Staying High Agency in Challenging Times: A Leadership Masterclass with Shelmina Abji, Author of 'Show Your Worth'

Today's episode is an exploration of empowerment, leadership, and the transformative power of intentionality in today’s hyper polarized world. Leigh's guest today is a truly inspirational leader - the incomparable Shelmina Abji.  Shelmina’s journey from humble beginnings in Tanzania to becoming a top executive at IBM serves as a beacon for aspiring leaders everywhere, as does her best-selling book Show Your Worth.  Leigh and Shelmina dive into the complexities of our dynamic world, and talk about how to stay in your ‘power quotient’ – a place of high agency and intention regardless of the circumstances that work, life, or elections bring. They also discuss how women at all stages of their careers can literally 'show their worth' and navigate the complexities of lingering gender disparities in the workplace. This is a fantastic episode – enjoy!  

Transcript

0:01

Hello and welcome to the. Space in between podcast. I'm your host Lee Morgan. Again, this podcast is for listeners who are fed up. Up with the hyperpolarized nature of the world today. And who crave. Craves spaces where current events can be discussed in construct. enlightening and delightful ways. Let's get.

Leigh Morgan: 0:31

It is certainly an understatement to say that there is a lot of dynamism in the world today, politically, culturally, and there's lots of uncertainty in the business and public sectors. Recent opinion polls bear this out. A majority of folks surveyed say that they experience the world as more polarized than ever. Sometimes it can feel head spinning. I. Despite the uncertainty, there is still a lot of great things happening in the world. Today. We're going to focus on what is going right and the ways that women leaders can have increasing influence and power in organizations and at all stages of their careers. My guest today, Sheina Abgi, has a lot to say about all of this and about the unique contributions that women leaders can bring to both building high performing organizations and also helping society navigate these turbulent times. So I'm really excited that Shein is here because she has been a trailblazer her entire life. We'll hear about her inspiring journey from humble beginnings in Tanzania to her last role as vice president at IBM, where at the time. She was the highest ranking woman of color executive in that iconic company. Her current work centers on advocacy for gender equality. She's also a philanthropist, and notably, she's the author of a bestselling book called Show Your Worth. Eight Intentional Strategies for Women to Emerge As Leaders At Work. It's a fantastic book, and we're gonna talk a bit about our tips and her advice for us and how that can be applied in many settings. Shelmina, thank you for your work and helping many of us learn to lead and manage better. And also, like all of my guests, I love that you share passion for bringing people together across divides that keep us apart. And so I'm so glad to have you here. Welcome to the Space in Between podcast.

Shelmina Abji: 2:49

Well, thank you Lee. It is my honor to be here. I am a huge fan of you and the work you do. So when you asked me if I could be on your podcast, I jumped enthusiastically and said yes. So thank you for having me.

Leigh Morgan: 3:03

Wonderful. I I love the shared joy we have about being in this space together. I shared a little bit about your impressive career and my opening remarks. What else do you want listeners to know about your work in the world and why helping women in their careers is such a passion for you?

Shelmina Abji: 3:23

Yes, you know, you opened this very well, that we live in uncertain times. Frankly, we have lived in uncertain times. For all of our lives. If you think about it, we do not control. We have no idea what's really going to happen. And so I feel very, very strongly that we need to have representation, that we need to have gender equality in leadership roles. And the reason is I want representation. I want women to be in every room where decisions are made. And you know, this Lee, we have a broken rung starting at the very first leadership role. And that problem gets compounded because then the pipeline is broken. Women get burnt out, women leave their careers. And so what I want to do is I want to ensure that we are not throwing in the towel. In fact, especially now, when things are difficult, when the going gets tough. The tough have to get going. We don't give up. We double down on ensuring that we are rising to the top levels of our fields to ensure that not only are we present in every room where decisions are made, but we are also bringing along other women and ensuring that pipeline is solid.

Leigh Morgan: 4:55

I love your passion as you speak it. It just jumps through and, I'm curious about your family culture and your book. In our conversations, you've talked about the role of your mother as a role model for you growing up, and is this passion for helping others. And you do this, you express that in many ways. one important way is by helping other women, but this passion you have for giving back, for sharing, is that something you learned growing up or was it something that you evolved into?

Shelmina Abji: 5:31

It is both. It's both Lee, my mom, w. Was my shero. My mom had fourth grade education and she used to cook for people and sold food on the street to ensure that we had food to eat. And so watching that, she was my first inspiration to go to college and to lift our family out of poverty. And she was also on her deathbed. I was very fortunate to be there holding her hand in prayer. And when I saw that and I realized how fleeting life is and what remains after you are gone is what you have left behind. And I wouldn't be successful without my mother. I wouldn't even be here without my, my mother. but really it's because of her. she trusted me at the age of 15. To leave home to pursue my dream of obtaining a college degree, Lee, we didn't even own a phone. She didn't have a way to contact me. I didn't have a way to contact her, but she supported me and the fact that she supported me and my decision, I felt that I could do this because my mom thinks I can do it right. So it started there. It also, when she passed away, it was reinforced, but I will also have to tell you that that's not the only reason I. Have faced so many internal and external barriers in my career. However, I've always had people that took a chance on me. I've had people that mentored me, that guided me, that coached me, that saw potential in me. And so I got to a point where it was about 10 years ago where I felt that I need to make others successful. And for me, because I'm a woman, because my mom played such a strong role, granted that my mentors and my sponsors were not women. My, my, one of the mentors was especially the one who told me she saw potential in me that got me going. Susan Whitney is a woman. However, there were also men that helped me, but because I'm a woman and because I was on the board of United Nations Foundation, girl up at the time, we were focused on. Ensuring young women became leaders. I was very aware of the statistics, the dire statistics of the lack of women in leadership roles. So I decided that I was going to make a few women successful, basically to pay back by paying forward. it was just one thing I wanted to do, but just as my career unfolded, Lee, every level of success opened up more possibilities. That's how my, what I call my second career after I left IBM and my career of helping other women become successful. That also unfolded with every success. When I saw. How my insights were changing women's career trajectories. And many of these women, Lee, were refugees, immigrants, first generation college graduates, single mothers, working mothers. they saw them in me and no matter where I mentored and where I spoke, whether it was in the United States, in New York, or in Seattle or in Nairobi, Kenya or in India or in Brazil, I learned that we women have shared experiences. We are wired a certain way, and that wiring was not serving us. Climb the corporate ladder. Right? And so it, it then blossomed into me writing a book because as more women benefited from my mentoring, the word got around and I started getting more requests and obviously. I can't scale myself. There is

Leigh Morgan: 9:51

can't clone yourself yet. No cloning yet.

Shelmina Abji: 9:54

no cloning yet. And every time I said no to them, it hurt because if people wouldn't have said yes to mentoring me, I wouldn't have achieved success. So to say no to someone was very personal. But then I decided if I wrote a book based on all the learnings, all my learnings of talking to women, where do we struggle? and frankly, I, I struggled with all of them. I saw women were struggling with what I had struggled with 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago. So that's what informed the book. And then the book became a bestseller and the speaking engagements went through the roof and then along came AI. And now it's being used by women in 65 countries, and we are just starting.

Leigh Morgan: 10:46

that's exciting. That's the show show Your worth.ai app. And a few observations I had. You know, I read a lot of books on management and careers, and many are good, not all. Yours is just special. And the reason it really feels special to me, shamina, is it's personal. You are vulnerable, you share your stories. And look, you had an amazingly successful career trajectory, right? And you talk about that, about what you did and how that helped your career, which was meaningful to you for the purpose and goals that you set for you and your family. But you also talk about the times when you felt shy or uncertain to speak up or. You missed your numbers in a quarter, right? Guess what? We all do that and we all have feelings about it. And so what struck me was you. You don't just talk about you know what to do, you share in a very personal, authentic, and vulnerable way. And then you say, okay, what to do? But then you say how to do it. Like how do you overcome the fear? How do you have cultivate self-awareness so that you can be intentional when you want to have balance or create more value or build your brand out. And how did you come to that insight that talking about how would be really powerful with your audience?

Shelmina Abji: 12:23

yeah, yeah. I wish I could tell you I was the genius behind that. However, first of all, It is very personal. I do write about my journey and I had to learn all of this, and that's why I can teach it is because I learned all this. Second of all, when I was mentoring all these women, women know what they need to do. You know, they've been already told, you have to show up with confidence, you have to build your competency, you have to build your leadership brand. But they would almost always ask me, yes, we know what to do, but can you tell us how can we get that done? And so it was really based on them asking me, show me how. That's why I structured the book the way it's structured.

Leigh Morgan: 13:14

Yes, and that comes through you heard. Request for that. And then you actually had this experience through your career. so the way you did that I think is really remarkable. I really encourage all listeners, if you haven't get the book, show your worth. It's really incredible. and so I have a question to you about the unique challenges that leaders face today that might be different than five or 10 years ago. And I, I, you may disagree or if, if there is a difference, that's what I'm wanting to know. So what are the unique challenges that leaders face that are different than a decade ago? And, and then what's the gender lens there? Are there unique, challenges that women leaders face today?

Shelmina Abji: 13:56

Yeah, so you know, I, it is my personal opinion that we have always had challenges. The world is never going to be. The way we wish it to be. People are never going to be exactly the way we want them to be. and it shows up in different ways, but the fact is that we are all different. The fact is that there will be things about our workplace that we like and there will be things we don't like. There will be people that we get along with easily and there will be people that we don't get along with easily and. Because we can't control the externals. We, I teach women, and this is the gender base, is we can control our response to the situation. Because here's the thing, Lee, the situation does not define us. People don't get to define us. Our response defines us, and that's why you used the word self-awareness earlier, that self-awareness as well as the awareness of others around you, the situation, the people, really allows you to make informed decision. It allows you to show up, to show your worth. And I have actually coined a term which has been the foundation of my success. It's called Your Power Quotient.

Leigh Morgan: 15:23

I love that term. It's the first thing I highlighted. I have it in your book. I have a a little tab. Talk to us about that and why it's important.

Shelmina Abji: 15:33

Yeah. So what I learned, Lee, is we have it in our power if we choose to exercise it, to pick our response intentionally and strategically. And so here's how it works, right? You and I both know this, when people are great to work with, when the situation is great, the economy is expanding, the job market is growing, it's very easy to show up as a leader and shine. But really the test is when things are not going your way, how are you going to show up? When people are not behaving the way you want them to behave? How are you going to show up? And so your power quotient is your ability to intentionally pick an empowering response to a disempowering stimulus. And I'm gonna repeat this. You have it in your power to pick an empowering response to a disempowering stimulus. So when someone does not behave the way you want them to behave, are you also going to misbehave and give your power away to them? Or are you going to take a breath? Granted, it upsets us and our natural inclination is to fight or flight. Neither one of them are good. And so when this voice in your head says, how dare him, you can say, okay, I can't control him, but I am going to educate him on my worth. So you take a deep breath and you behave and respond in a way that shows your worth, which is not dependent on the situation or the other person.

Leigh Morgan: 17:22

That, that practice that you described picking an empowering response to a. Disempowering stimulus. That takes a lot of practice. So I love the notion, that you've described, and sometimes when I'm at my best, I do have a high power quotient. I'm high agency and I have that self-awareness to choose an empowered response. And there's times, even this week, you know, despite a lot of practice on my part where I didn't feel quite that empowered, a lower power quotient, if you would say, and I would guess that listeners share a little bit of a mix. And I was struck by a comment you said, which was that two people misbehaving, or two people coming from a disempowered place. That's bad, right? And so maybe one strategy is cultivating a high power eq. And another strategy is self-awareness to know when you don't feel that high power eq, that's a good time not to step in. It's might be a time to actually settle yourself. And I wondered if you have any wisdom to share on that topic.

Shelmina Abji: 18:37

So first of all, I want you to know that even though I have been practicing my power quotient for over 40 years, there are still times when the emotions are so high and the environment is so chaotic, and I am so angry that I slip. So the key to remember is we seek progress, not perfection. Because we aren't perfect and when we slip, we have to forgive ourselves. We have to be kind to ourselves and we have to learn from that situation. So you can role play the situation in your head one more time and see yourself reacting instead. Role play and respond. And over time it does get better. But we will never be perfect. We will never be perfect. It's okay. It's okay. So let me show, share a, trick with you, right? and the trick is to recognize that we have voices in our heads. And these voices, we actually can govern them. We are not our voices, we are not our emotion. We are much higher than all of that. and so to understand that we can govern our voices is key number one. Key number two is there will be multiple voices. And I all often tell women that courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is doing what you must do even though you are afraid. So the conflicting voices can. Hey, they can be there in your head. But when you know what you stand for, when you know what your definition of success is, when you know how you want to come across, when you know which relationships you want to build and deepen, that informs your behavior. So first and foremost, knowing what you stand for, knowing what your definition of success is. And that's why I start the first chapter with intentionally like sit down, do some introspection, and intentionally define what success means to you, because that becomes your compass every time you are bent at a shake. You can stop and remember who you are, what you stand for, what success means to you, and that will enable you in that split second to make a decision. Which voice in your head do you want to give credence to

Leigh Morgan: 21:24

That is, that's resonates so deeply with me. And I love what you're saying about intentionality and in your book and that you describe eight strategies. It always starts with intentional, you know, intentional attention, intentional balance. So this is a very powerful word and it's a very em empowering word, right? Which gets back to this power quotient, concept. The other piece that strikes me when you were talking about seek progress and not perfection, there's an element of grace in that statement to me. And I say grace for ourselves, to give ourselves grace, that we're not perfect, that we aren't always these evolved, human beings who can self-regulate and always come from a power cue, a high power cue, place and to, that's a powerful thing, a gift to give ourselves. And the more we can give that to ourselves, I think that increases our capacity

Shelmina Abji: 22:25

it does.

Leigh Morgan: 22:25

to give that to others.

Shelmina Abji: 22:28

It sure does. I love that. So, you know, in my book, as you notice, Lee, I ask readers to have what I call the weekly reflection time. I. I call it reflection and celebration because we women are experts at beating ourselves up for the mistakes we've made, and I want everyone to remember that you cannot belittle yourself to greatness. I. You cannot belittle yourself to greatness. And so what I ask women to do, and this is what I call a, what I mentioned, we are wired a certain way. We are wired to be hard on ourselves. We are wired to dwell on our mistakes. And we are not wired to be kind to ourselves, to be compassionate with ourselves, to celebrate ourselves. And so I'm asking you to rewire yourself. Yes. You wanna look back and yes, you want to learn from your mistakes and yes, you want to course correct. And more importantly, a bigger yes to celebrating your wins because that creates this. Confident mindset. It creates this success mindset. It actually energizes you to pursue your success week after week after week, instead of when you beat yourself up, you are depleting your energy. This is why so many women are getting burnt out. They are stepping outside the leadership pipeline. They are frustrated, they're tired, and when you are depleted of your energy, then you can't use your power quotient as well as you possibly could. And so this all works together, right? If you nourish yourself in the morning, if you sleep well at night, if you have a morning routine, you energize yourself, you fill yourself up with joy, then your ability to use your power quotient gets better. But if you are beating yourself up and you are just running from one task to another and you are not taking care of yourself, and you are not celebrating your small wins, then your ability to use your power quotient actually goes down. So when you notice that you, your ability to use your power quotient is actually declining. Stop and ask yourself, have I filled myself up? Have I been kind to me? Have I been compassionate to me? Have I celebrated my success? And I tell women that you should be proud of yourself just to be on this journey. You are at least not on autopilot,

Leigh Morgan: 25:07

Yeah, it's like you're, you're in the game. You've decided to, to, to actually, I'm a former athlete. Maybe I still a, uh, aspiring athlete, but so these athletic metaphors, it's like you actually decided to step up to home plate and, try to hit, to try to get a hit, you know? And, and it's easy not to because that can be really scary if it's a new sport to you or you don't feel very skilled, and yet you're, you're stepping up and I think that's what you're, I. Encouraging us to do so. This notion of self-awareness, grace to oneself, filling up our own cups. And I think this really is a key, it's very key for those of us in organizational settings. I think it's relevant at any stage of our career. Would, would you agree?

Shelmina Abji: 25:55

End life and, and let's add, celebrating your wins, recognizing that you did something right instead of focusing on what went wrong.

Leigh Morgan: 26:11

So celebrating the wins, I'd like to explore that a little bit. One theme in your book that comes out, and I I mentioned this earlier, is, one, how authentic your story is and how you're able to share it of humble beginnings. Lots of challenges, lots of barriers. You were the first in many rooms for a long, long time, and. Incredibly successful. And then you put your hands out and down and have been helping other women up. And I know not just women, but that's a, a clear focus for you. you have an ability also to tell stories. Well, and I just described why your story in your book is so compelling to me and many others. There's a sense of authenticity, humbleness that you have, and also confidence. So can you talk about the role of storytelling in being an effective leader? How does that show up? You talk about your brand and your book, but say a little bit. You're an exceptional storyteller. I think you help other women tell stories.

Shelmina Abji: 27:18

All right, so let's start with the fact that I was this young woman who, when I started my career, I was comparing myself to others who are more educated, who came from better socioeconomic environment, who are more experienced. And I'm the one who had decided that my ideas won't matter, that everything I know they already know, and then some. And so I was afraid to speak up. So I want people to know that this is a learned skill. The way I speak today and the way I tell stories today is not where I started. It's not where I started. So I had to le, I had to learn how to communicate, and at that time, I didn't think of it as storytelling at that time, I just thought of it as stating my ideas in a way that people would. Listen to it in a way that it would land well with the audience. And I think that training, because I, not only was I afraid to speak up, Lee, I used to ramble. I used to let people interrupt me when I spoke. I mean, that's where I started. Right. And this is all written in the book. I also have a TEDx talk about overcoming your fear of speaking up. However, I was very aware that in order for me to be heard, I had to speak in a way that the audience would understand. I. So it was not about my ability to speak, it was more about how does it land so they can understand what I am saying. And then because I moved into sales, you, this is training, right? You are working with clients. You, if you are talking to the C-suite, you use a different language. If you're talking to a technical person, you use a different language. And so you become very aware of your audience and you become very aware of how do I communicate? This is not about storytelling. This is about how do I communicate in order for them to understand what I have to say, right? And so when the focus is on your audience, it helps you better communicate. And then once I moved into leadership roles, one of your big guest role as a leader is to inspire and motivate your team. And the best way to inspire and motivate someone is through storytelling, is through aligning everyone on the same goal, on the same mission. And why Helping them understand not just what we need to get done, but also why. it evolved over time, right? And I got better over time. And this is a skill that everyone can learn. You don't, leadership, all leadership skills is not something you are born with. It is a skill. And there's a difference between a strength that is innate and a skill that can be learned. And so storytelling, communication, leadership skills. Are skills that can be learned. And that's why when I speak with women who don't see them in leadership roles because they don't see anyone that looks like them, that talks like them in leadership roles. I, I tell them, you have the capacity to become a leader because leadership is not a title. You are not born with those skills. You learn those skills and storytelling is one of them.

Leigh Morgan: 30:56

yeah, that is, I love that you described the utility, the practical utility of being able to tell your story. You know, storytelling, we, we don't usually use that word in business unless you're maybe in the marketing department, maybe in sales you would know a lot more than I would, but, the utility of that for being effective in your role. Because if you are trying to sell something and you have a customer who's saying, I'm not paying that for your service, you are looking to find a way to bridge that difference and, and speaking in an authentic, compelling way. and you're just emphasizing for all of us that these are skills that anyone can learn when you apply yourself intentionally. I think that's what you would say.

Shelmina Abji: 31:43

Yes, yes.

Leigh Morgan: 31:45

Yeah. Well, one, another question I have for you is, you know, we've talked about navigating, differences in the workplace and you, you had a lot of examples in your book and you've shared some here where I. to, you had to deal with, you were the only person with in the room who was a woman, woman of color, or not from the same school as other people. And today there's a lot of controversy about diversity, equity, and inclusion. And as a woman, woman of color, executive at the highest echelons, you had to deal with being different a lot. I would guess that you had to find ways to assimilate to the dominant culture to have influence partly through the storytelling, but you also had to find ways not to lose your unique identity, your unique style, and your unique insights.

Shelmina Abji: 32:39

yes.

Leigh Morgan: 32:40

lessons learned can you share that might help listeners navigate similar dilemmas?

Shelmina Abji: 32:48

Yes, yes. the first thing I'd like to state is your relationship with people is a mirror to your relationship with yourself. And I will tell you a, short story, which is in my book, Lee. When I started my career, as you know, I was the only woman of color in an organization of 2000 engineers. I was so fixated on our external differences because what I could see was how well they dressed up, how well they spoke English, what colleges they went to, uh, masters, PhDs. I was so fixated on all those things that I could see, which were different. That, I got along with people, but I never really established a connection. I never really had relationships until I realized that I had value to contribute towards the success of our organization, towards the success of our team. So the first hurdle was within me, is me recognizing that my ideas do matter and that there is value I can bring to the table that will contribute towards the success of our project, our organization, our team. And then all of a sudden it struck to me that hey, we are all working towards making our team successful, making our organization successful, making our project successful. And so we were aligned on that. We had a similar mission, and instead of focusing on the external and the visible differences, I started focusing on where we were aligned. And that enabled me to start making authentic connections, enabled me to form deeper relationships. And so I find in today's world, and frankly, it, it was true even then. It is very easy to focus on external differences. I can look at you today and see how different we are, but as soon as we took a walk and we started understanding each other at our core, we are so similar, so aligned. So now I have a choice. I have a choice. Am I going to focus on the differences with Lee or am I gonna focus on so many similarities we have? So we as human beings are so aligned. we cut ourselves open. You are at Fred Hutch. You don't have a different doctor for a white woman or a black woman. Or a black man, or, right. because we, there are so many things about us that are similar and if we can find some common ground, it doesn't have to be completely, but if we can find some common ground, we can start listening to each other, understanding each other. Because if we're focused on the, the few externally visible differences, we will never be able to even listen to us. We will never be able to even listen to each other because we have already formed opinions and we have a closed mindset and we will only be listening to re react. Instead of being open and give them the benefit of the doubt and see where we can come together.

Leigh Morgan: 36:29

That's a very powerful way to think about connecting across dimensions of difference. It starts with a high power quotient, right? And the story you said of you were focused on the differences and comparing yourself, and then somehow you went inwards, a locus of control and then focused on where's the common ground and what are my uniques? I think that's a very powerful story. And so a question for you. I mentioned in my introduction, we're in dynamic times and I agree with you, we're always in di dynamic times, right? There's always something going on. you know, we are finding in, you know, opinion polls that in the US at least, people perceive US to be more polarized than ever before. Right? So perception is, becomes the reality there. And we, we see a proliferation of silos based on identity or politics, whatever that mix is. And so how can. We apply this approach that you've described, right? Focusing on what you can control, bridging gaps. How can we apply that when we, we have people who are really set in stone about a policy decision or who you voted for. How? How do you think about that?

Shelmina Abji: 37:53

early in my career, I read a leadership book that. Was so impactful. It's a book called Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. And you're nodding, you probably read it too. Stephen Covey explained something that is simple, yet profound, and when I started truly understanding in internalizing that it made me so much more impactful. And so let me share that with you. He said, each one of us have a sphere of influence. Each one of us have a sphere of influence and there is a much larger sphere of concern. There are so many things outside of our sphere of influence that is within our sphere of concern. However, any energy or attention I. You give to something that is outside your sphere of influence. You are taking the time away on the things you can control and you can influence. So if you understand what you can influence and what's, yes, it's my circle of concern, but there is nothing I can do about it. I can spend as much time as I want, but things are not going to change. So instead, let me focus on what I can influence and then increase that sphere of influence out.

Leigh Morgan: 39:22

You know what I take from that and I have read Covey's work and thank you for reminding me that that's a very powerful frame framework, the antidote to uncertainty. Is certainty,

Shelmina Abji: 39:35

Yeah, yeah.

Leigh Morgan: 39:36

easy to say, hard to do. But this framing I think is actually very helpful because there have been times in the last year, you know, I founded this podcast, started it because I was really tired of what felt like the caustic blame and shame nature of public discourse about leadership or about, current events, policy issues. So here we are having a conversation, tapping your lessons learned and seeing how we can apply that in multiple settings, but certainty. And so when we or you or listeners feel like the world's out of control, there's a lot of chaos. You're concerned about, you know, what's happening in the Middle East, you're concerned about, immigration, whatever side you're on, right? Or sides plural. Focusing on what you can control is lending a bit of certainty amidst. A meta environment that literally can feel a little turbulent. It does feel a little turbulent. We know that people are having that experience. So I think that's a very powerful framing and find things that feel certain to you and using your sphere of influence. I've done this myself and with some clients and with my teams just taking a piece of paper and write control in one column, influence in the other. And it's remarkable how that little task, which just builds on what Covey said, and I'm sure he built on other people, how powerful that can

Shelmina Abji: 41:07

It is so powerful and you know, this takes me back to why I do what I do. I deeply feel that if women are represented in every room where these or any decisions are made, our world would be different. And that's why the work you are doing, that's why the work I am doing to get more women into leadership roles is even more critical today than it ever was because we are seeing, we are seeing the impact of not having women and not having representation in the rooms where decisions are made globally.

Leigh Morgan: 41:42

Well said. I have a really amazing colleague and friend that is a senior partner for the consulting firm, McKinsey here. She's actually in the International Women's Forum here in Seattle, which you and I are a part of. And she shared, and I think you, you were at this presentation that there hasn't been, there's been movement around. Getting more women, more people of color in leadership circles, there's movement and it's not enough. Right.

Shelmina Abji: 42:08

not only not enough, actually right now it's headed in the wrong direction, Lee,

Leigh Morgan: 42:12

now Yes,

Shelmina Abji: 42:14

it's headed in the wrong direction and and we cannot let that happen. We cannot let that happen.

Leigh Morgan: 42:22

Well, we are signing up to give better options to that. as we begin wrapping up our time, I always ask my guests, two questions. But for you, there's, you're such an optimistic can-do kind of person, where do you feel most bolstered, most inspired? Where are the by women that you work with? Where are those bright spots that you wanna share?

Shelmina Abji: 42:54

Yeah. You know what really makes me feel bolstered is when I'm working with a woman or right after I give a talk someone will come to me with tears in their eyes, in front of all these people because they have been so impacted. And when they tell me that I was undermining myself, I was underestimating my worth until I heard you. And today I commit to you and to myself. I am going to show up to work every single day and show my worth. So I feel like that I have been able to influence someone to realize their potential and to go seize that potential. I want to be the person that puts others on a ledge, that makes others successful. And when I see that, when I feel that it really bolsters it, it confirms you. You know, Lee, I, for a few years now, I have had this, this feeling that I was created to do this work. That every experience in my life, the good, the bad, the ugly, and I've had my share of it all were given to me so I could do this work. And so when something like that happens, it's a reinforcement that. This is what I was created to do, and when I am able to make that kind of difference in somebody else's life, words can't describe how that feels.

Leigh Morgan: 44:30

We're doing an audio recording, but for listeners, there's this beautiful smile on our zoom, environment here. I love that. And it is something when you know you've touched someone's life because it becomes reciprocal. They touch you and it kind of bolsters you to then do more when maybe it feels overwhelming.

Shelmina Abji: 44:48

Exactly. Exactly.

Leigh Morgan: 44:50

question, is you have a magic wand and whatever wish you have for listeners will come true. What is that one wish for? Listeners who, like yourself and for me, want to find ways to bridge divides and create stronger connections across, polarities across those divides that, our fragmenting society. What's that wish to bring us together?

Shelmina Abji: 45:21

Yeah. First and foremost, understand your own worth. Understand the impact that you can have on this world and show your worth in every interaction you get, you will become a role model for women you don't even know are watching you, and you will embolden them to also show up, to show their worth. if we all, if every listener here decides that we are going to show our worth, no matter what the circumstances, we are going to show up in our full glory, shining the brightest, energizing every room in which we are, and then intentionally bring other women along with us. Together, Lee, we will advance gender equality in leadership roles at every level, and then we won't have to fight these symptoms. We will. We handle this at the root cause. We will fix the root cause and we will be living in a different world. When you and I and all these other women who are listening will be present in every room where big decisions are made, we will be part of their decision making.

Leigh Morgan: 46:38

What a great way to end this podcast. Shelmina, thank you for your inspiring words for your life and what you're doing now and impacting so many people. In the show notes on the website, we'll have a link to where you can get the book. You can download the app, and Shamina is a much sought after speaker, so Finder Ted Talks and share this podcast because you've really dropped some inspiring wisdom today. Thank you for being on the Space in Between podcast.

Shelmina Abji: 47:09

Thank you for having me, and thank you for doing what you're doing and your sincere intention to make a difference in our world.

Leigh Morgan: 47:18

you are welcome. It's nice to have a partner in that journey. Have many partners that we have. All right. Thanks Mina.

Shelmina Abji: 47:25

Thank you, Lee.

47:29

I hope you. Enjoyed this episode of the space in between podcast. If. If you did, please hit the like button and leave a review. Wherever you listen to the show. And check out the space. Space in between.com website, where you can also leave me a message.