FIRE Social Worker Show
Welcome to The FIRE Social Worker Show, where financial independence meets compassion and purpose. Hosted by Joey Laswell, a Certified Financial Social Worker and military veteran, this podcast is your guide to building a brighter financial future while staying true to your values.
Join us for candid conversations, actionable money tips, and inspiring stories from industry experts, military members, and everyday changemakers. Whether you’re a social worker, part of the military community, or simply seeking financial freedom, this show is here to empower you.
It’s time to ignite your financial independence and create a lasting impact. Start your journey with The FIRE Social Worker Show!
FIRE Social Worker Show
From Call Centers to Coaching: Marthea Pitts on Redefining Social Work Careers and Financial Empowerment
Join us for an eye-opening conversation on the Fire Social Worker Show as we feature Marthea Pitts, the powerhouse known as the MSW Coach. With a career journey that has taken her from state government call centers to a PhD candidate at Florida A&M University, Marthea’s story is one of tenacity and innovation. She reveals her unique approach to social work, driven by a talent for demystifying complex policies and a commitment to uplift underserved communities. Discover how Marthea’s entrepreneurial spirit led her to create coaching programs that empower social workers to transform their passion into profitable ventures.
Our discussion navigates the often challenging landscape of social work careers, offering strategies for social workers to enhance both job satisfaction and financial well-being. Marthea and I stress the importance of building a personal brand and being strategic about academic and professional choices to open doors to fulfilling opportunities. From negotiating job offers to exploring tech-driven roles, Marthea provides invaluable insights into how social workers can effectively advocate for themselves and leverage their unique skills in a variety of settings.
As we wrap up, the episode touches on the promising intersection of social work and technology, and how social workers can step into roles that use tech to streamline operations and dispel misinformation. Through compelling stories of success and empowerment, listeners are encouraged to embrace bold career choices and seize the opportunities that lie ahead. Don’t miss the chance to learn from Marthea’s expertise and consider how you too can craft a rewarding path in social work.
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All right, hello everybody. This is the Fire Social Worker Show. Welcome, welcome. Looks like Marthea, you're muted. Let me go ahead and go live here. Okay, there we go.
Speaker 1:I am the fire social worker and I'm a certified financial social worker, just passionate about talking finances and passionate about social work, and I'm just excited to kind of spread the gospel about personal finance. And so I have a special guest with me today. I have Ms Marthia Pitts. You might know her as the MSW coach. I mean, honestly, she's got so many irons in the fire. I actually, if you don't mind, I'm going to go through some of the accolades that you've accomplished so far. I'll talk you up a little bit. Okay, sorry. So this is actually from ChatGPT. People don't know that you can actually set ChatGPT as your default search engine now, which is kind of interesting, but anyway. So I actually just put you in to ChatGPT and it came up with.
Speaker 1:Marthea Pitts is a distinguished workforce development center career counselor and macro-focused social worker specializing in program design and policy. The lead founder and lead consultant of MSW Coach, a career consulting company that collaborates with governmental agencies, community-based organizations and educational institutions to enhance career pathways for undersourced populations. And you know like I'm going to post this in the show notes, but there's four more paragraphs, so a decade of career experience assisted more than 150 social workers. A PhD candidate at Florida A&M University consulting work Like you have your own podcast. You have a YouTube channel, like I mean. My question for you is just like when do you sleep? Like, how do you? How do you function?
Speaker 2:Actually, I think I was well prepared for this entrepreneurial journey, because I didn't always have the most ideal jobs. I spent a lot more years being severely overworked, so I'm kind of I've kind of been trained the hard way for it okay well, we're going to go into a little bit of your backstory, um, you know, because this is, uh, you know this.
Speaker 1:This is for social workers, but it's for everybody too, so there are some aspiring social workers that watch and listen. So, uh, just tell us a little bit about you know, what inspired you to get into social work, and a little bit about your backstory, but what got you to where you are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, most definitely. Hey, hey, hey, my name is Marthea Pitts. I'm known on the social work streets as the MSW coach, and my journey to social work was not one that I took willingly. I started off working in state government and call center positions, to be exact, in regulatory specialist roles. So I was the person that, when you call a state agency to like find out, maybe, about your child support case, or to submit a report to the abuse hotline, or to find out about social workers getting reciprocity of licensure in the state of Florida, I was the person you talked to. And so what that looks like was every day, day in, day out, me talking to hundreds of people from all walks of life. But more than that, it also looked like me being heavily reliant on state laws, policies and statutesutes and reading them in large amounts to interpret how to assist the caller, and so the questions would be a range of things, but I had to use my resources, which were the laws, the regulatory laws and policies, to answer their questions. And so I believe that those early years working in call centers have been foundational in my career and where it is now, because in those roles I learned to read, interpret and apply very complex technical information and dissemin can talk to anybody and they will understand a complex thing and it honestly came from the years working on the front lines. I can talk to the blue collar worker and I can talk to the senior executive leaders and I've done that in all of my positions.
Speaker 2:And so my journey into social work again was not willing. I didn't dream of being a social worker. I actually had a good friend of mine at the time who was not a social worker. She had a psychology background. However, she worked in a lot of social service agencies and for years Joey, I mean years she would tell me Marthea, you would be a great social worker, you've been through a lot, like you could really help the people.
Speaker 2:I was like, no, I don't want to be a social worker, because my understanding of a social worker is very skewed at the time from working in social service agencies again at those state agencies and working with social service workers, I always thought those were social workers. And then my only like connection point to that was in the child welfare system which I worked at, the abuse hotline. So I wasn't going to people's houses but I would always say like no, I don't want to take people's keys. I thought that's how social workers did so. After years, like years, of her encouraging me to do the thing, I finally did it. And it it was, and I made the decision to do it. During the year I took a career sabbatical for my call center jobs because I was severely burnt out. It's only so much talking that an introvert can do before it negatively impacts you.
Speaker 1:So I had to shout out to the introverts it's.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of work sometimes yeah, and I didn't even know what was going on. And so I took a year-long career sabbatical and during that time I got very clear on that I was supposed to become a social worker. So I enrolled in my Master's of Social Work degree program at the Florida A&M University. I went and taught. Well, before I enrolled I went and taught to the department chairs and I taught, learned about their program and that it wasn't a clinical program. It was an administrative track program, meaning they prepare you to be like leaders of social service agencies, nonprofits, things like that, which was great for me because at that time my career goal was to streamline the delivery of the social services, like in those organizations that I worked in, because I saw so many issues with how the service was being provided that I was like I'm going to go and change the face of social service delivery. And so when I learned about the program, I was like this is what I need, and so I enrolled and my world was shifted.
Speaker 2:I experienced the hugest and the largest paradigm shift at that time for where I was in my own personal life as far as economic injustice.
Speaker 2:I lived in a city, tallahassee, florida, that was identified to be the most economically segregated city in the nation in 2017.
Speaker 2:And so all of this is like a combination of things I didn't share with you all that, like I was always a non-traditional student. I started out working on my AA degree, and it was in a community my associative arts degree and it was in a community college sociology class that I made the discovery that the things I was experiencing in my life was not a result of something being inherently wrong with me, but it was a result of me being impacted by these invisible systems. I always thought that my inability to get a good paying job was because I just couldn't get one, but what I didn't take into account was my inability to get a good paying job because I didn't have reliable transportation. I lived in a city that doesn't have mass transportation. I didn't have reliable child care. I had a lot of didn't haves, and so it was in that sociology class when the sociology adjunct professor was talking about these systems, I was like, oh my gosh, that is the story of my life.
Speaker 2:And so when I enrolled in the MSW degree program and my professors were talking to us about the importance of being a watchdog in policy. Again, it wasn't a macro specific program but, because it's a program at a historically Black college and university, they talked to us about the importance of addressing the root cause issues, or the problems that we see in our potential clients, and so it was a combination of all of those things in addition to me working in a workforce development center at the time as a workforce development career counselor that it really put a battery on my back um, in my back to be more prevention focused rather than intervention so I really say that I feel like I didn't become, because I didn't graduate until like three years into that job, because I took a longer pace track, because I could only do two classes at a time.
Speaker 2:But it wasn't until like I was in that role and in my MSW degree program did I really understand the magnitude of the profession that I had chosen and that my role was going to be way bigger than just giving people some bus passes and some child care. So I'll stop there, but that's my journey into social work. But yeah, I didn't come here a free will at first, but yeah, I'm actually kind of in a similar boat too.
Speaker 1:My experience with social work was similar. I had my bachelor's in psychology and then a social worker. I was working at a state residential facility for acute psychiatrics and a social worker took me under her wing and she was like you're going to be a social worker, you know like. She just was like really adamant about that. So, Mary Stacy, if you're out there, if you're listening I know she's around, she's still grinding, but she actually ended up being my supervisor for my internship too. So, yeah, so just a great influence. So shout out to all the social workers that are turning other people into future social workers. But yeah, it's like, once you're in, you're like everyone should be a social worker.
Speaker 1:Everyone can be a social worker. If you think about it, I mean, well, okay, maybe let me take that back a little bit, yeah, but yeah, I think we should all be caring for other humans.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Thank you Very much so, very much so, but yeah, so, so that's a really man like. There's a lot to you know. It just sounds like you. You were built for macro social work from the very beginning, almost, you know, like, but you didn't even know that it was really a thing, did you? So it's really crazy how all that, how that kind of transpired so. So I guess I'm sure some it's really crazy how all that kind of transpired. So I guess I'm sure some questions are going to come up of like so how do I get in macro social work? If you wanted to start from the ground floor, you know, let's say they're bachelors, they have a bachelor's degree and they want to get their master's in social work Maybe, what would you tell them? To give them some advice on becoming a macro social worker?
Speaker 2:Yeah, my biggest advice is to become a subject matter expert. So my name before like officially landing my first macro job was synonymous with the person who know how to get people jobs in the workforce development system. I won two statewide awards and one national award because I was doing the impossible in my region. I didn't realize it was such a big deal.
Speaker 2:And I didn't understand at that time why the CEO and the national directors and the regional leaders were making such a big deal about my job placements. It wasn't until years later, when I left that position and I learned about my city being the most economically segregated city in the nation, that I understand the magnitude of what I was doing. So with that, what with that, that time in that center made me a subject matter expert on connecting under-resourced populations and communities with quality employment. And so what I say to social workers who are still in case management, direct practice jobs, is to find the thing that you're good at and build a brand around that and you will forever be paid. And it's hard for social workers to do that, especially when you're in case management roles, because you're required to be the Jack and Jill of everything under the sun. They want you to move the sofas and bake the turkeys and get in counseling and do the things right. And so, for a lot of social workers, they cannot process the thought of focusing on one thing because they become so accustomed to being overworked. But my tip is find one thing, become really, really good at that thing and make certain that everybody knows that that's your thing and don't just pick a random thing off the list.
Speaker 2:Find the thing that makes you excited, like like me. You could tell I'm getting excited when I and joey, I'm sure you've been on the live of mine when I'm talking about jobs. I'll kick into a whole another gear, right, because I have a personal connection to years of not having good jobs, and so I understand how one good job can change your life. That's why I'm so excited to talk to you about the FIRE movement. So find something that you like, because a lot of social workers have settled in their careers and they're doing things that they don't like, that they actually can't tolerate, only because someone told them you can make good money doing it. But when I start talking to them about how much money they're making and I'm making good money and their, their career satisfaction is in the dumps they're racing in the dumps. So I would say find your one thing. Make certain that it's something that you are super passionate about.
Speaker 2:And that's how you create a career lane for yourself. And that's how you create a career lane for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I will say just from personal experience too, like when you get into social work and I didn't know much about the field that much to begin with. But the field is so broad, you know, like there's so many different directions you can go down, which is both a good and a bad thing depending on how you look at it. Like I'm kind of a paralysis analysis kind of person. Sometimes if I have too many choices, I don't know what to go down, what path to go down, and then a lot of times I feel like sometimes people or social work, new social workers, fresh grads, they take what they can get, and I was in that situation too. It was like I had bills to pay, I needed a job and so I took the first, basically the first place that would hire me. But you know, that's, that's, I guess that's kind of part of the industry now.
Speaker 1:But hopefully, with your advocacy and just trying to push for, you know, higher wages for social workers across the board, you know, maybe we won't, we won't have this, we won't have to worry about this. You know conversation, this, you know conversation, but it is definitely a concern for a lot of social workers and you know, I think you mentioned in some of your streams that they're even talking about this at the school level of, like you know, don't expect to make a whole lot of money. You know, like they're they're priming you for this and that's just. I just feel like that's just wrong. And, you know, hopefully, like I said, we can change the narrative and change the numbers. I mean, let's be real, we got to change the numbers, but yeah, so Let me add something to that.
Speaker 2:That's a great point that you just made Right. So I am a systems thinker. I had to acknowledge that. So one of the things that I always really push for people is yes, we would like for the system to change. We would like for the narrative to change around. Social workers made little to no money and that's just the way it's going to be. However, we got to create a workaround because that's not going to happen tomorrow. It might not even happen in the next decade or two.
Speaker 2:So my work around to students, especially if I could like wave a magical wand, it would be that when you are in your education degree program, remember why you went to go get a degree. It was to go get a better job. Yes, for people who have, like family support systems, who are well off, they go to school just to learn how to critically think and learn all day. However, for many of us, we're going as a means to an end, to go and increase our salary earning potential. However, what I see a lot of people do is get wrapped up in the idea of being a traditional student, where I just go to school and I just focus on my studies and that is just it. No, you should also be keeping in the forefront that the goal is to not just walk across the stage with your degree. It's also to walk across the stage with a job offer in your hand, and so, in order to do that, you have to be very strategic, from even the first step of choosing the degree program, about the steps that you're going to be taking to ensure that you get that. So that it looks like what degree program? Is this an in-demand degree program? Do they have job placement? Is it guaranteed job placement? What is their relationship with employers? Do they have a robust relationship with, like a system of employers that have graduate degree pathway? I mean graduate pathways where I can go straight into a job.
Speaker 2:The internships and practicum sites that you're choosing A lot of students and I've had the opportunity to talk to thousands at this point all around the world, thousands at this point all around the world they go into, like the practicum internship which we know every social work student has to do that in some way, shape form or fashion, and they go into it with.
Speaker 2:I'm just checking the box. My word of advice for you is to not do that, because your internship should be preparing you with the experience you need to get the type of job that you want. So if you let the people tell you we only have five the experience you need to get the type of job that you want. So if you let the people tell you we only have five sites and you have to pick from this list, you already are going the wrong way. Turn around, go back and start advocating for yourself and let the people know no, I want to practice on site that does blah, blah, blah, even if that requires you to go and do the lead like, and it's not even the relevant experience but the requisite knowledge to get the jobs that they want right. And so what that comes from is not having adequate experiential learning opportunities. That means you just took whatever they gave you and so you really set yourself up for failure, or let them set you up for failure.
Speaker 2:So you have to really be your own advocate, so I love that you brought that up. My theme for students would be be your first client. Don't wait until you're in the field.
Speaker 1:I like that. That's a good quote right there. Your first client. I like that. You gotta trademark that one. That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I mean, like I said, I started listening to podcasts about social work when I was in grad school and I wish I wish someone like I wish I'd stumbled upon that nugget of wisdom because I was the same way I, just I just along with. Well, we only have so many places for practicums, so I just did what I could and I took what I could get. But, looking back on it, I could have advocated and really fought for, okay, I want to do this in this field and I'm willing to move mountains to get there Because, like you said, it sets you up. It's like a domino effect of good things. So that's some great, great advice. So I appreciate you bringing that up. Well, so, so you got a lot on your plate and, uh, you know, you went from like, uh, macro, and then now you're kind of, you're doing the entrepreneurial thing. Are you still doing macro work or are you just purely entrepreneurial at this point?
Speaker 2:I'm full-time in my business, I consider myself to be a social entrepreneur, and that my work is is still on the macro level, um and? But I'm also a current phd candidate, so right now I'm fully engrossed in the research proposal phase. Joey, let's don't ask, don't ask me a question about that PhD program.
Speaker 1:You probably don't even want to think of those letters PhD anymore, and it's a message that started yesterday.
Speaker 2:One person, somebody's podcast. I went on and she asked me all of the questions. It was a Friday. I was like I don't want to think about that, but no yeah. So I'm a current PhD-time phd candidate, so I'm focused on that right now but yeah, I have a career goal with that my goal is. I have some long-term career goals. I won't get too far into it, but I will return to the workforce at some point.
Speaker 1:Yeah okay all right, but in the meantime you're, you're also mentoring and coaching and doing all this like you're, basically you're, you're single handedly helping the social profession, like all these new, all these entrepreneurial social workers. Because I mean, like let's be real, you know we got to pay the bills and you know we do have a good amount of skill sets and that that is marketable. So can you, can you talk to any aspiring entrepreneurial social workers and maybe give them some advice on how to get started?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually just started another coaching program. So I have two tracks to my business. I have a track for social workers who want to stay in a nine to five job. I have the micro to macro career accelerator program, and that's the program where I teach them in three months or less how to identify, apply, interview for their dream macro social work job. But then on the other track, I have those who want to become mission driven entrepreneurs, and so that program is called Passion to Profit and it's currently a six-week program and it's where I take them through the process of learning how to ideate a business, like how to come up with a business idea based solely on their intellectual property, the stuff they have up here.
Speaker 2:Because when I started my business journey, the problem that I kept coming against was that I came into contact with a lot of what I like to call universal entrepreneurs, people who were not mission driven, who I like Joey knows I like to talk real, regular, like people who will sell their soul for a dollar, and I was like all money and good money, I don't. I don't want to sell my cat for a dollar, like I don't want to sell my dog for a dollar. I don't know. I need to have meaningful, like a meaning or why, behind what I'm doing, and so I came up against a lot of walls. I spent a lot of money a lot of money on business coaching and what I realized was there was a very distinct difference between a mission driven entrepreneur and a universal entrepreneur. So what I've done is because of the years. I've been asked occasionally by social workers to like tell them how to start a business, and my response was always like I'm trying to figure it out myself. The only thing I can tell you is vet your business coach right, because I've invested a lot of money in business coaching. That was the benefit of having a good job, a good macro job. My employer was the silent investor in my business, so that was the only thing I was willing to tell people is I was still trying to figure it out on my own. However, I'm at the point now where I figured it out and it works for me as a mission-driven entrepreneur and it aligns with my owner's intent.
Speaker 2:I work really hard not to be a type A personality person which I had to be in call centers. You had to be perfect all the time or you would be called out about your errors in public forums. So I worked really hard to shift from the orange on the colors personality assessment. I'm now a blue and I don't ever want to go back to that. So I say that because my business aligns with that. Like I'm very big on moving in aligned flow, I don't do work that I don't want to do. I don't work with people that I don't want to work with. I only do things that feel good to my soul. So I started Passion to Profit to teach other social workers how to create aligned businesses as well yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's definitely something that that I want to explore too. Um, you know, because I think I commented on one of your your instagram videos of like uh, you know, said something about your dream macro job, and I was like, well, what if my dream macro job doesn't exist?
Speaker 1:you know, because I want to be a macro financial social worker and I was like, well, what if my dream macro job doesn't exist? You know, because I want to be a macro, financial social worker and I want to change the the like. You know, like my, my big vision is to change financial literacy for the good and, and you know, make it accessible and all that other stuff. But, like, as far as I know I mean I'm sure there are policy level jobs that deal with financial literacy and I've done a little bit of research into that but uh, but yeah, like, so it, what, what? What would you say to somebody who's like, maybe has this lofty vision? Um, and then they, you know, like they don't know where to even start yeah, I would first say that there's no one better than you, right?
Speaker 2:so that's why I was like it's time to start this, which it was always a part of my plan to eventually teach social workers how to be consultants. However, what I've found over my last five years in my entrepreneurial journey is that my impact is greater outside of the system. It's not to say that I won't ever which I do consult with organizations, but I find that I am most impactful outside of the system working with the future generation of leaders in my coaching, my career, coaching business. So what I would say to you, or someone like that, is you most definitely need clarity around what it is, how you want your, what you want your owner's intent of your business to be right. So what happens is how you want your, what you want your owner's intent of your business to be right. So what happens is sometimes people just make the goal revenue when in reality, that's not the real reason why they started their business. Some people may start their business to have time freedom. Others may start it to have autonomy. Others may start to have autonomy. Others may start to create bigger impact. So, with all that I just say get clear on what your owner's intent is for your business and then design a business based off of that. And be very careful and this is what I teach my coaching clients in the first cycle of passion, the first cohort of passion of profit cohort of passion of profit be very careful about the voices that you listen to, because the most dominant voices in, like the business space online, are universal entrepreneurs and they will lead you off a cliff and they will have you trying everything under the sun and it's not going to work for you because you're different. So you first want to have clarity around your owner's intent why you want your business, how you want your business to feel, who you want your business to serve, and then also like who is your ideal client? Who do you want to work with? Want to work with?
Speaker 2:So what I've seen over the years, when social workers would jump in my inbox and ask me about helping them start a business, one of the biggest issues that I saw repeatedly was that they were approaching their business development the way they have to show up in their social work career. So in your micro social work career, you have to work with the most under-resourced populations and communities. However, when you are in a business that does not translate to dollars because those people won't be able to pay your fees right. So you have to get very creative and clear around who will pay your fee and understand that you are running a for-profit business and not a non-profit. That's another thing where I see social workers struggle. They run their business like a non-profit. Um, and a lot of them also.
Speaker 2:Like you mentioned earlier, there are tons of social work entrepreneurs online. However, they run their business like it's just a hobby, when my belief is, if you're pouring your sweat equity, your intellectual property, the things that you became very knowledgeable about over the years, you should be adequately compensated for that. So I see a lot of social workers approaching their business like they do their social work career and it's sometimes hard for them to put their business hat on. And again, talking about how the dots connect, my undergrad degree is in business and marketing. I wanted to work in corporate. I used to do hair back in the day and I was like I want to do marketing for a hair care company. But I understand now like that was a dot that was preparing me for where I am now. So a lot of social workers struggle with putting the business hat on. So with my current coaching clients and Passion of Profit is really helping them think from a business mindset.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I hope I answered your question Absolutely and actually it makes me think I've talked about this with other social workers too is that you know, a lot of us entrepreneurial social workers are driven by the lower pay and, like you said, all those factors, but then in social work school, like they don't teach us business stuff, you know, and this is common in the mental health and mental health world too, like you know, therapists don't really know how to run a business necessarily. So so, yeah, I definitely feel that and I'm I'm kind of, I feel not not attacked, but I do feel like you were talking about me and a lot of that what you were saying, but in a good way, because it's like I've learned some of those things too. I've learned some lessons the hard way. I've consulted with some, you know, business coaches that didn't have my best interests at heart and so, yeah, so I guess I would just say, you know, or maybe we could talk about for those entrepreneurial social workers, yeah, like you said to, to kind of drill down on your vision, but then you're also going to have to potentially, um, you know, strengthen a muscle that you don't even have, or build a muscle, you know so. So business mind is I don't have a business mind, or like when you say, put on your business hat, I'm like, well, I don't, there's a hat. I didn't know there was a hat, so but yeah, so like I'm learning that stuff like kind of like painfully sometimes, but but like I'm just grateful that there are people like you out there that are actually giving back and like sharing your knowledge, cause you have a very unique background and experience.
Speaker 1:That so, um, yeah, I just, you know, I just hope that, um, somehow people will find their way to you much sooner in their careers. Um, then, you know, like, because I'm only I've been a social worker for a little over a year and I'm already looking, you know, like many steps ahead. But I think that there's probably a lot of social workers out there and aspiring social workers who who maybe feel overwhelmed and they don't, you know, they're just like you know. But going back to that analysis process, you know like there's too many, too many trajectories that you can go, go on, that. You can go, go on, um, but yeah, I mean, uh, I think you know you've given some really just great nuggets so far and I just uh, and I just I just appreciate like I should have had you on, like, uh, since day one, you know, on this on the show, but, uh, probably gonna have to have you on multiple times if, if, well, whenever your schedule is open, because I know that's going to be a crazy, crazy thing to try to navigate, but yeah, so, okay.
Speaker 1:So we were talking about a little bit about the FIRE movement and you know, obviously, as the FIRE social worker, I'm big on personal finance. I'm big on the FIRE movement and you know part of my whole, you know mission statement or mission is to try to help people with their finances, but then also document, like, okay, I'm on my own mid-journey of fire and you know what, you know what does that look like? And but you know like what, as far as your like, do you have any good financial advice, you know, for social workers that you would like to impart?
Speaker 2:maybe, and we can talk about that a little bit- yeah, my piece of advice is get your one good paying job and it will change your life. And because what I see is a lot of social workers go about their job search by looking at what are the credentials required for the job and not taking into account, like, what do they need for the totality of their life, right? So I talk about that in the context of looking at every area of your life, but specifically financial Right. And so how you do that is by not just looking at the salary but looking at the compensation packages. By not just looking at the salary but looking at the compensation packages. Are they robust enough to support how you want to live, how you need to live? What does the 401k match look like? Is there an investment option where they'll give you a piece of the company?
Speaker 2:For the therapy clinicians I'm not clinical Joey, so I sometimes use the words wrong, but I know they love to work with mental health tech startups you need to be looking at. Are they going to give you a piece of that company? You need to be looking at, like what are the healthcare benefits? These are the things that I teach my coaching clients before they even hit apply. We don't do it once the job offer is made and you're on a job and then you find out this health insurance is trash. We all, as subcase workers, have worked at a nonprofit where the health insurance was complete trash. I worked at one.
Speaker 2:So, these are things that you are supposed to be looking at before you even hit apply and I teach my coaching clients that because it impacts your life. And then, even outside of the compensation package, what are like the time off benefits, like PTO, lead policy, things like that sick leave policy? You also want to look at the things that are not tangible to physical dollars. What does the work from home policy look like? Well, do they give you tuition reimbursement? Will they cover your tuition costs? Do they have tuition waivers?
Speaker 2:Like all of those years that I stayed in state government, that was a strategic move. It wasn't just because I love it here, it was because they were paying for my schooling. A lot of it I had to pay out of pocket because I flunked out miserably when I first went out of high school, but a lot of it was waived by my state and it was strategic. Like I learned that the state will pay for you to go back to school. I'm going over there. Say less what I need to do, right, so things like that. So I would say that get you one good job and don't be short sighted. That's why I say you have to look at more than just the salary.
Speaker 2:I had a. I did a podcast recording yesterday or the day before with one of my micro to macro career accelerator alum. That's my career coaching program and his name is Alec. That's my career coaching program and his name is Alec, and he was talking about how he's thriving in his life and this is the most money he's ever made and how he's able to pay all of his monthly bills out of one paycheck. I said, doesn't that feel good?
Speaker 2:I remember when that first happened to me with my first macro job. I was like what is going on here and you still have money left over you have money to save, you have money to invest Right. One good paying job will change your life, and so that's what I encourage for people on their financial journey. Instead of looking at 50 million different side hustles which social workers like to do do find you one good quality job and put, put, put your efforts, your soul into that job.
Speaker 1:Basically, yeah, because I think we do get distracted. Shiny object syndrome, you know this this new thing is is popping off. So yeah, I definitely feel that, um and uh, you know, that's some, some great, great advice too. Oh, another thing that I thought of while you were talking was supervision for social workers that are trying to get their LCSW.
Speaker 1:Some companies will pay, or at least reimburse you, and I'm actually working on that right now with my companies that they're going to. You know, some places have in-house supervision which will go towards your clinical hours and it's all already, you know, in-house, so that's easy. But then some companies will pay or reimburse you for supervision hours towards your LCSW. So, um, yeah, just little things like that. You know, like I would have never thought to ask that, but I've started asking that in my interviews. I'm like you know like what? What are some of these other fringe benefits or intangibles like you're saying?
Speaker 1:um so, yeah, it's definitely you want to go in there fully informed to your, to your interviews, like knowing, knowing the market, knowing how much you're worth um. But speaking of knowing how much you're worth um, do you get any tips for um this? You know tips for social workers in the negotiation space, because I'm a little, I'm not the greatest negotiator, but I'm getting better. So what are some good tips for it?
Speaker 2:And that's what popped up in my mind when you were talking about that. Most definitely, negotiate everything, negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. I know a lot of social workers like to tell y'all to network for jobs. I don't teach networking, but what I do say is negotiate, negotiate, negotiate. Um. And so what I? I give a resource to my coaching clients, um of the AAUW, which is an organization that teaches you. They have a self-paced course that teaches you how to do salary negotiations and it's worked for my coaching clients. I have coaching clients that have negotiated their salaries over like $30,000 more than what was initially being offered. So it works and it's free. But most definitely negotiate everything. If they're unwilling which for macro employers, because that's what I specialize in they're always open to negotiate because their budgets are much bigger than micro employers. But if you're interviewing for a micro job and they're like we don't have any money, then find something else to negotiate. Maybe you can negotiate a flexible schedule. Maybe you can negotiate a flexible schedule.
Speaker 2:There was a point where I moved, when I moved from state government to my workforce development job, that wasn't in the state government system anymore. One of the things that I was able to negotiate on campus in my class at 5 pm, right, instead of getting off at 5 pm and then getting here at 530, because my professors did not tolerate being late, and so that is something that I negotiated and, again, it wasn't tangible dollars, but it's resulted in more dollars for me in my lifetime earning potential, because it allowed me to go get my degree, and I made a lot of money for that degree. So you have to not, you can't just be short sighted and I say that because I've been there before where you're just trying to pay the bills. But one thing I've learned about social workers, though, is that you all are very ambitious. You're high achievers, the ones that you know. Connect with me If you've listened this long to this episode that means you connect to something that we're talking about.
Speaker 1:One thing.
Speaker 2:I know about you you are a high achiever, so with that you have lots of goals for yourself. So again, if you can't negotiate the pay, lots of goals for yourself. So again, if you can't negotiate the pay, negotiate something else. Joey just gave a good example of supervision hours. Maybe, like for me, when I went, it was my own. I only had two case management jobs. So my second case management job was at a DV shelter where I was a transitional housing program coordinator and I managed three scattered site housing sites and so I specifically took that job because it gave me the flexibility to create my own schedule. All right.
Speaker 2:And so why that was important to me is because my daughter at the time was getting ready to enter 11th grade and she had already created the education plan of doing dual enrollment enter 11th grade and she had already created the education plan of doing dual enrollment. In 11th grade we do annual family planning. She told me that ninth grade and 11th grade I'm going to be doing dual enrollment to become a certified pastry chef. So I had it on my career plan before the end of 10th grade that I will get another job where I have flexibility to leave and come as I want, because I would have to pick her up in the middle of the day from high school and take her over to the college campus and then pick her up before the end of my work shift and take her back home, and that was important to me as a single parent.
Speaker 2:So, again, negotiation isn't always dollars and the value of that alone. If I had to put a dollar amount to it, it's out of this world, because now my daughter is a pastry chef. She's had multiple jobs. She went to college to, you know, get a business degree around it, so it was invaluable. So if they can't negotiate with you in dollars, there's something else that you need flexibility on and don't be afraid to ask for it, especially because, again, the people that engage with me, you all, are superstars and it's time to leverage that superstar stuff, that star power that you're giving off at your job.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean I will say from all the social workers that I've come across, you know it takes a special kind of person to basically step up and want to do something like this, because it's not always, it's kind of a thankless job sometimes, but it's also very fulfilling and rewarding and then, especially for a lot of people knowing that you're not going to get paid that much money respective to other jobs with a master's degree. So it, yeah, it does take a certain kind of person, and I've just been a big advocate since the beginning of you know companies need to start stepping up and paying social workers their fair share. You know we're highly educated, we're diverse, talented and driven and just big-hearted people usually. So, yeah, it sounds like you've got a whole dynasty going on in your household. Your daughter's thinking four years ahead of time. That's impressive. Better watch out, because the Pitts family is going to be knocking on doors here soon. That's crazy. That's impressive.
Speaker 2:I'm a huge advocate for career plans. You need a plan.
Speaker 1:Even if it's a baby plan, you need a plan. Yeah, very first day of school, of grad school, is like all right, what, what do you want to specialize in? And at that point I was like I don't know, I don't know yet, you know, but I think they were trying to get us to think about okay, yeah, you're gonna need to kind of specialize a little bit, like you're saying, and become a subject matter expert, and I think a lot, of, a lot of social workers and maybe just young people in general, they don't really know what they want to do just yet, or they, you know. But yeah, so it's.
Speaker 1:It's just really cool to see, like you know, your, your skillset in action, not just for yourself and your clients, but even your daughter. Like, I mean, I'm just blown away, I'm just, I can't, I don't know words, but I'm just, yeah, I'm just a big, I guess, a fan boy at this point. Respect the game, I guess. One thing I did want to ask about is a little bit I don't know a little meta, but the future of social work. Let's say, somebody's jumping into social work or they're thinking about social work. Do you see anything happening, like with the world of, like AI and things like that. Like, do you think that we you know, social work, young social workers need to be, like, well-versed in AI, or what do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't believe in coincidences, but the same interview that I talked about doing with one of my alum of my program, alec. The job that he landed was as a learning specialist for data governance and so, and what I was talking to him about, which he already knew there from working with me data sharing is a hot button issue for national employers, national macro organizations right, because everyone's interested in helping to or trying to figure out how to solve these bigger issues, the systems level issues. However, they are extremely concerned with how people's information is going to be protected and used. Information is going to be protected and used, so most definitely social workers. That's interested in, like data governance, and even the integration of AI to help streamline services and organizations and businesses is going to be on the rise. I always I love a good case study and there's this case study that I use with my coaching clients of a social worker who works with IBM and what she does with IBM is and this is she's been with them for years at this point the SME the SME the subject matter expert and helps them develop, design and sell software and packages to child welfare organizations around the country on how to streamline their case management, like service delivery notes, taking things like that right. And so that was my first touch of like technology and the integration of a social worker, and what I anticipate is that the need for that will be great.
Speaker 2:What I would love is to see yes, we need clinicians and clinician type roles, but I would love to see more of our clinical therapists looking at the administrative side of work in tech organizations. Right, that's another big struggle that I see with social workers. They only see themselves as practitioners. However, we can be on the other side of the house and, ironically enough, because I specialize in STEM careers for youth and young adults, that's my workforce development hat, my macro hat.
Speaker 2:There are way more admin jobs in tech organizations and STEM organizations than there are technician jobs, so they need people in those support roles and it's hard for them to fill because no one knows that they're available. They only think about the technician. So I just see that being a huge lane that social workers can fill, especially because a lot of organizations really are becoming more mission-driven in their creation of widgets and products and services. Yeah, a large part of that is part of their corporate social responsibility guidelines, but also a lot of them are just concerned about it. So, yeah, I see it being a huge opportunity. With the incoming administration, I see it becoming even more of a huge opportunity, and so, like the lane is open and my biggest challenge for social workers this year is to stop sitting back and letting the loudest people in the room lead all of the conversations.
Speaker 2:And when I say the room, I'm not just talking about in your eight to five. I'm talking about out in the world, on social media, because people are being led astray by a lot of misinformation and it's really time for the people who are passion-filled, mission-driven, who have some like whatever the relevant experience, even if it's personal relevant experience to really be the loudest ones in the room, because people are hurting and they're looking for resolutions, they're looking for solutions, and I know that a lot of us are like focused on just the nine to five or maybe we're struggling with our introversion, but it's time for you to open your mouth. The people need you. So I really been challenging my coaching clients to do more of that publicly outside of their nine to five. Um, so yeah, that's my challenge. So, whatever your thing is. So joey with you in the fire movie, we should. You should be everywhere talking about that. And again, I know you talk to veterans and social workers. I love it. What other organizations can we get you in? What other spaces?
Speaker 1:are you?
Speaker 2:on Talking to the people that you know. Those are just me thinking out loud. I'm sure you are.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, it's funny that you say that because, you know, I do have a little bit of an initiative that I'm working on called WealthQuest and it's just I don't know if that that's a, I don't know if it's an available name, I think it is, but it's basically going to be a financial literacy video game I started. There's a non-profit called vets who code, and I'm I'm going to work with them to try to learn how to code and build this from scratch, if I can and, um, you know, be be a part of that. You know, like you were saying, be a part of the, the solution, and really it's just the passion for me, and I've been a gamer for forever and just love it.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of a merging of fashions like gaming and then financial literacy, and you know that's where it's where a lot of like. Also, video game therapy is something that I've been researching lately, so just trying to. You know, I'm a very tech nerd type of person. So that's when you said IBM, I was like whoa, I need to, I need to update my resume because apparently if there's social workers at IBM, then that's where I need to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and in the like media arts I call arts, but like media, media arts industries they have huge. They don't. Of course, these are not jobs, they just say for social workers, they're for anyone. However, they are aligned with what social workers like to do. So a part of what the work that I do, which I really like love to do, is clarity work with people, helping them getting clear about what they want to do in their career and what they want to do in their business, but specifically doing it by looking out there at their outside passions and how to infuse that.
Speaker 2:So to hear you talk about, like in my free time I'm a gamer, oh, that made sense, why you want to create it, right. But then also we can take it even further, to like this is on the nine-to-five type side of the house, like teach you how to talk. What employers would hire you to do something like that in-house for them, and then even on the business side, organizations that you can come in and consult on the thing. And you talked about the analysis, paralysis, like. I love that. The biggest issue that I see with social workers is, like hesitancy to take action, and I be guilty of this in the beginning of my entrepreneurial journey, feeling like everything has to be perfect, it has to be lined up. I actually had a 45-minute call with a friend earlier today and it's some stuff I've been telling him for the last two months and it's just like just do it, why are we still talking? But it has to be like this and you are missing time and opportunity.
Speaker 2:So I say that to say take action, even when it's imperfect. Right On my social media page, my stuff is not grade A like compared to other people's content, but I'm taking action, I'm impacting people, I'm getting people to sign up for my services, I'm educating, so I would leave that for whoever's listening, also for you. I love that. But what can we be doing today, like, what can we do right now with what you have in your hands? Yes, because again, the people need it and I love that.
Speaker 2:The game idea. Oh, that's a great idea.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, I've heard some good advice I got early on was start messy, you know, and then and then things you know, as you get more reps in, as you get better, you'll start to get better equipment or you'll do this differently. And I mean, yeah, I'm still plenty messy, but I definitely look back on my earlier stuff and I'm like, oh, that was rough, but you know, you got to start somewhere. And then it also gives you like, when you do do look back on it, you're like, wow, I actually made some improvements, I've grown a little bit, I've gotten a little bit better, and things like that. So, yeah, so any aspiring entrepreneurial, social workers or just anybody, I guess at that point, yeah, like you're saying, don't wait until it's perfect, Just go out there and do it and then iterate, improve and just get yourself out there Because, yeah, you're wasting time. That's a great point. You're wasting time at this point. So, wow.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, we've covered a whole spectrum of things. I love this conversation and there's probably I'll probably think of a hundred different things to ask you after we get off the stream. But so let's just recap a little bit about okay, so you have a lot on your plate and you're a busy person. But where could we direct people to get to you if they want to, like you know, get you and get your time? Where can they, where can they go to to get you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so right here in the little blue bubble where my name is, my my Web site is the first place to go to, is macro and paid dot com because we get paid as macro social workers. It's called macroandpaidcom because we get paid as macro social workers. I don't know that whole whatever the saying is impact over income. I don't even know it because I know what you're saying, we're not in it.
Speaker 1:No, it doesn't apply to us.
Speaker 2:So we're macro and paid. So the first place that you should go to is there. I have a free e-course. It's the second link on my website and it's the labor of love. It's my free gift to you. It's where I break down everything there is to know about macro social work what it is, what it entails, job titles because I know y'all love those salary ranges. I give you some examples of employers, scope of work. I even give you homework, because I wouldn't be the MSW coach if I didn't give you homework. I give you a lot of resources, a lot of information to really immerse yourself, to learn about this other elusive side of the social work profession, because I've demystified it. Every myth, every lie, that's what I like to call it. Every lie you've ever heard about macro level work it's not true, and I've demystified it. Every myth, every lie, that's what I like to call it. Every lie you've ever heard about macro level work it's not true and I've demystified it.
Speaker 2:I've helped well over 180 social workers land macro jobs where they have skilled, their salaries and their impact and they're thriving, not just in their job but outside of work work. We have had quite a few um career accelerator babies, marriages, new home, becoming first-time home buyers. My coaching clients travel internationally and domestically regularly. The day I was on instagram and saw one of my coaching clients who landed a macro job. She does sports, social, but she landed a job in the macro space around NCAA compliance because that's what she's passionate about, and she was in Africa glowing. And another one of my coaching clients was in Greece the other day.
Speaker 2:So we really are thriving and that's what I'm on a mission to do is to help more change makers get into jobs where they can get as proximate to power as possible to create the small changes that are needed to really support the populations, the issues that they're most passionate about. So, if you're interested, at least start with a free e-course. That's a great place to start to arm yourself with some requisite information and then, in that, I give you links out to my podcast. I do have a podcast as well, but the e-course is the place to start.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, I mean it sounds like you've got this amazing ripple effect that's happened with all your clients and who knows, like, all the things that they're about, all the great things that they're going to do or are doing, have done, man, I'm just that's, that's macro social work, right there, I love that and uh, that, that, really, that lights a fire in me. You know, like I'm just like man, I gotta do more. You know, like I I'm no, you got me fired up, so I appreciate that so much. Um, and, yeah, if anyone is is interested in, uh, in working with marthia, I mean just, I can't say enough great things about, about her.
Speaker 1:So, uh, if you're listening, check out macro and paidcom, uh, check out her youtube and, and I mean she's all over the place, so you can't, you can't, avoid her at this point, she's everywhere, which is awesome. Um, so, all right, well, I mean, uh, I guess, uh, man, I don't even know where else to go from here, but uh, I guess, uh, any last parting words for for the audience and yeah, we'll just kind of end it from there, I guess most definitely.
Speaker 2:I would highly encourage you to be a part of whatever joy is offering, because what and I was telling someone this the other day what was pivotal for me was seeing my numbers on paper, like how much I needed to at least pay, because my relationship with money ain't always been good, because I didn't make money, um, so I used to have dread going into my bank account because I knew I had bounce checks in there and all the different types of things and severely overdrafted. I had years and years of doing payday loans and just a bad relationship with my money. And I actually hired a budget coach because I didn't even like to and it brought up a lot of stuff for me. I've had a lot of. Also on your entrepreneurial journey, gotta get a lot of counseling because it brings up stuff. But it would like give me anxiety and I would be on the calls and she would be doing the spreadsheet for me. She was like are you ready to do it yourself? No, no, I don't know, I don't want to look at it. Um and so, but it was one day we were meeting I'll never forget. It was two years ago at this point and she had calculated my monthly expenses for that month we had went through when the bills were going to be drafted and all of the things told her.
Speaker 2:I was like one of my business coaches said I really need to project to figure out how much I need to bring in my business to fund my business and my personal life, where I can at least be comfortable. And I was like can you help me do that? And she was like, yeah, I can help you do it. And she's like an ex-banking person. She's been years in banking so she loves to whip up a good, good Excel spreadsheet. So she put it all together and she was like this is how much you need.
Speaker 2:And when I saw it I was like that's all I need. I in my mind I thought it was like thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, maybe a good, like high five figure number. And when I saw the number, I was good, like high five-figure number. And when I saw the number I was like, oh, I can do that. And ever since then I've been hitting it and exceeding it and it was something in the power of seeing the number on the paper, absolutely. And it wasn't like, oh, I'm going to go create the goal. It wasn't even that, it was just something in the power of seeing the number that changed my life, that made it more realistic for me.
Speaker 1:If that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So with that I would just say for those listening, if your relationship with your money ain't that great, because I've been there, done that, I would encourage you to work on it, because a lot of what keeps us from having more in our life financially is the fear in the old systems that we've had to adopt to live Like I'm very clear with people, very transparent with people like my life has not been a golden light pathway to Oz, not been a a golden light pathway to oz. It's been filled with a lot of turmoil, a lot being a formal, a former um, houseless teenager, like all of the things, a young mother. It's just been filled with a lot of hardship.
Speaker 2:So I say that to say like I was operating on a lot of old systems that kept me afloat, like I was really good, thriving, but in order to learn new ways to live and new ways to operate, I had to first look at my money and get a better relationship with it. So I love the work you're doing, so my thing that I would leave is do whatever Joey tells you to do, because it does start with your relationship with your money. And once you get comfortable with your money, you then become fearless, and I'm going to tell this quick story.
Speaker 1:Joy because I love this story I told my friend.
Speaker 2:it probably was like a year or so ago. I was coming up for renewal in my apartment and normally I just sign on whatever they send me Like. I don't ask no questions, because it's like I don't want, even though I'm making good money. At this point my mind was still in lack, like I normally don't do anything to rock the boat, even though I've like never been kicked out or beat or anything, it's just always in a place of lack.
Speaker 2:So, the leasing agent sent the renewal notice and on the notice she had the rate that would have been my rate had I renewed late. But I didn't renew late and I remember talking to her and I was like and basically advocating for myself on the phone and I was like I'm not paying that because I renewed within the deadline and that should be corrected. And she was telling me all the reasons as to why it wasn't going to be changed, things like that. And I remember my phone saying I'm not going to pay that so I'll just wait for a manager from the corporate office to call me. And she didn't even get anybody to call me. She immediately just fixed it and sent me an email.
Speaker 2:But I remember getting like going through that and then being on a friend with one of my home girls and I was like I think something is happening with me. I said because I would have never done that, but now that my money is good and I got money to go wherever I want, so even if I have to leave here because they don't want to give me the rate that I need, I know I have the financial resources to do that I show up bigger and bolder. That's the point of that story and.
Speaker 2:I don't see people miss, because I know I have the money to fund my life, and so money really is a tool to live, and your goal doesn't have to be I want to make millions, that is, that's great, but your goal should at least be to live comfortable and to have the resources, the tools that you need to do that. So I encourage you to look at your money, do whatever Joey is telling you and get you one good job or start your one good business, and it will change your life.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that and I mean, like you mentioned earlier, you said that you know, you don't, you didn't want to deal with your money but you outsourced it and you found somebody that was kind of willing to help with you. So you know, in that sense, find a friend or a family member that you know is really money savvy and ask them questions. You know, just talk to them. You'd be surprised. Like they are willing to, they love more likely they love talking about money anyways. Like they are willing to, they love more likely they love talking about money anyways. So that's the kind of person that you need to talk to and be like they will talk your ear off to try to fix your finances for you. So just find somebody that's nerdy about money like me, and then I will go through your numbers and I will fix them for you.
Speaker 2:That's a service, Joey. Yes, let's monetize it yes. When are you going to sell it? Herpes, joey, let's monetize it?
Speaker 1:When are you going to sell it? Well, I mean, I'm already doing financial coaching, but I don't really advertise it that much.
Speaker 2:Oh, sign up for Joey's coaching y'all Immediately, oh man.
Speaker 1:All right.
Speaker 2:Yes. I'm not really a great salesman for my own services. Yeah, I'm going to have to give Joey a pep talk when we end this call.
Speaker 1:Oh man, all services. So I'm gonna have to give joey a pep talk when we end this call. Oh man, all right. Well, um, marthia, I mean this has been a great conversation. Uh, I don't even want it to end, but I know you're a busy person. Uh, I've got a little five-year-old that's probably looking for, uh, some daddy time, so, um, so, yeah, I think that's a good time, a good spot to end it on. But, once again, thank you for your time. I know your time is very important and you know, just once again, all the people listening check out macroandpaidcom, do their e-course. You know, book her if you feel so inclined. I hope you do. But that's going to be it for this show, this episode. Stay tuned for more episodes and if you're a social worker and you're interested in being on the show, uh, just hit me up, send me a direct message and we'll take it from there. But, uh, that's pretty much everything. Um, I appreciate it, marthea, and uh, we will catch you guys on the next stream.
Speaker 2:Bye.
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