Expressing Our Own Humanity (with Nico Lang)

In this episode, we chat with journalist Nico Lang about their entry into journalism and their book 'American Teenagers.' Nico emphasizes the power of telling queer stories and the need for empathy to counteract harmful political rhetoric against trans youth. The conversation covers the importance of public support for independent journalism, the challenges of achieving authentic queer representation, and the necessity of recognizing the humanity and rights of queer and trans individuals. We also discuss how to actively support LGBTQ+ communities through voting, activism, and supporting queer-owned platforms.

Nico’s Book:

American Teenager: How Trans Kids Are Surviving Hate and Finding Joy in a Turbulent Era

Where to Find Nico

Queer News Daily on Instagram and Patreon

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links to our Bookshop store that supports this Black-owned bookseller committed to liberation.

Thank you for being part of the Liberation is Lit podcast! If you have stories to share, want to suggest topics, or just want to connect, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @liberationislit or visit our website at liberationislit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review! Remember, your voice matters, and together, through the lens of stories, we're making a difference in the world.

Transcript

Tayler Simon: 0:05

Welcome to the Liberation is Lit Podcast, where the power of storytelling meets the force of social change. My name is Tayler Simon, and I'm your host. And in this podcast, we believe in the profound impact of stories. And I'm so happy that I get to meet journalist Nico Lang. And we're going to have a conversation about the new book, American Teenagers. So thank you so much for joining the podcast, Nico.

Nico Lang: 0:33

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Sure.

Tayler Simon: 0:36

So to kick us off, can you tell us a little bit about you and your journey as a journalist and storyteller?

Nico Lang: 0:43

So I didn't like a lot of journalists. I didn't come into this, through a traditional journalism channel. I don't think I ever, you know, I don't know what it is, if it was like imposter syndrome, or Or just like growing up really poor. I don't know if I saw this as being like a life for myself that I could have. You know, it didn't really seem like an opportunity, that was available to me. I took, I started out in school doing film and journalism and I found that I didn't want to make movies. I just liked watching them and writing about them. I just really wanted to write. And after a semester of journalism school, My professor told me that, oh, if you know, if you're interested in writing about the world, you should probably go experience at 1st. So I switch to a different program on in addition to that. So I did international studies for my undergrad and I thought maybe I would go back to, to do it in grad school. But I think the issue was is I didn't know how to make money from it, and I didn't really have any connections. I just didn't know how I would ever break into the industry. All the people I knew that were doing well in journalism from doing an undergrad had these cushy internships, or they went to fancy schools, or their parents had money. There were just all these ways that these doors were open for them, and I just didn't see that for myself. I've just never been the kind of person who has doors opened for me, or like, has enough connections built in through generational wealth to where that work is done for you. So I just didn't think I'd be able to make that happen for me. So I did something else for grad school. I went to grad school for, for, it was like a film program with a focus on social media and documentary was sort of like my minor, if you were, or my concentration. And during that Time I had started a blog that was sort of like for my friends and myself. It was like a queer blog where we talked about issues that were important to us. And through that, I got an opportunity working for NPR in college. So, in grad school, and that was great because that's really what I would have wanted to do. And it was like, oh, well, I guess I don't need to do grad school anymore, except I still finished because I was like, you know. Well, we're here. We might as well just get the degree anyway. And that opportunity just kind of like one thing led to another to another. And even then, I mean, what I started out doing wasn't like journalism in the traditional sense. It was more like blogging or like commentary because I still like, I still even at that point, you know, I was working for this place in which I should be envisioning myself as a journalist. Right? The door opened. You made it girl. And I still , can't get this in my head that like, this is like a possibility for you now. It still took several years before I think it took it like seriously enough or took myself seriously enough or like believed in myself to know that I could do this. So I think around 2016 when Trump, you know, declared his candidacy. And, and was doing a lot better than we all thought. I got, I just gotten a job doing, I think my first real like journalism gig with the advocate making like 35 an article. And at that time, I was just realizing how much of a need there was to tell queer stories and how. The work that I've been doing before I really liked, but just didn't speak to me as much as just helping queer people who are impacted by impacted by anti LGBT legislation and by this turning rightward rhetoric, helping them tell their stories and giving them a platform. And since then, for the past 8 years, that's really what I've dedicated my life to. I didn't get a day off during the Trump presidency, and I thought that I would get 1 off. During like Biden, but that hasn't really happened yet. So it's just, you know, it's just hustling all the time to tell as many stories as possible, because I always hope that by hearing about the queer folks who are impacted by the bad decisions for our government, whether that's like the federal government under Trump or state governments, you know, under the Biden administration, then we can maybe one day learn to stop doing this that hasn't happened yet, but I still have hope.

Tayler Simon: 4:30

Yeah, maybe one day. We can all have hope. So let's talk about your book, American Teenager. What inspired you to write it? And how did you find the stories about the teens that you wrote about in the book?

Nico Lang: 4:45

Sure. So in 2021, there was this bill that was put forward in Texas that if signed into law, it would have labeled parents of trans kids as being child abusers if they allow their kids to socially or medically transition. So that basically means that if you affirm your kid at all as being trans, that you're a child abuser, if that had been signed into law, it wasn't. Texas sort of went, Through the back door on the following year, and the governor issued this executive order that ordered the child welfare agency to investigate all families of trans kids across the state. It was a huge mess. But the year before, when that bill was introduced, a mom in Texas called me and we were talking over the phone. She is sort of pacing around the lawn as. She had a glass of wine in her hand in her bathrobe, and she was just so devastated by this by what her state was doing to her that she could go to jail. She could be jailed just supporting for supporting her daughter and her daughter's right to be who she is and just hearing the devastation and her voice I felt like I wanted to do something or to comfort her in some way, and I just didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to say. And for me, this book is my response to that because I feel like we've lost any sense of good faith in the conversation that I always felt like at some level. That Republicans just needed to be educated on trans issues, right, that they just had bad information, and they needed it to be replaced with good information, right? And through that, there's education we can do. Me as a journalist, I can educate people. That's my job, right, is to get education out to the public. But then I learned what we were really up against, because if we don't have even a modicum of good faith in the conversation, there's not anywhere that I can go. Can go if you've already made up in your mind that like parents of trans kids or child abusers, I can't really convince you that actually they're loving families who support their kids and just want the best for you. So, in order to advance that conversation at all, we have to somehow instill good faith in the conversation. And to me, that's what the book is about. The book is about, you know, I follow. These kids in seven different states, seven families of trans kids in seven states for two and a half weeks to show you what their lives are like, to show you that they're not that different from you. They go to the grocery store and they worry about how they're going to pay their bills. Sometimes they go on family trips, they like play board games, they eat dinner together. Their families aren't that different than yours. They're like these differences in like the kinds of healthcare that their kids get and the specific journey that their kids go on in terms of their gender. But so much of it is the same, so much of it, you know, you can recognize your own life in these people's lives, your own experiences and their experiences. And I think when we do that, we can build empathy and through building empathy, it then makes people human. in a way that I don't think we're seeing in our political environment right now. There's just so much dehumanization and dehumanizing rhetoric, because I don't think Republicans want to see these folks as human. If you're introducing a kind of bill that says they're child abusers, right? You don't want to see parents of trans kids as human. You don't want to see like these kids as human. But with this book, I wanted to do everything that I can To make that dehumanization process as difficult as possible, because the more that we put these families out there, the more that they show that we show that they're just normal people trying to, get by through their day. Then we learn to care about them, you know, we learned that they're a part of their community. We learned that, if we just knew them, we'd probably love them just as much as I got to love them doing this book. So, when people read this book, I do hope that they just get to fall in love with these families a little bit. Because they're quite wonderful people. So, I really hope that that comes through.

Tayler Simon: 8:26

And you just distilled, the exact reason why I wanted to start Liberation is Lit, because I feel like they're It's so much dehumanization, everything that we see in the media currently and the stories and the narratives that we hear, it's all a part of dehumanization, but also erasing these stories and banning the books and labeling these experiences as obscene is a way of dehumanization. And that's why I prioritize. Platforming these stories and so what you said, it resonated with me so deeply and we're going through similar things in South Carolina, with awful legislation that unfortunately passed that is limiting. Trans, youth from receiving necessary health care, but also they're slipping in things like, oh, if a teacher suspects, one of their students is trans, then we have to make a report and things like that. And especially for trans kids who aren't safe being themselves at home, that could be very dangerous. And so this book is very timely as states across the country are. stripping rights from trans people, especially trans youth. Aside from like the storytelling and the building empathy, how do you, how else do you hope this book influences that negative trajectory that we're currently on?

Nico Lang: 9:56

Well, unfortunately, there's only so much I can do. I wish I could do a lot more. Because, you know, it's, it's funny because people ask me, Oh, do you hope that this, changed policies or changes the minds of these, horrible Republican lawmakers? And, you know, Tayler, I wish I had that power, right? Wouldn't that be nice if any one of us just, you could just wave your magic wand and change everybody's minds. I do hope that this has an impact, but I also know that, as I noted before, these people kind of don't want to learn, and you see this all the time. So, in the book, Micah, who's a Black genderfluid teen in West Virginia, Went to the legislature with their friends to testify against a general gender firming medical care ban targeting youth right that law passed anyway. And, you know, it's devastating for kids and families who live there, but that day, they were all trying to stop it and they got up and very bravely. Spoke against the bill talking about how it impact would impact them would impact their lives would impact their friends lives. They were really explicit about the fact that this will increase suicidal ideation. It could lead to people taking their own lives and they don't want to have to bury their friends they just. Everybody wants to be able to live their lives. And it was quite emotional being there. And I think we were all really proud of those young people for getting up there and just and putting themselves on the line that way. But sadly, it took a Republican lobbyist, who was present to say what I think everybody already knew, which is that it sadly didn't matter. That Republican lawmakers were going to do whatever they wanted to do anyway. Very few of them were even present in the room that day. I think there were only like 10 lawmakers who were present to hear those kids speak. Although the other desks were like totally empty, down in the chambers. So it looked quite lonely down there. And. That just gets to the fact that they don't want to hear them. They don't want to have their minds changed. They don't want to be educated. They don't want to read a book like this. Right? But we, I think that there are folks who plan to send it to lawmakers, right? Who want to put it in the mail, hoping that they can maybe change your heart, change your mind. But people have been doing that for such a long time. There are dedicated groups like the ACLU or the Transformation Project in South Dakota , that go to the legislature every year, that try to meet with lawmakers, that do meet with lawmakers, that hand them literature, that try to introduce them to kids, right? Hear their story, learn from them. And they don't take that opportunity or they're just like, well, that's all nice and good, but I'm going to vote how I'm going to vote anyway. And I think with this book, I don't expect them to hear me. What I do want though, is to make it as hard for them as possible to do the evil things they're doing, because by not listening, they can ignore the harm. They can ignore the impact. They can ignore how much this hurts kids. Like Jack in Florida is one of the children I profile in the book. She was 17 when she had her gender affirming medical care taken away. The state. Banned trans, affirming care for kids through its Medicaid program. So her estrogen was taken away for five months. During that time, she had to watch her body wither away helplessly, and she can't do anything about it. She stopped eating. She didn't leave her room. She got so skinny that her mom thought, Her heart was going to stop in her sleep. And it just gets down to the fact that that was a child who was tortured by her state. That should never happen to anyone at any age. And it especially shouldn't happen to a 17 year old. And politicians don't hear about that because they're not listening because they don't want to listen as you know, I've reaffirmed several times. So with this book, I just want to shout it as loudly as possible. We need to do as much as we can to make our voices really loud. To ensure that they're heard, because if people know what's happening, if they know what's happening to kids like that, Jack, to know the torment they're going through, at least we can make it very difficult for these lawmakers to do what they're doing. We can shame them as much as we can. We can make it a little harder for them to sleep at night. And really, that's my goal here is I want them to feel very, very, very, very bad about what they're doing. I might not be able to change the law I might not be able to change hearts and minds, but if I make it really tough for them to sleep at night, I'll at least feel like I'm doing something.

Tayler Simon: 14:08

Just thinking about the people who need to use our voices and kind of like the people who may have better faith in conversations and be willing to change their hearts and minds. What hope do you have in reaching? That crowd and those folks and what hope do you have for the future of independent journalism and storytelling in this way?

Nico Lang: 14:32

Oh, God. I don't know if I have any hope for the future of independent storytelling. It's really hard. You know, journalists are doing so much work on all on our own. So many people have had to go independent because they're just so few jobs. For us in media anymore, everybody's migrated to sub stack or is trying to make like two coins off tick tock or whatever. Like, it's tough. Like, I had to write this book because I, I feel like, and I try to say this humbly. I feel like I'm the best at the thing that I do, but there's just no job for me. and there hasn't been for 3 years. I haven't had a full time job in 3 years. I haven't had real health insurance in 3 years. So I keep having to create my own opportunity. Because they're just so few for me, and there have never been a lot of opportunities for me in the industry, you know, like I had to, I was just thinking about this earlier that I had to come in creating my own opportunity like no one was opening any doors. So it's like, I had to create my own blog. I had to do this for myself. I had to do that for myself. And I still feel like I'm doing that, with no matter how much I've done or how much I've achieved, I'm still making my own way and it's totally exhausting. So I don't, I don't know if I have that much hope there except that I, Hope that people are listening to this, take it upon themselves to do whatever you can to support journalists because if our industry is not supporting us, we really need readers to help us. We need you to subscribe to our sub stack to like, on whatever platform we're on. Follow us, share our work, like, lift us up in any way you can. Because we can't do that alone and you look at platforms like Instagram or make it hard, making it harder and harder for like queer stories to get out there. So we really need as much help as we can. And when it comes to the audience for this, I think. The people I think about most always are queer people, because so often books like this are written for people who aren't queer, they're written for like cis straight people, and I do hope that people read this book if you're cis and straight, and you learn something from it, right? We do a lot to center parent perspectives and to make sure that they're included in the conversation, and for that, or through that, I hope that other parents see them as possibility models. That they look at what they've done and think, oh, I can do that too, because none of those parents came into this being like experts. Or role models. They often knew very little or next to nothing about trans issues. And then you see how far they've come, how much they've done the work. Like Susan Wyatt's mom in our first chapter, she founded a statewide advocacy group for trans kids a couple years after her kid came out. And she was one of those folks who'd never even heard the word trans before. You know, before she had a trans kid, right? So you get to see how far they come. And you can think to yourself, Oh, I can do that too. I can educate myself. I can be the advocate and ally that my kid needs. So I hope that reading those kinds of stories is really empowering for people, right? That it gives them the tools to maybe walk that journey to and be, you know, that kind of soldier that we all need right now. But mostly, see I wrote this book for queer people who I think need to hear this message, right? That the book is sad at times, but it's also it's funny. It's optimistic. It's idiosyncratic. It's joyful. It's all of these Different tones that maybe you wouldn't expect from a book like this. I took a lot of, cues from David Sedaris, who I think does such a lovely job of making his family funny, but also really relatable and human, you feel like you know these people. And when you read this book, I want you to feel you know these folks, and you know these kids, or maybe that if you are a queer kid or a trans kid, To feel like maybe they are you or you are then that there's this connection there. And I took that, wanting that bond really seriously in the book to make people feel reflected because we get so few opportunities for that. It's often. We are stories like that are made by not queer people about us, or they have to be kind of watered down to appeal to a mainstream audience, or they're all of these ways in which queer people have to sort of negotiate all these different forces in the marketplace, and you lead to representation sometimes that isn't as authentic as I think those creators would like it to be. But here I got to do whatever I wanted. You know, I get to put whatever I wanted in the book, and so did these kids. So I just wanted it to feel like a reflection of their lives, everything they don't get to say, everything that queer people never get to hear about themselves in their life, to just go to all of these, cool, unexpected places that felt really rich and rewarding for me and for the kids too. I loved getting to write a book that I don't think has any, trans tropes, right? That for a long time, and queer and trans storytelling. Documentarians and it's usually so straight people will do this thing where they have , somebody putting on makeup at the mirror, right? Where you just , look like forlornly into the mirrors. You put on your lipstick and dab on your eye shadow or whatever. And it's supposed to sort of, I don't know. illustrate the idea of gender as being pretend or play or like a put on it really like emphasizes artificiality and i think in a way that's really actually actually like quite damaging but you see that again and again people still do that but in this book you don't see stuff that because you get to see the world like through the eyes of these kids You get to see themselves that the way they see themselves and just giving the community. This was such a beautiful gift. It feels like the embodiment of everything I've ever really wanted as a journalist in this book, and I just hope that when people read it. It feels like a gift, right? Because sometimes, I don't know, things get created with good intentions, but then they get, it turns out they're terrible. But I just hope that when people open this book, it's everything that they wanted it to be. It's everything that they needed it to be. And then I hope somebody else writes a book that goes even further. Right. That does like everything I didn't get to do. And somebody else gets to write the book that goes even further than that. I really hope more than anything that 20 years from now, this book feels totally obsolete and it's completely outdated. And everyone's like, oh, that old problematic POS. Cause we've just moved so far past all this, that our storytelling is just like light years ahead of where it is now. So this book is important. I hope everyone listening to this podcast buys it. But this is really just a step. And I hope we get to wherever it is we're going sooner rather than later.

Tayler Simon: 20:37

There were two things that you said that really made me hopeful. Like you talked about it being really hard for independent journalists and storytellers because there are not a lot of jobs for us. And I feel that too, as a writer myself and something That gets me excited is that I don't have to be constrained into our normal systems that want me to water down what I have to say, want me to change the perspectives of the stories. I want to tell and highlight. And I think you're doing that. You are creating your own lane. That's not to say it's not super hard because we still got bills to pay, but I love that. Like you are the embodiment of like radical imagination and just doing the work outside of all of these systems and telling the stories. And then the second thing was, I just had a conversation the other night with, a book club that I do locally here in Columbia with Black Nerd Mafia. And we were talking about how. We can tell when books are written for black people and when books are written for white people that happen to be about black people. And I love reading books from other cultures and just being like, okay, this wasn't for me. I'm not going to get all of the cultural references. I'm still learning. I'm here as a visitor to the cookout, but I don't have to be a part of the family. But still being able to see and connect with these people because you realize the book isn't for you, but when you realize the book is for you, it's a, it's almost like a feeling of coming home and having your people. So I love that that was the main goal for the book. I just really love books that center the reader.

Nico Lang: 22:30

But especially it's like if you're a queer person picking up a book like this, I just think it's so disappointing to find out that it wasn't written for you in mind. You know, that it was actually written for these other people to convince them to be nice to someone like you. And I'm just so tired. Of stories like that, I just think that we shouldn't have to be explaining to people in 2024 that they should be nice to queer people, rather than it was really interesting. And the, we got reviewed in the Washington Post and it was like, overall, like, a nice review. I found it to be a little glib at times, but I actually found. Thought that they kind of missed the point they sort of kept saying that we reaffirm over and over again that these kids are real and that they're valid. And that wasn't really my goal here. I don't think the book really does that at all. Because I don't think it's my place to say that they're real and valid. I think it's their place to say that they're real and valid. Right? I'm giving them a platform to express their own validity to express their realness. For me, what I wanted to do is I wanted to assert their humanity, right? And I wanted humanity to feel so central and to be the through line through everything in the book. And I just feel like queer storytelling very rarely gets to lead with us expressing our own humanity for ourselves, right? We're so often expressing it for the benefit of straight people to convince us that like, Oh, look, we deserve rights. Look, we're the same as you. Like, look, don't you love us now? But I think I. I got to a weird breaking point and I'm kind of glad I did because it changed my perspective on some of these things that for a long time we were trying to convince queer people that we are trying to convince straight people rather that we're like totally the same as them in every way so you know marriage equality give it to us because our love is the same as yours. Right. But with these kids, what they were expressing so often was their difference, their right to be themselves, that they are their own, unique, beautiful, extremely particular human being, and they should be able to get to be that person. And I realized for me that I do think that there was something important in saying that these kids in a lot of way are the same as you. But it's also important to say that they're different in some ways because they're just their own person, and they should be allowed to do that work, to be different. And I realized for me, that I want to also be different from other people and deserve rights. That I don't want to prove to other people that I deserve rights because I'm likable or nice or, you know, I'm just like your friend. I want those things to be innate. I want to just deserve them because I'm a human on this planet. Right? That those rights are mine. Are inalienable and if they're inalienable, they can't be taken away, but for trans people, we haven't really gotten there yet for trans kids. We haven't really gotten there yet. So, for folks to read this book, I want them to feel like those stories resonate with them, right? To feel that, like, queer stories resonate with them if they are a cis straight person. But if you are reading this book and they don't resonate with you and they feel totally different from your experience, I hope that isn't a hindrance or a roadblock. I hope that you then look at these kids and still think that they're deserving of rights, of dignity, of humanity. Because if we're missing the humanity of all, at all, we're totally missing the point. That's the entire point. Humans deserve rights, man.

Tayler Simon: 25:47

Yeah, right, right. So what is some advice that you will offer listeners who want to make a positive impact in their communities?

Nico Lang: 25:58

Oh, God. That's a great question. I, you know, I know that this is so basic and people will probably clown on me for this, but voting is like quite a start right now, isn't it? we are, it'll be later when the podcast comes out, but I believe today we're exactly 2 weeks away from the election. There are 2 people running. I won't have to name names because you'll be able to figure out who is soon. 1 of whom is. But, you know whatever. And the other one is a fascist, who has been convicted of 30 something felonies, who has been accused of sexual assault by 30 something women. And if that person is reelected, they have floated a national gender affirming agenda. If they stayed in the United States, they would be de transitioned, under such a policy like Jack was in Florida, or they would be forced to leave the country. They would be refugees from their own home, and have to just start over somewhere else. And we've seen families already doing this. So if you want to make an impact in your local community. If you live in a swing state, vote. There are unfortunately seven states right now that pretty much decide the American election. If you're a registered voter in one of those, in one of those states, I don't want to hear people making excuses when these kids, write and their lives are on the line. I know that people have a lot of criticisms with one of those, two candidates, particularly, their policies in Gaza, , and then, you know, many other things. I think that those things are important. I hear them. We will keep fighting for them, but I think it's easier to fight for them under a non fascist presidency than a fascist one, because that fascist presidency doesn't care. They're going to do what they want. So, if we think that we're going to be able to advocate for Gaza in any way, under such a like administration, good luck. And. And for me, I feel like that's a small way that I can fight. I can fight by voting, but we can fight by doing lots of other things. Because I think that sometimes people get in their heads about this stuff and they're like, Oh, you know, what can I do? I'm just one person, you know, how can I ever change anything? But several weeks ago, I go to this Buddhist temple and we had a stand in again for the day. Again, it's kind of like the reverend, right? And, He said something that I thought was really beautiful. He said that trying increases karma. Right? So that trying essentially is like a net good and I'd never heard of put before that way because there's that that, that Yoda idea that there isn't there's no do there's only or no, wait, no, I did that backward. There's no try. There's only do I got tripped up by doing the stupid voice, but right. I would say, or I've started saying that, that's a, I understand the idea behind that, but it's kind of B. S. Trying is actually really important. And I think the problem is that there are a lot of people who don't try, they don't engage in the system at all at any level, if, if what I said about the 2 candidates doesn't speak to you, there are down ballot races, right? There are so many, other elections to get involved with their school board elections. There's there's this governor elections, right? There are Senate elections. There are so many other people. Who make decisions about our lives. And then on top of that, if politics doesn't resonate with you at all, there's a volunteering for your local community groups. There are incredible activists and advocates on the ground, all across the country, who are trying to make shit happen, whether that's at the state level, the local level, or the federal level. Give them your support. Ask them, how can I, fold a brochure for you? If there's, like, a local progressive candidate that you think is, like, really badass and doing the work, Volunteer, knock on some doors, you know, phone bank. And then for these kids, like, there's always like an LGBT center or like somewhere aligned with that work in a lot of communities across the country. If there isn't an in person LGBT center, like a drop in space, there are often churches that are doing that work, like progressive churches. We often think of churches as being like, you know, There's a word here that I'm searching for and not finding it, that they're all the same. What's the, there's like a good. Yes, that they're homogenous. I mean, that's not true. there's so many churches that do, really great work on queer issues, and are creating space for, , queer and trans people to have support groups to, get access to gender affirming care. Find what those groups are. You know, start going to those spaces. Support them. You know, there's just, to me There's so much that each one of us has the power to do, even just in terms of using your own platform, Facebook, Instagram, if you're still on Twitter for some ungodly reason, TikTok. There are so many ways that we can engage with the process, and I just see people being silent. All the time, every day that, that we don't do more, like, we are contributing to this with our silence. So you don't have to do it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Right? No one's asking you to, I don't know, be the next Sojourner Truth here, but at least you can do something. Right? You can do something to help these kids because the worst thing for me would be to listen to the podcast or even pick up this book and then go about your life the same way that you did before. Now you know all this stuff is happening. You know that these kids are being tortured in their own country. What are you going to do about it? I want everybody who listens to this to ask themselves that and then whatever your answer is, whatever speaks to you, go do that. Don't make it make excuses. Try trying is the most important thing. It's better than not trying because not trying to got to got us to where we are now.

Tayler Simon: 31:11

Right, and being complacent and thinking about, the upcoming election, like you said, there's down ballot races and having your voice heard for the day to day impacts is really important because a lot of these state bills wouldn't be passed if we paid attention to local elections. Voted and put our votes in our energy and our time and holding those people accountable as well. So thank you so much for saying that. And I love what you said too about trying and like, some people, so many people get overwhelmed and give up before they even try, but just try because you never know, you might do something. You could be the one person to tip us over. So you just don't know. So thank you so much for that conversation. Where can people find, Out about you and keep up with your work and

Nico Lang: 32:06

So the most important thing that people should do is buy the book. You can do that on Allstore right now, is my, my number one recommendation because they picked my book as their book of the month. So please give them your money., it's a L. L. S. T. O. R. A. dot com. There's sort of like a queer owned like platform. Obviously you should also get it through liberation is lit. Number 2. so those should be like your 2 options. But I know that people often. Go with the path of least resistance here. Please don't make that path path of least resistance. Amazon, if you take anything away from this conversation, Amazon does not need your money. Jeff Bezos never needs your money. They're actively hurting, local, LGBT vendors and booksellers. And the planet. So don't do that. So Liberation is Lit and Allstora would be great resources for you. If for some reason, I don't know, you can't figure out your computer, DM me on Instagram, Queer News Daily, and we'll make it happen together. Other than that, in terms of following my work long term, Queer News Daily and Instagram is a great resource. And that's honestly pretty much it. I think people have too many online platforms. I don't want that. I want to go live my life like a human being when I'm not doing this. So please don't find me on Facebook., please don't send me an email if you don't have to. Instagram is totally great. I'm super active on it. I'm quite responsive. So if you read the book and you love it, you send me a DM or you hate it and you think it's the worst thing ever, I would love to hear from you. So, so yeah. And I just thank everybody. In advance, who does take the time to support, you know, to support liberation as lit and other like lgbtq plus vendors across the country because they've been the real supporters of this book, it's, you know, it's a really hard thing to write a book, and it's a really difficult thing to get it out there and knowing that I've had so many. allies, from other folks who know how much these stories mean, and how much it's worth it to tell them. That's been really life giving, so I'm just really grateful for that.

Tayler Simon: 34:02

correct me if I'm wrong. You have a Patreon, right?

Nico Lang: 34:06

I do, I wouldn't, so, I'm sort of rethinking right now what I want my Instagram to be. If you want to support my Patreon, that's super great., but I'm not pushing that super hard right now, because to be honest, I don't know if I'm going to continue doing the Instagram in the way I have before, because with the way that like Instagram has changed its algorithm., I just don't get any traction. All my posts would do so well, I would put up something and it would just go nuts. And these days. I feel like I'm begging people to like, look at my content on there. And it's just sad, it's not how I want to spend my time. I just want, I want queer voices to find an audience. I want queer news to find an audience. That's what the account is for. But it shouldn't take up so much of my mental and emotional energy to do it. I have to think of myself first. So I don't know what I'm going to do yet. Maybe I'll go to TikTok. I'm not really a TikTok kind of girly because I don't want to be, you the face of my stuff, , I just want to be a platform. I want queer authors to be the face of their stuff. You know, I just want to give that space to other people. So I don't really know what the solution is yet. Everybody keeps screwing us over and then queer authors have to do it ourselves over and over again. It's like why you created liberation is lit. Right. Cause we got to do it ourselves. So, so yeah, I'll take your money if you want to support my Patreon. If you don't, that's okay. We'll all figure it out in time. We're all on a journey here. I think.

Tayler Simon: 35:25

Yes, at the bare minimum, just keep looking for updates on Queer News Daily on IG and you'll see all of the direction.

Nico Lang: 35:33

Well, I have to say instead, does Liberation is Lit have a Patreon that you can plug to have people support?

Tayler Simon: 35:39

Uh, working on that. I'm working actually building a whole online, resource bank on how to use reading and books as a way to deepen your activist practice. So, I'm working on building that community up.

Nico Lang: 35:56

Okay, I love that. What other ways can people support you then? So obviously buying a book's great.

Tayler Simon: 36:01

Yes, buy books either on bookshop. org or from my website directly. And just following the podcast because like you said, I want to be a platform for authors and definitely listen to their stories because not only are their books amazing, but also just the stories that they through the podcast. And, I am also Breaking my back on all of these different social media platforms. So Instagram, Tik TOK and Facebook, but I have a little thing where I can just post to one post to all three places. So,

Nico Lang: 36:38

Oh, that's nice.

Tayler Simon: 36:39

yes. So, yeah, well, thank you so much again for this amazing conversation. Like Nico said, if you read the book and listen to the podcast and continue going on with your life business, as usual, we'll We need you to get fired up and try. So if you have stories that you want to share, want to suggesting topics or want to connect again, I gave all of the places I'm at, at liberation is lit Facebook, Instagram, Tik TOK, or our website liberation is lit. com. And if you enjoyed , the episode, please consider leaving a review. Remember that your voice matters and together through the lens of stories, we're going to make a difference in the world until next time.