":2362.4,"body":"adoption like real world scenarios"},{"startTime":2362.44,"endTime":2365.32,"body":"actually in kind of organizations"},{"startTime":2362.44,"endTime":2365.32,"body":"that have it, if you want to check it out."},{"startTime":2365.32,"endTime":2366.44,"body":"I think Brian might be speaking."},{"startTime":2366.44,"endTime":2370.68,"body":"And also I think we stole you"},{"startTime":2366.44,"endTime":2370.68,"body":"to a different one in the previous one"},{"startTime":2370.84,"endTime":2373.84,"body":"and a lot of learning on it."},{"startTime":2373.88,"endTime":2376.48,"body":"Would love to see you there if you'd like."},{"startTime":2376.48,"endTime":2379.28,"body":"That's it for me. Thank you."},{"startTime":2379.28,"endTime":2381.6,"body":"What a day. At the AI Security Summit."},{"startTime":2381.6,"endTime":2384.48,"body":"We had some great discussions"},{"startTime":2381.6,"endTime":2384.48,"body":"on on the Tesla booth."},{"startTime":2384.48,"endTime":2387.08,"body":"We had some wonderful chats"},{"startTime":2384.48,"endTime":2387.08,"body":"on the showroom floor."},{"startTime":2387.08,"endTime":2391.16,"body":"We had some great sessions, guy"},{"startTime":2387.08,"endTime":2391.16,"body":"in particular, super enlightening"},{"startTime":2391.16,"endTime":2395.96,"body":"about securing the coder,"},{"startTime":2391.16,"endTime":2395.96,"body":"not the code from AI Security Summit."},{"startTime":2396.0,"endTime":2396.76,"body":"Wonderful day."},{"startTime":2396.76,"endTime":2397.44,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"startTime":2397.44,"endTime":2399.84,"body":"Sneak. And everyone here."},{"startTime":2399.84,"endTime":2404.48,"body":"The AI native dev is brought to you by the"},{"startTime":2399.84,"endTime":2404.48,"body":"package manager for skills and context."},{"startTime":2404.52,"endTime":2407.64,"body":"Your hosts are Guy"},{"startTime":2404.52,"endTime":2407.64,"body":"pigeon and me, Simon Maple."},{"startTime":2407.68,"endTime":2409.48,"body":"Our producer is Tom Dowler."},{"startTime":2409.48,"endTime":2412.8,"body":"The AI native dev is not just a podcast,"},{"startTime":2409.48,"endTime":2412.8,"body":"it's a community."},{"startTime":2412.84,"endTime":2416.48,"body":"And we host monthly meetups"},{"startTime":2412.84,"endTime":2416.48,"body":"at the Tesla offices in central London."},{"startTime":2416.52,"endTime":2421.48,"body":"Visit Tesla IO forward slash community"},{"startTime":2416.52,"endTime":2421.48,"body":"to learn more and I hope to see you there."}]}