Championing Access to Quality ECEC

In this compelling episode of Learn Play Thrive, host Simone Brand joins forces with Georgie Dent, CEO of The Parenthood, to confront the systemic fractures currently defining the early childhood landscape. From 'childcare deserts' and soaring fees to the myth of informal care, this conversation strips away the political jargon to reveal the real-world impact on Australian families. Georgie explains why the current market-driven ECEC model is operating as failing social infrastructure, and she calls for a fundamental shift in how we value the early years.

The dialogue dives deep into the non-negotiable reality of the workforce crisis, highlighting that high-quality education is impossible without a fairly paid and supported workforce. With 20,000 educator vacancies nationwide, Simone and Georgie discuss how professional retention directly dictates the stability and safety net families rely on. This episode is an inspiring roadmap for a system redesign—one that prioritises evidence-based pedagogy and universal access, ensuring that the ECEC sector finally works for children, families and educators.

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www.linkedin.com/company/theparenthood

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

Welcome to Learn Play Thrive the podcast, the ultimate early learning podcast for educators and leaders in the sector. Let's learn, play, and thrive together.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

The Learn Play Thrive podcast was recorded on the lands with the Dark and Jung people. We pay our respects to the traditional custodians, past, present, and emerging. Hands up, hands down, we're on Dark and Jung land.

SPEAKER_02 0:24

Welcome listeners to Learn Play Thrive the podcast, where we dive deep into the heart of early childhood education and care and the inspirational educators, researchers, and advocates and the sector leaders who make it happen. I'm your host, Simone Brand. Today we're delighted to welcome Georgie Dent, CEO of The Parenthood, Australia's leading parent advocacy organization, representing over 80,000 parents, carers, and supporters. The Parenthood champions paid parental leave, access to quality early childhood education and care, and family-friendly workplaces. Georgie is also a best-selling author, former lawyer, and prominent advocate for children, families, gender equality, and mental health. She is a mum of three and lives in Sydney with her husband and co-partner in chaos. A warm welcome, Georgie. Hi, thank you so much for having me. I love that introduction at the end where the co-partner in chaos that definitely brings true to home in my family scenario as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

I think it's the case in most households, regardless of the ages and stages of who's in your household. There's chaos.

SPEAKER_02 1:24

There is, and we all work together to make it happen. In the context of championing universal access to quality early childhood education and care across Australia, how is the current pressure on the sector impacting available options for our families during this time?

SPEAKER_01 1:38

Yeah, so look, one of the things that we know at the Parenthood is that the challenges that you and your family are going to face when it comes to accessing early education and care are really going to vary depending on your postcode, but also your family's needs. So we know that there are parts of the country that are, you know, accurately described as being deserts where there are not enough places for the children in those communities. And there are lots of families who are in that boat. Then you've also got families in areas where there's oversupply. And actually, you know, we are seeing at the moment with one of the G8, the listed early education and care chain, is closing 40 of its services. And that is a reflection of oversupply where we've had too many services built in particular areas where there actually isn't the demand for that many services. And I think that what we've seen is 2025 was a really difficult year for families. I know it was a very difficult year for educators, for anyone that is invested in quality early childhood education care. Reading and hearing and learning of instances of abuse and misconduct and worse was devastating. And I think one of the impacts that it's had really clearly on families is that they have become more alert to the importance of digging into a particular service before you use it. And so looking at what is the ownership structure, how long have the educators been there, what how does a center feel, you know, all of those sorts of things. And I think what that has meant is we do have families that are making different choices about which particular kind of service they want. And I think that's partly what has led to services, some services closing, because there just is not the demand for that particular type of service. We've seen a huge increase, and this has been a sort of steady increase over many years, but the number of children that are participating in preschool is growing. And I think it is that is a reflection of the increased awareness and understanding of just how critically important quality preschool programs are for children.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Yeah, and according to the recent literature reviewed by the Australian Institute of Health and Wellbeing, the quality in early childhood education care is more significant than expected of the influence on the development outcomes than the amount of time and stability arrangements surrounding it. So they're looking at potentially the positive outcomes of children and the importance of quality and what that quality looks like within a service surrounding that family as a community. So we know that's something that we really need to drive home for families and support them through that process. And looking at these services and saying, okay, what does quality look like? And championing parents to, I guess, look into ways that they can find out what their services look like in the ways of their governance bodies and their outcomes for children as a whole. And I think that's where the SECWA and Department of Education have been able to guide and have the ability to have the quality standards there that are so open for families to have a look into. But then again, as you know, and I assume you know, and as I know, when you go into a service, there is that aspect of what is your gut telling you? Do you walk in there and what do what does the place sort of seem like? Are there educators that are responding to children? Do you feel a sense of welcoming and belonging when you step into the service? And what does that feel like for you? But then we come to the sticky point where the choice of being able to gain a placement in a service that you would desire more than another service that may be available for you.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Yeah, and look, that is what is quite tricky. So depending on where you live and who you are, your challenges are going to be either there's no services at all or there's a lot of services, but you can't get into the service you really like. One of the things, one story that we're hearing really consistently at the moment is from families in areas where beloved community early childhood education care services are being shut down, despite being institutions that are, you know, adored and they've had you know the same educators and teachers there for years and years. And that is happening. And so you've also got families that are desperately trying to hold on to these gems because they know that it is a gem and that what they've got is so valuable for them and their children to have that sort of stability. We also know that for lots of families it's so hard to get into those really good services. And then if you've got multiple children, it can be really difficult to get your children in on the same days in these particular services. And then again, you also we do have the affordability barrier is still very significant for a lot of families. So then you've got another question again of can I even afford this? And I guess one of the anomalies when it comes to early childhood education and care is in a lot of instances, people believe that if something is if if the cost is higher, the product is better. But what we actually know about early childhood education and care is it doesn't always work like that. And actually, just this week I was speaking to a grandmother actually who was saying, you know, her grandkids were enrolled in this centre, and she said, when you went and had a look at it from the outside, it didn't look great. It was pretty sort of daggy in a way. And she said, But the minute you walked in there, it was just head and shoulders above any other service. And I said, that is not an uncommon experience. And I think that for a lot of families, we've all had that, we've all had that experience of walking into whether it's a cafe or a shop, and you just get a funny feeling and it doesn't feel good. And sometimes it's the opposite. You walk in somewhere and you just feel good. And with early education and care, I think that instinct is so important. You know, it there is going to be a level of chaos in an early childhood education care centre when you've got lots of little children, but there's also a calmness in those services that are really designed for children, and you can feel that when you walk into it. And I guess at the parenthood, our advocacy is really focused on how we can create the conditions so that every parent, regardless of their postcode and regardless of their children's needs and their family budget, can they access in their community a high-quality early childhood education and care service that is staffed by professionally paid and properly supported educators and teachers? And because I think the other important barrier to talk about is that we know so many parents have their children turned away from particular services because they're just not funded to meet the needs of their children. And that's a huge issue. The sort of inclusion support funding is an area where we have been advocating for that to be improved because the number of children with additional needs has increased, but the early education and care setting has not been funded to meet that need. And so that's another category of parents who can't access the quality early education care they need because of their children's needs.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

And that's a topic to quickly sort of dive into a little bit further. What that looks like for a service is potentially the funding that is allocated to a service does take a fair bit of administration work on the behalf of the educators going along the journey with the family that potentially have just noticed a couple of things with the child. And when it does come to the point where we are seeking funding to support children to ensure that they're included, it can take six, ten months to gain that funding just from the administration side and going back and forth to ensure that you're you're utilizing that that inclusive language within your service. But additionally, when that funding does come in, it doesn't necessarily allocate enough funding to support an educator that has the skills, knowledge, and expertise to support the children to ensure that environment and now is an inclusive space. Because at times we know that children, some children have high needs at different points of the day. And it does take a skilled, trained educator to have a sound knowledge and background experience to be able to make sure that does enter the side of positive outcomes for all children involved. So that's a really good point to bring up because I think not only is it the amount that we can receive to be able to supply educators with that level of expertise, it's also the time frame in which we're able to access it. Because potentially by that time where we are asking for some support, there has already been a period of time where there have been strategies put in place and nurtured within the environment. So what we don't want to see is that families are being turned away or asked to reduce their hours because they don't have the supports in place to fundamentally probably support the children in their care. Georgie, we know that the workforce investment is non-negotiable, yet the sector is still navigating a shortfall of over 20,000 educators. How do we help the Australian government and families understand that fairly paid, well-trained, and supported educators are the best predictor of high-quality early childhood education and care?

SPEAKER_01 10:51

I think it is just so important to continually talk about the fact that without quality, and that means qualified, supported educators and teachers, there is no early childhood education and care. And we do know if you look into the literature, there's a lot of detail about what creates a quality early education and care environment. But the at the end of the day, it's actually very simple. It comes down to the educators and the teachers. It comes down to how they have been educated, how they have been supported, what are the conditions they're operating in? Because you can have an extremely experienced, highly trained early childhood teacher. But if that teacher is put into an environment where there's more children and there's other far less experienced educators and teachers, and if there's no time off the floor for planning, and if there's, you know, all of those the conditions in which educators and teachers are employed really matter. But at the end of the day, it is those teachers and educators that dictate the quality of those environments. And at the Parenthood, we have been very proud to join the calls for early childhood educators and teachers to be paid fairly. We think the 15% pay rise for early educators through the worker retention payment grant has been very significant in terms of getting closer to educators and teachers being valued for their skills and for that work being paid appropriately. We know that there is still a lot more work to do. Obviously, the worker retention payment, it's a two-year grant that will run out at the end of December. We're very keen to see what happens after that. But our expectation is that it needs to be continually funded because if we don't pay educators fairly, we will not have the educators that our children and families need. But I think it is also important to recognize that money is absolutely critical, but so are the conditions. So, you know, what are the professional development opportunities? What is the working environment? How is a service rostered? Like we know that services that operate right on ratio, that makes it a lot more difficult for the educators and the teachers. When services, the high-quality services, are staffed well above ratio, because we know that makes a huge difference when it comes to the environment of the teachers and the educators, which directly flows onto the environment of the children in their care.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

When we talk about the structure and governing body of a service that potentially puts the children first and quality first, for as you said, above ratio requirements there, people that are making those decisions. How important do you feel that is it for those people that are operating the service or potentially are approved providers or structured in a way that they are in management and control of the financials within the service? How important do you feel that is it for them to have a background knowledge of child development in order to make those decisions?

SPEAKER_01 13:55

I believe that it is critically important that anyone and everyone in decision-making roles in early childhood education and care has got a really solid working understanding of early childhood development and education. And I think that we have enabled early childhood education and care to operate like a market instead of essential infrastructure. And I think that it is clear we have had providers who have had and potentially still do have, an operating model that is geared around profits. And that does sit in conflict with the needs of the children. So I'm not saying in every instance, we know there are for-profit providers that deliver a great quality, but we also know that, particularly in the large for-profit providers, the quality isn't as good. And we know the business model is really around how do we keep costs low? And in early childhood education and care, that looks like having fewer staff with higher qualifications. It will mean rostering right-on ratio, if not below. And that has a direct impact on the quality of a service. And when you consider the vast sums of taxpayer money and also parents' money in out-of-pocket fees, I think it's really reasonable that the expectation is that all early childhood education and care services have to put the well-being and education and development of children first. And I do think there are instances where we have it we have allowed profit to come ahead of that. And that is why we have seen some of the horrendous safety breaches that we have. And it is partly why I think we are in a position where, depending on where you live in this country, your options are vastly different. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

It's something that comes across quite, you would assume that somebody that is operating, owning, and making those decisions would have some background in early childhood education and care. But to hear that potentially they are people that don't have qualifications or an interest in child development, that's something that's something that doesn't feel like it quite aligns with the early childhood education and care when we talk about quality. For instance, if you were looking at a primary school model or a high school model, you would assume that the headmaster or people of the governance would have a background in education. And somewhat that's not evident in the early childhood education and care sector.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Well, I think that it's relevant to say that because of the funding model, there has been a huge amount of investor interest and investor demand for early childhood education and care, and that has shaped where we are today. And so that is, you have had people who have entered the space to make a profit either through the provision of the early childhood education and care itself or through the property associated with those services. And I think that is something that we do have to grapple with, and we do have to say, would we be comfortable with schools operating like this? And I don't think we would. I think that because even though we do have public schools and private schools are not allowed to operate for a profit, or if very few do. If they do, they're not entitled to any government funding. So I and I think that is a real difference with early childhood education and care. And it's sort of almost more concerning because of, by the very nature of children in this window, they are literally the most vulnerable cohort of the population. And so we have seen when the provision of essential human services are able to operate like a market, you do have unintended consequences. And the vulnerable populations, in too many instances, have to pay the price for those policy failures.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

Georgie, we often hear the word choice used in policy debates, but choice only exists if the system actually functions for everybody. Many families don't have the luxury of informal care options, yet current policies often seem built on these expectations, like assuming grandparents are available to step in. How do we shift the conversations to recognize that a robust early childhood education and care system is a necessary safety net rather than one-size-fits-all solution?

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, look, it's a really good question because and look, what we know at the parenthood is that if families do not have options in their community that are affordable, that are that they trust, that are available, there is no choice. And at the moment, that is the case for a lot of families. There is no choice. And when families are in that situation, if they do have grandparents they can rely on, that's not a systemic fix because we know the simple maths of the population is there are not grandparents who are financially and physically and geographically able to step in and provide that care. And I think there's also a really legitimate question to be had about is that a reasonable expectation? Not that we like grandparents are an incredible, can be an incredible figure in the lives of children. And I'm thinking about, you know, my children's grandparents, both my parents and my parents-in-law, they provide incredible opportunities for our kids in terms of school holidays and weekends, and if we're going away, they can step in, but they don't live in Sydney where we do. So we don't, and we've never had that as an option. Both of our grandparents have worked, and that's not uncommon. But it's a very different proposition saying, will you be a supportive, loving person in my child's life versus will you be our family's permanent caregiving arrangement? Not just on the odd week because we have something extra pop up, but every week in, week out. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation because it's just not the reality for the vast majority of households. And so we can't build, we can't fail to build infrastructure because some people don't need it. So we we do have public transport and we do have public hospitals. If you don't need those, you don't have to use them, but you still have got the choice because that road exists, or you know, that bus and train line exists, or that hospital is there. When it comes to early childhood education and care, because we haven't got that foundation of a genuinely universal system, a lot of families don't have choice. And when it does come to informal care, obviously grandparents are one option, but as we've said, they're not available, it's not a practical solution for a lot of people. And then when it comes to informal care in terms of employing a nanny, that is not affordable, even with some form of subsidy. And we've seen this in Australia, but also overseas. When the cost of a nanny is subsidized or there's a voucher for that, the cost invariably goes up. And what we know is that in-home one-on-one care is not affordable for the vast majority of households, even with some financial relief. And so, again, we have to look at how we can build an option for the majority of households. So at the moment, it's about 82% of working families in Australia rely on some form of early childhood education and care. There's 1.4 million children enrolled in these services. It's really important, we believe at the parenthood that we work to ensure that the system can and will deliver for children and families right around the country, regardless of their postcode, regardless of the parents' income or employment status. When we have a universal system, that doesn't mean that it's compulsory. It doesn't mean that you have to put your child in their five. Days a week. But if we had that option, a whole lot of families would genuinely have choice for the first time. And that's what we're really focused on building. Not because it's the only part of the solution, but because without that, we are not building a structural solution that can help meet the needs of the vast majority of households.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

Absolutely. For our end of our podcast, we do three takeaway messages: one theory-based, one practical, and one inspiring. What would be your theory-based takeaway for us today?

SPEAKER_01 22:30

Early childhood education is essential social infrastructure, but right now it is operating as a failing market. And children, families, and educators are paying the price. And practical. What's a practical takeaway? The system isn't designed properly with children at the center. Families feel that immediately through limited access, through higher fees, through fewer real choices. And inspiring. We can build an early childhood education and care system that gives every child and every family real opportunities, whether that is how they combine care or work, but it has to be designed for how people actually live. And that is possible.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Georgie, I can imagine through your time working as advocacy in this space, you would have heard a lot of stories. Are there any stories that come out to you that highlight that you would like to share about what families are going through and what they're grappling with in terms of their decisions and choice and ability to reach for quality care?

SPEAKER_01 23:32

What I've been struck by in the six years that I've been the CEO of the Parenthood is not that there's one story in particular that stands out. It's that there are thousands of stories that are so similar despite the differences. And the similarity is families feeling trapped and stuck. You know, at the Parenthood, we have done a lot of work with families living in regional, rural, and remote communities. The impacts are devastating for families when they the impacts are devastating for families and communities when we don't have adequate quality early childhood education and care because you leave parents stranded, you leave communities stranded. You know, there are so many teachers and principals and psychologists and physios and pharmacists and all of these roles which are desperately needed in communities that can't be filled because you've got parents who are not able to access the early education and care that would enable them to work the way they want to and the way their family needs. And so I am really struck by how many families feel trapped on a hamster wheel and they're wondering why it is this hard. And my answer is always it is not hard because you're making the wrong choices. It is so hard because we have not built the infrastructure that you need as a parent to be able to move between your family and your paperwork in the way that you need to.

SPEAKER_02 25:03

Well, thank you so much, Georgie, for coming on. It's been very inspiring and eye-opening for the conversation. And I really look forward to seeing your work advocating for our families and for our young children and for our educators in this space, particularly with governing changes that are happening at the moment. So thank you so much for coming on to the podcast. Really appreciate you coming and speaking to me and spending the time out of your busy day and schedule.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Thank you so much for having me. And I think one other thing that I would just say is I am really motivated by the fact that children, parents, and early childhood educators are on a unity ticket. You know, what is in the best interests of children is in the best interests of educators and vice versa. And so I keep that front of mind. And I say that to educators, and I say that to parents because we are in this together. There are so many of us who believe we can build a system that genuinely meets the needs of children. And it requires patience. It's a complex area of policy, but I genuinely believe this is probably the most meaningful reform that we could pursue.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Supporting children for a better future for all of us. Exactly. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on this episode of Learn Playthrive the podcast. We hope you found inspiration and valuable insights to fuel your journey in early childhood education. Remember the key to fostering learning, promoting play, and empowering young minds lies with your dedication and creativity. Stay connected between episodes by following us on Instagram at learnplaythrive underscore and join the conversation on Facebook at LearnPlaythrive Australia. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please like, subscribe, rate or review our podcast on your favourite platform. Your feedback helps us to continue to deliver content that resonates with you. And don't forget to visit us at our website at learnplaythrive.com.au for additional resources, blog posts, and professional development opportunities. Until next time, keep learning, keep playing, and keep thriving. We'll see you in the next episode of Learn Playthrive the podcast.