You wanna keep flexibility, you wanna keep fluidity, you wanna have people feeling fresh and excited about the roles, and then too much shifts and people get confused and they get unmotivated and they say, why don't you gimme any freaking clarity? This is what happens so much when we don't strike the right balance between kind of creating those clear expectations, clear roles and responsibilities, and wanting people to be adaptable and flexible.

This is something that I see both with small business owners, founders, and also in big companies, because I think right now we really need our teams to be really fluid and flexible. Our team members. We kind of need those T-shaped roles where people can go really deep but also be general because there are priorities changing.

There are needs, like technologically, right? Changing, bringing on AI and really getting versed in, in more newer, modern technology. So we need people to do that. But the thing is, when we're dealing with people, they do need a sense of stability. So how do we strike that balance? Well, that's what we're gonna talk about today.

I'm Lee Garvin and this is the New Manager Playbook podcast. And I'm here to make managing your team the easiest part of your job because dealing with people is hard enough, as we always say. Now, today is a fun one because I, I'm bringing in and ask me anything question. So this is a question from a listener, and if you wanna submit a question, please do.

I will play it right here on the show. So you head to leah garvin.com/podcast. Scroll down about a third of the way, and then there's a place to actually record a question that you can ask, and then I'll play it on the show and then I'll answer it. So today this question comes from Stephanie, and let's hear the question now.

All right, so this is a great one, right? We want to have our team members flex and, and try out different roles. We wanna keep it fresh, keep it engaging, and we also know that with an evolving business, we need people to actually be able to wear many hats. And again, this is common both in small businesses and in a lot of corporate teams.

I know that back when I worked at Google, it was a place where, you know, I was in program management and team operations. But it was a place that I had to be ready to, you know, build out presentation content. I had to maybe plan events if it was needed. I had to get really strategic and, and support some of the team communications I had to do all sorts of things.

So it's not just a product of being in a small business. We're really needing folks to rise to the occasion and be able to, you know, flex and, and build skills in different areas and, and to be really adaptable. Now in small business and startups, it's kind of like the expectation. So really we wanna go all the way back to when we're hiring and being setting an expectation.

But before I dive into really what to do and share some more stories, I wanna talk about the challenges with this. Because I think that the sort of, for Stephanie's question as she was asking, we really wanna make sure that we don't, you know, lose that momentum and lose that energy around being able to deliver because we've shifted people too much.

And that is what I've seen in some of the agencies that I've worked in where it's small, everyone has to wear multiple hats, is that people start to feel like, I don't even know what my job is. People feel like I don't really know what my career path is. So they start getting frustrated. I've talked about it on the show that people ask, well, what's my title?

How do I know I'm working on the right things? And then there can be some frustration and confusion like, well, do I even have a path here? And so that's one of the issues that comes up, like feeling like, well, I like what I'm doing and I wanna be flexible, but I don't really, you know, know what this is all amounting to.

So that's from the team member side. Now, from your side as a manager, some of the, some of the challenges that can come up when, when roles are too flexible is that you don't have the best people in the job. You have people that can do a lot of things. And sure they're able to build skills, but you are trying to move fast and you wanna hire for like folks that can really hit the ground running.

You can actually sort of degrade that by having folks be too general so they're like mediocre at a bunch of stuff. They're pretty good at it, but they're not excellent at anything. And then that prevents you from being able to move the speed because they actually don't have the skills. And I'm a huge proponent of training people up, don't get me wrong.

But the challenge can be that you actually don't have anyone that can really take that leadership, really operate more of that strategic level. And just because someone wants to get involved in another space, it doesn't mean like you just change their job overnight. And so that's a real risk I wanna share, is that sometimes when roles are too flexible and too fluid in your team, people are like, well, shit, I don't wanna do this job anymore.

Let me do that one. And we let them do that, and then there's no one covering the job you hired them for. So the first tip that I have is make sure that your bases are covered. And I kind of talked through this. I wanna share an example again from, this is from an a, uh, marketing agency that I work with.

And they had folks that had to really flex into all different kinds of roles. And some of those meant that they would be really focusing deep on, on accounts and client relationships and, and really building that up. But then they also had, because of that, they had some creative competencies and they were.

They were really filling many different roles at a time, but then the challenge became, became as they were hiring more senior roles. The senior team members weren't that clear that, yeah, we actually have to do a lot of stuff. Right? There was an expectation that even in a leadership position, you are going very, very deep and you're actually operating in a very tactical level Now.

The team actually really did set these expectations in the hiring process. So my first of advice would've been, and, and to this team actually was, hey, because you need your leaders to really be deep in the weeds, implementing and, and, and, and being on the ground really tactical. They're not gonna have their own teams under them to be able to direct.

We really gotta set that expectation from the top. This is also advice that I gave, um, a, a coaching client that works in a tech startup, right? She's a vp. She wants to hire a team of directors, but they're gonna be individual contributor directors. So I said, Ooh, you gotta set that expectation with them that they're not gonna have a whole team under them.

I've seen this happen a lot. I saw when we'd bring in new folks into Google. From maybe McKinsey or other consulting firms, folks that SA said, well, if I'm really senior, I should have a team of, like an army of people executing on my ideas. And right now that's not really the case. So that's something I also want to flag is that if you are bringing someone in at a senior level, I.

And they're not gonna have a team supporting them. That's an expectation. It's really important to set in the hiring, in the conversations around, Hey, this is how, this is how this role's structured. This is the support you'll have. We don't have head, we don't actually have a roadmap to be hiring headcount under you or getting freelancers or whatever.

So what is your comfort level with that? What are the ways in which you, you know, operate in that situation? Right? So you don't say, is that okay? Because they'll say yes to get the job and then it won't be okay. You actually wanna tease out in that interview process, you know, what, what are situations when you've been, you know, what are examples of when you've been in this situation, you know, what's your comfort level with that?

Um. What are ideas that you have in order to really grow the role, even, even without that team under you, right? Things like that. So you get a sense of are they just agreeing to something because they want the job, or are they really thinking about how that will look when they get in the role? So that is the actual cornerstone of setting expectations around the fluidity, around having to go deep.

Is that we wanna set that even before someone starts, because a lot of us find, you know, we wanna work in this company. We think the role's interesting. So we're like, yeah, sure. It'll be fine. And then it's not really fine. The same thing comes up in Stephanie's question when we want people to be able to shift around and try many roles, that's something you really wanna establish before someone starts.

And saying, Hey, we run these two clinics. We are, you know, a lot of folks, we kind of have a rotation. You do one role for a while and you sort of build up your skills and have some successes here, and then you're gonna try this out. Um, what, what are examples of what times you've done that in the past? Um, what excites you about that?

What are ways in which you will set yourself up for success with that model? Right. So you're getting them bought in really early. Because the alternative is they go, whoa, like I'm bait and switched. You pulled the rug out from under me. I didn't sign up for this. And you get this challenge that you have folks that didn't really know what they're signing up for.

So the expectation is set from the hiring to the onboarding to the day-to-day, all the way through. And then the last thing I wanna say is we really, really wanna make sure, even though folks are shifting roles and they're flexible and they're fluid, they do have clarity around, you know, what is their job description in this moment.

What are their key responsibilities? It doesn't have to be like a five page or three page, even a one page job description, but what are like the top three to five responsibilities that they're really owning, and then how do you measure success in that? I. Right, because we are in a day where it's not just getting that job done.

That's not success. It's probably, you know, and I actually encourage folks, it's about going above and beyond. How do you excel in this role? What does it mean to exceed expectations? What are the ways we're measuring success? What does that person's KPIs or smart goals or, or you know, whatever it looks like, metrics for that person to really know, okay, this is the way that I do a good job.

And then also helping that person see like, here's the transferable skills that are gonna help set me up, but also these are the things that are gonna actually shift when I move into a different role. And then the last thing, I know I said last thing, but I had to say one more thing. When you actually shift someone into new responsibilities, it's important to really draw that line of like, Hey, are they doing both things now?

Are they actually winding down one focus and starting another one? Is this really a new job? Because that's gonna get their head in the space of like really being able to focus. I think the biggest challenge that can show up when we have folks that are just kind of picking up whatever task is here and there.

Is, it's very similar to what I said, like when you don't have folks that are really experts, you just have people kinda like generally hopping from one fire to the next, and we don't really get a ton of sense of completion there. So saying, Hey, in this new role, in this rotation, in this new focus, in this quarter, these are the key priorities.

Here's how we're measuring success. Like, do you have everything you need? What can I do to support that? And continuing to establish that, because even when someone says I wanna have more, you know, I, I like that it's fresh and it's exciting. My role's always changing. Yeah, that's all great, like day one, day two.

But when we don't really know how to be successful in that, then we just kind of start guessing at it. And you as a leader, you're just not getting that output you need. You're not getting that productivity you need. And so for you, thinking about the question, how can I be more clear? How can I set folks up?

How can I spell out this out upfront? And then what check-ins can I have to make sure it's going well? You know, setting expectations is not a one and done, and you are completely, and you're right. In fact, encourage to check in on this and say, Hey, we all, we're all kind of picking up tasks and different things here.

We're all in this together. Let's make sure this is working. Let's have a monthly check-in and saying, what's going well? What do we wanna improve? What are some of the things we wanna try next time? Right? And really getting in that flow of, if you're gonna wanna have flexibility and fluidity, you actually have to dial up the communication.

And I know again, we have, there's, it's like nobody wants to be in too many meetings. No one wants to be tracking too many things in too much depth. But in the absence of that, we're all just kind of guessing. So that's why a regular meeting of some kind of review this and a regular tracking system is gonna help you just make sure everyone's on the same page.

And I think, again, the expectation right now is that people in general like flexible and fluid and adaptable in a sense, but we have to say what that looks like in your specific company or environment. All right. So I know this is a big one, but I think there's a lot of real seeds planted today. And if you wanna dive into any of this deeper, this is really the kind of stuff that I cover with my ops playbook program and some of my business consulting.

So I would love to support, answer any questions, and of course, if you have a question, just like Stephanie shared, head to leah garvin.com/podcast, record a question and I will play it and answer in the show. It is so much fun to hear from you listeners. I love, love being able to answer specific questions and then bringing it to more of you through like, okay, here's some of the parallels where this takes shape.

So I cannot wait to hear more of your questions. And as always, if you need support, head to hello@leahgarman.com and let me know what you need. See you next time.