Feel Safe, Be Safe: Embedding Child Protective Strategies into Everyday Teaching

⚠️ Listener warning: Anatomical Language - Please be advised that this episode contains discussions regarding child protective behaviours and body safety strategies. As part of this important conversation, our guest uses correct anatomical names for body parts. Providing children with the correct language for their bodies is a key safety strategy in early childhood education. However, we suggest pre-listening if you are in a shared space or planning to use this episode as a professional development tool with your team to ensure you are prepared for the context of the discussion.

Join us as we welcome Selma Jo Wastell, an inspirational leader with over 30 years experience in early learning and child advocacy. In this episode, Selma dives into the importance of embedding child protective strategies, sharing how educators can build a child’s autonomy and self-awareness without creating fear. As an expert in trauma-informed care and inclusion, Selma explores practical ways to integrate these safety strategies into the everyday curriculum, ensuring children’s voices remain at the heart of planning and policy.

This conversation moves beyond theory to offer empowering, practical takeaways for every early childhood professional. Selma highlights that protective behaviour programs don't require outside "experts"—they are tools every educator can implement to foster a trauma-aware environment. Selma reminds us that "knowledge does not corrupt children, it empowers them." Tune in to discover how to turn child protection into a shared, proactive commitment with your families and community.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Welcome to Learn Play Thrive the podcast, the ultimate early learning podcast for educators and leaders in the sector. Let's learn, play, and thrive together.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

The Learn Play Thrive podcast was recorded on the land of the Dark and John people. We pay our respect to the traditional custodians, past, present, and emerging. Hands out, hands down, dark and family.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

We are absolutely thrilled to welcome our guest today, who is an inspirational leader in the early learning and child advocacy sector. For over 30 years, Selma Joe Watson has dedicated her career to children and families, bringing her expertise to early learning and out-of-home care services, both here in Australia and overseas. Selma is currently a higher education lecturer, a TAFE teacher, and a sought-after professional development presenter. But her job title not only tells a part of the story, Selma relentlessly advocates for young children and their families and is influential across a variety of platforms and contexts to support this goal. Her areas of deep expertise are incredibly relevant to our discussion today, including child protection, trauma-informed care and practice, and the inclusion of children's voices in all areas of planning and policy that affect them. Selma, a warm welcome to Learn Play Five the podcast. Thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. Today, when we're talking about child protection and safety, we know that young children are most at risk from people they know. So, how can early childhood educators familiarize children with age-appropriate protective behaviour strategies to build autonomy and self-awareness without creating the fear?

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Well, this is something that has been much in the news lately, and so I feel like this podcast is really timely. I'm really happy to be talking about this topic because child safety is so much at the foreground of everything that we're thinking about at the moment. So, just for a bit of a definition, what we call protective behaviours is really a suite of strategies that looks at body autonomy, body safety. It promotes agency amongst children and it promotes communication and self-esteem. So often when we think about protective behaviours, we think about naming body parts and that sort of thing. And it is that, and it is about keeping children safe and building their resilience. But it's really also got something to offer for all children. So it promotes their confidence, it promotes their trust in their own bodies, and it actually just promotes general life skills and social skills. So it's a great program for everybody to implement with children. And it furnishes children with knowledge, and we know that knowledge is empowering for children, it never corrupts children. And I do just need to mention that throughout this podcast we will be mentioning issues related to child sexual abuse, and I will be using correct anatomical terms for children's bodies because that is part of what child protection is. I also want to just outline right at the beginning that keeping children safe is never the child's responsibility. So it's always the responsibility of the adults, but we know that educated and alert children and educated and alert adults keeps communities and children safe. So we also know that predators choose children who are silent, they choose children who are not empowered, they choose children who don't feel like they have a strong voice. So child protection is really about empowering children to have control over their own bodies, to have knowledge about their own bodies, and to feel comfortable talking about things in most situations. The other thing we know about young children and keeping them safe is they're actually at the most at risk of abuse between the ages of five and eight. So that's the age at which we work with children. We come into contact children, and so safety has to be at the foreground of everything that we do with children and including their parents as well, because empowered parents leads to empowered children, knowledgeable parents leads to the situation where children will be believed when they do disclose or when disturbing kind of behaviours are starting to happen in the environment. So sometimes people are really reluctant to go into this territory because they don't feel confident or they don't have the knowledge, but we are actually obliged to implement child protection strategies with children under the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child because it states quite clearly in there that children have the right to feel safe and that adults and children alike need to be made aware of their rights. So that's part of what protective behaviours is, is really just making children aware of their rights. And then we need to let the adults in the community know that children do have rights and they have a right to feel safe, and they have a right to speak up when they don't feel safe and when they're feeling uncomfortable about the things that are happening with their bodies. So we see child protection very much as not just the educators' issue, not just as the service responsibility, but as a shared responsibility that we have with parents. So parents need to know things like what grooming looks like, what grooming behaviors look like, educators need to be aware of what grooming behaviors look like because perpetrators don't just groom children, they groom adults as well in order to have access to those children. So around child safety, much in the news at the moment has been around the possibility of CCTV footage. There's been a lot of talk about ratios keeping children safe, but child safety goes well beyond that. It goes around, it's about empowering children, empowering the adults that work with children and not relying on things that cameras like cameras, because we know that where that has been trialed overseas, if perpetrators are really determined, they just work ways to get around the cameras. So for me, I think it creates a false sense of security for parents.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Um I think in my experience with young children uh disclosing situations, it's very much a small comment that a child has made uh that potentially has enacted a curiosity towards or what do you mean by that? And potentially that's not going to be caught on camera having that conversation of oh tell me more about what happened.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

I think that's right. So when children disclose that abuse might be happening, they usually choose someone that they feel really comfortable with, and um, someone who is relaxed and someone who has demonstrated that they're comfortable talking about those kinds of things. So CCT cameras are not going to capture any of that. I think it just makes staff feel that they're not trusted and that they have to be on their best behaviour, that they're not going to be relaxed around children, and not being relaxed around children is really not going to foster that sense of comfort that we really want children and staff. We want staff to feel trusted and heard and capable of dealing with those kinds of situations. So because you mentioned it, I will just talk a little bit about disclosure. So if children do disclose to somebody that something is going on that they're not comfortable with, the most important thing for that adult is to trust and believe that child and to thank that child for telling you. When children are really young, they often disclose without even realizing that they're disclosing. But as children get older, there's often the grooming has put in place feelings of doubt and feelings of shame. And so it's always important to acknowledge that this has maybe been difficult for that child and to thank them for telling you, tell them that they've done the right thing, and to reassure them that you not that you can fix it because you can never promise that because often we can't, but just to reassure them that they have actually done the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

What are the most effective practical ways for ECEC services to integrate a protective behaviours program into their everyday curriculum?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

So when we started this conversation, you talked about age appropriate. So one of the most important things for educators is to make sure that what you're doing with the children is age appropriate. So if you work with the babies or the toddlers or the preschoolers, your approach is going to be tiered towards responding to children in that sort of a way. I also just need to reiterate that if you are going to do protective behaviours, it's really important to involve the parents. So we let parents know that you run a protective behaviours program, this is what it's going to look like, and this is why we do it. And we do that not just through newsletters because not all parents read newsletters, but maybe through signs in your service, through casual conversations with parents, with information nights, you know, across a wide variety of platforms. And then an effective behaviors program is not just one day a week, it's not just a week of you know focus, it's something that should happen throughout our curriculums. And I know everybody says that in terms of integration, in terms of you know, cultural inclusion and all those things. But it really is something that educators are trained to do, educators are capable of doing, and it is the most effective when it happens in the context of a normal day throughout children's play, throughout children's social interactions. So there's six basic steps in early childhood that constitute protective behaviours, and the first one is naming body parts correctly. So, for example, we'll call a vulva a vulva and we'll call a penis a penis, and we just do it not as a lesson or as a teaching, but just in normal conversations. So we might say something like, give your penis a little shake so you don't drip we on the toilet, or if you're changing a baby's nappy, you might say, I'm just going to wipe from your vulva to your bottom, so you're explaining to them what you are doing. So using those words empowers children to understand their body. And in early childhood, you know, we really trust children to learn a lot of details. So we're happy to tell them about Tyrannosaurus Rex and the Triassic period and all this kind of detail that is not relevant really in their lives at all. But when it comes to naming their body parts correctly, we're much more circumspect about that. So we just need to trust that that's the right thing to do. And that's why I said at the outset that we need to bring parents on this journey with us so they understand why we're doing it and how we're doing it. I heard a thing on the radio the other day about some little girl had said that someone had touched her golden flower, and really every family has pet names, but that's not helpful in terms of empowering children and having a shared vocabulary so that they can share that information. So that's the first step to name the body parts correctly. And then after that, we go on to identifying feelings. So this is part of what we do normally as our social and emotional program in early learning services, but it's really about the nuance of feelings. So we we often do, you know, if you're happy and you know it, clap your hands, and if you're sad and you know it, have a cry, but we don't go into detail much beyond that. So we need to talk about feeling frustrated, feeling embarrassed, feeling excited and joyful, all the nuances of emotion, so that when children get that feeling in their body that there's something going on, um, they've got a label for it. Because if your body is experiencing strong emotions, there's a very physical reaction to that. And if you give that a label and a name, it's not scary and you can understand it, and then you can talk about it. So under understanding feelings, you know, the early years learning framework tells us that children need to develop confident identities, and so that's part of part of doing that. And then the third part that we tell children is to trust what your body is telling you. So when your heart is racing, when you've got butterflies in your tummy, you know, you can talk about all those physical reactions that children have to fear and joy and excitement, to actually trust that and to be able to label that and to understand that. And then the next part of it is that the discussion around you own your own body. So we have lots of really lovely resources that help children understand that. We have some songs. I know there's one that the teeny tiny Stevie's put about out about being the boss of your own body. There's a lot of books. Um, I actually brought some along with me today, but I know this is talking, not television, but you know, the boss of your own body or my body belongs to me. These kind of books, just make sure when you're choosing the books that you have a little look through them and you make sure that all genders are represented, that all races and cultures are represented, that they're kind of inclusive across the board. Um, and also that the books are talking quite explicitly in detail. They're not skirting around the issues because there are quite a few resources out there and they don't all deal as well with this as as other people.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

And one little hint for services is to share what book you're going to be reading before you're reading it with the families so that they're aware of the context of what the children are hearing about during the day. So if they want to have a look and see what it's talked about and then speak about it further with their family, they can.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Yeah, that's a great idea. And it also gives you that platform to talk about your protective behaviors program and what's been happening. Another thing that we sometimes do around own your own body is around role play. So if people touch you in a way that you don't like, how can you respond to that? What can you say? So we know that sometimes when children feel really uncomfortable, they know they feel uncomfortable but they don't know what to do about it because often children have been taught to be polite to adults or they feel intimidated by adults. Um, and obviously being polite to adults is really important, but it's also really important that children are able to feel empowered to say, I don't like it when you touch me like that. And the way that we get them to feel comfortable with that is to role-play it. So to say, you know, to give children scenarios of um what are the kinds of things that make you feel uncomfortable? And maybe, oh, you know, when Uncle Jack comes to visit, he kisses me. Okay, well, what could we say when that happens? And maybe you can't, you know, you brainstorm solutions like um I prefer to shake hands or that sort of thing. So children have the skills and they have the words to deal with situations that make them feel uncomfortable. And again, I keep coming back to this, but that's why it's also it's important that parents know that you're doing that because it will be vocabulary that they're not accustomed to hearing from their children. And you know, I did hear of a story about one little girl who was being bathed and she told her dad, Oh, you can't touch me there because that's private. Um, and her dad was sort of a little bit taken aback. But if he knows where that's coming from, yeah, then goes, Yes, of course, you know, you wash that part yourself or whatever the wherever the conversation.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

They start role-playing and acting out the that vocabulary at home. That's such a good sign because they're practicing their boundaries. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

And I guess it's you know, the way that you can frame it with parents too is that um it's a great reflection on the parents because the children feel 100% comfortable and safe talking about that. And then the last one in the six main steps in protective behaviours is to identify adults that the children can tell. So once you've talked about feeling safe and not feeling safe and safe places, you can say if you really didn't feel safe, who are the adults that you can tell? And the way they do it in primary school is always the drawing around the hand thing, labelling the adults. We can do that in an early learning situation as well, and just write the labels on or get children to draw the pictures of who the adults are. Obviously, with the really young children, you can't do that, but you can role model saying, you know, if you don't feel safe, we can tell mummy or whatever. The only advice I would give to educators in that situation is to make sure that all the people on the hand are not in the family, so that there's some people that children have identified that they feel safe with who are outside of the family because we know that most abuse takes place with someone that the family knows and trusts. So they have to have that diversity of people that they would tell. The other thing that I want to mention in this context is pornography, because we know that children are actually exposed to pornography in this country between the ages of 8 and 13. So this is obviously very disturbing for children sometimes, and if they don't have the vocabulary to talk about it, or they get the idea that things to do with nude bodies and sex are shameful, they're going to internalize that experience and it can really affect their development, it can be really traumatic for them. And as much as we don't want to think about our children being exposed to pornography, we live in a highly sexualized society. They're not necessarily looking for it themselves, but being on the internet just exposes children to it. And plus, just music videos are really sexual and provocative, and children need to have the language to understand that and to be able to talk about it and to know that the adults around them are actually capable of talking about that.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

What resources are available to support educators about protective behaviours and what's the best way to communicate this information to the families?

SPEAKER_01 20:00

The best way to empower yourself as an educator is to really keep up to date with the current qualifications. So all early learning educators have got the identify and respond to risk of harm, but to just make sure that you have the most current qualification and to also do the annual update that is required from us. From next year, it's going to be mandatory annual updates that are going to be run by an outside organization. We don't have all the detail about that yet, but hopefully that will be another step towards keeping everybody informed and confident about what needs to be done. What service leaders can do is make sure that they have really clear policies and procedures around notification, disclosure, and that leaders are creating a culture where staff feel like they're trusted, that their voice is heard, that they have concerns they will be believed. All those things make a huge difference in creating a child-safe environment. There are wonderful organisations out there with really good information, organisations such as Brave Hearts that put out a guide for carers and for parents. It's all online and it's free, and they're particularly good at looking at children and families that might be on the gender diverse spectrum and giving tools for those kind of families, for those families to deal with those issues. Early Childhood Australia, which is a non-for-profit organization, have been putting out a lot of information around children's safety and safeguarding children, and they're another great place to go just for up-to-date information, particularly in the current climate that we're in, where we're seeing so much negative press in the news, and it's hard to know you know where the facts really are. So that's a really good organization. We have child safe standards that were a reaction to the Royal Commission into child abuse, and there's 10 recommendations there. So that's a really good kind of baseline for services, and they also have fabulous resources around policies and procedures, templates, recommendations about recruitment, all those kinds of structural things that are really important for services. I have already mentioned obviously that we have the books, there's lots of songs that you can sing. Sorry, singing on air, but anyway, you know, just those kinds of those, yeah, those kinds of things, making it part of your daily or weekly practice rather than just getting an expert in to come and you know do their child protection program and then disappear again for another week. So, yeah, keeping families informed, passing those kinds of websites and resources on to families if they're interested, and just being really secure as a service that we believe in this, this is why we believe in this, this is why we implement the program, and then educators having those policies and procedures there to back them up. If parents come home, um, you know, if parents come to you and say things like, Oh, my child said the word penis and I know they didn't get it from me, um, which is what I've had a parent say to me before, and then you say, Yes, well, they heard it from me, and this is why, and this is part of our protective child, you know, our child protection program.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

It's such an important aspect of ensuring that we use the correct labels because it can uh I guess uh put the child in a position where they are trying to disclose something and then it's just brushed off because the language isn't there for them to use correctly.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

That's right, yes. And um one of the things that I always say about using the correct labels is Actually, I will give this example. So sometimes in early learning services, you know, there's a lot of pregnant parents around because that's the time of life when families come to us, and children will sometimes say, How does the baby get out? And it's really a very straightforward question, almost as straightforward as what's for lunch. That's that's how much importance it has to the child. And if we can just say the mum has a passage between her legs called a vagina and she pushes the baby out, that's all they asked you. It's not anxiety producing. It gives the child the facts that they asked for, but it also gives the child standing next to you the information that you're an adult who's comfortable talking about this. So you might be the adult that I choose to tell you what's going on at home when I haven't had the words to do it. So fobbing children off when they ask those intimate kind of questions isn't something that's humorous. It isn't a funny anecdote to tell in the staff room. It's actually doing the children a great disservice. So they asked you a straight question, you give them a straight answer, and then whenever I've been in that position, I always tell the parent that day, your child asked me this question, this is the answer that I gave them. And I've never ever had a parent say, Oh, you shouldn't have done that. You know, they're usually actually quite grateful that you've had that conversation.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

They probably are. They're like, Oh, you nailed that, and I'm glad that that landed on you this time. Yeah. At the end of the podcast, we have three takeaway messages: one theory-based, one practical, and one inspiring. What would be your theory-based takeaway for us today?

SPEAKER_01 25:22

I think one of the most important things to realise that child abuse is not confined to one group of people. So child abuse happens in rich families, in educated families, in disadvantaged families. It really happens across the spectrum. So we know that one-third of adult Australians will report that they were abused somehow as children. So it's happening in all our communities, and abusers choose children who keep secrets. So we just need to be aware that statistically it is happening to the families that you work with, and it is happening with the children who surround you every day.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

You brought up a really important part there about children keeping secrets. I think it's it's something that we need to highlight as educators to share that keeping secrets is not okay for young children, even if you think, oh, you know, don't tell you know the the other child that we got this out and you got to play with this today. No, we don't do secrets for young children. It's so important that we try to keep that language away. We're not trying to keep things from other people. We need to be open and be able to talk about things, and that word secret is really important not to use with the young children.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

I'm glad you mentioned that because one of the approaches, particularly with older children, is they will say, I'm going to tell you a secret and you're not allowed to tell anybody. And the correct response to that is that there are good and bad secrets, and if this secret means you're not safe, I will have to tell somebody. Because that is often a pre-cursor to disclosure of abuse. And children who have been abused have been let down by adults typically over and over again. And so we don't need to be the next adult in that line of letting down by saying, Yes, I'm going to keep your secret, and then no, I'm not. And often the secret is obviously, you know, that we're getting a puppy for Christmas, and that's fine. But just to be aware of those words, I'm going to tell you a secret, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Try not to play around with them whilst you're educating children in a day-to-day basis. And what would be your practical takeaway?

SPEAKER_01 27:28

I guess that all educators have the skills to implement a protective behaviours program or a body awareness program, um, and that you don't need to get in the experts, and there are wonderful resources out there to help you to do that. So to just trust yourself, make a start, get some allies around you who are going to support you in that, and just get on and do it.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

I think books are a beautiful practical strategy if you are a bit nervous about bringing this to light within your daily practice. Find the books that are reputable and use them and share with the families. And inspiring, inspire us.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

I guess to end up with to just reiterate that knowledge does not corrupt children, it empowers children. Um, and if you're not confident to just gather like-minded educators around you, and what I sometimes say to people is just fake it till you make it. So if you're not confident, for example, talking using the correct anatomical terms, um, just do it. And children don't question it. It's like a lot of people are not confident singing, but I've never had a child say to me, gee, you sing really badly. You know, you just you just get on and do it and fake it till you make it, and that and that gives you confidence. And I guess the other thing that I'd really like to say is to look after yourself. This job that we do is so important, but you can't do it if your bucket is empty. So you just need to find the things that bring you joy and that bring you renewal, and it doesn't matter how small they are to just keep filling your bucket because you can't just keep emptying it with everybody else and not looking after yourself.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

I think that's a that's a really good takeaway to have to look after yourself, most importantly. And if you are going through uh a scenario like this with a child, remember that you're their safe space and predictability is really important for these children going through something like this, and you're doing your job in their life, being that predictable person and being that predictable space, everything outside of that that's out of your control, as long as you follow the procedures, is you're doing the best that you can.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

Absolutely, and the resources are out there to support us as well. So I always recommend to people Lifeline because I know that it's the most amazing organization. If you are feeling like your bucket is empty and you feel like you've overburdened your family and your friends with your anxieties or your concerns or whatever it is, there's just a neutral person at the other end of the line to listen to you and maybe refer you on if you need that help.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Side note before I thank you for coming on, I had um this is a little bit older, this is why I didn't bring it in earlier, so it might be taken out. But my son, he's 12, he's in your six, and um he came the other day, home the other day, and he said, Oh, um, today at school we learn about consent. I said, Oh, okay, tell me more, what did that look like? And he said, Oh, they showed us some videos of somebody taking something of somebody and not asking to take it from them. And then there was a video where a guy went and held a girl's hand and he didn't ask and she pulled away kind of thing. I was like, Oh, and what happened? He said, nothing. It just pulled away and I was like, oh, so what does that mean about consent? And he said, Oh, we have to ask to hold the hand. I was like, Oh, okay, yeah, that's really good. But it was it was kind of an example of what you brought up about beating around the bush and not being explicit because I'm not sure the message really hit home. It was sort of one of those moments where I had to go, okay, so consent actually means that you need to ask permission to hold someone's hand or to get close to someone or do something. And it's super simple, you go, Oh, hey, can I hold your hand? It's super easy. And the ramifications of that could be quite traumatic for the other person. For instance, you could get in really big trouble with someone like the police if you do something that you think you can do but you can't do. So it was one of those messages that I thought, oh, that's great that they've talked about it. But reiterating it at home within the family space was probably more important for me to get that message across to my son who to really make sure this is serious and important because it can lead to very big ramifications.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

And if you go back to that thing that I said earlier about the age that children are actually exposed to pornography, so those people conducting that program are thinking that they're keeping children safe, but actually by not being explicit. Yes. They they're, you know, children know about sex, they know about body parts, they know about that stuff by the time they're eight. So to then beat around the bush is really not helpful.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

I know, that's what I kind of thought. I was like, I think I might need to talk about these situations a bit more explicitly. But it was it was a good moment as a family to go, oh okay, that I don't think that really hit the mark with you. Let me definitely.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Well, that's why it's important to keep families on board and informed, isn't it? Yeah. What consent looks like in an early learning setting is really around saying, I'm going to change your nappy now. Is that okay? And if the child's not okay, then you can say, show me who you'd like to change your nappy. So to really make it something that the child has some power with, and then to, you know, take that through to the toddlers and the preschoolers in whatever it is. So even in the food situation, you know, I know that you find broccoli really difficult. So, how how about you eat this tiny little thing and you put it on your tongue, and if you still need to spit it out, that's fine. So, just not not forcing children to do things that they that they don't want to do, not forcing children to play with children they don't want to play with. Often we're guilty of going, oh, we're all friends here at preschool. It's not true, we're not all friends. No one's ever all friends in every situation, so we all need to be kind and respectful of each other, but we're not all friends, and we don't have to play with people that we don't want to play with. It's tricky.

SPEAKER_02 33:24

Yeah, it's tricky, yeah. Definitely a good age to put in those values though. We can do it when they're younger, it's not something that we have to wait until they're older to start embedding in an age-appropriate way. Well, thank you so much, Selma, for coming on. Really appreciate you coming and talking about this particular topic for us. It's very, as you said, in line with what's happening in the community. And I think the more information that's out there for educators, the better for them, and the more empowered they'll feel to support their community around them. So really appreciate your time and coming on and coming to have a chat with me. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Learn Play Thrive the podcast. We hope you found inspiration and valuable insights to fill your journey in early childhood education. Remember the key to fostering learning, promoting play, and empowering young minds lies within your dedication and creativity. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like, subscribe, rate, or review our podcast on your favourite platform. Your feedback helps us to continue to deliver content that resonates with you. And don't forget to visit us at our website at learnplaythrive.com.au for additional resources, blog posts, and professional development opportunities. Until next time, keep learning, keep playing, and keep thriving. We'll see you in the next episode of Learn Playthrive the podcast.