Disrupting the Publishing Industry (with Bindery)

In this episode, we dive into the world of indie publishing with special guests Naomi, Michael, and Marines. The discussion covers the motivation behind starting imprints with Bindery (a startup publisher that partners with large-scale social media tastemakers to lead their own publishing imprints), the importance of promoting underrepresented voices, and the challenges of traditional publishing. Each guest shares insights on their specific imprints, including Boozhoo Books, Mareas, and Left Unread Books, and highlights upcoming titles they are excited about. The conversation also explores the significance of supporting indie authors, the necessity of active engagement in the literary community, and how storytelling can drive social change. Tune in to discover how you can make a positive impact in the book world and support voices that need to be heard.

00:00 Welcome to Liberation is Lit Podcast

00:26 Meet the Influencers: Naomi and Michael

00:50 The Journey to Bindery

04:18 Championing Diverse Voices

07:31 Supporting Indie Publishing

14:19 Staying Motivated in the Literary World

18:36 Current Reads and Recommendations

21:53 Final Thoughts and Where to Find Us

Bindery Imprints

https://boozhoo.binderybooks.com/

https://leftunreadbooks.binderybooks.com/

https://mareas.binderybooks.com/

Books Mentioned in the Episode

Cry, Voidbringer by Elaine Ho

Orange Wine by Esperanza Hope Snyder

Love Be Damned by Briana Garrett

Firekeeper's Daughter by Angeline Boulley

Warrior Girl Unearthed by Angeline Boulley

Sisters in the Wind by Angeline Boulley

The Serviceberry: Abundance and Reciprocity in the Natural World by Robin Wall Kimmerer

Where to find the Tastemakers

Marines

Instagram

TikTok

Youtube

Threads

Michael

TikTok

Instagram

Threads

Naomi

Instagram

TikTok

Threads

Thank you for being part of the Liberation is Lit podcast! If you have stories to share, want to suggest topics, or just want to connect, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @liberationislit or visit our website at liberationislit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review! Remember, your voice matters, and together, through the lens of stories, we're making a difference in the world.

Transcript

0:01

Hey y'all. Welcome to the Liberation is Lit Podcast, where the power of storytelling meets the force of social change. I'm your host, Tayler Simon, and this podcast, we believe in the profound impact of stories, and I am excited to be here today with some bindery influencers slash imprint managers. I think that's, is that your title? We'll go over titles in a second. Titles, titles, titles. But I'm so excited to be joined by Naomi Madness and Michael to talk about why they wanted to start their imprints with bindery. A little bit about, what they do with bindery and they are pushing the needle forward to promote, promote different stories. So, hey y'all. How y'all doing today? I am doing great. Doing wonderful. So to kick us off, can you each tell us a little bit about yourself as a book influencer and why you decided to work with bindery in this way? And what do you love most about the work you do with bindery? Absolutely. I. an influencer, I like to talk about books that bring change for Black and Brown people. That's all I care about. I don't care about the genre. I mean, I care a little bit., I don't, I don't, but I'm, I, I tackle everything. Just, I want progress. And for me, bindery was an opportunity to do things differently.'cause I don't know, like anyone who listen to you, if you watch my content, you know, I've got a bone to pick with publishers. But Bindery wanted to do something that I thought was disruptive and I was like, I really like breaking things. I would love to be a part of that. So that's really. That's really why I jumped in. So I've been making contents on social media for the last 15 years. I've been everywhere, all over platforms and I kind of always find myself back to books and media. Storytelling in general. So that's kind of where my passion is, is just bringing a critical and thoughtful lens to the things that we use as entertainment. My challenge to my audience has always been to think about the things that we read, whether or not they're for fun or. For the vibes, you know, there's a level of, there being responsibility to ourselves and to our audience to also think about the things that we consume. And so I, from there, I also did some freelance work as an editor, and so when I heard about bindery, it just really felt like a natural progression for me, for like everything that I've done in this. Space and me as a content creator, and I thought it would, it really just sounded fun, to be honest, to be in on the ground floor of this project. So I reached out to them and I was like, Hey. I have been making book content. Probably for a little bit of over two years. And my content has, focused on uplifting Indigenous authors and, I read in every genre, but I especially love horror and I've become really passionate about women writing. Horror because I feel like it's a genre that has, long been dominated by men. and when I had the opportunity to talk with bindery, I jumped at it. It was right around the time I think when, Danica no's first novel was coming out and I was like, wow, there really. Only is one Indigenous rom-com on the shelves right now. What can we do to get more? So I jumped at this opportunity because I would love to be a place where Indigenous authors can submit their work and know that their story's gonna be championed. And that's kinda why, how I started. Liberation is lit. I started, kind of like all of you. I never grew my platform as big as y'all's., But I wanted to talk about. The stories that get us proximate to these large social justice and liberation, fights that we're so used to thinking in, statistics and policy. And I wanted to show the stories behind whether it's fiction or nonfiction, the stories behind the people who these things affect every day. And, so I, I went a totally different route and just. Started a, a bookstore. So I, I, I love, just being able to share books with people, and sell books that way. So my next question for you all is, tell us a little bit about, your imprint specifically and the kinds of books that you love to champion through your imprints. And, a book that. Is coming from your imprint that you're really excited about. I'll go first. So my imprint is Boozhoo books. When I started the imprint, I, my vision was I wanted to be a space for Indigenous writers to submit their work. And I found out that that is going to be a little bit more challenging, because, you know, there aren't a lot of Indigenous writers out there. And so I'm doing a lot of work on the back end, reaching out to community members to help grow the amount of submissions that I get. And I decided to open up to Women in, in Horror as well because I saw that they were underrepresented. So my first book is actually a horror book. It's a Ya A Horror Fantasy, that I'm super excited about it. It is coming out fall of 2026. Yay. My answer is really similar to the last one. I'm very passionate about anything Black and Brown. I think that in general we have to fight harder to get into these spaces. And then once we're in them, we're not championed as passionately. And my goal was to use this as an opportunity to. Champion Black and Brown people harder than anyone else is being championed. I'm very excited for, I have my first book with my imprints coming out next month. Cry Void, bringer. I'm very excited about that. That is a dark fantasy that feels very dystopian. It's not a dystopian, but like when you get in there, you're gonna feel it. So I'm very excited about that book. My imprint is called Mareas and I, my approach is, I think, a little bit different. I've always been somebody who reads very widely across genres. So I knew that I didn't wanna be genre specific and because the like basis of my, my. Platform has always been about like a critical approach to media. I wanted, my, my whole thing has been like finding books that make you think like, I, I can't guarantee you're gonna love or hate this book, but I can guarantee that it is thematically rich and that when you walk away from it, it's going to invite you to think deeper about the world around you. So those are kind of the leading things that I, look for when I'm looking through manuscripts in my ne very ne. My very next book that I'm going to publish is called Orange Wine by Esperanza Hope Snyder. And it is, Latine Realism and it is deeply in conversation with the magical realism titles of, of, its predecessors. And it is just very much a look about life in Bogota in the early 20th century and what women had to do to, find a life for themselves full of passion and art and family. And I know all of you kind of well. In general has this theme of like disrupting traditional publishing and all of you really want to champion like the voices that are. Very underrepresented represented in, publishing in general. So I wanted to ask what, what is something that you want listeners to know about supporting indie publishing, supporting indie authors? That it could be like the message that you say all the time on your social media, but what is something that you really want? Listeners to know about why they should be supporting indie publishers and indie authors. I think that something that we've seen through traditional publishing over the last couple of years is that, is how much, the mid list is shrinking and how much that like. It traditional publishing Big five is going to continue to chase the down the like rabbit hole of dollars, and so it's really flattening all of the titles that we see into just kind of the same thing over and over. Not to say that it's everything that's out there because they're still mid lists, people are still publishing, but the amount of support and the amount of like marketing dollars that are just going into trying to get the next. Big bestseller is kind of, it's really, really wild the way that that is going in, even with things with like placement at bookstores like that is changing. There's just so much that is giving way to only having a very limited number of stories. And it's a little frightening because I think that it's making books worse in general, like it's just making books worse. And so what I would love people to know is that, you know, we really, it's. It's unfortunate that it has to be this way, but we kind of really have to actively fight against this. And I think that there's a way that we can become passive in our own media consumption and in our own buying habits, right? And we just kind of like surface level, let ourselves be sort of drawn in by that tide. Only reading things that are the most popular and only engaging with things in a very superficial level. But authors, indie authors, indie publishers, creators really need. Active engagement, we need you to do more than just kind of see the post and like it right there Is that like element of having to invest time and invest energy and really curating your spaces and making sure that you're being an active participant and making publishing and books better and not worse by, you know, just kind of going with that flow. I think for me it's very similar. I say all the time that literature is the power to change the world, and I firmly believe that. I think if you look through history, every movement of liberation and oppression has centered art, especially literature. And I think that. It's, it's not an accident that as a whole, the publishing industry gate keeps what stories are being told. And I think one of the things that is very important for me when it comes to conversations about indie publishing specifically is that, we stand in the way of what is being pushed by our culture. is being pushed onto our culture for the future? And it's very important that readers understand that and that they are aware that when you are investing in the voices of marginalized people who are the ones being left out, you are investing in a narrative of change that is important for the world. So like fighting for indie authors is a way to fight for progress. And I also think that it's important that, we do the work because if we don't do the work, who else is? I think Michael mentioned it earlier. Even when authors of color are getting these traditionally published deals, they're set up with like one marketing person and that one marketing person has. Multiple books that they're focusing on and once they determine pretty early on which one they think is gonna be the best seller, they're throwing everything into that book and literally everybody else is getting a left behind. So I think we're in a really unique situation where we are getting to pick the stories that we fall in love with and we get to champion, and then we get to motivate our communities who have put this faith in us, to also support these books, in a way that I don't. Think that authors have been supported before. Yeah, I hear that often, from authors at Binder, is that I don't know if I'll be able to get this experience again. Yeah. and I, and I think the way that the world is going, what we do may become even, even more important, depending on the routes that publishing chooses to take and the decisions they end up making. Yeah. I definitely agree and I, as a self-published author, I've been very, hesitant to enter the publishing world because I know, like I'm, I'm, I'm a cancer, I'm sensitive I know like my story's not gonna seem, be seen as marketable or universal or palatable a lot of spaces. And I know that affects the way that. Just somebody, like a marketing director or representative is going to about and sell my book to bookstore owners. I've been kind of on the other side of going to the American Bookseller Associations, conferences where I'm just like. I'm tired of. Okay. Tired. Like you don't have to push so hard. Like Sarah J. Maas is gonna sell herself. Like, like I wanna hear. Right. I wanna, I wanna hear about like different books and perspectives and they keep. Talking about the same ones over and over, and I have so much beef with like the rep picks and speed dating, and I'm just like, okay, where are the diverse options? Like where are the Black and Brown folks? Where are the Indigenous voices? Like where are the disabled voices? Where are the queer voices? Where are the trans voices? And it's like, oh, there's like one or two. Maybe a season. Yeah. even in reading, Toni Morrison's biography, Toni at random, thinking about how she had to make the conscious decision of like, okay, we can't have two Black books competing in a season because, we don't want to undercut each other in the sales for each of the books. And so like, it's. feels so icky with publishing in that way. And I know some of you talked about just like how bookstores are selling books and I know I have my own struggles because I mostly use books for financial reasons, but, I, even in bookstores and like the Barnes and Nobles and like, even the bigger indie bookstores like. Okay. They're going to put out the books that sell better and that affects people's ability to see more diversity and champion these voices. So I know this work can be hard and disheartening sometimes, especially with the state of the world. So what keeps each of you grounded and keeps you moving forward in this work? For me, it is that I know I get messages at least once a week from an author who is telling me the way that a video I made changed their life. put me on the map, you got a book box, picked me up because they saw your video. I sold a hundred copies and now I've sold, like, I get those messages all the time, and for me it's. the thousands of authors who I know not come across another person with influence, who will read an indie book, who will read a Black book, who will read a Brown book. And so I'm very motivated knowing that there are so many authors. Waiting for their turn and how much progress will be lost if they don't get it. And also it's, it's the fact that I know that there are those bookstores who would be fighting for change if they just understood that if they made it their brand, people would get on board. So I, I find it very motivating knowing that I can create conversations that convince readers to be loud about the fact that they will show up if the businesses with the power to put those books in front of them will fight for them. I think for me, kind of approaching this from a different angle, especially'cause I've been doing this for so long and like the reason that I, you know, I've seen people that I started YouTube with come and go, and I've seen people who I started TikTok with come and go. And the reason that I've been able to stay making this content for so long is because I've given myself the like ability and the grace. To take breaks when I need them. When you are doing sort of any sort of social justice work or any sort of work in this realm, it, it can be very easy to burn yourself out. And so I think that building a community around yourself that you know that if you're in this for the long haul, that like there are times that I have to tap in out and you tap in and I need a break and I need to go touch some grass and I need to go talk to my in real life community for a second because the internet can. Also be kind of overwhelming at points like that, that ability to balance because it is more important, I think, that you're in it, in this work and in this fight for the long haul, rather than just kind of burning out bright. So I, I think that keeps me motivated as well, is like being able to say, okay, I've got a long kind of journey ahead of me. I need to be able to know when it's time to fight, when it's time to rest, when it's time, when it's time for my voice, and when it's time for somebody else's. I think that, for me it's, it's a little bit different because I feel like I cannot rest. At all because, and it could be just the pressure that I put on myself. When I think about other Indigenous book creators in this space, I can probably count them on two hands total. So I feel a bit like if I'm not gonna be talking about these books, who is gonna be talking about these books? And, you know. I don't wanna stop, but I do try to get outside and, and touch grass as someone who, the luxury of living next to the ocean and the mountains. And the forest. I, I do try to get out a lot to do it. But I'm, but I'm always coming back, pretty quickly. Okay. I love that. And, yeah, I, it's, trying to find that balance between making sure these voices get heard and are represented and nobody else seems to be doing it, also taking care of yourself for you to be able to be there in the long run. And I know I have my challenges around that as well, and I'm trying to figure out the things that I can say no to so I can like. Keep saying yes to things. And of course I can imagine reading is a part of a lot of your self care, so what is, you know, okay. Like At reading is time it's stressful. yeah. I get that.'cause there's like some books, I have a to read a book for book club tomorrow and I'm like 20% in and I'm just like. Been there. see if we get this done. Thank God the author is coming so I don't have to come up with facilitation questions. so funny. Yeah. But what is something that you've been reading lately, whether it is, I know you can't talk about a lot of upcoming titles yet, but what is something that you've been reading late lately, whether it's like something you're excited about for submissions or just something in general that you've been reading? That doesn't give. I am actually reading a really exciting submission that I can't tell you about, so for everybody pay attention., But I actually just read a book called Love Be Damned by Ashley Garrett. I believe her name is. That book was so weird. I loved it. I loved it. It is about a, a fashionista who has to become a demon hunter to save her sister from a boyfriend who's been replaced by a shape shifting demon. It's so fascinating. I am, I'm gonna sound like Naomi here, but I actually just finished reading or while I'm in the middle of the third book of an interconnected series, so it is Fire Keeper's Daughter and Sisters in the Wind and Warrior Girl on Earth by Angeline Booley, and I'm in the middle of Warrior Girl on Earth. And I've just been sobbing my way through these books. They're so, so well done. So. Thoughtful. So tender, so earnest. So page turning, and like every time I'm like, surely there's not another way that this woman can rip my heart out. She's like, yes I can. And I'm like, cool, cool, cool. A hundred percent. I just finished Sisters in the Wind like a few days ago. So, I, I really love Angeline Bowie because I feel like, when you read her series, I love that they're all interconnected, but like, you don't have to read the one before necessarily, but by the third one, that just came out this year. would actually recommend people do read the ones before because there's like little, you know, they all kind of connect and it feel, I feel like it's a richer experience, Yeah, you have them and her stories just keep getting better and better. agreed. So. Me to read this. Yeah, the fire's daughter. Been on my list forever, but I'm also like everybody else, kind of obsessed with K-pop, demon hunters. So I'm gonna put that love be damned on my list too. So, and I've been, I've been just doing, at first I used to like run in the mornings and I was just like, this doesn't actually give me joy. So I've been like taking like hot girl walks and listening to my audio books and it's been amazing and it's so much better for my mental health and like, I do not like. I don't wanna run. I'm just gonna go to sleep. I'm just like, Ooh, I'm gonna go listen to my audio book and walk. Audio books. Audiobook walks are literally the best. Yeah. I try to do them often by myself, but recently, like groups in my area have been putting together like a get together so you can meet other book lovers and do your own audiobook. And I just think that's a really cool way to, build book community. Around yourself. So I've, I've just finished Sisters of the Win. I also recently finished the Service Berry, by Robin Wall Kimer. And I, one of my goals this year is to read more Indigenous nonfiction because I've read a ton of Indigenous fiction. But I haven't read that much nonfiction. And this is a great book, to help you touch grass, you know. Definitely. And my last question for you all today is, what advice would you offer listeners who wanna make a positive impact in. Mm. Buy all of the books from our imprints and buy copies to give away to your neighbors. I, I think specifically to people who wanna make a difference in the book community, support the people who are doing the work. The first step. And by that, you know, I obviously don't just mean us and what we're doing though, what I think we're in doing is very important. But I mean, support supporting authors as well, traditionally published authors that the best thing that you can do is pre-order books. I don't think we talk enough about how important pre-ordering is. Especially for marginalized authors. It can make a, make a huge difference, on their book's journey. I would agree with, supporting the. People doing the work and even, and that's like from the perspective, if, if there's something that you're really passionate about that you want to make content around, or support or anything along those lines. It's very easy to like, feel like nobody's talking about this. I, I'll be the one, but I can guarantee you that there's someone out there talking about it. And so there is so much worth in like trying to go and find the person who is already talking about this one to support them. And that doesn't mean that you're also not going to join the work and make the content, but so that you also know, okay, what, where are the gaps? Where can I help the most? What, what is, what is my voice gonna add to this? Versus just kind of doubling the voice instead of knowing when to pass the mic and where to fill in gaps. Like I think that's so important in community building. So just knowing who's doing the work, supporting them and knowing like where, what your fit and your role into all of that, I think is super important. I would also say for me, the thing that I really encourage people to do is to read indie, not exclusively, but read indie. There is so much change that can happen in this industry that will not happen until. We collectively change our mind about Indy. That's where, that's where most of the Black women are we already know we're not getting into progress without them. So go read their freaking books, talk about their books, reexamine whatever you've decided for yourself that make you go, when you see an indie fix it. Agreed for all of that. y'all so much for spending this time with me on the podcast. Where can people find each of you and keep up with your work and your, the releases that you have for your imprints? So I am at, my name is Marines all over the internet. You can find me there on, on social media sites, but my home base is on bindery, and that's Mareas dot bindery books.com. So there you'll find all the information about my upcoming releases and cross posts to all the things that I post online. My, my base is bindery as well and it is left unread books bindery books.com. Sorry it's so long. But you can find me everywhere on the internet at Michael Lorne. And I am everywhere on the internet as from the mixed up desk. My, the link to my bindery is. There. My bindery is bou dot bindery books.com. So for the spelling, go follow me on Instagram. I will post all of the links to the social media and the bindery websites where you can follow. And I will. I wanna say there's free options to follow and keep up with updates too. Yes, so there's free options. If you can't like me, the coins aren't looking right for right now. There's ways to support and share and amplify this work that is free 99. So I will place all those links. And speaking of the pre-orders, I will post the pre-order links to Cry Voidbringer. And Orange wine, in the show notes as well. And so thank you so much for being a part of the Liberation Is Lit podcast. And thank you listeners. If you have stories you wanna share or wanna suggest any topics or just wanna connect with us, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at Liberation is lit. Or visit our website, liberation is lit.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. And remember, your voice matters and together through the lens of stories, we're gonna make a difference in the world. Until next time.