Defining Ourselves as Human Beings (with D.A. Murray)

In this episode, we welcome author D.A. Murray to discuss her dystopian novel Dominion: Ascension and how storytelling can explore social change. Murray shares her background as a longtime writer and a Black woman in corporate America and tech, explaining that the book was shaped by observations of social, political, and economic power dynamics, shifting gender roles, coercion, and technology’s influence on humanity. 

D.A. Murray’s book

Dominion: Ascension

Other Books Mentioned

Vicious by VE Schawb

The Silent Patient by Alex Michaelides

Sociopath: A Memoir by Patric Gagne

Where to Find D. A.

damurrayoffical.com

Facebook

Instagram

Tiktok

Timestamps

00:00 Welcome and Introductions

00:39 Chicago Weather Banter

01:14 Why Write Dystopia

04:46 Themes Behind Dominion

07:53 Bias and IQ Testing

09:17 Coercion and Power

13:05 Staying Grounded Today

14:51 What She Reads Now

16:23 Book Two Teaser

17:31 Advice for Impact

20:01 Where to Follow

20:44 Podcast Wrap Up

Thank you for being part of the Liberation is Lit podcast! If you have stories to share, want to suggest topics, or just want to connect, find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok @liberationislit or visit our website at liberationislit.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please consider leaving a review! Remember, your voice matters, and together, through the lens of stories, we're making a difference in the world.

Transcript

0:09

Hey y'all. Welcome to the Liberation is Lit Podcast, where the power storytelling meets the force of social change. I'm your host, Tayler Simon, and in this podcast we believe in the profound impact of stories, and I am so excited to be joined today with author DA Murray, and we're gonna talk about her book Dominion Ascension, and all the dystopian writing things. Hi, how are you doing today? I am doing great. We've got got sunshine. We've got some tolerable temperatures here in Chicago, so I am not complaining. Amazing. Same. But I was just telling my sister, I was looking at the forecast for this weekend, and on Sunday it's gonna be like 60, but on Saturday it's gonna be like 80. And I'm like, all right, I just I, to pick a season please. yeah, the ricocheting back and forth. It's so schizophrenic. Right? Yes. to start us off today, can you tell us a little bit about yourself as an author and why you decided to write dystopia novels? Well, I will say I have been a writer, God, as long as I can remember. I started probably in elementary school, you know, just writing poetry, writing short stories. I've been doing that most of my life and I've always been fascinated by dystopian fiction and I think a lot of it has to do with, you know, just imagining what would the world be like if, you know, that was just always such an interesting area for me to dig into and play around with a little bit. But I think what really got me into writing this particular novel dominion, Ascension, I just really started thinking about. Some of the experiences I'd had over, you know, the last 20 some odd years of working being a, you know, a black woman in corporate America working in tech seeing just various things happening around me, you know, socially, politically, economically, and I just had something to say, you know, and I think that that was really, really was the the catalyst for me starting to write and wasn't exactly sure when I first started writing what I really wanted to lean in on. But I knew I wanted to tell a story about power dynamics. I wanted to tell a story about how technology is influencing our humanity. I definitely wanted to flex in on women and how women our roles and our power positions have been changing over the past several decades. And I also wanted to talk about what does it really mean to, what does con coercion look like, right? What does it mean? What does it look like? So there were just a lot of, you know, just very meaty subjects I wanted to tackle, and I thought the best way to do that was to tackle it within the context of a fiction novel. So that's why I, I really wanted to lean in on a speculative novel as opposed to, you know, doing something nonfiction or doing something very politicized. This was really much more about let's get people thinking about some of these very meaty topics and talking about it in a non confrontation, you know, kind of unthreatening sort of way, or non-threatening sort of way. So that was really kind of all the, you know, the ingredients that, you know, went into the brew, so to speak. And that's why I love fiction to talk about difficult topics because it's such a disarming way to have these conversations without people getting defensive because you could get. You can talk about it in a way that isn't going to de dehumanize a real person and explore, and that's why I love speculative fiction written by black authors because it's the, the people who are most affected by these issues, they're the ones who know it intimately to imagine a better future, what it looks like without. So let's talk about your book Dominion Ascension. What like inspired you to really explore gender roles and gender topics and like you said, the role of technology within this novel and what message did you readers would get from reading the book? Sure. Well, I think one of the thing is I want it to be very, very mindful and very targeted about an area. You know, I could, I could have focused on race, I could have focused on climate change. I could have focused, I mean, there's just so many things I could have focused on, but I wanted to focus on women because in, in our role in society, because it has, there's been so majorly, there's been so many major seismic shifts with women with respect to the area of control. Control of our careers, our families, our bodies. There is something fundamentally, challenging around how do you talk about women today? And it's a very, very different look than it was even 20 years ago. And so for me it was, I wanted, I really wanted to talk about it in a, in a very intimate sort of way. And so that was it. I mean, I am a woman. I wanted to talk about what that experience looks like and feels like, and it was important to me to talk about it. You know, in relationship to men, because corporate America is still heavily dominated by men. The experiences that we have today are, you know, many times influenced, if not managed or led by men. So I wanted to be able to take the power dynamics and completely change them around. And really look at what happens when the people who have the power are able to influence what happens in society. And so not a particularly unique component from that standpoint, but unique from the standpoint of the storytelling itself. You know, and really I wanted to take a very personal perspective, which is one of the reasons I wrote it in first person point of view. I wanted the reader to get inside the head of the protagonist, Danny Matthews, and I wanted them to understand. Who she was and how she is seeing the world. And that's a very important part because as you read through the story, you'll understand that her perception of the world really does change drastically as she goes through various experiences. And so it was really about just kind of peeling back a really, really, you know, stinky onion and getting to the core of what what does it mean to be human? Quite honestly, so I, I really enjoyed writing the book. I, I really liked how and I'm not very far into the book listeners. We talked about this earlier before we started recording. I'm about on chapter six, but one of the things that really fascinated me was the use of this IQ testing, Mm-hmm. Software that was says, choosing people's destinies for them. I really like this commentary on how. Yes, it's, it's technology and we kind of fall prey to believing that, oh, technology is inherently bias free. But we have to take into account that these artificial intelligences, these softwares, these tests are created by humans. So we inherently program that bias into it. So I wanted to know and we kind of touched on this, but how does kind of the social justice climate or just the climate in general, in how did it influence specifically for dominion? And I know you talked about kind of like the, the control that we are seeing on women's lives from jobs to their, our bodies. How else did this influence you? Did it make writing an escape for you or did it make it more difficult? Well, I mean, I think a little bit of both. I mean, you know, definitely an escape from the standpoint that it allowed me to take myself out of, you know, everything that is happening or was happening around me at the time. And just really get into the, the feeling of what this society could really be like. I think one of the things that's so interesting that I was thinking about as I was writing is, you know, coercion rarely announces itself. Rarely it arrives, framed in, you know, like concern, tradition, economics, you know, the protection. All of these things that sound really good when it's all about what's best for the people, you know? But the reality is that it, that is often where things start to chip away. Whether it is our rights, our freedoms start to cloud our judgment or take away our perspective even, and that is really what happens. That's how Dominion really evolved. It was came about because there were some really difficult decisions that needed be to be made at a very challenging time, and there was no time to think about how people were gonna feel about something. The people who could, you know, grab the, you know, grab the charge and move forward. Those are the people who took it and it just happened to be women for various reasons. And so the question becomes, you know, how much of, of how we choose to lead has to do with being male versus female versus, you know, how, you know, how do we think about taking power or gaining power, and what are we willing to do to retain it? And so there's all these really fundamental issues around structure and how technology is enabling a very uneven, unfair inequitable structure. And you could argue, well, I mean, there's a lot of things about our society or have always been inequitable about our society, but there's something about this idea of what does it mean to be human? And it's the human factor, the thing that really helps us, you know, kind of make things equal. And how do we, you know, how does that translate into how we are, as you know, in society, as human beings? And so, you know, I really just took this dystopian, you know, story, but I, I really want it to be about defining humanity and what it looks like and how it's evolving. Because I think it tells a very specific, it's a very specifically it's a socially conscious story within the context of a lot of things that are, you know, definitely impacting us today. I definitely agree and I think it's really, important to have that message of yes, this is what could happen if we continue on the path that we're going. And this book is set that far in the future. It's just 2030. So, thinking about just how things can happen so fast, especially within the context of how technology is evolving in our current society. I know with the 24 hour news cycle and social media, like everything is inundating us all at once. How do you stay grounded in this work and living in it, but also writing about it? Well, I think one of the things is, is I'm incredibly selective about what I actually read and watch. You know, and I'm also. Consistently, I question everything that I read and watch, quite honestly. I think you have to these days in particular. And so I think with that being said, I think I stay grounded and just focusing on the things that are most important, which is how do I define myself as a human being and how do I show up with other people, you know, with my family, my friend, my coworkers how am I defining how I want to lead impact, you know, while I'm here? And so that was another thing that I just thought was so important, is I have something to say and I think it's something that a lot of people wanna hear. And so that's, I think that's what keeps me grounded is that I'm, I'm really am putting a message out there that I think is of value and interest to folks who really want to further explore this topic. So I'm happy about that. Hmm. And I feel like it's, it's very much a dialogue and we're losing a lot of that dialogue. It's, we, like you say, you have something to say. People wanna listen, but I feel like. We're in this society of we're just passively consuming everything and not questioning everything. So that is definitely an important message in this work. So speaking of your discernment about what you are reading and engaging with, what have you been reading lately? Well, I'm knee deep in writing another book it actually, dominion is a trilogy. So, been knee deep in that. And so I am writing, I actually keep it by me at all times, and this is gonna sound a little weird. I'm, I'm reading Vicious by V Schwab just because I, you know, I enjoy a great thriller, the silent patient. I love stuff like this. This is a lot of fun. And then I also. Started reading, there's this other book and you're probably gonna laugh and be like, what's going sociopath, a memoir. So I usually read about three to four books at a time, just depending on, you know, what I'm in the mood for. But it's very important I think, as a writer to just, you know, read so many different types of books and, and, and just take it all in. So that's kind of what I'm writing, reading these days. Yes, and I've heard, I've heard really good things about sociopath actually. Haven't read it yet, but it has been on my list and I get, I, I feel like with that book in particular it's important to study because. We keep throwing around all these like therapist terms and really don't understand, and sociopath is one of those like derogatory ones. So I was really fascinated to hear about her experience specifically with that diagnosis. So I'm excited to give that one myself. So do you have any upcoming projects that you wanna share with listeners? Well, I mean, as I noted, I'm writing book number two, so that sequel to dominion, Ascension, and you know, I can't tell you how many times everybody asks me when is it coming out and what is it? I, I said, look, I'll just tell you the title. The title of the book is Dominion Anarchy, and I think that should tell you a lot about the nature of, of society as it moves on, because it does, the first book does end with a cliffhanger, so I am working very fast. Yes, and you definitely see the, the seeds of the anarchy being planted. Well, I see it even where I am right now. So I'm excited to see kind of, because we think oh, the roles are completely swapped in now we're in utopian. Everything is perfect now. And it's just like, oh, nope, everything is not as perfect 'cause it may seem on paper, so I'm excited for that second book as well as finishing the first one. my last question for you today is, what advice would you offer listeners who wanna make a positive impact in their community? They, you know, take the time to really pay attention to. What's happening around you and inside of you? I, you know, I think that being intentional about your words and your actions speaks volumes about how you can really show up. I think it's important to think for yourself. It's great that people have opinions and opinions, right? Opinions are great, you know, there's nothing wrong with it, but at the end of the day you're the person that has to make the choice of what to believe, what not to believe, what to value versus not what versus not what you want to value. And I think you have to really be in tuned with understanding what's important to you and find that story with you, everybody everybody has a story. Everybody does, and don't worry about. Oh, are people gonna like it? You know, I mean, there's gonna be people that love what you're saying. There's gonna be people that hate what you're saying. There's gonna be some people who don't care one way or the other. All of that stuff. And you just have to accept that that's how it is with anything, any, any art, you know of any kind. So I think you just have to know what you wanna say. Then find your people, which is one of the reasons I love, you know, this this platform. Because I think people who see this and, and, you know, folks who are interested in the book will pick it up and they love it. You know, then that's just, that's just, that's my person, right? And that's who I'm writing for. I'm writing for the folks who can really understand and appreciate, you know, the message that I'm putting out there. So. I love what you said at the beginning of paying attention to what's happening out here, but also paying attention to what's in here. I love that mix of out here. It's gonna influence what you feel in here, but also let it be a balance and not drown one way or another because the revolution starts with each one of us and each one of our individual stories, and how can we co-create a better future together? So I love that so much. Thank you so much for being on the podcast. This was a great conversation. Where can people find you and keep up Sure. your work for when that release day is dropped for book two? Absolutely. So you can go to my author site, which is da murray official.com, so D-A-M-U-R-R-A-Y official.com. And I also have DA Murray official on TikTok Facebook and Instagram, so you can check those out too. Where I focus very heavily on talking to folks and asking them what are they reading, why are they reading what they're reading, you know, that kind of thing. So, great social interaction. They are to find out, you know, about kind of how people are seen and viewing the world that we live in today. So it's a lot of fun. Yes, I'll make sure to link all of those links in the show notes and description and of course, where dominion and Ascension so you can get ready for book two and be ready. So thank you again for this great conversation and thank you listeners for being a part of the Liberation is Lit Podcast. If you have any stories you wanna share or just wanna. Suggest topics or connect. You can find us on Instagram. Facebook at TikTok at Liberation is lit. Visit our website, liberation is lit.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review. And remember, your voice matters and together through the lens of stories, we're gonna make a difference in the world. Until next time.