Besieged with Longing (with Jandy Nelson)

In this episode, we are joined by acclaimed author Jandy Nelson. Jandy shares her unique journey from poet to fiction writer and the profound impact of storytelling. They discuss her latest book, 'When the World Tips Over,' inspirations, and the role of books in social change. The conversation delves into the challenges of book bans, how to support authors, and the importance of community and joy. Jandy and I also exchange thoughts on upcoming projects, favorite reads, and advice for aspiring writers. Tune in for an inspiring and uplifting dialogue on literature's power to transform.

00:00 Introduction and Welcome

00:40 Jandy Nelson's Journey to Fiction

03:28 Tayler's Fiction Writing Aspirations

05:46 Jandy's Latest Book: When the World Tips Over

11:42 The Importance of Book Advocacy

18:53 Finding Joy and Staying Grounded

20:28 Recommended Reads and Final Thoughts

26:19 Closing Remarks and Farewell

Jandy’s Books

When the World Tips Over

I'll Give You the Sun

The Sky Is Everywhere

Books mentioned in this episode

Looking for Alaska by John Green

The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison

The Perks of Being a Wallflower by Stephen Chbosky

Black Boy by Richard Wright

Night by Elie Wiesel

The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny by Kiran Desai

frank: sonnets by Diane Seuss

Martyr! by Kaveh Akba

The Bottom of the River by Jamaica Kincaid

How It Feels to Float by Helena Fox

Where to Find Jandy

https://jandynelson.com/

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Thank you for being part of the Liberation is Lit podcast! If you have stories to share, want to suggest topics, or just want to connect, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @liberationislit or visit our website at liberationislit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review! Remember, your voice matters, and together, through the lens of stories, we're making a difference in the world.

Transcript

0:08

Hey y'all. Welcome to the Liberation is Lit podcast, where the power storytelling, meets the force of social change. I'm your host, Tayler Simon, and in this podcast we believe in the profound impact of stories. And I'm super excited to be here with Jandy Nelson, author extraordinaire. Hey Jandy. How are you doing today? Hi. I'm so happy to be here. As I said, this is my very first podcast, so I'm thrilled. Yes. Well, we hope this is such a pleasurable experience for you. I know, I know. Yes. So, Jandy, can you start us off by telling us a little bit about yourself as a author? of course. So I kind of came to writing fiction in a circuitous way. I, started as a poet, like you, and I only wrote poetry my whole life. I thought, okay, I'm, I'm a poet, I, went to grad school for poetry. I had a job in publishing as a literary agent for 15 years, and I loved fiction. I was obsessed with narrative, like voice-driven narratives, but I was a poet. And then, and I got obsessed with picture books and so I really like. I just love visual art and just the way the poetry and the, the visuals go together. I was obsessed. So I was like, you know what? I'm gonna do a low residency program in children's literature. And when I got there, of course I hadn't only written poetry and so I read poetry and someone came up to me and said, you know, you should write a verse novel, a ya verse novel. And I was like, what's a ya verse novel. I didn't know there were verse novels Since Homer. And so I did a deep dive, did a lot of research, and I had this, I had experienced this very intense loss and I, this girl just like, fell into my mind, this young girl. And so I wanted to write about her and she'd lost her sister, and I just imagined her writing these poems and writing them on scraps of paper and on candy wrappers and on barn walls and benches, and leaving these poems all over the house. Outta the house all over the town, like basically writing to her sister who was no longer there. I thought, okay, that'll that. That'll be the novel. It'll be a verse YA verse novel. And then I started doing that and the poems are still in the book, but I realized I had to. prose tie the book together and like that was the only way I was gonna, this, this young girl was gonna come alive. And because I didn't think of myself as a fiction writer, and no one would ever read this. So I went for it and I just wrote the novel and. Was how I got kind of tricked into writing fiction. And so I don't think I would've otherwise. I think it was very fortuitous. So that's what happened. And then I, and I like to tell that story too, because I didn't write a word of fiction until I was 40. And so I feel like the, our whole, the whole publishing industry, all our society loves the young Ingenue, the phenom, and so many amazing books were written like Dracula, Bram Stoker was 50 and Proust was in his forties, and all these people. So I like, I like to tell that story so that like, know, I really believe in second chances, third chances, changing your life, like at any point. So that's what happened to me anyway, that was the story. That is so inspiring because I've been trying to write a fiction novel for like the last two years, and now I'm thinking maybe I need to write it in verse. Because Yeah. wrapping my head around just Yes. like 50,000 words of fiction or 60,000 words of fiction, I'm like, but. do that. Is it, is it adult or ya or? It's probably gonna be adult. It's, so the idea is, for a horror novel about three generations of women who are first with getting whatever they asked for. So it's like based on, inspired by my grandmother, she would be like, I always have to be careful what I say because it might come to pass and it's. I've seen it from something as little as like, oh, it's gonna rain and it's sunny outside to we're going to war. So Oh yeah. Tayler, this is That kind of inspired me. Yeah. a great idea for a book. I adore it. I would pick it up in a second and, and now my agent, like my old agent mind is like, oh my God, this is a great, great idea. No really, and yes, do it in verse. I feel like there aren't that many, like, I think there's like Vikram, Seth wrote the book Golden Gate, but that's like the only, are there other novels in verse for adults? I don't. You could be the first. well, Ellen Hopkins has written a couple for adults. Is that written in verse family lore? I know Elizabeth Acevedo typically writes in verse and family lore is her adult novel. But I did an audio book so I can't remember if it's in verse or not, but no, it's not. And I think there's something I feel like for young adults, verse makes thick books less intimidating. And I think for adults we are living through PTSD from studying poetry in school. So, A hundred percent. I know it needs to change. I'm actually just thinking, Jacqueline Woodson did, of a Family Portrait. Have you ever read that? It's oh, I haven't, but I've read Brown Girl Dreaming, which is technically, I think young adult, but yeah. But, yeah, I think you're right. I think that it'd be good for adults, especially in, in our times right now, to, to have more poetry in their lives. Yes, definitely. And speaking of books, can you tell us about your latest books, when the World Tips Over and what inspired you to write it and what do you hope readers will get from the story? Okay, that's three parts. Okay. So the book, I feel a little like Rumpelstiltskin because I've been sleeping for a hundred years because it took me 10 years to write this book like it. It is basically everything I've ever wanted to write in one book, and so it's this multi-generational saga of a Northern California family. And it's also the story of a mother and daughter who live in this rv, basically at the edge of the world. It's a fairytale, it's a mystery. It's a scrapbook, it's a food memoir. It's like a love letter to California. It's, it's, full of family curses and like yours and rivalries and love stories upon love stories like every kind, queer, straight, familial, platonic, and. So it's, and it, I mean, in more practical terms, it's the inspiration was this house that I would pass all the time when I was going up north to revise my other books. So for years, for basically seven years, I would pass this in the middle of nowhere. It was a Victorian house. It looked enchanted to me. It looked like light struck and I'd always pull over. I was like really drawn to it and. started to imagine these characters and I would saw, would see the kids. I would see Dizzy, who's this like commotion of a girl, young girl, like pulling a souffle outta the oven. And I'd see Miles, who's very like in the book, he's got a lot of secrets, I would imagine him upstairs and went in with his violin. And so I just started seeing the kids and then a year would go by by and I'd stop again and traipses around like a criminal. And then I would be like. Oh man, maybe, like, what about the parents? What's their story? And then I was like, well, who built this house? Like, where did this house come from? So I took the story back like a hundred years and that's basically how it, why it and how and why the story happened. And the amazing thing is about it is I went back recently when the book was done the house was gone. It's gone, it's razed to the ground. There's just a field there. And I was like, I was so stunned. I was like, maybe it's in the wrong place. I'm losing my mind. And I ended up, I called my editor and I was like, you're not gonna believe this. The house is gone. And I swear to God, if I hadn't taken so many pictures, thought I invented this whole thing. But then she was like, of course it's gone. It's in the book now. So I liked that. But it was funny, I was telling the story to Ransom Riggs, who the the writer. And he said to me, but did you go in the house? Ever did you? And I was like, it didn't even occur to me till he said that, that I should have gone in the house. But anyway, I never did. But so that's the inspiration for the book and what I hope take away from it. When I was writing it, I was very much obsessed with. I think every character in the book is just besieged with longing. And I was a little bit too, when I was writing it, and I, I, so I feel like I came through writing it, this idea that like safe harbors found in other people. That there's always gonna be joys hidden away in Sorrows and that was thinking a lot about splendor and how it's everywhere and so, I mean, those are just what I was thinking about. So I would hope maybe people would come away with some of that. Also with a full belly because, or Hungry Belly, because there's so many souff slaves in the book and I got obsessed with Souffle is writing this book. Oh my gosh. So are there like recipes? I haven't gotten to read it yet, but I'm excited to get to it. Are there like recipes in there too? There's, so there's like many, there's five point, point of view narrators and one of them is the mother who is a chef. And so she does talk a lot about food. There's a lot, a lot of people have told me that they get absolutely starving reading it. And I took a lot of food. I took a lot of classes. Like I took, three souffle making classes. I took, another cooking class, and so I got really into it. And yeah, so I, I am actually pretty good at making souffle's, which is funny because with, I'll give you the sun. Also took classes. I was very bad at all the art classes because Noah and Jude are artists, but, the souffle is by the end I got pretty good at. We love a good research, a book, so you lived it. kind. I know. I always say, I always say I'm like kind of a method author, like they have method actors. Like I gotta know everything when I'm writing. Yes, and I think that's why I've gotten sucked into the writing process for the horror novel that I'm writing because I'm like, I need to know everything. I was not born in this time, so I need to do historical research and all these, how do people talk? What were the smells like? I don't know. No, totally. I think it's like the best, well, for me it's the best part of writing. Like I love it and I don't mind, I allow myself to get lost in research because I think ultimately it helps the book. I know that some people say, you know, don't get too, don't get, a lot of people say, just write the book and then do the research after.'cause you can get so lost in research. But for me, I love it. It's like the be for me, it's the best part. It's just so. You know, it's just another way to really get in the world and to leave this world and just subsume yourself in another, you know? And that. That is the power of books, right? To experience different worlds that may not be similar to your own or experience a world that is your own, but a little, a little lighter and a little, imaginative of what could be. As part of her life. And so that's why a lot of, book censorship really breaks my heart. I do a lot of advocacy here in South Carolina. And I know you're an author with a frequently challenged book. What, what are your thoughts on, what we can do to stop book bands and how can readers support you as an author when your book is, banned or challenged? That's so nice of you to say, to even think of that. But, so thank you for so much advocacy you're doing because. honestly can't believe the times we're living in. I get, like, either every week, sometimes multiple times a week, you know, either emails or texts from librarians, from students, from kids all over the country saying the book is challenged. I've had a librarian told me that a kid was reading, I'll Give You The Sun. It was literally ripped out of their hands. I know, and it's just, it's just so awful. I feel like there was more, like, I wish I had better ideas. I think the, the things that I think about are, if you're politically inclined, running for library boards in, especially in conservative communities is amazing. I think if you have kids in school, getting on the school board, even if you don't have kids in school, I think writing letters. When, you know, a book is challenged to the library board, to the school board saying how much the book means to you. I think all that helps. I actually think, you know, I was at the American Library Association conference this year and talked to a lot of librarians who suddenly are on the front line of this battle. They're like the real warriors and heroes. So I feel like supporting your librarians, Writing letters of support to them is like, I feel like they kind of need it. It's, it would mean a lot. And also just getting a library card if you don't have one. Going to the library buying banned books. Oh, starting a band book club. I think those are the greatest things, either for teens or for adults too. I mean, when I, I was actually looking at the top 10 books that were banned last year. Bluest Eye, which is one of my favorite books ever, is number two. Some of the best YA books. Ever are on that list, like perks of being a wallflower, which helps so many kids coming out, which helps kids with family issues. Looking for Alaska, which it really is a, an amazing book and helps a lot of kids with grief. And I just, it's just mind blowing to me. But I, I do think band booked groups are a great idea. I really do. But Yes. I, there's a couple of them here. Well, I'm in Columbia, South Carolina. There's a couple of them. Liberation is lit, always has the books that are banned in South Carolina, new for purchase and then use books that are banned elsewhere. So definitely making sure you are providing young people with this material they no longer have access to. But also, like you said, the book clubs, to have those nuanced conversations instead of like, oh, these are hard topics, or. Not hard topics. We just wanna erase people's experiences, so we don't want our kids to have access to them. No, this is the real world. Just because they turn 18 doesn't mean it's now all of a sudden they should have access to learning about this stuff. No, it's, you know, it's so interesting. I was thinking about this today that like when I was in ninth grade, I had this teacher and she taught the theme of the class was Man's in Humanity to Man. And we read like, black Boy, and we read Night and we read, and I was thinking about probably all those books would be banned for high school for a classroom these days. And how incredibly revelatory that class was. It was like the, I think that opened, I probably is why I'm a writer was that class because it really taught me like what you were talking about before, like. How you can really step into someone else's shoes and how you can live another life and how you, and it kind of activates you, makes, turns you into li, turns us, turns us all into little activists because you're like, holy shit, look at the way the world is. Who you know. I think also obviously it's mirrors and windows for kids to read books like that. So yeah. I'm, I'm with you. I'm so glad you have a bookstore and I'm so glad you have. You know, you sell, you sell the banned books and everything. It's amazing. Thank you so much. I, I try to do the work in my, my little lane so I don't get overwhelmed with everything that's happening in the world. That's so good. Mm-hmm. good. I think that's the way we all have to be. I was actually thinking that too. Like I was looking at my cat this morning, go around the house like looking for tiny shafts of light to sit in, like she'll find the tiniest shaft of light and I was like, that's how we all have to be right now in this time is just like, find that tiny little bit of light 'cause it's pretty dark out there. Yes. And. People say it's always darkest before dawn, but I it's kind of Mm. that. I don't know. I feel like there's a blanket and like we need to rip the blanket off and then we'll see the sun. It's not really nighttime, it's, it feels a little manufactured right now. Oh, I agree with that. It's funny. Did you listen to that podcast between Tan Coates and Ezra Klein? Have you heard that? Yeah. Oh, well, part of it. Well, he said this one thing that has really stayed with me, Coates did about that we don't know what's gonna happen. and it just actually filled me with joy and hope. It's like that's so true. Like we're all ki like I tend tend to go, oh my God, when I'm reading the news these days and it's like, but who knows? We could have president AOC in six years. It's kind Right, and I, I think what gives me hope in these times right now is not only leaning on community and not waiting for. Who we thought would, was a, I guess, who we thought was qualified to lead a country, I mean, in certain positions, not. Others. But leaning on community to just provide what we, we all need, especially when a lot of things are getting cut right now, but also thinking ancestors went through a lot worse and Exactly. we are the, we are the, the product of coming out on the other side. So. That gives me hope too, about, I saw a post on Instagram the other day and there's this guy saying like, we are the ancestors now. We are the ones that in the future they're gonna be like, oh, these are people who fought for like liberation. So. I love that. And I, yeah, I think that's, that's great. It was funny when I, when I was writing this last book, I was. Thinking a lot about like generational stuff and like we, we hear so much about generational pain I was actually thinking in this book so much about generational joy too, that we have like, like yes, it flows through us as well. It's both. It's everything. So yeah. And I, I do, I love the idea that we are the ancestors now. It's very cool. Yes. And kind of inspired by your cat of like finding the little shafts of light. What keeps you grounded in this work as an author? What are your little shafts of light that you sunbathe in? Oh my God. I love that. Well, I think for me, what keeps me grounded is. Is the work itself, like I feel like one of the reasons when I wrote that first book, which I never thought would get published, I, the reason I was so won over by fiction was it was like I could not believe that I figured out a way to live multiple lives. And of course it's reading is like that too, but it was so profound. It was like, you live this life or your normal life and then you get to go into this other world with these people and this. Everything, this joy, the sorrow, this grief, and it just felt like such an incredible gift. And so I think for me, what grounds me is. Getting back to that, like blocking out the world sometimes, but also blocking for me out the publishing world, the marketplace, the reviews, critics, everything, and just like falling back on story. And like sometimes when I'm driving around, I like miss my book. I, I get this weird impulse like I wish I could call my book. You know, when a work in progress. So I think getting back to that love, and also for me it's about reading too. Like getting back to the joy. And for me it's a lot about reading poetry, like getting back to the joy of words being smashed together that don't belong together and the sparks that come from that. And like just getting back to language and and the glory that is right is, is is for me, very grounding. So speaking of that, what have been some books that you've been reading lately? Oh my gosh. Well, like you, I'm deep in research, so I've been, my new book is about, three. It's a generational as well, but it's three periods in San Francisco history and three earthquakes, and then three also seismic kind of love affairs that go along with them. So it's the 1906 earthquake and that is. That is sort of this epistolary relationship between two women. And then there's the, in 1989 earthquake, which happens during the AIDS epidemic. It's kind of a love story between a straight girl and a gay guy. And then I say love story, but it's just love story, not necessarily romantic. And then, and then the contemporary story, which is a, a familial love story between a girl and her mother, two mothers, one dead, one. Mother figures, so it's Oh, oh. Anyway, so, so I've been doing a ton of research on that, on the AIDS epidemic, on, on 1906 San Francisco. But just for, for reading, I, I started, the loneliness of Sonya and Sonny by Karen Desai, which is, I'm loving so far. I recently, I, oh, I've been reading Frank's The Sonnets by Diane Seuss. Incredible poetry book. Which actually reminds me how much I love language. It's really incredible. I, one of my favorite books I've read is Martyr Recently by ca Bar. And it kind of like, don't you feel like I, I, I love reading books that were the first fiction books by poets because the language is so amazing. Like that book a little bit made me wanna throw my own computer out the window because the language was so beautiful. I was captivated by the first scene. I was like, oh my gosh. I know. It's like so great. I recently reread, at the bottom of the river. Have you ever read that? The Jamaica Kincaid. Oh, Well now I need to add it to my list. You do you, oh, you will love it. You will absolutely love it. When I taught poetry, I would teach, second story in that because it, and just say to, you know, dig a hole in your life and fill it.'cause that's what she does with the language of your youth. And. my God, this, this story is incredible. And as a poet, you're gonna like adore it. It's amazing. So that's something I go back to all the time when I feel like I'm stuck with my language. I'm stuck in any way. It's very helpful. what else did I like recently? The best Ya book I've read in a long time was how, how it feel. What's it called? Helena Fox's, how It Feels To Float. Have you read that? Oh no, I have not. I know if you like ya, but It is, it is I love ya. Okay, I'm glad. It's an incredible book. Again, the language is stunning. The interiority is amazing. She's a very good writer and it's, it's interesting 'cause it's about mental challenges, but it's kind of really never named and you're just really inside this character. It's very beautiful. I really loved it. I love, I'm, I have all of the books that we're talking about that I'm gonna add to the show notes and the description so everybody else's TBR can get as blown up as mine. So, That makes me happy. yes. So my last question for you today is, what advice would you offer listeners who wanna make a positive impact in their community? That's interesting. So often I'm asked about like, advice for writers and stuff like that. Not so much and I think, well, again, I think at the bare minimum, everybody needs to vote. Everybody needs to show up and speak out if there's, rallies and things like that. I feel like, on a more. Sort of spiritual level though, it's more like what we were talking about before. I think personally it's very important these days to turn away from your screens and to go out and to like buy books that liberation is lit and to go, you know, buy books at your local bookstores. Have coffee in your local coffee shop and you know, get to know your neighbors. Be kind to your neighbors. Be aware of your neighbors, especially if they're immigrants in this time. Like I just think. your shafts of light like the cat and like write your stories if you're an artist. And, you know, if you're, make your painting, do things for yourself that bring you joy. And, you know, it's funny, when I was, this is actually a advice I do give writers because it was given to me, by Edmund White, I was studying with him. In grad school and he said, always remember to curb towards joy. And I loved that. And I, and he kind of meant it as, okay, you're alone in your room. You're like, oh my God, I'm so lonely. My life is passing me by. I am typing, but like every, all my friends are at the beach and here I am alone writing. And so you contend to get gloomy and. He was like, so just remember that sometimes writing's very lonely and gloomy and so you might wanna curb towards joy. But I think about it all the times in terms of life and almost as a radical act, just especially in times like this curb towards joy. Like you were saying. Lift that blanket and peek out at the sun. You know, Yes. Oh, I love that curve towards joy and it, and it kind of reminds me of like the arc of justice, the, the. Yeah. Bends towards justice. I can't remember the, know. yes, Yeah, yes. yeah. I love that. And I, I think that, I still believe that, and I think that we are, the arc of just is still bending towards justice. We're just in a loop right now. So once hopefully, that's what I hope anyway. We just need more of us pulling down to bend it towards justice right now because Exactly, a lot Trying to pull it the other way. exactly. Just pull that damn thing. Yes, yes. Well, thank you so much again for this conversation. Where can people find you and keep up with your word? Well, thank you so much. It's been a real joy and pleasure talking to you., You can find me, my book's in bookstores, hopefully. I'm on most everything. I'm, I'm still sort of, I skulk on Twitter on X because, just 'cause I. I a bad habit of that and I have to see how bad things are, but I'm mostly on Instagram, occasionally on Facebook, but mostly on Instagram these days, I would think. But I, you know, I'm, I'm not that great at social media, but I do post book stuff there and you can DM me if you wanna say hi. Yes, and I will link that in the show notes as well. And thank you again, Jandy. This was such a great conversation. And you're basically a pro at the podcast recording game. Oh my God, my first. Well, Yes. so kind on. My very first one. Yes. And and write a verse novel. That's so amazing. And even if you, thank you. I love the idea of it. That's a killer idea. I am so excited. I just need to get words down. yeah. Lock yourself in the room. Yes. Well thank you again and thank you listeners for being part of the Liberationist Lit Podcast. If you have stories you wanna share, wanna suggest any topics or just wanna connect, you can find us on Instagram, Facebook and TikTok at Liberationist Lit, or visit our website, liberationist lit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review. And remember, your voice matters and through the lens of stories, you're gonna make a difference in the world. Until next time. Woohoo. I love that. That was so good. Okay, bye.