Learn Play Thrive Early Education Podcast

Building Resilience and Tackling Anxiety in Young Children

• Simone Brand • Season 1 • Episode 149

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In this episode of the Learn Play Thrive podcast, host Simone Brand sits down with Dr. Kaylene Henderson—a medically trained child and adolescent psychiatrist, parenting specialist, and one of Australia’s most trusted early childhood experts. Known for her warm, relatable style and ability to translate complex research into "doable" approaches, 

Dr. Henderson unpacks the emotional and practical hurdles parents and educators face when navigating the "Goldilocks dilemma" of support. Together, they explore why it is so difficult to step back, how our own upbringing and modern time pressures impact our teaching, and how to successfully find that sweet spot of helping just enough to allow children to experience crucial, confidence-building moments.

Listeners will walk away with a new perspective on tackling anxiety and developing long-term independence in the early years. Dr. Henderson dives deep into the magic effect of simply teaching children how anxiety works, explaining how to "avoid avoidance" by scaffolding tasks so they become hard but completely doable rather than letting children opt out. 

This insightful conversation serves as a powerful reminder that resilience is not a fixed trait, but an asset built through everyday interactions. Tune in to hear why Dr. Henderson believes that early childhood educators, parents, and carers—not specialists—are the ones perfectly positioned to shift current trajectories and bring out the absolute best in this pandemic-born generation.

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SPEAKER_00

Welcome to Learn Play Thrive the podcast, the ultimate early learning podcast for educators and leaders in the sector. Let's learn, play, and thrive together.

SPEAKER_02

The Learn Play Thrive podcast was recorded on the lands with the Dark and Jung people. We pay our respects to the traditional custodians, past, present, and emerging. Hands up, hands down, we're on Dark and Jung land.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome listeners to Learn Play Thrive the podcast, where we dive deep into the heart of early childhood education and care and the inspirational educators, researchers, advocates, and sector leaders who make it happen. Today we welcome Dr. Kayleen Henderson, a medically trained child and adolescent psychiatrist, parenting specialist, and one of Australia's most trusted experts, supporting all who live, love, and work with the 0 to 12-year-old children. She's also a grateful mother of three awesome children, known for her ability to translate evidence into practical strategies. Along with her warm and relatable style, Kayleen is passionate about caring research-based doable approaches with parents and educators alike. Through her popular online resources, conferences, and webinar presentations, articles and media contributions, dedicating her career to supporting those who make the biggest difference in children's lives. She hopes that together we can bring out the best in the children for whom we all care. Welcome, Kayleen, to Learn Faith Thrive the podcast. Oh, thank you so much for inviting me. I'm thrilled to be here. It's such an honor to have you with us. Kayleen, many parents struggle with the Goldilocks dilemma of support, trying to find that sweet spot between helping too much and not helping enough. Why is it so emotionally and practically difficult for us to step back? And when we are looking for that right amount of help, how can we ensure we're making space for those important moments that actually build the young child's resilience?

SPEAKER_01

Oh gosh, there's, I mean, there's so many ways in which we're pulled these days as educators and parents and carers. And there's so much at play with something like this when we try to find that sweet spot. One of the concepts that really helped me to learn about early on in my specialist training a long time ago, was of the kind of memories that relate to how we were parented. So when we were parented, that's actually encoded in memory and it's not encoded in language, so we might not have a story we can share about why we do things the way we do with the children with whom we work or the or our own children. And we might not know why certain things get under our skin, for example, but we all have that template, that autopilot that we're operating off, which feels instinctual. It feels like we're operating on instinct when we respond, respond to and interact with children the way we do. But but often that is very much guided by the way in which we were parented. So if you had a parent or a carer yourself who tended to demonstrate how much they cared for you by doing a lot of things for you, then that will feel like the way it ought to be done when you're working with children or when you have your own little ones. And that's helpful to know because often it's it often it's those instincts that we don't tend to challenge. You know, we think that we've got that, at least they're in our toolkit, those instincts. But research really should be guiding us quite differently with those things. We are the first generation of parents and professionals to have that research available to us that guides truly how we bring out the best in children, how we promote that resilience, that independence, but also that capacity for closeness, you know, finding that that sweet spot that we all know is most healthy for our children. And that's really what we need to compare against that autopilot that we've we all have on board. And that's feeling. Yeah, that's right, that's right. And just figure out whether whether our instinct is on the money or whether we could tweak that a little bit, knowing that that might actually bring about greater resilience for our children. I think there's you know, there's also other things at play though. At the end of the day, we're all a lot busier, I think, than generations of parents and carers and educators might have been in the past. We have so many competing demands on our time. I think that plays into that, I don't know, never-ending guilt that we tend to experience with children when we feel like we're not present enough. And that can also lead us to doing too much for children as to try and, I don't know, kind of counteract that that guilt. And something else I've noticed too, as both a parent and professional, is that we often tend to scaffold or over-scaffold experiences for our anxious children because we just kind of think they they can't cope with much more, so we don't want to kind of leave them to it as much as we might have otherwise. And we tend to step in possibly earlier or more than is ultimately helpful when building their resilience.

SPEAKER_00

It sounds like at times we're looking at time constraints, and what we're looking for is the potential outcomes faster. So guiding the children to where we think that they need to understand or where they need to be, rather than stepping back and allowing time and patience and and for their discovery to occur. But also, as you said, that gut feeling potentially has come back to our own memories of what that looks like, and these moments that come up, they are sporadic. So it is it is that time where you go, okay, which way should I go with this? And is this a teachable moment or is this one where I need to step in and support a bit further? And that can be quite challenging to understand what that looks like for individual children as an educator. Every child is different in that level of of that support network, I guess, because um there is that sort of saying of asking children open-ended questions to say, well, what do you think about this? Or what do you think you should do with this? And then I guess at what point is that encouragement for children to problem solve themselves and build that resilience, how much of that do we put in place and when? And the flip side of that, at what point do we start overthinking or maybe creating children to overthink things rather than have um a definitive confidence with what they're doing or what they're working towards?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, problem solving, that's a really good example, actually, because it it seems quicker when we jump in and solve problems for children in particular, because we've you know been around on the planet so much longer, we can kind of already see where where this needs to go. But ultimately, you know, if you look at the long game, children don't learn to solve problems when we're solving problems for them. And so if we can scaffold that, helping them just enough to come upon that solution themselves by you know just getting on side with them, making sure we understand what the problem is, providing some sort of empathy around, you know, any sort of distress or sadness or disappointment or frustration that they might be feeling in the moment, and then asking them, gosh, do you think you need to do anything about this? Okay, what options do you think? And which one are you gonna go with? Sounds like you've got this. You know, just kind of that simple scaffolding that leads them to feel like they're a you know competent problem solver who's managed to get there with your support and who over time, if coached by you in this ultimately not terribly time-consuming way, will be very capable of coming up with solutions themselves. And that that's you know, it's it's time-saving, but it's also just ideal for them for their independence and confidence to you know grow up knowing that whatever life throws at them, they've they've got this.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and and and taking risks and um having real life consequences is is part of that growth and part of that understanding that something can happen after you try something a certain way, and that's the outcome, and you learn through that. And, you know, big problems, more problem identification of is is this a big problem impacting us right now, or is this a little problem impacting us right now? And what can we do about it? What can we do and what can't we do? And then focusing on that side of things rather than, as you said, jumping to the conclusion and jumping in there for them.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think there's also some implied messaging that we we would never mean to communicate to children when we jump in and solve problems for them or we do too much for them. And the implied messaging is you know, it's ultimately you you haven't got this, or I don't think you do have this. And, you know, that's not the message we want children to hear or or believe about themselves. One of my own children, and I apologize already to any of your listeners who've ever heard me speak or have got any my training because I always I often mention this uh this particular moment for one of my children when they were little, but honestly, it's just stayed with me as completely where the money is with resilience. Um, when she was very young, she was about 18 months old, and she was, you know, a little tiny little human, um, as in small for her age as well, and often underestimated about how capable she truly was. Whenever she stepped up into a situation that would have previously been too tricky, and I was able to help her just enough for her to get there by herself, um, you know, scaffolding that in whatever way was necessary for her to feel like, you know, she was she had the win, not me doing things for her. Uh, she would do this fabulous thing where she didn't yet have the language skills to say, yes, I did that by myself, but instead she would throw her arms up in the air victoriously, like legs apart, like she'd just won some epic battle against her, I don't know, gum boots or something, and and shout, self to the sky. And those honestly, that's what a great affirmation. Yeah, it was so great. Those those moments, I reckon, self moments, which they're still called in my house, despite the fact that she's now gone deep into her teenage years. That moment where you think, yes, I've got this, I'm capable, I can do tricky things, that they are moments that we inadvertently deprive children of when we jump in and help them too much. And and they're the moments that I think they need more than anything else when building their resilience.

SPEAKER_00

When a child feels overwhelmed and wants to opt out of a challenge, how can we adapt our support as parents and as educators to encourage them to stay engaged? And what role does this play in developing their long-term independent skills?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that's a great question because that because resilience is a challenge for our younger generation. It seems to have really dropped off in our you know, post-COVID children. Um, and with good reason. We know resilience is built from the experiences that children have and the kind of interactions they have with us. And there's no doubt that they experienced fewer resilience-building um moments or opportunities while they were you know stuck in our living rooms, you know, back a few years ago.

SPEAKER_00

And with one person getting that trusting relationship, but then having the exposure outside to build trusting relationships with other dynamics.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely, that's really important too. I think the key is always to help children just enough, to not jump in and do things too much for them, but also not just leave them to it, um, knowing that they don't stand a chance. It's finding that sweet spot, which can certainly change, or it absolutely changes across you know different unique individual children, but it can even change throughout the day for the same child. But when a situation is too hard, whatever that might be, rather than allowing them to just opt out and teach them again, you you haven't got this. Um it's far more helpful if we can think, you know, out loud with the child, gosh, this seems a bit tricky, doesn't it? Do you think it's too tricky? Okay. Well, how can we make this hard but doable? And that's what I think we need to really coach children to see opportunities with too, is when things are too hard, you can seek help if you need to, but the idea is to figure out how we can make this hard but doable. Because in life, through childhood, through teenage years, and through adulthood, there will always be moments that feel just too hard. And rather than opting out of those moments, we we really do need to have that coached, embedded attitude of gosh, what do I need to do to make this hard but doable? And that's that's what we can teach children from a very early age.

SPEAKER_00

And almost flipping the script to this big picture to rather than okay, this is this is a big picture thing that we're talking about now, but maybe we can break it down into smaller steps. What's one step that we can step towards this and then do that step? What's the next thing that we could do? Oh look, we're already up here. We've already been able to do this so much. Are some other things that we can do to get there? Or you know, it's hard to talk in without having an actual example. But if we're if we're talking about young children and then uh into the you know, about ready to go to school age children, there are some items where you look at what they're capable of and you think they're absolutely capable of this, but they're thinking about it as the end product or the end step rather than well, hold on, first things first, we only need to do this part, and we start there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. So I would teach children to to picture a ladder, and we don't think how am I gonna get from the bottom of the ladder to the top of the ladder in one leap. Because yes, we need to take the steps. Yes, how you know what's the first step you can take? And then if we're gonna get from there to there, what can you do? And then once you mastered that, what can you do from there and just building up rung by rung until until you get there.

SPEAKER_00

And I see this a little bit with families, but also with educators, particularly when you're looking at handwriting or fine motor control, you can see that there's this idea of, for instance, writing your name and practicing writing your name, but first steps or drawing a picture, but first steps potentially are looking at shapes or looking at line marking or um looking at being able to dot on a paper so you can do a dot dot smile, and then you've made meaning of something that they've created on the page. So as an educator, we also need to step back and have a look at what we're asking the children to do. If, say, we're asking them to draw, can you draw a picture of, or what would this flower look like if you were to be able to be creative and draw it? We also need to have the skills as educators to step back and go, what are we actually asking them to do? And can we break this down into a smaller step? Oh, look, I've noticed there's some shapes on that, on that picture, or or what happens when you do this? Oh, that looks like you're drawing an eye. So pointing out those small steps towards making that meaning on the page and and going backwards from there rather than straight away putting a piece of paper in front of a child and saying, write your name. And potentially that child's never had interest in that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, that's right. And along the way, it's also I'd add it's also important that when you do make comments to encourage them, that we don't focus on you know the end result, we don't just focus on whether that flower looks exactly like a flower. Yeah. Um, but commenting on the process that got them there, commenting on gosh, look at the colours you've chosen to use, or oh wow, look at how many swirls there are. Um, or just I love to watch you draw, or I love to, you know, sit next to you and see what you come up with. You know, all those kind of process elements that teach children that when you are learning new skills, you don't have to nail it straight away. It's impossible. And it can be enjoyable. Absolutely. Enjoy the process. Don't expect yourself to be perfect with a task you yet to learn.

SPEAKER_00

I think when we look at lifelong learning and being able to promote that in the early years with our beautiful developing brains that they have at the moment that are just accelerating, I think you hit the nail on the head when you say it's about the experience and the feeling that they get when they're doing whatever it is that they're doing. And if that experience is they've got a positive connotation or positive connection to that, they're going to more likely try it out again or know that they can give it a go or have the confidence to give it a go because the way that they felt.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. And I think because that comes back to what you mentioned at the start too, that challenging themselves and taking risks, we often think about risks just in terms of that physical element, you know, those climbing structures and things in outdoor play. But there's there's inherent risk in having a go at something you actually don't know how to do. And having a go at doing that in the presence of someone who is one of the most important humans in your life, and they are watching on as you have a crack at this, and you really want them to, you know, want to be there and continue to think highly of you. There is inherent social and relational risk there. And and I don't think that can be undervalued, that when you sit there and you watch them not nail something perfectly, yeah, and but and yet you are very content to sit there and encourage them and enjoy them and um and notice all that was wonderful about the effort and process and ideas they came up with, then that is very valuable learning for children who will then be more willing to, I guess, just take those challenges with their with their learning and in life down the track that you are building resilience. Even in those tiny moments, you're building resilience.

SPEAKER_00

Giving things a go. There was a beautiful study a fair few years ago, and you probably know of it, where there were children, young children, so babies and toddlers that could just crawl, were put in a position of they were placed on top of um a table or a high object, and they were kind of let go to see what they would do, to see if they were able to assess their own risk and make determinations at a young age. The the outcomes was that the children were able to see when their body was in danger, but maybe whether or not they had the ability to slow down or you know, that reflex of understanding when to stop, but they definitely were able to assess that risk factor in their physical element. So when we look at children, um, say if we take children outside in in a nature area and they want to climb a tree or what have you, and there's hazardous spaces, at what point or what language can educators use rather than be careful before putting on their own uh anxieties to that child to allow for that physical play to continue in a safe space?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's a great question. And parents would equally find this tricky because again, we often fall back to that instinct or autopilot that was passed down from generations before us who possibly didn't have exposure to the research letting us, letting them know how valuable risky play was. Um when we say be careful, I mean there's you know, we've all thought it, but when children hear be careful, be careful, be careful, they're not ultimately more careful because they're trying to be careful as exactly as you mentioned already. We just distract them from the task of trying to be careful. Um but also again, we're we're kind of undermining that message that we want them to hear, which is you know, you've got this. Children ultimately need practice risk taking. They do need practice judging which risks to take, which to leave well alone, how they approach risk, um, where their capabilities extend to and and possibly where they end, um, and to be able to pull themselves back at those moments. That's all really, really helpful learning. But the language that I would default to would be probably just around coaching how to approach risk if needed, rather than just deferring to that, be careful. So, you know, when my own children climb trees back in the day when they were younger, um, I would say things like, Oh, okay, which tree are you headed for? Oh, go you good thing, that looks like fun. Um, you know, if I had to mention something, I might say, uh, if I thought my child wouldn't think of it themselves, I would I would possibly prompt them with, remember last time we we figured out it's a good idea to work on your down plan even while you're working on your up plan, because sometimes trees are mysteriously harder to come down from than they are to climb into. Um you know, if if I noticed that my child wasn't testing branches that possibly needed testing, I might say, How are you going testing those branches? Yeah, you know, the specific risk.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, rather than saying being careful of whatever you've seen or foreseen could be the issue, identify that issue and mention it to them so that they're aware and you know that they're aware.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's right. So you're just coaching them how to approach risk uh safely rather than you know the generic be careful, which ultimately doesn't keep them more careful.

SPEAKER_00

Are for parents and educators looking to support a child struggling with big fears, what would you suggest are the most effective ways to help them understand and tackle their anxieties?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's too big a topic to cover in a chat, unfortunately, because it's one I absolutely love talking about. I genuinely think that the current service delivery model that we have, where families will often line up one at a time for an exceptionally long time, you know, 18 months in some instances, waiting to see a mental health professional like me. Um, I I just I think that system is is outdated and ultimately not the most helpful when parents and educators can have such a wonderful head start. Start teaching their children about anxiety, teaching them what it is, when it's helpful, why it's helpful, and how to control the intensity of it if it's not particularly helpful in that moment. You know, I think if we can give children that head start, and then if we can see children are struggling beyond that, then absolutely ask for help and cue up for that professional support, which I I do hope will one day not have the cues that it does at the moment. But just teaching children about anxiety and including it in all of that wonderful emotional literacy learning that educators and parents do already would be so, so impactful. I mean, we we teach children about you know, happy, sad, disappointed, angry, all these other emotions. But anxiety and feeling anxious rarely gets a mention, despite the fact it's one, it's you know it's a completely universal, normal, normal human emotion. Uh it's built to protect us, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

Anxiety, that feeling, the vestibular system, um, the nervous system is built to look out for for any danger surrounding us.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so if we're in danger, it rushes in to help us and ensures that we are in the best state to survive. And that is something we would never want children to be without. But because it feels dangerous, like it should, you know, that's how it's designed to feel, it's not supposed to feel comfortable, otherwise, you might just stay there despite danger being, you know, right in front of you. It's supposed to feel dangerous. So if we never teach children about it, then when they feel anxious, as they will sometimes, given that it's normal human emotion, they will worry about what it is they're experiencing that is unfamiliar and unknown to them and feel so unsafe. And because then it feels like they're in danger, even just having this experience, it makes them feel more anxious. And so you kind of get this layering effect of anxiety, stacked on anxiety, where if we just if we just did one thing and taught children about anxiety from as early as as we can, then we would actually short circuit that layering effect. We would actually make a really big impact on the intensity of anxiety that our children as a whole experience. And that's that is very doable. The problem though is that generally speaking, we as adults were never taught about anxiety. And we've probably learnt it along the way because we've we've had to or we've gone to see someone, and that person has taught us because anxiety is you know gets in the way for a lot of us. So we might have learnt it along the way, but we were never taught in the way that it would be helpful if all children were taught. So we often don't have the language around that. So if that's something that I can, you know, jump in and help with, then I'd I'd certainly love to. If you think any of the educators or or parents listening might think, well, great, but what language do I use? Then then um you know I can certainly share them some resources around that. But that's that is truly the one thing that if we did differently as a generation of educators and and parents around anxiety would make a really big impact.

SPEAKER_00

Because if children can understand that anxiety is natural and the feeling of it and what their body feels like, then being able to go, okay, I've identified, I've um I'm anxious about this. What is it I'm anxious about? And then being able to identify what the problem is that's that's causing the anxiety, or maybe it's it's it's helpful anxiety. If you're about to jump off something that's two meters up in the air and potentially you're feeling a little bit anxious about, that's your body telling you, well, this may not be so safe and maybe something we need to assess.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's right. And even if children aren't at that stage of cognitive development where they can reflect on what is it that I'm worried about or what is it that I'm feeling anxious about, which you know obviously many young children won't be. Just being just having an awareness that that feeling comes from anxiety, which I liken to a kind and helpful friend that just dashes in when it when it thinks that we're unsafe because it wants to keep us safe. Um, just knowing that that's what it is, is then a less anxiety-provoking experience. And teaching children that if that's what anxiety is, and if you notice you're feeling like that, that your kind and helpful friend anxiety has dashed into help, you can just do a quick scan and think, am I actually in danger? No, I'm about to, maybe I'm about to share show and tell with with my preschool class, but I'm not actually in danger. Um, so thanks, anxiety. I you know, I appreciate that you're running to give me a hand, but I've actually got this. And then just coming back and focusing on the task at hand. That's that's it's such a small thing to empower children with that one piece of knowledge about what it is, but it's actually really powerful.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. And then having some strategies in place that we can co-regulate that anxiety with, like, okay, if we are noticing this, maybe we can take some deep breaths and then see how your body feels.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

If you feel like you can take on the challenge, or maybe you need someone as some some support in place to be able to continue what it is that you're doing. Maybe it's telling news.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's actually it's something that there are a lot of strategies that even really young children can use to, I guess, just check whether it's quiet in the moment, and then if it's not, which it most often won't be, then to be able to calm their bodies and their minds down much more quickly than if they just waited it out. But even just knowing that if you do just write it out, that that anxiety will ease is still new and empowering knowledge for a lot of our children. So there are a lot of a lot of tips that honestly parents and educators are actually best placed to share with children, given, you know, that they're the most important teachers in their eyes, and and also the frequency at which they're, you know, part of their day and part of their life, the frequency they're seeing them. And that is that is something I'm I'm really passionate about, empowering parents and educators with with that sort of knowledge so that they can guide children in those really simple ways.

SPEAKER_00

The tool could we have the resources attached to this podcast so um any listeners out there that would like to have access to those resources can go on and access from Dr. Kayleen Henderson as well, so you can understand on how to support children and educators and families in in those spaces. At the end of our podcast, we do three takeaway messages one theory-based, one practical, and one inspiring. What would be your theory-based takeaway for us today?

SPEAKER_01

Oh gosh, I think it comes down to that just enough messaging that when children seek help from you or appear to need help when things are too tricky for them, the research does support that approach of looking at the situation and thinking, how can I help you just enough for you to get this, for you to have that self moment, so that you can build confidence, independence, and resilience. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

And practical. What's the practical strategies we can bring forward?

SPEAKER_01

I think it's just the practical reminder that I would really like parents and educators to hear that resilience isn't a fixed trait. It's built through those experiences and interactions. And knowing that it's not fixed is really empowering for us because we know that even though there has been that dip in children's resilience, we can now help them catch up. And if we know the practical moments that build resilience for children with that goal in mind to help them catch up on as many of those as we can gift them through the day, then we can really double down our efforts to boost their resilience and ultimately really improve their long-term outcomes.

SPEAKER_00

Taking that pause moment before we jump in.

SPEAKER_01

And inspiring, inspire us. Oh, my inspiring message, to be honest, it's more of an inspired message because I I genuinely feel so honoured to work in this supporting cheerleading role. That's how I kind of see myself as part of the cheer squad for parents and carers and educators. Despite the many, many years of specialist training I did as a child psychiatrist, hoping to help children, I very quickly realized that the people who ultimately make the biggest impact in children's lives are parents and educators. And I feel so honoured to be included, even in moments like this, to have conversations listened to by parents and educators, knowing that you know, you as those support networks. Yeah, you are perfectly placed to actually bring out the best in our children and to really shape, you know, our future. Children are our future, aren't they? Um, I think sometimes parents and educators, particularly in those busy or messy moments, can forget how important this role is that you're in. But it is, gosh, you're literally building brains behind the scenes, you're shaping expectations of um you are shaping children's trajectories and and your impact will be felt all throughout children's lives. You really are a really big deal, and so it's less of an inspiring message and more of an inspired one. But I I'm just so grateful to be in a position where I can help you just enough to do that incredibly, incredibly important thing that you do day in, day out for our children.

SPEAKER_00

Amazing. And it can just take that one micro moment and that one memory that that child has to support them for the rest of their life. So all the partnerships that educators have with psychiatrists like yourself or psychologists or the team around them, any any micro moment that we have with children can change a trajectory of a child's life and a community as a whole, which is incredible. Absolutely. And hopefully we continue to see resilience rise back up and uh we get we we become really strong as as a community and and build build um strength in that aspect.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well, it's going to take the efforts of parents and educators to help children catch up. They're not going to seek to do that naturally, they'll they'll just seek out those moments as they would have had they not had that pause for a few years. So it is really up to us to know that that's what children need, to recognize that and to meet that need as early as we can. But you know, just knowing that you have so many listeners who are who are there trying to do exactly that, I mean, they're the inspiring ones. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thank you so much, Dr. Kayleen. You've been absolutely inspiring and um I'm really grateful to have you on to have this conversation and your expertise and and that message of coming across to educators and and making such a difference in in people's lives. Um really appreciate you coming on to have the chat with us today.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Learn Playthrive the podcast. We hope you found inspiration and valuable insights to fuel your journey in early childhood education. Remember the key to fostering learning, promoting play, and empowering young minds lies with your dedication and creativity. Stay connected between episodes by following us on Instagram at learnplaythrive underscore and join the conversation on Facebook at LearnPlaythrive Australia. If you've enjoyed today's episode, please like, subscribe, rate, or review our podcast on your favourite platform. Your feedback helps us to continue to deliver content that resonates with you. And don't forget to visit us at our website at learnplaythrive.com.au for additional resources, blog posts, and professional development opportunities. Until next time, keep learning, keep playing, and keep thriving. We'll see you in the next episode of Learn Playthrive the podcast.