Faith, Values and Navigating Healthcare Challenges with Diankha Linear

If you want a clear, human view of America’s healthcare crossroads, this episode is for you. Swedish Health Services board chair Diankha Linear joins The Space In Between to unpack why the U.S. spends the most on care yet lags on health and well-being, what “value-based care” really means, and how this model can improve outcomes. We also explore how leaders can stay anchored in mission, navigate headwinds in a fast-shifting healthcare ecosystem, and deal with the impact of Medicaid budget cuts—which will ultimately raise costs for everyone. Diankha offers her take on how faith has sustained her fundamental belief in people, and shares some bright spots in healthcare and practical steps leaders, caregivers, and patients can take to improve outcomes, lower costs, and keep compassion and empathy at the center of care.

Transcript

0:01

Hello and welcome to the. Space in between podcast. I'm your host Lee Morgan. Again, this podcast is for listeners who are fed up. Up with the hyperpolarized nature of the world today. And who crave. Craves spaces where current events can be discussed in construct. enlightening and delightful ways. Let's get.

Leigh Morgan: 0:28

Today's show will be a great one. We are going to talk about healthcare. The US prides itself on being a hub of innovation in biomedical research, but our healthcare system does not share that reputation. It turns out that compared to other high income countries, we spend the most on healthcare per capita and as a share of GDP, but we perform the worst across a range of metrics including access, efficiency, equity, and good old health outcomes for our citizens. It is sad to say that if you want to have a baby, you are better off doing so in other countries like Canada, Australia, the uk, and this is especially the case if you are black, a person of color or indigenous. The recently approved federal budget will usher in dramatic cuts to Medicaid and the spread of debunked vaccine conspiracy theories being promoted from the administration do not bode well for an already underperforming healthcare system. Despite this, there are bright spots to build on, including recent efforts to implement what is called values-based care and AI-based tools that help diagnostic accuracy, drive efficiency and backend administrative tasks and help providers focus on patients and spend less time entering information onto a computer during doctor visits. I think we all know how that happens. And today we will talk about what's going well, what isn't, and what healthcare leaders are doing to study a wobbly ship and. Do so in an increasingly polarized and uncertain time. My guest today, Dianca Lanier is someone who inspires me deeply and she brings a broad business perspective to all of these issues and to the sector. She is the board chair at Swedish Health Systems, which is one of the Pacific Northwest largest healthcare providers and one of its best, and she plays a key role in helping that system navigate a very complex healthcare ecosystem. Well, I mentioned her broad business perspective and wow, what a career she's had. She was formerly CEO of Community Inc. An AI powered communication forum. She also has deep logistics expertise, having served in the military as an officer and she's had executive roles at Expeditors International of Washington and at Convoy. She serves on the Board of Lumen Technologies, and I'm very grateful for her service in the US Army Reserve, which I think is really, really cool. She was also an army lawyer and get this, she has jumped out of planes as a paratrooper. Dianca, I want stories about jumping outta planes, but we might not have time for today. I'm excited to welcome you to the Space in between podcast.

Diankha Linear: 3:42

Well, thank you very much for inviting me to the space in between., I feel like I spend a lot of time in this space in between, so this is perfect. I feel right at home., It's really great to be here.

Leigh Morgan: 3:54

I'm so glad to have you and, Thank you again just to acknowledge your service in the military. I am grateful for those who have signed up to serve our country. You and I met earlier this year, through an executive women's networking group that we're a part of, and right away I could tell your passion for improving our healthcare system and ensuring that those least able to access and afford quality care could could. So, where does that passion come from?

Diankha Linear: 4:25

Well, first of all, thank you for that amazing introduction. My passion, at its foundation really comes from life experiences. I've been gifted with so many personal experiences that have shaped all of my views. For example, in the early years of my childhood, we didn't have a lot. So today I am grateful for that because I absolutely know what it's like to. on government programs for medical and dental care. So beyond that, in addition to my life experiences, I don't know why or how, but spirituality and faith grew very early in my childhood. I would take the church bus by myself to Sunday school, and I just enjoyed being in a place where love and service to others was supposed to be at the center of everything. And at the same time, my parents, uh, speaking of the space in between, they really weren't churchgoers but they did instill in me a belief in justice, respect, and compassion for all people. In my family, it wasn't okay to think that you were more worthy of being happy or being yourself than any other person. So I think my, my passion just comes from my experiences growing up.

Leigh Morgan: 5:37

And where did you grow up? Was it Washington, DC area or

Diankha Linear: 5:41

up in Seattle, Washington. The other Washington.

Leigh Morgan: 5:44

other? Washington. So you're, you're, uh, you know, like me grew up right here in, the Pacific Northwest. I love that. And tell me a little bit more about, your mom and her encouragement of you.

Diankha Linear: 5:57

Oh, my mom, my mom's phenomenal. My mom was, the primary sort of provider. Uh, in early years I was growing up. My dad ultimately started a business, but the entrepreneurial route is rough. So my mom was a Seattle Housing Authority, administrator. She worked with people that were so lower income and had, some life challenges her entire career. She ultimately retired after 34 years at Seattle Housing Authority, and she managed all of the, elderly, senior housing complexes. And, she loved it. She loved it. So I grew up watching my mom in a role that was really focused on serving others, and selflessness.

Leigh Morgan: 6:41

I love that theme from your family, your parents. Then obviously that's been such a part of, of your work and I'm. Struck by the roles you've had in different sectors. We mentioned transportation and logistics and kind of the early AI powered communication forum at Community Inc. And in tech with your work with Lumen Technologies and, and then of course healthcare, which is the, sector that we will talk about today. And I think many people underestimate how valuable working in different sectors is in terms of developing pattern recognition, understanding market dynamics, and being able to work in different cultures. How is your experience in non-healthcare sectors helped you understand what's happening in healthcare and helped you in your leadership role at Swedish?

Diankha Linear: 7:38

Yeah. Um, thanks for asking Lee. My experience across a wide variety of, industries has really been a game changer for me. given me the ability to see challenges from different angles. It helps me to better look around corners. And as you mentioned, probably most importantly, the experiences help me quickly pattern match based on, my belief that at some level business. Is business, right? So for example, I've seen real estate challenges, right? Come up in pretty much each and every sector that I've worked in. I have a pretty diverse legal background, that's exposed me from everything to se, securities disclosures, to antitrust risk, to employment law and contract disputes. It's really given me the identity to, think about what typically happens a deal cycle or a

Leigh Morgan: 8:27

Mm.

Diankha Linear: 8:28

cycle or with people in, in organizations. And there are a lot of similar patterns as you mentioned. So it's it's given me a leg up.

Leigh Morgan: 8:38

tell me a little bit about what you learned in your military service around pattern recognition, because on the one hand, you were a paratrooper, you've, you were a lawyer in, the Army, and then you did all this logistics work. What is it about the work in the Army that's applicable to healthcare?

Diankha Linear: 8:57

Yeah. It's really, the military is all about people leadership. Right. And, and that, that's what all in every organization I learned very early on. I joined the Army when I was 18 years old and I was in until I was 34. It's all about people. And that's what I really learned. I mean, I learned some tangible skills like operational excellence, right. I learned a lot about taking care of your mind and your body. I learned a lot about, honestly just, humility and integrity, but above all, taking care of people, right? We used to say people first, mission always. And that's really what I learned from the military.

Leigh Morgan: 9:37

I love that. Taking care of people first. And so let's drop into the healthcare system. I wanna get your perspective on what's working well and what isn't. And we do spend a lot of money in the US on healthcare, but as I mentioned, we get the worst healthcare outcomes than the other high income countries. I mean, it's really astounding. It's been way for a long time, and I've been in the sector for decades. You've been working in the sector for so long and you've seen many efforts to make things better. One effort is called values-based care. And because you and I are super nerd, we actually had a. Very spirited conversation about this a couple months ago. Can you explain what values-based care is for listeners and what are your hopes for how that approach, if done well, can improve quality and lower the cost of care

Diankha Linear: 10:34

Absolutely. So values-based care is a model where healthcare providers are paid based on the quality of care they provide, not just the number of services they provide. it, it's all about rewarding for better outcomes, healthier patients, and smarter spending instead of being paid for doing more. The focus shifts from doing what works best for the patient.

Leigh Morgan: 10:59

I've heard this. For many decades now in a way that the word values-based care, and we used to think about as personalized medicine back in the day, and what is working well with efforts at Swedish or other health systems to actually do this.

Diankha Linear: 11:17

Yeah. What's working well is, um, this is interesting. The, the docs right and the nurses, this is what they really want. They wanna get back to providing right healthcare, for the sake of, of doing good for their patients. So what's working well is, I think culturally. Everyone is on board, right? We wanna deliver services, we wanna be able to spend more time with our patients, and we wanna look out for their outcomes. So that's really important because the environment is right to move to value-based care. I'll jump ahead and say, what's not working or what's going to be harder? And that is with so many distractions as particularly right now in healthcare, um, it's really hard to gain momentum in order to get the change done. For example, there's some challenges in implementing value-based, uh, value-based care. Number one being it's the way we've always done it, We inherited a very complex. fee for service, model right now. So basically you pay for every test. So the incentives are tests, visits, those are what we pay for. And unfortunately that comes along with a lot of heavy infrastructure around billing, and other aspects of fee for service. Therefore, It's a massive undertaking to completely switch to a values-based care model, particularly when you're dealing with some of the challenges and distractions we have financially today.

Leigh Morgan: 12:49

That's important thinking about financial incentives for values-based care to actually work because healthcare providers, as you articulated, really do wanna spend more time, walk in the room, spend less time typing into the computer and really thinking about how can I understand you and help health and wellness. Can you say more about what. Might be changing so that we can actually move from a fee for service to paying and rewarding physicians and health systems for the wellness and health outcomes and efficiency.

Diankha Linear: 13:30

Right. Well, Preventative care is probably one of the most important or key elements of values-based care. So making sure that we reward our providers for really encouraging people to preventatively address their care. Um, like, most people don't know that heart disease is the number one cause of death in the us. and guess what? Most cases of heart disease is completely preventable through the American diet, right?

Leigh Morgan: 14:02

Wow. Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 14:03

our, even our nutrition standards right, can change preventatively.

Leigh Morgan: 14:07

Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 14:07

uh, preventative care is probably, the most prominent change that I've seen. Um, people, and providers start to, to move towards. But once again, the challenge is when you're still being paid financially, rewarded for how many procedures test the count. It puts providers in a really tough position.

Leigh Morgan: 14:29

It really does. And then you mentioned that then that requires a backend administrative infrastructure

Diankha Linear: 14:36

Yes,

Leigh Morgan: 14:37

very sophisticated counters of the services.

Diankha Linear: 14:42

exactly.

Leigh Morgan: 14:42

then those folks have to interact with federal and state regulators who have payments associated with certain, uh, tests and services that are provided. And that, that's where the bureaucracy can get high. Now, it's not like people are doing this on a chalkboard, you know, we have computers, et cetera. It's just that it leads to a lot of. You know, how can we make as much money as we can. And then the health insurance companies wanna do the same and then people move around a lot. So it's very complicated. And since, since we're talking about financial incentives, I'd like to get your sense of the federal budget, which was recently passed. Just to table, set the table, if you will, since 2014, we've had a certain amount of money that the federal government will reimburse for services for Medicaid patients and Medicare patients and a whole range of, procedures and we'll pay this much and. That hasn't changed over, a decade, which is a problem because the cost of healthcare has gone up. But the reimbursement rates have remained the same. So that puts pressure on health systems like Swedish and others. And then the federal government passed, a bill that included massive, massive cuts to Medicaid beginning 2026. And for folks who don't know, Medicaid is a state and federal program that helps people with limited income and resources, access healthcare. Many experts agree that this will increase the uninsured by 10 to 20 million and we anticipate costs of healthcare to plans to go up everywhere. You're leading the board meetings at Swedish. What sense do you make of this and the impact? Should those least able to afford or access healthcare?

Diankha Linear: 16:40

I just wanna double down on everything you said and highlight that when we're talking about massive cuts. I understand it's very hard to follow at times, but we're talking about$911 billion of estimated Medicare cuts over the next decades.

Leigh Morgan: 16:56

Say that. 911.

Diankha Linear: 16:58

estimated$911 billion

Leigh Morgan: 17:01

Okay. Drink. Drink that in. Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 17:05

impact people. So I'll just start by saying I don't even know what it means to make sense of vulnerable people losing critical healthcare, I do know is that people who are already struggling to afford or access this care, um, this will cause serious challenges for many of those people. It'll be harder than ever for some of our most vulnerable populations to get necessary services and 10 to 20 million, not just a number, right? These are people, this is a really big deal. for me, I, I don't make sense of it, right? I can't make sense of it. Rather than make sense of it, I can only answer, a question with a question and say, is this really the kind of healthcare system we want? As you mentioned, there are ripple effects. People sometimes, miss the reality that when someone is uncovered they don't have the coverage, at some point they will still need to go to a hospital at some point. So that uncompensated care, that's gets paid for by increasing costs, right? For all of our health insurance plans. So, I'm not gonna be able to make sense of that, at all. It's just, uh, there'll be more safety nets and instead of this safety net, we'll have to switch to another safety net, which is not going to be as, stable as the one we already have.

Leigh Morgan: 18:36

Yeah, I think so many people do not get that there is a knock on effect of, you know, well, poor people, they'll figure it out. They'll, they'll figure it out. But we all get sick and going to an emergency room is the most expensive place to go to get services, any kind of healthcare support, and so is end of life care, So you have people who get sick, maybe sicker than they otherwise would be, showing up with more complicated health concerns. Uh, higher rates of mortality for folks who are uninsured. And whether it's University of Washington, UCLA, Swedish Health System, you're gonna say, well, I got more people or Unin uninsured. I need to raise my rates for the healthcare that I provide for anyone or else I'm literally not gonna be able to stay in business. And then the health insurance companies say, well, we want a piece of that. You're charging us more, so we need to charge our paying private pay customers more. Really, doesn't make sense to me

Diankha Linear: 19:46

right.

Leigh Morgan: 19:46

But one question for you. There is a legitimate, at least I believe, a legitimate debate about our healthcare system in general, We talked about highest costs. There's, a big infrastructure built around the provision of service-based, healthcare and, charging people for that. What do you say to critics? Who would say, the system needs to be reformed and we need a big, massive change and rip the bandaid off. So this is gonna force health systems to get their act together. How do you, respond to that?

Diankha Linear: 20:21

My answer is simple. We do need reform. We talked about values-based care models and all that. We do need reform. I'm just not interested in doing it on the backs of the most vulnerable people in our community. that's my answer. So, so yes, we do need to, but you, gotta do it right. My grandmother used to always say, it's, it's not, it's not what you do, it's how you do it. Um, and, and that's what I say.

Leigh Morgan: 20:48

I, fully support that. We don't wanna do this, do these changes on the backs of the folks who, who ha have the fewest resources.

Diankha Linear: 20:57

Exactly

Leigh Morgan: 20:58

a moral and ethical framework that you're bringing.

Diankha Linear: 21:02

right. That's right.

Leigh Morgan: 21:04

Yeah, it's

Diankha Linear: 21:05

Um.

Leigh Morgan: 21:07

a human one. And how do you think about health disparities, Dianca, I mentioned that healthcare outcomes for Americans tend to be lower than in other countries. This is particularly true and worse healthcare act outcomes. If you identify as black or a person of color or indigenous, how do you see Medicaid cuts impacting bipoc communities?

Diankha Linear: 21:36

Those folks historically have, have been amongst the most vulnerable people. It's going to hurt them tremendously. The saddest part for me is that we're seeing so much progress. I know at Swedish alone, we're seeing the mortality rates, For, for women of color and black women, start to really. Least match, right? Those of the wider population.

Leigh Morgan: 21:59

So it's going up, so it's getting better. You're seeing better outcomes. I love that.

Diankha Linear: 22:03

It's getting better. And unfortunately we're going to take steps like decades backwards, because we've seen, unless something in history changes, we've seen communities of color, like those are the folks who lose employment. Faster, right? The first last hired, first fired notion. And when you have also, I will say, some immigrant populations, we all know what's happening there. As a matter of fact, right, as early as next week, we're gonna see DACA students start to, recipients start to lose, their federal funding for healthcare. So those communities will be particularly hit, but I must say all of our communities, right, people from all across the spectrum, um, are gonna see, are gonna see a hit, if not with you, directly with a friend or a neighbor or someone else.

Leigh Morgan: 22:56

I, I think that's the sad reality. The one thing that I, that gives me hope is hearing about the outcomes that you described as Swedish, which I've seen also in other health centers there is progress being made and we know what practices help. And my fervent wish is that we will find novel ways to continue with those programs so that we continue to see movement of the dial, in, communities and populations that need the most help. And so another question for you is, in the leadership roles I've had, and with the work I do with my clients now and in, boardrooms, is that leaders are faced with increasingly hard decisions as it relates to taking public stands on issues related to health equity or pushing back on cuts to Medicaid. Talking about having a diverse workforce and how that drives better outcomes. It's just a tough time because you wanna do the right thing. But sometimes there can be consequences from the administration. How do you navigate this in your leadership roles and what advice do you have for anyone who is trying to hold firm to their convictions, but also find ways to bridge divides?

Diankha Linear: 24:19

Yeah. Well first of all, this is a really important question and, especially with what leaders are dealing with today. So thank you for giving me the opportunity to share my personal approach, and for me, it goes back to where my passion comes from, my faith. Which is rooted in a belief in caring for people, those in need and, respect for those folks. So, for me, what I do as a rule, I don't join organizations that have missions, visions, and leaders that are not aligned with my core values. And so if I were in a role where that was the case, I'd probably realign myself with organizations that share my, values. And it really is important for me to say that the leaders, right, demonstrate those values. Beyond that, that puts me in a position where I'm never framed the conversation right? With the team I'm working with, the leaders I'm working with as pushback or I need to push back. It really is about upholding the existing mission values that we already have. So it's Swedish. Our vision is health for a better world. can't argue for that. With

Leigh Morgan: 25:25

Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 25:26

our, our mission is to improve the healthcare and wellbeing for each person we serve. So when we,

Leigh Morgan: 25:32

Uh,

Diankha Linear: 25:33

about that, or, or I'm working within organizations, I'm already in a place where we're upholding, right? The values and missions and visions we already have. So my advice would be simply to realign yourself or, continue to align yourself with organizations whose missions and visions you believe in. And if you're taking a look at those and they seem aligned with what we should be doing in terms of the right thing, then speak up about that and our duty.

Leigh Morgan: 26:02

so staying aligned to your values and say more about the speaking up because it's just seems like it's an extra tricky time. Right. So you are values aligned in the organizations that you currently work with or on boards. And there's times when that's true. And there's also just a trickiness in the meta environment of do we make a public stand or not? And

Diankha Linear: 26:31

right,

Leigh Morgan: 26:32

this is, this is just tough. Anyone who thinks this is an easy time to lead, they have their head in the sand. I think it is possible to stay aligned to our values, but you can have one, two, or three different strategies, For how to, articulate that in public spaces. What have you learned about being in that pressure cooker?

Diankha Linear: 26:51

Yes. Yeah. What, what I've learned is, that I, I don't anchor, my strategy, to my personal views, right? In some ways now I have my personal views, but, in some instances, they're not really relevant to what we're talking about. But because for years we used to say, or I don't know if you did, but I used to think, you know, how really important is the vision and mission of an organization, right? You know, we spend all these hours fine tuning it. But now's the time. Lee, right now is the time where all that work. And if you did the work, and you really, your organization really believes in that mission and values. And I think a great strategy is going back to that vision and mission in saying this. This is why we're here. This is what we do. So when I speak to boards I always go back and say, Hey, we, this has already been determined. Our vision is health for a better world. So our action should be consistent with that. And our mission is to improve the health and wellbeing for each person we serve.

Leigh Morgan: 27:58

So your advice is to tether even more strongly to the vision and mission.

Diankha Linear: 28:06

exactly,

Leigh Morgan: 28:07

When, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I, I'm also sensing that as the, we have such a fractured

Diankha Linear: 28:14

yeah.

Leigh Morgan: 28:15

there's a lot of polarization. We know there's increasing distrust in business and leaders and government. We can measure that. We've talked about that on, the podcast. So amidst a lot of to and fro, it's important to root reroute and come back to the mission and vision so that when there's a hard. Decision to be made We say, here's our choice and here's how we see it related to our mission and vision

Diankha Linear: 28:45

exactly. And this is our duty

Leigh Morgan: 28:47

duty.

Diankha Linear: 28:48

our mission and vision instead of being in a defensive posture and feeling like you're pushing back you've done the work on the mission and vision. And I think most organizations have, particularly in healthcare,

Leigh Morgan: 29:00

Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 29:00

think it's a matter of just upholding what we've already established.

Leigh Morgan: 29:04

Yeah. I think that's so important, what you said of especially in healthcare, because healthcare is at its best, helping people be whole, be healthy, being taken care of, and so. That lends itself to a little more navel gazing around your vision

Diankha Linear: 29:19

Yeah.

Leigh Morgan: 29:20

your mission. And that's part of the reason I've been in healthcare for a long time. And you've used the word duty a few times and you've also spoken to your faith and spiritual practice. Can you say a little more about how that has kept you steady during times of change as a leader, the sense of duty and your reflective practice?

Diankha Linear: 29:48

I think from a faith perspective, my faith has given me the ability to believe in people. And, and trust, that while people have often disappointed me in ways that have shocked my conscience, I try not to give those thoughts too much airtime. And I ultimately have faith in people. And, and I know it sounds risky these days, but, but I do. And I think that's a gift of my faith. I've seen this Night Nation come together in the past. I've seen the nation come together in the past. And, it's had a profound effect on my faith in people. So, just like many of us know from our personal experiences, we get, we have very extreme lows in life. They feel insurmountable. and we want to give up. I think many people have felt that way, but if we stay the course and have the courage and faith to choose love and respect for all people, uh, visions like health for a better world

Leigh Morgan: 30:50

It's a powerful testament. And what was a moment when you experienced the nation coming together that stands out for you?

Diankha Linear: 30:58

Well, I remember just being younger and looking at like the, during the civil rights era, right? Those are the most vivid images and pictures and inspirations. It actually inspired me to initial be a lawyer. You know, I thought I'd be a civil rights lawyer. I did spend some time doing that, but I thought I'd be a civil rights lawyer forever because I was so moved by how the nation, came together. Now that didn't mean everybody wasn't on board, right? But we had that critical mass, and that's what I mean, with an impending healthcare crisis, right? With massive cuts on the way. I do know it's possible for people to come together and do the right thing.

Leigh Morgan: 31:38

Are you seeing sprouts of innovation yet? To anticipate and prepare for some of the negative consequences of the big cuts to Medicaid. I'm inspired to ask you this because there could be an opportunity in this time of much pressure and constraint in healthcare, you know, scenarios where we are able to come innovate and think of new ways because we just got to, like, it was challenging before, but right now we don't have any money. We literally have to innovate. Are, you seeing any seeds planted at Swedish or elsewhere that are helping us?

Diankha Linear: 32:26

I don't know of a healthcare organization that's not embracing. AI and technology, um, you know, in that space. I do believe it's happening. It's happening right now. In terms of empowering our providers, Our doc, our nurses, our organizations, and giving them more information so they can more easily, see more people. That time constraint we were talking about, that

Leigh Morgan: 32:49

Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 32:50

jobs really hard. Um, they're having to spend less time, right? Explaining to people whatnot. I can't say I've seen it in motion yet, but what I do expect to happen is that, people will begin ai, right? The average person, the patient will be able to circumvent sort of some of the red tape that they have to navigate now and actually start looking into their own. Like, you know, I'm, I'm a better advocate for myself. I can say with the inventive ai, I think most of us

Leigh Morgan: 33:23

Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 33:23

because now we can look up, ask questions, get

Leigh Morgan: 33:26

Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 33:27

and, and answers. So that's what comes to mind. But once again, our financial model isn't rewarding that right now, so it's going to to to be a little slower. And I do wonder and worry about some of the distractions that are going to come with Medicaid cuts.

Leigh Morgan: 33:45

I love that you've highlighted AI tools and you also mentioned there's a potential for agency for all of us to use some of those tools to, seek and access healthcare. And I'm thinking about COD times, right? That situation was catastrophic. And again, the folks with the least elderly were the most, adversely impacted, but during that hard time, we saw the rapid acceleration of telemedicine.

Diankha Linear: 34:19

right.

Leigh Morgan: 34:20

Which had been slowly cooking in the background, but all of a sudden scramble, scramble, scramble, and so many health systems, trained their doctors and built these Zoom platforms and figured out how to get patient consent and how to bill for that. And for many health conditions is really better than spending an hour or two going in to see a specialist. So that, that was an innovation during a really hard time. And you're inviting us to think about other innovations

Diankha Linear: 34:51

exactly

Leigh Morgan: 34:52

be AI driven as well.

Diankha Linear: 34:54

right. And combined with telehealth, like partnering, I think those together will definitely be, an option or a possibility serve.

Leigh Morgan: 35:06

I was on a panel. In the Seattle Tech Week for purpose-based, tech companies. And there was pac, there was like 130 folks and, we were discussing a Harvard Business Review article that did a meta study to look at the use of chat GPT or Claude or Gemini.

Diankha Linear: 35:27

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Morgan: 35:28

they, they'd done this last year and they did it this year and found that a average folks, I guess when we go onto chat, GPT, the top searches were fourth therapy and companionship this year. And that was like number, gosh, I, I can't think the actual ranking, but it was down like number 15 the year before, but it rocketed up. And there are some potential upsides to that, people are seeking out. Companionship. You know, you can go on chat GBT and actually talk to it. Now they're typing in and asking for advice. So it's risky, because we don't know what some of these tools are gonna say or tell people to do. But that strikes me as an example of more agency to try to help ourselves.

Diankha Linear: 36:12

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Morgan: 36:13

Shadow side is it seems like more people really wanna find meaning and purpose and get help. So that was interesting to me.

Diankha Linear: 36:21

Yeah. Yeah. I think when I think about, AI in the healthcare space, I think of the pros, which are, I, I liken it to the calculator in terms of pros, You know, uh, they're gonna help with AI, hope, with diagnostic accuracy, drive efficiency and backend administrative tasks, all that. And they have the potential to be the great equalizer in the sense of expanding access to information. People would be surprised if when you question, a provider about something, they'll often say, you know, they'll agree with you because you've gotten that information. The cons. However, I wanna also,

Leigh Morgan: 36:57

Yeah.

Diankha Linear: 36:57

that to social media.

Leigh Morgan: 36:59

Yes.

Diankha Linear: 37:00

right. That's the downside. The potential to exalt false or distorted narratives, Whi which could be disastrous in the healthcare space. So, I think on balance technology and AI is going to be a win, For healthcare. But I think we also have to be very careful about, falsehoods, when you get false information about a lot of things, um, it hurts people. But when you get false information about healthcare, you die. People die.

Leigh Morgan: 37:31

Yeah,

Diankha Linear: 37:31

It's a, it's a big deal.

Leigh Morgan: 37:33

it's a really big deal. We're so early in these tools and don't have a lot of experience about, about how to mitigate those negatives, which you have just mentioned. Before we close out, I, one question because you did introduce this topic or mentioned the topic of these falsehoods, you know, RFK, junior Heads, health and Human, services, and he is a very strong views about vaccines

Diankha Linear: 38:04

Mm-hmm.

Leigh Morgan: 38:05

and many in the scientific community. Folks like you. And I would agree that he is promoting, dangerous conspiracy theories, um, unproven statements about, vaccines. You know, he still continues to link autism to vaccines. That has absolutely been disproven. It's not true, but it lends this sense of skepticism that all vaccines are bad and. How do you think about that and how can we mitigate the spread of these false health claims?

Diankha Linear: 38:49

Yeah. Um, I guess my response is, first of all, I'm an extremely curious person, I'm always open to new theories and ideas, but I do need this work in healthcare to be proven by clinical research. I think we gotta put everything to the test and this is not the time to wing it without data. So, so for me it's, I'm happy to explore new theories. That's how you come up with sort of solutions and ideas. So I would be completely on board with testing it, but you gotta do the test, you gotta have the clinical research, like research backed decisions. That's what's going wrong with me. So, I'm not a fan of sort of making decisions, throwing out notions, based on rhetoric in healthcare versus on versus actual research and clinical research and data. Mm-hmm.

Leigh Morgan: 39:43

Thank you for that. Well, very. Wise words about how to, think about, information that's been put out. And then there's something about referencing research that has actually been debunked, right? Or discredited And you're inviting us to be curious to it all, which is partly why there's some things that are coming outta the administration that I am curious about and open to. And so let's, let's stay focused also on those potential upsides.

Diankha Linear: 40:14

Yes,

Leigh Morgan: 40:14

Speaking of which, during these trying times, and, it's not all trying times. There's lots of bright spots as many of which you've mentioned today. I'm curious what bolsters you personally, what inspires you the most or gives you hope that we will continue to make things better in healthcare or just in bridging the divides that keep us apart.

Diankha Linear: 40:42

probably for me it's watching people, who have the courage. To continuously, speak out and say, this doesn't make sense. Or, like you just said, looking at people and, seeing that they, understand that what's, happening with healthcare isn't right. they truly don't want to lose the progress we made, and they don't wanna lose that. And I believe that is true for the vast majority of providers in this nation. So I'm encouraged,, especially through Swedish. I'm just encouraged by all of the providers, and caregivers, in particular, and their passion for care and giving. And also by the progress we've made to date. So, so that's what, that's what I would say.

Leigh Morgan: 41:33

I like that courage. The courage of others bolsters you to help turn the tide when things aren't going well, but also just noticing with pride. What is going well and you, and I both get to see this, the healthcare providers and all the staff and the team that support that. There is a real passion for doing what's right and improving the lives and livelihoods of, patients and really the community.'cause I know Swedish is very involved as all the health systems here in Seattle and I would say that's true really all over the country. So thank you. It's inspiring and bolsters me to hear you say that. And

Diankha Linear: 42:10

you.

Leigh Morgan: 42:11

yeah. And I have one last question. I ask this of all guests. I'm a big fan of Lord of the Rings, so I look, think about Gandalf and he has that staff, right? Then I, I really want that staff myself. But pretend you had a magic wand or Bianca's staff and any wish you had for listeners would come true. What is that one wish?

Diankha Linear: 42:35

First of all, I love this question. I've heard it, it. Um, but I wanna say, and you introduced magic. I own the whole set of lord of the ring. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna do a little, I'm gonna go science fantasy for a minute

Leigh Morgan: 42:49

Hey, you got the whole stage my friend.

Diankha Linear: 42:52

Exactly. I wish that for maybe about a month, listeners would be given a crystal ball to share with the entire nation. this crystal ball would show the nation the terrible pain and pointless damage. A lack of access to quality healthcare will have on our most vulnerable people, the elderly, those with life-threatening diseases, those with mental health challenges and our beautiful children. The crystal ball would also have the power to show that the lack of access to healthcare will eventually hurt the entire community, including people in our personal circles, right? So it would show you a family member, a dear friend, or their child, a trusted neighbor, a colleague, or someone else, who we care about. So people could see themselves, and not think what we're experiencing as something that doesn't affect them. You know, everyone in the event that any one of us that unexpectedly lose a job and we're unable to secure the requisite work hours to qualify for Medicaid, that's what I would want. So maybe in a nutshell, a simpler way would be the ability for our listeners to, share the empathy that I know they have for others with the world.

Leigh Morgan: 44:11

This notion of empathy is a thematic that has cut across literally all of the episodes and how important it is for all of us to be able to relate to other people, and through your wish, through this crystal ball of for all of us to be able to have a greater sense of awareness

Diankha Linear: 44:33

Right,

Leigh Morgan: 44:33

how the the cuts to Medicare, it might not impact. Those of us who can afford or access healthcare today.

Diankha Linear: 44:42

right.

Leigh Morgan: 44:43

to be able to really look in and understand there's a knock on effect and it actually does impact all of us.

Diankha Linear: 44:48

Exactly. That's exactly right.

Leigh Morgan: 44:51

So thank you for that invitation. And what I know is that the things that you have shared today helps all of us see those parts and actually have a little crystal ball today. So thank you for sharing your comments about leadership and your duty based and values based work and leadership and how you walk in the world. I know that I feel that,'cause I get to see you in person, not just virtually, and also for the ways that you've invited us to not forget the bright spots, that there are bright spots that are happening, even amidst a lot of constraints in the system. And so I'm bolstered by that. I know our listeners will thoroughly enjoy this conversation Thanks so much for joining me today on the Space in Between podcast.

Diankha Linear: 45:37

It is been an honor. Thank you for allowing me to talk about healthcare and values and faith. I appreciate it.

Leigh Morgan: 45:45

You are most welcome. Bye for now.

Diankha Linear: 45:47

Bye bye.

45:51

I hope you. Enjoyed this episode of the space in between podcast. If. If you did, please hit the like button and leave a review. Wherever you listen to the show. And check out the space. Space in between.com website, where you can also leave me a message.