Bibliotherapy in the Bronx (with Emely Rumble)

In this episode, we sit down with Bibliotherapist and author Emely Rumble. We discuss what bibliotherapy is and how it is used to help clients process emotions and discover new perspectives. Emely shares her journey into bibliotherapy, the cultural differences in its practice, and how it connects to Black librarianship. We also dive into the practice of bibliomancy, advocating for libraries, and how readers can make a positive impact in their communities. Don't miss this insightful conversation that highlights the healing power of stories and books!

00:00 Welcome to Liberation is Lit Podcast

00:20 Introducing Emely Rumble and Bibliotherapy

00:55 The Practice and Impact of Bibliotherapy

02:53 Emely's Journey into Bibliotherapy

08:08 Bibliomancy and Self-Discovery

12:57 Personal Reflections and Advocacy

19:16 Encouragement and Final Thoughts

Emely’s Book

Bibliotherapy in the Bronx

Other Books Mentioned

Decolonizing Therapy: Oppression, Historical Trauma, and Politicizing Your Practice by Jennifer Mullan

The Color Purple by Alice Walker

Where to Find Emely

Instagram

TikTok

Threads

https://literapynyc.podia.com/

Thank you for being part of the Liberation is Lit podcast! If you have stories to share, want to suggest topics, or just want to connect, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @liberationislit or visit our website at liberationislit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review! Remember, your voice matters, and together, through the lens of stories, we're making a difference in the world.

Transcript

0:00

Hey y'all. Welcome to the Liberation is Lit Podcast where the power of storytelling meets the force of social change. I'm your host, Tayler Simon, and in this podcast we believe in the profound impact of stories. And I am here, I'm like, I'm. I was able to keep my fan girl down because I've been following Emely for a while now. But I'm here with Biblio therapist and author Emely Rumble, and we're gonna just chat about what Bibliotherapy is and talk a little bit about her book. Emely. Hi Tayler. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm the one that's fangirling because your work as a literary activist is so inspiring and I cannot wait to get into it with you today. Yes. Thank you. We're just two sis, just loving. I just love just this energy and this vibe. But to kick off the conversation, can you tell us a little bit about yourself as an author and Biblio therapist, and what is bibliotherapy? Yeah, great question. So as a therapist, I specialize in, really. The practice of prescribing selected books. So that's across genre, whether it's fiction, memoir, poetry, or self-help to help clients process emotions, gain insight into their experiences and discover new perspectives. It's really deeply rooted in our storytelling traditions, right? As, as Black folks, and really turning to story, especially in marginalized communities where mental health access is. Difficult to obtain, to turn to stories as a source of strength, reflection, and connection. And so I curate books for my clients that are going to create space for them to imagine, and to pursue healing in ways that. Feel authentic to them. And so I will say as a mental health therapist, I don't always default to bibliotherapy for every client, but because so many of my clients are readers, and that's a care practice that they engage in daily, this is like a go-to method of mine. And so, I also support clients with expressive writing techniques, which is also a really big part of bibliotherapy and practice as well. Not just engaging with story, but like telling our own and writing our own down. So, that's what Bibliotherapy in the Bronx is about. It's my debut book. Becoming an author has been a, a wild ride. It is such a different landscape. Because I am a therapist right before, I'm an author, so so much of my work is limited to kind of the sessions, within my therapy room. And so writing the book has been really exciting because I've gotten a chance to help facilitate growth and understanding for other people who wanna try bibliotherapy or who are already doing it, but maybe not calling it that. And so that's really exciting as well. So how did you get involved in bibliotherapy and using that as a modality with your clients? Yeah, so I studied abroad in England my junior year of Mount Holyoke, at the University of York. And that's really when I realized that bibliotherapy is embedded in the culture, in England. And they even have like a poetry therapy pharmacy in London now where you can walk in and get a poem. For whatever symptom you have, whether that's depression, anxiety, a breakup, they prescribe poems. I think that's so cool. I wasn't there when that poetry pharmacy opened, but that's generally sort of the cultural, way that readers approach. Reading to gain insight and to heal out there. Ella Bertha, Susan Elkin, these are British, women who are considered biblio therapists in England. And so when I learned that that was actually a methodology that people were using, I was like, wow, I wonder what. The context of this history is within American culture. And so when I came back home, 'cause I've always been an avid reader since I was a little girl, I started doing a lot more research into Black librarianship, into the ways that social workers were engaging with narrative therapy techniques. And even though I wasn't finding so much on the literature of bibliotherapy or, or that coin term, there's a rich history. And Black librarianship, especially of the way that we've engaged literature to improve our reality orientation to, you know, value our own personhood. And then this is where as an adult and a practitioner, I started finding the names of people like Sadie Peterson Delaney, who was known as the godmother of Bibliotherapy, a Black librarian from she was the head librarian actually at Tuskegee and then was sent to New York City to work at the Schaumburg. At the time, it was the 135th Street Library, and so the more that I studied bibliotherapy in America, the more that I was unearthing all these unsung heroes and we know as Black. Women, like so many of the contributions of our ancestors have been just erased, silenced, buried, or, or just they're not cited in the texts. Their, their contributions are not actually named in popular media, and so. That was eye-opening to really discover that like, wow, what I'm doing isn't new. This is actually something that a lot of my ancestors and our foremothers and forefathers and for thinkers and scholars have been engaging with historically. And I just used that to inform who I became as a therapist. So when I went to grad school and I started, really understanding how narrative therapy works to help clients reframe. Traumatic stories and reclaim, healing and liberation for the self. I would find creative ways to come up with interventions. Especially when I started out as an intern, I was working at a day treatment facility for adults with schizophrenia and ask to run a socialization group. So I was like, oh, this is a great opportunity for me to try bibliotherapy. And I started doing a poetry therapy group and it was a hit. And so we did some expressive writing. We did some poetry reading and socialization goals were met. Attendance at the program increased. And so I think that's when I started to get taken a little more seriously.'cause in the beginning it was like poetry therapy. Like I was like, yeah, you guys asked me to do a socialization group. I'm gonna try this different approach and see, you know, what, what would work and it landed. And so I tell a lot of that story in the book as well because I think there is a way that the creative arts therapies are just thought of as like, oh yeah, that, but not taken seriously and actually. They're so useful for our mental health because they return us back to not just our ancestral histories and lineages, but also like to self, to find your voice, to activate, you know, your, your self expression. And I think what's more healing than that, you know? I definitely agree and I, what I've found about therapy and, reading Dr. Jennifer Mullen's work about decolonizing therapy is like Yes. in the Western tradition is very rooted in. Almost disconnection in order to push through to be productive. And it's all about making you Yeah. citizens. And I really love this approach to narrative therapy and bibliotherapy as a, like what you said, connecting to those ancestral roots, but also connection to self because. A lot like I, like I was saying, a lot of westernized therapy is about disconnection and how can we find those decolonized therapy practice that encourage connection. So I really, really love like the idea of bibliotherapy and of course me being a book nerd and something that I've seen you do on your social media platform is, oh, I can't remember what you called it, but. Almost that intuitive, like you, you just grab the book off the shelf and turn to a page and that is the message that you need to, yes, yes. Can you tell us a little bit about like bibliomancy and how that can be helpful in people's self-discovery journeys? Absolutely, and I, I do wanna say like, because people think of bibliomancy as a spiritual practice. It doesn't have to be, it could be something ritualistic that you do for yourself as a reader, whether you consider yourself spiritual in that sense or not. But bibliomancy is also something that like our great grandmothers did with the Bible or with. You know, religious texts, right? Like, there's so many ways in which when we connect with a text that is emotionally validating and soothing for us, we set an intention to continue to learn and glean wisdom from that text. And so what does it mean when you just set an intention and you go to a text that you love, a story that you love, with that intention? In the front of mind and you just randomly open a book, what passage do you land at? What could be a hidden message? Right., In that passage or that chapter or that dialogue or that scene that you've opened up to. I really love the practice of bibliomancy because it's also a beautiful way to return to the works that. Speak to us and give us strength and connection. And so whether it's a religious text or even a fiction novel, 'cause people always ask me that, they're like, well, can you do bibliomancy with a fiction novel? I'm like, absolutely, yes. And for those of us that like to physically interact with texts who heavily annotate text or highlight text or. You know, it's so cool to like go back to a text and, and randomly select a page and see where you land and see what you've highlighted or what note you've put in the margin and what connection you made after reading that might give you some insight for that day or that moment that you've returned to it. I think it's a really powerful practice and I think it's something that more people should try. I'm definitely gonna try the, I know the first book I thought to do it with was The Color Purple, Yes. That's one of my favorite books to do it with. Yes. So there's just, Classic. I, because I'm trying to get more into, well, I've been into tarot, but I'm trying to do it more regularly and just have Yeah. and then journal about it. Be because, trying to write too, so not trying to, I am writing, so, Amen to that. I love the reframe. You caught yourself. You were like, Nope, I am writing because I'm, I'm there with you. I'm there with you. I am writing. I keep telling myself that every day. But I love that you connected it to tarot because I think for some people who are, maybe like beginners at trying tarot or reading card mancy, you know. Oracle cards and things, there's often a feeling of self doubt of like, well, did I pick the right card? Or, you're overthinking it, and so what happens when you just learn to trust yourself? The card that I picked is the card that I was meant to pick. The image on the card has something to say to me, right? Even if you're not an expert in tarot, or the archetypes included, or the numbers or the, the suit, right. There's still something that you can learn from studying the image on a card, the symbols on a card, the number on a card, right? It's, it's really about self-trust. And so I love that you connected bibliomancy to, to tarot because I think it's the same thing. It's like just trust that where you landed is where you're supposed to land. And there's a message for you in that. Don't overthink it. Don't make it, you know, bigger than, it has to be just trust that. The message is, is there in the text, in the card that you pulled, because it's also a lesson in self-trust and like knowing that. So much of the healing journey is a return to our own intuition too. And I think to your point, bringing up Dr. Mullen's work. Shout out to Dr. Mullen, author of Decolonizing Therapy. Like that's really what it's about, right? It's like soul retrieval going back and. Reconnecting to the self is also about going back and reconnecting to the ancestors, to our lineages, to the wisdom in our bones that we have been disconnected from. Because Western society says that's unimportant. Assimilation is more important, or being able to produce is more important. And so these are like little exercises that reconnect us to our intuition. And that is soul retrieval, and that is soul integration, and that is trauma healing. I definitely 100% agree and. Speaking of returning to self, who are you outside of being a therapist? A BILIO therapist. And what kind of keeps you grounded in this work? Yeah, honestly, like before I'm anything, I'm a reader. I'm just me. Like, I'm always gonna be that little girl that was like head in a book, you know, wanting to escape in a book and just. Read and imagine. You know, I've always been kind of like a daydreamer. I was a really anxious kid. And so imagining new worlds and, and finding technology to help with daydreaming and imagining better possibilities is such a mechanism of survival. That has been my, my go-to, since I was really, really little. But of course, you know, all of those roles. Are part of my identity. You know, mom, wife, sister, daughter, therapist, author. But I, I really, when I get bogged down by like the weight of responsibility, 'cause I'm so tired and I know, you feel me, and I know we all listening to this part right now, you know, feel the same way. We're so just above our capacity and the world is changing so quickly. That I just try to remind myself to like return to that inner child and to return to that inner child joy, because joy is something that needs to be cultivated and practiced, and books bring me joy. So that's always what, how I'll answer that question is like I'm just that little girl in a library somewhere, you know, like trying to get a little respite from the world in a book. Yeah, I was just telling someone, the other day, I was doing a popup selling my books, my mom was doing one of her very first popups. She sells like, customized and mugs and things like that, and that's been great for her art artistic expression. And, I love that. to me about like finding books for her grandkids and like always wanting to. Still that, and I was like, well, this one right here, pointing to my mom. She had me reading before I was reading with my little Disney books on tape where it beeped when you turn the page, and I had. Carrying case. And I always go back to that story of like, those were some of my earliest memories and like just going to the library together when my sister was born, us all Hmm. the library, like rotating the three library cards, whoever had the least amount of fines. So like so much of my formative Years have been shaped around books and reading and so many memories are tied to books and just reading together as a family and things like that. So I love how like that's part of your core self too. Absolutely. That's such a beautiful story and shout out to Mom too for creating her art and sharing it with the world. I feel like that's what it's all about. And shout out to this new generation of kids who will never know what it's fights. If they have to pay library fines, they are so lucky. They have no idea. Right, because I was always like, I marked my calendar every day for amnesty days where your fines could be forgiven, but now it's Same. whoa. No fees. No fees. Our inner children could never understand that feeling.'cause I literally remember like begging the librarian, please let me just check out this one book. You know, my grandmother will pay the fee this weekend. You know, things like that. But I, I was fortunate to have amazing librarians and I, you know, I had a school library in my elementary and middle school. I believe my sons school has a, a librarian, but she's part-time. Most of the young people that I counsel though in middle and high school don't have libraries at school. Which is really sad because we just continue to see the defunding of libraries, and especially school libraries where we know for a fact kids have to go to school to be able to access books during the school day. That breaks my heart. That is so wild. I do a lot of advocacy here in South Carolina 'cause may have heard, we have a lot of book censorship issues here. Yeah. I know a lot of school librarians and I try to speak up. Because a lot of them fear losing their jobs and things like that, and I am just so grateful that we even have access to libraries here. We have multiple librarians at school, so like just hearing like the Wow. like I know going to the big library downtown was a treat for me, but like I would go to my school library like at least three times a week. Same. just can't imagine like how like kids today don't even have libraries in schools. And I know like in Texas they're taking them away and turning them into detention centers and Yeah. it That's a whole nother 20 minute conversation, right? Yeah. right. So, this is why I tell parents, like, do what your mom did, right? Like cultivate a love of reading at home so that it becomes a go-to practice for your child, you know, of, of loving reading and turning to books for enjoyment, not strictly for academic pressures.'cause I think that that's what happens is like so many. Young people are not growing up in households where reading is considered, you know, a, a hobby or where access to books isn't, you know, a thing. And so they go to school and that's where they first engage with literature, but it's based on academic metrics, not reading for pleasure. So that's like always the first thing that I tell parents who are like, well, I want, you know, to help my child learn to read before kindergarten. Or it's like, great, start building that bookshelf, right. Start reading at least 15 minutes a day if you can't do it before bed, like just build it into your family routines. Create a home culture where reading is appreciated and celebrated, and, because it does make a difference, Yes. And don't use reading as a punishment please. mess. That's a big one right there. Yes. School will do that to you. You don't need to do it at home. School will do that for your children. Exactly. Exactly. So my last question for you today is, what advice would you offer listeners who wanna make a positive impact in their community? I love that. Trust your, your gifts and operate in those gifts. You know, so many people are walking around feeling like they have nothing to offer to the world, and that's just not true. Everybody has. A God-given ability, right? Maybe that ability is kindness. You're somebody who enjoys spreading love and kindness wherever you go, right? Maybe that ability is that you're empathetic, and when whenever you walk into a room, you're the first to notice somebody sitting by themself, right? So you go over to them and you strike up a conversation. Maybe you're someone who is really, really good with the written word. And so then you can tutor other, you know, young people writing their essays. Like there's so many different ways that we are gifted and blessed with abilities that we take for granted.'cause we think, well, everybody can do that. And that's not true. We all have some aspects of our abilities, of our sensibilities that is a blessing to other people and to the world. And so that would be my main. Piece of advice is like, you are special. Nobody was born on the day at the time that you were born. There is a specific gift you've been given. Find out what that is. Then practice it, cultivate it, share it with the world to your, you know, point earlier about your mom, right? Like she is a whole mom, right? But she is making her art and she's selling it at popups with her daughter who's selling her books. Like, that's such a beautiful, that's such a beautiful thing, right? And it's something that you've made a family celebration point. So I just really hope that people trust that they have something to offer and that there's people in the world who need what they have to offer. I love that and I definitely lean into that message when things get hard with liberation is lit, but I'm like. There's so many signs from the universe saying this is what's needed. So yeah. Yes, and you're doing amazing. So inspired every time that I see your videos, I, I learn so much from you, especially around book banning in South Carolina. Like your work is so important and so needed, and it can only come from you. You have such an amazing way of sharing information that makes it digestible and like actionable, and that's your gift. You're an amazing communicator, so keep writing, keep doing what you do. I know it inspires me, and I know I'm not the only one. So, I'm grateful for you and if you ever feel like you need a boost of encouragement, you just message me, email me.'cause I will give you that boost of encouragement. I'm constantly inspired by the work that you do with liberation is lit and I can't wait to see what you do next. Oh gosh, thank you. And that was definitely the boost You are welcome. this week. You're amazing, Tayler Like, come on. You know that. So thank you so much Emely, for this amazing conversation. Where can people keep up with you and your work? And I'm definitely gonna link the, where you can get your book in the show notes. So where can people Awesome. and your work? Yeah, so I'm on social media, on Instagram, TikTok Threads and Facebook at literacy, L-I-T-E-R-A-P-Y nyc. And you can also find, me on my website, which is a great place where you could subscribe to my monthly newsletter, join my book club, and have access to a range of different resources. I also have a professional community, on my website, and that's at literacy nyc dot. Po Dia, PODI a.com. And of course, purchase and read bibliotherapy in the Bronx for more insight into this practice and how I go about using it with my therapy clients. Yeah, thank you again and I'll be sure to link all of those places in the show notes as well. And thank you listeners for being a part of the Liberation Is Lit podcast. If you want to suggest topics, wanna connect or just want to suggest any stories, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at Liberation is Lit, or visit our website, Liberation is lit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review. And remember, your voice matters and together through the lens of stories, we're gonna make a difference in the world. Until next time.