Seeding Possibilities (with Daria Burke)

In this episode, we speak with author Daria Burke about her new memoir, Of My Own Making. Daria shares the deeply personal journey behind her writing, including her upbringing in Detroit, dealing with childhood trauma, the healing power of storytelling, the science behind trauma and recovery, and the importance of self-care and community. The conversation delves into how Daria balances vulnerability with professional life, and her ongoing inspirations. 

00:00 Introduction to the Liberationist Lit Podcast

00:41 Meet Daria Burke: Author and Empowerer of Women

00:58 Daria's Journey: From Detroit to the C-Suite

03:41 The Science and Soul of Healing

08:23 Balancing Vulnerability and Self-Care

18:32 Living with Intention and Upcoming Projects

25:03 The Power of Community

29:07 Closing Remarks and Where to Find More

Daria’s book

Of My Own Making

Other Books in the Episode

Wicked by Gregory Maguire

James by Percival Everett

Black Women Writers at Work by Claudia Tate

The Great Mann by Kyra Davis Lurie

Where to Find Daria

dariaburke.com

Instagram

Thank you for being part of the Liberation is Lit podcast! If you have stories to share, want to suggest topics, or just want to connect, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @liberationislit or visit our website at liberationislit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review! Remember, your voice matters, and together, through the lens of stories, we're making a difference in the world.

Transcript

0:01

Hey y'all. Welcome to the Liberationist Lit Podcast, where the power of storytelling meets the force of social change. My name is Tayler, and I have the immense pleasure to be speaking with author Daria Burke about her new memoir of my own making. So hey, Daria Hi. I love that you still have the galley copy. I just saw you when you held it up. I was like, oh my God. She's got an OG copy. Oh yes. And I had to get my cutesy little like coffee shop pic with it too. So when the episode goes live, I'll post that as well. So. Well, thank you so much. Yes. So Daria, can you kick us off by telling us a little bit about yourself and your work, empowering women, and what led you to tell your story? Through of my own making. Yeah. Thank you for that. Gosh, I, I'm gonna maybe try to do it all at once. You know, I think because of my own making as a memoir, it's very much about my own life and experience growing up in Detroit in the eighties and nineties, and. A lot of the childhood trauma that I experienced growing up, and I would say being parented by addiction and mental illness. so much of, I think the work that I have done in my career, particularly when it's centered around girls and women, and I would say empowerment, but also just. Being a possibility model. I think hopefully being now, especially that the book has been released, an enlightened witness to their own experiences, I think so much of our healing lies in being seen and just being witnessed. And, and certainly. There's often the career element and my own journey of going to college at the University of Michigan and then pursuing my MBA at NYU and launching into a 20 year career in beauty and in fashion. That led me to the C-Suite as a chief marketing officer. You know, that plays a role certainly in a lot of the work that I do, but I think about possibility, strategy, possibility work, really being this sort of wisdom work. You know, how can we take all the experiences that we've had and while we're not defined by them, while we should not root our identities in those experiences. You know, how can you create a life or reimagine a life untethered from those things and take what you learned from those things and, and transmute that into something useful in, in this life. And so that's a little bit about me and about the book and about the work. I think all in one, you know, the book really at its core is, is about how we choose who we become. You know, I think it's, it's really. Important work for us all to be able to distinguish the facts of our lives versus the stories we tell ourselves about those facts. You know, those stories are just interpretations of the facts. And I think if we're not careful, we can allow those stories to really run the narrative going forward. And so, so much of this book is about my own experience with. What could have been and, and some of the ways in which I recreated those early experiences, in my own healing journey and really about the science of healing and the promise that what we learn we can unlearn and that we can sort of rewire our brains, our bodies, our beliefs for, for growth and for healing. And that's exactly what I loved about your book. You talk a lot about how. We are nurtured by the effects of our nature and, the science behind trauma, how it affects our brains, and how it rewires us, but doesn't have to define us. What made you decide to frame your story in this way? You know. I mean, so much of the book is really me metabolizing everything that I went through and learned, and so I, you know, I, I think it's, there's something to be said about the way in which writing can create some space and some distance for us to allow us to really be sure, have clarity on the, the. Perspective that we have or the relationship that we wanna have with the events of our lives. And so it, it's sort of a combination of things. I think one was me making sense of it for myself and, and putting it into perspective and then being able to look at it and go, yeah, that is, that is how I feel about it right now. And how might the journey of excavating some of those stories. Continue to change me, you know, how does the relationship that I have with those experiences, how does that look now? How do I want that to look? But then also very much married with the science of healing that. I learned in that journey, right? Learning about neuroplasticity, learning about epigenetics, learning about post-traumatic growth, having these sort of revelatory moments of like, oh, this explains how someone could come from such a painful, chaotic, neglectful, abusive past, you know, early, early years, and through radical acceptance. Through sitting with and, and to some degree bringing some of those things a little bit clo, the hardest things we've ever been through. Like how can you them closer enough to look at them and then be able to, to reimagine the story that you tell yourself about yourself at the same time? And so. I, I think it's really easy to see someone as an after, right? There's the before that we don't see, and then there's the after, which often can look very polished, very finished, very sort of produced in a way. And I think in a lot of cases with me, people I think are often reacting to my presence more than my presentation. But I think that those things can get conflated. so when you see someone who's sort of the, the presentation is, is such that it seems like such a departure from where they started. They're like, well, how did you do that? How did that happen? How did you know to make those choices? And, and know, in some ways the book is me trying to answer that, but also to say that this, like, it's a practice. Every day. it's, it's an ongoing practice. And so I wanted kind of that mix of science and story because while I do believe that narratives and stories are so powerful in helping us connect the dots in our own lives, it felt important to me to offer. A little bit of the how it happens, the why it can happen, and to seed use that to seed possibility for other people. Like I think that growth and healing and post-traumatic growth are possibilities for everyone. Will everyone experience them and go through them? No, maybe not, but I believe deeply in the possibility. That it can exist for everyone. And so I wanted to try to also offer what I learned, while marrying that with my own story to show kind of the science and the soul work of it all. And I love how you talked about, people seeing that finished Polish project and that is the work you do internally. And , I've experienced that myself. One of my friends recently was telling me, oh my gosh, you are always so vulnerable and with your heart and your sleeve and you're just not afraid to do the hard work. And I have been reflecting that my vulnerability is. Still, sometimes me intellectualizing my feelings as a way to not project the messiness. So I, I, there are a few people in my life who see the fall apart parts. They, they always see me as, yeah, nothing's, nothing's perfect, but here I am with a smile on my face and able to talk about it. And, that could be really hard work. And, they don't see the care you had to take care of yourself while doing this hard work. They kind of just see after, you've intellectualized and processed and then can be vulnerable. And so I love to ask people how do you take care of yourself, doing this work and being so vulnerable publicly, while being a complex PTSD survivor? Thank you. I first I wanna say, and I guess this sort of gets to your question, but also acknowledging that it's. It has to be more than intellectualizing it. I think feeling your feelings really matters, and sometimes feeling your feelings looks like emotions to well up, whether it's tears or even fear or anxiety. Allowing yourself to feel that and acknowledge that. I don't think that if we don't have full awareness of what's happening in our body, then I don't think you're actually. In, in touch with what, what you're going through. So I do think that for me, and it sounds like for you too, intellectualizing it is part of the process that's like, but that's step one. And so naming it for me is just step one and then really feeling it is where the work starts. And because that can look like what's happening in your gut, that could look like the ways in which chronic stress is showing up in your body. So taking care of myself looks a lot like that. I think it, it, you know, so much of my history, I spent so many years running away from my childhood and running away from what I thought would kill me. It's like if I feel my feelings, I won't survive them. And learning that I could and, and then figuring out, okay, well what do I do with them now that I'm staring them in the face? And so I think the presentation of, of, of sort of looking cared for definitely was both a. A reaction to not being cared for. A reaction to the neglect that we experienced as kids and a survi kind of a survival strategy, both in that quieted some of the questions from other people, right? When I looked cared for, people didn't ask questions, and so that I could sort of hide behind that in a way. because the fear was that if people knew what our ho our home situation was like, then we would be taken away. But it was also an act of self-care So the ritual and the routine of taking care of myself physically, while I think it's easy to label that as a performance. Of safety. It, it was, it was an act of performing care for myself too. So I, I also find it hard to really kind of divorce those two things. And so that's still part of how I take care of myself, like caring for myself, getting up every day. Doing the things that a human being does when they're showing care for and respect for themselves, for their wellbeing, for their health, right? I'm talking basic stuff. I get up, I make my bed every day. I have always been this person. You know, you, you, you tend to the daily events of adulting. Because of being cared for is not neglecting those things. Right. And then you can layer on all the other things that I do, like the journaling and the meditation and the walks to the beach and the working out, and the talking to friends, right? All of which are also very much in my daily toolbox. But it starts with just showing up and having enough. I think enough belief that I, I am, I'm good enough to deserve good things, and that starts with taking care of myself and how I treat myself. And so that's what care looks like and I, it it's on such the of a long continuum, you know, I think sometimes we want care to be. This one thing that we do, and it's, it just, it doesn't, like I said, healing is a practice. I think self-care, in the ways that we're talking about it, not spa days and getting my nails done and, you know, all the consumerist. of self care that are really just interventions after it's too late because you feel like you don't know what else to do. You know, but the actual act of just being a human being that requires being cared for, you know, that's, that's daily work. And I will just quickly, 'cause I think that positivity piece is so easy to look at it as toxic or again, performative. Like, you seem great and, and. Number one, not everybody needs a front row seat to the messy middle. I'm not a messy middle sharer for with most people.'cause most people don't need that Right. I have a container for it and I have the people in my life who I share that with. I'm really okay with that. I think that part of being. Part of of choosing to take care of myself, at least for me, I won't speak for everyone, but it's a conscious intervention to disrupt despair. are plenty of things to be sad about, anxious about, scared of. I don't, I don't not let myself acknowledge that too. But I am, it's a conscious effort. It's a conscious practice, a conscious intervention to disrupt things that could also leave me in a state of despair. And that is what people see. And I'm okay with that being what people see. They, they're seeing clarity, they're seeing self-awareness. They're seeing intention. And I, I'm totally fine if that's what, you know, how it, how it sort of shows up if the presentation of that shows up as maybe something that feels polished. Because at the end. It is quietly polished you doing the work. And so like every, when you were describing all of the ways you care for yourself, it just made me think of. That's a no-brainer. That's how we show up for other people. When we think about care, we know what to do when our favorite person is having a bad day. We know how to show up for our family and what they need and how to care for other people. But sometimes, when we think about caring for ourself, we make it super complicated. And sometimes too, when we. Put in extra care for other people and neglect care for ourselves. Sometimes that's a way for us to lose ourselves, and so I always to ask to people who have a lot going on. Who are you outside of the work you do, and I know that's a question that you ask yourself in the book as well. Yeah, I, I'm just a human being trying to navigate Earth. School, right? Like at my core, I think that's really how I think of myself. I think of myself as someone who is dynamic, immutable, and so just the idea of labeling it, I, I see it so much as a verb versus a noun, right? So. I'm, I'm just, I'm living, I'm creating, I'm trying to be a daily maker of things that feel good and feel nurturing and that I, I was gonna say, feel useful. And I don't know that that's actually true anymore, but I do hope that what I, what I make that be, that my intention in what I make is. Of use in a, in a positive way if there's use to be had. But more than anything that I can just be in the act of making a life and yeah, I don't know. I'm, I'm sort of resistant to, I'm becoming increasingly allergic to, language that feels. Too prescriptive. You know, of course there are things that I do that have titles. I, I, I am an author and I am a speaker, and I work with people in different ways, but I'm just a human being in earth school, making a life and trying to do it on a daily basis, such that I feel good about the time that I spent doing whatever that thing was. Yes. It's that living with intention and building life with intention. So I know I just said who are you outside of the work you do, but what are some of your upcoming projects that you may be excited for? Yeah, well the book has only been out for 11 weeks now, so I'm still quite active in the launch of it all. My, the core. Sort of wave one, I guess, of the tour has subsided. So I've been local for the last few weeks. I'm weeks and I'm so grateful for that. But it's picking up again. So I have a number of events that I'm really excited about here in the Hamptons, where I am right now in East Hampton. And I usually try to be really good about updating folks. On the surfaces, which I'm sure we'll talk about. And then in Atlanta as well. So a couple of book festivals and signings and, and things like that. And, and doing more speaking. You know, one of the wonderful things about writing a book and sharing ideas that you have and the experiences that you have is that people wanna hear you talk about them. And I love getting to do that. I love getting to do this. So, you know, God willing, that will continue to be how I spend the majority of my time. But I'm very much living, literally living a life of my own making as I'm promoting this book and, you know, being in conversation, pretty much constant conversation about it. Yeah. And you know, I would be lying if I, if I didn't say that, I, I am also still thinking about other writing projects and starting to form theses theses and pitches for, you know, personal essays and other things. You know, the thing about writing a book too is that you often figure out. Other things that are on your mind that don't make its way in the book. And I, there are so many other stories and concepts and ideas that didn't really fit in the book, in the scope of the book. But they're still with me. So starting to think about how they take shape in the world and, and so TBD on those, but I would say just actively still in a lot of conversations, both, in the podcast interview realm and then in person. Yes. I know you have lots of stories inside of you to still share, so have there been any stories that other people have written that you've been reading lately that has made an impact on you? Oh my goodness. I so admittedly, I love memoir and I love nonfiction, but I have been in fiction land. Lately, just because I've needed a, a gear shift, I've sort of needed to like consume stories in a different way. So I'm rereading Wicked. I know. It's so funny, I read it. Many, many, many years ago, probably 20 years ago I would say, and obviously so very familiar with the story. And then had seen it on Broadway and then the film, et cetera, over the last 20 years. But something about the world building and the ways in which stories that we know really well. Are reinterpreted, reimagined, reconsidered. I'm really drawn to that energy right now, and so I read James by Percival Everett. At the end of last year. And, and then, you know, found myself kind of again, moving towards stories that are, are doing that. So I'm rereading Wicked and I'm always kind of revisiting black women writers at work, by Claudia Tate, which is, is really, a collection of interviews that she's done with, with our legends, our icons, and it's, it's. 20 years old, the, the body of work. And it was reprinted a number of years ago. And I find myself revisiting that a lot as just a way I think of hearing the ancestors in my, clearly in my head and keeping them close. And the one voice that I think is, I don't wanna say is missing, but the one voice that I wish was more was prevalent. There was bell hooks. Yes, and I feel like bell hooks. Kind of gets separated from the black woman literary canon because she was very academic Yes. everybody's like fiction. I think her age too. I think there was a, probably a combination of things I do because you had a number of women who were academics as well in in that, in that work and who were professors and students of all sorts of things. But I think part of it was. Maybe the timeline that she was on. And there, there you do have a lot of, deep interpersonal and professional relationships with a lot of the authors in the book too. And so maybe that was just not, she wasn't as connected at the time of the work, that the work was being created. I don't know. I need to think a little bit more about that timeline. But yeah, I've just really been drawn mostly though to stories that. Are kind of these re-imagining of, of old stories? I, I love those two. Especially if, they've been like gender swapped or like culture swapped, like I love, like re-imagining stories, Yes. so. a, there's a book that I wish I could remember the name of, maybe, we'll, we'll find it and, and drop it in the show notes. But, that does that with the Great Gatsby, or at least it's looking at it from a black. A Black American lens based in Los Angeles. I think that, you know, the story sort of is actually rooted on the West Coast. So I, I just recently heard about it and tried to make a quick note, which is why it's not as top of mind in terms of the, the title and the author. But, it's written by a black woman and I am curious too about that might be next. the list of stories to dive into. But yeah, I love, I love when we, when we do that, 'cause that's part of what the human experience actually is, right? It's us again, sort of the stories being interpretations of these, a set of facts based on our own vantage point and, or, you know, our, our knowledge base or knowledge gap. So yeah, I'm, I'm so into it. And so my last question for us today is, what advice would you offer listeners who wanna make a positive impact in their communities? Hmm. I think I would say define community first and foremost. You know, I think that we. Are so hyper individualist, hyper individualistic, I should say, as a culture, in, in the United States. And, think that that has. We, we've lost the plot on what community actually means. I think sometimes we think about it, capital C community, as in joining big organizations and being part of groups. But even that sometimes I think gets, muddled by this idea of networking and you know, that it has to have purpose other than just learning how to human together. Learning how to people together. And so I would say if you don't know your neighbors or if you don't know the local bookstore owner or the people who, the baristas who make you coffee and or bag your groceries, like that's a really good place to start. You know, being in East Hampton full-time for the last two years and writing the book, it's. I've, I've had my house for, for many years now, but being here full-time, you know, I've really gotten that small town living and so knowing everybody at the libraries nearby and those kinds of things, they matter so much and it gives you insight into. What the community actually needs to thrive. And so, and, and the role that you wanna play in community, but sometimes it's just like, what does that mean to me today? And, and you don't have to be thinking about it as like a problem that you need to solve either. It's just like, what does it look like to share space with other human beings? You know, what, what does it look like to sit in the classroom of Earth School together, right? With some, with some other folks. And how might we, how might we do that together? And what comes when we, when we do that? I definitely agree because even if it's not with the goal of like solving a problem, inevitably there is gonna be a problem that comes up and so you already have that trust and that safety net with each other. So if there, like we don't knock on our neighbor's doors anymore and ask for a cup of sugar. And so like little things like that, just building trust and connection and like knowing you have somebody to fall back on, but also. Knowing somebody else, knowing that they have you to fall back on. So I love that. So. You know That's right. Right. We we'll, DoorDash some sugar before we cross the street and, and I get it right. I, I, the world has sort of been designed for that for us. And so I, I will say as somebody who still does not know all of her neighbors, I am a part of a association 'cause of where, you know, my neighborhood. It, it is, it's sort of contained in that we all belong to the homeowners association over, over here. It's optional, but everybody participates. And so there are often a lot of gatherings on the beach and you know, we get the food truck dates, we get the minutes from the home association, you know, and it, it sort of, forces you to think about what does it look like to be in community and just to learn how to be inconvenienced. Right. The inconveniences that come with being with other people and learning how to do that. Again, I don't think we know how to be sort of air quote put out, in a way that just comes with like being in contact with other living creatures. Yes, because we're all part of the ecosystem, as messy as it is. Exactly. Exactly. So that would be my advice. Just figure out what community looks like and just get to know the people where you spend the most time to start and kind of go from there. I love that. So thank you so much, Daria, for being on the podcast, and where can people keep up with you and the work that you're doing? Thank you. I'm trying to be good about. Focus. And so I would say I'm the most active on Instagram. It's where I'm usually the most consistent at Daria Burke, and then daria burke.com, which is my website, I would say is the other place where I, you know, look to support everything that I, I'm sharing out. But those are probably the two best places to, to keep in touch with me. Awesome. I will link all of that in the show notes as well. Is where you can get the book. So again, thank you so much for being on the podcast, and thank you listeners for listening. If you have stories that you wanna share, wanna suggest any topics or just wanna connect, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at Liberation is Lit or visit our website, liberation is lit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review. And remember, your voice matters and together through the lens of stories, we're gonna make a difference in the world. Until next time.