Pleasure vs Intimacy vs Sex: Why Your Body Wants More Than a Quickie

Not all pleasure ends with an orgasm, and not all intimacy happens in the bedroom... and yes, we’re absolutely side‑eyeing hustle culture while we say that. 

In this episode, the EngErotics team untangles pleasure, intimacy, and sex so they stop fighting for top billing in your brain. From squirrel‑watching and beekeeping to music, food, and quiet mornings alone, they show how everyday joy can be just as intimate as date night (with a lot less laundry).

We dig into Raven’s intimacy guide, how to feel close when you’re touched‑out, busy, or burnt crispy, and why intentional rest might be the sexiest thing you do all week. 

Expect real talk on boundaries, self‑care, receiving pleasure without guilt, and building rituals that make your relationship (with yourself and others) feel less like a chore and more like a soft place to land.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Pleasure, intimacy, sex. Three things people act like are automatically bundled together like a Costco family pack. They are not. Sometimes you want connection, sometimes you want sensation, sometimes you just want everybody to stop talking and rub your shoulders correctly for once. Hello, hello, and welcome to the Enderotics live stream. I am Jackie Mick, your emotional support chaos cobbl the day. Uh this month, we over on the blog, we unpacked the difference between pleasure, intimacy, sex. I'm gonna introduce you, and when when you hear the words pleasure, intimacy, and sex, do they feel connected to you or do they feel completely separate? We're gonna start as always with Raven, our founder and CEO. Or are they connected or separate for you?

SPEAKER_03 0:46

It depends on the day. It depends on the day. Some days I'm very heavy on don't touch me, leave me the fuck alone, um, don't touch me at all, don't look at me. Other days I'm like, I want all the things. So I I think that these days they have to be separate so that I can combine them and mix and match uh as it serves me during that particular moment.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Fair enough, fair enough. Uh Heather, our COO and formulation specialist. Um what about you? Are they like separate together? Do you think people confuse them one for one of another?

SPEAKER_01 1:31

They are definitely separate. Um, for me personally, I like them together, but they are separate concepts, and people in general, um, I think a lot of people do confuse them uh and don't understand the distinctions between them.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

All right. And then Amanda, our sexologist and CBD researcher who wrote this massively amazing blog. Uh are they separate for you? What do you think is the biggest like misconception people have about it?

SPEAKER_00 2:02

Yeah, I definitely would say that they are separate, but I also fully believe that there is an intersection between all three of them.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Um yes, I agree with that. And me personally, uh like I said at the top, I'm Jackie. And I think that people expect a lot, like the general public tends to expect sex to do the work of like six different relationships and just call it a day. So that's where I'm opening up.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

That sounds awesome. While you guys are opening it up, I'm gonna connect my I'm I've got disconnected from the comments. So, in the event that there are any comments from YouTube, I'm gonna work on that real quick. So that way I don't miss anybody.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Yes. So, Amanda, you wrote this blog, and it is um such a massive undertaking that when you started it, you were like, I think this needs to be two parts, and we decided to make it two parts. So, how did how did that come about? How did it get so uh there's just so much here?

SPEAKER_00 3:08

Yeah, so the original topic was gonna be pleasure, intimacy, and sex throughout the life stages and how it changes and evolves over time depending on your age and life factors and things like that. And as I was writing, um, I really started getting into the actual differences um and similarities, but really the differences between pleasure, intimacy, and sex. And as I was going through that, I was like, this is a blog in itself. If I would have done all of it together, you guys would be reading a novel. So I was like, let's break it up into two different blogs. And so that's how this month we got pretty much the differences between the three, and then next month we're gonna see how those three um topics, how those three differences change and evolve over time. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

So I my first question, I guess, is what do you what is your most pleasurable aspect of life outside of sexy times? Or if it's if if the most pleasure part of your life is sex, you can say that too.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

But my world has expanded uh beyond sex. I'm not saying that because I don't enjoy sex. Um I'm saying that because I'm 40 years old. And it has to expand uh beyond sex. Um it really does, like it in in my not so humble opinion. Uh, I often tell people that, you know, when we're younger, when I say younger, I'm like talking about when we're coming of age in our teens and even in our early 20s, like, you know, like when we're figuring out who we are, I feel like everything is sex. Everything is sex, like, you know, everything turns you on so easily, like, oh, they look to me a certain kind of way. Maybe we're gonna do it, you know. Like, oh, like you brushed my hand and you just get like tingles all through your body. And like now it's like more is required. There's a distinct difference between sex and intimacy, um, because I don't necessarily have time, desire, drive, energy to do do the sex, but intimacy is great. Um, where else do I derive pleasure from? Um, man, like so many places. Um I love going, I call them like musical memory trips and um not like a trip, but like a trip, like you're going on a journey. Um and I have a um YouTube premium, YouTube music premium in my car. And it's amazing because I can listen to whatever the hell I want. And so I get a lot of pleasure from listening to songs that I really enjoy that take me back to a certain time in my life. Um, I get a lot of pleasure from eating.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Yeah, that's that would blow that would be my number one answer, would be food. Music and food.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

I love food and music, food and music. Um, absolutely, like the senses, you know. Um, I could go on. Let me stop.

SPEAKER_02 6:08

Music in general is kind of like a time machine. Like um, there's I'm really into like movie scores right now, not like the pop songs that are in movies, but like the the instrumental music behind like the scenes and stuff. And there's certain composers that are so good at their job when I listen to a piece of music, it will take me back to like whatever was happening in that scene. And I love that. I love that because sometimes I want to experience part of a movie without having to watch the whole thing, and the music does that for me. Absolutely. What about you, uh Heather? What where where where else do you find your pleasure?

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah, I mean, pleasure is such a charged word that's really tough because it can, I think when you talk pleasure, especially in our industry, we automatically go to sexual pleasure, right? Um, but more often than not these days, I really get pleasure out in nature that's a very, very non-sexual, but just that peacefulness, noticing the natural world around me, finding finding the bugs in the ground and like spending time with that, not being rushed, being able to hear the wind rustling through the leaves, or the sound of water dripping off of a rock, or whatever that is. Like that that's kind of my happy place is I really like being um calm and I like sharing it with others if I can. Um just being able to just be and observe, and nothing is expected. You're not producing anything, you're not doing anything, you're just allowed to experience and receive that joy of of being and existing in nature. So that's that's like that's my happy place.

SPEAKER_02 7:55

I think that in general the the the world at large right now has trouble just receiving pleasure.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

Agreed, hard, yeah, 100% agree.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah, I think that expectation of always giving, always producing, always earning something, never being able to just say, I'm worthy of this just by nature of being human and existing.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

Yeah, yeah. But I I feel you on the nature front. I have uh squirrels that live on my property, and spending time with them on my front porch is one of the highlights of every single day. I love giving them nuts and uh uh figuring out nicknames for them. And like last year, my favorite squirrel had babies twice, and I got to meet all of our little babies growing up. And we have a bird's nest on one of our gutters, which is not, you know, ideal, but um, I thought it was empty for a while, and then the other day I looked up and there were two baby birds like screaming their heads off, begging to be fed by their mom, and then I got to watch the mom feed them, and it was so exciting. And this seems like such a tiny thing, but who takes the time to notice those things anymore? I think very few people.

SPEAKER_01 9:11

Yeah, totally agree. Like we've got um a bumblebee, and I don't know where she lives, but every time I go out to water my flowers, she always pops up and drinks some of the water and then you know goes in and enjoys the nectar. And it just makes me so happy. Like she's not aggressive, you know, she she's just super chill and she's always there. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

Bees, I took uh a year-long class in beekeeping last year, and I did not get stung once, which is amazing because I've never been stung in my entire life. So I was kind of looking forward to getting stung for the first time to see what it was like, but it's still not gentle. But bees in general, I like experiencing things. I really bees in general they're gentle are um yeah, they're gentle attack you unless unless you mess with them. But yellow jackets stay away from yellow jackets. Yeah, no, they're assholes.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

I I learned that bees are very gentle um by watching bee content on yeah, bee content. It really started with um oh gosh, I cannot remember her name. Uh the but she has a name, but the name of her channel is Texas Bee Works, I think. And so she's got like a very like calming, soothing voice, and she does this voiceover of her removing bees humanely. Uh, see Jackie is going straight to the internet to you will love this. And she talks about the process of removing the bees, like you know, and she always talks about like I found a whole hive of very gentle bees. She doesn't and she like draws out the word bees, bees, and I'm like, oh, this is so relaxing. Um, but she scoops them out with her hands. She doesn't wear any, like very rarely, I think on a couple of her videos, um, but she scoops them out. She looks for the queen, she puts the queen in a clip and then you know moves the queen over to a you know a new home so everybody can migrate. And uh, and that's like where I learned that, you know, bees are really gentle. So I've been telling my kids about how bees are gentle. Um, and I actually get a lot of pleasure from like we get bumblebees in the clover in my backyard. So, and I just like I get down there and I like look at like, you know, and they're so fuzzy and you know, and they just have a good time down there. Um and um, and if it's not the bees, this is not for everybody, this next part, but we have like a lot of we have open space by my house. Um, we find a lot of uh little snakes. Well, they're not a lot of them aren't so little, some of them are quite large, but little garter snakes. Um, they're not venomous, they're not vicious. Um, I've decided that all my snakes are girls, like they're all girls. Uh, we give them names. Um, you know, they come out and send themselves and they're just a lot of fun. Now I know not everybody loves snakes, like I get it, I respect it. Um, but being like one of those like you know, witchy woo-woo people, like I mean, I really like enjoy seeing them, you know, around the house and in the rocks and everything. And if I have the opportunity to move one, like, you know, out of harm's way, like, you know, we will. Um, yeah. So I mean, it's the little things. It's the little things. It's not just about the sex. It's not just sex is great. Sex is great.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

But also, watching nature do sex is also kind of fun. Like, if you just stumble upon two animals or two bugs getting it. It's exciting. Like, I'm excited for them. I'm like, you guys are having a good day.

SPEAKER_03 12:41

The squirrels in my backyard, okay. The squirrels, they need to calm the hell down, okay? Like, because we're gonna get a citation, like, with some of the stuff these squirrels. But that's how you get more squirrels. They're like the babies running like up and down the tree and everything. And I just like I'll look out the window because it's like the like my backyard's like right here. And so it's like I work from my kitchen table and I just see like the squirrels just squirreling, and I'm like, y'all need to. I mean, oh, what is going on over there? Like, so every year, so you know, but it's we get a lot of really cool wildlife and birds and stuff, and blue jays and robins, all kinds of stuff. So, um, birds.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Okay, have have you ever tried to feed a blue jay before? They are wild. Okay, so we have blue jays that live in the trees in our front yard, and they will hang out if we're out there like feeding the squirrels, they will hang out in the trees and yell at us until we throw them a peanut, and they will jump out of the tree, catch the peanut in midair, and if they somehow miss the peanut out of midair, they will dive down with like laser precision to exactly where the nut landed. It is wild to watch blue bay blue jays when you feed them.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

I will have to note it. I I have now have a new hobby.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

We have color jays here, and so they're not like in our backyard, but up in the mountains in Colorado. And their nicknames are camp robbers, uh, because they are crafty, they are smart, and they will wait till you get up to use the bathroom and they'll steal your lunch. Like they're they're incredibly intelligent. They're very fun to watch, so you have to protect your food.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

I think I think like pleasure is just such a it's broader than what most people realize. And Amanda, you probably know this. Like, you're a sexologist. I am not a sexologist, I'm an engineer. Do engineers know anything about pleasure? I mean, that's up for debate. Like, we are like, I think I, you know, sometimes, sometimes I wonder though. Sometimes I wonder, like, do I mean I know like as a whole, like, you know, engineers are human beings too. Um, but judging from like some of the like high achieving type A personality types that I've encountered, that most people encounter in the world of engineering, like sometimes I wonder, because I remember what it was like, you know, being in school, and there were some personality types that I really like wondered, like, well, I mean, is this bringing you any joy? And I mean, you know, it I did two degrees in engineering, it's rigorous, it ain't no joke to write a thesis. Um, so I had to like be very intentional about finding joy, finding pleasure, because I wasn't like writing a thesis wasn't necessarily pleasurable, like it was a grind. I was very excited to get my degree, but the process was like, you know, but I met some you know, personality types where it was like, you know, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. It doesn't really matter like if I enjoy it, like I'm trying to get to the finish line, and that's all that matters. And so sometimes I wonder about that. So it's like I know that you know, we engineers, we get, you know, we're stereotyped a lot, you know, we're you know, but there's you know, kind of a smidge of truth to some of it. Um, so do engineers find pleasure. I think some engineering types need to learn how to find pleasure if I'm just remember.

SPEAKER_02 16:22

I think for the most part, we all knew how to look for pleasure and find pleasure as kids. Uh, but as we got older, that went away from the forefront of our imaginations. Not me. I love loving things. It's one of my favorite I love to love things, and I will never let that go.

SPEAKER_03 16:39

Oh, I I love you. Like, I get that Jackie love all the time. Like, you know, I've I can feel it coming through the screen. So um, I agree. There's a lot of pleasure in loving things. Um, you know, loving on people, loving, loving people you don't know, doing doing kind things. Like, you know, for me, like, you know, I've got two kids, and I've been getting a lot of pleasure and joy from seeing like them, like their social lives have blossomed substantially. We don't do play dates anymore. We're hanging out. We they're we're hanging out. And so my oldest, who's 10, he'll ride his bike to his homie's house, and his he, and then he'll ride over here, and they'll be like just all up in each, you know, they're over there and they're over here, you know. And it's like being like when I was growing up when we were a kid. And so um, you know, and like sometimes like the kids' friends will stay for dinner and I get to feed them or whatever. That is really awesome. Like, it really brings me a genuine sense of joy to see that everybody's hanging out and having a good time. I mean, and being safe, you know, nobody's but you know, and I'm just like sitting here, like just being like essentially furniture, like nobody's paying attention to me. There, but that's what it is. Like, am I wrong? Like, that is you know, your your kids get together with people and you just don't exist, and you're just kind of like, okay, well, if anybody needs snacks, yeah, until they need food. So, Amanda, do you have any thoughts? You've been down there, like just well, you're down there for me in the corner. Yeah, you're down there for me too. Yeah. I'm Dylan, I wrote the blog. Yeah, true. Amanda's like, I said what I needed to say. Mic drop. She was like, refer to the blog if you need a comment.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Before before we move on to intimacy, I would like to talk about the food part of pleasure because I like I said, before we got started, I was telling you that I had one of the best hot dogs of my life at the Football Hall of Fame. And who says that about a hot dog? Uh what's like one of the best uh foods that has given you pleasure lately?

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Pizza will never fail me. Even bad pizza. Same pizza.

SPEAKER_02 18:58

That's true. Some sometimes I will order specifically a Hungry Howie's pizza just for the specific Hungry Howies experience. In my opinion, Hungry Howies is the best chain pizza. And I am a pizza, I call myself a pizza purist. I love pizza.

SPEAKER_00 19:12

Do we have hungry howies here? We don't. That's I haven't heard of that in years. I lived in Florida for a second. We had Hungry Howies there. Oh my god, that's like a I just feel like a blast from the past right now. Hungry Howie's. Wow. And I'll I'll see your hungry howies.

SPEAKER_02 19:27

They have flavored crust and their cheese discosmos. And what was that?

SPEAKER_03 19:33

I'll I'll see your hungry howwies and raise you a cosmos. Uh when you come out here, and you will.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

Is it a chain? Um you know chain because Hungry Howies is not my favorite pizza. It's my favorite chain pizza.

SPEAKER_03 19:46

So Cosmos. I guess we can kind of call it a little chain now because they're opening a new location in Broomfield, not far from my house. I would put that as a local pizza joint. That's not a chain. Really? Okay.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Well, it doesn't matter. That's not a chain.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

Chain, chain.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Still though, um. Don't get me wrong, I'll try it and I'll look. I like I thought we were talking about pizza. I I had pizza one time when I was in Ohio, and it was amazing. So, what about you, Heather? What's what's your food, pleasure food of choice lately?

SPEAKER_01 20:21

Oh man, that's a tough one. Um, spring rolls are usually my go-to comfort food. They're just like refreshing and like complex, and all kinds of textures are like soft and squishy and chewy and crunchy, and I love them. Um yeah, I don't know. I went out for drinks last night and had a really good uh housemade uh lemon cello spritz. That was really good. Oh, that sounds really refreshing. That sounds delicious. Yeah, it was that was pretty awesome. Uh, I definitely uh could not drive home after that. It was very high proof, too.

SPEAKER_04 20:54

You did it right, you did good.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah, well, and I didn't have to drive, so it was great. Um but yeah, that was so recently like yeah, last night that that was pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

There is something to be said about like a variety of textures in a in a meal too. I really like having I like having options. My favorite thing is when I when I'm with a group of people and we all order something different and just share. I love trying things.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Yeah, I love all the different textures, but the rest of my household cannot stand textures. They like everything to be homogenous, and it absolutely drives me crazy. Um, like because I like the you know, gooey and like all yeah, yeah. Boring.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

My my daughter, when she was growing up, uh went through the texture thing, and now she and now as a grown-up, she is uh over it. And speaking of pleasure, she's over in Italy right now at a screenwriting retreat, just literally living her best life. Like her pictures look full of pleasure right now. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

Yeah, it's crazy. I think a lot of people forget that pleasure isn't necessarily Sexual. Like I think that people hear pleasure and they're like, that means sex. And it really does it can. I mean, but there's a lot of sex that really isn't pleasurable, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

So, you know, like and by the same measure, there's a lot of sex that isn't really intimate.

SPEAKER_03 22:18

Yes, also true. Also very true.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Um, and also valid, too. Like it's okay to have one and not the other if that's what you're going for.

SPEAKER_02 22:27

Yeah. Yeah. Going in with a what's the thing from Friday Night Lights? Clear eyes, open hearts, something, something. Yeah, that sounds about right.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

Yeah, we'll go with that. Yeah, that sounds about right. Um, we were talking about food. I was trying to, I was thinking about like what kind of food. I mean, I just I really enjoy I I enjoy good food. Like, you know, is I I don't I hate bland food. Like, if you're over there and you're putting like six speckles of seasoning on your food, I will not be eating with you. Okay, like I I need like it's like because we flavors are so uh intricate. It's like scent. Well, I mean, you know, taste and scent are very much related, and so um flavors, like complex flavors, interesting flavors, um, you know, really make eating very pleasurable for me. Um, down the street, there's a local sushi joint that I really enjoy, and they have something called the ceviche roll. And I really enjoy ceviche. So, like we went there and I was like, let me it is so good. It comes with like a ceviche that you spoon over the roll, and it's got like a very like um the acid, the tangy uh acidity that you get from ceviche, um, combined with like the chewiness of the roll. Like, it's just really good. I've never had it any other place. Um outside of that, like I love me a good steak. Um, and I didn't know that I enjoyed roasted marrow on my steak until I went to a high-end place and they had marrow on like it's not like you can find marrow anywhere. We just happened to be eating at this high-end place in downtown Denver. And I was like, oh, well, you know, we're here. We're dropping some coin. Let's try the marrow. And I really enjoyed it. Um, so I have like I keep like marrow bones in my deep freezer. And so when we make some I can remember, I'll roast one in the oven. And we have that, yeah. So um, and I love a good cake, but y'all already knew that because I like to bake. You know, baking. You get pleasure out of baking. Yes, very much. Like, you know, and it's I think it's it's very um it goes back to like the engineering part, like, you know, because it's very you have to measure, you know, it's like cooking is art, okay. It that can be the wild west and everything. Baking is a process, it's gotta be precise. No, you cannot substitute baking soda uh for for baking powder. You cannot do that, you cannot do that. Um the type of salt that you use matters. Um, so I've found like there have been times where I've like, you know, I've given people the recipes that I use. I don't gatekeep the recipes that I use, but you know, it took me a little while to figure out because this has happened a few times. Hey, Raven, I followed the recipe that you gave me and it did not taste good. It did not come out right, and I swear I followed it, you know, and I'm like, well, if you followed it, I don't understand like why it didn't come out right. And it took me some time to realize that there's a lot more than just the recipe, there's the technique of the prep work. So, like, you know, how you flour the pan, what you're, you know, all kinds of stuff. Like, you know, like are you like the type of oven you use? I like to turn my cakes 90 degrees halfway through the baking time, all kinds of stuff. Like, are you tapping out the air bubbles? Like, are you over mixing? Like, is your kid doing it? All kinds of stuff. So the technique. Um, so yes, I mean, but I I find a lot of pleasure in it. Some people hate baking. That's okay. I love it. It's like science. I, you know, and if you've ever had one of my cakes, Heather's had my chocolate cake. Yeah. Yes. I'm overdue. I need to, you know, I need I need to get you a cake. I need to, you know, so I got another round of baking coming up. You're on the list.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Sounds good.

SPEAKER_03 26:30

Amanda, you you can be on the list too. Jackie, I don't know how to ship cakes, but if I figure it out, I'm out there. Other people do it. Why can't I?

SPEAKER_02 26:38

So um recently we released uh an intimacy guide. So that leads me to believe that intimacy is important to you, Raven. Can you do a talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Yeah, we can. Um, intimacy is very important to me. And the thing is, is that I didn't know that I didn't always know that it was important to me. Um, and I think there was a time where it was important to me, and I didn't realize that that's what it was. Um, and so, like, you know, your mileage may vary. Everybody has a different life. Um, my life has found me at 40 years old with two kids. And I got a seven and a 10-year-old. It was their last day of school today, so now I have a second grader and a fifth grader. I don't know where the time went. Um, they have activities, we got sports, we got all kinds of stuff. And so, like, there's a lot of energy that goes into making sure that everybody is where they're supposed to be. I gotta make sure like I know who is supposed to be where on a Tuesday night. And it's not just me. I mean, also, you know, also Dan too, my husband. So it's not like I'm, you know, but um, you know, at the end of the day, you crawl into bed and it's like choose options A, B, or, C. Like we can watch TV slash movie, uh, we can have sex, we can go to sleep, but we're not cramming all three of those things. Like, we need all day, like if we we need time if we want to make all of those things happen. And so it's like, you know, like it can be like a time where it's like, okay, are we watching TV? Well, you can watch TV and just you're watching TV, but you can also be intimate, like you can hold hands, you can cuddle, like you can have a drink, you can have a snack, like you know, that sort of thing. So, you know, I had to not lower my expectations, but I had to, I had to make my expectations more realistic. Um, we're not getting off, you know, four days a week. Like it's not like the days of old. Um, and so we have to find those moments of intimacy, not just in the evening, but throughout the day too, and throughout the week, because there can be whole days where we've barely said anything to each other. Um, you know, like, and it's it's wild, you know. If you're not careful, like you kind of look around and you're like, where'd my roommate go? And you're actually talking about your spouse, you know, you're like, but it, you know, but it can feel that way. Um, and then you throw into the mix um uh uh early perimenopause, which you know, your hormones are all jacked. Um so I didn't know I was gonna write this guide. Um, it was vibes. I know that's like, you know, um, that's this the least scientific, but that's what it was. Um, and as you guys recall, I don't know if you remember this, but this um, or Jackie, maybe you do, because I think I reached out to you. I was like, Jackie, I got an idea, vibes. And this was around um, I think it was like New Year's Eve or New Year's Eve Eve um of 2025, so just this past year. And so I was working on the draft, like like at the turn of the new year. I think I was working on this on New Year's Eve. I think I was sitting on the couch watching Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen, and I was like, I think that's what I was doing. And um, and it felt very therapeutic. Um, one of Heather's pieces of feedback was this doesn't sound like something you typically write. And she was right. And I didn't realize that I didn't really write it for, well, I wrote it for for me, um, I guess, but I really wrote it for other people too who, you know, were kind of experiencing the same thing. People who needed permission to just kind of enjoy intimacy and whatever that is for them without the pressure and expectation of sex. Um, and I think that's something I I think I learned a lot about myself, like going through the process of drafting this up. Because honestly, I didn't know if y'all were gonna like it. I thought you guys were gonna tell me it was like this is bullshit, Raven without you, but this is some bullshit, and we can never like it can never see the light of day. Um, but you know, like the more I got into it, like like the more I was like, oh, well, what if we do this and this is what I would do, like, you know. Um, and it forced me to slow down and really rethink. Um, you know, like how am I spending time with myself? You know, how am I spending time with with my husband? And even like, you know, and this is a different type of intimacy, but you can have like an intimate relationship with a friend or your or your kids. You have that emotional intimacy. So we're not we're not necessarily talking about sexual intimacy, but you know, vulnerable vulnerability, you know, and openness. So um, so I'm really happy you guys like the intimacy guy. Like I was nervous um because it's not nearly as um it's not like nearly as direct as I am in real life. It's much softer, it's got no edges, it's very easy to consume, and it's very much the antithesis of like how I normally talk about doing the sex. It's very much like if I could take you by the hand and tell you it's gonna be all right, you know, you can do this. You can use a vibrator if you want. And if you use a vibrator, you don't have to use it like that. I mean, um, and I think that that's very important um to remember. I think it's very important to remember to be gentle um with other people and yourself. So, what did you guys think of it? I mean, you know, like tell the people what like it's not AI.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

It's just it's soft and it's friendly, and it's like a warm hug or a good friend. And not to say that you're not like that at all, but you're you're very um passionate and very uh go go go all the time. And this this guide is not like that. This is so much gentler, and it truly is more intimate. It's like having a good friend, and it's just yeah, it's it's softer, and that's nice. And I think the world can be really harsh and you know, without expectations of performing, um, and it true intimacy isn't like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:06

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's it feels gentle and uh comfort comforting, but like also one of the things that you do in there is you do a lot of granting of permission to be gentle and comforting with yourself, and that is something that people struggle with a lot.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

That's what I was gonna say, just permission to slow down. They're not used to that permission to be in the present moment, um, you know, incorporating uh well, our products, right? And and how to use them in such a obviously pleasurable way, but just a present, present moment is just what keeps coming to mind. Present moment and slowing down to really get yourself to um pleasure and intimacy with yourself as well.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

I that makes me feel so good. Like, you know, well, yeah, there really is a soft, gentle person underneath that Brillo Cad Raven.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

Like, you know, like I think like the world is so focused on earning your keep, performing, doing well. And it's always that bar of something more to strive for rather than just you know, like Amanda was saying, permission to slow down, permission to receive.

SPEAKER_03 34:26

That's really hard for for me. Like I, you know, as y'all know, um, as y'all know, um, and I often like in talking to other people about how engirotics works, um, you know, I tell people like, you know, there's me and a number of ballasts in the boat with me that keep everything level. And so it's like on a very high level, like Heather has been the ballast for a long time. I I remember like some years ago, I don't know what it was. And even if I did, I wouldn't, I'm not gonna say any names, but I genuinely, genuinely do not remember. Something went wrong with like one of our vendors or something. I don't know, but they didn't do or they did something, they weren't so I don't remember. I get an email from Heather, and she's like, hey, this thing went wrong, and they didn't or didn't do what we said. Uh what do you think we should do? And I was like, tell go ahead and tell them to go to hell, tell them to go straight to hell and find the basement and go down the stairs and sit there. And Heather's like, okay, interesting. How about like, or we could try. Um, and you know the thing about like, I hate to say it, but I I feel like, you know, like my previous experience in the corporate world as a structural engineer, very heavy on the white, cisgender, heterosexual male, you know, like there are not a whole lot of people that look like me. Um, and even in the startup community, um, the investor community, the entrepreneurial community, there is like a lot of reasons to keep your armor on. And so I find myself like, you know, I got armor on all the time for a variety of reasons. And so it's like, I gotta give my permit myself permission to take that off. Um, and sometimes I don't even realize that I'm as, you know, like, you know, because I like I'm a straight up G, okay? Like I like my mom does not know what to do with me. She's out with my kids, otherwise, she'd probably have something to say in the chat. My mom will be like, Raven, why did you say that? I'm like, because you didn't raise no punk. Like, and my mom's like, Raven, I can't with you. Like, um, so writing the intimacy guide um was also a really good way of tapping into that piece of my personality. Um, because I'm not a drill sergeant. Like, you know, I am very gentle with my kids. I like to plant in my garden, like I like to bake, I like my quiet time. I really enjoy hugs from friends. Like, you know, it's not there are a lot of people who don't know, like they just know me from business, and that's it. And so they have an idea of what I must be like. And that facet is 100% true. That is a truth about me, but um, but I mean, there's a lot of other things that people don't know about me, but those don't get to really, you know. Yeah, you know, when you're when you're dealing with people in certain rooms and you're trying to get things done, and I'm not talking about y'all, that's not what I meant.

SPEAKER_02 37:38

Have you um um seen any changes in your life since writing the guide? Mm-hmm. Have you moved through your own life differently?

SPEAKER_03 37:48

Uh yeah. Um, so like one of the things that it really prompted me to think about was um what else is there out there for me to do that is going to bring me joy, but that's also gonna kind of bring me down out of the rafters? Like, you know, and and for me, like one of those things is is baking. That is true. Um, the thing with baking is that it's in the house, you know, and uh it's in my kitchen, which is fine, but what about outside of my house, you know, outside of my normal environment, because I do the vast majority of my work from here at home. So um, you know, so I spent a lot of time thinking um about that, what that looks like. And, you know, like I said, I'm 40. I turned 40 in March. I got a long way to go ahead of me, like, you know, like you know, statistically. Um, but what does that look like for me? Like, what does that look like for Enderotics? Like, what does that look like for all my other projects? Um, you know, when my kids are older, like, am I gonna be tied to my work so hard that I'm not gonna have time to like, you know, I don't know, they're 21, like, let's go to Vegas and learn how to shoot craps, things like that. I don't know. So yeah, it did give me pause, but it had to, you know, like I think, and and honestly, like, you know, I'm not, I've never written a book. People have told me that I should, um, you know, but that takes time, and you have to take time with the process, you have to take time to think it over and to edit and all that. So yeah, you know, it did it did force me to slow down a bit. And I really hope that people enjoy it um a lot. Like, I really hope that it helps somebody. So we'll we'll see.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

One of the things that really made me think about was um I'm in a long-term relationship, and I think that all of us are in some sort of a long-term relationship. And we're very good at sex to the goal, and not so much as sex as intimacy. So it made me really kind of reflect on that and think about how I could add that back into um our, I don't want to say routine because that makes it boring, but just our lives. And I also understand that with um we are both neurodivergent on the spectrum and have been going through the shit the last few years. So that affects things as well. We're really good at connecting with the sex, but maybe not so much with the intimacy. So I've I've been uh kind of working on that since reading it.

SPEAKER_03 40:29

Oh, yeah. Well, I'm glad that it prompted you to work on something. It's doing something positive. Um that gives me a lot of joy. Like, that's another thing that gives me pleasure. Like knowing that, like it just it gives me pleasure to know that other people, like, you know, through engirotics, like whether you're part of the team or your customer, that it adds to your life in a positive way. Because like that's not everybody's story. So I mean, honestly, like the fact that and we've been through a lot together as a team. We're going through a lot right now because gestures broadly, like, you know, we're going through a lot, it means a lot that you know that y'all are still here and that there's something positive, like, even though like the economy is not the best, there's still something positive there. So, so yeah, I I I really appreciate that. Um, I think that there's a lot of I think there's more intimacy in my life right now than sex, and that's not to say that I'm like, you know, like, oh my god, I'm like, but I mean it's the truth. Like, we're in a phase of life where, you know, it's like it's all logistics. I feel like my life is like dominated by logistics and schedule and who needs to be where and what time. And you know, we got this thing to go to and that thing to go to for the kids, and it's just, you know, it's we're in this era where it's like, you know, we're in the car driving to different things. Um, that doesn't leave a lot of room for um connection. So when there is sex, I don't want for it to be like mechanical or routine, you know, like just to get it done. Um, you know, it's like I I want like all the touching, I want like all the connection, um, you know, that sort of thing. So, but it's something you have to be intentional about, I think.

SPEAKER_02 42:18

And you have to be comfortable receiving it, which is something that I'm still not really good at. So that's another thing that I'm working on. And that's another thing I think that the intimacy guide helps with is helping you be more comfortable with receiving intimacy and receiving pleasure, and I guess receiving sex, even if Amanda, any comments on the blog that she wrote?

SPEAKER_03 42:42

You're like, no, y'all are doing great.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Like, you guys are. That's literally what I was about to say. You guys are doing great.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

I hope we're doing it justice. I'm really excited for part two of the blog. Um, do we know I'm excited about that? Do we know how this month's blog has done? Like, do we like do we have any metrics for it?

SPEAKER_02 43:06

Do we know I didn't pull up any metrics because I didn't think anybody on the that was listening would be interested in metrics, just about, you know, well, I'm I'm not sure if anybody, I mean, I don't know, like, hey, it's a really popular blog.

SPEAKER_03 43:17

The metrics say so. The engineers out there might be interested because we might be I just I just thought I'd ask. Um, you know, we'll look at it at a later date, but I always kind of wonder because it's like I think that this month's blog was just such a refreshing, um, uh refreshing topic to talk about. And I mean, it's like being a founder, being the founder of Engurotics, you know, there are a lot of people like, oh, you run a sex toy company. Like, it's all about, you know, I don't know if you've been seeing like my um like I'm done with people shit reels on the on the Engerotics Instagram page. But um, you know, the I the people well peop people in general have said some. Wild things to me. A lot of men have said some wild things to me about being a founder, running a sex toy company. So I had to like, you know, I don't know if you y'all are like, you know, the latest trend is like, you know, the saxophones getting louder. And um you have to be familiar with Boys in the Hood from the 90s because like that was like the musical score behind somebody getting shot in that movie. It was like, you know, the saxophones were getting louder and then tragedy struck. And so I was like, yeah, I mean, you know, somebody says something crazy to me about running a sex toy company. Yeah, the saxophones should get louder because it's more than that. Um, so the blog was like really, really good. And it just tells me like how far like we've come, like in our development, as you know, what we have to offer. I think that's great.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

And one of the things I think that the blog is really good at is talking about expecting one experience to fulfill every like emotional need. And what does it look like when one experience does is is when you're not relying on one experience to fill every emotional need? Like, what does that look like?

SPEAKER_03 45:16

I always have thoughts, but I'm gonna shut up because I talk a lot.

SPEAKER_00 45:21

Well, I was just gonna say that I think this blog, um, what makes it different is that I have personally not seen a blog like this before. Um, I have not really seen anyone talk about the differences between pleasure, intimacy, and sex. I think um people would understand it's easier to understand that pleasure is different than sex because we find pleasure in many things, like how we started off with, with, with nature, with food. You know, there's pleasure in way more things in life than just sexual intercourse. Um, but I really think the differences between intimacy and sex and really um working through what that looks like um can be pretty big for people because once they realize that they are different and that intimacy can be separate from sex, I think it can change things, like what Jackie was saying about you know, needing more intimacy in the sex and how it how they are both just really important, um, but different, and how they are typically portrayed together and sometimes confused as the same thing. Um, they are they are definitely different, and I think that this blog shows that and teaches people um on a pretty basic level of the differences between the three, why they're important, what makes them different, and how there is an intersection between all three, and you can have all three, but we can also mix and match, and we can have one, we can have two of the three. We don't have to have all three of the three all the time. Absolutely. You don't need another person for all three.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

You can experience all three by yourself.

SPEAKER_03 47:02

Absolutely. I I think my life, my my life when I was younger. Um, I mean, I didn't know that in my early 20s. I don't think you I don't think any of us did. Did it? Did you guys know that? Like, what would our lives have been like? Like, how would we have approached um sex and intimacy and pleasure if we would have had that understanding, you know, 10, 15, 20 years ago?

SPEAKER_00 47:27

You know, I remember when I was doing my study on cannabis and sex and how I was using the sexual response cycle on how cannabis would influence that, right? And I do remember having this like light bulb moment of like, oh my God, the sexual response cycle happens with or without another human being. Like you go through it on your own with masturbation, right? And I remember that being so just such a light bulb moment, and that's why I ended up integrating uh masturbation as well into my study, because at the end of the day, you know, it it's uh you don't need you don't need another person.

SPEAKER_03 48:12

That's true, and I feel like for women especially, like with the way that you know we're conditioned in society, it's like there really is like you know, since like a lot of people don't make this connection, they're like, you know, so we didn't know this like when we were younger, you know. So certainly, you know, men didn't know this, and you know, like even if it was common knowledge, it's probably something that would be last to reach, you know, young men, you know. And so I feel like for a lot of us women, we get into sexual relationships, um, confusing, conflating. I don't know which word I'm looking for, but you know what I'm going with sex and intimacy, and like they're one in the same when really they are separate. And so, like, sometimes we get into these relationships where we're not like really being like I mean, honored, I guess that's the word that I'm looking for. Like, rather than being honored, it's like we're being consumed. And you know, and and it's like there's like we're giving and we're doing the pleasure, we're doing the sex, like we're performing. And because that's like what we've seen in the movies, like this is like what you do, but you know, how do you put yourself in a position where you're actively receiving pleasure and intimacy in addition to the sex? And I think a lot of that comes from knowing oneself, you know, and like and that's why I wrote the the guide to be like, you know, I I'm very clear in that. Like, it's meant for you. You can bring a friend if you want, but it's really meant for you. Maybe go through it once on yourself and then invite a friend. Because, like, we are what what's that saying? Like, how do people say it? Um people love us at the level we accept. And I and I think that sex and intimacy are is no different, you know. So you go into you know the situation and um you know you enjoy a certain thing, and this is how I receive and this is what I enjoy. And that person's like, yeah, uh, no thanks. I'm not gonna do that, you know, like you then you're like, okay, I'm out. Like, you know, like and and and you know, vice versa, too.

SPEAKER_02 50:29

Um and the fact that it's okay to say, no, I don't want to do that, I'm out. Like I think women in particular have been conditioned to just like accept whatever comes their way because they're lucky to have it, and that is not at all the way it is. You're you're lucky to be able to say, nah, thanks, I'm out. Um, I don't want to do this, I don't want to be this person.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

I I feel I feel like we've got to do away with the soft no's. That's what I call them. And I was actually telling, you know, my husband this, you know, we went for a walk um just before lunchtime, and I was, you know, telling him about like how the indirectness of somebody who is saying no, like that's what they're saying, but they don't just come out and say no. They don't just come out and say, no, that's not my vibe. No, that doesn't work for me. Um, like, and I I don't know if that's like you know, soft no is the technical term, but it's like association.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

I have a blog brewing about this on my personal blog, and the title of it is I have trouble with the neurotypical no because I feel like it's a very neurotypical thing to not just say no, I don't want this or no, I don't like this. They are trying not to hurt feelings or whatever, but it's hurts my feelings more when I feel like you're lying to me. Do you know what I mean? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

By not being honest and saying no. I do know what you mean because it's like you don't know where you stand.

SPEAKER_02 51:51

You you don't know where you stand. So you never trust any answer because you don't know if it's gonna they really meant no when they said, Oh, I can't do that right now. Yeah. Or something like that. Just say no.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

Yeah, just just say that you're not you're not into it, you're not about that life. Like and you know, and and no is not like it's not unkind. It doesn't have to be unkind. You don't have to be like, no, fuck off. Like that's not what that is. Um, but I totally agree with you, and I completely understand what you're saying, because one of the things that I really value from the people that I love and that I'm close to and that I work with, because it's like this, like, you know, like, yeah, this is business and we work together, but I'm really relying on your honesty. Like, I'm really relying on that. So if y'all are like trying to spare my feelings and you know, I've been just like a total shit the whole week, and you're like, no, Raven, you're great. Like, no, I'm really like relying, I really lean heavily into the team to make this work. Um, for real, for real. Um, and so I totally agree. Like it, it, it really like, you know, maybe it does hurt my feelings. Like, I often find myself like being irritated. I'm like, why don't you just just say no? Like just just just say what just say what you mean. And they're like, oh, well, I actually meant well, just say that. Why didn't you just yeah, say the thing? You know, just say that. Um, you know, so I I totally agree with you. Um, and I always feel like cared for when somebody's honest with me on how to best care for them, how to best love them, how to best be intimate with them, that sort of thing. And and it transcends beyond the bedroom, right? So I mean, it's like if somebody's touching you sexually intimately in a way that you know, you're it's not doing anything for you, it's not giving you pleasure, or it's even hurting you, it's causing you pain. I mean, you you know, and you don't have to be mean about it at all. You're like, well, you know, like I kind of like, you know, when I'm by myself, I like to do a little bit of this. Here, let me show you. So, um, but yeah, I agree. Like, maybe it does hurt my feelings when people are. Is that what it's doing? Does it hurt my feelings? See, now I gotta go on this self-discovery today.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

Like as we're wrapping up, I'm gonna ask one more question, and that is either what's a small way you want to reconnect with yourself this week, or what's a small way that someone else can reconnect with themselves this week?

SPEAKER_00 54:33

I know something that I am working on is just slowing down. And I think by doing that, theoretically, maybe I would achieve, I would achieve uh maybe more of a reconnection with myself, or at least being able to be more in the present moment without striving uh or feeling like I always have to strive to do more, to do better, to do, you know, whatever. Um, so slowing down is my answer. That's a good answer.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Heather, you got anything? Oh wait, we can't hear you. Hold on. We're having a bit of a technical no, nothing. Oh man. Oh wait, now she now you're muted. Let's see if we can unwrite you. Okay. Uh oh, your mic isn't connected, it says.

SPEAKER_03 55:34

Damn.

unknown 55:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 55:36

If you type it into the chat, we can read it. We can read it for you. Heather says go. She did type in the chat. She says go on to Raven. Okay. Oh, yeah. Type it into the chat though. We'll read it. Um, well, for me. Wait, did can we hear you now, Heather? I don't know. Yeah. Okay, it's still Heather's turn.

SPEAKER_01 55:57

Oh, that's such a tough question, like, to wrap up with because it's so so deep. Um, but I think something to reconnect is just um sit with yourself in silence for just a little bit and see where your mind goes and see what needs attention.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

That's a great one. Because that's a that's a hard thing to do. It's scary. Yeah, we're so used to having music, television, something on in the background. Um, some of my most calm point parts of the day is when I'm sitting on the front porch with no other input other than the squirrels around me. Uh because my mind goes everywhere. And that's um, I've been um participating in this thing called writing battle the past few months where we get prompts and then we have to write a story of a certain length that uh go along with these prompts. And like the quiet time with the squirrels or the quiet time right before I fall asleep is where I normally get the best ideas or where I can work through these ideas best. I can't do it as well when I have all of the input happening to me. Like uh just turn off the input for a while is a really good way too.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

Yeah, 100%. Because it's so hard with everything just vying for your attention all the time that you don't have the mental bandwidth to focus on yourself.

SPEAKER_03 57:16

Absolutely. Uh for me, I think mine's really easy. Um, I'm going outside. I'm going outside. I'm gonna be outside the summer, by outside. I mean, like, yeah, the great outdoors, but like out of the house. Um, I want to link up with my friends. Um and I will tell you why. And I've been explaining this to a number of other people. The first several years of my parenting journey uh was I compare it to being underwater. You're there, you exist, but there's a barrier between you and the world above you. And so while you're underwater, everything's blurry, things are muffled, um, there's some form of viscosity, and you can't just move through life. You're kind of just like swimming through, and you're like, you know, it's like you have to focus on not drowning as best you can. And that was how it was for me when I had an infant and a toddler. And as my kids have gotten older, I'm like, wait a minute, I can go places and I can hang out with people. I have more time for me. I woke up from a nap the other day. This was over the holiday weekend, and I woke up from this nap and the house was quiet, and the kids were nowhere to be found. They were hanging out with their friends. Okay, my husband was on duty, he everything was fine. He was like, Yeah, you know, like they're out. And I'm like, oh, okay. So I very much like I want to do mimosas, I want to do brunch, I want to go go places, like, I want to do things with like just the ladies or like double date. Like, I'm out here to see some stuff. So if y'all want to subscribe to Ravens Hot Girl Summer 2026, uh, hit me up. Um I'm I'm trying to do some things this summer because um the older I get, the faster time flies.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

Yeah, it's June next week as well.

SPEAKER_00 59:07

Yeah.

unknown 59:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 59:09

Well, you know, I'm child free. I got no plans of besides having fun for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_03 59:14

So I was looking at your Instagram. I was like, okay, Amanda's trying to have a good time. All right. Oh yeah, that looks like you had so much fun at EDC. Like, like, man, if I like the kids get a little older, and like, you know, Amanda, you're trying to hop on a plane and go somewhere, like, listen.

SPEAKER_02 59:33

I'm always down. I'm always down.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

My hot girl clothes are always ready. I'm I'm here for it. I'm totally always pink, aren't they? So I'm trying to evolve, guys. I'm trying to evolve. Why? If pink's your jam, be pink.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:57

I know I got the whole I got I got the pink. I'm not worried.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

You still have to be yeah, live in what you love. Like I spent so much of my life not wearing horizontal stripes because I let somebody tell me that I shouldn't wear them. Uh, and they're my favorite thing. Like, I almost always have some sort of horror horizontal stripe on, and I'm never gonna stop doing that now that I've accepted it. I love stripes. There you go.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

Great. Yes, and they look great on you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:27

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

I'm a big fan. All right. I think we did the thing. Do we have anything else we would like to say?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:34

I would like to say um please continue to shop with Endurotics and subscribe to our YouTube channel and sign up for the newsletter and follow us on social. And by all means, uh spend how much is the intimacy guide? 20 bucks. Get your yeah, go and down, like buy it, and it's a downloadable thing. Um, you'll be able to download it immediately after purchase. Um, download it, and and it's not just reading it, you do it. You do the guide. It's a seven-day ritual. I don't think we ever said that. It's a seven-day ritual. Um, it's not just to be read, it's to be done. So please do the thing. And honestly, like a grown-up workbook, and I love that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:18

I love that framing. That is fantastic.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

I love workbooks. I would do workbooks all the time. I love them. Okay. Anyone else? And if if no, I will just wrap up. All right. Uh it turns out pleasure, intimacy, and sex are not the same thing. Uh, thanks for hanging out with us. Thanks for hanging out with us. Go drink some water, text your therapist back, and maybe buy yourself something nice from Enguratics.com. Bye, y'all. Bye.