Sankofa Shadow Work (with Sara Makeba Daise)

In this episode, we have an enlightening conversation with author and cultural worker, Sara Makeba Daise. We explore the concepts behind Sara's book 'Sankofa Shadow Work: Diaries of a Diasporic Divine', discussing themes of ancestral connections, healing epigenetic trauma, and the South as a spiritual portal. Sara shares her inspirations, her journey as a newly published author, and upcoming projects. This episode delves deep into the powerful intersection of storytelling, social change, and cultural healing. This impactful dialogue redefines our understanding of heritage, love, and community.

00:00 Introduction to the Liberation is Lit Podcast

01:14 Meet Sara Makeba: Author and Cultural Worker

02:56 Exploring Sankofa Shadow Work

03:54 The Inspiration Behind the Book

05:04 Graduate Work and Afrofuturism

11:53 The South as a Portal

18:51 Grounding Practices and Ancestral Connection

25:51 Upcoming Projects and Final Thoughts

Sara’s Book

Sankofa Shadow Work: Diaries of a Diasporic Diviner

Books Mentioned in This Episode

Sister Citizen: Shame, Stereotypes, and Black Women in America by Melissa V Harris-Perry

The ElderGarten: A Field Guide for the Journey of a Lifetime by Sally Z. Hare

The Gender Binary Is a Big Lie: Infinite Identities Around the World by Lee Wind

Where to find Sara

saramakeba.com

Sankofa Shadow Work: Reframing Inheritance, A Virtual Retreat

Instagram

Thank you for being part of the Liberation is Lit podcast! If you have stories to share, want to suggest topics, or just want to connect, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @liberationislit or visit our website at liberationislit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review! Remember, your voice matters, and together, through the lens of stories, we're making a difference in the world.

Transcript

0:06

Hey y'all. Welcome to the Liberation is Lit Podcast where the power of storytelling meets the force of social change. I'm your host, Tayler Simon, and in this podcast we believe in the profound impact of stories. And I am so excited to be here in conversation with Sara Makeba days, and I'm just so excited to talk about her book and. I just me on a personal note, I've been fan girling and inspired with my own art about just her concept of Sankofa shadow work. So we're gonna get into it. Hey Sara, how are you doing today? Tayler. I am great. I'm so excited to talk with you. Shout out to Shannon and yeah, I'm just great. I am, yeah. Pleased to be here. It's been a rocky season, you know, so today Yes. Mm-hmm. I'm so glad to hear that today. Feels a little lighter, but you know, we, part of the work is we are taking care of ourselves, ourselves as part of the work too. So, yeah. So can you tell us a little bit about yourself as an author and a cultural worker? Yes, so I am a first time newly published author, which is very exciting. I have been published, in different, different journals and collections for several years, but this is the first collection of my work. Sankofa Shadow work diaries of a diasporic divine, and I really feel like. I wouldn't say it encompasses all, but it certainly speaks to, my work, my work as a cultural worker. My work as a diviner, as a public historian, as someone who intentionally archives and affirms a Black life in the past, present, and future, someone who reveres and elevates our ancestors and is very intentional, is very intentionally in relationship with. The land in our environment and where we are and our responsibility to these environments and to each other. So I, I in and out of a lot of different things, but largely my work is to both go back and get it, but also go back and get it and propel it very, very, very, very, very far into the future. With great intention, and it requires a level of embodiment in the present and a level of intention in the present That is easier said than done, but lot of practice. Yes, because a lot of it is like reclaiming what we have lost and. Kind of reckoning with those feelings of what always has been ours is being bad. And again, just reclaiming that. And I love the concept of, incorporating the concept of Sankofa in the shadow work because I feel like the conversation around shadow work, as it relates to white supremacy, it feels very. Individualistic. And, I was just reflecting the other day about just seeing all of the, like, feeling grief for white people who are just like, oh, I just wanna cut off my family. I cut off my ancestors , and just worry about me and my lineage going forward. And I, I felt grief for that because it's like, yes, there's, there's a lot to feel that weight of, but also like there's healing in healing that ancestral line too. So, and you talk a lot about that mostly with Black people, in Sankofa shadow work. So tell us about the book and the inspiration and why did you wanna put it out now? Thank you so much. So first I wanna say before I forget that to your point around white people and this grief around their inability to reconnect some of, the people that I work one-on-one with who sit with me to do ancestor work are white people and. Outside of a one-on-one situation, I presented Sankofa shadow work to a group of facilitator trainees in this, retreat, facilitator training I've been in throughout the year. And the majority of the group is white. And it was fascinating to witness what the work ignited and activated in them as. Like all of a sudden these white people. Remembered that they had ancestors that came from somewhere else. All of a sudden they were kind of tapped into the things that they had lost, that they had given up, the stories that they just don't tell, not just around. Race, but even gender and sexuality. So I'm very fascinated by that because as you said, this work centers us. This work is for Black, Black and indigenous people. This is, for those of us who have been pushed furthest to the margins. It started as my graduate thesis. I am a public historian, by degree, and my graduate work looked at how to heal epigenetic trauma in Black women via Afrofuturism. And after working on a plantation, I was a tour guide at McLeod Plantation Historic site in Charleston, 2015 to 2016, which I can now recognize as an initiation. This period sent me into school with a particular awareness of the trauma that. I was carrying, just living my life, you know, 2016 when the police are just killing Black people. And also the correlations between this history that I was learning about our enslaved ancestors, about our African ancestors who had been enslaved about the things that we had survived and navigated. And I'm like, oh, shit. And we, and we are carrying that as well. So it was like both. You know, hallelujah. To know that this is not all mine. You know, I can stop pathologizing myself. I still have to remind myself to stop pathologizing myself, but also like. Okay, now what with this recognition that we have inherited these things. So, my graduate work looked at exploring Afrofuturism as a path to healing epigenetic trauma, and it brought me to the work of Malidoma Somé, as well as, of course Octavia Butler. And it was fascinating to read these two works in conversation. Octavia Butler's work and Malidoma Somé, who is an indigenous, shaman from Burkina Faso, who was writing. Memoir about the very, we would call mystical and, and other worldly realities of the Dagara people in, Burkina Faso and. What we, what certainly Octavia Butler called fiction, you know, in the works that she was writing. And it was like, oh no, this, this is real. Like the time travel is real, all the timelines are present at once for real. And we can heal backwards and forwards for real. And there's this evidence. So that was my graduate work. And when I finished school in 2018, unbeknownst to me, I just began the process of the praxis. Like what do it mean to do this for real? What does it mean to engage my ancestors with all this new knowing that I have, what does it mean to learn and to teach? What does it mean to grieve what? What does it mean to recognize my emotions? You know, not just as data for me, but as ancestral communication. And then also like, how do I discern so I'm not running amuck just'cause I feel something, you know? So. I would say the book encompasses all of that channeled messages, my actual scholarship, research prose, divination, embracing my own shadows, embracing my ancestors shadows, changing the stories about how I see and hold myself, and also the recognition of all the systems of oppression, but particularly. The academy and our systems of education that have very greatly shaped how we see ourselves. Even if we think we have the highest vision of ourself, it's still, it's still pretty just dripping in anti-Blackness, you know, and white supremacy. And it's something to really tear those layers back and be like, oh wait, it's, it's entirely something else going on, you know? So. That is, that is the book. And I wanted to put it out now 'cause my ancestors told me to put it out now. And also I recognize the timeliness in that this world, this empire is ending. It is crumbling, it is terrifying. also. We must be really aware of what it is that, that we have, what it is that we are, who we are, who we are in relationship and community with who, who is the actual enemy that we are resisting. And how, how we gonna be, how we gonna be, and how we're gonna create new systems and new ways of being with each other and in relationship with the land because we don't have another. Home. This is our home, this planet. So yeah, that's a long and short. And Yes, all of it. And what I really love about Sankofa Shadow work is that it. Brings in all of these types of, ways of being, and I was just saying, the other night in our liberated, parenting, book club group that I really love works that. Center the memoir, the lived experiences, but also fiction and like you said, divination and things like that. Because we have been conditioned in this Western lens to only accept knowledge to be true if it comes from white academia, the literal ivory tower, Mm-hmm. and. How so much we miss out on so much ancestral knowledge and I'm, and it's weird, a weird connection. I'm listening to an audio book called The Gender Binary is a Big Lie, and it's this, history book for young adults about just how ancient cultures always had, multiple genders outside of the two and. How colonization often just erases that or makes it deviant. And how Sankofa shadow work just reminds me of how so much of our culture, even even Black people's relationship to divination and the mystical and even. Communicating with the ancestors is seen as demonic, and that is from a colonial lens and how, I love how books like Sankofa Shadow, where it brings in all of this together and it is a legitimate source of knowledge and praxis and how we can. See our history, see our present, but also see our future. So I just love that you brought all of these things together in your book. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for being an early reader and sharing your feedback and your blurb. It has meant a lot, and it's exciting as a new author to be in conversation with people who have engaged the work because I'm getting to see it and experience it in different ways, and that is like, oh, if I had never put it out, I would never, I personally, me, Sara, would not have the generous and generative experience, so thank you. Yes. And so something that you talk a lot about in your work is your philosophy around the South being a portal. And like I said earlier in the episode, that has been something that has really inspired my own artwork, through either being in conversation with my poetry, or I'm a digital collage and one of like my favorite pieces is like really inspired by, the South being a portal. Can you speak more about that work and that philosophy? Yes. Well first thank you so much. Thank you for being in conversation with that work., I wrote, be Here Now the South is a portal in 2020, so of course we're in lockdown at the time. I had just returned from Sierra Leone, west Africa that January and. I had, we were, we were on a Gullah Geechee Cultural Heritage Tour. And as some may know, many Gullah Geechee people can trace ancestry specifically back to Sierra Leone as Sierra Leone was a, a rice coast, and people were brought from there with, with the intention of, them growing rice with their skillset. So anyway, fan boutique took a group of about 60 of us to Sierra Leone and I was there for 12 days and it was such a, a whirlwind and, kind of otherworldly experience. That was my first time leaving the country. But I remember this feeling of what I write in the essay an enforced presence. Enforced presence. Like I didn't have no choice but to be very, in the present moment for a multitude of reasons. Like, I'm in a new environment. I need to be, I need to be aware. All kinds of things. So. Not only was the presence enforced, but I was also so aware of like multiple timelines converging. I was aware of these parallels between Sierra Leone and back home in the South. Things that I had read about, things that I had spoken about, but seeing in real time, like, Tamil women, Tamil women weaving sweetgrass baskets with, with one of the Gullah Sweetgrass basket makers that we, that came on the trip. Just kind of powerful, like, oh, you know. There, there was always more going on. There was always more going on, and there's always been a very obvious intentional connection across, across oceans, across dimensions, across continents. If, if this is going on still, you know, if, if, if this has, if this has continued. And so anyway, that's kind of just what I was seeing and sitting with and. Wow. I was just like, I gotta let somebody know.'cause all of that stuff that I'm feeling converge here, converges back home, you know, it's all present there too. And actually again, this is kind of, well, time is not linear, but recognizing a few years later, just again, how much. The, the academy and literature has shaped how we, and how I myself personally viewed myself as a Black southerner viewed, viewed the South with, with disdain or a sense of like, pathology or like, you know, downtrodden. And it's like again, whoa, whoa, whoa. There's way more shit going on here. And they lie, first of all, they lie. Second of all, if, if we can slow down and be with and listen, like. Not, only are all the timelines converging here, but all the spirits who are still very present because energy does not die they, they are here, you know, and all the systems that would have us believe that is linear. as what you were saying before that, that any, that any one person that it just starts with them and they can just like, forget, forget my ancestors. I'll just change it up here. Like the systems that would have us believing those things are what keep us from all of the reinforcement with our resistance and with our strategy and with our world building. So yeah, that's, that's what the South as a portal is about. In some ways, recognizing the South as this portal for Africana and indigenous ways of being and knowing and resistance that dispel the narratives of white supremacy and anti-Blackness and colonialism about us, about the south, about what is about this land, about the planet, all of the above. Yes, and I really felt that. That too about, and I see a lot in activist spaces. Quote unquote liberal spaces where it's just like, oh, well the south, we don't need it anymore. What happens to them? They deserve it because they voted for Trump or whatever. And I'm just do you realize we are literally on the front lines of what happens for the rest of the country, we are. We have always been at the front lines of everything. And to discredit that is. One. Very disrespectful, but also just not rooted in liberation. Like you Yes, definitely. Anti-Black. Yes, about? exactly. So I, I get so frustrated and, one of my, friends, she is like the executive director of the LGBTQ plus resource center here. She's like, the south often doesn't get funding for the projects because it's like, oh, well they're a lost cause and like the lost cause of the South. And it's no, like we're actively working. Like it has always been part of our lineages to like be in community and have that connection and work towards collective liberation. It's, it's just, it's been, it's part of our culture, part of our, our lineages. So. I feel like there are so many examples to that point, historically, throughout time of us only using what we have, but recognizing that we can't depend on the systems. And there there's very intentional effort, you know, with integration and all, and all of the, the moves that, that have appeared to be progress, that have, that have kind of like tempered our imagination. And, and, and our belief in ourselves and what we're capable of, and what we're capable of creating and building or doing differently. Yes, definitely. And that imagination part is so critical, and I know as a historian by training, it's, it's sometimes hard to, keep that imagination alive, especially in academic spaces. So what keeps you grounded in this work as a writer, as a public historian, as a cultural worker? What a great question. What keeps me grounded? I am an avid journaler, so it's very important for me to get the thoughts out of my head. And that medium, is one of the mediums in which I conjure and, and, and create and build the things that I imagine. So writing, journaling, that is very much a grounding practice for me. Also walking. Literally being in relationship with the environment around me as I walk, trying to kind of, again, be present with the, know, this, knowing that everything is alive, everything around us is alive. And to remember that when I go outside, like, how rude would it be to just not greet all the life that's rude as hell, you know, don't come up in my house and don't say hello. And so those are things that I try to remember. I don't wanna say too much on the, the, the violent white supremacist who is gone now, but I just remember thinking like, I didn't even know who this man was, and if I hadn't have got on my phone, I wouldn't know it all. And that, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a double-edged sword and that there's a lot of things that I need to know that I wouldn't necessarily know if I didn't look at my phone, but. Being able to find that balance and discernment and awareness of tapping into what is greater and not even just as real. It is more real. It's more real than these systems that would have us believe otherwise. It is, it has existed longer, has existed longer than these systems that would have us believing otherwise. So are a couple. I'm also in relationship with many other Black queer folk. My family and being able to talk being able to say shit out, that keeps me grounded knowing that I'm not the only one. That there are more of us. That, yeah, there's a multitude of us doing this work, even if it doesn't feel like it all the time, even when it feels very isolating. So those things keep me grounded, my brother's growth. As a Black cis het man, you know, that keeps me hopeful. You know, if that can happen, anything happen, you know? So, and he's a, he's a wonderful human being. So in relationship and witnessing others also grounds me in some ways. And again, being very intentionally in relationship with my ancestors. So be spending time at my altar, but just being in conversation with them, being in ritual with them. At all times. Kind of again, recognizing how rude, how rude is it to just not acknowledge the multitude, the great cloud of witnesses walking with me. And it is in my journal practice. I was just recently spending time with a 23, 20 4-year-old Sara, like the other day. I did not even know I had still so much shame in, self-loathing around that time. And among the things that I was able to retrieve and reclaim as I changed up the story as I gave her so much grace that she was needing as I honored her.'cause girl, look at us, you know, wasn't awareness like, oh, I was very protected. That's not to say that I didn't endure harm, that, that, that bad things didn't happen to me. That I didn't co-create situations that were harmful to me or others, but also, oh, there was a hand on me. There were, my ancestors were absolutely there, and I can see now with these eyes when I go back, when I go get her, like for all the times I felt like I was alone. I was not. I'm never, ever alone. Oh, thank you for sharing. And it was so funny, this morning actually, I was like, well, I got a little bit of time. Lemme try meditating. Randomly. So I just set a five minute timer and I was just like sitting and breathing and usually this is something I don't do, especially if I gotta be somewhere'cause I'm always perpetually late. I was like, well, I got five minutes before I have actually have to leave. And so. Little 6-year-old Tayler came and I just hugged her and there are just random times where she will come up and like she needs love. And there was one time where I was reading my journal and I was just like, I'm just giving you all the love you felt like you didn't have and that was, I, I was not expecting little 6-year-old Tayler to come up. I was just like, okay, just breathe and slow down and be still. And she just appeared and I was just like, oh.'cause she felt safe enough to appear and that was really powerful. And yeah, I, I, me just paying attention to a lot of those things 'cause I'm like, I wanna be in conversations with my ancestors, I don't know how. And it's just like, be still talk to them and, that's, that's literally just how you start like stillness and listen, because we're so used to like being in conversation of talk, talk, talk, talking. Mm-hmm. We're not listening, so. Mm-hmm. And rehearsing a story, you know how we can just rehearse a, a story that that needs to be reframed. There's also something different with intentionally speaking out loud, that story to your ancestors. And our ancestors are complex, they're nuanced. So I'm not saying everybody feel the same way about everything, but when we speak to them, they do speak back. You know, and we, when we, we recognize ourselves as that conduit. And what I always pray with, my clients is like, please speak to us in ways that we understand, speak to us in language that we comprehend. Because a message that might be obvious to you might not be, you know, the thing that I recognize. But there are a multitude of ways that they are, they are waiting to to support us and be in relationship with us. And I personally feel like affirm our liberation. And I say I personally feel like,'cause you know, you know, everybody who has transitioned didn't have politics necessarily that I agree with now, nor will the future necessarily have, you know, agree with my politics. I have it on good authority that our ancestors want us to divest from these systems and that what they thought was liberation, they can see now was not so, and we are not beholden. We are not beholden to systems that seek to kill us. Ase Yes, yes. And ooh. I definitely need to sit and digest a little bit about that, 'cause I've been thinking a lot about that recently. But in the meantime, what are some of your upcoming projects? I know you're gonna be promoting the book. Is there anything related to the book that you have coming out? Yes, thank you. I am offering my first virtual retreat on Sunday. I don't know when this will air, but it is the last Sunday of the month. Sunday, September 28th. It is called Sankofa Shadow work Reframing Inheritance. And it is going to be getting into, the way I am framing it is it is a retreat from the crooked room. So if you are unfamiliar, Dr. Melissa Harris Perry defined the crooked room theory and yes, shout out Sister, citizen. Yes. And basically, I, I feel like I, I'd be defining it everywhere I go, so I don't wanna take up all the time explaining it, but it's an opportunity, this retreat to step out of the systems of harm that have us contorting ourselves to align with them, with the belief that we can align with the system that is composed in our opposition. So this retreat is to take a step outside of that room in a safe space and, sit with shadow safely, explore some of Sankofa shadow work and some of the more intimate stories of my own kind of excavations and reclaiming and returning, sitting with our ancestors and recognizing very fully that no, we don't just inherit trauma. And with the, with the reframing, with the re, with the reframing. With the reclaiming, we can see again. Far clearer all that we have to work with. We can tell different stories. Sally Z. Hare and the ElderGarten says, my story is not my life. My story is how I make meaning of my life. And that's so significant to me because my story matters more than anyone else's story about my life. You know what I'm saying? Our story matters more than our oppressor's story about our life, and, it is both personal and interpersonal and communal work to change those stories and shift our gaze and, recognize again, just the, the vast power and tools that we have. So that is some of what we'll be exploring. There will be energy work, meditation, some guided journaling prompts, and I guess sitting with the work, sitting with some of our shadows and how to drench them in light. Shoutout to Zora Neal Hurston. Yes. Oh, I love it. And I'll make sure to link all of the, ways to sign up for the retreat and we'll go over all of the ways you can keep up with Sara. But my last question is, what advice would you offer listeners who wanna make a positive impact to their communities? Hmm. I feel like this is so cliche, but the work to remember how to love ourselves essential work. And I don't mean the performative self-love, and I don't mean like love yourself, so you don't wanna be with nobody. I'm not talking about dad, I'm saying again, we've been conditioned to hate ourselves. It's dressed as exceptionalism, but to begin the work of believing that you are worthy of love, that you come from love, that even if the 3, 4, 5 generations above you, even if your belief and understanding and relationship to them is like, no, they had it all fucked up. They, there's far more that we are made of and that came together to, to create us here now and. That has such a shift on how we show up on the choices that we make on the, the, the situations that we tolerate, or recreate the spaces that we stay in, the, the belief in what is possible for ourselves and our children. Our imagination kind of grows as, as, as we learn to love ourselves again. And most of know, if you honest, you can acknowledge, actually, I be hatin myself most of the time, and that's, that's on brand, you know, but it is, it is, it is work. It is work to, to remember how to love ourselves because I do believe that we come from love. So that is the advice that has come to me right now.'cause we need, we need that love to ripple out. We need it to, to reconnect us with ourselves, so that we can show up fully all hands on deck. Yes, and in my study on liberation, it has. The the liberation starts with how we claim our liberation for ourselves and how we talk to ourselves and that's gonna affect how we are in community with other people. And just like you said, ripple out. So thank you so much for this amazing conversation. I've been like so excited to have this conversation for the longest time. Where can people keep up with you and your work and buy the book? Thank you so much. I was very excited and I'm pleased. I hope we remain in conversation. You can go to my website, Sara makeba.com. I am selling books so. I am selling books. You can also get books from the retailers, but the book doesn't release broadly to the retailers until October 24th, October 24th, you can purchase the book from anywhere. Until then, you can go to Sara mcma.com and purchase the book from me. I have to wait until I get the next shipment of books from the publisher and then I will send them to you. But if you purchase them from me, then you can get them autographed, which is wonderful. But I will say whenever you are able to not only get your hands on it, but if you can also get the ebook, whenever you are able to engage Sankofa shadow work, your life will be changed. you get to hold it in your hands, whether I've signed it, I have put so much love and so much ase and so much magic and intention and activation into the work for this moment. You can find me on Instagram at Sara Makeba Threads at Sara Makeba. That's about it. All right, and I will link all of those down in the show notes. Do you know if you can do pre-orders yet, or is it just releasing on October 24th? Oh, you can do pre-orders now, and it Okay. to do pre-orders from Yes. well. So Mm-hmm. do pre-orders from Amazon, from Barnes and Nobles from all the places, Mm-hmm. that's a good look. Yes, and I will put all of those links in the show notes so you can make it the book. So thank you so much again, Sara, for being on the podcast. And thank you. Listeners, if you have stories you wanna share, wanna suggest any topics or just wanna connect, you can find us on Instagram. Facebook at TikTok at Liberation is lit. Or visit our website, Liberation is lit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review. And remember, your voice matters and together through the lens of stories, we're gonna make a difference in the world. Until next time.