Freedom is a Collective Desire (with Cleyvis Natera)

In this episode, we chat with author Cleyvis Natera about her journey as a writer, starting from her childhood in the Dominican Republic and her burgeoning love for reading. We talk about her new book, 'The Grand Paloma Resort', which explores themes of class, privilege, and the dynamic between local workers and tourists at a luxury resort. Cleyvis also touches on the cultural storytelling traditions that influence her writing and the importance of incorporating humor and big energy into her narratives. 

00:00 Introduction to the Podcast

00:23 Meet the Author: Cleyvis Natera

00:54 Cleyvis's Journey to Becoming a Writer

04:28 The Inspiration Behind 'The Grand Paloma Resort'

08:08 Crafting a Thriller: Unexpected Turns

13:06 Cultural Storytelling and Character Development

16:25 Grounding Themes and Social Impact

19:38 Book Recommendations and Final Thoughts

22:18 Making a Positive Impact in Your Community

24:30 Closing Remarks and Where to Find More

Cleyvis’s Books

The Grand Paloma Resort

Neruda on the Park

Other Books Mentioned

The Girls Who Grew Big by Layla Mottley

Nightcrawling by Layla Mottley

Dominicana by Angie Cruz

Where to find Cleyvis

cleyvisnatera.com

IG: Cleyvisnatera

Thank you for being part of the Liberation is Lit podcast! If you have stories to share, want to suggest topics, or just want to connect, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @liberationislit or visit our website at liberationislit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review! Remember, your voice matters, and together, through the lens of stories, we're making a difference in the world.

Transcript

0:06

Hey y'all. Welcome to the Liberation is Lit Lit Podcast, where the power of storytelling meets the force of social change. I'm your host, Tayler Simon, and in this podcast we believe in the profound impact of stories. And I am super excited to have such great energy. Joining me today, author Cleyvis Natera and we're going to talk about her new book, the Grand Paloma Resort. Hey, Cleyvis I'm so excited to be here with you. I'm just like falling all over myself. I'm so. Oh my gosh. We, we've only been talking for a few minutes before recording and just the energy in the room like it is so refreshing. So I'm so excited to be talking to you today. to kick us off, can you tell us a little bit about yourself as a writer and your journey to becoming an author? Well, thank you so much, Tayler. I think, for those of you who might not know about me, you know, my name is Cleyvis like Tayler. Said, and I was born in the Dominican Republic. I came to the United States when I was 10 years old and I grew up in New York City. My journey as a writer started, in middle school, I would say.'cause that's when I fell in love with reading. You know, I had this teacher who just hated my guts. I was a little bit of a cloud, as you might sense from my big energy, and I was just not a pleasant child to have in a class because I was always trying to crack jokes. And, you know, one of the things that she did in our class was that she said that anyone who read a book and did a presentation on the book, could, get two extra points toward their final grade. I raised my hand and I was like, well, is there a limit to how many books we can read? And she kind of looked at me like, please girl. And she was like, no limit. And I was like, ah, it's on now. You know? So I choose like methodically read every single book that was available at the time I was in bilingual education. So this. These were all books I was reading in Spanish. But you know, somewhere between me just trying to prove to her that I could do it and that I could get a good grade if all I had to do was read a book and talk about the book. I was like, I'm getting an A in this class. And you know, by the end of that year I did get an A and I also fell in love with reading. I fell in love with books. And I would say that's really the first time when I realized the power of literature to like transport you and take you to a far away place. And I just really loved this. So, you know, when I went to high school, I was, in the newspaper and I started writing there. I was one of the editors. When I went to college, I started taking creative writing classes and right after college I went into my MFA program at NYU and that's where I started writing, novels. Oh my gosh. Just the life and it's so funny, everybody's always like, how do you get kids to read more apparently? Just say, oh, you'll get extra points. The no limit to how many books you read. So I'm curious, how many books did you end up reading and presenting on? I probably read like 30 books. Yeah, because I, like I said, I was not doing well in that class, so for me to get an A from like a C I definitely had to have read like somewhere around 30 books. I think bribing children, and I'm a parent now, so I do recommend it if you wanna motivator, bribe the kids. Okay. Yes, there's a bookstore Orleans, Baldwin and Co where they give, I can't remember how much money it is, but they give kids like money for each book they read and book report. They write on it. So, and they have the access to the. account once they're 18. So if they wanna go to college, buy a car, like they'll have like that money. And I think that's so awesome. Well, I love Baldwin and co. I'm actually going to stop there in August for my book tour. And I just, I love that there. When I went there for my first book, Neruda on the park, I just felt like I'm in another life. I must have been from New Orleans'cause I just love it there. I love the food is good, the people are amazing. It's always hot. That's like my temperature, so. Yes. I just went there like two or three weeks ago and of course I had to go by Baldwin and Co. And I had such an amazing time in New Orleans and it's always associated with black women for me, and I just, I love that. So to talk a little bit about your book coming up, what inspired you to write the Grand Paloma Hotel and what message do you hope to send readers with this book? Yeah, I mean, I think the inspiration, first of all came from. Me being trapped because I started writing this book during the pandemic and during that time, you know, the borders had been shut down and you know, I was waiting to take my first book out to market. My agent and I had pretty much finished the editorial process, but because the pandemic has started, we couldn't take it out. I mean. As with every other industry, the publishing industry came to a complete halt. And so, you know, at the time my agent was like, you know what, let's just kind of put it on ice. Let's wait a little bit until people are reading and making deals. And so, you know, during that time, one of my. Friends, Angie Cruz, who wrote Dominica, she's an incredible writer. She solicited me. She was like, oh, she was a guest editor at the Kenyan Review, which I adore. And she was like, do you have a story? Like we're just looking for something short, like 2000 words. And I had been thinking about writing from the perspective of employees at a luxury resort for a long time. I mean, like I said, I'm from the Dominican Republic. I love to travel, so I've been new. Bali, I've been to Singapore. I've been all over Europe, all over Latin America. I love the Caribbean. That's like my favorite place in the whole planet. And so over the years as I had been traveling, I had noticed just like what an interesting and fascinating place a resort is because you have, you know, this kind of coalition of like these wealthy, privileged people. And you know, what has been created is really a playground. I mean, it's like there's always some kind of barrier that separates the resort from the local communities. And then you have the workers who are usually local people, you know? And so for me, I just, I just, over the years have noticed and have spoken to and interviewed people both formally and informally, you know, once I started writing this book. But I've just always had a fascination with like, beautiful spaces and just exploring art, in the, in the framework of books. But I just love the idea of like. Thinking about class, thinking about privilege, thinking about local people versus foreigners and, so yeah, so anyway, during the pandemic, I was just like, I wanna write something that's delicious, that feels nonstop. I wanted to create an escape for myself. So I think that was the first point of inspiration, was that I really wanted to write a book that just felt like. All these people are messed up, like they're gonna make terrible decisions. And I just wanted to write from that point of view where like you have these women who are just, you know, these two sisters, Elena and Laura, and they're just like desperate to get off of this resort. And I wanted to write also about like. They're friends at the resort. I wanted to write about, you know, some of the guests that come to the resort. And so for me, like the point of inspiration was really like trying to buckle in and escape my own life and my confinement through like a really delicious and like nonstop, set of characters and situations. And it is nonstop for real. It's like from the first second, like, okay, we. So you kind of talked about like, this book being a, a, a way of escape for you during the COVID lockdown. And am curious to, know, was Thriller, the you kind of settled on to tell this story? Well, I mean, I have to tell you that I don't, I don't, I didn't intend to write a thriller like I think, I think, you know, because I grew up as a writer, you know? Learning how to write and learning about writing conventions in an academic environment. I really grew up writing, and reading literary fiction. And one of the things that always seemed to me to be. Contrary to my upbringing, especially being an Afro-Latina, being from the Caribbean, is that I'm in literary fiction. You know, so much of what I love about, it's the beautiful language and like the interiority of the characters, but to me it always felt like it felt short of like my oral storytelling traditions in my family. When people start telling a story, if you are whack and you're not doing a good job, somebody's gonna take the story from you. Somebody's gonna interrupt you, they're gonna talk over you. If you're boring, nobody cares. Stop talking. You know, and some of what I wanted to inject into my literary writing was really this kind of sense of, propulsion, you know, like this. Sense of like tension. And so when I first started thinking about the resort and I started thinking about the situation that would lead people to not be able to stop reading, I knew that I wanted to be really around the compromises that people make. And so, you know, Lara is like the older sister. She's had like this mother, role for her younger sister.'cause they lost their mother when they were very young. You know, Lara was only 14 and her sister was four. They have a 10 year, age difference. And so for me, like when I was thinking about these two women and I was like, you know what if Elena, who's grown up with a lot of privilege, 'cause she's grown up pretty much, her whole childhood in this resort because her sister. Is a worker there, and becomes a manager over time, then Elena's gonna have a very different sense of like freedom and like justice and the things she cares about. So I wanted to put these two women in conflict with each other. And so I knew that the compromises that they would have to make in order to realize who they really are in life had to hinge on something really. Unforgivable. Like I wanted to make these women make a choice that a reader would be like, are you crazy? Like, did you really just do this? And so, you know, when I started writing it, I should also say that like my first book, it took me like from the first sentence to publication, 15 years. And I knew I did not wanna do that with my second book. I was like, nobody's got time for another 15 year journey to book number two. And so, you know, when I started writing this book, I just, I knew that I wanted it to be seven days in a resort. Like again, like I really was thinking structurally about escape and about vacation from life. And so the idea that, like what ends up happening in this story is that, you know, Elena. Injures a young child, she's in charge of taking care of, like, you know, because of her negligence, this child's injured and her sister decides to teach her a lesson. She's like, I want her to understand how serious it is that she's going around doing ecstasy, going around acting crazy, is not smart. And so her older sister decides to kind of like pretend that something more serious has happened than has actually happened to the tourist child. This white child. And what ends up happening over the course of, like the next couple of days is that Elena actually ends up putting two real girls in real danger, in order to like find money, you know, and like she's very worried about her own freedom. And so it just kind of happened with the story that the mystery. Became a thriller. And you know, when I finished writing it, I remember talking to my editor, you know, there was a switch in my editors, but I started out with Chelsea Johns, who's like an absolutely incredible, editor. And she read the first full draft of it and she was like, this is like a thriller. And I was like, hold up. I. I was like, this totally happened by accident. And you know, I've always really loved books that incorporate a lot of propulsion intention, like romances, horror thrillers. Like I do have like a sense as a reader that those are the kinds of books that make you not wanna put the book down. And so I just feel like, because I've read so widely, some of those habits that's just built in. And I also think that it. Aligns more with culturally where I come from, the kind of stories my people wanna hear, you know? I wanna, I wanna touch on that a little bit too, 'cause I'm curious too.'Cause earlier you talked about like the oral storytelling tradition and like how you can't, when you're telling the story, you can't be boring. Somebody's gonna take the story from you. So how do you really incorporate a lot of like, those like storytelling aspects that is rooted in cultural aspects and into your work? I mean, I think the first thing that I am aware of, especially when I'm thinking about how do we inject our cultural, roots into the work, is to think really holistically about what you want the story to. To do. I mean, I'm a, I'm, I teach fiction now, so I spend a lot of time with my students talking about what is the feeling you want the reader to have. And so, for example, in my culture, Dominican people just we all have big energy. Most of us have a, a sense of humor. We want people to like be entertained when we're telling stories. And so one of the things that I was thinking about as I was writing this is, you know. Laura, who's the older sister. She's kind of an intense person. Like she's very like work focused. She is not fun, you know, she's like a fascinating character, but I wouldn't wanna go hang out with her and have a drink with her, you know? So part of what I was thinking about as I was constructing this book was like, well, I know she and her younger sister are my protagonist, but I actually think it would be more entertaining to tell a story using a whole cast, and to do it in a way where like. I am not a big fan of books that are told from a lot of different perspectives. They drive me a little crazy, you know,'cause you sometimes you just can't wait to get to like the real story, the real character you care about. But I was like, actually, if the story is the character, if the place, if the. Resort is actually the character of this book. The protagonist is a place, then the story would be most entertaining by following the people that make their way through that place and what this place has done to all of them. And so I, for me, like that was one of the. Intentional choices I made that I think is really reflective of my culture is that, like I was saying before, if I'm telling a story to my aunts and you know, and I say something that's a little slow, I already know that my sister's gonna come in and be like, that's not what happened, actually. You know? And like they're gonna say something that's maybe a little more outrageous, maybe a little more exaggerated, maybe more hyperbolic, you know, because it's like you want the story to be big. And so I was really listening to that. Impulse. I think that came from my childhood and like that came from growing up in like a tropical space. And I also wanted this book to have elements that like my protagonist don't have, like I did want the book to have humor even though it's not a funny book. I wanted like a reader to be reading some of this and be like. This is ridiculous. Like, what is this place? You know? And so I just wanted it to be really entertaining and I wanted it to be like a fun read. Even if you are reading about situations that make you feel like, oh my God, my heart is racing, what's gonna happen next? Oh yeah. And when I say it's a fun read, I had, a couple of popup events, Liberation is Lit It is a popup bookstore and I had a couple popup events at a bar, last week and. Didn't care what was going on. I was in the book. I was in it. I was like, oh, oh, there's a lot different people here now. Oh. This is the biggest compliment I've gotten so far. Okay, the this book, I did my job. I can rest easy now. Yes. Yes. speaking to that, what are some things that keep you grounded in this work as an author? Well, I mean, I think what I get grounded by is really part of like the question that you asked before'cause we're having such a good time. I forgetting to answer parts of. You know, I do think that like part of what keeps me grounded is what I want the reader to get from the book. And so, you know, one of the things that I think about a lot in the portrayal of privilege in the Caribbean is that very often I feel like our stories are not represented. And even when you think about. You know, stories that do like a beautiful job portraying, the setting, right? So like they really show how magnificent the Caribbean is. I think a lot of times that you don't really, we don't get to be the protagonist. You know, even when the stories are being told from, from our places of birth and like from the places where we're from. And so like, part of what I wanted this book to do was to like introduce curiosity to my readers, whether they're Dominican people or they're, you know, Americans.'cause you know, I'm a, I'm a US citizen, so, whether they're from my, you know, hometown here in the US or they're from the Dominican Republican and. Global. I just wanted people to come to this book with a sense of curiosity and for the book to evoking people a sense of what are the complexities that surround race in a place like the Dominican Republic? What are the complexities that surround gender? You know, what does it mean to be a woman in, in a, in the workplace and in certain places? I wanted this idea of freedom and how freedom is really. A collective desire. So like I really believe that we as people of the global majority, and I'm talking now about black people in the world, like I don't think that we will ever be free or liberated unless we are collectively seeking freedom. And so, like, for me, and I know I'm like, oh, this fuck is so fun, let's go. But like, I also wanted to inspire in my readers that sense of, you know what, we are better than our worst mistake. We are just as good as our community. We are going to grow when people love us. We are gonna grow when people give us a chance to be our best selves. And that all of that is rooted in a knowledge of our history, in a knowledge of our collective liberation, and maybe even the idea that love. Of each other, made families, blood families, all of that is like an important aspect of, of what we should all be striving toward. So for me, that keeps me really grounded because I think it's really difficult to pull that off. To be like, I'm gonna write a book that's a page turner. That's fun. That makes people a little horny at times. But then also that it's like about deep things that I care about, like history and race and privilege and class like. So for me, the ambition to do all these things in one book keeps me very grounded.'cause it's hard to do. Well, you make it look easy, honey, because it, I got all of that from the book and I am super excited for readers to get into it. Has there any been, been anything that you've been reading lately that has, been giving you life? Yes. I just finished reading my friend Layla Motley's new book, the Girls Who Grew Big. Tayler, I don't know if you've read this book, but I feel like you and everyone you know needs to read this book. yet, but I read, night crawling and I immediately that I think, I think I already bought the audio book, so I just have to, I'm getting through my library books first then I'm gonna go to the ones that I bought. But yes, that is one I have purchased for myself. Well, you have to get into it. And I mean, as a library, girly, you know, I do, Libby, I do the physical books, you know, there's, there's a date by which you have to return. So I understand the prioritizing. But, you know, Layla's new book is just astonishing. I mean, I. Just like she did in night crawling where, you know, we were thinking about the corruption of the police force and like how this young girl ends up getting caught up in like this prostitution ring. And the way that she has to grow up so fast. I think the girls who grew big, I. Does so much of what was working in that first book that was so brilliant, but I think it's so different to me. Like it showcases Layla's range. This is a multicast book, so you have three main protagonists you're following, and they're all young girls, young women. Who are, you know, somewhere between being a teenager and them being in the early twenties. Two of them already have children and one of them is pregnant. And it's a 16-year-old. And so, yeah, I just loved following, these young women. Like there's Emery and Simone and Adina. Like, I just, I'm never gonna forget. Like what they're going through. And that story is really about the way that like the world can decide to dismiss you and that you aren't worth very much. But the way that you get your own self-worth is the people who are next to you helping you to survive. And I just, you know, I just finished reading that book. The pub Day, was yesterday and so I finished reading her book over the weekend.'cause I really wanted to like write a post and on Instagram and like give her a lot of love. And I was just so glad that I like pushed all the other books out of the way to make room for it.'cause it just gave me life. It gave me like such a sense of wonder and it's just a beautiful story. Highly recommend, So it might be time to push the other books out the way. I think so you won't regret it. Yes. And so my last question for you is, what advice would you offer listeners who wanna make a positive impact in their communities? You know, I, I think what I have learned in my own life is that sometimes when we wanna make a big impact in the world, we think about this macro. Events or like macro, huge, big things that we need to do. And all I wanna say is that like what we're living through these days is absolutely insanity. Our. Country is falling apart. All our rights are being stripped from us. If we're women, if we're people of color, immigrants are being, kidnapped left and right. And so, you know, when I think about like what people can do to make a difference in the world, to me it's really going back to like your own community. Looking at your neighbors, taking care of each other, offering people. Kindness, empathy, seeing each other as human beings, because I don't think it's by mistake that we live in a country that is dead set on like, first of all, making us think we're not human beings. Second of all, stripping us of all our rights and you know, and also dividing us, you know, I think that there's a lot of, there's just a lot of capital to be made by making us all feel separate and isolated and lonely. And so for me, like the biggest impact you can make is just to like. Reach across your backyard, reach across your neighborhoods, look at someone who like maybe has a different accent than you that has a different background, and just reaffirm for them that they matter, that we all are worthy of dignity and respect. That's what I've been thinking a lot about lately. It's just like, how can I make an impact right here in my house? Right here in my neighborhood, in my block. Like how can I volunteer with like places and people that like maybe don't have the same ease of understanding the language or understanding processes?'Cause we're all being disenfranchised, you know? And whether it's affecting us today or later, believe me, like when they start stripping the rights of certain people in our community and in our country, eventually it's gonna affect everybody. Whew. I couldn't have said it better myself. So thank you so much, Cleyvis for being on the podcast. Where can people find you and keep up with all your work and this book tour that's coming up? Tayler, this has been such a pleasure. Thank you for having me. I loved being your guest. I would love for all your listeners to and viewers 'cause we're like, Hey, to find me on, on Instagram is where I am the most active. So it's Cleyvis Natera on Instagram. If you want to come find me on book tour, my website has all the links and all the details. I'll be visiting 11 cities over the course of, between August and September, and so I hope that people will just come find me. Cleyvisnatera.com is where all the information, under the events tab. You can find me there. I really would love to meet everybody and I really hope your listeners and your viewers will pick up my book. I worked so hard on it and I love it so much. Yes, I will link, the Instagram and website, so y'all. Can get those tour dates and keep up with all the book news. And I will link how to buy Clayvis's book in the show notes as well, as well as her first book. so thank you again for being on the podcast and thank you listeners, if you have stories you wanna share, wanna suggest any topics or just wanna connect with us, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok. At Liberation is Lit, or visit our website, liberation is lit.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. And remember, your voice matters and together through the lens of stories, we're gonna make a difference in the world. Until next time.